Get Schooled

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this

Is there a solution to this problem? Yes. Would the general public accept it? NO. (Nor would I)

32 dead on a college campus. Unthinkable. You think school shootings, you think HS level, MAYBE MS. (Jonesboro, Arkansas anyone?) You never think college… even though people that age can LEGALLY own pretty much any gun that hasn’t been banned by Congress (including single shot 50 calibers… don’t get me started on the power of that weapon!)

I remember Columbine well though. I was a 10th grade student, had walked from school back to my grandmother’s house when I found out. (For some odd reason, no one told us at the school, though I’m sure now that the admins - if not teachers - had heard about it…) Turned on Springer, Springer wasn’t on. Every channel was running straight coverage of some obscure school in Colorado.

The one good thing that I will say about incidents such as Columbine and now VT - if you can call it “good” - is that it raises the general public’s awareness, and that raised awareness stops 90% of the people that would attack. It is also about the only thing that can be done that the general public will accept.

By KA

April 17, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

Too bad students are not allowed to legally carry guns on their campus.

By JustMe

April 17, 2007 8:36 AM | Link to this

I understand that the shooter had an automatic weapon, and that is why he was able to kill so many so fast.

Will the public ever accept gun control for automatic weapons? Do game hunters ever really use automatic weapons? What is their purpose other than to kill many people quickly?

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

JustMe:

While I will never support public availability of high caliber automatic weapons (I’m thinking full auto 50 cals or even 20 MMs here), I will say that in some situations, a semi auto 45 caliber can be a life saver.

Guns are not only about hunting, they are also about protection. No matter how good I am with a blade-type weapon, I have to be within reach of the aggressor (armLength + bladeLength). With a gun, say a 45 semiauto, depending on exactly how much I have trained, I can reach out as much as 100 yards or more accurately. While I know that is overkill in most areas of metro ATL (or even in the cities anywhere), in rural areas that might not even reach to the end of the driveway!

By WFC

April 17, 2007 8:51 AM | Link to this

I am so saddened by the events at VT. It is incomprehensible. My heart goes out to the families involved. It’s hard to imagine what they are going through. It’s staggering to contemplate the damage to so many lives that an insane person can do. This could have happened anywhere and the heart-wrenching fact is that such events are almost impossible to prevent. One thing that I find hard to understand is the IMMEDIATE RUSH TO JUDGEMENT to blame the VT authorities I heard all over the media last night. Please name me an organization prepared to deal with a suicidal psycho.

By Kym

April 17, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

I agree with WFC. The horror of what happen at VT reminds me daily that none of us at our jobs..on the highways..in the classroom are truly safe..someone who is unbalance is just that unbalance. We wake up each day with the hope that we get through it safe and sound. But there is no assurance that we will. We have to remember that it is not guns that kill people..guns are the tool it is the person pointing it that is the real killer.

By M-NORMOUS

April 17, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

Why is this unfortunate shooting at Va Tech, not looked at as being “RACIAL MOTIVATED?”. The shooter was Asian and most of the victims were white. Had this been a white student that shot and killed blacks and asians, every worthless minority ( especially Sharpton and Jackson)in this country would be battling for airtime to blame all their problems on the white man (the white man who gives special treatment to minorities so they can attend college). Why is the media not making a bigger issue out of this?

By Eric

April 17, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

After seeing the AJC’s headline today I will never buy a paper again, who came up with the idea to print “bloodbath” in bold words on the cover page? Who approved this? I will not even line a bird cage with this paper again. I have never been a big fan of the AJC, I get The Wall and the Times, but i did advertise in the AJC but that just stopped today.

By Ed

April 17, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

Before this blog is highjacked by the anti-guns zealots please keep in mind the two pistols used in this killing are not legally permitted or registered guns. The serial numbers were scratched off, this usually indicates these guns were bought illegally off the streets. What if just one student or one campus police officer had a legal and permitted gun, they could have stopped this madman before he had the luxury of time and no one reacting in self defense to stop him from continuing to kill and kill. He stopped only when he killed himself. Stopping the sale of legal and permiited weapons will not stop these types of killings. Is anyone naive or stupid enough to think this will stop people like this guy and other murderers from obtaining illegal guns? No. That makes about as much sense as saying women cannot bath thier children because Andrea Yates drowned five kids in a tub. People are stabbed with knives daily, we still have to have knives. We can’t exist in a society where we only allow crimminals to have guns, keep in mind crimminals do not obey guns laws, they obey no laws. By saying if this guy had not of had guns this would have never happened is like saying had we not allowed immigrants into the country this would not have happened either, or 9-11, these were not Amercians. Bottom line, these acts make no sense to anyone, sadly there’s little we can do to stop this in the future. Pray for the families.

By arthur

April 17, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

Yeah,if the shooter was a Black male you would have blamed it on rap music.Point is 90% of most mass murders & mass school shootings,and child molestors are white males. But today is not about Black or White it is about prayer for those families that died.

By Kia

April 17, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

M-Normous: Exactly where are you getting your information from? The victims on the list released so far were Indian, Israeli, and black. This would indicate that the killer was an equal opportunity killer. Race has nothing to do with the plot of a deranged killer. These people were victims of a senseless massacre and to label it a racial crime shows an utter disrespect for what transpired. Let’s focus on the real issue here: 32 PEOPLE are dead…who cares what race or ethnicity they were?

By OldSchool

April 17, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

Thankfully, our 2 cousins (both VT students) are safe…scared but safe.

I was dismayed at early fingerpointing the media was attempting. Is it truly possible to let a large community know what is possibly going on BEFORE finding out the basic facts and without alarming the entire area? What would the press have had the administration do? Run screeching from building to building? I dare say none of us know how we would react in horrific situations until we are actually in one. We can drill, role-play, and rehearse all we want but when faced with extreme danger, would we really be brave…

…or would we try to be the first with cell phone video or on the tv?

By Ed

April 17, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

No matter what the race, these kids are our best and brightest being killed. These were not crimminals in a shoot out. The young man from Georgia was about to graduate with a degree in English and Biology and now he is dead for no reason. He is black but does that matter, heck no, what matters is that we lost potential leaders of tomorrow like this young man on the fast track to success. This is not about race it is about our kids.

By hush

April 17, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

This is not the time for talking (or writing). Its a time for prayer for the dead and their families and solidarity in our hearts with all the people who are suffering today. Lets heed the title of this blog and say nothing for a while. There will be a time for talk later.

By SET

April 17, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

To the extent writers try to use the VA Tech shootings to debate race - it won’t work. The stats on who commits crime and who doesn’t statistically are all over the internet (annual FBI statistics by race). Besides that, anyone who works in the courts and the hospitals can tell you which race are primarily the perps and the victims of violent crime.

VA Tech, like the WA DC Holocast Museam, are monuments to gun control. Florida’s concealed weapon laws make it less likely that any maniacal criminal will get so far.

In CA you’d better assume that all criminals are armed. Just ask the drug dealers I deal with why they had the gun and the drugs together (which brings much higher prison time). They will tell you it’s for protection - they are afraid for their lives. And they are. And we have rather few street level drug dealers blown away any more since greatly in excess of 10% of them are armed, and you can’t tell which 10%.

I believe FL found out the same thing when they liberalized gun carry permits. Once 10% of the population is carrying street crime has to decline because it becomes too unhealthy for the predators.

This government wants it’s people docile, unarmed and dependent on the gov’t for daily survival. VA Tech will be used by Congress - essentially all of which have carry permits (and responsive guards) - to further disarm the people.

By ABS

April 17, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

All this press blaming the VT campus police is complete BS….think for a minute about UGA or Georgia Tech. If a student got shot in one of those dorms, there is absolutely no way campus police could shut down the entire campus of either school. It is logistically impossible. People can not get their heads around something so horrible, so they start blaming someone….the shooter is dead, so they are blaming the police….

Sorry, Ed, but I’m an anti-gun zealot…but you are right, there are plenty of illegal guns on the street and if a criminal wants one, he’ll get it. Think about drugs….if you are a drug addict…you’ll get drugs.

I think the problem is that we as a society, are scared…you assume you will be a statistic of gun violence when in reality, the chances of you getting shot by a “bad guy” are very slim. I’m not suggesting that it can’t happen, but why live in fear? If you own a gun, you are more likely to wind up shooting a relative, or worse yet, a child gets a hold of the gun and shoots themselves, or again, a family member, friend, pet, etc. Ask any policeman…they’ll tell you that.

Hello Jeff…don’t forget to take a walk today at lunch!

