Get Schooled

By KA

May 2, 2007 8:25 AM | Link to this

If the company is private then how much if any state oversight would there be? I hope none. The good thing about the rise of private education would be the dethroning of politically and PC motivated school superintendents and their overpaid administrative minions. I don’t see any difference between a private co. running a school and a church run school. They both have their own business costs to cover in operating their schools, their own curriculum and policies. I don’t see any danger in allowing more choices. And if students could use vouchers, then I am all for it.

By V for Vendetta

May 2, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this

I say YES. The system we have now is failing, what’s the harm in trying something different? I mean, what could possibly happen? We might sink lower in the national rankings! Oh, wait … .

By JustMe

May 2, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

These schools will still have to adhere to NCLB and make AYP - so the garbage that the public schools deal with will remain.

All this means IMHO is that that highly paid school administrator’s money is shifted to the private company. How does this really help education? There will still be students that don’t want to learn. There will still be parents that cannot parent.

IMHO, the main thing we can do in the State of GA is to require a parenting class to teach high school students how to be a “good” parent. This does not mean how to change diapers but rather how to teach ethics, morals, manners, life goals, etc. (I do not mean for the class to teach specific ethics, morals), how to discipline properly (ever watch SuperNanny?), signs to look for when your child is on drugs, and so on.

There is an ever increasing number of people having kids that have no clue how to parent, that that is the main thing affecting education, today.

By JustMe

May 2, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

Actually, as a teacher, if the private company would simply hire good teachers and let us teach the best we can for the students we have, I am all for it!

Current administrators are continuously invading our classrooms and forcing us to teach a cookie-cutter way (see Direct Instruction or High Schools That Work) that does not help the student at all. Basically, they are discarding the valuable experience and knowledge of the teacher in the classroom.

If a private company can reverse that trend, I say “great!”

By Stacey

May 2, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Although I haven’t given up on the public school system (yet), I would be willing to try one of these schools.

By OldSchool

May 2, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this

JustMe, you are singing the same song I’ve warbled for years. We’ve lost some of the basic skills that were the foundation upon which education was built: parenting, personal ethics and responsibility, altruism, honesty, and just plain kindness.

I’ve about had it with “teaching method du jour” approaches. I’m NOT Harry Wong and I’m NOT Max Thompson. I’ve also lost some of my spark because I’ve been force to be someone else in my teaching methods.

I’d welcome a massive change if only because I know I can bail (retire) at any given moment.

By teacher4

May 2, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

Just another private school it looks like to me. It will be the same old thing. They will come in without all the same rules. Choose the students they want. Get rid of the students they cannot succeed with and then show all kinds of statistics that make them look like they have done something the public school system could not. Give them a district (and not the best area in town) and make them take all the students with the same rules and regulations as public schools and lets see how they do.

By ECLB

May 2, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

As the parent of a child at an Imagine Charter School, I deplore the lack of true accountability that the privately-run public charter schools have. With a true private school, you pay a large sum of money, and in most cases, you get what you pay for. If you don’t like the curriculum, teachers, administration, you simply take your money elsewhere. With the charter schools, they appeal to people who are unhappy with their current public school who feel that the system is too big for them to make a difference, or to those whose geography places them in a school district with schools that don’t make NCLB or AYP. Uniforms, emphasis on slightly smaller class sizes, the requirements that parents be involved and volunteer, and strong character ed. make the schools sound like a dream. Unfortunately, that is not the reality at all of the schools. While the Marietta charter school hasn’t been in existence long enough to have a track record, the Kennesaw charter school has. Just look at their ITBS scores since the school has opened. (Avail. at CCSD’s website) Every year they have dropped. Perhaps if they were required to hire certified teachers the scores might be increasing instead. What started out to be a true alternative to the Cobb County schools with a strong curriculum has degraded to a mediocre school with test scores barely above the county average. They are like any other public school that has to accept any child that applies, regardless of socio-economic background, or ability level (definitely NOT like a private school). At this point, they are not vastly different from the county schools, and unless they improve drastically by next year, I’d be leery of letting Imagine open another school.

