Get Schooled

By jim d

April 16, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this

Poppy-c**.

Rules are rules. Color of skin has nothing to do with understanding and abiding by the rules. What next? shall we make murder, rape and other serious crimes misdemeanors for minorities.

What the hell are these folks thinking? Oh, I forgot! We’re talking about the GC-BOE. They have a long standing history of not thinking.

By jim d

April 16, 2007 8:20 AM | Link to this

Oh and Briddget,

If you want to discuss racial disparity within the GCPS system, how about telling your readers the percentage of minorities represented in Alvins offices and on the BOE.

By jim d

April 16, 2007 8:22 AM | Link to this

Don’t y’all just love the road NCLB is taking us down?

By Jeff

April 16, 2007 8:33 AM | Link to this

“Typical” offenses I have noticed by race (note that I have not had enough hispanic/ asians to draw a “typical” from - only about 10 or so, compared to the 200+ or so black/ white students I had in my teaching career):

Whites: Incessant talking, dress code (girls primarily). Only one ever threatened me, and once he was dealt with (he was a senior), he didn’t do it again.

Blacks: Fighting. dress code (equal violations among the sexes), contraband, threatening/ assault on teacher, drug-related activities. (To the tune of 6th graders putting chalk dust in rolled paper acting like it was a joint). The assaults/ threats I received were well documented on these blogs as they happened.

Among the reactions I noticed is that white students/ parents would typically accept the punishment and move on. They may think I “didn’t like them”, but typically they still obeyed my orders. Black students/ parents would claim I was racist and the behavior would get worse. (Note that in Randolph, the VAST majority of the parents were GREAT, and that is of BOTH races.) One memorable occassion in Newton happened about this time last year. I had written this same black kid up about 30 times by this point, asst principal was getting tired of dealing with him, and we had started calling home quite frequently. Mom comes to the school and tries to say we are BOTH (asst principal and I) racist - and he is black! Got to the point in that meeting where asst principal finally had to ask the mother to leave campus, as she was consistently denying her child had done anything and verbally abusing us both. Never had a reaction like that at ALL from white parents, though white parents would call my grading practices - admittedly draconian - “unfair”. (Note that in Randolph I had VERY few complaints about this, even though I did many of the same things in both systems as far as grading goes.)

As far as the racial divide question goes, I will say this: The divide isn’t that teachers won’t cut minority students slack. It is that minority students typically commit more egregious and violent acts and we are FORCED to send it to higher levels. When I had black teachers come into my class (particularly in Randolph), those teachers were often even more severe than I was, yet the students responded to them FAR sooner. I say that this goes to show more of a divide on the STUDENT side than the teacher.

By Jeff

April 16, 2007 8:35 AM | Link to this

jim:

regarding your first post:

AMEN!!!

By War Eagle

April 16, 2007 8:35 AM | Link to this

Here we go again. Are we now having a quota on penalties? Will the Majority please grow some BALLS or BREASTS and stop pandering to the minorities! If they do the crime they do the time. Can’t help it if WHITE kids are acting civil and the others are not. That is their culture and parenting. Enough with the oppressed BS! I’ve been oppressed for the 40 yrs that the Civil rights law came into effect. I have an idea-why don’t we kick the illegals out of America? Breaking and entering is a crime.

By Patrick

April 16, 2007 8:36 AM | Link to this

Common sense seems to cost more than gas nowadays. The reason why the majority of students punished are minorities is because THE MAJORITY OF THE STUDENT POPULATION ARE MINORITIES!!!

No school board needs to reevaluate their rules and regulations. Unless they intend to rethink what is considered a “deadly weapon” i.e. Tweety Bird keychain.

Is the school board doing this on a county-wide basis? I bet if they do it on an individual (that’s a word you leftists hate) basis, they might find that the schools with the highest discipline problems among minorities have a majority of their student count made up of minorities.

I agree with jim d. Rules are rules. If a white kid got into a fight or was caught with an inappropriate or illegal substance or object on school grounds, they’d face the same consequences.

When I was in 7th grade, I went to school in Rockdale County. I got into a fight with another boy during P.E. We were the same race. He didn’t get punished (I don’t think), but I had to serve three days in Alternative School. The other delinquents that were there were a mix of other ethnic backgrounds, and a couple others were same race as I am.

Research your school disciplinary history. You will find that white or caucasian students were punished just as equally as blacks or hispanics.

By jim d

April 16, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

I agree, and let me just add that many of the teachers I know in the GCPS’s bend over backwards when it comes to disciplining minority students for fear of being accused of any prejudices.

By Ernest

April 16, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

Taking the story at face value, it is reasonable to add greater clarity to the discipline policy so everyone has the same understanding as to what can be addressed by the local school and what is addressed by an expulsion panel. As we all know, some simply look at the statistics without attempting to ‘drill down’ and get a true understanding of the data. Right and wrong should not have a ‘color quota’ associated with it.

I personally could care less about the color of the student that compromises my child’s education. I would want them out of the class, especially if they are a repeated violator.

By jim d

April 16, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

I’d be interested in knowing what percentage of these paneled students were there due to gang activities.

Bridget, have you got those numbers?

By KA

April 16, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this

More admin meddling results in less teacher control of their classrooms, and who benefits by lowered disciplined behavior objectives?

By Janine

April 16, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

Bridget, the disciplinary measures to which you seem to be referring are suspensions and expulsions. Both of those are reserved certain egregious offenses. The notion that the race of the teacher plays a role in this is, imo, is absolutely preposterous. First, teachers do not decide which disciplinary measure will be applied. The teacher reports the offense and the administration/disciplinary hearing board decides on the penalty. If your question/implication is that the race of the teacher determines in some way when he/she will or will not report such flagrant disregard for rules, the answer is emphatically NO. On the other hand, there may be some degree of extra tolerance for minor first offenses, but more because of the student’s prior record and not because of race.