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

OldSchool:

You are exactly right. No matter how much you train (and I have every faith in police units until they prove otherwise), the unexpected is just that - unexpected. Trying to secure a college campus is about as useless as trying to stop water from coming into a submarine with a screen door. And once something like this happens, the ONLY safe way to “go tactical” is rapid information gathering. Otherwise, you are only putting more people in danger. I agree with the University officials: tell the people on campus to stay put and away from doors/ windows once you hear reports of shots fired. Warning people off campus would only create mass panic. (Though I may have posted sentries at all campus entrances - if possible - telling people to simply turn around, campus is closed, reasons to be made public later.)

What I want to know, and haven’t seen anyone reporting yet, was why was the one building chained from the inside?

By marbo

April 17, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

By M-NORMOUS

April 17, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

Why is this unfortunate shooting at Va Tech, not looked at as being “RACIAL MOTIVATED?”. The shooter was Asian and most of the victims were white. Had this been a white student that shot and killed blacks and asians, every worthless minority ( especially Sharpton and Jackson)in this country would be battling for airtime to blame all their problems on the white man (the white man who gives special treatment to minorities so they can attend college). Why is the media not making a bigger issue out of this?

• Is this not the dumbiest comment ever made on a blog? Sir you are a dumbazz! How can you use a forum such as this to spew your hate. It’s “people” like you who commit these types of crimes!

By the captian

April 17, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

Just wondering why the AJC felt the need to place the VT gunman’s race in the headline today? All other news organizations are identifying him just as a “Student” in there leads. However you decided to identify him as “Korean” student. HMMMM would the same thing had been done had this guy been black? How about white????? Would the AJC print a headline that said “Gunman ID’d as White Student”?????

By Apaul404

April 17, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

M-NORMOUS needs to watch his or her mouth. Who exactly is a worthless minority clown? The shooter shot and killed a black man and Indian man and any one else he could shoot. Can we just leave race out of this one long enough for people to grieve.

By Chris

April 17, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

“By KA

April 17, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

Too bad students are not allowed to legally carry guns on their campus.”“

The shooter was legally carrying guns, you iddiot! People who legally purchase handguns go crazy and massacres happen.

By Koz

April 17, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

Hindsight maybe 20/20 but there is absolutely no reason for the media to be calling for the resignation of the School President.

The media acts like he wanted 33 people to die because he didn’t act quick enough.

I’m sure if he’d have known what was going to happen he would have done everything in his power to avoid it.

By KA

April 17, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

ABS, you said “If you own a gun, you are more likely to wind up shooting a relative, or worse yet, a child gets a hold of the gun and shoots themselves, or again, a family member, friend, pet, etc.”

That is ridiculous! Most gun owners would are responsible, trained in handling guns, who secure their weapons and ammunition and they rational people who never shoot people! Where do you get your information? What statistics do you draw your conclusions from?

By ABS

April 17, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

Ummmm…the gunman IS Korean…actually lives there…is a Korean citizen….I don’t think the AJC is trying to make it a “race” thing….the dude was Korean.

By gun totin' teacher

April 17, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

This is why I carry a gun on me at all times!!!!

By G'Vegas Dawg

April 17, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

It really saddens me that the majority of the country now has to find a place for blame before they find the time to grieve. I have already heard Dr. Phil blaming the trajedy on video games. I am sure the libs will blame it on gun control or the Republicans (somehow), Rosie will for sure come up with some off the wall wacky BS. The point that I am trying to make is that before placing the blame give the people directly involved some time to grieve. Placing blame doesn’t bring back 33 people. I saw a headline this morning that read something to the effect of “the situation could have been avoided if VT campus security would have acted faster”. Really? Who knows if it would have or not? Does it even matter right now?

CAPTIAN - In response to your question, Yes, the Atlanta Urinal and Constipation would probably have printed that exact headline.

By BDF

April 17, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

Put the hate aside, drop the racial references, stand back for a moment and realize that 32 people lost their lives yesterday in the most tragic gun related mass murder in the history of our country. DO NOT BLAME the school, DO NOT BLAME RACE, MOURN those who have died, pray for the parents, family, and friends who have suffered loss and who need this support to move on with their lives. Pray for our country most of all, a country that continues to struggle with how to cope with these senseless crimes, pray that our lawmakers will use this event to make the right decisions, and most of all, hug someone friend or family today, and tell them that you love them. Life is precious, and its the only chance that we are given. My heart and my thoughts are with everyone affected by this tragedy…

By ABS

April 17, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

I get my information from my brother-in-law who is a policeman. And no, it’s not ridiculous to say that. And, no, I haven’t felt the need to look up gun statistics this morning….I’m just using the common sense that most of us have.

If you feel the need to own a gun to protect yourself, that’s fine. But chances are you are more likely to shoot someone or thing on an accident than you are to actually have to protect yourself — even if you are responsible and have been through years of training.

By Buzzfan®

April 17, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

I’ve not been a CNN-watcher for some time, now, as the coverage had tended to become very sensationalist and ‘yellow’ in my opinion. However, I was monitoring multiple news sources both via satellite and online during the horrific happenings on the campus at VPI&SU yesterday and last night….as was much of the country.

During my viewing of CNN and Headline News, I was dismayed (but, disturbingly, not surprised) at the antics of Nancy “I want answers!” Grace. While member after member of the Virginia Tech student and faculty community were quick to laud the administration and public safety personnel, Ms. Grace was characteristically (or maybe “caricturistically”?) persistent in her attempts to indict them in hindsight.

One would think she would have learned a lesson from her haphazard and foolish rush to judgment in the recent Duke (non-)rape case (which, luckily for her, is now quite forgotten in the headlines.)

I guess I should thank Ms. Grace for the piercing reminder of why I had abandoned the CNN family of networks, and why they continue to make the fair-minded residents of Metro Atlanta and Georgia somewhat embarrassed to have to share our “home” with them.

John Vestal Cumming, GA

By Buzzfan

April 17, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

I’ve not been a CNN-watcher for some time, now, as the coverage had tended to become very sensationalist and ‘yellow’ in my opinion. However, I was monitoring multiple news sources both via satellite and online during the horrific happenings on the campus at VPI&SU yesterday and last night….as was much of the country.

During my viewing of CNN and Headline News, I was dismayed (but, disturbingly, not surprised) at the antics of Nancy “I want answers!” Grace. While member after member of the Virginia Tech student and faculty community were quick to laud the administration and public safety personnel, Ms. Grace was characteristically (or maybe “caricturistically”?) persistent in her attempts to indict them in hindsight.

One would think she would have learned a lesson from her haphazard and foolish rush to judgment in the recent Duke (non-)rape case (which, luckily for her, is now quite forgotten in the headlines.)

I guess I should thank Ms. Grace for the piercing reminder of why I had abandoned the CNN family of networks, and why they continue to make the fair-minded residents of Metro Atlanta and Georgia somewhat embarrassed to have to share our “home” with them.

John Vestal Cumming, GA

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

OK, I was refraining from painting the AJC as leftist anti-gun shrill, but why else would they post the article “World reaction” under the pic? Surely they could have found a more balanced “world reaction” piece….

By honest_abe

April 17, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

quick question how many news headlines do you read about someone who saved a life by having a gun?

how about lives that were lost due to a gun. guns kill period.

allowing everyone to have a gun doesn’t make things safer. it makes everything more dangerous. imagine if everyone had a gun. geez. gun apologists are so lame.

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

abe:

The reason you don’t hear about guns saving lives is two fold:

a) it wouldn’t fit the mainstream media’s ideology

b) if a life is SPARED because of my gun, the incident becomes a non-issue.

By OldSchool

April 17, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

Has anyone else noticed that during the endless coverage of “breaking news,” the same stories get repeated and the vocabulary subtley changed until “bad” becomes “horrific” and a minor cut becomes a bloodgushing, gaping abyss?

A news story seems to beget more and more story-versions before the facts are allowed to come out.

By ABS

April 17, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Buzzfan…I must agree…in this world of instant gratification, we demand that we get instant news and instant answers and when idiots like Nancy Grace don’t understand is that police investigations take time….she is such a blow hole. Can you imagine if the campus police had just started spitting out erroneous facts? Can you imagine the effects of that? Someone on CNN’s set should have come on set and taped Nancy Grace’s mouth shut….the same with Lou Dobbs…what another blow hole!

By honest_abe

April 17, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

jeff that’s crazy. any news headline about a hero makes the news. i remember one and thats the only one i remember about a guy that saved a woman here in atlanta when he shot a someone who had taken a woman by force. you can make as many apologies for the nra as you want. but the bottom line is if everyone in this world had guns we’d all be dead by the end of the week.

as for the ignoramus that tried this a racial issue. give it a break man. it was one person. who had severe mental issues. he was a pyschotic killer and unfortunately a lot of people are suffering today because of his actions. don’t group an entire race with what he did. who’s the last korean other than this guy who went on a massive shooting spree? only in atlanta does race ALWAYS have to be an issue.

