Get Schooled

By Jeff

March 28, 2007 8:38 AM | Link to this

Well, in cases where student - and colleague - racism is RAMPANT (ahem - black on white in Randolph County - ahem), about the ONLY way anyone is going to be able to do a half decent job is to be the same race.

In areas where overt racism isn’t as rampant and condoned, I haven’t really seen that it matters.

Note that from my experience, black on white racism is HIGHLY condoned - even encouraged - by blacks. Yet let a white person say ONE thing even REMOTELY negative about a black, and you’ll have Jesse, Al, and the whole friggin’ posse down your throat!

By TheOne

March 28, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

Have no fear Jeff, the white on black racism is alive and kicking too. While I personally discourage ANY type of racism, I see it everyday….white on black, black on white, black on black, white on hispanic, hispanic on black, and on and on and on. My daughter sees it too in an extremely diverse school (that up until a few yrs ago used to be almost all white), where some white teachers seem to not want the black and foreign kids there, and certainly a lot of the white kids (mostly with well to do families) openly express their discontent with the black and foreign kids being there! As for teachers, if you’re a good teacher (even if you’re not) race does not matter…..IF you’re a GOOD teacher!!!!!

By V for Vendetta

March 28, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this

To piggyback off of what Jeff said, I think it depends on the school system. Where I teach, I couldn’t see that it would be much of an issue, but I know that there are districts out there where race would play a huge part in the hiring process. It’s a shame really.

That having been said, one thing I have noticed in my system is an inability to fire anyone who is non-white (specifically black employees). This is only an observation I’m throwing out there, but I have noticed that when an employee makes mistakes on a consistent basis, mistakes that would otherwise get someone fired or removed, they are overlooked if they are black. It takes an act of congress, extensive documentation, and multiple comlaints from a number of people to fire a black worker.

Like I said, that’s just an observation I’ve made over the years.

By HS Teacher Too

March 28, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

I have to say that, in general, I have not experienced race being an issue. However, perhaps I have had a (small) taste of what Jeff describes. But do I think it should matter? Hard to say, Bridget… I think what matters more are cultural differences and language barriers. For example, thick accents are definitely hinderances — it’s so easy to lose pieces of what is said if you happen to drift for a minute or two. And cultural expectations may be difficult. For example, I think of an Asian teacher I once had who just didn’t understand that not everyone went home and studied until bedtime; American kids had other commitments.

Back to what Jeff describes, as a white person, I may have had to “prove myself” to black students. Then again, maybe that’s not the fairest way to say it… maybe I just had classes where the kids were more hesitant to give trust to someone new, and I was certainly new to them, and DEFINITELY not from their world. Did I have to prove myself because I am white and they were black, or because their life experiences made them less open to immediately trusting anyone, nevermind someone who didn’t share those experiences? I can’t say. But ultimately, by just “keeping on,” and not changing who I was or trying to do anything differently with those kids (in terms of trying to prove myself to them; not in terms of trying to reach them overall) than I would have done with any others, they gradually warmed to me, and it was a pretty good year.

Was it a race issue? Hard to say. Truly.

My guess is that skin color is a quick litmus test to quickly say “different life experiences” and allow oneself to dismiss the teacher (or students) as not going to be ABLE to be effective. If you can keep being yourself, those experiences don’t necessarily have to affect the teaching and learning that happens. It might start slowly, but it will come around. In my experience, I believe the kids thought “what does she know about growing up poor in country NC” and not so much “what does she know about being black.” Ultimately, black/white didn’t matter that much. Maybe I was lucky, according to Jeff’s experiences. Certainly my experiences are quite limited. Quite frankly, I’ve just never paid attention to race as a necessary factor in determining HOW I teach. I teach the kids I have in my room based on their needs, not their race. Now if their needs are a result of their race, that’s not for me to determine.

Perhaps today I am the one wearing the rose-colored glasses.