By V for Vendetta

April 16, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this

Wow, this one truly makes me want to puke. Is this how far back the step we’ve obviously taken in the wrong direction goes? Are we really this pathetic that we must debate the disparity between the punishments doled out to different races? Apparently the answer is yes, because if a school board as large as Gwinnett has nothing better to do, then I fear our pathetic national ranking will never change.

As an upper-middle class suburban school teacher, I think that the disparity is most obvious in areas like mine. That having been said, it means there is even less of a reason to do something like this. As I have said (numerous times) before, one of the most important lessons we are robbing kids of now is PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. This is something I find to be even more lacking in the minority students. Their parental support system is absolutely pathetic, and honestly, has no reason to be so. There is no real poverty in my district, there are no people living paycheck to paycheck, there are no people wondering where their next meal is coming from. Yet, the actions of many of the minortiy students (and their parents) reflect no such middle-class lifestyle. They come to school with a distinct thug mentality, they bring drugs, teen pregnancy, and fights into our halls, and they have a have a distinct distaste for authority.

If they would like to act like thugs, then I say we treat them like thugs. I have long fought for tougher discipline at my school and harsher punishments for those that break the rules, but if this is the direction that Georgia is going - led by its largest school district - then I say we better start enjoying being at the bottom of the rankings. Enjoy it, because we’re going to be down here for a long, LONG time.

By Janine

April 16, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

jimd@8:20 re: racial stats Gwinnett Co. administrative offices and BOE. Check out Dekalb. ANd it’s usually those educrats who sit on the panels that decide who gets expelled and suspended.

By jim d

April 16, 2007 9:32 AM | Link to this

Janine,

Thanks, but my comment was to attempt to get Bridget to post those numbers.

BOE = 0 minority members.

Alvins staff I believe will also be single digit numbers represented in percentages. Do a bit of research and you’ll find the minorities on his staff screw up big time on a regular basis and still maintain his support just to keep the feds off his back re; hiring practices.

By Former Teacher

April 16, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

As a African-American male and former middle school teacher, I will say there is a disparity, but the disparity is from the TEACHERS (plenty of studies have been done on this idea).

African American teachers are less likely to report discipline problems to administrators and choose to handle them in their own way. Is this the best solution? Probably not.

When I practiced this, it was to establish my role as the disciplinarian and leave the administrators as last resorts. Consequently, I had less problems in the classroom than most of my colleagues.

I am fully aware of the value my race and gender had in the classroom, so I know I am speaking from a specific viewpoint that most teachers aren’t afforded.

My suggestion would be to not change the policy because of race. Inappropriate behavior should not be allowed, regardless of race. Showing “slack” would only change the numbers not the behavior.

By RH

April 16, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

At one point, can I turn around and sue or government for descrimination, since my race (white) is protected by the constitution.

By fer

April 16, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Like I always told my students: Behavior has no color. How could it possibly help the misbehaving students or the school systems to lower expectations? In my opinion, they should raise the expectations. Of course that’s one reason I retired as soon as I could.

By WHAT?

April 16, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

If parents do not care about eduaction or it is just not important to them, you can forget the child performing in school. The shame of it all is that students that do not value education hold back the ones that do. It seems there is a GROWING trend that Education is just not important among majority of black students.

By clearthinking

April 16, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Sounds crazy, but we are about to hit a time where white people are going to start marching and sueing over being descriminated against. We are at that point.

By Jesse's Girl

April 16, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this

What a load of bull shi!!!!!! If students are breaking the rules…rules serious enough to warrant a serious punishment, then the race of the student should have zero to do with it. If my white child were acting out and disregarding the rules of his/her school…then you’d better believe I would stand behind any punishment handed down. Its called taking responsibility for your actions! This is simply the disciplinary version of dumbing down the curriculum. We cannot change the standards for a particular group of people simply because that group of people has trouble following and living up them! I would like to think the parents of these students are outraged. I would certainly take this as a slap in the face and a visceral insult.

By Zip it up

April 16, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

Disproportionately crime committing minorities is your answer. Blacks commit crime at a much higher percentage than do other groups. Why? Many answers, but the other students should not suffer due to one groups inability to prosper in a civilized society.

Blacks need discipline, many are not getting any at home or in their communities. And when they are criticized for their failings they always play the race card.

What do you expect from the creators of the nappie headed hoe culture?

By V for Vendetta

April 16, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

Zip it up, follow your own name’s advice.

Jim, I love that you pointed out the extreme “whiteness” of the Gwinnett board, very true. They can be as white as they want in their ivory tower, but Gwinnett is a county that seems to WANT to be the next Dekalb (former “nice” county turned crap-hole). It seems that with every new idea the board comes up with to prevent that from happening, they are actually just accelerating the process. Are they really that far removed from reality? Are all those “doctors” really that blatantly stupid?

Wait, I already know the answer to that question.

By Quit whining

April 16, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

As a cultural group, African-Americans aren’t encouraged to take responsibility for anything. There is a pervasive message that everything is someone else’s fault, as a result of racism.

There is no coincidence that the culture that seriously discusses reparations for slavery has a high rate of children born out of wedlock, incarceration rates, violent crime rates, poverty, and school disciplinary actions.

