Get Schooled

By Jeff

March 8, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

School security in general is the biggest load of CRAP ever pulled on the American public.

Quite honestly, a Columbine or worse could happen anywhere, anytime, and there is almost NOTHING that could be done to stop it. The only reason it hasn’t yet is because we (fortunately) haven’t had anyone with the willpower to do so.

By JustMe

March 8, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

The police may have something here….

Maybe school Principals should have the authority to “fine” parents of unruely students. And, if the parents don’t pay up then they get jail time. Something like….

Students smoking at school: $50.00 Students with cell phones: $50.00 Students having sex in school: $100.00 Students hitting anyone: $100.00 Students preventing classroom lessons: $100.00 Students skipping: $100.00

And so on….

I like it!

By Janine

March 8, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

In my former middle school gangs were the norm. It is not illegal to belong to a gang, so there was little that the school could do about membership. However, the school could and did ban gang activity at school. That included “throwing” gang signs [hand signs ], writing gang grafitti on school property , recruiting members, etc. It was a huge problem, though. Enforcement was a full time job. After school, older members of the gangs from other schools, [or out of school] would be waiting outside our school, to pick up their girlfriends or threaten students. The community police often were waiting on the campus after school to deal with them. Controlling gangs and gang activity is a difficult task, possible because many of the parents of the Hispanic students are also in adult gangs and feel that their children need the protection.

By SW

March 8, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

Talk is cheap. Just as soon as the police get tough on gangs a gang of another sort will hit the streets screaming racism. A cop can make one mistake and kill a seemingly innocent person and all of a sudden the cops are a bunch of Nazis. Nothing of the sort is said when an officer is killed or when the officer kills in self defense. We know who most of gang bangers are but when you try to ‘identify’ them then you are profiling, its no win situation. I have lived in California, what the gangs have done to that place is beyond belief. Had the Los Angeles police department known thirty years ago what thye know know, that areas of their city would become all out battle grounds, I bet they would have done things very differntly. Allow the cops, school officials, whomever flex some muscle, have some authority and kick butt. Do you think the gangs play fair? It’s time to get tough, very tough.

By HS Teacher Too

March 8, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

JustMe,

I used to have a news article posted on my cork board in my classroom about a school in Connecticut that actually had police officers fining students (issuing citations, I believe) because swearing in the hallways was (if I remember correctly) swearing in public, which was in turn a civil offense … I will see if I can find that article online and try to post a link.

I realize this is a bit off-topic from the gangs question, but I have always wondered why schools DON’T pursue such policies when things get to that point.

By HS Teacher Too

March 8, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

Here is a Fox News Article about the fining of kids who swear in schools It’s not the best article but conveys the gist.

By Jeff

March 8, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

HST2:

I remember that article! It was actually in the AJC about a year ago.

By Lisa B.

March 8, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

Great ideas Just Me!!

I like it, too.

When we started jailing parents for the weekend when their children missed too many days of school, we had a massive drop in chronic absenteeism. At our high school, when students fight, the police take them to jail and the parents have to come pick them up (20-30 miles one way in some cases). Parents must pay $50 to get their kids out. We have other problems at our high school, but don’t have many fights (at least not on campus!)

As I write this, I wonder how the new laws about police reports putting schools on the dangerous list has impacted that local policy. I’ll have to find out.

By Rusty

March 8, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Cops,cops and more cops! I have NO problem with my tax dollars funding more cops. I’d much rather that money be used for the overall protection of my community and personal property, not the funding of these lowlifes throught sec 8 housing and govt social handouts. The idea of fines is a joke. Momma dont have it and Daddy gone.Buy more cops!

By JustMe

March 8, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

The money collected by the Principals from the school fines can go toward hiring more security guards at the school!

The more I think of this idea, the better it seems!! How can we push this through the GA legislation?

