Get Schooled

By JustMe

May 3, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

The problem here is that college budgets are not monitored by the Board of Regents. Colleges are spending money on stupid and frivolous things to draw more applicants and to increase enrollment.

Take GA State as an example. They have built this rather large and fancy health club type facility in the middle of Atlanta to include rock climbing walls, tons of life cycles, etc. And, they want to continue expanding these amenities for their students. Rather than going for an education, it is as if the students are going for a spa-like experience.

And of course, with new amentities they have to pay for more staff thus increasing cost even more.

GA State is just one example, but this is happening everywhere.

By jim d

May 3, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Very predicatable!

Along with HOPE comes the costs associated with attempting to educate the uneducatable. And yes Mr Bush, contrary to your belief that all students can learn, they do exist.

By catlady

May 3, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

Actually, the taxpayers of the state heavily subsidize the tuition for students at Georgia’s public colleges. Students pay only a small percentage of the costs to “put on” the classes. Out of state tuition is more closely the actual cost of the classes (which is about $18,000 per year at UGA, for example). If Georiga students (or HOPE) pay $5,000 per year, but the cost is closer to $18,000, students are already getting quite a deal from Georgia taxpayers. So, actually, that figure for Oglethorpe sounds pretty good.

By mmm

May 3, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

State School are an extremely good deal. Have you looked at the cost of private primary or secondary schools, or even daycare for a year?

By OldSchool

May 3, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

My first year (1968) at Georgia Southern was paid for by a $1000 State Teacher’s Scholarship. My first teaching job (1972-73) paid $6000 a year. Fortunately, I make a bit more than that AND have a great education to boot.

Time passes and the cost of living goes up. I know that even the current costs for attending Georgia colleges and universities is expensive but there are ways to finance the costs. What about attending a technical college and gaining the skills to get and hold a meaningful job and then go to a 4 year college for that degree. Often employers will help with tuition for valued employees.

Otherwise, just suck it up and get as much bang for your buck as you can. And leave the partying to someone else.

By Cosmo

May 3, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

When I was in college in the late 80’s and early 90’s there weren’t as many scholarship and loan opportunities as there are now - I paid for my own education. State schools are still a bargain (especially in GA with HOPE) compared to private institutions as has already been mentioned.

Since a GA resident can pretty much get a free ride at a public college if they graduate HS with a 3.0 GPA and can maintain a B average in college so this shouldn’t really be an issue - I went to middle school and 1st year of HS in the mid West and believe me GA schools are easy compared to some states. Anyone should be able to maintain a B average if they apply themselves in class and not think of college as just one big party……

By Mom of a Senior

May 3, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

My own mother has given me so much grief over the last year about my son applying out-of-state “when he can get free tuition at UGA.” I kept telling her that “free” was relative, and that one still had to pay for room and board. He ended up with a full ride at at one of the “new Ivies”, including room, board, books and a laptop.

Just keep the grades top-notch and work on your test-taking skills and your choices become much wider, and you don’t have to worry about increases in tuition at second, third and fourth-tier schools.

By thomas

May 3, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

It’s a backbreaker. Every year these dogs raise tuition 10, 15 percent. It is pure ridiculous. If it wasn’t for the fact that people use the college experience as some kind of credential for the workforce, these colleges could NEVVVVEEEER get away with charging these insane amounts of money for the “education” they provide.

Personally I think we need a civil service system for positions of employment. Put an end to the “good ole boy”, “it’s not whatcha know, it’s who you know” and “how cute or sexy you are” method for hiring and promoting people. This is includes the school system as well. This is why we have some many incompetent people in education and industry now.

College is overrated. I can honestly say that I didn’t learn s__ in college that was useful for being a school teacher. All of my relevant learning came through my own studies after college and life experience.

By jim d

May 3, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

“I didn’t learn s__ in college that was useful for being a school teacher.”

Now thats some scary scat if Thomas is teaching!!

By Mom of a Senior

May 3, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

Thomas, you get out of education what you put into it. If you didn’t get anything out of college, that isn’t the college’s fault.

By catlady

May 3, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

Not jumping into Thomas’ discussion, but I think he is saying that his teacher prep program didn’t prep him. I think I had an unusually good prep (thrown into schools my second quarter of college), had a course and practicum in everything but buttwiping, but I have learned tons more by teaching, and I learn more every year. By the time I retire (anytime now) I will know what I am doing!

By JustMe

May 3, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

Different colleges have varying levels of “good” degrees. Thomas may have attended a college that simply didn’t offer good courses that lead to an education degree.