By OldSchool

March 28, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

I’m in agreement with HSTeacherToo. I have nicely mixed classes and find that the only problems anyone has with me is THEIR problem. I start fresh each day and choose to set aside difficulties due to personalities. On my front markerboard are a number of leaves with student names and years printed on their colorful surfaces. These are the ones who “turned over a new leaf” and became excellent students…not because of me but because they truly wanted to be better. Some were pretty scary and tried to make race an issue between us to no avail. Most were just lazy and discovered that they didn’t really want to get left behind.

My class right this minute is reading silently and preparing for a quiz. It is nearly evenly split boy/girl and ethnically (with one Hispanic student who is an amazing student!) Even the ones who got “stuck” in my class are doing well and are a pleasure to teach. When it gets tough, we all just step back and start again. I want them to know my class can be a breadwinner for them after graduation and I want them to gain SOMETHING useful from it. That’s what matters.

The most difficult teacher I had in college was Taiwanese with a very thick accent. Economics was difficult enough but his accent made it even harder. I managed but others gave up.

Gee, THAT was a ramble…wasn’t it?

By scott

March 28, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

First and foremost is the quality and commitment of the teacher. What I would like to see is more diversity on the elementary level as well as middle school. The majority of male teachers are found in high school but I think it would serve all student well to have been taught by a male teacher during the first six years (K-5) of their education. The same can be said for diversity by race, if a kid only has teachers of one race / culture until they reach middle / high school, they may have difficulting adjusting to authority and management of a different student. I also believe it will balance many of the personal teacher biases that exist (though no one would publically admit, for example the pre-judging of a student’s work ethic and academic abilitie simply because their color and gender)

If you could truly do an poll where teachers believed that they would not be exposed ask the question would they want a young black male in their class? If we are honest we know the majority of teachers would answer no. I know this to be the case for both white and black elementary teachers.

Side note: V, what are you alluding to about the process to terminate a black employee. If a school has their documentation in order it should not matter unless they feel (on way or another) they are targetting the employee for a move or dismissal.

By HS Teacher Too

March 28, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Scott,

I, for one, really don’t care one way or the other about “young black males” being in my classes. Seriously. And I teach high school. Maybe such an issue depends on location? Or on grade level? Maybe you can elaborate on what you’re getting at.

But once again I think people are using skin color as an instant way to judge home life, background, life experiences — and that’s not necessraily a fair litmus test. (Don’t worry; I am not so naive to think there are never places/occasions where skin color might be an accurate predictor of such external factors.)

I’ve taught in mostly-white schools, and in 50-50 schools, but I have never taught in a majority-minority school. (Side note — forgive me, folks like jimd, :) who will remind me that the “minority” in some systems has turned to the “majority!”) So, I grant that my experiences are somewhat limited and don’t speak to all possibilties.

I suppose my point is that, given my experiences, I can’t imagine saying that I would not WANT a young black male in my class, and I am curious as to in what situations you think the majority of teachers would feel that way.

By nel

March 28, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

What a tempest in a teapot! With the teacher shortage, you’d think everyone would simply go for quality rather than what makes them feel more “at home” with themselves.

One thing I can say is that Jamaican teaching techniques aren’t changed on the whim of the latest crop of edu wonks. When you learn, you learn for life. I know people of my parents’ age that can recite poems, etc that the learned 60+ years ago.

These teachers wouldn’t last long around here because they are used to order in their schools, and the teaching profession where they come from is still RESPECTED by the community. As to the language, everyone who speaks English speaks it with an accent, fortunately, children tend to have a better ear than adults.

By scott

March 28, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

HS Teacher Too, I am referring conversations with retired principals and vice-principals who are willing to speak freely about what goes on in the school systems. Specifically about one teacher, who I knew (she happens to be black) that requested not to have certain black boys in her elementary class. I know she is not the only teacher who thinks this, she was just bold or comfortable enough to make her request known.
Not all, and certainly not a majority of teachers have a bias against young black males. However, there is a segment that stereotypically view these kids as behavioral problems or not academically strong before they even set foot in the classroom. A good book on this subject is “Countering the Conspiracy to Destroy Black Boys Vol. 1” by Dr. Jawanza Kunjufu (He has been a guest on Oprah, Donuhue, et. all when discussing this subject)

One of the results of this early bias, when combined with weak parenting is the high proportion of black male students being directed to special education class before they leave elementary school. Part of this is due to the lack of male teachers on the elementary level and recent studies have shown this has begun to affect all males, not just blacks.

