Get Schooled

By Jeff

March 22, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

I think the new math model works. In fact, while I think it brings too much up in grade level from when I remember doing it (why are they still learning how to tell time in 4th grade???) it also pushes a LOT of basic ideas down, even to the point that students can start learning Calculus concepts in 7th grade - maybe even earlier. Also, the emphasis on a more well rounded math is GREAT. (No longer will you be able to say “But this is Geometry, why do I have to know x + 30?”)

AND, get this:

It even allows for easy tracking with the Core, Basic, and Accelerated modules. (The Accelerated module is intended to use AP Calc senior year.)

By KA

March 22, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

I am not a teacher and have a question that my be dumb, but here goes! Do the school systems have to strictly adhere to the State math curriculum? Or can they offer the standard curriculum AND advanced courses for the smart kids? And wouldn’t the AP calculus and other AP math classes in HS allow the bright students to be prepared for college?

By Truth Filter

March 22, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Don’t really know much about this, but one question based on what the Cherokee Supt. said in the article:

If math is taught this way elsewhere, wouldn’t colleges already be used to seeing it? For instance, a lot of Japanese students go to Georgia Tech and if Japan is using this type of math, wouldn’t that be on their transcript? Isn’t that what Admissions people do?

By Fulton

March 22, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

IMO, our entire educational system needs to be revisited and revamped. In addition, if the authority to DISCIPLINE is not given back to our educators, the system is doomed anyway and our children are set for failure. This sad reality will be no ones fault but our own. Unfortunately, as of now, WE (the adults) are failing our kids miserably and the inmates are running asylum.

By CDog

March 22, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

AP Calculus and Statistics are both still offered to students on accelerated track.

The fact that East Asian students are superior in mathematics to their American counterparts has little to do with the curriculum and a lot to do with culture and values. The new curriculum will not hurt our kids (the same material will be taught, just sooner and more integrated), but it will not catch us up with the Asians or even other parts of the country. As long as our students do not value mathematical knowledge and understanding (I dare say math is one of the most hated subjects among most teens), they will always trail those who do value it regardless of curriculum. Unfortunately, you cannot really legislate the valuing of math.

By Marta

March 22, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

According to the article, students should have completed 80% of algebra 1 and 50% of geometry by the end of 8th grade. So teach the Cherokee kids geometry in 8th grade, and they will have completed 100% of both subjects by the end of 8th grade. How are they behind? Of course, they will still be behind their international peers, and their peers from states with a decent record of education, but they will be ahead of schedule for Georgia.

By JustMe

March 22, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

Guys, face it. For middle school, the curriculum doesn’t matter! Social promotion still exists - administrators do not allow for students to be held back in middle school. Therefore, students don’t have to learn squat.

We can play games with middle school curriculum all day long, but it simply doesn’t matter because the kids don’t have to learn anything and will be promoted anyway.

This is why high school drop out rates are so high. These kids get to 9th grade without learning anything and hit a brick wall (due to EOCT and so on). Rather than re-learning everything, the kids just quit.

By KA

March 22, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

My oldest child told me that middle school was a black hole in her education, and that she should have gone on sabbatical for those 3 years! She’s an architect now, grad of GT and Rice.

By JustMe

March 22, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

KA -

Does she say this because there was no education provided, or does she say this because she was just mentally “out?”

By KA

March 22, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

JustMe, she was not challenged academically, was BORED out of her mind, and said all of her teachers were stupid, except her math teacher, Peg Alton. Fortunately her mental faculties didn’t wither as she’s always been a voracious reader and so she bridged the middle school gap.

By GT

March 22, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

Jeff, you asked, why are kids still learning how to tell time in the 4th grade. I would venture to say, they are not merely learing how to tell time. These kids don’t understand lapse time concepts. The examples I have seen kids struggle with is, “if the dance starts at 11:49 am, and little Johnny makes two stops, on his way to the dance, that are 15 minutes each, the dance last for 2hrs and 45 minutes, How much time will he have to enjoy the dance, and what time will it be, when when the dance ends”. While this is not difficult, is requries the type of skills, that are not taught in public schools. Why? because the classes are overcrowded, and cannot take time to slow it down, for kids to get it…

By Jeff

March 22, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Just looking at time in elementary math:

M3M1 Students will further develop their understanding of the concept of time by determining elapsed time of a full, half, and quarter-hour.