By Jeff

April 16, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

V:

Blacks moving in doesn’t equate to a hrll hole. Blacks with a “thug/ nappy headed ho” mentality moving in DOES equate to a hrll hole. Note that by “nappy headed ho” mentality, I’m referring to the inherent reverse racism/ entitlement/ thought police attitudes exhibited by the Idiots Sharpton and Jackson during this whole trumped up “controversy”. (As, I think, was Zip…)

By SET

April 16, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

Boo Hoo. Blacks commit crimes at far greater rates than whites and asians and the “difference” is notable in childhood & puberty. An avg IQ of 85 and different hormone levels will do that.

And this is news? Of course the Black expulsion rate is higher. So is the Black institutionalization rate. There are ways to moderate this but they don’t include slacking off on discipline. When we had segregated schools, and upper class blacks ran those schools, & discipline was iron fisted. Once white guilt took over and integration was forced in the 1960s performance suffered.

Overall black aggression - especially that of the black males - can be channelled into money making endeavors. NBA and NFL comes to mind. Or policework. But you can’t get the students there if they are accostomed to running all over authority. Our public schools train blacks (male and female) to run over authority. This is a new development that did not occur prior 1960. Which is why widespread genuine progress stopped and was replaced with AA nonsense following that period. It didn’t help that the Federal Gov’t decided to pay the lowest class black women to produce bastards. (Diseugenics)

So when everyone has had enough of feral urban blacks maybe we will go back to things that worked. Which also don’t include the feminization of education. Black boys on the average grow up in a matriarcial society and are impaired when competing with, say, Irish and Hispanic candidates for those $100k cop/prison guard jobs in CA. At least give them iron fisted male authority figures in public schools. Goes for the girls also. The more experience they get with competent & take-no-prisoner male authority in school the more they may learn what to seek for a mate.

Maybe this is wishful thinking. At the rate we are going Blacks are going the way of the American Indian - they will be depopulated/dead and supplanted by Hispanics who do tend to have a patriarcal family structure.

The tale is best told by studying the mortality tables for the ethnics and noticing the trends for causes of death and aavg age of death. Urban Blacks now are on life support. One national disaster such as a great depression - or superinflation - and the life support will be pulled.

By Ms. Writer

April 16, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

Zip it up and others: Did you think that a country founded on the blood of others would be a successful endeavor? Did you think that years of slavery (I’m over it so don’t start with the blaming rhetoric) that continued into Jim Crow and other animal treatment by Whites towards Blacks would benefit Black people? DId you think that “giving” us freedom would make the issues of the past just go away? What you are experiencing is the after effect of years and years of degradation by your people. Now you don’t want to deal with it. It is called you reap what you sow - karma - whatever you want to call it. Do I think that the Black community needs work? Hell yes, I will be the first to say so - but you can’t help but see everything that is happening is the sour fruit from the tree called America.

By Charles Truitt

April 16, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

The reason that minority students make up 68% of those being disciplined ,although the percentage of minoroties is only 51% may be the same reason that Blacks and Hispanics make up about 80% of our total prison population in America and 99% of street gangs. Face the truth , if it weren’t for Blacks and Hispanics , we could close eight out of ten of the prisons in this country and street gangs would be a thing of the past. Doesn’t speak too highly of our minority communities does it ?

By Ms Writer

April 16, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Quit Whining - Whites have high abortion rates, divorce rates, your out of wedlock rates are also increasing - whites commit different types of crimes, but the crimes are committed - spare me.

By Chullato

April 16, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

Guys - Although I agree with most of your sentiments regarding changing discipline policy for a particular race, generalizations and discriminating views outside of the topic at hand does nothing end the problem or add to the discussion.

By clearthinking

April 16, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

Ms. Writer, if you think America is the sole purpose for holding you back and your race, move away from the sour fruit and start you life over. You have so many options to choose from b/c your race is flourishing in so many other areas…yeah right. America is your only chance b/c you can piggy back off someone else’s hard work. If I feel that something is holding me back, then I remove myself from it. What a thought?

By clearthinking

April 16, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

Ms Writer, I used to date someone like you (the sour apple and always the victim) and I moved away from them.

By Jeff

April 16, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Writer:

A lesson I learned in adolescence proves telling for the black community:

If you do not let go of your past, rest assured: it WILL destroy you.

The ONLY way to survive is to deal with things and adapt. Slavery/ Jim Crow are over. They were over LONG before my parents even MET, much less thought about having their first child (me). GET OVER IT! In Randolph, I worked with quite a few black people. Something I noticed: There were two that typified the older blacks to me, a man and a woman. The man abused his power as a way to get back at the whites that worked under him. The woman chose instead to work with the whites, as she knew that we CHOSE to come work in what we KNEW was a VASTLY majority black community. Yes, we had our differences, but especially in my later times there, we came to realize that we both wanted the same thing for those kids. With my age generation, I noticed even in my colleague a sense of the “nappy headed ho” culture, if not the thug culture. (She did in fact love the rap trash, but she also had class.) Note that while I noticed FEW older blacks with the thug/ nappy headed ho culture, from my peers down it was the ACCEPTED MAJORITY culture.

Think race relations are bad right now? I agree with the comment earlier: it is quite possible that a white backlash is on the horizon, and it could get down right NASTY before it gets better.

By Ms Writer

April 16, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Clearthinking - READ PLEASE I did not say that AMerica is holding the black race back..I said that the issues that are going are are directly related to historical issues… Me? I did not have to deal with poverty because three generations of my family have fought for this country and allowed the current generation including myself to prosper….I am clearly speaking about cause and effect…

By Al

April 16, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

As a Black male, I am growing more and more amazed at what the AJC allows to be posted here. As a professional, I am embarrased that something like this is allowed to go on. As an educator, I am discouraged by both sides of this argument. Sure, if you do the crime, you must do the time — race should have nothing to do with it. However, when we look at discipline numbers without looking at the root cause of the problems, we are wasting good time and money on bad data.

