Get Schooled

By Stacey

March 14, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

The thought of my child encountering a sexual predator scares me to death, but there is only so much the school system can do. If a person has never been caught, nothing will show up on a background check. Now, I have heard rumors (I have no documentation) of people “suspected” of being predator just being transferred to other districts and I do have a problem with that.

We live in a scary world where predators are at school, church, amusement park…even Grandma’s house. I can’t be there around the clock so I just have to pray and trust that the “safety nets” work to catch most of the perverts.

By SET

March 14, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

Oh, there’s lots they can do to prevent these problems but they have no intention of doing anything. You see part of Marxist fantasy includes blocking accountability. Unfortunately for them, once you start taking this poison it creeps into every area of your thinking. You become functionally impaired. They can’t see red flags for what they are anymore.

Left wing loonies (and I can tell you from long experience as someone who is in the business of risk management, among other things) actually practice what they preach. So they won’t “judge” or “discriminate” - or doing so makes them uncomfortable so they do a bad job. So they are notoriously prone to being victims. Schools are increasingly (since 1960?) indifferent on background investigations prior to hire, weak on training & supervision and lackadasical on discipline of staff as well as students. It’s all part of the “anything goes” approach - and of moral relativism.

This is what they get. They eventually lose the ability to defend themselves -from everybody, not just the sexual compulsives.

By SET

March 14, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

Stacey: Your child will encounter “sexual predators”. All through the formative years - till age 30 or so. After that your kid is usually less popular to them.

Your problem is that neither the 3rd party nor the child will think of them as sexual predators is many cases. Their just plain folks, relatives and friends. I wouldn’t rely on those safety nets you mentioned. The government does it’s level best to conceal the true record and dangerousness of all people.

As long as you (& child) think of “predators” as a Frankenstein Monster with bolts in his/her neck you are behind the times. While you may actually encounter one of those, you are far more likely to run into a pleasing personality who will tell the kid anything they might want to hear. (Starting with flattery and expressions of “love”.)

And let me tell you they are in the church.

Your kid will wear better if you have routine and frank discussions about what goes on in the world whenever this subject comes up in the news.

By JustMe

March 14, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

School systems do everything possible to prevent hiring people like this. They finger print and do extensive back ground checks. They verify previous employment and follow up with references listed as well as speaking with previous employers.

I am sure that if there was ANYTHING else that could be done, they would do it. No Principal wants a sexual preditor on campus.

It angers me that those types of people still slip through the cracks. However, I want to point out that “bad” people slip through the cracks much more often in the business world. The difference here is the publicity when one occurrance happens in the schools.

By high school teacher

March 14, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

Not only do new employees have to be finger-printed, they also have to pay for it! Talk about a shock that first year when I had to shell out $24 when I wouldn’t be receiving a pay check for 60 days! Granted this was 13 years ago - what’s the current charge for fingerprints?

I would say that administrators do as much as they can to avoid this type of situation. Unfortunately, it still happens. Get to know the people who take care of your child. Your awareness of your child’s teachers goes a long way. If your child is asked to stay after school to make up work or to attend a club meeting, verify the request with the principal. Make sure your child is not the only one who will be with a teacher. Pro-active methods by parents help too!

By SET

March 14, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

JustMe: As long as you are trying to screen for the “bad” people you don’t get it. I’ve personally interviewed a 100 sex offenders and reviewed many more cases than that. Only a small number of actual cases are ever reported - because the players have their own reasons to stay out of the courts (some of them married each other…).

Sex offending is a lot about lifestyles (as in alternative) and about compulsive behavior. Most of the reporting “victims” I’ve seen were unsupervised children of druggies, drunks and single women. I could be more blunt about this, but you get the point. To put it mildly - most of the stuff that crosses my desk was as forseeable as hell. As awful as some of the sex acting out is, I have worked with many cases of mutilation (as in the victims have to be surgically reconstructed). And these were victims of drug sharing acquaintences of the victims and the victim’s parents.

This is why you don’t allow druggies in your schools even as janitors. This is why you don’t want teachers including subs who are so “counterculture” and “alternative lifestyle” that you, as the hiring authority, have no way of knowing where their standards begin and end. When you veto these appointments you will have liberals all over you whining about discrimination and bias. (right… it’s called judgment…)

Stopping trouble from moving into your school (or business) involves judgement & discretion at an almost subconscious level, and the moral fiber to act on your beliefs. It’s not what school administrators are about nowadays.