By nel

May 2, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

As a parent of children who attended an Elementary Theme School, I see first hand who well this concept works every day. Instead of tryinig to reinvent the wheel, we need to expand this into middle and high schools. We don’t need to rally the troops because the parents choose to have their children in this environment so they (the vast majority that is) do whatever is necessary for success. Not shabby for an idea that came about to relieve overcrowding. Public schools can and do work people. Also, it still comes down to how much your school administration buys into the concept.

By jim d

May 2, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

I fear a few here may not fully understand the charter concept.

Charter schools are public schools of choice, chosen by teachers and students.

They have an advantage of enjoying freedom from many regulations that apply to traditional public schools. Generally, these schools give more authority to teachers and students to make decisions.

Instead of being accountable for compliance with rules and regulations, they are accountable for academic results and for upholding their charter.

This freedom has given Charter Schools certain advantages. They have independence to try new forms of teaching, experiment and find the best way to reach their students; they avoid a myriad of challenging government regulations and the interference of state officials etc.

However, there are some disadvantages too owing to this freedom. Charter schools treat education as a product; they may not help all students as admission requirements, transportation costs, and limited information can prevent disadvantaged students from attending a charter school.

If you are interested in attending a charter school, remember, you have the choice to do so. Your future of attending a charter school rests solely in your hands. Do your research and if you decide you want to try it, get your children enrolled.

To get information on the Charter schools one can go through National Charter School Directory published by the Center for Education Reform. The directory provides contact information and profiles of charter schools in operation nationwide. Besides, it gives information on schools such as arts-based, core knowledge and Montessori schools.

By WFC

May 2, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

Just another shell game. I’ve watched public schools erode now for over 30years (I’ve just retired from teaching.) The #1 reason? The education leaders have almost NO experience in the real world of academic teaching (English, math, science, history.) I wish that someone (maybe I’ll do it myself) would do a study of the intellectual background of our educational “leaders.” They might as well be managing K-Marts. I kid you not.

By JustMe

May 2, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

WFC…..

I tend to agree with your assessment on our educational ‘leaders.’ Of the 8 administrators that I know personally, only 2 have classroom teaching experience in an academic subject. The others taught PE, art, or other non-academic subject. And, by the way, the 2 that do come from an academic background are excellent administrators by any measure.

By Ernest

May 2, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

At the end of the day, measurable results must be provided. The market will determine if a privately run school will succeed. It does provide another choice option thus I’m in favor of giving something else a try.

I think most on the blog will agree, the ‘silver bullet’ is parental involvement. IMO, that is what made the traditional Theme schools successful, the parental contracts for involvement. Unfortunately, some theme schools are experiencing parents that ‘say’ they will volunteer then not. Per the rules, those children should be removed from the program. How do you enforce this in a public school?

By high school teacher

May 2, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Theme schools successful, the parental contracts for involvement. Unfortunately, some theme schools are experiencing parents that ‘say’ they will volunteer then not. Per the rules, those children should be removed from the program. How do you enforce this in a public school?

I can’t even get some parents to answer the phone when I call. I have called some parents who have put a call block on the school number. I called from my home number. When I called the second time from home, my number was blocked as well!

The government can’t even get some parents to pay child support; there is no way to enforece a parent involvement requirement.

By jim d

May 2, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Gee imagine that.

Then imagine a teacher or administrator that refuses to respond to parents.

It is a 2 way street, friends.

And as for a “silver bullet Ernest?

There is none. What is required is what is required. Each student, each teacher, each parent and each administrator are what can make it all work. It must be a team effort or it’s doomed to fail.

By JustMe

May 2, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

jim d-

I respectfully disagree. A student with good parents and parental support can get a good education with poor teachers. Those types of parents will supplement their childs education to ensure that they are learning the content.

However, good teachers cannot make up for bad parents. There is nothing teachers could or should do to “fix” that.

Therefore, parents are the key element, IMHO.

Of course, all of the elements that you mention are important. But, the most vital one is parents.

By jim d

May 2, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

Just me,

And I respectfully disagree.

A poor teacher can destroy any love of learning a student may have regardless of how involved the parents. Each element is key and dependant upon the other.

By catlady

May 2, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

WFC, if they worked in Kmart it would go out of business!

