Get Schooled

By Dick

April 5, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this

I think we are putting too much money into special ed myself.

By Jimmie Willis

April 5, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this

The problem is these separate but equal schools they got here in GA. When they started integrating the schools is when it got all messed up. Now there are drugs in the schools and it ain’t safe to walk around no more. They need to set up prison type schools for the inner city thugs and make them behave, not bring every one else down with them.Then you will see progress.

By Dick

April 5, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this

I would love for the state of Georgia tax payers to pay for my children to go to a private school. Now what, wanting to mess up and destroy private school sector. Our elcted officials both state and federal need to realize one thing——not all students can /want to learn.

By well

April 5, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

A system isn’t “broken” because some children’s brains are “specially developed” and they cannot read. When is some of the responsibility going to be transferred to the children? Some kids are born smart. Others, not smart. Are these crusading parents going to hold their child’s hand into adulthood? Call up their boss and be sure they’re being treated right?

Everybody is so PC now it is nauseating. Ever wonder why PRIVATE schools are so much better? Because they are private. They can exclude the riff raff. If they start letting in every dumb kid who comes along, then PRIVATE schools won’t be so wonderful.

They won’t be able to teach the regular kids, for “making accomodations” for the “special” kids.

If vouchers are allowed for private schools, then they will start catering to the lowest common denominator.

What will the bright kids do then? Weep?

By Jim in Marietta

April 5, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

Let’s beat this dead horse again. The public school system is not about educating children not even the “normal” kids let alone those with “learning disabilities.” It’s about growth and self preservation of the public school system. If you want your kids to be educated then take matters into your own hands. Don’t expect anything for your tax dollars in the way of meaningful education. By the way my kids didn’t read until they were about 10 or 11 years old. They were read to. When they did want and need to read on their own they became proficient in about six months time. Making the reading process take years is a complete fabrication of the PS system. It’s about money. Billions are spent on the next big thing in reading programs. We know, WE KNOW that kid’s abilities to learn develop at different rates and we still stuff them in age based class rooms. And THEN we label them LD when they can’t perform to grade level. It’s more than pathetic. It’s child abuse plain and simple. By the way, you can substitute any subject for “reading process” above and end up with the same results.

By SET

April 5, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

I agree that the taxpayers should not be paying the massive amounts of money per child that special ed now commands. But that’s only my vote. To the extent that the Special Ed schools are in place I expect them to produce reasonable results for the money they do take from taxpayers.

But then that’s how I feel about the ‘mainstream schools”.

As usual my Rx is to decentralize and deregulate the schools and make it clear that discipline is a priority above all others. Perhaps we should eliminate the school board’s authority over policy and give that to an elected superintendant - the way we have an elected sheriff as an autocrat with a county board of supervisors who can set the budget at large byt not tell the sheriff how to spend the budget he receives. (Not directly, anyway.)

Afterwards if the kids can’t read or behave we go elect a new school super.

By Dick

April 5, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

My elected state official had better not vote in favor of tax payers sending kids to private school. I will take the time I spend n reading and campaign against him It is time to face it—-some kids are too lazy to put an effort forward in order to learn. How many hours per day do the kids in question play outside versus reading. Bet they can name all of the great basketball players.

By catlady

April 5, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

I feel sad to hear about children such as Sharon’s. I think special ed results are going to get a LOT worse as more inclusion is mandated but the state puts fewer and fewer special ed resources into it (the regular teacher handles it all). I also think the regular and gifted kids’ educational attainment will suffer markedly as a result of the inclusion model. The special ed lobby has been very powerful for very long, but unless the “regular” parents rise up and demand that THEIR children get a free and APPROPRIATE education, the schools will continue to go rapidly down the toilet. I see it as a plan, to make the public schools the schools of last resort for parents unable to pay for private education, or parents so uninvolved in their child’s life that they don’t care.

By thomas

April 5, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

When I read about the young man in Atlanta who had difficulties in reading, I was completely unmoved.

When I read Sharon Gruder’s story about the difficulties her daughter had in school, I am completely unmoved.

Why? * Because these stories are drudged up now, when a sickening politician (working in league with forces to destroy the public school system) brings up voucher legislation for special education students to go to private schools.*

Now let’s discuss reality: 1) Very FEW students will be accepted by private schools and those that are have minimal disabilities, such as LD or fake ones like ADHD. 2) Many SPED students come from lower income homes. These are the very groups of people who cannot get private schools to accept their “normal” child. 3) I am well aware that there are a few schools who cater to “special students”, BUT THEY ARE VERY FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. 4) If voucher legislation were to pass, what we would probably see is a few middle and upper middle parents get to move their kids to one of the existing schools that serve SPED students (like the Atlanta Speech School and The Howard School) on taxpayers dime. The rest of the SPED students (particularly the more severely disabled), would be locked out. 5) Some hustlers would then start a “school” for students with disablities or some of the lower end private schools might offer “SPED” in exchange for voucher money (charging higher tuition for these students, of course). Of course they would not teach these students any better than the public system, and IN FACT WORSE, SINCE PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE NOT BOUND TO MOST OF THE LAWS AND REGULATIONS THAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS MUST FOLLOW. Think about the “tutoring” scandals we heard about (private tutoring services who got gobs of federal/state/county money to supposedly tutoring students from failing schools. In fact we later found out that many of these flyby night firms were shysters who did a worse job than the failing schools and in fact in some cases wasn’t tutoring at all, just getting paid).

Listen, we know that some kids are getting the education they deserve. WE KNOW THIS!! WE KNOW THIS!!! The problem I have is that the AJC (the rotten, stinking, establishment, propaganda rag it is) wants to dredge up SPED horror stories now, when it wants to see voucher legislation passed.

WHERE HAS THE AJC BEEN ALLLLLL THIS TIMMMMEEEE WHEN THOUSANDS OF SPED, REGULAR ED, ESOL, AND OTHER STUDENTS HAVE SHAFTED BY THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS OF GEORGIA??????

Regular readers of this blog know that teachers and other involved in the school system witness how some students are failed by the system on a daily basis. So called “regular” students who aren’t taught how to read. So called “regular” students who aren’t taught how to read. * *So called “regular” students who aren’t taught how to read. ** And this is in elementary school. And ain’t a d__n thing done about it. There is no private school for these children. Nothing is done. Nobody pays a price for this.

So when we even deal with so called regular children, children without “disabilties”, who weren’t behavior problems, didn’t have “ADHD” or make excuses (and blame others), who can’t read, then you can talk to me about SPED vouchers to private schools.

By mad mommy

April 5, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

My child’s first grade teacher started to give me articles on AD/HD. When I asked if she thought my child had it she said she was not allowed to say that to me but there might be a problem. I asked other teachers that knew my child and was told no. In second grade I was told no. In third grade the articles were again sent home. I asked for special ed testing because now I could see a writing problem. I was told then (five years ago) that the testing had to be done by the County school psychologist. I agreed and was told that there was only one for the county and we would have to wait. After a couple of monthes I asked if my child could be tested by a private psychologist and was told no it must be the county one. It took a year and a half to get the county to test my child. I had already had her diagnosed privately but the school would not accept the findings. They will only term it as a written expression problem and modify with an IEP. The time with waiting for the county would only allow the problem to get worse while waiting. The grades continue to go down and the child’s self esteem goes down right along with the grades. We actually had a teacher sarcastically (knowing what was trying to be done)ask my child in front of the class if my child could possibly go any slower. No amount of begging the school or the school board of education could get this done any earlier. Now the county accepts a private diagnosis but will still test themselves before acting on the diagnosis. We still have problems getting help from the schools. My child runs an A/B grade average in all other areas.

By Gail

April 5, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

This is why we needed IDEA in the first place. Why do people insist on believing that because kids are “not as smart” as other kids that they don’t deserve to be educated. I am appalled at the attitudes of some of the bloggers here today.

The fact of the matter is, there are some special ed students whose parents WILL have to “hold their child’s hand into adulthood” because they are disabled. Does that mean those children give up their right to make the most of their lives and to have the best life they can? I don’t think so.

And some of these children have normal or even higher intelligence and they are still not being educated by the public schools. I am lucky because my kid has had great teachers, but we (his parents) have worked many extra hours with him to keep him on grade level.

Maybe when you have walked a mile in my shoes, you will have a legitimate right to complain about special ed kids.

By Dick

April 5, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

Thomas, didn’t have cream with your coffee this morning?

By Dick

April 5, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

The article about the traffic jam at Six Flags is a prime example of what is wrong with our education system. How many of those children would get up at 5:00 AM to finish a book report, do a math problem, catch a bus for an educational field trip. Heck, how many of the parents would even attend a PTA meeting at 7:30 P.M. much less at 5:30 AM. Don’t have time for that, but find time for the children to play.It is all about priorities. Our govermental officials have taught parents and children, don’t worry, we will take care of you from the cradle to the grave. You don’t have to worry about a thing,other than remembering my name at election time. If you were to stop paying parents who have children labeled (many times labeled incorrectly) learning disabled, special ed you would be surprized how many can really learn. It is all about free $$$$$$$ from uncle sam. It is not teachers, nor educational sytems fault—it begins and ends at home

By danielle

April 5, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

I am a special education teacher. I can say that most parents are concerned for their kids. But at home, they let their kids do what the children want. Watch t.v., play outside, etc.. no set bedtime, no set rules or responsibilities. And no help with homework. SpEd teachers have so much stress and responsibilites because of No Child Left Behind and the Liabilities in the school systems, it’s hard to explain unless you have been there. We need the parents help. Remember, we get the kids only 6 hours a day.

By ladilovely

April 5, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

First the vouchers are for private schools for special education. We are not talking about your precious high price schools that spit out druggies and bulimina adults. This blog is about education so educate yourself about these private schools before you open you a** (mouth)

By thomas

April 5, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

Dick, Dick, Dick, you are good!!! I haven’t even had my coffee yet. Two, I think that Six Flags debacle is hillarious!!!!! You are so right about that.

I am so, so angry because of the things I have seen in school over the last two years. I have seen children failed through no fault of their own. They were failed before they reached fourth grade (I teach fourth grade).

EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS READING BLOG ON A REGULAR BASIS-

http://d-edreckoning.blogspot.com/

Lots of important news and data on reading instruction.

By the way, I do not believe that mad mommy’s child is SPED. This is the problem with SPED nowadays. It is filled with students who are not truly disabled, but are not straight A, perfect students who want special accommodations to compensate for that.

For the record, true SPED is the: 1) Blind 2) Deaf 3) Crippled 4) Retarded

See how simple that is. No fancy labels, terms, or jargon.

Everybody else (with the exception of behavior disordered kids) can be dealt with in the regular classroom. Seriously. They may need additional support, but teachers have done that for years. Parents must do their part to help their children and stop making excuses and blaming others. Who in the h__l told you that your child had to be a straight A student? Just because you live in the suburbs and drive a Land Rover does not make you special.

I am going to get that cup of coffee now.

By nel

April 5, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this

I have found that whenever a parent is told that their child has a particular “problem” they should listen, then do their own observations and research. With AD/ADHD (yes many of you think it is bogus but lets leave that opinion out for now) the presumption is that the child is not able to learn and if a child is very bright, then they don’t have a problem and is a “bad” child. Nothing is further than the truth, and for those of you who think that it bad parenting, you obviously don’t live with these children so it’s easy to throw stones. AD/ADHD children are either overly active (drumming fingers, fidgeting, gazing) or the quietst child in the classroom. Parents have to stop waiting for the system to tell them things and become proactive. You know your child, or should know your child better than the teachers, and that goes for the child who is truly spoiled and won’t listen to anyone, and the child who has a learning difference.