By ABS

April 17, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

Jeff, Your answers are speculative at best. They are hypothetical. You don’t hear about people saving the lives of others with their guns for one simple reason: it doesn’t happen that often!

I can only think of two instances recently that were in the news and please forgive me…I can’t remember all the details:

1) the guy who shot the man who had carjacked someone

2) the ex-Marine who killed the kid who was trying to rob him - but did he have a gun? I can’t remember

By teach overseas

April 17, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Old School- I’m with you- even here on this blog- we are never mad, we are outraged- we are never embarassed, we are humilitated. There seems to be so little in between these days…

By InWonder

April 17, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

No…people kill via themselves or a weapon. A gun on its own will NOT harm anyone. People need to stop blaming the weapons and start blaming where the blaming belongs: the person who commits the crime. The weapon didn’t make the person commit the crime, the person did.

Also, when are people going to understand the TRUTH that our kids are harmed or killed more by cars and bathtubs than by a gun sitting in a gun safe in their home.

When are people going to take accountability for their actions and when are people going to accept people are able to do anything on their own?

By Brian

April 17, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

“All other news organizations are identifying him just as a “Student” in there leads. However you decided to identify him as “Korean” student. would the same thing had been done had this guy been black? How about white”

No, they wouldn’t, but this wasn’t a description of his appearance, it’s a nationality. If it had been a foreign born white or black or middle eastern student, couldn’t you see the gunman being labeled as “Polish”, “Kenyan” or “Saudi Arabian” or whatever the courty or origin may be?

By Rob

April 17, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

This stuff doesnt happen in other countries, why?

By MrLiberty

April 17, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

honest_abe

check out this link:

http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kleck.interview.html

According to a major university study, firearms are used over 2.5 million times every year to deter a crime. The author of the study by the way is a life-long democrat and member of the ACLU and Common Cause.

Maybe the better question to ask is why are you being denied the opportunity to know the truth about guns by the major media?

Just imagine if everyone had a gun. Nobody would ever try and pull the kind of stunt like yesterday’s. Even if you don’t carry a gun, you benefit when many do or at least when everyone knows that anyone COULD be carrying.

If you are afraid of guns, fine. But please don’t allow your ignorance or your paranoia render the rest of us helpless victims.

It is not the job of the police to protect us all. The Supreme Court has made that clear on many occasions. It is unfortunate that our culture has embraced guns, but being unarmed (both in the fact department and the firearm department) is no way to counter the threat.

By the way, lame is hiding in the corner hoping the police will save you.

By G'Vegas Dawg

April 17, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O’Donnell fat.

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

abe and ABS:

You keep a weather radio in the off chance that in the case of severe weather you will be prepared, even though the BEST you can do is PASSIVE security measures. I keep several types of weapons (all legal) in my home in the off chance that in the case someone breaks into my home, I can take ACTIVE security measures.

Only difference between us is that I am prepared for something I can actually prevent. You just lay down and take it….

By InWonder

April 17, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

Uh, NOOOOO - we would NOT be all dead at the end of the week if everyone had a gun and everyone knew that we all had guns.

A majority of people today are so PC and don’t want to start any conflict that if they knew the person had a gun they would be walking on eggshells to make them happy.

Everyone would NOT start going around shooting people and banning guns is NOT the answer.

It is all about accountability and responsiblity.

We are also a very egocentric society. We all think our sh*t don’t stink and neither does our kids and we will fight you because of that. Forget the fact that someone could possibly be telling you the TRUTH or a FACT. We all want to blame everyone and everything. We forget that we need self-control nor do we think we need it. Hey, we are all “perfect”. Yes, there are some people out there that have a REAL medical issue pychologically, but the majority of us really don’t. We just severely lack any self-control and coping skills (all thanks to Generation Entitled and the parents who cannot say “no” their kids…YES, you ARE to blame on this because this IS how you raised your kids, your kids didn’t raise themselves nor could they know enough to be able to successfully.)

That is my 2 cents….

By JustMe

April 17, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

G’Vegas Dawg -

But if there were no spoons, to use your analogy, then Rosie would not be fat!

By Kym

April 17, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

It is so sad that this tragic event has now taken on the life of it was racial motivated or the call to increase gun safety. The facts are this:

All of the eyewitness accounts say he was silent and began shooting. He didnt line up his victims according to race. He didnt ask them how they felt about gun control. He was not trying to make any kind of political statement. He was crazed and people lost their lives because of it. Young, old, black, white, hispanic, muslim…none of that mattered to this young man. If you want to debate something debate mental health or how our children have become so desensitized to violence.

By G'Vegas Dawg

April 17, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

JustMe - Let’s go ahead and start blaming pencils for kids failing tests while we’re at it.

You are correct, if there were no spoons she would use a fork or knife or widdle a stick to feed her fat face. As this idiot would have used a knife, baseball bat, sling shot, bomb, etc. to kill these innocent victims.

By JustMe

April 17, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

G’Vegas Dawg =

I think that there is hope for you! It sounds like you are catching on!!

If Rosie still wanted to eat, yes you are right, she could use a knife, etc. But, it would be much more difficult for her to eat and get fat!

If that idiot was trying to kill people with a knife, a bat, etc., then he would not have likely killed nearly as many people as he did with his guns.

Get it?

By scott

April 17, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

Some of you never cease to amaze me how you can take any topic and mold it to fit your skewed way of thinking and agendas.

This is a tragedy in my home state of Virginia that will stay with us all. Virgina Tech in Blacksburg is probably one of the most remote large campuses that could be considered safe. This could happen anywhere where someone snaps.

If you do not have anything positive to say today, please stay off the blog.

By honest_abe

April 17, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

cmon people. that facts are facts. gun related deaths in europe as well as most countries in asia are much lower than here in the US. is it because people in the US are just naturally more evil than those countries? i’d like to think not.

as for the person who suggest it would’ve been safer yesterday if everyone had a gun. that’s just ludicrous. a wild shootout between students with a bunch of innocent people in between. some who probably dont’ even know how to use a firearm. mass confusion, i only see it as more people would’ve died in that kind of scenario.

gvegas dawg: you’re right a person who is determined to kill, will. but why make it easier for the deranged? guns have one purpose and thats to kill life. why do people defend a tool like that so strongly? it boggles my mind.

By scott

April 17, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Kym,

You have said it best.

By Proud Dawg

April 17, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

This incident is not about race, it is not about the right to bear arms, it is not about whether the authoruty response was fast enough… this is a senseless tragedy by one person who had no respect for his or any other persons life and dreams! I hope he burns in hell for eternity, forever realizing the error of his final decision!

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

abe:

Take a look at View From a Cop….

By ABS

April 17, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

Jeff, You are paranoid….and to imply that I and abe are cowards just because we don’t own guns is just plain silly.

Also, I don’t have a weather radio — I can usually tell if bad weather is coming by looking out the window.

Like I said earlier, go for a walk…it’s lunch time…that’s what I’m about to do! You’ll feel better.

Mr. Liberty, you obviously know nothing about research…there are so many holes in that article that it isn’t even worth mentioning. One major university study (which I seriously doubt that was) does not over ride common sense.
The first really obvious hole in your “major university study” is who published it….no one with any intelligence would take that with a grain of salt.

I said this in a blog to some ignorant gun-loving woman the other day who pointed me to an article published by the Fascist Hudson Institute — of course they are going to publish that kind of garbage — but that would be like me saying that peace is the answer to everything and then citing my source as the United States Institute for Peace.

Any one with an inkling of knowledge about research, real research….can look at that article and simply laugh.

By InWonder

April 17, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

More people probably would of died if he had used a bomb. He could of blown up two entire buildings full of people…how many people do you think that would of been? W-A-Y more than 32.

By G'Vegas Dawg

April 17, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

Agree to disagree

By L'Oreal

April 17, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

this comment is for M-NORMOUS. They’re not making it about race because it wasnt about race. Your comment is very ignorant. I’m not going to get into it but your comment is ridiculous and uncalled for. From what I see in the pictures I’m guessing a large portion of the school is white and from what I hear he shot whoever he was around and the guy Ryan Clark who was one of the first to get killed was black. He didnt target white people. He targeted anyone he saw. I feel really bad about what happened and its terrible what the friends and family of everyone who died has to go through. Its a shame you’re bringing something so petty up at a time like this.