The other side of the argument seems to imply that only minority students commit aggregious acts. That is simply not true. I teach in a suburban middle school that is about 60% white. I find that many teachers make no attempt to handle the discpline of minority students on their own, they immediately send them to the administration. These same teachers will make multiple attempts to contact parents, stay exceptionally late or come exceptionally early to meet with parents, allow students to serve teacher-specific detention, send students to the counselors, and allow students to write essays, etc. when it comes to the majority students. For example, if Robert(black male) is caught horseplaying with friends, (other black males), he recieves a referral for fighting. If Brock(white male) announces in class that he refuses to do his classwork, and continually disrupts the classroom, he recieves a call to his parents and a visit to the counselor to “cool off.” Multiple referrals to administrators lead to referrals to hearing panels.

I have been teaching a few years, I consider myself educated (BS, MBA, M.Ed., and nearing completion of a Ed.D), and have done a great deal of research. It is time that educators start looking at the students as individuals to determine who they are and what actions indicate a problem. A loud, boisterous, black kid may not be as much of a threat as a timid, quiet, soft-spoken white kid - who may be planning a Columbine-style attack.

By clearthinking

April 16, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Ms Writer….you keep talking about this history of blood shed and wrong doing and slavery, but the white race is the majority of who are the trying to correct the issue. If the black race was actually trying to help itself and struggling to do so, then maybe you could have a valid point. But to sit back and sell crack and have babies and blame it on slavery and do absolutely nothing for yourself or your own family’s future, you have lost all credibility.

By Quit whining

April 16, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

Ms Writer, I could care less what happened up to this point in history, including yesterday. If you want to keep reliving the past like those pathetic flag obsessed fat Civil War reenactors, go for it. The rest of America is leaving you in the dust. We’re not suffering half as much as the black community.

Blacks kill whites, but they kill other blacks in far greater numbers. They sell drugs in their own communities to young black children. They raise their children to disrespect authority because of the nutty sour fruit thing that you’re ranting about. They show up for jobs late or not at all and end up getting fired. They abandon their kids.

Whether the rest of America is to blame makes no difference. African-Americans, like every other group, hold the key to their own destiny. If they would quit wanting America to make amends or stamp out racism, and just concentrate on what they need to be doing they’d get much farther.

But it’s much easier to wallow and blame others. Enjoy.

By Zip it up

April 16, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Ms. Writer, if you hate America so much (the one country where a number of blacks have been able to succeed) I have a one way boat ticket to Liberia in your name.

Your slave attitude is what is helping to hold blacks down.

By Ms Writer

April 16, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Jeff:

I agree with you…I do think that both blacks and whites should get over the past. Noone in my family mentions slavery or Jim Crow on any regular basis. I also stated that I am not excusing the issues of the black community…I don’t at all and I think that some of the issues are unacceptable and not related to the past. I want the whites on here to realize that most black people want the same things that they want, a prosperous life and family…

By Jesse's Girl

April 16, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

This could be a never-ending discussion. However, the problem at hand is this…..is it not a disservice to ANY group of people to alter the rules because they are deemed too inept to follow them? This insults me! Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Whites…what have you….are all students in the same schools. They must ALL be made to follow the same rules and accept the same punishments. Every student has the capacity to succeed. But if their community counts them as unable to conform….then they will continue to behave ridiculously. Talk about reaping what you sow.

By John

April 16, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Al, your comments are so racist and you don’t even realize it.

By love jones 4

April 16, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Why does the AJC love doing these type blogs — knowing the resulting racist comments that it will produce? You never really get any well-thought out analysis. And I see why some of the teachers are teachign high school and never progressed on to the college level or research. Put in more capable hands, those with more thought would have digested this topic and have concluded that when you hold for socioeconomic factors, it’s likely the disciplinary measures would be the same across races. The biggest behavorial problems can likely be tied to the makeup of the parents’ household and educational attainment. Being a black man, I would be the first to say we have a lot of problems in our communities and schools due to the fact of absent black males and the high number of single parent households. It’s a complex, deeply-rooted problem but it’s one the black community should never stop trying to address. But this is still the South! Where is the help from the white community — instead of “suburban, middle class teachers” looking down their noses, rigidly holding on to their stereotypes and not looking for solutions? This is an American problem — a legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. Integration just occured in 1970 in most Southern school systems. Equal access to jobs for African Americans only began then as well. I make no excuses and never have sought them but my parents were denied a chance at real education in the 1930s and only had fifth-grade educations — how can you expect them to have more when they had to walk 8 miles to school one way plus their parents (my grandparents) needed them to work menial and backbreaking jobs doing sharecropping work in a system that never allowed them to get ahead? Do you think I, who just turned 40, had/have equal footing with my white co-worker who is the same age but was afforeded the luxury of college-educated parents because there was no system in place to hold his parents back? No, I didn’t — he had a head start. But in most measurable ways, I have caught up with what same co-worker by attaining a college degree. Yet there are thousands of others who WERE affected by that denial of education and jobs and their educational attainment/lifestyle/children are reflective of this and they are still bridging the gap. Historians will tell you that the 40 years after Jim Crow ended is but a blip of time to measure progress and that blacks are headed increasingly into the middle class in numbers that outstrip what you expect from a people denied full access to education/jobs for most of this country’s history. But generational change is still needed and I have no doubt it will come. But what we are stuck with is a huge American problem — regardless of colors. We need people to drop their biases and stereotypes, reach across White/Black/Hispanic neighborhoods and do all we can to advance the possibilies of all our youth. You can seek solutions and educate them now. Or pay for it later with taxes for prisons and other reformatory efforts that are rarely as good as money and effort spent in the front end. Hopefully, smarter minds than most of the ones I’ve read on this blog will be doing the thinking.