By catlady

May 2, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

A key difference between poor parents and poor teachers—a kid suffers with a poor teacher for 9 months. He suffers with poor parenting for 18 YEARS.

By jim d

May 2, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

Cat,

I hate to disagree but a child may suffer from either for a lifetime.

By mmm

May 2, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

Ultimately it is that boundary between the child and the world that must change in a major way if the educational outcome is to be different in a major way. An EMO is just another set of administrators if the quality of teaching, time spent teaching, what is taught or the expectations of those being taught do not change.

Not all charters are run by EMOs. I really am not attracted to someone who says that they can make a profit and still give the children more with no effort from the parents or children. I don’t believe it.

On the other hand, there are unchallenged beliefs in education, and someone with a vision and mission that challenges those beliefs may occationally be right. Chartering is an appropriate way to test some of these proposed innovations because the parent is being asked, not compelled, to join in that vision. I don’t particularly want EMOs to be seen as the only thing that might be in chartering because they are the 200# gorilla.

By jim d

May 2, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

indeed, but they are a 200# gorilla that is placing teachers and studnets that want to be in that school together.

That may make for a good mix.

By catlady

May 2, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this

Jim d, I am glad to hear your disagreement. Seems like to me poor parenting can lead to a lifetime of troubles many, many times. A poor teacher MAY lead to a lifetime of troubles (My oldest had a degrading, nasty teacher in 5th who terrified her of math, for instance. Just killed her sense of self-confidence in that area and she has never recovered, so I do know what you mean). I guess I have seen more kids rise above a poor teacher than above poor parenting. Just my experience, however.

About our blog topic: perhaps we in public ed should just throw in the towel—give out vouchers for private ed and welcome in private companies (we all see how well “managed care” works, right?), and consign public schools to serve those whose parents are either 1) crazy-optimistic former hippies or 2) don’t care enough or are too impaired to use vouchers or schools run by for-profit companies. Just make it cut and dried—parents that care send their kids here or here, and everyone else goes to public school and tries to survive till they graduate or drop out. A little cream might rise to the top in public schools. You know, survival of the fittest sort of thing. Maybe we should just quit pretending we can do it all. ‘Cause the more that the involved parents opt out, the worse the schools get for everyone. It is like the old adage that says that the way to calm the male of the species down is to get him a good wife. He will be steadied by her, made to be a responsible citizen, etc. BUT eventually you run out of civilizing women. It is not a function of economic class, because there are uninvolved, neglectful wealthy parents, but they can hire nannies (and pay private schools) to keep up with child-related stuff for them. So what many public schools are left with is parents who are so drug-impaired, or self-involved, or poor-prioritied, or low IQ, or lazy that the kids have little training or guidance. And heaven help the school if they try to instill discipline and responsibility!

Sorry, I guess it has been a bad day.

By mmm

May 2, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this

Jim, One must always ask “better than what?” before ruling out anything. I didn’t say that they shouldn’t be allowed. I just don’t want us to stop there.

Those who know private schools up close will tell you that that grass looks greener than it actually feels when you are rolling in it.

By Lisa B.

May 2, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

I get a bit nervous when educating children become a for-profit business. I’ve been watching the Edison company for years. I read many articles about the mess Edison made of the Chester Upland schools in Pennsylvania. To save money, Edison fired all the para-professionals, closed the alternative school, and hired inexperienced, sometimes uncertified teachers. To recoup the losses from the increased expenditure on law enforcement officers, school lunchroom personnel were laid off. Students were required to bring their own lunches. Well, you can imagine how that turned out. Smaller, less aggressive kids had their sack lunches stolen, because those big, mean kids were not going to sit there hungry all day just because they brought nothing.

By jim d

May 3, 2007 8:24 AM | Link to this

Cat, mmm & Lisa,

Oh dear, throw in the towel? You make this sound like a fight. Not exactly the way I would view it.

My concerns are strictly for the children. Teachers will survive; y’all are intelligent and resilient, so I really have no concerns for teachers in this conversation.