Just hope you don’t have to testify before congress about it!

By Stacey

March 14, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

SET…I agree that predators are everywhere and I don’t think of them as “Frankenstein Monsters”. As I stated in my post, they are everwhere kids congregate and that is exactly what scares me. Believe me, I talk to him often (he’s 6) about “inappropriate touching / conversations”. He knows that it is not ok for ANYONE, not even Mommy & Daddy touch him inappropriately. I’ve heard reports 9 and 10 year old kids molesting other kids! My husband and I have taught him that it’s not okay for adults to ask kids to keep secrets.

I was proud (and slightly embarrassed) when he screamed at his pediatrian for “trying to look at his private parts” during an examination (I was in the room the whole time). The doctor told him how proud he was for speaking up and he also told him that Mommy and Daddy aren’t allowed to “touch” him.

By V for Vendetta

March 14, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

Of course there is no easy solution to this problem, in fact, there might not be ANY plausible solution to this problem. What we can fix however, is how we treat these types of people as a society. Child molestors (aka: sexual predators) should be executed, plain and simple. There is no rehab for something as heinous as molesting a child (similarly there is no excuse or rehab for raping a female) and I feel that when you violate the rights of another person in such a terrible way, your personal right are immediately thrown out the window.

Start killing them and see if they can stifle those sick urges of theirs.

By thomas

March 14, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

No, there is nothing these administrators could have done. First of all the people had clean criminal records. Secondly, even if there was a personnel background check, that probably would have come up clean too.

The bottom line is that we don’t know if these events even happened. It seems to me that I keep seeing the same “scary” looking men accused of something funny. How do these men even have the opportunity to do something obsidious in the first place? Most teachers are almost never alone with students anyway.

I think it is a sign of the times. There are still a few evil people in the world. I just hope that most of these accusations are false or overhyped. If not………..

By Lisa B.

March 14, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

V,

I think we’d have far fewer discipline problems, child molestation problems, etc., if you were in charge :-)

By Hmmm

March 14, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/03/14/teacher.walkout.ap/index.html?eref=rss_education

By SET

March 14, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

V for Vendetta: No, “they” should not be executed.

I don’t believe you and most of the public have any idea of the size of this problem. When you see your sons, brothers, husbands and fathers in the dock for “child molestation” you’ll be yelling for your lawyer.

For one thing you need to settle on the definition of “Child Molesting”. In CA and most states you can commit this by words alone, or gestures alone. There is no requirement to touch the child. And that charge comes with lifetime sex offender registration. Remember this is an accusation that is very easily made with no penalty for false accusations (Twana Brawley and Al Sharpton, the Lacross Team incident, etc.)

Next this is what is a “child”. In Other nations, including the UK, the age of consent is not the same as age 18, the CA age of consent. (And there’s nothing dumber than a 18 year old.) V, do you want to “execute” every Mexican or Southeast Asian for doing what’s normal in their culture - having sex with eager teens? And while we are at it, V will you “execute” a 18 year old girl who has sex with her 16 year old boyfriend - who by the way is heavier and taller than she is?

When you really experience the joy of multiculturalism you will have some real problems on your hands about the US sex laws. I’m not advocating we change, quite the opposite. But “execute them”?

I agree we need to exterminate violent psychopaths in the US Society. I have no problem with public executions at all. I also have no problem with forced sterilizations (psychopathy is believed to be genetically transmitted, etc.)

But I have a real respect for due process (Not as practiced in CA Death Penalty Cases - as practiced in 1960.) You can’t go around “executing” people whose acts are not sufficiently malicious - much less people who are doing what is common practice in their own culture. Deport them maybe. Flog them, like Malaysia (for correction) if the facts are reasonable.

It is not as easy as you think to deal with sex cases, that’s why juries regularly acquit people charged in them here. And that’s why many cases are never filed - because the only evidence you have is one person’s word against another (the very definition of reasonable doubt) and sometimes they are both lying.

By SET

March 14, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

V: Your comment, “something as heinous as molesting a child” is interesting since Annoying or Molesting A Child in CA is a misdemeanor (the most serious misdemeanor on the books, granted).

Misdemeanors don’t exactly shock me on the heinous scale. Not anymore anyway.

Remember the majority of those charged with forcible rape are under 25 - and there’s a lot of them charged in juvenile court nowadays. Many “forcible rapes” in juvie are reduced to stat rape because in the end they were all underage, all drunk/high, and there’s no sign of a struggle, and oh yes, it had been going on for a long time (every Friday Night for a month…). So much for force.