By Ms Writer

April 16, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

Zip it Up - As a matter of fact - I love this country and if you would actually READ instead of being combative, three generations of my family have served America - why do people believe that if you critique something that you hate it? Be mature. YOu can’t even have an intelligent debate without attempting to attack someone personally.

By Mick

April 16, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

this is getting so ridiculous, to the point where drastic measures are needed. for the next five years, anybody that mentions anything about race should receive an electric shock, and yes, just like in society, blacks will show that they need to be shocked more!

By Chullato

April 16, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

Quit Whining

Whites kill blacks, but they kill other whites in far greater numbers. They sell drugs in their own communities to young white children. They raise their children to disrespect authority because of the nutty sour fruit thing that you’re ranting about. They show up for jobs late or not at all and end up getting fired. They abandon their kids.

It’s true, whether its on the news or you believe it not to be.

By Ms Writer

April 16, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Jesse’s Girl - I agree with you. I think that discipline on the basis of race is idiotic. I think that they should have never stopped whipping kids in school anyway - the disrespect is ridiculous - I am young and advance degreed and you could not get me to fill out an application to be a teacher today.

By JustMe

April 16, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

I do not understand this. Rules are rules. Administrators should not bend the rules for any group. If they are bending the rules, that is the problem here!

Gwinnett County should not back off enforcing the rules to try to balance out some numbers. Gwinnett County should simply ensure that the rules are evenly enforced and then let the cards fall where they may!

By Cane

April 16, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

Most Black parents now a days know nothing about being a parent. They are young, quick to dump children off with grandparents or others so they can go to the club. They are afraid to step up to the challenge of raising a kid in a harsh environment. It is hard, but it can be done. It does not matter what percentage or how many black kids are acting up in your class. If the parents won’t parent then so be it.

By D

April 16, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

it’s sad to say, but the only chance we have to make real positive advances in race relations will only be able to happen after all the civils rights people have passed away, all the bitter, hate-filled, one-sided people like jackson, Sharpton, etc. they are perpetuating the bs of racism and over using the race/trump card. but a little note about slavery, before blacks had anything to complain about with America, the Egyptians were enslaving white people, the Romans were enslaving white people, the Barbary Pirates were raiding coastal towns in England and Ireland between the 1500s and the 1800s, we’ve all been slaves, we’ve all been abused at one time or another, in racism today, slavery should not, and is not an issue! it about something totally different, it’s about wanting special treatment and benefits that aren’t deserved. this mean ol’ world doesn’t owe any of us a damn thing! and the black community should be concerned with the next batch of white people, they are going to be extremely angry, apathetic to any needs of the black community and they are going to do something that is really gonna put this blame game to shame, they are gonna start uniting and standing together against this injustice, something white people don’t do much is stand together, but on this they eventually will, white people are starting feel besieged and are tired of getting blamed for things they don’t do, and for getting blamed for idiots like Imus. there will always be racists, so trying to erradicate them isn’t going to work, it’s only going to demonize the once great cause of true civil rights and equality, so ge the hell over it!

By Quit whining

April 16, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

Al, did you stop to consider that teachers give the white kids more latitude because of factors like Jeff’s post @ 8:33?

I’d be first to agree that black kids may get more harsh treatment for the same offenses. However, black America seems to concentrate on the unfairness of treatment—or the perception thereof—-instead of asking why the kid’s getting in trouble in the first place. That’s a culture-wide behavior that extends to arrests, job firings, etc.

You can try to change the behavior of the administration.

In reality, you can’t control anyone else’s actions, good, bad, or indifferent. You can change your own actions and perspective.

By Jeff

April 16, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Writer @ 10:55:

Agreed. That is why I find the thug/ nappy headed ho culture so sad. MOST parents of EITHER race that I have seen only want what is best for their kids. They WANT their kids to be well balanced, good, productive citizens that we can ALL be proud of. If I had a penny for every time I’ve heard “He got into the music and I don’t know how to stop him” or “I don’t know where it came from”, I’d be a billionaire. But I’m not even blaming blacks for that - even though it IS a cop out -, parenting is HARD no matter the race. One issue is that while whites give each other good, sound advice about parenting, blacks do not. Instead, a black parent is more likely to hear messages of give up or blame it on whitey.

By Jesse's Girl

April 16, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Amen! I remember the absolute FEAR a child had for getting sent to the office when I was in school. That paddle was evil! I say bring back spankings in school!! We could fill out cards for our kids much like the emergency contact forms we sign. ” In case of crazy a$$ kid and your lack of availabilty, please list all persons who have permission to come to school and spank your child”. That way, we won’t have a stranger disciplining our children. Being socially accepted is so very important to a child, of any age. If the embarrassment of physical punishment works to stabilize their behavior…then so be it.

By jim d

April 16, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Well said just me.

HOLY SMOKES!!

just me and jim d agree? Thats gotta be a first on this blog! :-)

By Mick

April 16, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

how would you like to use the race card in a card game, you have it, but your opponents don’t, a trump card that not only can be used once, but over and over as many times as you want to use it. does that sound like a fun game? does that sound like equality?

By SET

April 16, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

AL & Lover Jones4: Some of your points are typical of young, politically correct people who don’t get it.