M2M2 Students will tell time to the nearest five minutes and know relationships of time such as the number of minutes in an hour and hours in a day.

M1M2 Students will develop an understanding of the measurement of time.

MKM2 Students will understand the measurement of calendar time.

MKM3 Students will tell time as it relates to a daily schedule.

Tip on how to read GPS standards: Each standard is known by a 4 letter code.

Letter 1: Subject. (“M” here means “Math”, “E” is English, etc)

Letter 2: Grade level (“3” is 3rd grade, “2” is 2nd grade, etc)

Letter 3: “Strand”. What area within this subject (Such as Algebra, Geometry, Measurement, etc.) Inside the “Math” subject, “M” in this spot designates “Measurement”.

Letter 4: The actual standard number. Starts at one, goes until they are finished with that area in that subject for that grade.

By nel

March 22, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

If you’ve not read the current issue of US News “How They Do it Better”. Here is a link to the issue and various articles contained therein www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070318/26intro.htm It has a section on education hilighting the Finnish education model. Very intersting concepts that seem to be working for them. Sad to see where we are on the global listing for just about everything.

By HS Teacher Too

March 22, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

With regard to the Japanese model and cultural differences, someone posted that teens think of math as their most hated subject. As a high school math teacher, I agree. But it’s not isolated to the teenagers. It is cultural/societal — think about how many of you have said, or how many times you have heard, “Oh, I hated math when I was in school,” or “Oh, I was never any good at math …” whereas no one would dare say “Oh, I hated reading,” or “Oh, I was never any good at reading.”

In terms of the pushing down of materials, this is good only to a certain extent. Pushing down concepts is one thing, but pushing down entire topics (such as saying kids will learn algebra in grade 7) is a different beast entirely. Anyone who’s taken any courses on child/adolescent development knows that students’ reasoning skills, from concrete to abstract, are not always developed enough by 7th grade for kids to learn algebra. So to push algebraic concepts down and force kids to “learn” or “take” algebra does many of them — who WOULD be ready for it in a year or two — a huge disservice. The material makes no sense, the kids aren’t quite ready to reason through it, and what happens? They learn to hate it, because it’s too much, too fast, (often enough their teachers are not very well-founded in math themselves), and they can’t keep up.

Now the executive summary doesn’t really say this, but I understood that Georgia is moving to an “integrated math” curriculum. On its surface I don’t have any real problems with an integrated curriculum as opposed to maintaining discrete topics of Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II, etc. However, I do have a problem with pushing the moee abstract material down. Introducing concepts, yes, forcing kids to “learn” that which they are not ready to learn, NOT AT ALL.

Honestly, my biggest problem with an integrated curriculum is that most states do not follow it, and so kids moving in and out of the state end up being placed as best as is possible, which in turn means that very often these kids end up with knowledge gaps OR being placed in classes that bore them to tears.

I also have a big problem saying that all high school students will graduate high school ready for college at a minimum. IT IS SIMPLY NOT POSSIBLE, NOT NECESSARY, and NOT REASONABLE. There are kids who get to high school unable to multiply, and we are going to get them ready for college? Some of these kids, as we have talked about ad infinitum on this blog, have NO NEED for college, and quite frankly, no ability.

So, once again, our illustrious state leaders fill our heads with rhetoric, but at the end of the day we will end up dumbing down our standards to meet their asinine goals.

By JustMe

March 22, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

KA -

I see….

To connect this with my prior post: In a way, do you really blame the middle school teachers? If the teachers know that it simply doesn’t matter if they work hard to teach because it doesn’t matter if the students learn or no, why should the teachers work hard?

If students are going to be promoted anyway, whether they learn anything or not, does it really matter if the teacher teaches?

By KA

March 22, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

JustMe, I agree with your comments about the middle school social promotion stuff. I grew weary of the teachers talking about all of the changes the kids were going through. What does that have to do with the academics??? Even the gifted classes my kids were in were lame. 9th grade was refreshing for them, finally some learning again!