Now Lewd & Lacivious on a child under 14 is a different story - a major felony. Likewise Forcible Rape, Sodomy & Oral Cop on a minor, etc. Those are major felonies.

There is a difference between non-contact sex cases, consenting underage sex between those who might be expected to eventually marry (if marriage was in their culture, which it’s not for some), and predatory violent attacks on strangers let alone stranger children. I believe there is more going on in some catagories as opposed to others. It is still very rare to have children forcibly raped. It’s not unusual to have sexually active 13+ year olds. What should we do about this?

Back to the topic we need school staff who are firmly aware of duty and responsibility and who don’t identify with the students as peers, friends or companions. A high level of self control is good also. So exactly how does the district screen for this?

By jim d

March 15, 2007 8:47 AM | Link to this

Just out of curiosity, does anyone have the stats on how often this happens (more or less) in states that have legalized prostitution? Does it have any affect?

By WFC

March 15, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this

I don’t have any stats on this, so my comments are mostly perception. I do believe that schools are actually safe in regard to actual physical sexual misconduct in comparison to many, many other situations. I’m talking about the “every-parent’s worst nightmare” cases here, not 18 year-old seniors hooking up with 23-year old teachers or inappropriiate flirtations. To wit:

• I believe that young girls are in much more danger from “mom’s new boyfriend” than they are from their teachers.

• I believe that young boys are in much more danger from priests than they are from their teachers.

• Schools are relatively safe because there are relatively few opportunities for “one-on-one” encounters. The most common opportunities occur when parents use the schools as babysitting services. My son played after school sports for many years. Either my wife or I was there five minutes before the end of practice. We attended every game. Everyone (including other parents) knew that we were paying attention. Many other parents left their kids hanging around school til “whenever.” Don’t give me the “oh, but I’ve got to work” excuse. We both worked.

Schools, of course< are not entirely safe. I just believe that media coverage of the most sensational cases skews our perception of this problem.

By jim d

March 15, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

WFC,

While these high profile cases bring these incidents to light We really should be appreciative of the press they garner. It makes us even more aware that we need to be most concerned about, family, friends — people who have access to our children on a regular basis.

Since most kids are abused by people they know. I think we need to keep in mind that yes sexual predators may be teachers, doctors, or any of a thousand other professionals that we entrust our children to every day. We must also be mindful that offenders usually repeat, this in itself lends to a predatory teacher being caught. I suspect this might be one of the reasons we so often pick up a paper and read about a teacher that has been accused. Keep in mind though that statistics indicate a clear 20% of children that claim sexual abuse, recant their stories later in life, as adults.

By jim d

March 15, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

WFC,

I agree schools are realatively safe. I forsee them even becoming safer.

The good news is there has been a dramatic drop in cases. Government figures show the rate of sexual assaults against adolescents ages 12 to 17 plunged 79% from 1993 through 2003, and the number of substantiated sex-abuse cases involving kids of all ages fell 39% in the same time period.

Reasons for the decline? Greater incarceration of offenders, more therapy and use of psychiatric drugs, economic improvement in the 90s and heightened public concern. Not to mention the “National Online sex-offender registry”, which now links the registries of many states and the District of Columbia.

Web site, www.nsopr.gov

By first time

March 15, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

Castrate all CONVICTED child/adult molesters/rapists. That would solve the problem.

By Lisa B.

March 15, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

Thanks SET for the clarification of terminology. When I hear “child molester,” I automatically think of rape, etc. of a younger child.

Still, when we have situations where adult teachers have sex with 15, 16, or 17-year-old students, even if the sex was consensual or even initiated by students, it is just plain wrong. Who is the adult here? Certainly teacher with such poor judgment should not be in our schools.

By Lisa B.

March 15, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

The statistics cited in Jim D’s post are great news! Thankfully, something is working.

On the flip side though, are the false accusations. I had a student in 4th grade one year who would tell all sorts of lies to get back at teachers or to distract attention from her poor grades and behavior. By the time she was in 7th grade, she’d figured out that the best way to get back at her male math teacher was to report that he “touched” her. Two or three of her friends jumped in on the accusations. The poor teacher had left the profession by the time the whole thing was sorted out.

Unfortunately, when I read about accusations by students, I ofter wonder if the accusations are even true. A few liars sure mess things up for honest people.