By Teacher

March 8, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

Many of the gang members are in school because the courst make them go back to school to stay out of jail. The courts put the problems back on the teachers and endanger everyones life. They seem to not care. Also, the gang members get lose in the crowd with the other disruptive students. They cannot be identified easily because so many other students act just like them. The schools need to start getting rid of the disruptive students and use the artunative schools more. Stop moving one disruptive student from one school to the next. Get rid of the disruptive students and you have gotten rid of most of the gang members with them.

By Teacher Teacher

March 8, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

The “security guards” throw dice and play cards with the kids at my school. If the kids pay the “security guards” cash, the “security guards” will turn a blind eye to skipping and leaving campus. One of my recalcitrant, BD, thug third-year sophomores told me that, when I quizzed him about why he reeked of smoke, he was smoking with one of the “security guards.”

What a joke. DeKalb’s gang unit is just for press purposes, no more.

By SET

March 8, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

If you think you can fine your way out of crime you are wrong. The underclass which are the principal component of crime won’t pay fines even if they hit the lottery. The only thing they understand is confiscation of all their toys, eviction from their homes, ineligibility for student grants and loans and drivers licenses, removal of their dogs and children and imprisonment.

So when authority gets tired of playing games with people we all know what needs to be done. As far as the schools go if they really want to block gang affiliated people from their facilities - which they don’t - all they have to do is identify them and get rid of them. As it is the schools won’t get rid of students who openly defy teachers according to what I read on this blog.

It boils down to discrimination and setting a standard that only certain people will be allowed to set foot on a campus and that doesn’t include those on a certain list. Yes you can discriminate. Yes, Discrimination is good. Currently the only discrimination openly practiced in public education is against registered sex offenders (who have a very poor lobbying effort - they need to incorporate and hire a lawyer).

The criminal gangs in California have mutated to become even more vicious than they were 25 years ago. We used to think The Crips were a problem. The Crips are being replaced by foreign gangs who are setting up shop across the United States. Meanwhile the “electorate” goes about their business blissfully unaware of the presence of a heavily armed foreign originated terrorist organization consolidating it’s power inside this state and across the USA. So much for a free press. Actually since the players are Mexican and South American they’re not really treated as foreign terrorists. Maybe they look like the gardening crew. And membership starts at puberty.

Actually, anybody who cares to open their eyes can recognize them. Get a clue about Tattoos & visuals. It’s not like they are undercover agents.

Diversity is great, right??

By Joy in Teaching

March 8, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

Juvenile courts do have a wonderful tendancy to force students to attend school. However, they do not force students to actually pass or behave when they are there.

I remember one “blissful” class where I had 15 students who were there because a judge told them to either go to school or to jail. They raised tee total #$%! all semester even though I sent them to the office and personally called their probation officer.

Lovely.

By jim d

March 8, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

just me,

Sex in schools = $100?

Kids will be looking for where that line starts.

By jim d

March 8, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Aw what a lot of jibberish.

Want to eliminate gangs in schools? ridding our society of poverty and descrimination would be taking a giant step in the right direction. But as long as we nothing—gangs will continue to flurish.

By Rusty

March 8, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Hey Jim D, Its always someone else’s fault isn’t it. How about some parental dicipline,some personal responsibility? “The man’s keepin me down” is tired old crap.

By jim d

March 8, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

Rusty,

Who’d I blame? I blamed society as a whole. Is there an answer? No, not really. Gangs of sorts have existed as long as man. I don’t really see that ever changing. The question is simply can we lessen the impact they have on society?

By HB

March 8, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

On a lighter note, I had a h.s. teacher who said the solution to gang problems was have the school approve the existing gangs as extracurriculars. Have Mrs. Smith advise the Crips, Coach Jones advise the Bloods…all the kids would quit the gangs before the first club fundraiser.

By jim d

March 8, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

Rusty,

The hard truth is that gangs exist to fulfill some needs people feel are lacking in their lives.

First is belonging. Usually the typical gang member is either an outcast of the community, or sometimes someone alienated from or by his/her family. They join a gang to achieve togetherness, and they find comfort in this group.