You don’t get to silence people who think differently than you. You should be thanking AJC for providing a forum where you can read what no one will speak to your face - The Truth.

Most of the comments here are from people who have lived it - and there’s a lot of scholarly research - including research by blacks and other minorities such a John McWhorter, Thomas Sowell, Dinesh D’Souza and others about Black performance in schools and in society and economic life. And then there’s Charles Murray and his books - such as The Bell Curve.

If you can’t explain the rotten performance of public school blacks since the Great Society programs took off in the mid-1960’s all of your commenting about “racism” just brings laughter to me. And I’m black. And My family has been in education across the entire 20th century (both segregated and integrated).

And by the way, if you have not covered Charles Murray’s books you are not an educated person when it comes to US Educational Policy. If you don’t address the IQ ethnic distribution disparity you are in no position to address public education.

What has happened to blacks in the USA since 1965 is no different than herding Native Indians into reservations and setting up free liquor stores. And now the Feds are replacing blacks as service workers with millions of imported Mexicans, brought in and made citizens. This group will soon enough own CA government and congressional seats and FL also.

And I don’t mind saying so.

Understand this. Affirmative Action is dead. You haven’t had the funeral yet. The economy is turning harsh - if the government superinflates the currency and some economist believe is already happening, living standards will fall dramatically. Who will get the worst of this?

If we don’t reverse the indulgences given blacks and train them to survive in this Brave New World - there may not be any Blacks to speak of eventually. (kind of like black housekeepers in Los Angeles) Don’t believe for a moment the Mexicans will have any mercy whatsoever for urban blacks when they come to power. They have no White Guilt. And by the way, their avg IQ is believed to be 93. Combined with patiarchal culture and a rip-roaring fertility rate it won’t be but a generation or two more for this group to seize political power state by state.

It’s no longer white vs black.

By jim d

April 16, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

You may have over-generalized. My black freinds raise their kids pretty much the same way I’m raising my lilly white ones.And we do talk!

By dar

April 16, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

For the last thirteen years of my teaching career, I was the In-school Suspension teacher at a middle school. The last eleven of those years the principal was a black male. I am a white male.

The reason that more minority students are being disciplined than white students is that those minorities commit more offenses. It isn’t that the rules are designed against minorities. It’s that the expectations are equal for everybody and minorities aren’t measuring up.

Stop coddling these kids and hold them, and their parents, accountable for their behavior. No one wants these kids on the streets getting into trouble rather than being in a classroom and learning what they will need to know in order to survive in the (I hate this term) “real world”. Any one who worked in an industry would be fired for behaving like some of these kids do. But we expect schools to put up with them and their bad behavior and at the same time reach the goals established by such garbage as “No Child Left Behind”.

Minorities aside, these issues of discipline aren’t new. But the manner in which discipline issues are dealt with is the same old old.

As I have stated, no one wants these kids on the streets getting into trouble, but that should not be the problem for the schools. That is a problem for their parents and the police.

If you want the schools to teach, if you want the students to learn, including the minorities that want to learn, then you’ve got to create situations where that is possible and you (school boards, politicians, parents) aren’t doing that.

By concerned

April 16, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

As anyone will tell you there are three sides to the story. I am an attorney who has represented children in front of the school board. Where if a black child asks “why?,” they are talking back. If a white child asks why they are told.

I have had the pleasure of attending a predominately white school, where the children would set the desk on fire in front of the teachers. Drugs and alcohol were sold (but in their parent’s home). Fights happen at both schools, but if it was white they were handled locally and not sent as a referral to the school board. I have had a black child who was watching a fight, referred to the school board as being disruptive. Of course the other half of the school was also attending.

There is disparity in discipline at schools, like there is diparity in the incarceration rate. Whites are more likely to be sentenced to house arrest or a lesser time than blacks. Just compare Martha Stewart and Bill Campbell.

Also remember, blacks may fight and shoot eachother…but they have yet try to kill everyone in their entire school. Not saying the comparison is good. But the discipline problem with the children is not race, it is up bringing and where we are going as a society. The sentencing and reporting of the issues are race. It is more expected to see a black face on t.v. than white.

By Jeff

April 16, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

jim:

Ah, but I’m referring to the GENERAL black parent. There are many exceptions, but my generalization is based specifically on my experience in Randolph (and South GA in general) in an area where the majority of people are black and may have few few, if any, white friends.

By just asking

April 16, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

LoveJones and Ms Writer:
So are you saying that black students should not be held to the same discipline (and I guess, eventually, academic) standards that white and Asian children are held to because they are, through no fault of their own, culturally incapable of meeting those standards?

How can lowering expectations ever help a race or culture to rise above its past and succeed in a competitive world?

How can you seriously advocate such a destructive social policy for your children?

Self discipline and individual excellence are always the best deterrent to discrimination and the surest way to rise above one’s circumstances. Likewise, self pity is a certain path to failure.

You cannot use social policy to artifically construct individual excellence. The rest of the world can always recognize the real thing.

By jim d

April 16, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

Set,

Since we won’t be able to blame all the folks from south of the border in the near future, who do we blame next?

Mundo Nuevo Valiente

By Mick

April 16, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

guess what, after the beating we’ve been taking for decades, trust me, there is no such thing as ‘white guilt’ anymore, blacks have beaten that out of us, doing more harm to themselves along the way. it’s going to be real funny listening to a black person in coming years complain about how hard is to be a black person when none of them were born in the 60’s or before, it is a shame to see the gains of MLK so terribly squandered.

By Ms Writer

April 16, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Just asking: READ 11:02 post please

By OldSchool

April 16, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

This entire “discussion” hurts my heart.