By OldSchool

March 15, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

When I took a School Law and Ethics course a few years back, the most valuable thing I learned was that anyone, private citizen, teacher, administrator, whoever, can contact the Professional Standards Commission with a complaint or suspicion of unethical or predatory (is that the word?) behavior by any school system employee. The PSC will investigate and determine if action is or is not warranted and will take appropriate action.

Too often, students will complain about inappropriate actions by school system adults and, although those actions are widely known to be true, the Good Ol’ Boy network circles the wagons around the perp and a warning to behave is all that happens. I know of incidents like this…male teacher massaging a female student’s shoulders and “accidental” contact that is too obvious to be accidental. People get reassigned or are allowed to simply move on to other schools.

Students, parents, and all others need to speak up. Right is right and everyone in a school system has the right to be safe and to feel safe and to know they will be protected.

By V for Vendetta

March 15, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

SET,

Thanks for the clarification. In your field, I’m sure you know the letter of the law a lot better than we do.

In a perfect world you could draw a line in the sand. I know my proposal is unrealistic because our court system doesn’t necessarily - what’s the word? - WORK. I think that the physical act of touching someone inappropriately is where the line should be drawn. Also, as you stated this would get a lot of teenagers in trouble. Of course, our stigma over teens “doing it” comes more from our puritanical ancestory than anything else and we are kidding ourselves if we act shocked at the news a freshmen in high school is having sex.

I say set the bar low in age, maybe around ten years old. I know it is impossible to draw an arbitrary line on a topic like this, but I’m willing to give it a try.

If we set the bar low there should be know doubt about what (real) molestation is. Lewd comments and inappropriate behavior could be curbed by heftier jail sentences, but physical acts should result in swift and immediate executions. I don’t think anyone would have any qualms about executing someone who molested a ten year old child.

I know, I know, there are a lot of loopholes in this theory. There are a lot of things that could be argued about and we would be battling semantics in many cases, but by setting the bar at a level we could all agree on and making the punishment so severe (and let’s face it, it needs to be) perhaps as I said before we could stifle the sick urges some of the monsters have.

What some would call cruel, I call the evolution of the species.

By SET

March 15, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

V: I pick juries in sex cases. They go nuts when they hear about the case during jury selection then sometimes end up taking diametrically opposite positions at the end of the case - those who wanted “understanding” want to hang someone, and those who wanted the guilty parties hung demand an acquital. It only takes one juror to hang a case.

The more extreme the view at the beginning of the case the more the drift at the end because the juror finds out that the case (victim) does not meet her or his idealistic view of right or wrong. There are a lot of shades of gray when you have to do these things. The open and shut cases usually plead and don’t go to trial anyway. And the more people learn about some of the victims, the less they like them. Women are the strongest defense jurors by far. Isn’t that something? Women will judge female victims by a tougher standard than the men. Women will give a male defendant a pass more often than another man will.

The majority of the sex cases I see are the least severe. The really bad cases are the most rare. That’s not what people expect.

Yes we need to put a stop to much of the sex behavior. But I’m telling you as one who is a big believer in public executions, it’s not as easy as you think it is to work with these people. It’s extremely rare to have a rapist come through the window at night. It’s extremely common to have a child molest charge thrown out during a divorce (if they were even married in the first place) or a lawsuit over which shacking up partner gets the pit bull.

You won’t like to hear this but after 25 years in the business I believe the primary remedy to a lot of this nonsense (that we see on Judge Judy and Jerry Springer show) is to bring back the laws against cohabitation, and to return to the old marriage, welfare & divorce laws. If we were to slow down and structure the bed hopping we’d all have more peace and stability - especially the kids who have to grow up with these goofy proletariat adults.

You see this in the public schools because in Urban CA in the black ethnic which simply put has the worst numbers, maybe only 10% of the students live with their married parents. That exposes a lot of kids to a lot of mother’s boyfriends - which are the single most dangerous category or males in their case.

And remember. The more severe the punishment the more convincing the proof must be (to most juries). And once the punishment is higher than killing the victim, the sex offenders will kill the victim and dump the body.

We can’t so what we want in crime and punishment, we have to do what works. You can get a lot of unintended consequences if you aren’t careful.

By jim d

March 15, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

Set,

Your take on Physical or Chemical castration for repeat sexual offenders?

By HS Teacher Too

March 15, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Jim d — an old editorial because your question got me thinking about whether chemical castration works, even though your question wasn’t directed to me.