Second is financial. There is money to be made in the gang, usually through sales of illegal drugs, but sometimes through auto theft, extortion, prostitution, arson, or general thefts. And as the person works harder for the gang, the profit realized is increased as well.

Finally, there is strength, either real or perceived. Ther is no doubt strength in numbers, and that is what the gangs rely on for intimidation, networking of ther goods (ie drugs, stolen auto parts, etc.), and notoriety. When you hear a gang member say he/she does not like the attention, you know THAT one is lying! Ever see this guys on TV? Mugging it up, talking a mile a minute, but usually having their faces covered by the correct colored bandana.

These are a couple of the reasons gangs exist. There are no doubt many more that clinicians would point to, but these are the most prominent in my opinon.

That being said. Gangs will continue to flurish until we as a society are able to fill the void that allows them to exist.

By SW

March 8, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

Send each and every illegal in the US back home, you’ll get rid of a huge chunk of gangs. The Mexican gangs are making the old Crips and Bloods look like school kids they are so bloody mean. And Jim D you blooming idiot how do you rid a society of poverty? I grew up very poor but was never in a gang. Get rid of ALL ILLEGALS, have two parents in the home and spend more money and time on books and family time together than you do tennis shoes, is a good start. Lets face it, we know who the bangers are but politically correct wusses, how are ya Jim D ? …keep getting in the way.

By jim d

March 8, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

SW,

We can choose to treat the symptoms or we can choose to treat the cause.

Which do you choose?

Deporting huge groups of people won’t really do either.

By Lisa B.

March 8, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

SET, After further thinking on this, I believe you’re right about the fines not working. In my school system, students can’t have their report cards if they owe fines on lost or damaged library or text books. The fines are never paid, and the parents don’t see report cards. That probably serves some of the kids quite well.

I believe that reducing our nation’s underclass would reduce gang problems. I just can’t figure out how to minimize the underclass, when the ticket out is education, which seems not to be valued.

By SET

March 8, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

Lisa B: If the school gets a safe and paints bars on it and a sign “Cell Phone Jail”, they can confiscate and deposit the students CellPhones inside for just 48 hours. That creates such impact to the student that they will actually try real hard to behave for weeks. You can do this for most infractions, such as not bringing back the library book or maybe cursing out the staff.

If they don’t have a cellphone, jailing their ATM or Visa Cards for 48 hours really gets their attention also.

Even if they can borrow friend’s phones the very thought of having your Cell Phone publicly put in jail is almost too much to bear.

By SET

March 8, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

Jim D: There is no reason to be “ridding our society of poverty and descrimination(sp)”.

We are a free society or at least as free as it gets. The price of freedom is having some people choose (for themselves and their kids) to live in poverty and also having people freely choose to behave in ways that engender discrimination (self preservation for other people that freely choose not to deal with them). You are wrong to try to stamp these things out.

The Soviet Union as well as other Paradises on Earth tried at various times to have a Utopia and what always occurs is horror on an unimaginable scale.

Freedom is never free. We are rapidly destroying ours in the name of Utopia. When you remove the freedom to fail you have no other freedoms left.

Just look at our public schools.

By Jim in Marietta

March 9, 2007 8:21 AM | Link to this

Schools can do it! They only lack a few accouterments. Surround each school with a 20 foot high barbed wire fence, add some guards, add some windows bringing the building codes up to state prison standards and voila you have it! They can now keep the gangs out as effectively as the state prison system.

By Joy in Teaching

March 9, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

Jim in Marietta….

Um…I believe the state prison system has gang activity INSIDE.

By Jim in Marrietta

March 9, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this

Joy, Thank you. You just made my day.

By Lisa B.

March 9, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

SET, those are great ideas for high school and middle school students. My son will do ANYTHING to keep his cell phone, including household chores and maintaining straight A’s :-)

My 4th grade children don’t have cell phones, or anything else mentioned above. Of course, I don’t have gang problems in 4th grade either. My school system is in rural GA, and so far most gang activity is in the upper grades.