By Ryan

April 17, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

I am so freaking tired of listening to people defend our right to bear arms. The world of 1776 is a little different then the one we live in now. The answer is to ban handguns…period. If you want to go hunting, use a rifle. Any reason you may give for the continued lagality of handguns is a load of crap. This is a problem that will continue to happen. How many people must die in this way before we realize that not banning handguns is nothing more then political caving to a small minority of gun enthusiasts. The rest of the population should not have to live in fear because you people get your jollies from shooting defwnseless animals. Pathetic!!!

By Ed

April 17, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

What an absolute perfect society we’d make for crimminals if we banned guns. There are millions of guns on street, thats a fact. Who on this blog thinks for one minute if the government banned guns, that crimminals would turn in their guns? Who is that stupid? After all, these are crimminals. It would be law abidding citizens who turn in their guns, thus creating a perfect world for crimminals to operate within; they would have no fear of their victims self protecting, they know they’d be the only ones armed so whats to stop them from doing anything to anyone? Stop being so naive people. It is your personal choice to own a gun or not to own a gun. It is the gun owners responsibilty to be lawful, legal and careful with the guns they own. The fear of jail rarely if ever stops a crimminal. The fear of being killed in self defense does. How often do you see crooks walking up to an armed cop and robbing them, or car jacking their vehicle. They know they’d be shot dead if they tried it. I want them to think the same about me, that I’d drop them on the spot in self defense. I am safe with my guns and I go to the firing range about once a week, I am a responsible gun owner and I have fifty ribbons and trophies to show I am also a very, very good marksman.

By ATLien

April 17, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

uggghhh, enough with the race card!!! By the way G’Vegas Dawg….the Atlanta Urinal and Constipation? SHEER GENIUS my friend!!! ROTFLMAO

By Jo Ann Swafford

April 17, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

I agree regarding disgust at today’s headline…so typical of AJC to be sensational beyond sensational. Really? Was it necessary to point out the obvious?

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

Ed:

You wouldn’t happen to know where I can find a range in the Macon/ Albany area would ya? Just moved to Macon, never did manage to find one in Albany!

(BTW: For the record: I’m better than the “normal” person with a gun, but my area of expertise - for the moment - is bladed/ blunt force weaponry. My parents were very much like ABS…)

By MrLiberty

April 17, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Honest_abe asks “why do people defend a tool like that so strongly?”

On April 19, 1775, in response to the attempts by the British army to lock up the armory in Williamsburg, Virginia, colonists ended up confronting the British in Lexington and later Concord, Mass. Our founding fathers knew that if their rights to guns and ammo were taken away, there would be nothing they could do to stand up against British rule.

The first modern day gun control law was the Gun Control Act of 1939. With it, Hitler disarmed the population of Germany. The confiscation of guns in every future conquered country was first on the list of things to do. The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto knew better than to hand in their guns and they lived to fight another day. The rest of europe’s history is well known. The first gun control laws in the US were modeled on Hitler’s 1939 act (big surprise).

Once a population is disarmed, there is nothing standing between the government and complete tyrrany. There is also nothing standing between the criminals and complete terror of the populace.

The gun was invented long before we came along. Yes, it is a tool of great harm, but one that cannot only be controled by the government and the criminals (but I repeat myself). It is so strongly defended because it is the great equalizer.

A man may be stronger than a woman, but not one with a gun. Three men may outnumber one, but not with a gun.

All the laws in the world will not eliminate guns. Drugs are illegal and yet prison is one of the easiest places to get them. Making guns harder to get for the rest of us only gives the criminals both in society and in our government a leg up on the rest of us should they decide that the current situation is not enough for them. The presence of millions of guns in society, and better yet concealed on persons as they go about their daily lives is the best deterent yet.

Sometimes the truth is hard to swallow, but that doesn’t change its status as the truth.

By ATLien

April 17, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

I was on the train this morning and saw that tasteless AJC headline and wondered what idiot thought it was appropriate to print that. It communicated to me that the AJC were detached from the tragedy and just wanted to say, “Hey! Look what we scooped!!!”

By Michael Powell

April 17, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Questions to ponder:

How many times have you heard of a case where carrying a concealed weapon saved somebody’s life?

How many more times have you heard of a accidental killing of a child as result of a weapon in the home?

How many times has a domestic disturbance become deadly as a result of a weapon in someones’s home?

What is the purpose in carrying a semi-automatic weapon?

If everyone carried a weapon, would we be safer?

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

MrLiberty:

It is not often we find ourselves on the same side of an issue, but here we are!

Welcome!

By Hick from the sticks

April 17, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

Gun owner?

Yes.

Idiot?

Only my wife seems to think so.

Folks, I have never shot my pet, a loved one, or had a child find my gun and shoot him/herself because of Bugs Bunny cartoons/Marilyn Manson told the child to do it/maybe got into some really bad poetry and thought it would make him/her a martyr.

A gun is only as deadly as the person wielding it.

I know.

“The gun can (and has! There’s been studies! I read it on the cacophony of truthful information known as the internet!) go off without anyone touching it!”

Sad fact is, someone highly disturbed was handling it yesterday. Lots of innocent lives were lost in what can only be best described as tragedy. Not Bloodbath as some media would like to portray it.

I’m just sayin’.

By Don

April 17, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

The grisly scene at Virginia Tech is yet another all too familiar scene that is being played out in our living rooms. Innocent people brutally slain, people asking how it could happen, the media mindlessly and relentlessly passing on the devastation, sorrow, and shattered lives to the rest of the nation. And all of us asking, in our own mindless sort of way, how could this happen? What could cause a person to do such a horrendous thing? Asking why and how, when in fact the answer is in front of them. Truth is, we are a vicious and brutal society. We practically indoctrinate our children, beginning early in life, with a message that says callousness toward others, brutality as a means to an end, and violent behavior is OK. We do it all in the name of entertainment or news, and we are all to blame. Whether it’s the video game that we buy our kids whose object is for the player (your child) to kill as many innocent bystanders or cops as possible in the time alloted; or the lyrics and video images of a “song” that we buy our teenagers (or ourselves) that denigrates classes of people by calling them “hos” or castigates the virtues of discipline and responsibility; or the print and TV news media whose mantra is that the only news worth reporting is that which is sensational (to wit violent), it’s all the same. So really, we are all complicit to a degree…supposed bystanders and “victims” to a crime who wonder why…when at the same time we do not raise a voice to demand that “enough is enough” from the entertainment and news media who are the purveyors of the brutal and violent message that is, hour-by-hour, persistent in our society. And we ask why?

By OldSchool

April 17, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Suppose for a moment that the school administration had gotten the radio and tv stations to broadcast instructions for everyone on campus to remain in lockdown. Would not many commuters who were walking across campus find themselves locked out of buildings with no place to go? (At our school, a lockdown means you let NO ONE inside once the doors are locked.) Then there would be the inevitable rubberneckers who would flock to the campus to get a better look-see at the goings on, parents wishing to remove their kids from harm’s way, and others seeking the excitment of it all. And every extra person would be hampering the efforts of the authorities by just being there…in the way…needing protection. (I’m not going to mention the media but they do seem to appear like ants to a picnic.)

What will likely happen now is a close look by the school admins and police of their responses with an eye to figure out how to better react and get the word out. It will not be an easy task nor will any solution be a completely foolproof one. But I have no doubt (from listening to the VT students) that the campus will return to relative quiet and students will regain most of their sense of security and no one will ever again take life for granted.

And just as likely, all schools everywhere will be even more safety conscious.

By MrLiberty

April 17, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

ABS (and everyone else),

Type in “Guns and crime prevention” into a Google search. Look at the quantity of pieces and the vast amounts of research that has been done.

No one would expect the Brady Foundation to publish such a study and there is no reason to dismiss it simply because of who did.

Fine, lets cut the number by 90%. That’s still 250,000 times per year a gun deters a crime. Want to be an even bigger naysayer. Let’s cut it 99%. That’s still 25,000 times per year. If you are one of those 25,000 than a gun helped you out.

And just as you wouldn’t expect the Brady foundation to publish this article, there is no reason to expect the mainstream media to report on the non-violent self-defense use of a gun. Frankly, most times such an even is probably not even reported to police.

You only believe that guns can do evil (unless a police officer is using one of course). That’s too bad.

I personally don’t care if you have a gun or not. That is still your choice. But it is not appropriate for you to decide that I do not have a right to defend my own life if it is in danger. You are not god, and so long as I behave responsibly with my gun, it should be of no concern to you.

By G'Vegas Dawg

April 17, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Ryan - You my friend are a genius. If we ban hand guns and keep rifles legal then I am sure that only hunters will use them. Cho sung hui would not have gotten a hold of a rifle, there is just no way. Gun control today communisim tomorrow.