By TW

April 5, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Finch - “equal rights for everyone, priveledges for none.” At the root of this evil is the huge slice of the pie given the SPED kids a the cost of the rest. Sharon - please do keep your child out of public school, as the rest of the class is tired of being put on hold while the system bends over backwards for your little angel.

By greg

April 5, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

I guess I should not be suprised at the ignorance of Ms Gudger. This is a pathetic article, if you call it that. She is simply mad because her special child couldn’t learn to read. This system isn’t broken, however, if you start funneling kids to the private schools, then it will surely be destroyed. And if you really think the private schools can do a better job, then perhaps you need a voucher for yourself. Ms Gudger’s article above is so vague and has so many baseless & non-specific accusations, that I cannot even begin to address them all. However, there are some children that will NEVER learn to read. And the public educators are held to virtually impossible standards when it comes to passing these kids. What is “normal intelligence” that you refer to above, and what does that have to do with the child learning to read? You don’t even mention what problems your kid had- were they behavioral, intellectual, ADD, etc? There are hundreds of reasons he/she would be in special ed, and regardless of “normal intelligence” (on what scale?!) they still can’t learn to read, despite the world’s best IEP, teacher, school, etc. For a self-proclaimed “advocate”, you’ve got a lot of learning to do yourself.

By formerspedtchr

April 5, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Mr. Rogers used to sing about everyone being special…but jeez…every kid w/ ADHD (yes it’s real) does not have to have an IEP for OHI eligibility! And don’t even get me started on EBD students who are usually made, not born. We bend over backwards to accommodate these kids, when they are so disruptive. The teachers cannot fix in >6 hours a day what years and years of often bad parenting has developed. Sorry…but it’s true. AND everyone is a sped teacher now, whether they signed up to be or not, and that is so truly frustrating!!!

By Gail

April 5, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Thomas, Some of those parents are scared that their kids aren’t straight A students because of people like the ones on this blog that act like only the brightest students deserve an education. So if your choice is trying to fit the “straight A” mode or being labeled special ed, which would you pick?

By Tony

April 5, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

One of the things that disturbs me greatly about this blog is that so many participants take isolated incidents and extrapolate them to draw huge conclusions. In this case, the whole state of Georgia is failing to educate special education students. In every situation where I have worked, teachers pour their souls into working with children to teach them. In my current position, I see teachers bring about excellent results in teaching children. So this headline is utterly false!

One of the disturbing things I have seen in working with families to provide the best setting for a child is a refusal to acknowledge responsibilities for supporting the child - such as making sure homework is done and reading with the child every day. Another disturbing thing I have seen is that parents will make excuses for the child’s lack of work - the work is too hard, third graders shouldn’t be expected to write so much, or I wasn’t good in math and I do OK. These attitudes do more to hinder the child than anything else.

The proposal to fund private school vouchers for special education students is a very poor solution to the problem of getting a good education for all students. Besides, there is no empirical evidence supporting the idea that private schools do a better job than public schools when it comes to teaching children.

Finally, when communities do more to promote the importance of a good education for all students and hold students accountable for the standards we will see better results. Whether students are special education, regular education, or gifted, they should all be expected to perform at their very best. As long as we have parents and communities with mediocre expectations of their own children, we will continue to have mediocre results.

By teach overseas

April 5, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

Let’s remember again that public education is entitled to each child and is mandated to be “free and appropriate”. It is NOT the best education that money can possibly buy.

If you don’t like what is being offered at the public school, you have the right to go private. But just like parents of regular ed kids, you have to pay for it.

Having been overseas for many years, I can tell you first hand that special education is done best in America. No, it’s not perfect, but it’s by far and away the best out there.

I’m a teacher and a parent and I can tell you that if I had a child with special needs, I would be in a good public school district offering extra support at home. As was said by an earlier post- the teacher only has them for a few hours a day- the parent MUST offer support at home. (many out there only want to complain about what is not being done at the school)

And thomas- the private school with the highest number of documented special needs children is The Dalton School in NYC, very pricey elite school. So yes, private schools DO accept SPED kids.

By Lisa B.

April 5, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

I teach fourth grade. Ten years ago, the way reading was taught was much more effective than how it is taught today. We used to actually spend a lot of the school day reading. Kids read silently, I read to the class, we read class books as a whole group, and we read in small groups and pairs. My students sometimes read hundreds of books in a school year. They were required to read 30 minutes at home each night, and did it.

Now we talk about reading. We spend tons of time practicing CRCT test taking skills, reading short passages and answering multiple choice questions. We are told to drill, drill, drill. I fought “teaching to the test” for a long time, but finally caved in. I still get through a few class books each year now, but not nearly as many as I used to. The students rarely read at home anymore, and when I push it, parents complain that they don’t have time for 30 minutes of reading at night. I remember as a child, my parents reading to us every night. I learned as a child to read myself to sleep every night, and still do it.

Reading programs are even worse in the lower grades. Children hate to read. I never used to hear them say that. I love to read, and used to love teaching it. I was free to do whatever worked with my students. It is much harder now to fit everything in.

Politicians keep adding things to our school day, creating mandate after mandate. We literally race from one subject to the next with no breaks or recess. We take up precious time with ridiculous things like “Character Education,” and testing, testing, testing.

By Gail

April 5, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Tony — I agree with a lot of what you had to say. Parents do need to take more responsibility for their children’s education. And my kid is lucky because he has had some GREAT special ed teachers.

I think the system is the problem. Just like in regular ed, what is going on for special ed isn’t always working either. To Teach Overseas, if what we have is the best, that is a sad statement.

As a parent who has been in the trenches with special ed, let me tell you, it can be rough. We spend A LOT of time, energy and money making sure our kid’s needs are met. We need advocates like Sharon Gudger because of how hard it is, especially for the intimidated and uneducated parents. Oftentimes, they don’t get squat. And their children suffer for it.

By HS Teacher Too

April 5, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

Sharon,

Policy debates aside, I am curious as to what services the public schools in question implemented to help teach your daughter to read. I don’t care about an IEP or accountability — I care about what they actually DID in an effort or efforts to help your daughter.

I have seen many students “coded,” often correctly, and they have piles of paperwork promising accomodations, but at the end of the day if the accomodations themselves are not meaningful all the promises and paperwork in the world won’t matter.

So, in that sense, I agree that the system is often failing the children who truly need it. I don’t support vouchers as much as I support rolling up our sleeves and figuring out how to help these kids.

Here is an example. It’s not the best example, but I am trying to keep it general. I have had students who were dyslexic, which naturally affected their math performance. In addition to extra time to allow them to check and double-check their work and work slowly enough to try to avoid mistakes caused by their dyslexia, the students needed some “treatment/therapy” (for lack of a better word) for their condition to help them in general. Those types of services weren’t provided or even addressed in an IEP. So, the “accomodations” the kids got were band-aids, not working toward any solution. How does this help?! THIS is the kind of thing we can work toward fixing within special education, rather than throwing more money at the problem by saying “here’s a voucher, go to a school that already does this.” Unless it’s something profound, why can’t the public schools do it themselves?!

By mad mommy

April 5, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Thomas, I do not live in surburbia nor do I drive a land rover and I could care less about my child getting A’s. My child was diagnosed with dysgraphia. When my child was first diagnosed even google could not find anything about it - much less the school system. The only place I could find out anything was on N.O.R.D.-National Organization of Rare Diseases. Now if you google it you can get 218,000 results. In this case we were told that out of every 10 signals the brain sends the hand to write only about two go through to the hand. So when you are standing there with your child helping them to write their spelling words five times each and spelling them out loud over and over and they are not writing but crying “I’m trying” it is not because they are lazy but because they can’t. Now if that isn’t special education what would you call it? My child can read extremely well, excells at math but cannot write. In eighth grade my child HAS to past a writing test to go on to ninth grade. Even with an IEP it still must be passed to move on. I work with my child for as long as needed everyday and have for years and will continue to do so as long as it takes. My whole point is the time it took to get my child tested by the school system and not allowing private testing results be accpeted.

By Lisa B.

April 5, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

When I first began teaching, inclusion meant the SPED children joined my class for PE, Music, Art, and occassional science activities. I don’t think it helps SPED kids to be stuck in a regular classroom all day long. The SPED teachers race from class to class to spend a little time with their students. We have terrific SPED teachers in my school, who work very hard. I think our current format of inclusion works against all parties. This isn’t the fault of the students, or teachers. I believe change will only come about if parents demand it.

By #1bravesfan

April 5, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

My child has an IEP and has had one since Kindergarten. Through Kindergarten, 1st and part of 2nd he had additional help in the classroom. In 2nd he began leaving the classroom to go to a special class (Resource) because of his reading. He was and is an A/B student in everything else. I found that when he entered 4th and 5th grade, the Resource teacher, who was ready to retire, really didn’t push my son - she was a great person, but she had retirement on her mind. The goal, I thought, was to get SPED kids out of SPED back into a regular classroom. Well, it happened. With a new Resource teacher this year, who wasn’t ready to retire and actually gave a s—t, my son moved back to full inclusion, he’s in 5th grade. He has kept up with his work and is reading on grade level. He still needs extra help, in the form of private tutoring (which I pay for) and me, making sure he’s got all the materials he needs to complete homework assignments, etc. Back in the day (my day - I’m 40) the only kids that were in SPED were those with severe disabilities. All the other kids were in a regular classroom. Nobody seemed to have a problem with it then. And there sure wasn’t the money in the schools like there is now. WHERE IS THE $6000 PER KID ALOTTMENT GOING ANYWAY?!?

By luvs2teach

April 5, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

mad mommy - I assume you are talking about the 8th grade writing assessment? I teach 8th grade and that test DOES NOT need to be passed to be promoted to the 9th grade. If a child were in danger of retention, it would be considered, but it is not a determinant. The ELA portion of the CRCT doesn’t count towards retention either (only reading and math). Most high schools have a remedial reading and writing class that is offered to those who don’t pass the MGWA test.

By thomas

April 5, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

Students who are truly disabled have a permanent or long lasting condition that inhibits their ability to perform normal everyday activities (the blind or mentally retarded, for example). Disabled students do NEED accommodation.

Many students don’t suffered from dislexia, but distaughtia. Distaughtia is the result of being mistaught by a previous teacher. Distaughtia occurs in schools all over the country, in any grade level. Distaughtia is the most damaging in the earlier grades, when acquistion of basic skills is most crucial. Students who suffered from distaughtia need reteaching using the appropriate methods and pedagogy. Sadly, mostly students with distaughtia rarely get the treatment they require. Many fall through the cracks and some are inappropriately placed in SPED.

I know from personal experience of students who were perfectly normal (* and actually intelligent and perfectly capable of doing regular work*), but lacked discipline, self control, and study skills. They had parents who blamed the system and everybody else for any problems their children had (both academically and behaviorally). They fought and got their children ramrodded in SPED under the OHI category (ADHD). These children/parents gummed up the system with added paperwork (IEPs, etc.) and took up space in pullout resource classes. Teachers were assigned to work with these kids one-on-one (collaborative) in the regular classroom. Their work was modified (watered down). Standards, just for them, were lowered. Their grades padded. Why? Because their mothers wanted to blame the system, rather than take responsibility for their (and their children’s) actions.

You see ladies and gents, this is one of my soapbox issues. I could write a book. I could go on a crusade. These three issues: 1) The improper teaching of students in reading (and other areas) 2) The proliferation of deadbeats (nondisabled people) in SPED 3) The lack of true accountability of teachers/principals/school systems

I have so much evidence, both personal and from others, that demonstrates how the education system has failed our children. Until you are part of the system, from the inside, do you really see what goes on.