I’m not the perfect teacher by any means but I try so hard to give all my students a chance to succeed. Granted, not all want to be drafters but I wish that they would just try to learn something. My course is one that is loaded with valuable skills any student can use later in life…if he or she will just make the effort.

Discipline in a classroom must begin inside the participants and yes, I’m including the teacher. I set the example. My biggest fault is being too easy on my discipline problems, but fortunately those are few and rather rare. I am more frustrated by students who will not even try to do minimally acceptable and think that’s okay.

It just plain hurts to see talent go untapped and unawakened.

Yes, I have problem students and yes, I’ve been threatened. Still there are those who turn themselves around and keep me coming back each year. I’m really pretty lucky.

By makes sense

April 16, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

you will always be judged by past behavior, and because of that, black people should take responsibility for many of the opinions others have of them. people don’t just wake up one day and start thinking ‘black people sure have a big chip on their shoulder’ or ‘black people sure are ready to blame others a lot’, no, that kind of thing is learned just by simply watching.

By luvs2teach

April 16, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

We are done with the CRCT and waiting to change classes. I mentioned this article to my EXTREMELY diverse class. One of my AfAm kids said it’s because “we’re not ‘bouge’” - which means stuck up according to him - I asked him to clarify and he said “we’re just different.”

Racist teachers came up, but most kids agreed that racist teachers don’t tend to work in diverse schools - why would they want to help that which they dislike.

Another one of my African-students said that “we don’t don’t meet white people’s standards.” They are laughing hysterically as I type this. He also said the black students feel that they can’t be as good as white kids so they act the opposite to gain attention.

One of my Asian students said, “It starts with the parents, and from how they are disciplined. This affects the peer groups they choose and the peer groups influence their behavior.”

I asked them who they would be more likely to behave for, black or white teachers and another one said “teachers are teachers.”

From the mouths of babes…

By Quit whining

April 16, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

If an attorney is comparing Martha Stewart’s crimes and jail time to Bill Campbell, either you’re not a very good lawyer or just begging the question.

You want to compare them?

Whatever her crime, Martha voluntarily began serving her sentence before her appeal was through. She also reached a settlement on some of the charges where she didn’t admit guilt but still paid fines and agreed to other punishments.

Contrast that with Bill Campbell. This slug essentially forged a note blaming racism for his conviction and signed his dead mother’s name to it. All the charges against him are because “someone doesn’t like a black man in power”. Classic example of the African-American cultural denial of personal responsibility.

By Ed

April 16, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

This same ‘trend’ follows them outside of school and on to the streets, look at the prison poluations in Amercia. Perhaps if we didn’t treat some races with unequal and unfounded privledges based on the fact they’re a minorty, they’d learn earlier you can’t get by with crime and breaking rules at an earlier age. Old habits die hard.

By Susan

April 16, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

At the Gwinnett middle school where I teach, the opposite seems to be the case. Some of the faculty seems reluctant to discipline African-American students because then the parents/students “play the race card” and we are accused of picking on students because of their race. Some of the A-A staff seem to be overly protective of A-A students and don’t discipline the students when they should. The county needs to also look at the types of disciplinary incidents and see whether maybe the discipline is warranted because of different ways A-A students respond to teachers when they are corrected, etc. Often A-A students are much more beligerant than students who are white.

By D

April 16, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

From a metro teacher. It is an unfortunate reality that the majority of our signficant behavior issues are from “minorities.” I do not think teachers or administrators are unfair. If anything, in an effort not to appear racist, the children in question are given more slack. We have got to come uo with a better term than minority, given that no race is a majority any longer.

By Jeff

April 16, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Susan:

From my experience, your last statement is EXACTLY why teachers may send a black kid to the office when they wouldn’t a white kid… all in how the kid responds….

By just asking

April 16, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Ms Writer: Then I guess I’m confused. What is the point of your earlier post if not to make excuses for the behavior of black children in school?

Are you saying, “Yes, punish them, but feel guilty about it because its not their fault?”

You say you are young, so you might not have children yet; but as a parent, I can tell you that ambivalence and guilt lead to bad discipline. Children have to know that you BELIEVE their behavior is wrong, you KNOW they can do better, you will accept NO excuses, and you WILL punish them if they ever do it again.

And most importantly, mothers and fathers, like teachers and administrators, have to speak with one voice and act as one body concerning discipline.

Maybe you need to rethink one of your posts. Either we take ownership of our own behavior and our own path to success or we look around for someone else to blame and we fail. That is the only message we can send to our kids—of any race—if we want them to succeed.

By Chullato

April 16, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Are parents held liable for the actions of the children in school?

By Sagegirl

April 16, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

Here we go again… pandering to those who do not need to be pandered to. The school systems are getting played and aren’t smart enough to know it. They should grow a pair and stop taking crap off the whining parents that believe they’re owed something since the 1800’s, as they teach their children how to play the system and to be criminals. Treating people differently due to the color of their skin was against the law… or so I thought!

By makes sense

April 16, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

the way life is for blacks today, is mostly because of blacks. the responsibility for blacks, is with blacks. improvements can be made and racism can be diminished, not completely removed, but greatly diminished, but only through hard-working efforts by blacks, tolerance and reaching out by the black community to other communities, and by admitting mistakes that they have made towards others, but the ‘victim’ mentality will only help to continue the backward slide that blacks have created for themselves.