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

Michael:

Domestic disputes use knives and blunt weapons FAR more often than guns, with about an equal death rate.

The purpose of a semi-auto is safety - mine and everyone around me.

If everyone carried a weapon, everyone would be safer due to the fact that even the best attacker (I’m thinking SpecOps trained) would have to take into account that EVERYONE is armed. No rational person will attack a crowd if he thinks the crowd will overwhelm him. Only when he thinks he can get away with it will a sane man attack. Thus you would only see two types of attacks with guns: insane people and snipers.

By fatz

April 17, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends….. thank you Professor Liviu Lebrescu, for your gift of your life - given to the students in your classroom as you held the door closed while they escaped through the windows. Perhaps your experience surviving the holocaust taught you the preciousness and the fragility of life. Whatever it was inside you that made you instantly and instinctively put yourself in harm’s way to save others, I can only pray that I find that in me and nurture it. May God bless and keep you, sir.

By Alex

April 17, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

This is so typical of the anti-gun crowd. Liberals can’t face the fact that people kill people, not guns. A home swimming pool is 100 times more likely to kill a child than a gun, but the press is infatuated with gun control. Should we ban all swimming pools?

By SET

April 17, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

Jeff: I’m not a gun apologist. I know people.

I am armed. So are most of my friends. I know criminals are armed including those who are not especially predatory. They need guns to stay alive in this brave new world. And they aren’t about to call 911 when they do brandish a weapon and ward off an attacker either. Most people won’t nowadays.

My parents always had guns, handguns and rifles. I shot bottles off a log (missed a lot then, I suppose) when I was 5. Their generation tended to be armed but my younger cousins (we are black, remember) generally are not. My older cousins all have guns - but they are in retirement now.

We had no illusions about who was going to defend us if and when we were attacked. And yes, there were threats over the years - some from whites and some from blacks. California was a blast in first 60 years of the 20th Century. But from what I heard my grandparent’s generation back east kept guns. For the same reasons.

You think you are safe or being protected by your government. Well, good luck. Around here you can get a recording when you call 911 - (your call will be answered in the order received!)

The VA Tech murders were a product of an armed foreign national with mental illness. Deal with it.

And by the way, more public school students are being killed quietly by AIDS than by any gunmen. In our county the avg age at Dx is 24, typically a black female infected over 10 years prior. Our population is less than 5% black female.

We forcibly test, register and contact trace Tuberculosis Dxs but do nothing about contact tracing AIDS Dxs - While allowing HIV to steadily move through the black underclass population. I’m not buying this government giving a damn about mortality rates for “students”.

So excuse me if I don’t see a grounds to disarm the tax paying, law abiding, property owning public because we won’t control mentally ill exchange students.

By InWonder

April 17, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

UGH!!! When are people going to understand that there are more dangers in your home that kill more kids a year than a gun in the home?! This is a FACT!!!

You ask a question which I have put the answer in here like twice (I think). READ.

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

SET:

Did you mean that post for someone else? I’m one of the ones DEFENDING the Second Ammendment! :P

By karen

April 17, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

I think it is sad and sick that some people on this blog choose to raise the issue of race. As a mother, all I know is many young people, who could have been our sons and daughters died needlessly yesterday. Reading about the young man from Georgia brought tears to my eyes. He was graduating and was an RA in the dorm. I am sure his family was looking forward to seeing a bright future for him and now that has been taken away from him, and them. My own brother died a few years ago, and the hearbreak and pain it caused our family was immense. My mom never recovered as the loss of a child is the worse thing to happen. Instead of debating gun control, race issues, etc, now is the time to thank God for our own families and to pray for the souls of those killed at VT and for God to give strength to their families.

By sunny

April 17, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

Leave race out of this, these children are dead, lives lost gone forever, parents, family are now torn apart, and some of you talking about race, BLOOD IS BLOOD I DON’T CARE WHAT COLOR YOUR SKIN IS OR YOUR RACE WE ALL BLEED THE SAME COLOR, WE NEED TO PRAY AND ASK GOD TO BE WITH THESE FAMILY RIGHT NOW THEY NEED COMFORT THEY NEED EVERYONE LOVE RIGHT NOW THOSE WERE CHILDREN WHO HAD PLANS AND WAS TRYING TO PUT THERE EDUCATION TO USE, AND SOMEWHERE SOME OF YOU CHOSE TO PLAY THE RACE CARD, LET ME TELL ALL OF YOU SOMETHING GOD MADE EVERYONE OF US AND GOD WILL NEVER PLAY THE RACE CARD……PLEASE PRAY FOR THESE FAMILIES.

By K

April 17, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

Does Jeff remind anyone else of Dwight Shrute?

By Charles

April 17, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Her sins have reached unto heaven, and it is God who has remembered her iniquities…

Let the words of the mouth of the prophets, and the meditation of the hearts of the saints, be acceptable in thy sight, oh God our strength, oh God our redeemer.

By SET

April 17, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

Karen, to each his own. Men deal with problems differently than most women do. That’s why Cops and Soldiers are usually male. I don’t “Thank God” and I don’t “pray”. I prefer to deal with the world differently than you do.

If it makes you happy to think that other people are “sad and sick” because they are not you and don’t think the way you do, you should be euphoric.

In my world I see constant problems that did not come out of nowhere - and I’m paid to fix other people’s problems. I’d like people to live as long and as well as they can. To me that involves a lot less praying and a lot more doing.

Some people learn their lessons the hard way and change, some pray a lot and continue their behaviors. To each his own.

I once voted for George McGovern. I’m different now. You learn things as you get older.

Jeff: Sorry ‘bout that!

By Chuck

April 17, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

Guns dont kill people….people kill people…

By V for Vendetta

April 17, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

Well I called it. I knew we couldn’t resist having a big, old, long discussion (that would inevitably lead to gun control). I grew up around guns, but my parents were not into hunting or some kind of crazy para-military types. My dad simply enjoyed collecting various types of guns, a hobby he inherited from my grandfather. One thing I learned before I learned anything else about firearms was respect. I quickly learned that you must respect a gun because of what it is and what it can do.

Over the years I saw my dad carry a 9mm in his glove compartment when we went on vacation. I made it all the way through school without ever disobeying his DIRECT instructions to never handle a gun when he was not present. I fired a gun for the first time on my own when I was in college.

The issue here isn’t guns. It never has been and it never will be. There are thousands of ways a person could die just by walking down the street. Guns are only a fraction of the equation. Some have said that the damage could have been lessened if the killer had not had a gun. What about a car? Are you telling me he couldn’t have run down 32 people in his car? Are you telling me he was incapable of making an explosive device? Please, that’s a weak argument at best. As is the comparison to other countries (ones with MUCH lower populations and different pop. density).

I’m not at all concerned about the killer’s race. I’m not at all concerned about how he killed all of those innocent kids. All that matters to me is that 32 people are dead that shouldn’t be, and only ONE that should be dead, is. It’s a tragedy I can’t even imagine.

I don’t pretend to know the answers, all I know is that there isn’t one. Sometimes, for whatever reason, things like this happen. Instead of worrying about how it happened, or why it happened, perhaps we should be more concerned about the people whose lives it destroyed. Using this type of thing for any type of political discussion is just abhorrent. Sorry to be so bitter today, but this blog can go screw.

I’ll get back to you later.

By Mzzday

April 17, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

My heart aches for the victims, their families…and us. We are feeling very emotional about this horrific incident but lashing out at each other won’t change a thing. I come from a family of hunters. They kept their weapons in locked cases to keep the children from getting to them and since the thought of what could be done with those rifles and shotguns frightened me I never ever wanted to own a gun. The only time I touched one was when my grandma let me touch her unloaded pearl handled derranger, She lived on the south side of Chicago and always carried a gun. Now her little gun would be a joke against the fire power that many people now have access to. But if we all arm ourselves, what will happen? Every shadow we see could become a target. We could become a society of paranoid vigilantes. God, I shudder at the thought. Yet, I am seriously considering seeking arms. training. Even Amish children who keep to themselves and are not even involved in the rhetoric and garbage we are subjected to each day have been jolted by this insane violence. How can we be protected unless we protect ourselves?

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

V:

One of the FEW perks of Asperger’s. While I understand cognitively why people are so upset, and the VT community has my profound condolences, things like this either affect me FAR too much (Columbine, in a bad way) or not at all. For all the “normals” turing this into a race/ political issue, I would tend to agree with you…

By ABS

April 17, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

Just got back from a walk….nice day….