By Susan

March 22, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

Teachers don’t want to pass kids if they fail classes in middle school, but pass the CRCT, for example, but those are county/state policies and the schools have no control over that. It’s tremendously frustrating to have kids in your classes do nothing and then pass because of the test. THAT needs to change.

By Susan

March 22, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

Amen! I have seen kids in middle school who should in no way have algebra in 7th grade, but do well in it in 8th. The state wants all kids to fit into their mold, and they don’t. This is ridiculous.

By high school teacher

March 22, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

Hey Jeff, have you ever seen the English Language Arts GPS? We have different domains for each grade level as well: ELA10RAC3 = English Language Arts 10th grade Reading Across the Curriculum Number 3.

ELAALRC1 = English Language Arts American Lit Reading Comprehension Number 1.

My eyes just glaze over when I look at GPS!

By Jeff

March 22, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

HST:

ICK!!!! Well, at least the MATH ones are pretty easy to read! :P

By JustMe

March 22, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

Susan,

Bringing the CRCT into this discussion changes things only slightly. Here’s why…

Currently a student enters middle school and is “socially promoted” all of the way through without ever needing to learn a darn thing. This is, in itself, wrong! I do not care whose ‘policy’ it is, it just shouldn’t be!

Then, when the student does take the CRCT, they can pass the CRCT or they can fail the CRCT - it doesn’t matter - and they can still be promoted to high school. Why? Because there are ways around the CRCT failure! For example, a student fails it once. Then, goes to a summer session to remediate. Then, takes it again and fails it again. That student can still be socially promoted (and often is) to high school.

That is why I stated that any discussion or concern or altering of the middle school curriculum is a waste of time and money…. the middle school curriculum doesn’t matter.

Bottom line is that a student really doesn’t have to make any educational progress what-so-ever through middle school (to include the CRCT) and yet land in 9th grade high school. In high school, that type of student then gets ‘stuck’ because there is the mandated EOCT and the mandated GHSGT of which there are no exceptions.

We are doing these students an injustice!!!

By HS Teacher Too

March 22, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

Just Me —

I have to look this up, but you might know the answer faster than I can do so. (I should know this, but I am glad to say I had no EOCT failures.) If a high school student fails the EOCT but otherwise passes the course, can’t they move on and just re-take the EOCT? I know this is a very ignorant question, but last year was my first year teaching an EOCT course.

Also, failing the HSGT doesn’t prevent promotion, just graduation. So it’s probably more simliar to the CRCT in that regard.

By landsaf

March 22, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

sorry this talk makes my head spin. I’m glad I don’t have kids when it comes to stuff like this!

By jim d

March 22, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

Not being an educator allows me to look at this from still another perspective.

It would appear to me that this new math crap will just force more kids out and leave even more behind, It would appear teachers will be attempting to force even more materials and concepts down the throats of students that even if they succeed in learning the materials will never use it.

Why not offer a math curriculum that focuses on every day math, stuff like time concepts, simple math concepts, balancing a check book, making change, etc. for the kids that will simply be going off into the work world after high school rather than following up their primary education with a secondary education?

Why do we keep buying into this one size fits all concept? Are we really that stupid?

By jim d

March 22, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

landsaf,

So are we!

By Zoe

March 22, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

A student does NOT need to pass the EOCT to pass the class. A student with a 100 going into the EOCT could get a zero on the exam and still pass the class with an 85. The EOCT only counts for 15% of the grade.

Also, am I correct in the assumption that middle schoolers will no longer earn high school credit for taking advanced math? No wonder the parents are ticked. What is the incentive to take the advanced classes? I did not know the GPS was going to change Mathematics this drastically. If I were a parent of an advanced middle schooler, I would be very upset. I think 7th and 8th graders SHOULD be able to earn high school credit if they can do the work. Also, as someone else mentioned, the spiral curriculum is going to kill the kids that transfer in and out. Someone needs to recognize Georgia is a very transient state and that maybe the new curriculum isn’t going to work the way it is intended.

By Jeff

March 22, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

Zoe:

Through Grade 8 there will no longer be tracking of any kind in Math. ALL students will be required to hit the SAME targets. This is EASILY doable at those ages. HS is when you really start seeing differences in mathematical ability, and therefore tracking at that point is acceptable.