Realizing this is a tangent, I wonder whether it would work even if the offender decided to take a “performance enhancer”?? I am distinctly not a biochemist so I have no idea how the two kinds of drugs would interact… And I will do some research of my own, but what about the idea that for the habitual offenders, it’s more than just the act, but also the mental aspect — to what extent does castration curb that part of it?

Maybe SET knows more about this and can shed some light.

By Stacey

March 15, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

SET…Thank you for your insight. Sadly, it seems that even when the victim is a child, people will try to figure out what the victim and/or parent did to cause the abuse. Personally, I don’t care if the mother has a different boyfriend staying over every night of the week, the SOB has no right to bother the child! That said, I do think that (in some cases) the parent(s) should be investigated to see if knew or should have known something was going on. I’ve heard of too many instances where mothers “were too scared” to stop the abuse. Granted, these were case where the abuse took place at home, but…

jimd…I know your question was addressed to SET, but I wonder how effective castration would be for some of offenders. A lot of molestation does not involve actual intercourse. Just my two cents.

By SET

March 15, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

Chemical castration is no longer on the table. The side effects are too damaging - bone density is wiped out and those patients can break their hip while sitting down - who get’s to pay for the hip replacement?

I believe physical castration should be required of all the most violent repeat offenders - sex offenders or not. By the time somebody has the 2nd or the 3rd or the 5th armed robbery/mugging conviction, carjacking, nighttime burglary of occupied dwelling, not to mention forcible rape… it’s time to take the balls. The only question is at what point to do this.. Mind you that I’m talking about 14, 15 and 16 year old offenders also. Most rapists are under age 25.

And make no mistake, black males by far are overrepresented in violent crime and would be getting a greatly disproportionate number of the castrations. This is no problem for me (no problem at all - I want results), but it is politically untenable in the current political environment. Simply put, we are not that desperate yet. If gas goes to $10 a gallon and stays there this will quickly become a different nation.

I do not believe in long prison terms. I believe we should begin to emulate Malaysia and Singapore in corrections using corporal punishment as a major tool with emphasis on halfway houses and rehab programs and possibly lifetime parole for those repeat offenders we don’t execute. Whip them, program them, and get them back to work.

I don’t buy 25 to life for the 6th garage theft. (In CA theft from an attached Garage of a home is residential burglary and a strike.) Our prisons are too expensive and should be put on a austerity budget. That budget would include withholding life saving medical treatment for the Hep-C prisoners who didn’t have their own money.

As reaching as these measures seem to be today - the USA is headed for collapse. In my lifetime unless we suddenly invent cheap energy. We won’t be able to print enough money to maintain our current standards and we will change dramatically.

By SET

March 15, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

first time:

No we shouldn’t castrate all convicted child molesters. 90% of first time convicted sex offenders will never appear in court with another sex offense. That is different from the stats on drug criminals, Drunk Drivers, Woman Beaters, etc.

Irrational emotional responses to a criminal or behaviorial problem not based on any stats will make things worse. If you make the punishment more draconian you will set the bar much higher for convictions, and make it worthwhile for even the friends and family of the accused to murder victims. Get a clue.

The penalties for 1st time molestors or at or above optimum level already. It’s the repeaters - the 10% of sex offenders who have 2 or more convictions - that we need to decapitate. Especially when the offender has a history combining criminal sex, criminal violence, and any criminal attacks on strangers (Predatory). These people do need to die or a close approximation of it. But these are a very small and very dangerous group of men who are not racially proportionate (Next to no Asians or Jews, for example.)

Focusing legislative attacks on them creates political problems. I don’t have a problem with that. Do you? In CA the Black influenced democratic party vetos most legislation of this type. That’s why 3 strikes had to be put through as a ballot inititiave promoted by the republician party as part of their elections campaign.

These issues are complicated by race and the budget. It is very expensive to pay for a prison bed in CA. Well over $100K a year per bed in operating expense not counting capital expense and litigation expense for the conviction and appeals. The reason I want the Singapore approach to be tried here is that I believe it has something for everyone, including the corrected criminal.

By SET

March 15, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

I don’t want to run on but I just remembered, sex crimes are often committed without intercourse - the castration issue is not only about stopping out of control sexual acting out. It’s about stopping out of control aggression. We have a problem with highly psychopathic males who basically run around biting people. Currently we imprison them forever in CA using 3 strikes. At fantastic expense. Adding a medical intervention combined with rehab might allow “outpatient” placement into live/work parole hotels. That’s my take on castration.