By Dick

April 5, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

Go back to the education you found in the 60’s and 70’s. Reading, writing, and rithmatic. Most school systems today will buy programs from vendors who promise the world. Programs written by whom—-teachers and administrators who could not cut the mustard (couldn’t teach and administer), so they became experts and wrote the saving program for schools. I say do away with NCLB, allow teahcers and local school systrems 100% control of their system. What works in Atlanta Ga will not work in South Ga.

By Blind Homer

April 5, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

The old school way, self-reliance, requires you to pay for your own private schooling. The new school way, socialist entitlement, should require a law mandating you stay in public school! They need the involvement of Sharon and Mad Mommy to help improve public school SPED for all the unfortunate children with uninvolved parents that otherwise would really be left behind.

By catlady

April 5, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

number 1 Brave—you have a good question. Where does the money go? I have seen it go for parapros for individual students, special behavioral consultants at $400 and up per day, and special assistance, such as speech therapy, vocational therapy, and physical therapy multiple times per week. Some of this is undoubtably paid by funds other than local/state ones, such as those provided by the federal government for handicapped kids. I am not saying any of this is bad, but the money really adds up quickly.

And yet, it gets harder and harder to place a child in a special program because of what seem to be arbitrary and capricious rules (such as whose results are accepted for testing the kids). We know the well runs dry at some point (money is not unlimited) but kids really needing special ed help in the coming years are going to find the going very, very difficult. We have children in our school who are quite obviously intellectually disabled but “passed” the one IQ test given by a few points and so they cannot get help. They were teacher-identified as needing help years earlier. Now, these kids won’t make it much longer. There will be more and more behavior problems, thus disrupting everyone’s education, and then they will get in trouble with the law or pregnant and drop out, thus costing taxpayers more.

I feel bothered about the other kids who are not getting much of a share of the pie. In our county that is any kid passing the CRCT and any gifted kid. It just seems like we are shortchanging the future adults who will be the most productive. Now, I am not saying some of the below average achieving kids cannot be “saved”, but I would sure like to see how many are, given how much money is spent on remediation. How many move permanently out of the “needs improvement” level on the CRCT or any real, valid test? If you have a child who fails the CRCT and does very poorly on the ITBS, for example, for 5 years running, do you continue throwing massive amounts of money doing the same old things for that child? We have kids who are EIP forever, who get small group, specialized additional instruction forever, but show no substantive improvement. Is it a better use of our limited resources to help the child plan for a life of a skilled worker in a technical field, and use the money for helping those students who are making it to do better? How much mediocrity are we willing to continue to pay for? Or are we trying to drive the “haves” and the “have mores” out of public education so we can talk about the people who are left—“those people”?

I look around at other countries, and it seems like their educational systems are much more “you gotta prove you can do it” situations than ours. Their students and parents are much more focused on making the grade. Here, it seems like we make excuses and give folks a license to fail over and over again, all under the guise of “giving folks a second chance” (for the 30th time).

By linda

April 5, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

Sharon, what did the private school do differently that helped your daughter learn to read? Did they use a different system - if so please advocate that to the public system so that all students can benefit. Was the environment somehow better? Maybe she was able to focus without behavioral distractions from other students? If so, that also needs to be available for public school students. Is it possible she was just more mature and her brain was finally ready to read? Not all kids are developmentally ready to read at age 6 and our public schools need to realize this also.

By Disgusted & Disenchanted

April 5, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Jimmy Willis & Well (early on in this blog) said it best! Someone later on made a comment about the system damaging a child’s “self-esteem” & there is the problem right in a nutshell. Because everyone is so concerned about kids’ “self-esteem”, we’re at the mercy of spoiled entitlement brats who know they can get away with murder because if a parent or teacher dares to discipline them, the brat can & WILL call HRS & have the aforementioned authority figure charged! Children do not deserve self-esteem! My generation grew up without it & we did just fine! If a child is retarded/slow/learning disabled but not severely enough that they can’t eventually get a simple menial job & at least be useful then yes, they should be in Sp. Ed but if they’re profoundly retarded & will only be a dredge on society, let their parents, who should have done the responsible thing & terminated the pregnancy, care for the useless little vegetable & not drain us taxpayers, thank you!

By Lulline

April 5, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

To all you clueless jerks out there, Special Ed has nothing to do with race/economy. Children are born with Down Syndrome, Cerebral Palsy and so on but that does not make them worthless. I’m sick and tired of the ones that run their mouth off when in fact your next child or relative may end up the same way. We have to make a better effort to educate these children better than what we are giving them because they can become functional adults. The Georgia school system is very bad and coming from NJ where taxes are high, you get a lot more services. All their 3 & 4yr olds are ecucated for free and before/after care is also free. They also have programs that promote special ed students to attend college for free as well. Remember, no-one has any control over the capablities we are given in life. Who in their right mind would say, I wish I was born Special Ed! IT IS AN AWFUL PLACE TO BE BUT IT IS NOT HOPELESS!!!! That said, i’ve got my gloves on, anyone dares to challenge me..

By HS Teacher Too

April 5, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Catlady —

I appreciate your comments and offer this example:

I taught at a school where one of our special needs students was profoundly disabled. He had a wheelchair that was more like an adult-sized infant carrier in the sense that he was almost lying down in it. He couldn’t hold his head up, or talk, or write, or in any common way function in a normal classroom. Yet, his parents took the school to court under the guise of “least restrictive environment,” because it was shown that he could listen and understand.

The end result was that this child had a $35,000/year special ed parapro who was paid to push him from class to class and take his notes for him. Read to him. Take him to the bathroom. Wipe his drool from his chin.

Teachers of this child had to create special tests so that he could answer them in multiple-choice format. I have no idea how he “worked out” his math.

As a human, I felt incredible sympathy for this child, for his family, and for the things he went through. Yet as a taxpayer, his presence in mainstreamed classes infuriated me. WHAT benefit was he receiving? Quite simply, he didn’t HAVE peers, no matter how cruel that may sound. There was no measurable benefit to putting him in these classes. But it cost outrageous amounts of money and time to give this child these “services,” and I question how they served ANYONE’s best interest.

So, the situation breaks down in two ways — students who need services that could be given and yet are not; and students who receive services that ought NOT be given and yet are. To my mind, this child’s least restrictive environment would have been a special school with personnel trained to handle this child, perhaps at a tuiton of $35,000 or more, but arguably a much better use of the money,for the child and for the taxpayers.

I don’t have the answer.

By linda

April 5, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

Sharon, those were not rhetorical questions in my earlier post. I am a teacher and we can’t help other students if we don’t know the mystery formula that the private school used. I’m glad it worked out for your daughter, but frankly that is worthless information if you don’t give us some details we can put to use. If we are using systems that don’t work then administrators should be held accountable to explain why they chose less useful materials/methods over something that has been proven to work.

Bridget, please help us obtain this information from Sharon. We need details!

By teacher

April 5, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

I’d love to know what programs private schools are using! Most public school teachers want the best for your students. Most schools push us to teach them at a higher level than they currently are. They check their progress weekly. Sadly, it is often the teacher’s progress that they are checking as though we aren’t real teachers. You are also facing a huge lack of sped teachers because the students can be a challenge, the parents can be a challenge, and the administration is running us out of the field with NCLB restrictions. Then you have new teachers who haven’t had training going into the classrooms through various programs designed just to get a warm body in their. If sped teachers were treated better and respected more, we could really focus on each child. Rather than worrying constantly about the administration or quitting.

By Still Disgusted...

April 5, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

No, Lullene, no child of mine would be born that defective because I believe in regular sonograms & nipping incipient problems in the bud. I will concede that you are right if you can come up with one reason why a vegetable can be of any use to society.

By Brett "the hitman" Hart

April 5, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

When I was in the third grade I could not read worth a damn. The school did not fix it. Boo F-ing Hoo. My parents did it. They made their stubborn little retard of a son sit down and read out loud to them. Day after day after day I was forced to read. If the school is not teach your special little retard as well as you like do it yourself. If your not willing to take some personal responsablity for your children you should not have had them. Bad parents lead to bad students.

By Brett "the hitman" Hart

April 5, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

When I was in the third grade I could not read worth a damn. The school did not fix it. Boo F-ing Hoo. My parents did it. They made their stubborn little retard of a son sit down and read out loud to them. Day after day after day I was forced to read. If the school is not teaching your special little retard as well as you like do it yourself. If your not willing to take some personal responsablity for your children you should not have had them. Bad parents lead to bad students.

By Brett "the hitman" Hart

April 5, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

I do make allowaces for children that are actually screwed up you know they can not help it if they have downs, the pals, or if they are tards. They need to be with special education but the state and other tax payers should not have to foot the bill.

By Dick

April 5, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

Disguisted and Disenchanted You are so right as to self esteem. My wife teaches at the Middle school in our district. One of the stupidist things mandated by local school board is no grade below 60 as it will hurt childs self esteem. If a child made 10, give him a 60, if he made 59 he gets a 60.

By calculitis "victim"

April 5, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

From what I can tell, there isn’t a “cure” for dysgraphia. Children struggle with many things and they must do the best they can and learn to cope. While I can understand some accommodations due to basic human understanding, I just don’t see how the teacher or school system should be held responsible for the situation. Are you going to have her diagnosed with “calculitis” when she struggles with calculus? My point is not everyone should be a straight A student and these irresponsible demands result in nothing but a lowering of standards for everyone. As a result America can’t supply business with skilled employees and must import foreigners with those skills. Good for them but tragic for us! We need to keep standards high and realize it is okay that every subject doesn’t come easily for every child. I’m sure your child has many skills that do come easily.

By Disgusted & Disenchanted

April 5, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

Oh, Brett is absolutely right, even if he DID belabour the point a bit, bless his heart! Someone had posted that kids hate to read. Yes, that’s true in most cases. A lot also is about parenting. When I was in kindergarten, my mom started taking me to the library & introducing me to childrens’ books, immediately & permanently instilling in me a lifelong love of reading. That could be very well why I have a good job & have never been unemployed, at least part of the reason. She also supplemented my disco & rock music diet with an appreciation of classical music & ballet. See, people? There is a difference between an enabling parent & a truly CARING parent.

By newbie

April 5, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

HST2 - You got it righter than anybody: In addition to extra time to allow them to check and double-check their work…, the students needed some “treatment/therapy” (for lack of a better word) for their condition to help them in general. Those types of services weren’t provided or even addressed in an IEP. So, the “accomodations” the kids got were band-aids, not working toward any solution.

This is the basic problem that I have seen as the parent of an LD student (LD is real). I have educated myself about her problems, and I am pretty aware of what “treatment/therapy” would help. Yet, I could get the school to provide it - I know it is expensive, because we have paid for it. It has helped. She is in college and doing well (after having been diagnosed by a school psychologist as mildly mentally retarded, it turned out her IQ is 136…) What the parents of kids like ours need is an honest answer as to what is preventing the schools from offering the right kind of help, not band-aid “accomodations”.

By Dianne

April 5, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

Jimmie Willis, schools were “messed up” long before integration—you just did not hear about white school problems simply because problems were kept undercover or just not talked about because the students involved were the “higher class” students, who were the banker’s daughter or mayor’s son.

You can ask any law enforcement officials or anyone else, for that matter, and they will tell you drugs did not wait until integration to appear in schools—they had been there for some time.

You speak of “prison-type schools for inner city thugs”. Being just as sarcastic and blatant as you are, I think maybe we need to have “prison-type” schools for suburban thugs that will teach them not to drink and drive and how to drive so as not to kill or injure themselves and others.

Sarcasm aside, I think the bottom line in the quality of education here in Georgia, rests with two sources: parents who must get involved with the educational processes of the children, a state school superintendent and state school board who will rethink back to basics.