By V for Vendetta

March 22, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Unfortuntately jim, I think a lot of us ARE that stupid!

As many have said before, it doesn’t matter if the curriculum mirrors that of Japan, or India, or feudal Europe for god’s sake; what matters is the atmosphere and the way it is taught. Without support in such areas as discipline, dealing with parents, and standardized (over)testing, teachers will have a difficult time teaching ANYTHING. The system doesn’t matter.

To be honest, since I was a student here in GA public middle schools, I’ve thought them to be a HUGE waste of time. My “gifted” class consisted of talking about feelings, reading books, observing animals at the zoo, reading books, making pictures about how I felt, reading books, doing research on historical figures, and maybe if I was lucky, reading books. The books were books of my own choice, so I really didn’t “learn” that much from them. But I can read really fast now!

A friend of mine from a different middle school took advanced “gifted” courses in subjects he excelled in. As a result, he cleaned my clock when we got to high school. Who do you think got the better end of that deal?

The common sense approach is sometimes best. While we are so busy looking for the next “quick fix” we are failing to see the common sensical things that can be done to improve our current system. No system will ever be perfect, but we should work to perfect the one we have rather than scrap everything and start all over on a different path every four or five years (ahem, NCLB?).

By high school teacher

March 22, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

A student doesn’t have to pass the EOCT to pass the class, but they have to take the EOCT to get credit for the class.

JimD, when I started teaching 13 years ago, there was a class called “Senior Math” that covered all that you mentioned. Kids balanced check books and set up budgets for a household There was also a business English class; it was called Applied Communications. Kids learned business skills, resume writing, etc. Then someone “realized” (must have been revealed to them in a dream or something) that all kids were capable of going to college. The vocational program funding was cut, auto mechanics, welding, and construction went out the window at comprehensive high schools, and so did Senior Math and Applied Communications. Aren’t we so much better off now? ~please hint note of sarcasm~

By Concerned Gwinnett Mom

March 22, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

Guys, I have a Middle School Student and a Senior in High School. Did you know that most colleges will not accept AP Stat or AP Calculus? They require the student to take these classes at the college so that they can make sure that it follows the colleges curriculum. (This includes UGA and GA Tech)

The state also takes away the extra 10 points that our county gives the students as an incentive to take the class when they are calculating the Hope Scholarship. They add back 5 so this is how it works- Average of 95 would be reduced to 85 which is a 3.0 and then they add .5- So the student receives 3.5 which does not sound so bad. Bad scenerio- Student makes and 89 remove 10- 79 which is a C or 2.0 then add back .5 for a sum of 2.5. So this student would have been better off taking a regular CP class and scoring higher to start with!

What is the point of pushing our kids until they really don’t want to go to college by the time they are done with High School? My Senior is experiencing serious burn out. Both of my kids are “Gifted” but what that really means is they will be in all AP classes by the time they are Seniors therefore their GPA’s will not be as high as most students. It’s very frustrating a darned if you do and darned if you don’t kind of problem.

By Duke

March 22, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

The public school system is beyond hope of reform. U.S. students used to be first in science and math. Today, in one test after another, they come in near the bottom of the 20 or so industrialized nations. The education establishment has dumbed down the College Board exams so that the drastic decline in test scores from past years is not so obvious. Our graduate schools of science and math are still very good, but almost all of the best graduate students are foreigners. Students in Taiwan spend long hours in study, including on Saturday. One college professor said that high school graduates from Taiwan are working calculus problems his graduate students cannot do. Children have to start on a good curriculum very young to be on that sort of track. The only real hope for this country is homeschooling. If I were a teacher today, I would get a good homeschool curriculum and completely get away from public school regulations. The most important thing is good textbooks. My favorite is the Robinson Homeschool curriculum, www.robinsoncurriculum.com. The texts are so good that children can teach themselves. Children typically finish calculus by age 14, and complete two years of quality college level work by 18. (They do not begin to study science until they have finished calculus, so that Newton’s physics can be studied using calculus rather than the dumbed-down pre-calculus models.)