As older teacher retire, the young inexperienced teacher are less likely to put in the effort when they can easily classify a student special needs and get them out of their classroom.

By NRAlifemember

March 28, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Well I tried to post a comment in “Political Insider” but they do not seem to be taking applications at this time. So I will post here. As for Bull Mooses comment you speak of leadership—when some nut comes into your workplace with the intent of doing harm, I hope you will remember to call upon your “leadership” to help you and not a legally armed fellow employee. You speak of “special interests” when all the politicians are in the back pockets of corporate America. And as we all know corporate America really doesn’t give a hoot if you live or die.

By V for Vendetta

March 28, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

scott, you make some great points. In reference to what I was saying, I have seen a few instances of black teachers not being fired for offenses that surely would have gotten anyone else fired.

The school system often times would rather sweep something under the rug rather than deal with the negative media backlash that occurs when someone files a lawsuit or plays the race card. It’s something I feel sad to have witnessed, but it happens more often than people know.

By B. Harrison

March 28, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Just for the record, the Glynn County Board of Ed member who was so opposed to the hiring of the Jamaican teachers was overwhelmingly defeated when he ran for reelection.

By GT

March 28, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

I too, agree that it does not matter to good teachers. But as in every professions, there is a percentage of people that are not good, at what they do. There is a decent percentage of teachers that are not good..and so, there you have it….the ones that are good, they teach, no matter what..the ones that are bad, get rid of anyone that exposes their incompetence…

By luvs2teach

March 28, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

Maybe you can’t judge a book solely on its cover, but you certainly can try - and as others have pointed out, appearance may be a simple litmus test as to whether or not common experiences exist or not.

My first school was a majority-minority school - 85% African-American, 10% Hispanic, and 5% white - it was a relatively poor school, too, with 78% FRL. The staff was about 60-30, and all administration was African-American. I found myself on the reverse side - parents and students were decidedly more wary of a white teacher. It wasn’t until I shared some of my experiences such as growing up on welfare myself, that the kids began to trust me. Black teachers were immediately accorded a more instant respect that I had to earn. One parent even accused me of favoring the white students in my class - I was so distraught, racking my brains, asking myself how I could’ve sent this message - until it was pointed out that I had NO white students in that class - to which the parent replied, “well, then, it must have been her OTHER white teacher.” WE had a Jamaican teacher who was fired before the year was out - too many complaints about his discipline.

The school I am at now is significantly more diverse, yet I still see the African-American students automatically favor the African-American teachers. I have also observed that some of the white parents aren’t happy when their child has a black teacher - unless that black teacher has a reputation at the school for excellence - then, they’re like any other good teacher - so my situation, reversed again. Ironically though, I have had to work harder to earn the respect of my black students here than at the other school - even though there are fewer black teachers here, and white is still a minority (we have a very international population - something like 19 different nationalities here).

So not an answer to the question - just another person’s experience…

Last thought - from a parent’s point of view: my kids had a wide variety of teachers - young, first year, older and experienced, male, female, white, black, Hispanic, Asian. One of the hardest for my son to understand was a white woman with a very strong “country” accent - harder to understand than the male with the Hispanic accent.

So not only can we not judge a book by it’s cover, appearances can be deceiving.

By HS Teacher Too

March 28, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Scott,

Very interesting comments, thank you for replying to my questions. Here are some more —

In both situations above, if she simply didn’t want the boys because of her pre-determined ideas of what black boys brought with them, that is downright appalling. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but it’s a sad factor in perpetuating the problem.

I ask for these additional clarifications because there isn’t a teacher alive who hasn’t, at one time or another, secretly hoped against getting a certain particular student (or group of students together) on their roll, but I can’t imagine that it would be for race alone! (Okay, so I can imagine that there are some a$%*&es out there … but I hope they are a distinct, distinct minority.)