By newbie

April 5, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Ooops - meant to say I could not get the school to provide it. And if anyone wants to know what worked for my kid (and my other one who dyslexia), I will be happy to share.

By erica

April 5, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Disgusted… now you need to remember that a lot of cerebral palsy kids have that problem because of birth complications that could not have been detected in an ultrasound. How would you handle that little snag? Have the baby killed a birth? Other kids have accidents that leave them retarded. Have them killed too? Come on!

Now, that said, I agree that it is truly ridiculous for the drooling kid in the “wheelabout crib” to be mainstreamed. If the kid can just listen but can’t ever hold a job, or talk or have friends or do anything other than screech and drool, then a parent or some other caregiver can just read the darn textbooks to him or her and spare the poor kid the humiliation of having his “classmates” stare at him when they should be learning something.

Also, in order that “little drooler” can be wheeled around and have his chin cleaned every day so his parents can get on with their lives free of charge, some other kid with an IQ of 160 who could one day find the cure to the disorder plaguing “little drooler” despises school after 10 years of being completely ignored at best and taunted and punished at worst……That kid, the kid that can actually change the world, finally gives up and drops out of school. What has our nation lost as a result?

But at least the drooling kid is having a good time. Well, we assume he is because we can’t ask him.

The kids that need the vouchers in this environment are the gifted kids. The only way any school is going to give a rip about gifted kids is if they have the power to leave. Then the schools will panic because they will lose their “slave” tutors.

By More Disgusted Than Ever..

April 5, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

Wow, Dick, I knew things were bad, but what you posted was appalling! I can really feel for your wife; how frustrating for her & how hard it must be getting for her to do her job properly…what’s particularly scary is our world is well on its way to being run by functional illiterates! When people die due to botched surgeries performed by these illiterates, oh well! At least the slackers were whisked through medical school with no damage to their precious SELF ESTEEM…

By Disgusted & Disenchanted

April 5, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately,Erica, some of these conditions can’t be detected in utero & yes, accidents happen after birth. Hopefully, the parents are willing to care for/foot the bills for the creature. Or how about using the things for medical research so that they at least can serve a viable purpose & not just take up space & valuable resources??

By The most disgusted of all

April 5, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Hey, as a parent of two public school gifted id’d kids who spend most of their day tutoring kids like Sharon’s (our guest blogger)… I’m all for giving the little darlings vouchers to get them the heck out of my kid’s class. My kids would like to spend a little time learning new things instead of teaching yours over and over again.

You know, I wouldn’t feel that way if teachers didn’t use and abuse the gifted and high achieving kids. They are constantly used at our school to teach the kids with learning problems. It’s a nice thing to do occasionally, but enough is enough.

If we could institute a little tracking then finally all children could be taught at their level by a teacher who knows how to deal with their learning style (or lack thereof).

I imagine that this will all come full circle in about 20-30 years, and my grandchildren will be properly tracked because the 90% of regular ed parents will finally rise up and say “ENOUGH!!!”

It’s really time for the tail to quit wagging the dog around here.

By luvs2teach

April 5, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

All these posts are just illustrating the depth, the frustrationsand the misunderstanding of the problem from all sides…

Like High School Teacher 2 - I don’t have an answer.

I have seen an extremely disruptive child (EBD)require a para (at a cost of about $18,000 - for this one child) to escort him from class to class because he couldn’t do that alone. While that may have been least restricitive for him, what about the children who were put at risk by his presence, if the para couldn’t handle him (not to mention the days the para was gone and had no sub). Who is advocating for those children?

I have seen another girl, epileptic as well as LD, inclusion classes, sit there and do nothing unless helped by the SPED teacher in my classroom - what about the other 7 SPED kids? They were on their own or had to wait for me. This same child BROKE HER ARM and we had no working number by which we could contact the parents. She regularly slept in class, telling us her parents let her stay up until all hours - SPED or bad parenting? Who’s advocating for this girl?

I have another child, been through the SST process TWICE! (a feat in and of itself) determined to be a “marginal learner” and yet parents don’t want her in special ed - the teachers have pushed for it, the parents said no. who is advocating for this child?

I had a child with Tourette’s, and yes, he blurted out all kinds of inappropriate things. While the kids did learn some “valuable lessons” in tolerance and diversity, we also spent a lot of time having class interupted.

By Erica

April 5, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

OMG… D&D…you are awful! I hope that something awful never happens to your children…However, if it does, at least we know that you will donate them for experimentation… Maybe the kid with the 160 IQ that I referred to can work on them, if he doesn’t drop out of school because he can’t take the boredom.

Watch out for lightning on the way home!

By HS Teacher Too

April 5, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Wow. Spring break sure has brought a whole new dynamic to this blog, withe the absence of some regulars and the addition of many new folks!

May I humbly request that we avoid getting into personal insults, and stick to to the topic at hand?

Many thanks, everyone! There are lots of great comments on here today, but there’s some sifting through rubbish as well, and that’s a shame.

By Disgusted & Disenchanted

April 5, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Oh!! And here’s another can of worms, along the same lines, though, that we’ve yet to open: What about American kids not being taught at their level because the classrooms are full of the verminous offspring of illegals, who refuse to learn our language & expose their aforementioned spawn to English?? (Dick, does your wife have to deal with that too?)Plus, American kids & the teachers are exposed to whatever diseases the illegals bring into the U.S, but we can save that for another blog!

By Disgusted & Disenchanted

April 5, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

In addition to being disgusted & disenchanted, I’m also sensible, practical & realistic enough to not be brainwashed by the current political correctness bandwagon trend. Absolutely, if the parents of a vegetable can do something to prevent it occurring to others, I say more power to them!

By Jeff

April 5, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

Dick:

Please say your wife works in Randolph County. I would HATE for that horse crap to be in place anywhere else… it was bad enough there!

Regarding functional illiterates: I have a coworker from India. We were talking yesterday, and she told me something very revealing:

Aliens on H1B visas MUST earn 60K or more per year or they will not be granted the visa. Go into your major companies and look how many internationals there are….

By Jim in Marietta

April 5, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

thomas, I’m with you. Kids with true disabilities need extra help. The ones that are mislabeled due to pushy parents wanting an IEP or the inept school system grow up believing something is wrong with them. The psychological damage compounds year after year, but I didn’t have to be inside the system to figure that out. I can see the result of it everyday. I see people that can’t be fixed because they were raised by a combination of moronic parents and the PS system.

You asked, “WHERE IS THE $6000 PER KID ALOTTMENT GOING ANYWAY?!?” The short answer is: It ain’t going to educating kids. Is there anybody on this board who truly believes it costs $6K per year or anything close to that to teach a kid the basic three Rs. It doesn’t take six years. It doesn’t take any special degrees. It doesn’t take an army of bureaucrats at each school. It’s pure fabrication. Like I said earlier the PS system is about self preservation and growth of the system not education.

By Dick

April 5, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

LIKE2TEACH. The students you referred to in your recent post are not being sent to school to learn but rather to use school system as baby sitting service. Parents feel while child is at school 7 hours a day, they don’t have to watch after them. Disgusted and Disenchanted-Yes wife has to put up with that as well as the great opening statement the school super made at first meeting of teachers each year. Super tells school facualty, staff and empployees “our goal this year is to do what ever we have to do to keep the parents happy”. Did anyone else here the chance of a successful school year hitting the back door? One thing teachers in our school system stay in trouble with is not contacting all parents/guardians of their students at least once per week. Try that with 133 sets of parents or guardians.

By Dick

April 5, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

Jeff; Sorry it is not Raldolph County, come further south.

By catlady

April 5, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

HS2—we have about a half dozen profoundly mentally handicapped children at our school. They are in the charge of 6 parapros (not paid well, but with benefits), a full time teacher, and every specialist known to humanity. Several of the children are sick a lot, but the parapros are there whether the children come or not. None of the children are ambulatory, none can feed themselves or are able to be toilet trained. Several cannot hold up their heads at all. They do some limited inclusion, and the best thing I can say is that our other children are desensitized to the fear folks often feel around profoundly handicapped kids. Also they don’t jump when someone starts screaming. But at what cost? I don’t know the answer. Oh, and the teacher has spent hundreds of hours documenting (with pictures) their progress.

The BD kids get no extra help. The LD/MID kids get some time (varies) with a special ed teacher during the day. The rest of the time they are included.

The flip side is the gifted kids, who get an hour and a half a week in a class of 10 or 12 with a special teacher.

The ESOL kids get 50 minutes with a special teacher, but that is about to change and they will be “served” in the regular classroom, where they will have to share the ESOL teacher with other students. Those who have exited ESOL fall under the regular program (no special programs) unless they fail the CRCT.

The kids who fail the CRCT get up to one and a half extra hours of instruction in reading and/or math a day on top of what they already get (with RF that is 1 hr 40 min to 2 hr 20 minutes a day). Plus after school tutoring free for 6 weeks before the CRCT (2 days a week) plus free summer school for a month.

Jimmy Joe, an average kid who has the misfortune of passing the CRCT, gets none of this unless he has a speech defect SO SEVERE he cannot be understood by anyone. Then he gets 20 minutes, usually twice a week.

So, how do we apportion the resources? I think it is obvious how we are apportioning them now, but does it make sense? What is the morally right thing to do?

By catlady

April 5, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Jim in Marietta, does PS mean Play Station? Cause that is what I see a lot of!

By Disgusted & Disenchanted

April 5, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

Ah, Dick, it just gets worse & worse…As intelligent & educated as your wife undoubtably is, her skills are being wasted as nothing more than a glorified babysitter. And every afternoon, when the students get home from school, the TV & computer take over the role of “babysitter”. No wonder why the world is in the shape it is…

By teach overseas

April 5, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

Parents demand their severe and profoundly disabled children be placed in regular education classrooms because it gives them the illusion that their child is not that bad off. If they are in the same 3rd grade as other 3rd graders, then they can think their child is somewhat like them.

It’s not about the kids- it’s about pacifying and pandering to needy parents. Luvs2teach is telling it like it is- multiply her experience by all the teachers in the state and you get an idea of how ineffective parenting can destroy all the good that special education can do. The teachers know it’s crap but the administration will not stand up to the parents (most of whom are threatening lawsuits) and just let the parents get what they want.

By Jim in Marietta

April 5, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

catlady,

Ha! Good one! It could except Sony isn’t nearly as diabolical as the Public School system.

By catlady

April 5, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

D and D—at our school 40% of the “venemous offspring of illegals” who are themselves overwhelmingly American citizens, are on Honor Roll, and routinely win the monthly “Star Student” awards school-wide. This is disproportionate to their 16% enrollment. It is the Johnny Bubbas and the Suzy Sissys that give us a tough time. Ask around and see from teachers how it is at your school. At ours, the teachers PREFER the children of illegals (as long as the parents haven’t been here so long they have been corrupted by us Americans) because the kids have drive and determination to learn (reinforced at home on a daily basis).

By Yolanda

April 5, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

I am appalled at Jimmie’s comment. As a teacher in Dekalb County, I can say that our discipline system is worthless. However, to say that integration is the cause of the downfall of GA’s education system is just plain ignorant. Furthermore, it doesn’t even have anything to do with the issue in the article. You obviously just wanted to get your dislike for black people off your chest. It’s sad to see that in this day and age, people still think in these terms. Bottom line is, thugs come in EVERY color. There are rude, disrecptful, and challenged children in EVERY race so what’s your point? If you have such a problem with integration, go dig a hole and jump in it. I will gladly shovel the dirt to bury you so you can live in a world all by yourself. Now, to the issue at hand. I do agree that GA’s Special Ed program is failing our children ( meaning every race). There are children in the program that don’t belong and there are children that belong that are not being serviced. I could go on and on about the lack of support teacher’s receive across the board. This lack of support trickles down to the students and it’s unfair. Now, what to do about it? I don’t know. The powers that be, do not listen and most of them have NEVER taught in a classroom. Their kids go to private schools. I encourage PARENTS to start speaking up and expressing their dislike of the situation. That is the best way to get things changed.