Mr. Liberty, I never said that you didn’t have the right to defend your life with a gun. I just said you don’t know anything about research. I tried your suggestion, and again, those aren’t very reliable sources. The scholarly articles say nothing about the association between owning a gun and lower crime (although I confess, I didn’t read all of them). On the other side…I could point you to just as much research that contradicts your theory.

But, I never said you didn’t have the right to own a gun. If that makes you feel better, then that’s fine with me.

I know lots of people who love guns…I’m just not one of them, I think they are the cause of much more harm than good…they cause many more problems than solutions.

I just happen to agree with folks like Michael Powell @12:53….that’s all. He kind of summed it up for me.

Jeff, your parents were like me? That makes me happy. That means they are super awesome! Although I’m not old enough to be your mother….I have two sons though…and if they decide later to have guns in their home….I hope they are responsible gun owners like you, Ed, and Mr. Liberty.

By kf

April 17, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

guns are bad. ‘bloodbath’ is a terrible word.

By Ryan

April 17, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

“Guns don’t kill people, people kill people” What a bunch of drivel. Drugs don’t kill people…cigarettes don’t kill people…The fact that this is the arguement of the people who support our right to bear arms speaks volumes on the intelligence and logical capabilities of that side. I have heard people from the “other” Georgia say that we should build a wall around Atlanta and let all the gangbangers kill themselves. I suggest the opposite. Build the wall alright, but them arm every citizen outside Atlanta and wait the 10-15 years you neo-cons will take to kill yourselves.

By Roger

April 17, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

I was a graduate student at UGA in the past five years and did some research on campus violence. Guess what? Campus police and administrations regularly suppress news of rapes and other campus violence, because they don’t want to hurt their reputations as a “safe campuses” and lose prospective students and donations. VT did the same; “isolated domestic incident” when a spurned boyfriend kills the girl and RA? It was more important to the university to suppress the truth than to save the lives of unsuspecting students. Twisted!

By sportygee

April 17, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Does anyone find it interesting that President Bush is on the campus of VA Tech in one day after the tragedy but couldn’t find his way to New Orleans after Katrina for more than a week?

I don’t think Kanye had it quite right. George Bush does not care about poor people.

Did he learn from his critics or is he there on his way to a fundraiser and VT made for a good photo op.

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

Sportygee:

You won’t like this, and it is completely off topic, but you brought it on yourself:

Jeff Foxworthy on the Dixie Chicks last night on the CMT Awards:

“I heard the Dixie Chicks song was pretty good. I wouldn’t know though, since I listen to COUNTRY radio..”

-it got a STANDING OVATION!

By Hotlanta

April 17, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

I wonder did rap music cause him to do this the same way that white folks blamed it for Imus making his comment or should the shooter take personal responsibility for his actions as well. Did yall hear how the govment has already approved funds if they need it whereas Katrina people are still waiting.

By G'Vegas Dawg

April 17, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

I knew that some Yahoo idiot was going to turn this in to some way to make Bush look bad. sportygee, you are that Yahoo. Is VT surrounded by water right now with a bunch of barbic people shooting each other? You are about as smart as Rosie…..idiot.

By karen

April 17, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

Set, everyone is entitled to their opinions and way of dealing but personally I think women are a hell of a lot stronger than you give us credit for. Praying may not work for you, but having some spirituality and faith during times like like this would not do you any harm. I have seen and experienced plenty of sadness and problems in my life also. We all have crosses to bear - My point was that arguing over race, gun control, etc, etc is not the most important thing today. Sometimes it is good to reflect and leave other issues for future discussion. And trust me, I do not reside in any euphoria.

By honest_abe

April 17, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

hotlanta go back into your cave or someplace far from here. nobody appreciates your ignorant comments. i feel for those that know you and have to deal with your extremely low intelligence level. moron.

By honest_abe

April 17, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

g’vegas dawg: stop being such an apologist. there is no excuse for the president of the united states to have not gotten on the ground in new orleans sooner. none!

By VT Son

April 17, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

Black, White, Asian, Hispanic, one thing makes the tragedies have one thing in common.

Those who commit these crimes are GUTLESS COWARDS!

If you want to be brave, put your testicles against a Taser!

By ABS

April 17, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

Roger, Roger….so what…you were a graduate student and did some “research” on campus violence. What were your methods? Seriously, and it seems you have a certain bias there as well…two really important things in research.

Those same campus police and administrators are required by federal law to report all crimes on campuses, and publish their yearly crime statistics. All students, staff, and potential students receive that information. Yes, they may have not splashed every incident in the paper (thank God), but they certainly have to report it.

By ABS

April 17, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

Karen, please forgive me for blogging today….

But you said it…we all handle these types of situations differently…so if you don’t want to blog…then go away and pray.

I don’t think there is a person on this blog or anywhere in this country or the world for that matter that isn’t sickened and saddened by what happened yesterday….

By cc

April 17, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

I may have missed something as I was switching services yesterday and did not have access to TV or internet during the day. I’m catching up after-the-fact and everything is so scattered.

Has there been any mention of the shooter’s family? I did read that he lived with his family lived in Centreville, VA in a white 2-story house … but has anyone made a statement or granted an interview? Did they see this (or something) coming?

As far as news reports and opinions go, I’m much more interested in the shooter’s family as their insight may be the key to preventing something like this from happening again. It is not a college professor’s or even a school administrator’s ultimate responsibility to find and fix all the troubled students. It is, however, a parent’s responsibility to do so when it is their own child.

Granted, he was an adult, but apparently not on his own yet.

If the media must dig (and well, we know they must) let them find out what the parents knew or saw - Was he always silent or was this a recent trend? Did he have friends at any time? What can they share that can help us protect our children?

In there is the only news story I find helpful. To me, anything else is just drama, and should be turned off while the families cope with this hideous nightmare.

By OldSchool

April 17, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

As for myownself, I will probably look at folks and their actions around me a little differently. I will likely be more aware of what is going on in my periferal vision. I might not trust others so readily. I may find myself hesitating before stepping into unknown or unusual situations…if I step at all. I will surely measure my words to avoid confrontation or hurt…

…for a little while at least.

But I promise each of you this…I will value those I love and those who love me more dearly everyday…and I will tell them so.

By Mzzday

April 17, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

“But I promise each of you this…I will value those I love and those who love me more dearly everyday…and I will tell them so.”

Thanks OldSchool. At the end of any day that is what we should all do.

By chanel

April 17, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

Why should this be a suprise, As I take a look at the blog someone is makeing a race issue out of this,

This city should not suprise me anymore everything here is a race issue!!!!!!

I will be so happy when i move away from here and live somewhere where people arenot caught up in the RACE issue!!!

By ABS

April 17, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

chanel, Calm down…guess what? That place doesn’t exist. There are racists everywhere.

Ummmm..in case you haven’t noticed…the race card died out a while ago.

Old School….you are right on, man. I hug and kiss my kids and tell them I love them (and my husband) every day before they trot off to school.

By ABS

April 17, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

I just saw some of the victims photos they had on the AJC home page…that’s really tough to see…and as cc said while ago…can you imagine the complete horror for the parents of this kid? I know that doesn’t compare in any way to the grief of the family and friends of those who died, but man, that would be hard to live with.

I wonder what ever happened to the parents (or even brothers and sisters)of those Columbine shooters…does anybody know?

By Educator

April 17, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

It’s odd how this type of tragedy seems to keep occurring in a country without very strict gun control.

Our POSITIVE thoughts and prayers should be directed towards the families and friends of the murdered.

Debate and argument should be directed toward our politicians.

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

ABS:

Kleibold and Harris’ families? I know nothing.

Their victims’ families? Most have moved on with their lives as best anyone can after losing an immediate relative. There are a couple that still show up in the speaking circles, mostly in the Christian arena.

By LC

April 17, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

I haven’t seen anyone place the blame on the right thing…how about the kid who did it? A 23 year old not being an adult? I’m pretty sure that makes you one.

By ABS

April 17, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

I just saw some of the victims photos they had on the AJC home page…that’s really tough to see…and as cc said while ago…can you imagine the complete horror for the parents of this kid? I know that doesn’t compare in any way to the grief of the family and friends of those who died, but man, that would be hard to live with.

I wonder what ever happened to the parents (or even brothers and sisters)of those Columbine shooters…does anybody know?