By jim d

March 28, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

Is being the same race a factor?

Should it be? No

Is it? Yes

And while I like to consider myself rather liberal in that area, I’m not infallible. My son was assigned to a teacher from India one semester and came home complaining after just a couple of days that he was having problems understanding her so we requested a transfer and it was granted. Let me be the first to vouch for this teachers credibility. She is an EXCELLENT teacher but my concerns at the time were my childs ability to understand the accent.

Since that time he’s had a teacher that spoke so softly she could hardly be heard, and one that although he possessed his doctorate degree, and knew the materials inside out, he lacked the ability to impart that knowledge. My kid fared fair thee well in those classes and in retrospect I wish he’d have toughed out the language issue.

However, I do have reservations with spending the money to send school representation on vacations to foriegn countries under the pretense of soliciting teachers to come to work for them.

Let’s be totally frank here. People relate better to those they see as being the same. This isn’t unique, animals do the same thing and If you happen to believe in the theory of evolution this is quite understandable.

By scott

March 28, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

luvs to teach,

I never thought about parents requesting their child not having a teacher based on race, but it happens just as parents request to have a teacher for the same reasoning. As someone mentioned earlier, with the teacher shortage and the requirements to be “highly qualified” by NCLB, students and parents should be happy if they come across a good teacher. I still believe a student benefits from a diverse group of teachers.

By iron maiden

March 28, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

Long-term classroom experience has led me to speculate that teenaged, black males often do not respect authority figures beacause they are the “authority” figures in their own households. They expect to be treated that way in society as well. I’ve frequently received the response, “I’m grown!” Last night at our 8th-grade open house, young men were wearing doo rags through the halls while Moms were following close behind. Certainly they know by now that this type of headgear is not appropriate in a school environment. Are black mothers really intimidated by their own sons?

By scott

March 28, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

HS teacher, Before I answer your questions I wanted to note this teacher is from our neighboring state to the South, Florida, northeast florida to be exact. The school was a predominately affluent with a majority white pop., however there are large groups of Asians, Indians, as well as a percentage of Black students. As far as I know she did not want any black boys in her class because she believed they were behavior problems. The irony of this situation is that she had a son and will soon be entering elementary school. I know this is one isolated incident but the preconceived bias hurts both the student and the development of a teacher. I know all teachers wish for that perfect class where all students work hard, you do not have to repeat yourself, and students work at the same high academic levels. However when faced with the ESOL, Special Needs, or behavioral problem, we gain experience that makes us better teachers when all is said and done.

By Nja

March 28, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

Hmm. In my district there are a number of teachers from India, Pakistan, etc. They put them in mostly special education classes. From what I have seen these teachers have no control and the language barrier causes much difficulty for the student.

Two years ago I went to a job fair at the Georgia World Congress Center, let me tell you there were groups of teachers from the countries listed above. They had an American counterpart there coaching them on what to say and how to present themselves in an interview. They had all taken vans to the center together. Apparently housing is found for them and there are support networks specifically created for these foreign teachers.

There are a lot of new teachers that are looking for jobs. They get the “you have no experience line.” I don’t understand why we have to outsource teaching.

By Lola

March 28, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

Were Fulton County teachers really told not to correct the students’ grammar? I heard that but I’m hesitant to believe it unless a Fulton County teacher actually says they were.

By Lisa B.

March 28, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if Fulton Co. teachers were told not correct students’ grammar, but now students must speak with correct grammar as a partial requirement to meet the Georgia Performance Standards (GPS)at the elementary (and probably higher) level.

By Janine

March 28, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

In all my years [32] of teaching in mixed race/culture schools I never personally encountered an issue of this nature in any of my classes….not from parents or from students. However…regarding teachers with heavy accents…..I think all teachers should be able to express themselves clearly in standard AMerican Engish! ANd this is an issue in many places.

There is an [NCLB, I think} law/policy that is not enforced that states that all ESOL teachers must take and pass an English grammar and usage test before being assigned to a classrooom. I read a couple of years ago that Boston decided to enforce the policy and several ESOL teachers were released . One principal decided to take the test and failed it.