By Dick

April 5, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

Main thing that needs to be done to start correction of the educational system is to listen to some of the teachers, NOT administrators. Talk to those on the front line. An administrator is going to report what the board WANTS to hear. A teacher will report what is happening. It is time for the good ole boy network to fall to wayside, time for elected officals to be told Political correctness no more, time for the teachers to be allowed to do what they do and that is teach, teach, teach.

By catlady

April 5, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Jim in M—I really am having a bad reading day—I misread your post of Sony to read Sonny!

I do think it is true that lots of kids spend way to much time with Play Station and other drugs.

By Yolanda

April 5, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

I agree with Dick, the admin are puppets for the Scool Board, Super, etc. Everyone wants their school to look good so they often don’t report situations or issues b/c it makes them look bad or will be recorded as a negative. Also, I have a Special Ed student in my class who is violent, sleeps, and has frequent outbursts. Despite all this, I am held accountable for his grade performance and CRCT scores. I understand that I signed up for this job and I try to do my best with helping this child but when he acts out, his mom is unresponsive. She feels like he’s “special” so what do you want me to do. BE a PARENT. He should be punished, disciplined etc. when he disrupts class. The admin, do NOTHING when he has attacked me and other children in the class for no reason. They want to know did I do the strategies on his IEP ( which is a joke)It takes away from the other children in the class, especially the one’s who have need extra attention b/c they are low readers or math performers. This is when I feel like EVERYONE should NOT be included. Where do we draw the line? I can’t teach my class b/c everyday it’s WW3. I teach 2nd grade for goodness sakes, and everyday I have to protect myself and the other students from this one child who clearly does not belog in a regular classrroom. I feel like a high paid babysitter and even worse, I can’t give my students what they need and deserve b/c of this child. I have had to explain this to parents who want to know why this child is allowed to attack their children everyday. Like I said, I encourage my parents to storm the front office, the school system’s offices and raise h*ll. The powers that be do NOT care about these kids. It’s all politics!

By Yolanda

April 5, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

I agree with Dick, the admin are puppets for the Scool Board, Super, etc. Everyone wants their school to look good so they often don’t report situations or issues b/c it makes them look bad or will be recorded as a negative. Also, I have a Special Ed student in my class who is violent, sleeps, and has frequent outbursts. Despite all this, I am held accountable for his grade performance and CRCT scores. I understand that I signed up for this job and I try to do my best with helping this child but when he acts out, his mom is unresponsive. She feels like he’s “special” so what do you want me to do. BE a PARENT. He should be punished, disciplined etc. when he disrupts class. The admin, do NOTHING when he has attacked me and other children in the class for no reason. They want to know did I do the strategies on his IEP ( which is a joke)It takes away from the other children in the class, especially the one’s who have need extra attention b/c they are low readers or math performers. This is when I feel like EVERYONE should NOT be included. Where do we draw the line? I can’t teach my class b/c everyday it’s WW3. I teach 2nd grade for goodness sakes, and everyday I have to protect myself and the other students from this one child who clearly does not belog in a regular classrroom. I feel like a high paid babysitter and even worse, I can’t give my students what they need and deserve b/c of this child. I have had to explain this to parents who want to know why this child is allowed to attack their children everyday. Like I said, I encourage my parents to storm the front office, the school system’s offices and raise h*ll. The powers that be do NOT care about these kids. It’s all politics!

By Lulline

April 5, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Hey “Still Disgusted” not everyone is a cold heartless wretch like you! You are a disgracee to mankind. To suggest a child be taken of so they wouldn’t be born perfect is as immature and you can get. A child conceived is a blessing from god no matter what and only he knows what his/her purpose in life is. Maybe your parents should have gotton rid of you all those years ago because god knows the world does not need anymore trash polluting the planet! What are you contributing to the human race?? Do the rest of us a favor and stay out of this blog you wretch! Parents of special ed students don’t need to hear the trash that comes from you!!!!

By Zoe

April 5, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

For the parents of kids that are “Severe and Profound” think of the arrangements they would have to make if the school did not provide them “free and appropriate education.” Those parents would have to actually care for their children themselves. Isn’t it nice that the school will provide tens of thousands of dollars of free childcare a year? Also remember, the school system is responsible for them until they turn 21, not 18. Also, if they turn 21 during the school year (for example, 21 on August 15……) the school has to let them finish out the year. In addition, parents can usually send severe and profound kids to school earlier than other kids. With the “miracles” of modern medicine and the idea that every single premmie must be saved, we are only adding to the number of kids that need these services. Years ago, children like this did not survive. I wish parents would think about quality of life, do they really think a kid with an IQ of 35 has a great quality of life?

Also, parents seem to forgot, you can not coddle your kids forever. Unless of course, you want them to be living in your basement at 40. Special Education is not the way to make sure your kids are successful. Claiming a “fake” Sped aliment means money being taken from the kids that actually need it. Besides, all those modifications won’t mean jack when your kid flunks out of the first semester of college or gets fired from job after job because the kid is used to you interfering for him all the time.

By D&D

April 5, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

My, my, Lullene, looks like we failed our anger management class, hmm? Where the %$#% do you get off calling your betters “trash”? I happen to be a productive member of society with a good job. How ignorant to “think”(?!?!) that a drooling monstrosity with no brain is a precious gift. Would YOU enjoy feeding and diapering a hulking, violent 6’ man with the mentality of an infant? And a monster like that is a blessing?!?! No, something like that is a curse from Satan.

By D&D

April 5, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

Uh oh, careful what you say on here, Zoe! You & I know you’re right but Lullene & the rest of the “Pro-Retard Police” will take issue. But, I agree with you 100%. Also, when a teacher like Yolanda (on this blog) God forbid, is seriously injured or even worse, raped, by a 250-lb. 17 year old boy with the mind of a toddler, there won’t be a darn thing she can do about it. Also, there is a difference between a PARENT & an irresponsible breeder. The latter has no concept of the quality of life. All they care about is breeding, & forcing their defective idiot spawn on the rest of us, regardless of the consequences.

By Erica

April 5, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

You know, I find it pretty laughable that we have these special ed “advocates” (high maintenance parents) that have raised all kinds of H__l for decades and threatened to sue the whole world if their kids weren’t fully included in a mainstream classroom (where, if they are truly sped - they do not belong). Now, they have finally gotten their way, and low and behold, they are whining because their kids are not being “served.”

WELL….DUH…. your child is not being served because he is in a class with 27 or more other kids who are mainstream and the class is (or at least it used to be) designed to serve kids who can stay on grade level without assistance. Now it’s not designed to serve anyone - great job folks!

Sometimes I think these special ed parents must suffer from the same afflictions that affect their children.

Special ed was largely self contained for decades FOR A REASON. If you can’t operate on grade level without special services… well… you need to be in a situation where you can GET THOSE SERVICES TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT POSSIBLE. My kid tutoring your kid while the mainstream teacher spends the day chasing the EBD kid around the room is not going to get the job done for my kid, your kid or anyone else’s kid.

People need to accept that their kids are SPECIAL ED and adapt accordingly instead of insisting that, “If my kid isn’t on grade level… ain’t no one gonna be on grade level!” Sped kids (and the rest of the class that they are forced into) are being hurt by their selfish parents.

All of you litigious parents… Please, please, please, get the vouchers passed, take the vouchers and go away!

By Erica

April 5, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

D&D, you need to change your coffee mixture!

I am curious about you…. what do you do for a living? I really am curious. Also, I’d like to know what your contact with disabled kids has consisted of. I’m trying to figure out where you are getting your ideas.

By Lulline

April 5, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

Hey D&D I was talking to “you and only you”. You sound like you are one of Satan’s little helpers. I stand by what I said and to add to that you ARE TRASH!!!!!!!!

By catlady

April 5, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

In my experience, many parents of sp ed kids (especially MOid and Pid parents) are really angels in disguise. The unrelenting, unending pressure to care for their children, and the knowledge that after the parent dies, who will? is haunting. Now, I have also seen parents of severely handicapped children with a real entitlement mentality, too. But, IMHO, many of the other parents of less disabled children cannot wait to shift their children onto someone else. And many of them milk the system for all it is worth. The disability is an excuse for anything, including assault. That is wrong.

By formerspedtchr

April 5, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

For those not clear on the topic, here is a quick SPED for dummies summary:

ID=intellectually disabled. This kiddos can be mild (MID), moderate (MOID) or severe. They are born this way. Some have down’s syndrome, others have birth defects, while others look normal, just have very low IQ’s.

LD=learning disability. There is a gap between IQ and achievement. They should perform normally, but for some reason, don’t.

Autistic: These kids are born this way and can be mild (will be in regular classes), moderate, or severe. Mod and severe tend to be self contained.

Deaf/hard of hearing: hearing interfers with learning through normal modalities. May be self contained, resource, or inclusion…may or may not have interpreter, depending on many factors.

Blind: vision interfers with normal learning modalities.

EBD: emotional/behavior disorder. An emotional or behavior issues keeps student from participating in a regular educational setting. These kids may get resource help, be self contained, or may go to a psycho ed facility. It is my opinion that this HUGE group of kids are mislabeled: they should not be(for the most part) in sped; but should be disciplined and taught to behave. They are usually BAD, not EBD.

OHI other health impaired. This is the most frustrating exceptionality. A kid w/ ADD qualifies for this service—even one who the parents refuse to medicate. Now he has an IEP and he will pass, and disrupt school for everyone else along the way.

Special ed teachers are saints. NO ONE wants to see kids fail in school, but why on earth would someone want to put the special ed label on their kid instead of parenting him??? I’ve seen kids so ADD they cannot function; they need meds, but the parents refuse and put them in SPED instead. What are you thinking????

Sorry to ramble…this is such a frustrating topic. My point is (yes I had one) there is a huge difference between a kid born w/ a disability and a kid who disrupts school for whatever reason. We need to quit enabling kids to do less and less. However, it begins w/ the parents!!!

By erica

April 5, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this

formerspedteacher - And that is why we need to have the vouchers (I was initially opposed to them - but I had an epiphany). The ones with the biggest entitlement mentalities and who cannot be made happy unless their kids are made royalty are the ones who will be more likely to leave so they can feel more ever more important at a private school.

Fewer high maintenance, dysfuncuntional sped parents (not all are high maintenance - but many are) means less stressed out teachers…. means my kids can get on with their education.

There just needs to be a rule that once you leave, you can’t come back!!!

By catlady

April 5, 2007 6:41 PM | Link to this

erica, there will never be a rule about not coming back. In fact, I would doubt our legislators would agree to a rule that says you have to stay with your choice for the rest of the school year. No matter what havoc that causes!

I also don’t think a lot of the high maintenance (and not) parents would leave. It is too easy to just put the kid on the bus, and not worry till the end of the day. If it takes providing transportation, no federally-sponsored breakfast and lunch, no liberal policies for discipline, and paying market wages for after school care, not a lot of parents are going to go for it, IMHO.

There are kids who would benefit by private education. These kids are sp ed and not sp ed. I would benefit by having a newer car, nicer clothes, a solar-electric house, and numerous other things, BUT I CAN’T AFFORD IT. (I am a teacher.) :)

If teachers could choose who gets the vouchers for sp ed, or even the exceptionalities who would be eligible, I would go for it. Until then, I have a hard time supporting it. It might be fun to watch, however, if the state DID implement it on a trial basis for a couple of years, just to see what would happen. I think our legislators would be taken to the woodshed afterward. Unlike HOPE, it would need accountability and independent research from the get-go, and lots more educator input than the legislature has so far been willing to solicit.