By Teacher Not For Long

April 16, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

I whole heartedly agree with Jesse’s Girl. I wish more parents had that mindset. I currently teach in a very urban school. It was by choice. This school has the lowest test scores and I thought I could make a difference. BUt I have been broken. Most of my kids do not wish to learn. It is social time for them. And those who do want an education are leaving the school. I can no longer handle the threats against my life, the phone messages are atrocious. I think it would totally blindside these kids to get spanked for their behaviour.

By Judi

April 16, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Amen to Jeff and to Jesses Girl. I am both a parent and a teacher. The majority of the world would not believe what goes on in the schools on a daily basis. Until blacks admit they have problems and their communities try to correct those problems, things are only going to get worse. And you and I as tax payers are having to pick up the tab. Not only on the educational front, but through their over use of the penal system as well.

By D

April 16, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

Dear Chullato, The answer to your question is, “No, NEVER!”

By Jeff

April 16, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

TNFL:

Welcome to my world!

If your degree wasn’t education, switch to your field.

If it was education, switch to SOME field. I’m pretty sure that Foxworthy’s Roof Tar in the Summer is FAR better than education!

By just a list

April 16, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

reginald denny tawanna brawley crystal gail mangum OJ jackson (hymietown) black panthers (aka ‘the KKK for black folks) louis farrakhan sharpton (‘those diamond peddling jews’) etc.

when the black community is truly ready for racial healing, truly ready to move forward together as Americans, when the things that they say about race are truly sincere….all this begins only when the black community is willing to openly and fairly address these issues and many others.

By Lynette

April 16, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

I was reared by a minority parent (American Indian)in a home where race or creed was never mentioned.
I have had more issues with African American students calling my daughter racial slurs than you can imagine, she is of white, hispanic and indian descent and appears white.
Children learn this at home period! I work eith several African Americans who will not even acknowledge a white muchless carry on a polite “good morning how are you” conversation.

By Hick from the sticks

April 16, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

It’s been so long since I chimed in.

Hello, all.

Let’s see…

An attempt to balance out the numbers? Yikes. When I was in Clayton County (seven years, fresh out of college) teaching English, one of the first things my students learned was not to cross the little bald-headed cracker in front of the room.

Most of them laughed. Not from disrespect, but because they had never heard a whitey refer to himself as a cracker. When they asked the reason for such self-deprication, I simply responded that white folks don’t seem to have their own strand of “race-offensive” terminology, so I was updating them on what’s new with the white folks.

We had a good laugh about it, rapport was established either through heart-to-heart talks on the porch of my trailer (jimd—pull back the hounds. :) I know how you feel about the “portable learning facilities”. ;) ), time spent perusing literature, and all points in between.

There was one thing my students learned at that school with regards to discipline: do not cross my path when it comes to classroom management. With regards to Truman, the buck not only stopped here, but was stomped, shredded, and set ablaze. As the majority of the school was black, I suppose I didn’t have time to consider the thoughts of the minority, as I was the minority at that school.

When I left to come to my current school, tears were shed, small gifts from co-workers, students, and parents were recieved. The parents would thank me for the job I did with their child, and I still hear from not only those past students, but the parents sometimes as well.

Now at my current school, my reputation precedes me. I meet parents (white, black, brown, purple, straight haired crackers, et cetera) who come to me with this exasperated look on their faces not knowing what to do with their own children. I offer my assistance, and, with the parent’s kind permission, the problem is resolved during the child’s tenure with me.

Discipline is discipline. Rules are rules. You screw up, it’s your mistake. Not the mistakes of the past, not the socio-economic past, present, and future. Just yours.

Simple enough?

By it's late in the 4th quarter

April 16, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

the game is almost over, blacks need to try some new tactics, the blame and manipulation is wearing thin, people are opening their eyes. I hope that when the tactics change that they change for the better, not more bs, not more blaming that awful white guy, the next strategy used by blacks should be the same one that they have been asking from everyone else, but if the black community decides more pressure, more blame, more hate, more punishment, than their credibility may be forever lost, they’ll look worse than the boy who cried wolf. blacks need to give to others the same thing that others gave them after the civil rights act, a chance.

By Rob Smith

April 16, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

Read about this firm advising Atlanta Public Schools on this Website. It is just shocking, Red Rock Global. Click on this link: http://redrockglobal.blogspot.com/

By Parents do not care today

April 16, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

I was taught not to be disrespectful by my parents. I was taught that education is important by my parents. I was taught that I am responsible for me by my parents. I was taught a work ethic by my parents.

By Ernest

April 16, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

Did everyone hear about the shootings at Va. Tech today? There were shootings at two locations on campus today with multiple fatalities. The exact number has not been confirmed at this time however they are saying about 21 people were killed. Seems there was another incident within the past year at this school. Sad state of affairs….

By This Blog . . .

April 16, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

This blog is evidence that nothing will change anytime soon. Just finger pointing and blaming whitey.

By Old Physics Teacher

April 16, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

From my perspective, a rural, poor, fourtysomething percent minority population, I have seen a reason for the disparity in discipline. I would walk down the hall and see two white kids holding hands and rubbing up against each other. I would approach them, separate their hands and tell them that was inappropriate. They would look me in the face, then look down, and then say, “We’re sorry. It won’t happen again.” I had a choice: either take them to the office and spend 15 minutes filling out a discipline referral, or go on about my business. Which one do you think I picked - duh!

When I would walk up on two black kids hugging on eahc other, I would ask them to separate. What I would get from them was, “Why are you picking on me?” or some such other showing of an attitude. Once agin I had a choice: either to ignore it or spend the 15 minutes to write them up. Because of their attitude, they forced me to handle this differently than white kids. I was talking to my 9th grade class later about this. I told them that when they were disciplined by a teacher if they would just shut up and ap