By azcat225

April 17, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

Random musings after reading the blogs here: Old School, thank you for bringing things back on point with your reminder of what is most important. I have a daughter at UGA and will be sending a son off to Columbia next fall, so the breaking news yesterday hit me like a sucker punch in the solar plexis. Karen, I too tell my wife every day I love her and close every phone conversation with my daughter the same way. Sons and fathers…well…you know how that goes. Dating myself here, but my immediate triggered memory wasn’t of Colombine but of the Univ of Texas tower shootings of so long ago. Eerily similar in a lot of respects but one; the impact Charles Whitman had on the country at that time was far more abrupt, more wrenching. Nothing, nothing had happened like that in the U.S. to that point (relying on dimming memories). Sadly, this tragedy falls into a long (and growing!) line that we seem to be growing more and more numb to, albeit slowly, but numbing nonetheless. Finally, I have never, ever seen the media move to fingerpointing as quickly as they did yesterday. One talking head had the gall to state that they weren’t “trying to second guess or hindsight the authorities” and then proceeded to blatantly do so. Adding a vacuous disclaimer at the beginning of an attack on some one does not make it any less of an attack. Pray for the victims, pray even more so for their loved ones left behind, and continue to do so for more than two or three days.

By Carl

April 17, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

Too many immigrants, too many gangs. Asian gangs are every where in the Atl, I wonder why he did not target any Asians?

By ABS

April 17, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

My computer just did something freaky….I didn’t mean to send that message again.

Jeff, I saw one of the Columbine victim’s brother on CNN last night. Of course, they had repeated themselves a hundred times and needed something to fill in, so they did a piece on this kid. I remembered him from all that because he was on television back then too. If I’m not mistaken, he was sitting under a table right next to a kid that got shot…then he found out later his sister was killed too. Geez…like you said, you go on the best you can.

It’s quitting time!!!!!! Yeah!!!!!

By WhyMe

April 17, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

Why is it that when Bush does anything at all, someone has to bash him? He goes to VT because a horrific thing has happened, and someone has to bash him because of Katrina. Folks, drop Katrina. You all seem to forget that not one government in the world could prepare for millions of people displaced. You all seem to forget that it wasn’t just one city, it was the entire Guif region (did you all forget about Mississippi? Sure, I knew you did). New Orleans just whined the most and pointed the fingers the most to take all the attention away from the graft and corruption of their own mistakes and how their own politicians screwed up so badly (lets not forget how for years the New Orleans mayor and council took the yearly Federal levee subsidies and used it for their own gains instead of shoring up repairing the levies then blamed the Feds when the levies broke), And most of all, you all seem to forget that that was then, Virginia Tech is now, and Bush is caring about them now and that is what we all need to care about.

QUIT BASHING PEOPLE WHEN THEY ARE DOING SOMETHING GOOD FOR OTHERS!!!

By honest_abe

April 17, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

carl: asian gangs are everywhere in the atl? hmmm i don’t know if i shoudl respond to such a stupid comment. bah. i guess i will. first of all the kid that committed the shooting wasn’t in a gang. he was deranged, depressed college student.

as for asian gangs there are no more asian gangs than there are white, black or latino gangs in the atl. knumbskull. with a name like carl i’m not surprised.

By Roswell Ed

April 17, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

I like the part where this loser shot himself in the head.

Too bad he didn’t put that 1st on his list.

Notice to all maladjusted freaks. Please drive yourself to the mourgue and end it in the parking lot. You will save everybody a lot of time and sorrow.

By King JEC IV

April 17, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

With all of this gun talk, I’m starting to see what our biggest problem is- neither side is really listening to the other. Both sides are making good points. Only responsible people should carry guns. Responsibility also entails making good judgment calls. Some Americans scare me with the poor decisions they make without a gun. Imagine some schmuck jumping to conclusions and firing his gun. That’s what the anti-gun people are saying to you. As a black male, I worry about some guy mistaking me for a criminal and shooting me. Case in point- One evening, I went to the movies with my father, cousin and my uncle. After leaving the movie, we noticed that a man had dropped his money. WE called out to him in an effort to return the money to him. Instead of stopping, he walked faster. Imagine if this guy had a gun, he may have pulled it on us. Or even worse, he may have shot all of us. I give this as an example to ask you this- are you responsible enough not to jump to conclusions like that? If the answer is yes, then by all means carry a gun.

By lamar

April 17, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

This should not be considered a nationally issue. People of all races are at fauult for this. We have good people from all parts of the world here. There are just as many bad americans here as other races. The world is made up as one race. Thats the human race. Until we stop and realize that the killings will go on and the suffering will continue

By SET

April 17, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this

This subject has been talked about at work today - another attorney I work with is just sending her son to an out-of-state college on a football scholarship. She studied the campus security when she toured it.

Our local Jr. College has made the connection between domestic violence/dating violence and most of the serious threats at school. Their police dept is directly contacted when an instructor or staff hears anything about DV involving student or staff. The police response has been getting more and more draconian over the years.

They’ve arrested people on and off campus for DV, stalking, child molesting (you can do this verbally or by guestures in CA!) and stat rape. They’ve served search warrants on people’s homes and tossed their houses when there is reason to do so. The College then ejects the bad actors administratively and they are criminally prosecuted and stuck with restraining orders.

If the bad actor doesn’t leave the object of their obsession/affection alone they really do time and felony time at that. Stalking in CA can result in being required to register as a sex offender for life.

Some people believe the DV laws are unreasonable they are so tough now. Me, I think it’s just a matter of a reaction to a problem. Government schools - colleges - with their own police forces, are taking all this very seriously.

I wonder what Dr decided to put a narcissistic, enraged, self-centered rejected Romeo on antidepressants? See if that medical file doesn’t get sanitized real fast.

By Mzzday

April 17, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

I feel tears forming. Think of this…we are at war in another country. And I know that our warriors are doing their best to watch each others backs as well as fight for the safety of this nation. We are the greatest country on earth, we are also a family. We fight and point and blame, but when our soldiers are in the trenches who cares about background? They are a band of brothers and sisters. Let’s mourn our “family members” that passed on the campus of VT and do our damnedest to watch out for each other. Every nut job out there is aware of what happened and I have no doubt that they are quietly watching. Be careful everyone…

By sportygee

April 17, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this

g dawg vegas or whatever you call yourself. Only a Bush apologist would blame the nearly 2000 people who were killed in the aftermath of Katrina on them.
You of course missed the point. How can you possibly find if ok for the President to continue his vacation and then go on to a fund raiser before even doing a flyover that devastation. However, 1 day after a tragedy involved college students at an affluent college, he could not get Air Force One’s wheels up fast enough.
The point was, did the President engage early because he learned the lessons of his inactions after Katrina or did he show up early because the victims were more to his liking. Surely, even in your ignorance you can see how this really does look bad for him to show up that quickly when he could not be bothered a 18 months ago. Why is 32 more important to him than 2000?

By Charles

April 17, 2007 7:07 PM | Link to this

I have been waiting to hear from hosts of the so-called African American radio stations in Atlanta and their conniving callers to explain how the secret, law of attraction, positive thinking, played a role in this tragedy. Accordingly to the reasoning of Oprah Winfrey, Rhonda Byrne, and others, these practically defenseless children at Virginia Tech are responsible for what happened to them. I haven’t heard from them in this regard.

Maybe they are talking about other world issues on the radio. It could be they are planning a journey; or they may have slept through it all. They might be cutting themselves with knives or maybe prophesying to themselves because of despair. Just maybe, they know should their God hear them speak on this issue, he will fire them on the spot and punish ruthlessly their conniving supporters.

We have not heard their voice or an answer how the secret played a role in this regard. According to their reasoning, people receive what they personally put out into the universe; the law of attraction.

The poor they recently said has determined their condition because of negative thinking and the decisions they have made in life. They say what ever condition the poor find themselves, it’s their own fault; the law of attraction.

Be it known to you evil doers, the poor have a God who is not silent. Our people have a God who answers when called upon. God answers by fire.

By doug

April 17, 2007 7:18 PM | Link to this

there is a solution to this problem long term but it it probably unlikely. the police should not release the name of the shooter to the media, everyone who knows the shooter should not leak the name to the media, everyone should not talk to the media about his history, everyone who knows about the suicide note should not talk to the media about it. talking to the media about this guy just encourages the next guy to do it, because he knows that people will read about it and give his grievance publicity.

By KA

April 17, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this

Chris, I would like to respond to your poorly thought out response today at 10:25am to my comment at 8:32am, and calling me an idiot, well that would be you, not me. The Virginia Tech campus is gun free, which means that it is illegal to possess a gun on campus, regardless of whether the weapon was legally purchased or not. The shooter lived on campus, so his possession was illegal. My point was that it’s too bad that VT is gun free, because someone in one of those classes could then have been carrying their legal gun and taken this murderer out before he murdered 32 people.

By Rob

April 17, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

“We are the greatest country on Earth” Where did you get that idea? What other country has these issues? Have you actually been to another country? No I didnt think so!