By Janine

March 28, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

Being able to speak and model Standard American English should be a requirement for all teachers regardless of race or ethnicity. Unfortunately, it isn’t ….one of my principals had to require all notes going home to parents cross his secretary’s desk for grammar/usage check before being sent home.
This in reaction to parent complaints.

By Lisa B.

March 28, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this

I hope one doesn’t have to be the same race of his or students to teach successfully. In my opinion, race of the teachers does not matter. Expertise, content knowledge and knowing how to work with children are what count. However, I cannot speak for my students. I don’t feel like I’ve had racial issues with my students, but some black students may be more comfortable with black teachers. My primary concern is student achievement; academic and social, and my students are successful, year after year.

The race of my son’s teachers does not matter to me at all. Nor does their sex, or religious affiliation. What matters is each teacher’s ability to teach and challenge my son. We are lucky. He’s never had a bad teacher. My son obviously likes some better than others, but respects and learns from all his teachers. I expect all my students to respect and learn from me.

That may sound simplistic, but I think there are far more important issues than spending time and energy worrying about race.

It is a shame so many children (black, white, etc.)are still raised to be racists. It sure puts them at a disadvantage.

By HS Teacher Too

March 28, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

Jimd,

I have to disagree with you here. Your transfer request had nothing to do with the teacher’s race. It had to do with her ability to communicate in a way that your son could understand. I would venture a guess that the fact that the teacher was from India didn’t matter, but her particular accent, which made her difficult to understand and thus made it difficult for your son to follow her and learn the material, did.

As for “qualified” teachers who can’t impart their knowledge, we’ve all been there, and it’s unfortunate. I would say more, specific to the school in question, but I will bite my tongue. Or tie my fingers so I can’t type. :)

By lynn d

March 28, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

My children attend a very diverse school and though our principal has tried to better reflect that diversity in her staff, she has mostly black and white teachers. It would be nice to have an hispanic teacher or asian teacher, I just don’t think many have crossed the door for an interview.

When my son was in kindergarten, you would have thought the room was the United Nations, it was so diverse. The hardest person to understand in the room was the little girl from Eastern Tennessee.

Are there really American teachers, who have passed all the necessary tests and have finished school, looking for jobs and going without…. DeKalb always seems to have openings, so I am wondering… where are these unemployed, but qualified, teachers?

By teach overseas

March 29, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

The school systems do their best to recruit and hire minorities.

When I was just out of school I applied to DeKalb County Schools and was eagerly granted an interview by the main office. The woman on the phone said my application looked great and was looking forward to meeting me. When I got to the office, the waiting room had number of other applicants- all Black and Hispanic. I didn’t think much of it until the interview woman called my name (my maiden name is very Hispanic sounding) I could have slapped her and she would have been more surprised when the very white me stood up. The interview was quick and terse.

Luckily, I had another interview that day with another school system who didn’t seem to care as much how white I was and I took a job there that day.

Never did hear from DeKalb….

By KA

March 29, 2007 8:56 AM | Link to this

I agree with Lisa, a teacher’s race has no connection to a teacher’s ability and effectiveness. What matters is the lack of authority that teachers have to establish and enforce a meaningful academic discipline in their classes. Teachers blessed with good students who are ready and willing to learn will have an easier job than those cursed with slackers and misbehaving thugs who ruin it for the whole class and who can’t be excluded because of admininstrative bullying.

By Nja

March 29, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

Teach overseas,

I got an interview with Dekalb also, although my name is not a name you can associate with being black or white. I had the same experience you had AND I’m black. What I was told about Dekalb was that you have to be in the right sorority and fraternity or go to the right church, etc., etc. It’s just the black version of the good ole boy network- and I’m not apart of that network either.

By jim d

March 29, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

HST II,

“As for “qualified” teachers who can’t impart their knowledge, we’ve all been there, and it’s unfortunate. I would say more, specific to the school in question, but I will bite my tongue”

Not to worry. His contract wasn’t renewed. I hope he may have found a more suited environment in a colege somewhere. I think he might have been pretty good in that environment. He just had a problem imparting knowledge to 14 / 15 year old students. He really was a pretty nice guy.