Public Education will also survive. Consider the fact the vast majority of parents when surveyed indicate they are quite pleased with the schools their children attend. I can’t imagine these folks bailing out of a traditional public school. What the charter proposal offers is an option, Whom do you feel will opt for a charter, those that are content with the current methods or those that aren’t?

Common sense indicates that it will be the latter. That being said let’s explore whom those people may be. Will that be the parents of students that are well behaved and pulling down all A’s and B’s, who are actively participating in many of the extracurricular activities offered by the regular public schools? I rather doubt it.

So taking what may be a rather optimistic view of charters, I’d say they won’t be skimming the cream but rather leaving the cream and I fail to see how this would adversely affect our traditional public schools. To the contrary, I see this as strengthening them, eliminating many of the problems that dedicated caring teachers have to deal with on a daily basis that deter from them doing what they do best—teaching!

What I really have a problem understanding, and hope you will help me with, is why teachers feel threatened? I kind of look at this as being an amicable divorce and really don’t understand how anyone could still want someone that no longer wants them. Why not separate and allow each other to go their own way?

Private schools and the grass looking greener? I am quite aware of how green that grass is. We opted to go that route for a few years and I highly recommend that route for those that can afford it, especially during the middle school years as we did. The benefits are tremendous during that stage of a child’s life. (jmho)

Cutting costs to stimulate profits? Yes indeed it might happen. But then consider if parents would tolerate cuts that would detract from their child’s education? Again I think not. Parents of children that opt for a charter are showing some involvement or they wouldn’t be there. I believe that involvement will prove to be a determining factor in the success of a charter. Will some charters fail? Absolutely, but that failure will be due to parents dissatisfaction.

Bottom line: I believe traditional education will survive. Nay, even thrive and improve with competition

By JustMe

May 3, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

jim d-

I will attempt to answer your question about why teachers feel the way (most) of us feel…

The reason is because teachers are always blamed - for everything.

We are blamed when students don’t pass. For example, the student may sleep every day in class in spite of our best efforts to wake him. We call the parents for help and parents either don’t do anything, don’t return our calls, or worse. We try to get help from administration and all they tell us is that it is our responsibility.

We are blamed when students misbehave, that it must be our “classroom management” skills that are lacking. For example, the student may come to school with a bad attitude and picks fights with fellow students or worse, but it is our fault. We try to get help from parents and they will see nothing wrong with their ‘angle’. We try to get help from administration and they again tell us it is our responsibility.

No matter what happens, no matter the event or the result, it is always the teachers fault. So then yes, we are very sensitive to these issues.

If we could get parental support and help it would make a difference. If Ms. Smith would simply talk to her son about his behavior in school it would help. If Mr. Jones would simply talk to his daughter about possibly openning a textbook at home to do homework it would help. But if these parents don’t, it is the teachers fault.

If we could get administrative support it would help. When we have had enough of little Johnny misbehaving and have tried every trick in the book to get Johnny to do right in our room, and it hasn’t worked, we send him out of the room to the administration so that we can continue the lesson for the other students. What does the administration do? They send little Johnny right back into the room without any consequences for him, but then tell us (the teacher) that we must improve our classroom management. So the administrative does nothing, but it is the teachers fault.

What may change with your “competition?” These two things. Private schools may screen their students to only admit those with involved parents. And/or, they may institute some administrative support different from public school. And, that’s it.

Teachers will still try to teach. That will not change. But whatever goes wrong, will still be our fault.

I would be happy to give your specific “war stories” exemplifing what I have written, if you care. But, you get the idea.

By Jeff

May 3, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this

JustMe:

My own war stories were well documented here… parents still don’t understand…

By ECLB

May 3, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this

I disagree a bit with your statement jimd about the cream staying at the public schools and the rest leaving for the charter. My children are the straight-A, highly gifted, very involved in extra-curriculars kids, and I am one of the parents who volunteers and regularly communicates with the teachers. My kids need outside of the box teachers, teachers who will differentiate curriculum, and provide a challenge to my kids. Many of my children’s classmates are just like them, with parents who value education. The charter school my kids attend promised this, when our regular school, albeit a great school for most kids, did not meet our needs. With smaller class sizes, it was hoped that our children would also get some individualized attention that they didn’t get at the regular school (they are well-behaved and complacent kids), that perhaps their academic needs would be met. Unfortunately, that has not consistently been the case. While there are SOME outside of the box teachers, and SOME teachers who employ best practices with all students and hold them to a higher standard, the lack of accountability, say, the school not notifying parents that their child’s teacher is NOT CERTIFIED until the school year is nearly over, is unjustifiable. How many parents were sold one bill of goods, only to find out after CRC Testing that perhaps their child would have been better served in a school where at least the teachers are certified teachers? And when charter schools are formed on the basis of providing a superior education, how many years of declining test scores will parents put up with? At what point can county officials, or the state step in and say, this is not any different than the rest of the schools in our county? Charter schools are a good idea for many reasons, but there needs to be more oversight and a lot more accountability. Or a better system for monitoring and revoking charters when the school does not meet the higher standards they claim they will provide.

By jim d

May 3, 2007 9:32 AM | Link to this

Yes, I do understand those issues. But wouldn’t it be sweet if little johnny’s parents opted for a charter?

I’m not saying all would, but if even one did, wouldn’t that make your job easier? Isn’t that something most teachers would support rather than bow up against?

Charters will offer an option, to both parents and teachers. Sure you won’t be able to opt a child out of your classroom, but you could opt to teach at a charter if that is what you wanted. And who knows, parents of problem children or even problem parents may opt themselves and their children out of your traditional classroom for a charter. Would that not make conditions better for the teacher and the students that remain?

By JustMe

May 3, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

jim d-

As my students finish up a test today, I will share a couple of “war stories” about parents….

These are two true stories that happened to me this semester!

By JustMe

May 3, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

Jim d-

Of course having little Johnny going away would make my job easier. No doubt. But, the charter school is not required to take Johnny. Even if they do, they are not required to keep Johnny.

Bottom line is that shuffling Johnny around does not solve the core problem.

By jim d

May 3, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

Just me,

With no malicious intent meant here.

Why would a teacher object to a public charter school that might allow trouble students to escape a traditional classroom?

Why in heavens name would a teacher want to hold captive a student that might opt to go elsewhere? Charter schools will make this possable. I suppose this is why I have difficulty understanding why many teachers oppose Charter schools.

In my opinon Charter schools are just another public school that may make teachers jobs easier. They are not private schools and may not be selective in their enrollment.

By JustMe

May 3, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

Jim d-

I repeat myself. I don’t think any teacher would “object” to get rid of trouble students.

However, shuffling students around doesn’t solve the core problem.

Relize that I have taught at a charter school and I have also taught at a regular public school. So I am answering with a level of direct experience here.

By jim d

May 3, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

ECLB,

Your disatisfaction with your charter proves my point. Not to be mean, but I question your involvement for not questioning your childrens teachers credentials. I do so even at a traditional school.

Just me,

I believe you may in error. Charters may not descriminate in admissions. They must accept problem johnny’s and children with learning disabilities under most circumstanes(provided they apply). They are in fact public schools and while they are relieved of many requirements, they must adhere to many others.

By JustMe

May 3, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

jim d-

The charter school where I taught did accept qualifying students. The key word here is qualifying. Also, the principal had full power to expel a student and “banish” them to their home school.

This was part of the charter.

By jim d

May 3, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Just me,

Perhaps I’m failing to understand what you consider the “core problem”

Can you explain for me?

By JustMe

May 3, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

jim d-

A “war story” as evidence…

In the charter school, a fight broke out right in front of the principal. The principal grabbed the arm of the student that clearly started the fight, marched him immediately to the registrar, and had the registrar remove that student from enrollment.

That student never set foot on the charter school campus again.

By ECLB

May 3, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

JimD— I routinely question credentials, but when you are informed of one thing, and find out later something else…. Also, I am not opposed to non-traditional teachers who come from the professional world, say engineers teaching physics or math. However, even in the regular public system, if those non-traditional teachers are hired, they must obtain a free and clear GA teaching license, within 1 year, I believe, or they cannot work as teachers. When that doesn’t happen, and the school continues to allow them to teach, or obfuscates the true credentials and licensure of the teachers, it makes it difficult for parents to be on top of the matter. Even going to the federal and state websites, you get percentages/raw numbers of teachers that do not meet standards, not the names of those specifically not meeting. Obviously, after this horrible year, we as parents will not make the same mistake twice! Fortunately for us, our children are going to a different school next year, but I’m still concerned for those parents who are either unaware, or that feel they have no other choice (if home school doesn’t meet AYP or is violent).