By luvs2teach

April 5, 2007 6:52 PM | Link to this

catlady and erica - this is one of the few areas where I WOULD like to see vouchers. Properly implemented (aye, there’s the rub) it could both save money and improve education for SPED and GenEd.

Schools could specialize in the serving the special ed population, and we wouldn’t need to have personal parapros, and teachers jumping through hoops to get qualified in every subject, and in a private school setting, maybe, just maybe support personnel for the reams of paperwork could be provided.

Then again, it could end up being as successful as the “private tutoring” offered by schools that don’t make AYP.

By alice

April 5, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this

Catlady

The original bill (it has since been amended) had no accountability, but students COULD NOT return mid-year. Now, there is accounability, pre-tests and post-tests, but students are still out for the year.

I have friends, who were solidly middle-class not independently wealthy, who have upped and moved across the country to get their kids the kind of services they need — both public and private.

There is some accountability on parents’ part too and simply relying on the gov’t to help your child isn’t responsible, especially if it isn’t working. You owe your child more than that.

Private schools won’t be miracles and many of my friends have said that their private schools have already said that they won’t be accepting these vouchers because of their fear of behavior issues.

By catlady

April 5, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

luvs, I am always excited to read your postings. I have learned from them. The problem I forsee is…THE REAL WORLD. In this world, most private schools want to at least break even, lacking a large endowment. It seems unlikely, except in a few really outstanding places, that there will be the support personnel (of course, if there is no IDEA requirement, they may not be needed :) It also seems likely that, with a few outstanding exceptions, they would “cherry pick” for students. Then, we have the whole access issue. In my county there are 3 church-run private schools who have not seemed to rush, with the exception of the Adventists, to take on children with problems. They want kids who can pay the tuition. Of course, that does not mean that private schools might not spring up, but their focus might be more proprietary and less altruistic.

In a lovely world with the ideal law-making and the ideal access to schools, it might be a big benefit. I think our regular ed kids would benefit by not having to let one or two or 7 classmates have 80% of the teacher’s time. I am just saying, in our world, the ideal does not happen too often. And it would be a very expensive lesson to learn for us all.

I think we teachers should be able to choose students who would carry with them “extra money”, say twice the going rate, to any school willing to take them on!

By concernedparent30329

April 6, 2007 8:29 AM | Link to this

It is important to realize that in Florida, many of the schools which are accepting vouchers are not offering special ed services and these schools are not required to. Becuase there are no academic measures, we don’t really know if academically the voucher students have improved. We lived in Florida for a short while and that is what we found. But sometimes, for a child with mild needs, a smaller setting may be part of the solution. In Florida, and really lots of Georgia, too, the public schools are simply huge.

I understand Sharon’s frustration with the system, but I have a hard time believing that some small community based private school could have taught that 10 year old to read, unless it was a school for children with reading difficulties. From what I can tell, Atlanta has many of those, but they are $$$ and very difficult to get into. I wonder if these schools will open their doors to voucher students. (At least in Florida, schools opt in, private schools don’t have to participate.)

My brother and sister in law, at great expense to themselves, put my nephew at Lindamood-Bell for a summer for their reading program. While they could have waited for the school to get their act together and do what was right for their son, they choose not to lose that valuable time. At some point, as parents, I believe we have to step up to the plate and take responsibility for our kids.

One friend, who lived in Wisconsin, didn’t like the methods/philosophy of the public school systems about hearing-impaired children and researched around the country for what she was looking for and they relocated to get him the best services possible.

Sometimes that is what it takes.

By teach overseas

April 6, 2007 8:33 AM | Link to this

We spend a lot of time talking about how PARENTS want vouchers- but I’m wondering how many private schools really want those vouchers. Yes, they may want the money- but would they really be interested in all the hoops and drama (and paperwork!) that would come along? I’m thinking not.

By D&D

April 6, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this

I’m in advertising, Erica. My experiences with severely mentally disabled kids/young adults is from what I’ve been exposed to in public. Ever been to a nice restaurant & at the next table, there’s a family with a profoundly retarded youngster, making all sorts of loud, disgusting noises & getting more food OUTside of itself than INside? Gee, I go out to eat to relax & enjoy myself, not to see & hear things that make me want to throw up. Lullene, you stupid low-life, someone with a good, white collar job is NOT trash. I’m trying to see things from your point of view, but unfortunately, I cannot fit my head that far up my derrierre.

By ParentofLD&GiftedStudent

April 6, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this

My son was gifted and had a learning disabilty. He was a non reader in second grade despite having an IQ of 145. He learned to read in the special ed program.

The program is not broken. What is wrong was described in another post. GETTING IN to the program is what needs fixed. Our psychologist was only at the school one day a week and God forbid she or one of her children get sick and she miss. Testing normally took up to three months. This was due to a LACK OF FUNDING for psychologists. The schools do balk at accepting private psychologicals because some private pyschologists are infamous for handing in reports that say what the parents want them to say. The schools have to do their own.

We looked at private schools, three of them. Woodward, Wesylan, and Holy Redeemer. We were told flat out by all three that they were in no way able to give any special help to a student with an IEP. There is NO accountability and there is no mandate that the private schools to do anything for your child. THAT is what you give up by going private.

I would only agree to private school vouchers IF they went only to schools that specialize in special ed, such as The Howard School or St. Francis. Those schools are already very difficult to get into so good luck with that.

Keep the money in the public, neighborhood schools but use it better. Let the teachers and local schools tell you what they need, not Sonny and the gang.

And if you want to know what the true educational money drain is in this state, take a long hard look at the gifted program. THAT is a money loser. My son was in that program also. What a waste.

By Lee

April 6, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this

You know, my heart goes out to the parents of children with disabilities, I really do. But at the same time, I get p1ssed because these same parents are the ones advocating that their special ed student be placed in a regular classroom beside my child, which makes it more difficult for her to learn.

Case in point, in the second grade, there was a child in my daughter’s class that was still wearing a diaper. About twice a day, this kid would go in his pants, requiring the teacher to get someone to cover her room while she walked this kid down to the nurse (or special ed teacher, I forget) to get his diaper changed. About an hour a day was spent dealing with this issue.

Was my child getting needed instruction during this hour? No.

No, what happened is that the work that didn’t get covered in class was sent home as homework in the vain attempt that Mom and Dad could cover the concepts that should have been taught in class.

A lot of these special ed students need to be pulled out of the regular classrooms and grouped in classes where their needs can be better met.

Of course, that would be akin to tracking and someone’s self esteem might get hurt and we can’t have that, now, can we?

By JustMe

April 6, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

Sorry all, but i agree with D&D. He/she is telling it like it is. It is called survival of the fittest. Deal with it.

By 2ndGradeTeacher

April 6, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this

Lee, the problem is NOT having that child mainstreamed into your child’s regular ed. classroom. It is that there is not enough funding to supply an aid to handle what the classroom teacher is doing, the diaper needs. THAT is what is wrong. Having a special needs child in a regular ed classroom teaches very valuable lessons to students and I have had wonderful experiences with them in my class. I have the support needed, your child’s teacher did not. THAT is the problem.

The gifted program was brought up. I totally agree that this program is overfunded. Having a gifted program in kindergarten through 3rd grade is the biggest waste of money in education. IT IS NOT NEEDED at that age. These kids get a small class size AND a teacher aid. Insane. There are very few children that are so gifted that they can’t be challenged in the regular classroom. The gifted program for their parents is like being able to brag about the Jag in the driveway. That is why it is a sacred cow in education.

By 2ndGradeTeacher

April 6, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

By the way, the Gifted Program is considered special education.

By mm

April 6, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

D&D- while I get what you are saying…I had to laugh because, with the LACK OF PARENTING today, I go to plenty of restuarants where “normal” children are making all sorts of loud, disgusting noises and making the dining experience intolerable for others :)

By Special Education Teacher

April 6, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

Yes, the special eductaion system is very broken! Although the students have IEPs or individualized education plans, the state or the local districts are not providing the necessary funding or mandates to adequately serve these students. The county I work in are doing away with classes that are reserved for students with behavior and severe learning disabilities and moving to an inclusive setting. Inclusive settings are great for some students, but not all of them. These settings only cause students to become even more lost in a system that is suppose to help them in a least restrictive environment-not in an environment that saves the county and state money. Furthermore, students are placed into special education for a reason. Many of the kids are not on grade level. So why are they tested on grade level with the CRCT which only weakens the little self-esteem they already possess. Georgia needs to take a serious look at the special education-not to SAVE MONEY but to Save kids who CAN learn!

By Zoe

April 6, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

The gifted program is funded based on the amount of time the student is served. In the elementary grades, it is usually only 5 hours a week. That amounts to about $500 extra per kid per year in elementary school, maybe an extra $2000 max in high school if a kid takes all gifted eligible classes and the teachers are eligible for gifted funding.

A waste? Really? So you think the bright kids need to provide services to the kids that don’t get it? You’re too cheap to pay for your own tutor so you want a gifted kid to do it? Those gifted services outside the classroom in elementary school are probably the ONLY new material those kids learn all year. Many elementary schools have 1 or sometimes one-half of a gifted teacher and the teacher travels between schools. The high school I teach at has 3 “gifted” teachers and 15 Sped teachers. Now which do you think is more expensive? There are approimately 100 gifted kids (1 teacher per 33 gifted kids) and 200 Sped students ( 1 teacher per 13 Sped kids) and don’t forget the 5 Paras we have on staff. Still think it is gifted that is a drain on the system? The gifted at least have CHANCE of going to college, keeping HOPE and graduating. Many Sped kids are so used to the modifications we make time after time, they expect it in college and can’t believe professors “make” them come to class and “turn in” work. What a hardship!

Why should a gifted kid be dragged down by kids that can’t read. Do you know what it is like to use the exact SAME reader two years in a row or constantly review stuff you learned last year? Trust me, it isn’t gifted services that are draining the system. Statewide, there are a lot more Sped kids and they cost a whole lot more. The only thing gifted kids are ensured is that they can be served alone OR in AP and honors classes and if there are at least 7 of them, the class size will not exceed the maximum of 21 (at least on FTE count day) Leave gifted kids out of this. While they many be considered Special Education, they are not draining the system the way you think they are. Yes a kid can be gifted and learning disabled. However, the gifted program is not designed to assist with LD students, that is not what the teachers are trained for. My sister is gifted and LD, she went to resource to help her with her problems.

Yes, Special Ed is broken, too many parents are using it as a crutch to get their kids through school and are draining resources from the kids in the middle AND the top.

By Lisa B.

April 6, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

Lack of accountability regarding these SPED vouchers really makes me nervous. I’ve heard comments about how nice it would be to use vouchers to enable a little church down the road to start up a program for SPED kids so those children won’t have to be in classes with those mean-old normal kids. I can practically guarantee those little church schools won’t have certified teachers. We don’t have any private schools in this area at this time who will take SPED kids. The other problem is that some of our SPED kids have SPED moms who are not going to be able to make to best educational decisions for their children. I can just see the “preacher” telling them to bring their kids to church for school. That voucher money would be very appealing for some of these very poor, rural churches. I’ve heard people question, “Who would do that sort of thing?” Well, if there’s nothing in the law to prevent it, someone will do it. We’ve all seen people do amazingly stupid things.