Psychopathy and criminal acting out can be looked at as a medical/behaviorial issue that can be “treated”. Or we can just shoot them. I’m really tired of $100K/yr + prison guards around here. We can’t go on with this fantastically expensive prison industry we have created.

By KA

March 15, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Education is the key and it starts at home. Every parent or caregiver must educate their children about their bodies, their personal space, and their right to privacy. Children can be trained how to respond to unwanted advances from strangers, family members, and friends of the family. Children must be taught how to find their voices, and to report their fears, and intrusions into their private space. Children must learn that respect goes two ways between themselves and those older or in authority. Children need to know that when others don’t respect them, they can and must report it to someone who can help them.

By SET

March 15, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

Stacey: In many cases around here the mothers were too busy using drugs with and without the offender to notice or stop the child molesting going on. And if you make them choose between the druggie lover and the kid - they may choose the lover and let the kid go. They “choose” by actions since they will promise anything on an hourly basis to get what they want, then go back to their drugs and druggie friends.

Then the kid gets dumped into group homes and such places where they really get molested - sometimes by the other kids… It’s a terrible situation.

By SET

March 15, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

KA: Genetics and culture is the key and that starts at home. The reason we have these problems is that some homes are unfit. Children raised by two loving, non druggie, educated and reasonably competent parents are not likely to get molested. They are also not likely to be in our CA Urban High Schools.

Public Schools need to give the students something beyond what they have from home. Discipline, education, and a set of rules for public deportment if not private deportment. Our schools publicly disavow this claiming that in the name of diversity we must respect the (permissive?) culture the kid comes from. I disagree.

I say we line these kids up in front of the building and walk down the rows of them with a clipboard. We tell them how to dress, how to stand and how to behave (including limiting the sex play with everybody but themselves). Marching in silence to their classrooms is a nice touch also.

I’m only preaching ‘cause I’ve had my taste I suppose.

By KA

March 15, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

SET, yes I know that some homes are unfit places for children to grow up in. There are also situations where the home is good, but the uncle is BAD, where a teacher is BAD, the after school program leader is BAD, where a clergyman, neighbor or father of kids that a teen babysits is BAD. ALL kids need to be taught; at home if possible, and at school, in church, wherever there are adults guiding children, taught to know when someone has crossed the line, when they need to TELL someone. If we train all the kids, then the ones keeping the shameful secret to themselves, or remaining silent because they think they are bad, or they did something wrong and will be punished, that these children will KNOW that the predator was the wrongdoer, not them!

By SET

March 16, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

KA: By using the term “BAD” you are still looking at the world in black and white. The world is largely full of shades of gray. And when it comes to bed hopping, the kids are getting into it themselves without a lot of help from the “Bad Man”.

The sex cases you see on the News may be easy to call. They are a minority of the problem.

What do you do when Little “Ann” (age 13) skips school to go smoke Pot an have sex with her new friend “Otis” (age 15) and while they are at it, Ann reports ending up at Antoine’s place having various sex acts with Otis, Tom, Dick and Harry (various HS ages)- all of whom were good and stoned. Ann goes to a counselor (a month later?) about her Chymadia or crabs acting up again, the cops are called, we have 4 or 5 versions about what happened (if you include Harry who has 3 witnesses that he was at the mall at all times relevant), and Ann’s counselor has convinced her that she was “raped” which was news to Otis who had exchanged commitment ring tones with Ann 2 weeks earlier. Antoine says you can’t blame him for this, because his piercings were healing and he just watched.

This is the face of sex crimes today. This is most of what we’re dealing with. And if these boys are tried as adults and are convicted as charged they face life in prison.

The boys’ parents consider Ann a Succubus. Let’s throw in cross racial issues to boot Maybe Ann is White and the Boys are Hispanic. Ann’s mother (no father) wants to sue the school district. Their dope dealer wants to be paid…

By the time the trial is ready to go Ann, now 14, is pregnant by her boyfriend Fred.

And she may even have well met the definition of rape because she was passing out from the drugs before the last round of sex…

Brave New World.

By KA

March 16, 2007 6:33 PM | Link to this

SET, I was saying BAD, not from a view of the world as black and white, but from my personal whitebread experiences, where from all appearance the children should have been protected from child predators, but they wern’t.