By jim d

May 3, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

ECLB,

Good for you! But again, you prove my point that customer satisfaction/dissatisfaction will be the determing factor in the sucess or failure of a charter school.

By jim d

May 3, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

Just me,

That war story is an option that traditional schools have as well, they can transfer a student to an alternative school if they wish. They consistantly refuse to exercise that option largely due to NCLB. But the option does exist.

By jim d

May 3, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

ECLB

“I am not opposed to non-traditional teachers who come from the professional world, say engineers teaching physics or math.”

Unfortuanetly I am. My expierence there, shall we say, was less than good.

By JustMe

May 3, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

jim d-

You are not correct. A traditional public school does not have that option. There must be tons of history and documentation of repeated offenses before the administrative offices in the school system allow a transfer to an alternative school.

The amount of history and documentation required depends upon the school system. DeKalb County, IMHO, requires a rather large amount. The alternative school is already filled - and it was like that way before NCLB.

However, I want to point out again that shuffling students with issues around does not solve the core problems. I refer to the two core problems mentioned in my previous posts.

By JustMe

May 3, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

jim d-

The core problems were described in my post here at 9:15 AM, today.

I will repeat (kinda like I have to do with my students):

The core problems with students with issues really does not include the teachers or even the “system” at all. Changing teachers rarely solve anything. Changing the “system” will likely not solve anything either…. unless the cores problems are addressed.

The core problems are lack of parental support/action and lack of administrative support/action.

Please do go back and read my previous post.

By jim d

May 3, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

Just me,

Thanks, I’m running a bit slow today.

I guess I don’t consider it a teachers job to cure the parenting problem.

The fact that they often tolerate what I’d consider abusive working conditions? I don’t know what to tell ya. Well I really do but why start that one again?

By jim d

May 3, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Just me,

Maybe I just read this wrong then, but it sure appears to me that a student can be expelled and / or assigned to an alternative school for fighting. Sure they must be paneled, but it certainly looks like they can be gone pretty quick. I know for a fact at one high school in Gwinnett—you fight—you go to jail, you don’t pass go and you don’t collect $200. Oh, and you don’t get out free!

http://www.gwinnett.k12.ga.us/Board.nsf/db9884cb38ef2ae885256e5f0068c36e/12b23613c53b88c6852572b1005f7ebe/$FILE/Student%20Conduct%20Behavior%20Code.pdf

By JustMe

May 3, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

jim d-

You know as well as I that because it is in black and white, that doesn’t necessarily happen that way. Why, you may ask?

Pretend that you are an administrator. You don’t want your school to be on some “bad” list of schools that have excessive violence. Are you really going to proceed with getting all students that fight out of your school, realizing that every incidence is counted thus making your school look more “dangerous?” You know - the ajc list of “dangerous” public schools they print each year?

These are the number games played by administrators that have a direct impact on education and classroom learning. But very few people not involved with the educational process put 2 and 2 together.

So, teachers have to deal with these badly behaved kids that distract from the lessons. And since those kids don’t behave, teachers get into trouble for having “poor classroom management skills.”

Ever wonder why teachers are leaving the profession in large numbers and there is a teacher shortage in GA?????

By jim d

May 3, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

Just me,

So we are in agreement. The option does exist it just isn’t exercised due to NCLB.

By JustMe

May 3, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

jim d-

Doesn’t change the core problems of education.

By high school teacher

May 3, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

jimd,

not all school systems operate like Gwinnett. In our system, the sheriff and the juvenile court judge told the superintendnet to stop clogging up his courts with kids who fight at school, so they aren’t arrested unless there is proof of intent to harm, if the student is 18, or if someone is injured as a result of the fight.