By Zoe

April 6, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

Why should there be an AIDE in the classroom 2nd grade teacher? If a child can not handle going to the bathroom in 2nd grade, how much is that child really learning? I don’t need my child to “learn” how to be a better human in school, that is my church’s and my responsibility. I need my child to learn how to read and do math. That is YOUR job, not to chance diapers for an oversized infant. Nor should an aide (at the cost of 20K to the school system- salary plus benefits) need to be provided. Why is it that there is this constant claim “there isn’t enough money.” Where do you think this money comes from people? Taxes, taxes and more taxes. Money does not grow on trees, maybe parents of Sped kids need to help out in the services that are required “above and beyond” the regular services. It is the job of the school to provide “free and appropriate education.” Unfortunately, parents do not what to hear what appropriate really is and are in denial about what little johnny isn’t capable of doing. You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear people, and saying you can’t still isn’t going to make it happen. Putting a kid in a regular education classroom for the “social” aspect just means 20 other students lose an entire year. This good of the individual over the good of the group needs to stop!

By iron maiden

April 6, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

After 22 years of teaching HS sped, I’ve observed that learning styles are as unique as fingerprints. In a HS setting, it takes time to make all the learning connections, much less the social/emotional ones. Also, factor in attendance and behavior problems. So often times when we figure out what really works in a co-taught class, the student has moved on to another course. If problems are significant, e.g. in HS, reading below a 5.0 grade level, a small group class is really the only answer. The small group teacher often instructs more than one grade level so can teach the student multiple times. The student really benefits from the consistency. When you have a situation that’s working, parents need to maximize that opportunity. But,unfortunately, parents too frequently want to push their own agenda. I have a 30-year-old daughter who attended LD classes in 3rd-12th grades, and I wish that I had listened more intently to her teachers recommendations. Teachers see a side of students that parents might only glimpse. And I’ve never encountered a sped teacher who intentionally sabotaged a child’s learning opportunities. More and more frequently, I’ve had parents engage so aggressively that the teenaged student is like “the deer in the headlights”. Parents will demand numerous modifications on a college prep diploma program. In the end, that student will still be competing with an overseas professional for a job. Sometimes it seems like any domestic crisis that the family is experiencing is a call to make more demands of the educational program. Special ed. is being dismantled. And much of the individualized humanity will be lost in both the public and private sector. It’s kind of like society as a whole!

By 2ndGradeTeacher

April 6, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Sorry Zoe, but you need to reread my post. I said the Gifted Program is a waste in K-3. And IT IS. I am not talking about older kids. I find it interesting how you don’t bother to go into HOW these kids are identified. They are tested and tested until they do qualify. I have had kids given EIGHT different tests until they get the scores needed. Many of the tests are based on subjective rating lists. I have been asked to fill out forms on children I had THREE years ago. And those ratings can get a child qualified. It is a joke. It is VERY different from the type testing required to get into other special ed programs. Your dollars are way off too. Our school has 700 kids. THIRTY PERCENT are in the gifted program. That is so out of whack with statistics. It is because I teach in an upper middle class white school. Those are the kids that do well on the type tests needed to qualify as kindergartners. Once in, you are never retested, unlike other special ed programs. These kids then are served in very small class sizes with aids.

At this young age, these kids DO NOT need to be pulled out of their regular ed classroom. ESPECIALLY in the type school I teach at. The classroom is already geared toward very bright kids, that is the population we have at my school.

And if you really want to know who gets screwed, it is the kids that DON’T qualify for special ed but are slow learners. Damn right I think the gifted program drains $$$ that should be going to reading specialists to work with kids that don’t qualify for special ed. The “poor” gifted kids in high performing schools (where most of them are in the first place) do not need the services as much as the EIP kids. Yet guess who gets the services?

And your comment that special ed kids are draining resources from the top and the middle is the most disturbing thing I have ever heard from an educator.

By 2ndGradeTeacher

April 6, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Zoe, you don’t know what you are talking about. You teach high school so how do you have any idea the impact of having a special ed child mainstreamed into a regular ed second grade class is? You don’t. I suspect you are a gifted teacher because they are the most defensive bunch I have ever seen.

I have a parapro in my classroom soley because of the special needs student. He does not need “diapering” (which is an extreme example). He is autistic. His behavior can be bad sometimes. Guess what? So can the little gifted kid that stuck a pencil into the overhead fan. The parapro works with ALL the kids in my class. Her job is to integrate the autistic child into the classroom and she does that by working with all children. It is a wonderful situation.

My gifted kids are pulled out all day one day a week. That means I cannot introduce ANY new material. The rest of the kids have to do review or some type of extension. Is that fair? My curriculum is driven because these kids are pulled out? Sorry, but I am NOT impressed with the gifted program in the lower elementary grades. It is a bragging right for parents. I would wager that if we waited to test these kids for the program until they were older, many would not qualify.

And THAT is a waste of money. Kids that do get into other special ed programs have reliable tests to prove it. Some areas, such as written expression are not even tested for LD until the child is older. The gifted program tests until they make it.

By Zoe

April 6, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

In a normal system, there is NO way that many kids are gifted. I guess I work in a system that actually works by the rules. Only 5-6% of our system is identified as gifted. Also, if they are being tested multiple times, they are not following the DOE rules. They are only supposed to be tested once every 2 years for gifted. Obviously someone is fudging numbers. In a normal school setting, the one you teach at isn’t all that common, the pull out is needed. Many gifted kids come to school already knowing how to read and function in a k-3 classroom. Try going to a classroom in SW Atlanta, Clayton or South DeKalb. You’ll see just how much the pull out is needed for those kids.

By lynn d

April 6, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

The law requires that a school be open 3 years before it can accept vouchers — so schools won’t be able to pop up on every corner. Additionally, the state will evaluate the fiscal health of each school that agrees/is willing to accept voucher students.

I think access is going to be a problem. I recently spoke to a family moving to Metro atlanta from Florida and it seems like their private schools have far more capacity than those in Metro Atlanta.

Additionally, I really want some kind of accountability. While expensive, a parent, with a special needs child, does have legal recourse if a public school fails their child. (Taking legal action is expensive but at least it is an option.) Parents will lose that ability at a private school.

By luvs2teach

April 6, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

hey catlady - thanks for the ncie words, and ditto for your posts :)

I know vouchers are not a perfect solution - and others have brought up all the negative things I also thought of. But, a large part of what we are doing right now is not working - it’s costing us time, money, and these children’s education. And I think the vouchers have a chance of working if, as I said, they were implemented well.

I wouldn’t advocate any “start up schools” - I think the schools already need to be in place and be proven performers. If a school does not want to accept the student, then that should be the schools perogative. And I think that the student should still need to take some test to measure progress, even if the private school doesn’t offer it - probably at the student’s “base school” when other students are testing. Students should have to stay out for the entire year.

I don’t think it would be a solution for all - but I think it would be a solution for some. I definitely think some students could better be served in another environment. I also think it would be a wake-up call for some parents that the school is not the entire problem.

BTW - I was told recently that gifted programs are no longer considered part of special ed, and gifted students no longer receive IEPs. It’s true at the middle/high school level in my system - I’m curious if that’s true everywhere else?

By Zoe

April 6, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

You teach at a school where a THIRD of your kids are identified as gifted, I teach at a school where it is only 5%. Our sped population hovers between 10% and 12%. I see the waste that goes into the Sped program. I see the teachers that run from teaching Special Education because of the paperwork and the CYOA the system hammers home to these poor teachers. I see the huge number of “EBD” and “ADD” kids that are classified as Sped. I agree there are kids that need this help. However, I see way too many parents using Sped as a way to get more SSI. Did you know if your kid is classified with certain Special Ed conditions, you can get Social Security for them? Makes you go hmmm, doesn’t it. I teach in an different type of sytem than you. In yours, your parents value the gifted program, in mine, they value section 8, free lunch and Special Ed. Everything that gets them something for nothing.

If your system is abusing the gifted program (and 30% rings abuse to me), the system should be wary. A new gifted director at the state is in town, and I wonder how many systems are now going to get audited.

By 2ndGradeTeacher

April 6, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

The kids are only tested every three years BUT that does not mean that during the year they are tested they can’t receive a variety of tests. My own son didn’t receive the three out of four areas needed. He had the test scores in ability and achievement but he did not have qualifying scores in creativity or motivation. They tested him until he recieved one. And I see this all the time.

If you think this is not rampant than you have never been in North Fulton or East Cobb. Check out Sara Smith elementary and see what their gifted population is. Check out Simpson Elementary in Gwinnett and see what their gifted numbers are. Check out some of the burbs elementary websites and see how many gifted teachers are on staff.

Yes, a gifted child in SW ATL would need the gifted program. That is my point though, there are far fewer kids that need it than the number that actually recieve it. My regular ed kids are reading on a 4th grade level. MY NON GIFTED KIDS. We do things that amaze me that seven year olds can do. There is no reason why there should even be a gifted program at the lower ages. We do the same high end activities. We are REQUIRED to do the same type activities because it keeps the parents of kids that did not qualify for gifted happy. So I see it as a waste at my school and at many others.

Learning to read however, is the cornerstone for life success. And the critical time is K-3. Yet those kids are the ones that get the shaft. If it were up to me, I would cut every penny for gifted kids in lower elementary schools that are platinum level and put those dollars to the kids that are not reading and don’t qualify for special ed.

By iron maiden

April 6, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

I think SET has said it before. This is just a way for government to infilltrate/contaminate private schools with unceasing demands. Since 1972, I’ve seen what it has done to public education. Bad idea for everyone!

By Lisa B.

April 6, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the info. SPED vouchers will be a moot point in my school system if they can’t be used in start up schools. At this time, we have no private schools in there county where I teach. I hadn’t read the part of the law requiring schools be established at least three years before they can take voucher students. Thank goodness there is something in the law that will stop fly-by-night schools from cropping up everywhere just to take advantage of voucher dollars.

By Lee

April 6, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

“I have a parapro in my classroom soley because of the special needs student”

Key word, THE. As in, ONE student.

Yep, that sounds like the government. It would probably be far more efficient and effective to group students with similar disabilities together. But no, some Phd in education from a mail order, internet college decided that would harm their “self-esteem.”

Little wonder the idea of vouchers for special ed students is taking hold.

Good grief.

By thomas

April 6, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

Both Zoe and 2nd grade teacher have made some excellent points:

Very few schools have a largee percentage of gifted students. Those that do are in affluent areas (north Fulton, Forsyth Co., east Cobb, North Gwinnett, etc.). These are the children of upper middle class whites. Children who have been groomed for success in school. The children of parents who fight to get their children placed in gifted for social (NOT NECESSARILY ACADEMIC REASONS) reasons.

I have taught in elementary for several years. I was worked with the gifted children at my school and was acquintances with our gifted teacher. I am very familiar the official and “unofficial” process for entry into the gifted program. You can basically let who you want into the program, provided they are not stupid. There were some children in our gifted program who were not any more gifted than “regular” children. It’s not what you know, it’s who you know, and if the gifted teacher wants you in the program.

2nd grade teacher is right about the need for gifted services. At the elementary level, students typically leave the classroom ALL DAY for one day a week to do little projects. They go on “vision quests”, pretend they are travelers out west, make up games (seriously), and other flights of fancy. You cannot blame the gifted teachers for having such a big head, because, LIKE ANOTHER POSTER MENTIONED, some people put “smart” (upper middle class whites) kids on a pedestal. They are superior to all other human life, are special, and are the only ones worthy of school resources.

You cannot introduce new material on days when the kids are in gifted. Nor are they responsible for any work/learning that took placed in the regular classroom. Granted the kids are smart. In fact I ENJOY working with gifted students. But if you are any decent teacher, you can differentiate to challenge those kids. Teaching the gifted kept me on my toes. I had to work harder with my lesson planning and execution to keep those kids engaged and motivated. It does take some talent to teach gifted. BUT IT TAKES TALENT TO TEACH ANY CHILD!!!!!