Now an off topic question.

What the hells up with the GHSGT? From what my kid tells me every day after doing a section of it—this things about worthless since any 4th grader should be able to pass it.

As with most of these tests, I suspect he’ll be in the 93-98th percentile and he’s sleeping for the last 45 minutes to an hour every day they’re testing.

By MA

March 29, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

If the Jamaicans were hired to teach in HS, then it won’t matter. They won’t last out the year! Jamaican schools are based on the British system of respect and discipline. I have many friends who have done the “year-abroad” teaching program and gone to Japan or Korea. Even though they were of an entirely different race, they had no problems because of the Japanese tradition of RESPECT for teachers. The US tradition is adversarial. Every teacher is a lawsuit waiting to happen. The IDEAL SCHOOLS would be black male teachers for black male students; black female teachers for black female students, white male teachers for white male students, etc. etc. Come to think of it,… isn’t that the way it used to be … remember the Fayetteville Seminary for Young Women, Gordon Military Academy, etc.

By SET

March 29, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

As usual we have people whining about “racism” and going on to say that the students and their parent get to select their teachers in order to maintain the status quo and to not have to interact with higher culture.

Go see the movie “To Sir With Love”.

The last thing students need, especially black students, it to have anything their way and to be comfortable. That’s giving them the rope to hang themselves in this economy.

Because of IQ distribution in blacks as well as other ethnics you can’t find enough bright people of that race qualified to teach in a classroom. Sad but really true. Try Internet research on the racial disparity of the CBEST test used to keep dull people out of the teaching profession in CA.

When you do find a ready willing and able teacher of any race, which is not getting easier, they have to be given the authority to snap the whip (so to speak) and run their classes - especially if they are teaching/training lower class black males.

A good black teacher will have to be tough to get to where they are. A white teacher teaching ghetto kids will have a tough job because they may not know (due to political correctness) what they are dealing with. Teaching a large rotating group of adolescents is a struggle nowadays and more so with a bunch of proletariat kids. A good teacher may be Jewish, Irish, WASP, Asian, Black or whatever. I’ve had them all. A good teacher doesn’t have to be any particular race. Race opposites are no problem in my book. “Racism” isn’t a problem either. Teachers aren’t the students friends, families or peers. It’s nice if they like each other but it’s purely optional.

By jim d

March 29, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Bridget,

I thought about this comment last night and felt compelled to address it.

they dredged up an arcane state law from 1938 — which prohibited foreigners from working in state government, except in limited circumstances — to force the board to cancel some of the teaching contracts.

I fear our intelligence is showing. It’s this type of backward thinking that keeps Georgia in the cellar. Perhaps it’s time voters started digging up an “arcane state law” that can be found in OCGA Title 21, Chapter 4

By HS Teacher Too

March 29, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this

Jimd —

As you have told me in the past with regard to other topics, it’s my turn to say “don’t get me started!”

Have you seen some of the questions on the HSGT? Questions such as, “which is the best instrument with which to tell the temperature?” And the choices are a clock, a thermometer, a radio …

The HSGT is beyond ridiculous. Other than the science section, which I understand to be riddled with problems (no pun intended) it’s a test written to allow the LOWEST common denominator to “graduate.”

And yet kids FAIL!!!!!

By jim d

March 29, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

HST II

Haven’t had to see them. The kid has a nearly photographic memory. He comes home and repeats them word for word.

M/C Crap like what shape best describes a basketball? with answers like a sphere, a circle, a square or a rectangle.

Or how about this math stumper. Jon wants to buy an item that is priced at $9.99, if Jon were to estimate the cost, what number best represents an estimated cost for the item? $11.00, $12.00, $10.00 or $5.00.

Then of course we have those really tough math questions like. which shape best describes the point of a pencil?

And to think, I’ve sent my kid to school for nearly 12 years to learn the answers to these mind boggling problems.