Also, we have a limit of students we can send to the alternative school each year. We just had a major substance bust at school, so those kids are going to alt school, which means some of the ones over there for lesser offenses (repeated bad behavior) will be coming back to finish the year with us.

If a student is sent to alt school, parents in our system have the option to withdraw their child to homeschool them.

By JustMe

May 3, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

high school teacher…

It has become apparent to me, especially after this blog, that jim d is not interested in learning more about a topic nor is he interested in a real sharing of ideas. He is only interested in stating his opinion and having others praise him - kinda like Boortz. Jim d is not happy until you agree with him at least on the most mundane, tangent issue.

By jim d

May 3, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

Yeah HST,

and just me has a bit of a problem admiting when in error.

But hey, thats what makes the world go round.

I realize that even GCPS doesn’t always follow their own policies. That however does not preclude them from doing so.

And just for the record, it isn’t just a GCPS policy, but is mandated in state law. See OCGA 20-2-751.4

By high school teacher

May 3, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

jimd, would you mind providing the link to the OCGA laws? I don’t have the time to search at the moment. Thanks!

By jim d

May 3, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

No problem, other than I hate the new link.

http://w3.lexis-nexis.com/hottopics/gacode/default.asp

By jim d

May 3, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

Like I said, I hate this new link.

Once you open the above link —type 20-2-751.4 into the search browser then click on the link they provide.

Have fun!

By jim d

May 3, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Also for the record, anyone wishing to understand the charter school enrollment requirements laws. Don’t take my word for it. Check it out yourself.

http://doe.k12.ga.us/documents/schools/charterschools/csact.pdf

Note specifically 20-2-2066 with emphasis on 20-2-2066 (2) (c)

By jim d

May 3, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

ECLB,

While I was reading I heppened upon this one that might be of interest to you.

20-2-2068. Termination of a charter.

(it’s on page 9)

http://doe.k12.ga.us/documents/schools/charterschools/csact.pdf

By JustMe

May 4, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

jim d-

You can post links to everything in the universe. I can only share what I have seen and witnessed, first hand.

As I have stated before, just because there is some rule in black and white doesn’t mean that is how things work in the real world.

By jim d

May 4, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

Just me,

I agree that laws are often ignored or broken. That however, does not change the fact that it is the law.

By WhatWillBridgetDo?

May 4, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

JustMe has got it exactly right as far as discipline. And speaking of discipline and APS corruption, remember right before Patti left this blog she promised a follow up to the falsified discipline data submitted by APS officials?

In particular, South Atlanta high claimed to have zero violent crime reports, when the Atlanta Police Dept. reported they had to come to the school over 50 times that same year.

What happened to the follow up Bridget? What happened to finding out who else, besides the principal, had to sign off on this?

It’s funny that you’ll go on and on about one principal’s resume’ but say nothing about falsified federal documents. Are we afraid to find out just how high the deception went? Or are we just being pressured by higher ups not to report on this? As big an issue as discipline is, is this not worthy of follow up?

By jim d

May 4, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

WWBD,

Certainly you can’t expect the AJC to expose the truth in high growth areas. The new housing market in the area would be devistated and those advertising dollars would affect their bottom line. You appear to be under the false impression that the paper is there to report the news when in fact they exist to sell papers and advertising.

By WhatWillBridgetDo?

May 4, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

jim d,

Perhaps that explains the lack of AJC follow through when forty APS schools submitted falsified data stating that they had zero discipline problems. Zero? In a large urban school system?

I guess it also explains why there was no follow up when it was found out that five APS schools had a 50 point plus gain in the CRCT in a single year. Even though the only school member on the board at that time said that you can’t have such an increase without cheating, the AJC did nothing to follow up on it.

Since Bridget is obviously reading this morning, what about the follow up that Patti expressly promised on the falsified South Atlanta discipline data?

By JustMe

May 4, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

Paraphrasing jim d….

Since the CRCT has rules to prevent cheating, then logic follows that no cheating ever occurs. Right?

By jim d

May 4, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Just me.

You got it :-)

By jim d

May 4, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

just me,

one question.

hypothetically speaking. If someone witness a crime and fails to report it, have they broken the law or are they forgiven for their ignorance of the law?