As for inclusion, it is really good only for a few students (high achieving). You see, it is called SPECIAL EDUCATION for a reason. Catlady is right on this and I have agreed with her many times over the SPED issue. Both SPED and ESOL are SPECIALIZED instruction. INSTRUCTION THAT IS NOT PROVIDED BY THE REGULAR CLASSROOM TEACHER. IT CAN’T BE. True SPED students and ESOL students need specialized instruction to either a) teach them at their appropriate instructional level (SPED) and b) provide additional instructional support to help them catch up in language/reading (ESOL).

Again, as I have said time and time again before: THE INCLUSION MODEL BEING PUSHED IS AN ATTEMPT AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF EDUCATION TO ELIMINATE THE GIFTED/SPED/ESOL RESOURCES THAT CURRENTLY EXIST. They are doing this without regard to the effect it will have on the students served, the other students, the teachers, and the school.

They are doing “inclusion” to: 1) $ave money through fewer teachers 2) $ave money through fewer resource materials (books for the resource room) 3) $ave money by not having to provide classroom space for SPED/ESOL/Gifted classrooms

Speech teachers are now moving to inclusion. Gifted teachers are now moving to inclusion. How in the h_ll can you “serve” all these gorups in one class at one time? At my school, we have ESOL and speech teachers going into the classroom. At my old school, the county was moving toward getting the gifted teachers into the regular classroom. In fact even at this school, there is the “talent pool” or “high achievers groups” where the gifted teacher is serving non gifted students.

This is the thing that bothers me: All kinds of children, who need specialized instruction are going to be dumped in the regular classroom, WHERE THEY WILL NOT GET THE INSTRUCTION/ASSISTANCE THEY NEED but will instead detract from the instruction of other students and become a burden on the regular teacher.

It is a known fact that many of these so-called “inclusion” teachers end up doing nothing when they come to the regular classroom. These people are now able to coast. They do absolutely, positvely, emphatically, no lesson planning or instruction whatsoever. This is fact. This goes for any other augmented teacher as well. INCLUDING EIP AUGMENTED. At best, these teachers may do a simple read aloud or guided reading lesson to a small group on occasion. But usually, if they show up to your class at the assigned time at all, they either sit in a corner, walk around the room monitoring students like a parapro, or just hover over “their” students while everybody does the exact same assignment. No modification of any work is made. No new lessons for their students are presented. So this is why the inclusion model doesn’t work. You can’t do speech and ESOL in a room with a lot of other noise going on in it anyway.

By thomas

April 6, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Let me say again, for those of all you people who don’t understand: This inclusion model is coming from the highest levels. There will be a day where there will be almost no SPED, ESOL, or “gifted”. Slowly but surely the numbers of SPED, speech, and gifted qualified students will dwindle. Catlady told us about this months ago. I was at a state conference and the state head of ESOL say that if we use “Pyramid of Intervention” effectively, we WILL reduce the number of SPED students. I had never heard of this “Pyramid of Intervention.” After conducting research, I found the actual state document:

http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/DMGetDocument.aspx/0206PyramidArticleWEBx.pdf?p=39EF345AE192D900F620BFDE9C014CE65F48E7E4CC653240504EB3D2B367434F67EC4756D61498C8&Type=D

See it for yourself.

The same thing goes for the SST process. Any “modification/accomodation” that has any inkling of success will result in the student being “successful” in the regular classroom with accommodations. No SST or SPED will be needed. It doesn’t matter if the child is in the fifth grade reading on first grade level. It doesn’t matter how many times he or she has been in EIP self contained (some students have been in those classes for years!!!). It doesn’t matter if they failed the CRCT numerous times.

With the exception of a few students (USUALLY THE ONES WHO DON’T NEED SPECIAL SERVICES IN THE FIRST PLACE- read my earlier posts) with agitator parents, most kids won’t qualify for anything, unless they are REALLY severe. The few non severe kids who really need the services won’t get it.

By 2ndGradeTeacher

April 6, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Let me describe my classroom. I have seven gifted students, 8 regular ed students, 3 resource (they are LD) and one autistic child. The gifted kids leave once a week all day. The resource kids go to special ed classroom for their language arts block. They are in my room for math, social studies and science. The autistic child is functioning ON GRADE LEVEL. He does not need to leave the room for academics. The parapro is there for support of his behavior. He sometimes gets overstimulated by noise and has to leave. This happens a couple of times a week.He needs to be redirected to listen on occasion. He was in my room last year as I moved up with this class. His social skills have grown amazingly. I do not see how that would have happened if he had been in a special classroom all day. My students are in no way impacted by his being in the classroom. There are other children in my classroom that take up more of my time. Should they be booted out too? This parapro also works with the kids that are in resource AND with the other children in my class including the gifted kids. There is no way I could handle the autistic child AND the resource kids effectively without her. My entire classroom benefits from having this parapro in there and she is there because of the autistic child. A win win.

By Lisa B.

April 6, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

2nd Grade:

Your classroom sounds like it is set up the way I envision inclusion SHOULD be.

Unfortunately, I think lots of schools use the “dump and pray” set up. In 6th grade my son was in a classroom with 30 regular ed, 8 special ed and two teachers. The noise level of the class was impossible for some of the students to cope with. Fortunately, my son is an excellent student and his grades were fine, but I don’t think he learned much in that set up. He did a lot of tutoring, and enjoyed it, but I think he spent way too much time on those sorts of activities.

I wish all schools would use the model you describe. That sounds great.

By catlady

April 6, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

The Pyramid of Intervention, in my opinion, is a pile of s—t. Period. It is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen passed off on the schools, for any kid.

I teach ESOL, so I might be a little defensive about this, but I think what I do is special. I am not a reading teacher, altho I do teach reading. But I also teach the vocabulary, syntax, and structure that English speaking children come to school with (after all they have been hearing and practicing it for 4 or 5 years previously). I teach listening and speaking and American culture. I am told I will do inclusion next year WITH NO PLANNING TIME WITH THE TEACHERS IN WHOSE ROOMS I WILL BE WORKING. In my pull out room, I focus on what the students do not know (I know the students well in a small group), and on what generally gives ELL students a hard time, plus specific vocabulary they have never heard in English. My colleague who has been doing inclusion for 2 years says ALL the kids in class (ESOL and non) rotate to him for 15 minutes. Now, the ESOL guidelines say 45-50 minutes instruction per segment, so I cannot figure out how that flies. At any rate, the state says kids should not be in ESOL for many years (there must be something wrong with them!) yet we are going to deny them instruction that we know works and if we try to test them for special ed they can’t be tested because of the Pyramid of Intevention, which says no matter how many years behind the kid is, if you can dumb it down enough for them to do it (success=Johnny writing his name in 5th grade), then they are successful and need no other testing.

I really don’t think, Thomas, that anyone has a CLUE what this is going to mean for ALL our kids and teachers.

I have asked to see the research that “proves” that inclusion works and no one will show it to me.

Why are we in that handbasket and why is it getting so hot?

By catlady

April 6, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

Lisa, I love your Dump and Pray analogy. For some of the kids, it will be Dump and Prey, at the hands of some of the more easily agitated special ed kids who cannot have normal discipline because of their exceptionality.

By catlady

April 6, 2007 6:31 PM | Link to this

The best thing I can say about the vouchers is, for those parents who actually HAVE choice (in metro areas, perhaps) this would be put up or shut up time. If they find a good school for their child, great, God bless them! If they don’t, they get a dose of perspective about what else is out there (Maybe the grass is greener, maybe not…). Maybe there was something good going on at that awful public school. As long as the parent understands, *and there are no exceptions and waivers, *that the money has been expended on their child’s behalf, and they cannot leave and come back to public school till the beginning of the next school year. I truly don’t envision our spineless state legislators, policymakers and state level ed people following that rule, however. Have the legislators thought about how many folks would have to be employed to oversee this, and the budget for that? I know when HOPE was thrown on the colleges, they had to come up with the additional personnel on their own with no additional funding. Have the private schools thought about this? Except for some stellar, specialized schools, I just cannot see too many jumping on the bandwagon on this.

By Terry Baradine

April 10, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

For those people who have the utter audacity to slam Sharon Gudger is way out of line.. Do you have a clue what she does for a living? What she has to deal with on a daily basis— she sees absolutely no accountability across the board for Special Education — Schools are not giving the MINIMUM, do you understand, the MINIMUM for these kids to learn. Do you people have any idea how racist and narrow minded you sound. Are kids that learn differently not supposed to read? Are we not supposed to expect public school to teach reading, along with the parent?

Most special ed families are up against a brick wall — then you have idiotic policies — like Prison Cells used for behavior modification —- when study after study shows using Isolation Rooms as punishment and INtimidation DOES NOT WORK from a professional standpoint. Talk to any child psychologist — they will tell you. In Forsyth we don’t even have child psychologists on staff to deal with difficult behavior/learning issues. The teachers have to wear many hats and they are wearing thin…

How dare you judge families with special needs kids! Spend one day with a special needs kid, you might learn something. And then you have school administrators who could care less about these kids. They treat them as if they are second class citizens and are not worthy of an education. Not only are the teachers under qualified but you have completely unwelcoming administrators to special needs kids and families.

Shame on you selfish elitists who only care about how dreadful it will be to the private school system to have vouchers in place… Vouchers lead to more accountability across the board for both private and public schools. It will be survival of the fittest and the best school for all. But then again why on earth would selfish people ever think of it that way.

By A

April 13, 2007 7:25 PM | Link to this

Wow, I have read about 50 different views on SPED and my head is spinning. I have a child with ASD, of course, the school categorized him as OHI. Every year is a battle, fighting for him to get educated. I have accepted that there will always be struggles when you have a child with a disability, but some of the attitude from the teachers and administrators I sure could do without. No matter what, there is always someone some where not doing there job. For me, I have come to understand this, but not except it. Every child is different and we as parents must adjust accordingly. The way I see Education is that I must reinforce what the teacher are teaching (within their perimeters) One must look at themselves first, am I doing all I can to help my child succeed? Then the rest is taken up with the teachers. My son’s IEP is most often not taken seriously, but after a few calls they start following the IEP. Very discouraging, but like I read earlier the regular teachers are forced to be SPED teacher. So knowing that, I try to help in any way I can. This separates the good teacher from the bad. Yes, bad. When you have a mother who wants to help and reinforces what the teacher is trying to accomplish and you run into a brick wall, there is a problem. That is when I take a much more aggressive approach to my child’s education which usually involves the administrators, after I have documented evidence of a lack of concern for following my child’s IEP. I guess I have an IP for the way I handle my son’d IEP. I just recently was in a conference pertaining to why my son’s accommodations being were deleted without my knowledge or consent. I don’t know how much longer I can keep this up it is hard. Something needs to be done about SPED and inclusion, so lets come up with some real solutions to help our teachers and students. By the way, I have two-sixth graders, one has ASD (high functioning) and the other is in honor classes, and they both are honor roll students.

I like to address some of the e-mails pertaining to AD/ADHD. These children get a bad rap. Again, as parents we must look at what we are doing first. Many people believe that children diagnosed with this shouldn’t be. I can’t say I don’t have a child with this, but I must ask these parents (for those who haven’t) to take a look at your children’s diet. What are you feeding your children? Do you know what they are eating at school? You would be surprised. I still take a trip a couple times a month to say hi to my children at school and the amount of junk I see 90% of the children’s plates is disgusting. Take a look at you discipline are you consistent. Do you have guidelines in your home? Do your children know what is required of them? The schools in Virginia offer many resources for help. they have all sorts of classes to attend from IEP’s to Disciplining. Anyway, my point is let’s work together to find a solution.
A