By SET

March 16, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this

Laws that were written to deal with intruders coming through a window at 2am and raping householders (rare) are being used to prosecute largely minority males 15 to 25 for extreme penalties in fact patterns where (to me) the only thing I am sure about is that they are all lying. (He says nothing happened, she says it was forcible rape.)

Most rapes are done by males under age 25. Most rapes are not stranger rapes - that is the players had more than 24 hours acquaintence. The majority of the fact patterns I see around here is where everybody involved was drinking or using drugs - often with each other (with little signs of violence).

Child Molests/Child Sex cases are a diffferent dynamic but nearly always the players were not strangers. Quite frequently the males are 15 to 25 themselves but there is a significant population especially in the minority male communities that have child sex into their 30’s and believe it’s normal (they don’t live in the real world). Around here we have plenty of cases where the child’s parent was well aware the 14-16 year old was sexually active and didn’t have a serious problem with it. If the girl was knocked up, they’d collect welfare. The male involved was welcome.

Pedophillia refers to sex with pre-pubescent children - usually under age 11. The term is wrongfully used to describe sex with pubescent teenagers. Actual Pedophillic activity is comparitively rare - the pubescent sex is an epidemic and people are going to prison for it…to their great surprise.

I’m fed up with the pregnancies, the venereal disease, the financial problems and all the drama from the teen sex cases. But the first timers in these fiascos aren’t the perfect monsters the public thinks all “sex criminals” are.

I do believe that stranger (predatory) rapes should get higher penalties but no state law has ever said that that I’m aware of. It is very difficult to word these (enhancement) statutes to target just the desired rapist type.

And this is a multicultural state. If you want to see dynamite go off, have a girl involved with a boy of a different race - is the “rape” accusation, upon discovery of the sex, made to try to keep her from being beaten to death by her family? An Indian college student assured me that he father would kill her and the white college student she was seeing if her parents ever learned of it. She broke up with him after 2 years of sneaking around. It was too dangerous. She was deadly serious. These issues can easily translate into a false rape allegation. Better to be a victim than beaten to death by your family. (and they can and will take the victim overseas to kill them)

Yes we have predatory sex crimes and they are serious. Far more (numerically) crimes are actually criminal underage bedhopping - for which people go to prison and may have to register as sex criminals.

I have personally lectured college aged boys 19+ (much less high school aged) about these dangers. I can tell you they don’t give a damn. Males under 18 are even worse if that’s possible to imagine. They refuse to believe anything bad can happen to them. The girls don’t care at all either. The behavior gets worse as the IQ drops.

By ChangedThinker

March 19, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Sorry, I don’t drop my child off at the local prison for daycare, so I think it stands to reason that I have some say in who is around my child at all times.

By JustMe

March 19, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

Ummmm, ChangedThinker, I think that you are confused….

The PSC does revoke teacher certifications. And, the school systems can clearly see what ‘new hire’ has current certification and who does not, online. I am not sure that this information is “public” information, but I know that it is possible to view within the profession. For example, I can logon right now and see my certification and the renewal date for it.

In addition, any new hire (in the school systems that I am aware of) must provide a hard copy of a current certification for hire.

If a particular school system does not ask for a hard copy of certification, and does not bother to look online to verify PSC certification, then they get whatever type of person they hire!

By ChangedThinker

March 20, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Dear JustMe,

I know that the PSC revokes certifications, but I truly think there should be totally different group that completes the actual investigation. Not the PSC - too much conflict of interest here.

Yes, when a new hire comes into a new school district they must supply a copy of a CURRENT license, but what about teacher’s who have PREVIOUSLY lost their licenses? What I meant was that it should be mandatory that a certification check (just like a criminal background) is completed on a teacher’s certification history. I know that the PSC should have a record for each teacher - most likely for the lifetime of their license. Each school district should have to request a copy of this record. This should be available for parent review at anytime.

Currently, you can call the PSC to check to see if a teacher has ever been investigated, but most parents are not aware they can do this because this is not public knowledge. School systems certainly do not divulge this information.

Your last comment about “they get whatever type of person they hire” is the type of attitude that hurts the students. It’s not the school system that gets hurt here. It’s the kids and that is what this is all about.

Thanks

By JustMe

March 20, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

ChangedThinker,

As I mentioned in my previous post, school systems can login, online, onto the PSC web site to view all certification issues about a current employee or a person in the interviewing process. I don’t know how much clearer this can be made to the school systems.