By jim d

March 22, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

Concerned Gwinnett mom,

“student would have been better off taking a regular CP class and scoring higher to start with!”

We’ve had this discussion on the blogs before.

But Yep, I did the math and brought it to my son’s attention (a rising sr.) He’s now taking all cp courses doing quite well and actually having a bit of fun(god forbid)in high school.

By JustMe

March 22, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

To clarify….

A middle school student does NOT have to PASS the CRCT to get promoted. There are ways around it.

A high school student does not have to pass any EOCT. However, it must count as 15% of the grade in that class, so it heavily influences if that student passes the class or not. Yes, a student can pass the course without passing the EOCT, and that student does NOT have to re-take the EOCT. My point regarding the EOCT is that it is mandatory - no exceptions. All students enrolled in that course must take it and it will count 15% of their grade, period, no exceptions. There are many exceptions to the CRCT.

The high school graduation test (GHSGT) is also mandatory with no exceptions. A student must pass this to graduate, period.

By JustMe

March 22, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

Duke,

Thanks for the plug for your homeschool program.

Concerned Gwinnett Mom,

As a high school teacher, AP classes are very important for students wanting to go to college. Not only do they raise the gpa (AP courses generally are counted out of a 5.0 scale while general level courses are out of a 4.0 scale by colleges to include GA Tech and UGA), but they also offer opportunities for the student to get college credit hours by doing well on the AP test.

Of course, various colleges accept different AP course credit. The student really should check into their college-of-choice and see what AP courses they accept before-hand. I believe that the College Board has a web site that lists colleges and which AP courses they accept as college credit.

If a student has no interest in college what-so-ever, then I agree that they may not want to take such a high level of high school courses. If their goal in life is to end their education with a high school diploma, then general level courses would achieve that.

However, college acceptance officers do look at the high school transcript to see which courses are taken, the overall gpa, the gpa in core courses, and many other things.

Are you sure that your gifted child will NEVER EVER want to attend college? Might you be handicapping them if you don’t prepare them for that possibility?

By wwww

March 22, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

The EOCT is curved so heavily I am often quite surprised that many students who have failing test averages all year manage to make a B on the EOCT. So, it’s really pretty worthless.

The CRCT is equally as worthless, and the kids know it. It’s geared towards the lowest student in the classroom. It is not a true measure of anything.

Other interesting points made today: 1. the US is behind in math and science when compared to other nations. Well, guess what? We educate ALL of our students, no matter how unintelligent or unmotivated. Other nations do not do this.

By Joy in Teaching

March 22, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

Goodness….it looks like “bash the middle school day” here on Get Schooled.

I’ve taught both high school and middle school in my 19 years…and teaching middle school has been the most challenging thing I’ve ever done.A middle school teacher not only has to present the information, but has to do it in such a way that developing bodies and minds can understand.

By the way? When I taught high school, it was common to blame the middle schools for passing along students who clogged the 9th grade due to apathy and who eventually joined the ranks of the drop outs. Now that I’m in middle school, it’s common to blame the elementary schools for passing along kids who can’t read, write, or do simple math, as they are being passed through the system there as well.

I wonder who the elementary schools blame?

By HS Teacher Too

March 22, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

Concerned Gwinnett Mom,

I couldn’t agree with you more that the system that effectively penalizes high-achieving kids is as backwards as anything gets. However, colleges DO still look at the level of the classes their applicants took compared to what was available to them as one of the many things they consider.

As a teacher of both of the AP classes you’ve mentioned, I can tell you that there is a GREAT value in having taken them in high school, and that MANY colleges will require a placement test, not a re-taking of the entire course. But even if your child has to re-take a course, the amount that they learned by taking the AP version, the pace at which they learned it, the give-and-take of the high school classroom versus the college classroom — these are invaluable and I have NEVER had a student come back to me saying, “man, I wish I hadn’t taken that wtih you,” but I have had MANY students come back saying “Thank GOODNESS I took that in high school first…” And their reasons run the gamut from not understanding their college professor’s accent (it’s a plain old fact that many math/science professors are not native English speakers), to the pace being too fast, to the examples being insufficient…

So even if the current GPA/10-point system is a#! backwards, and it most certainly is, there are other valuable reasons for taking the AP classes — and not just math classes.