The varying levels of “good” degrees is the same for all degrees across all colleges. Why should the education degree be any different?

By Maria

May 3, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Back in 1998, I was accepted to several fancypants universities in other states. I must have just squeaked by the admissions committees, as my financial aid packages were nothing to speak of; they mostly suggested that I take out nearly $30,000 worth of loans. No thanks.

So I did just what I promised myself I wouldn’t do and went to UGA on the HOPE Scholarship. I was there just as the Honors Program was expanding and really coming into its own. They started a great new program for undergraduate research, moved into a beautiful, renovated building on North Campus, and became quite successful at recruiting superior students from the Southeast. During my senior year, I was an Honors Program mentor for incoming freshmen. Just in my small mentoring group (12 freshmen, I think?), I had several National Merit Scholars and 2 students who had perfect SAT scores. Two of those freshmen wound up with Fulbright Scholarships, and another became a Goldwater Scholar. Sheesh!

UGA’s a steal, especially if you’re able to take their Honors courses and study with the best students on campus. I became a better reader, a better thinker, a more sympathetic person… and isn’t that what college really should be for? And as somebody who went for liberal arts degrees, I’m especially pleased that I was able to graduate from college with no student loan debt. I have several friends who’ll be paying off school when they’re nearing retirement age.

Honestly, once you get past the interviews for your first “real job” after college, most employers don’t care about whether you went to a brand-name school or not, particularly if your degree was one of those amorphous ones that doesn’t dictate a specific career path. English BA and Psychology BS (my degrees) from UGA with no loans, or English BA and Psychology BS from NYU / Williams / Amherst / Et Cetera with a mound of loans? Is there even a debate?

By Paul D

May 3, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

Mom of a Senior:

Are you prepared for higher education costs at the “new Ivy” when it reduces your student’s institutional aid?

catlady:

I agree that this is likely what Thomas meant since teacher education programs are notoriously inadequate.

Overall, this relative large increase is going to be the norm. The BOR and institutions can predict their needs four years out, but they can’t predict higher energy and health care costs or recessions. If tuition income is not adequate and is inflexible (as it is now with the “Fixed for Four” program), then the only option HE will have to respond to the environment is to increase enrollment (which will happen primarily at institutions already operating at or above capacity) or reduce teaching (at least at research institutions). Why reduce teaching? In some areas, faculty sizes cannot accommodate student demand, so adjunct or graduate student teaching augments courses taught by tenure/tenure-track faculty. These funding is usually “extra” and therefore easiest to return to the provost/financial office.

The more this legislature tries to dictate tuition (or really any HE policy) the more problems it’s going to cause. (Just like everything else, really). Want to blame someone? Blame the legislature.

By thomas

May 3, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

For those people who don’t understand, here’s the deal- Most teacher education programs do not provide their graduates with the necessary skills and tools to be sucessful in the AVERAGE American school. Teacher ed programs indoctrinate their students with liberal fluff and high falutin’, gimmicky “progressive pedagogical theories.” These theories, such as *whole language, new math, invented spelling, cooperative learning, balanced literacy, “be friends with the kids”, no desks in rows- only clusters, and hundreds of other silly ideas that CRUSH new teachers.

I know from personal experience of MANY, MANY, MANY teachers who have failed in the classroom— many times through no fault of their own. To make a very long story short- I had to learn how to effectively teach reading through staff development courses and through practice and trial and error. This is no joke. I had to learn how to teach each subject the same way. The college I attended never taught us any of that. Only lots of academic content, extra meaningless work, and time wasting “observations” at local schools.

The only thing I really learned through the college/student teaching experience was the importance of an good classroom management plan. I learned that as a student teacher struggling in a urban middle school. I had a heads up on how demonic students and parents could be, so when I got in the classroom, I had razor blades for teeth. Other than that, everything meaningful I know now— the things that make me a GOOD teacher— came AFTER I left college.

By KA

May 4, 2007 8:11 AM | Link to this

Bridget, What were you implying in your intro calling GT, UGA and others “so-called research institutions?” Are you unaware of what a research institute is, or were your snide comments meant to question their worthiness?

By jim d

May 4, 2007 8:15 AM | Link to this

Thomas,

Thanks for clearing that up. Let me just say, that from your comments, it appears you actually did learn one thing in college that has aided your teaching career. You learned “how not to teach”. Which I’d guess is one thing that a teacher would find most helpful in fulfilling their desire to become a good educator.

Thanks for what you do man.