By HS Teacher Too

March 29, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

Jimd,

Don’t you think that someone, somewhere ought to be outraged enough to bring this to the public and demand something better? There are days when I want to be that someone …

and there are days when I just beat my head against a wall.

By JustMe

March 29, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

jim d-

I agree that there are portions of the GHSGT that are too simple. It seems that the federal government agrees which is why they forced Georgia to increase the cut score for passing on the math and the English sections.

The science portion has always been the most “difficult” but I feel that it is fair and about the level of difficulty that all portions should be.

By mm

April 2, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Scott,

I don’t know where (or if) you teach but your comment about how some teachers are just trying to keep young black males out of their room is not surprising. You say, they can easily classify a student as special needs and get them out of their classroom. Don’t know where you teach but where I teach there is no easy way to classify a child special needs and get them out. There is a very lengthy process with many graduated levels to go through with all types of intervention and opportunity to help the child. In fact, the process is so tedious that many teachers complain that it is not even worth the effort to get them into special needs classes and that some students slip through the cracks waiting on the endless paperwork to be approved. No teacher I know of can just “classify” a student special needs and get them out. If they could, we wouldn’t have to worry about all the knuckleheads still hanging around being allowed to disrupt classes.

By Lisa B.

April 2, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this

It is very hard to get students into Special Ed in my school system. We’re told Georgia has a higher number of Special Ed students than any other state, and that in South Georgia, we have a higher number than the rest of the state. If a child can be classified anywhere near borderline, he or she will not be “labeled” special ed, and won’t receive special ed services. They students are not falling through the cracks. In some cases, they are thrown into the canyons.

By mm

April 2, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

Lisa, Exactly! Here is somewhat of how our process looks… First, you can not even refer a child within the first six weeks of school (even if there was evidence last year that they were struggling) because, hey, you just might be the one that “reaches” them. Okay, so they were not successful after 6 weeks. Now you can refer but of course there will have to be tests and you must wait for the “intervention specialist” to come and give those tests. Well, their schedule is packed so plan on waiting a while. Okay the I.S. tested and now has some “interventions” for you to try. They must be tried for a minimum of 6 weeks to see if they work. After 6 weeks the student must be re-tested to confirm that the interventions are not working. (again, get on the books of the I.S. and wait). Now, it is time to go on to tier two interventions (higher level of intervention). After this.. more testing (by the way it is now around January). Oh yeah, now we also wait because the psychologist must also test. This process goes on and on until it is near the end of the school year and little Johnny is still in the room, not doing well. It is now Spring and the teacher is exhausted and figures Johnny can just stick it out until next year…One problem. The process starts all over again next year and still Johnny has no help. This is all to make sure that no one does what Scott describes and tries to just throw someone in special ed. Well, that won’t happen! Also, to keep from offending anyone or hurting their feelings. And all this(along with other things) leads to us having the graduation test that jimd and others have described above which asks students what shape a basketball is: circle, square, or triangle.

By Lisa B.

April 2, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

Yep, mm, your description fits perfectly with my experience. Don’t forget the SST process that we must go through before we even get to a special ed referral. We’re now on Spring Break, and those struggling kids are still in our rooms. You quoted my exact thoughts when you said, “Johnny can just stick it out until next year.” I went through the entire process with one of my 4th graders last year. We ran out of school year, and the girl was “placed” into the 5th grade classroom next door. The 5th grade teacher and I tried to pick up the process where I left off last year. No can do. The 5th grade teacher had to start over, and here we are in April again. I wonder if the little girl will be “placed” in middle school, or retained. We don’t retain many kids in my system. We have really failed this little girl.

Where I teach, we definitely don’t overplace kids in special ed. I think sped placement was overdone in years past, but current law has changed all that. Now we can’t get them into sped unless they sit in the corner drooling and incoherent.

By Jeff

April 2, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Lisa:

I know of one teacher in your system that hasn’t bothered with it for the past week or so… and I’m going to have to hit her if she pushes herself too hard when she comes back next week. (gf had a major surgery last week, should have gotten the staples removed a few minutes ago…)