That being said, if I had a student who wasn’t sure what they wanted to major in once they got to college, I would say that taking AP Statistics is probably one of the most valuable courses they could EVER take, even if (and it is true) a fair amount of colleges don’t accept it for credit.

Now on that subject, there is a strong effort on the part of AP Stats teachers across the country to petition the schools that don’t accept the credits. Among other methods, you can always submit the AP syllabus and your child’s individiual teacher’s syllabus to the math/stats department at whatever school it is they eventually decide to attend, and petition/appeal individually. Many parents have found success this way. It perplexes all of us as to why colleges don’t accept AP Stat as readily as they accept other AP classes, because AP Stats does more, in more depth, than most college intro-stats courses. The only thing I can think of is that AP Stats is (purposefully) not software-based (such as SAS or SPSS) and colleges often teach their intro stats classes in combination with stats programming.

I hope this helps.

If your child is currently taking an AP Stats or Calc class and anticipates not getting credit, email Bridget for my email address and I’ll put out some feelers to see if/how I can help you.

By HS Teacher Too

March 22, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

Thanks to those of you who answered my question about passing the EOCT.

Seems to me that if you don’t even have to PASS the test to get credit for the course — and it’s the test that’s supposed to be an “objective” measure to compare what constitutes, say, Algebra 1 at School A compared to School B — that’s even MORE evidence that it’s a waste of time!!! Why wouldn’t school A, which might know it goes a little easy on its kids, not just work to ensure that kids go into the EOCT with grades that would permit them to power-fail the EOCT and still pass the class?

Beating my head against the wall …

(And whoever mentioned the curve rendering the tests ridiculous to begin with was right as well. I have mentioned that frustration in the past many times… still beating head against wall!)

By high school teacher

March 22, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

I wonder who the elementary schools blame?

I had a principal years ago who shared this little poem with us.

Said the community college instructor, “Such rawness in a student is a shame, Lack of preparation in high school is to blame.”

Said the high school teacher, “Good Heavens, that boy’s a fool. The fault, of course, is with the middle school.”

The middle school teacher said, “From such stupidity, may I be spared. They sent him up to me so unprepared.”

The primary teacher huffed, “Kindergarten blockheads all. They call that preparation… why, it’s worse than none at all.”

The kindergarten teacher said, “Such lack of training never did I see. What kind of a woman must that mother be?”

The mother said, “Poor helpless child. He’s not to blame. His father’s people were all the same.”

Said the father at the end of the line, “I doubt the rascal’s even mine.”

By Mathematician

March 22, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

There is lots of talk about the comparison between U.S. students and foreign students, but the comparison often is not valid because of the difference in societal/educational structures. Consider a India, for example, whose educational system is based on the Brittish model. At the middle school age, the children are required to take an exam that determines whether they will attend a Level A (high) school or a Level B (high) school. If you score high enough, then you are allowed to attend a Class A school, which rigorously prepares you for college. Otherwise, you must attend a Class B school, which prepares you for a regular job. So, when we compare incoming college freshman from the US and a place like India, we’re comparing their most advanced and well-equipped students with all of ours. But what if colleges in the US only accepted students from “prestigious” private schools, would we still rank as poorly. The US system is structured in a way that all students have the opportunity to attend college, whereas many countries weed out students who they determine will never make it and only allow a select few to be trained for college.

By Jeff

March 22, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

HST2:

Jump ships to some other field. You’re almost guaranteed more money and less headaches. I’m starting to become under the impression that the only way the current educational system will change is by MASSIVE revolt - as in NO ONE accepts a job as a teacher. Force it to its knees without having to have a union calling for a strike…. (And even in GA, if it was simply a word of mouth deal and everyone rejected their next contracts, nothing could be done….)

By HS Teacher Too

March 22, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

I love the kids too much though. When I can just do my job, I love it. I left teaching actually to go to law school (think I’ve mentioned this in the past) but with the express purpose of being able to make a difference in education — in other words, advocating for TEACHERS, not administation or the gov’t. But as much as I enjoy my current life as a student, I miss teaching — miss the kids — every day.