By KA

May 4, 2007 8:22 AM | Link to this

GT and UGA are both bargains compared to many private and other states’ tuitions. My GT daughter did an internship with Boeing last summer in Seattle. There were engineering interns from public and private colleges all over the country, and she was shocked to discover that her education per year costs were $5,000-$30,000 LESS than every other school. She came back to Georgia with a n appreciation for her top notch education at a bargain price.

By Lee

May 4, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this

A few observations:

• Ga public colleges are among the best values in higher education. Anywhere. Period.

• When my oldest went to UGA, we paid about $6000 out of pocket per year. HOPE paid for all her tuition, we basically had to pay for her dorm, meal ticket, and incidentals.

• If you live near one of the state colleges and don’t have living expenses, your annual cost is almost $0.

• That said, I wonder how much of the recent tuition increases are due to the colleges having to handle the influx of students who “go try college for a year because HOPE pays for everything,” only to drop out after the first year?

• Regarding Thomas’ post, a Bachelor’s degree only provides the most basic fundamentals. Here is where education differs from the corporate world. When I hire a new accountant just out of college, I put them on a team with more experienced accountants and gradually give them more responsibility over time. It takes about 5-6 years before they are competent enough to be considered a Senior Accountant. Years ago, when my wife was a first year teacher, she was thrown into a scavenged classroom devoid of all usable supplies and assigned students that the other teachers didn’t want. Talk about setting someone up to fail. That is a fairly common practice in the schools in our area.

• Regarding Thomas’ post, part 2. To paraphrase Mark Twain, “When I was a young man of 18, I was in awe of those college professors with their Phd’s. Twelve years later, when I went back for my MBA, I realized just how full of crap they really were.”

By Hick from the sticks

May 4, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this

Thomas—

I concur. Many of the undergraduate programs do a high disservice to the majority of the new blood being pumped in to our schools. I have seen first hand at least five to seven student teachers pass through the halls with this gaze of both outright trepidation as well as humiliation at the end of the day as they are simply unprepared to know anything about classroom management.

Much like yourself, mine was trial by both error and fire my first year. I cut my teeth in South Atlanta high schools for seven years, and I would never give that experience up. It showed me exactly what was needed, what wasn’t necesary, and what hills I wished to die on.

Whenever I have student observers, it’s much too humorous for words. They either leave thinking I’m some type of sadistic dictator, or (as one fellow put it): “exactly the shot in the arm that education needs”.

I must disagree with you on one part of a previous post however.

I’m dead sexy, and have yet to recieve a promotion because of it.

I’m also cute, too.

By high school teacher

May 4, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Many education programs in college are lacking because you really can’t teach someone how to teach. You can provide methodology and lesson plans, but you can’t teach someone how to connect with kids; either you can or you can’t.

As for the warm fuzzy teaching methods, unfortunately, that’s what you will be evaluated on when you do start teaching. At my school, we have “walk through” evaluations. We better have a word wall up somewhere, and the essential question must be posted in a clear place. Those inspirational posters with slogans such as “What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular,” are now considered as “fluff” and therefore unnecessary on the walls (this is thanks to Max Thompson). Make sure to have group work often, which requires the desks to be grouped together. If you don’t teach like this, then you must be a bad teacher.

By KA

May 4, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Check our Georgia Tech’s College of Engineering rankings, nationally ranked in the top 10, and then compare GT’s tuition with the other universities in the top ten.

http://www.coe.gatech.edu/feature/rankings2007.php

By thomas

May 4, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this

High school teacher is right. Sadly much of education is fad driven. Some idiot administrators hear about latest fad and it is mandated that all teachers do it.

What is even more sad is what is done to many first year teachers. What happened to Lee’s wife is standard operating procedure. If you are a new teacher expect this- Unless you are cute, you are going to get the scraped together bits of low achievers, behavior problems, and rejects. You will be assigned a lousy classroom that was stripped down to the walls by the previous teacher (if he or she is still teaching again) or gutted by canibals (if the teacher was retiring, she gave all the stuff or let dogs have the run of the room). Anything of value (INCLUDING TE’s and other classroom resources) is gone.

Sad but true.

By Gene

May 9, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

A lot of unintended consequences with HOPE … I am not by any means against it but it needs some work …

The first is total unrestrained spending … knowing HOPE will be the savor. We will have to “maintain” the new physical structures … and pay the salaries of the folks working in them.

It evelates/escalates ALL tuitions throughout the southeastern states.

Kids that don’t want to really go (and can afford it) are forced to go in state.

Alumni will not be as loyal.

There is more …