By SAD INDEED

April 17, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this

@ Rob

If you don’t like it here go to one of those gun/violence free countries. try not to express yourself too much when you get there, it may be unlawful.

By Rob

April 17, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this

And you know this first hand? I do, Ive lived in The US, Europe and Asia for equal amounts of time.

By Jeff

April 17, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

I have a theory, but more research is needed:

Look at a US map. Place every single school (K-16) shooting on this map.

Run a best fit line test.

It appears that the majority of these cases are on or near the same latitude line.

Probably has nothing to do with it, just thought it was interesting to note….

By KA

April 17, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this

Rob, America, love it or leave it, Delta is ready when you are.

By Rob

April 17, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this

Thank God!

By KA

April 18, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this

Jeff, Have you seen the TV show ‘Numbers’?

By jim d

April 18, 2007 8:21 AM | Link to this

As unfortunate and tragic as this incident is I just knew it would become an issue of gun control and I’m afraid I agree with the writings of Noah Webster when he wrote the following statements re: the 2nd amendment.

1) A people can never be deprived of their liberties, while they retain in their own hands, a power sufficient to any other power in the state.

2) Another source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any force that exists among the people, or which they can command; for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States.

By Jeff

April 18, 2007 8:31 AM | Link to this

KA:

Unfortunately, while I watched Season 1 (and own the DVD), I haven’t been able to watch it since… always involved in other things on Friday nights. (Though now I have a DVR….)

Did they do an episode on overall US school violence? I know that show is STEEPED in actual mathematics, so I would be very interested in any theories they developed, even if it went primarily to their storyline.

By KA

April 18, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this

Jeff, I have only seen a few episodes, so I don’t know, just thought it would be a show you would enjoy.

By jim d

April 18, 2007 8:56 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

You bring up a very thought provoking point.

I’ve long associated weather conditions and being cooped up for long periods (cabin fever), with violent incidents but have never really looked at the statistics. Do you know if any real studies have been conducted along these lines and if the results are available somewhere?

By Jeff

April 18, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

Never seen any studies that look at it from this angle. Guns, video games, music, parenting style, and a host of other factors, yes. (BTW: I haven’t seen conclusive evidence on ANY of the aforementioned factors.) Location/ weather type factors, never.

I don’t see weather as having that much to do with it though. I’ve seen attacks on sunny spring days (Columbine), cold snowy days (VT), early fall days (Paducah), and I’m not sure about the weather at Jonesboro, but I think it was at least partly sunny, temps in the 50-70 range. (Remember pants and tshirts, but not jackets. I could be wrong though.)

Like I said, I doubt the latitude factor has anything to do with it, I just think it is an interesting observation.

By jim d

April 18, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

Hmm,

Jeff you might find this article of interest.

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p010437.html

See there—you’ve caused me to learn something today. Thanks.

By WhyMe

April 18, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this

So, what I guess everyone would prefer is Bush to NOT go to VT, so they could say that “here he is, ignoring the families of the poor dead students like he ignored the people of Katrina” so they could bash him for that. He can’t win, no matter what he does.

By Jeff

April 18, 2007 9:32 AM | Link to this

jim:

Upon reading that article, let me make the following proposal based on its conclusions:

The latitude line from VT to Columbine (best fit) is roughly along the 36 - 37 line (when accounting for our own Heritage High incident). Could it be that this latitude represents the so-called “perfect storm” between the high temperatures of the South and the more disrupted circadian rythms of the North? And it IS interesting to note that most of the attacks I know of are near one of two yearly events: Beginning and Ending of school. (Fall and Spring, as noted in the article.)

By Andrew

April 18, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

Ismail Ax

Where is the coverage of that? It was written on his arm. A Google search returns this “Ibrahim and Ismail kept on calling people to worship Allah” Why will the press the press so tight lipped on this?

By Tisha

April 18, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

May God bless the families and friends of all that was lost and injured. You are in my thoughts and prayers….

By John P. Schreitmueller

April 18, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Beyond the Massacre at Virginia Tech: Of Tragedy and Resolute Leadership

The shooting has stopped. The news networks are analyzing. And an event that spanned but a few hours will be remembered forever, especially by those whose lives were touched by the violence on the Virginia Tech campus. At the end of the day, what we have left is really a leadership issue. And that is the hard part, because it requires us to look closely at what we have allowed.

It is up to us, those who control how and why we make a profit. Resolute leaders refuse dollars that come from violent video games. They say “no” to rap music and its poisonous message of hate, racism and violence. It’s time to take full accountability of the examples we set as leaders, and make those examples worth mirroring.

What if the Virginia Tech murderer had received different messages? What if his examples of right and wrong came from resolute leaders instead of defective personas? We can’t change what happened. We can influence what happens next.

[To read my whole posting:] (http://www.resoluteleadership.com/2007/04/17/beyond-the-massacre-at-virginia-tech/)

By Andrew

April 18, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

John P. Schreitmueller you forgot the responsibility of the parents.

And to violent video games, when I grew up we played ‘Cowboys and Indians’. I’ve never heard that it was too violent. We shot at each other with cap guns that looked real. Real enough that children have been shot by cops because of them. Low power bbs and match stick fights. Rock fights. Kill the man with the ball. Full contact football.

For the rap songs you are putting down, try listening to Johnny Cash. Go read some Shakespere. What about the final scene of Hamlet? By your argument that needs to be stricken from American cultute.

This kids parents were obviously as involved with raising him as they are now in the aftermath. Its not violent games and hip-hoppers, its two income households. Its mommy and daddy too busy looking at the Jones’s household to spend any time looking within their own household. How many times do we hear “but he was a good boy” from the parents only to find out that the last time either of them paid attention to their child was birth?

I don’t see how you can blame that on the President or any other leader. The leaders this kid should have looked up to are his parents.

By Charles

April 18, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this

We have been waiting to hear from hosts of the so-called African American radio stations in Atlanta and their conniving callers to explain how the secret, law of attraction, positive thinking, played a role in the tragedy at Virginia Tech. We are still waiting. According to the reasoning of Oprah Winfrey, Rhonda Byrne, and others, these practically defenseless students are responsible for what happened to them. We haven’t heard from them in this regard. We are patiently waiting for your explanation.

Maybe they are sensitive to the misfortune of the so-called rich, powerful. It could be they are planning a journey; or they may have slept through it all. They might be cutting themselves with knives or maybe prophesying to themselves because of despair. Those folks are probably too busy putting clownish colors in their hair, orange, red, yellow, blond, etc.; or putting earrings in the ears of their strange men. Just maybe, they know should their God hear them speak on this issue, men with influence, they would be fired on the spot and their conniving supporters, who are primarily from the North, would be ruthlessly punished.

We have not heard their voice or an answer how the secret played a role in this regard. According to their reasoning, people receive what they personally put out into the universe; the law of attraction.

These people are inordinately insensitive to the poor daily. Usually the poor does not fight back because they are too involved with immediate needs; food, shelter, paying bills, etc. They recently said people are poor because there is not enough positive thinking. These cowards say what ever condition the poor find themselves, it’s their own fault; the law of attraction.

Be it known to you evil doers; we are Christians. God does not respect the differences between rich and poor as some people do. Our God puts a difference between good and evil with consideration given to the intent of the heart.

By TO

April 18, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this

Rob,

Please don’t leave, we need more people like you willing to stand up to this insanity.

By Andrew

April 19, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

What is it about the muzzies that make them pray on school children? This is not the first school massacre carried out by one of these vermin. We will never forget the images of people fleeing the school in Beslan. We also routinely hear stories of how gunmen have kill a teacher and the women in a class. There were the girls that were burnt alive because they weren’t allowed to leave the school without their burkas. Why do we keep hearing about muzzies targeting schools? How much longer are we going to put up with this?

By MrLiberty

April 20, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

One armed teacher, one armed staff person, one armed student, and the entire incident might have ended so much sooner, with far fewer casualties.

Wishing the world was nicer doesn’t make it so. Providing the appropriate security through concealed carry laws is absolutely the right way to prepare for the unexpected.

The state has done everything it can to make all of your children potential victims - and you seem to be ok with that.

By Teacher

April 20, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

Mr. Liberty, I agree with you 100%. I just responded to Ted Nugent’s article on CNN and then came to this site. I’m a teacher, female, and a licensed gun owner. I WISH we were allowed to carry a gun, concealed and anonymously so as to not be a target of parents and gun control people, so we could protect children and adults from this type of thing. WE are the ones ON SITE WHEN it happens. The police have to have time to drive to the school and by then the tragedy has already happened.