Besides, every job has its bad days, and probably not as many other jobs have good days as great as teaching good days can be. :)

I know you had a really bum deal where you were, but I’ve been in more than one system — in Georgia and elsewhere — and it’s not that bad everywhere.

By JustMe

March 23, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

high school teacher….

I am so tired of people that claim that high school blames the middle school and so on. This is a tired cliche’.

The fact is that middle school does social promotion. This means that students do not have to learn anything or pass anything (to include the CRCT) and they get promoted to the next grade and then on to high school knowing NOTHING.

So, yes, it is the fault of middle school!!!!

And, if social promotion happens in elementary school, then yes, it is the fault of elementary school.

We absolutely MUST stop this practice at all levels. It does no good for the students, our children.

By Lisa B.

March 23, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

Just Me,

We’ve had this talk before. None of us agrees with Social Promotion, until we have a 13-year-old comparative giant or “hot mama” sitting in our classes next to 10-year-olds. At that point, no matter how the kid performs, we “promote” him or her to the middle school. Of course, the child doesn’t have the skills to succeed, continues to grow bigger or “hotter” and the middle school bumps him or her up to High School. What a nightmare. We have to do something different when kids are retained. They already failed the grade the way it was taught the first time. Its ridiculous to think the old methods will work the second (or third) time around.

By JustMe

March 23, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Lisa B. -

And I totally disagree with that (social promotion) regardless of how large or how “hot” they become. Their size or “hot-ness” will not enable them to magically know the content in order to pass.

This must be stopped at all cost!!!!

If you don’t want a giant or someone “hot” in the room after failing a given number of years, then send them to an alternative school. In any case, do NOT promote them to the next grade.

Bumping them to high school will only mean another certain drop-out.

By Lisa B.

March 23, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

I agree with you, Just Me. We need to have some alternative classroom environment for those children who cannot, or do not succeed in a regular class. Social Promotion is wrong. I think schools keep doing it out of desperation because choices are so limited. As it is now, Alternative School is primarily for misbehaving children. That’s not a good place for struggling students.

By V for Vendetta

March 23, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

Mathematician,

Maybe that’s what we SHOULD be doing. Of course that would mean more choices given to students for technical training, but I don’t think that’s such a bad idea. Maybe Europe has it right and we have it wrong.

By jim d

March 23, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

What we should be doing?

Deron Boyles has a great plan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCsu9xwAZJo

By JustMe

March 23, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

Lisa B. -

You are wrong about alternative schools. My sister is a Principal at an alternative school. There are many reasons why a student would attend, and it is not just due to bad behavior…… there are family issues, as well as others.

In her school, teachers give individual academic attention to ensure the students success, regardless of WHY they are there.

By Jeff

March 23, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

JustMe:

First, I am a product of an alternative school. Second, I have worked in all levels of society in GA.

Let me tell you this:

1) “teachers give individual academic attention” is BS in the majority of alternative schools. Simple reason: In any given period, they may be running up to 5 different classes (such as Concepts of Problem Solving, Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Geometry, and Statistics). The BEST you’re likely to see in an alternative setting is a class run similarly to a “normal” school, with a quarter of the students in the class (compared to a normal school’s class size). Most often, however, most “learning” is done by the student teaching themselves and asking the teacher any questions they have.

2) In rural GA - and even quite freqently in the metro ATL area - alternative schools for anything other than behavior are pretty well extinct. (Though you may see some private ones, or even public ones RARELY. The public ones that do exist for non-behavior issues are generally in the regional cities, such as Savannah, Macon, Columbus, Valdosta, and Albany.)

By Lisa B.

March 23, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

Just Me,

I am relieved to hear not all Alternative Schools are like the one in my school district. In fact, I hope your sister’s school is the norm. What you describe is what I have always felt Alternative School should be. However, I’m afraid that down here in rural South Georgia, what Jeff’s post describes is more typical. Another blogger named Monica has described her Alternative School, and it sounds fabulous. Those who make the rules for education really need to get away from the “one size fits all” mentality.

Back to the topic, I have great hope that the new math GPS standards will improve the dismal math scores in Georgia. My hopes may turn out to be wishful thinking, but obviously what we have been doing is not working.