As always, I appreciate your posts. I agree with you that a free society cannot be rid of poverty. People often (barring catastrophic events) make choices that cause them to be poor. I hadn’t really thought of it that way. My 9 and 10-year-old students didn’t choose to be born poor, but some of them are already making choices that will relegate them to the same fates as their parents.

Love your comments Joy!

By V for Vendetta

March 9, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

Here is where we need to put our collective feet down. Here is where all of our venemous “administrators need to grow a spine” hatred should be directed. I’ve said it many times before … DISCIPLINE.

What I fail to understand is how these kids manage to stay within the confines of the public school system to begin with. This constant attitude that school is somehow a god given right sickens me. No one should ever be denied the CHANCE to have a free and public education, I can agree with that. But what I can’t agree with is the way some kids (and their worthless parents) spit in the face of that opportunity and are STILL herded back into the system when it is quite clear that they do not wish to be a part of it.

I truly believe that by the age of 14 (or around the same time a student is entering 9th grade), a child should know WHY education is important. As people like SET have said: education is a means to a better life and the one thing that divides the “haves” from the “have nots.” A kid might not enjoy school - heck, who does at that age? - but a kid should damn well know why he’s there. My parents made that abundantly clear to me from the beginning.

It is not hard to make it through school without getting into any kind of major trouble. Why we do not have some kind of blanket “three strikes and your out” rule is beyond me. I don’t really care what the offense is.

You got written up three times for discipline infractions? You’re out.

You were late to school or were caught skipping three times? You’re out.

You were written up for sleeping in class three times? You’re out. (I’m so not even joking about that one)

This is NOT a hard concept to understand. The kids who are there to truly get an education will not be affected AT ALL by a rule such as this. The kids with potential who just need a little scaring will also not be affected by this. Only the habitually bad kids, the trash, and the gang bangers will be affected by this. Now the questions becomes: what do we do with them?

That answer is not so simple. I say put the burden back on the parents or send them to some kind of alternative (very prison-ish) school. To be honest, I don’t really care what happens to them. I’m looking at this as a sort of social Darwinism. Let’s face it folks, the stupid, ignorant, criminal masses just keep having kids. One of these days, a few thousand years from now, we are going to look around and realize that intelligence has literally been bred off the face of the planet. It’s not a culture of stupid, it’s a VIRUS of stupid.

And it’s spreading.

By SET

March 9, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

V for Vendetta: I agree with you in principal but I live in CA and work as a criminal lawyer where I see the (unintended?) consequences of the CA 3 strikes law on a frequent basis. It’s no different in the schools. Taking away the discretion of individual teachers, staff and administrators and trying to enforce a rigid cookie-cutter discipline system goes too far the other direction. The whole thing becomes unworkable and tears down the respect and integrity of the system.

So in my experience a 3 strike system with built in flexibility - to a point - works best. This is what CA has tried to do. The largely black-influenced coastal areas honor 3 strikes almost as the exception, while the white (WASP?) controlled Central and Far North areas of the state enforce 3 strikes to the hilt with exceptions as exceptions. In both instances the locals aren’t complaining much anymore. If there was a single statewide standard we’d have civil war.

I strongly believe that discipline is a local matter within certain limits and the local administrators should be summarily fired if they are ever seen to have lost control of their schools. This system worked well up to the early 1960’s and it was the centralization of power from that point on and the attempt to impose specific rules from afar that seems to have led to the chaos we now have.

Local Control seems to work when people have to sleep in the beds they make.

By Lisa B.

March 9, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this

You go, Vendetta!

The most successful schools in Southwest Georgia have very strict discipline. Miraculously, the children behave. The few who truly have problems end up leaving. A close friend of mine has a son with Asberger’s Syndrome, and the strict, unyielding atmosphere of his school caused his parents to pull him out and move. In most cases however, students understand that consequences for infractions in these schools are swift and final. No crying, begging or getting Mommy in to help. Kids are not often kicked out. They comply.

We are WAAAAY too lax on kids today.

By Lee

March 9, 2007 6:40 PM | Link to this

JustMe, re “Maybe school Principals should have the authority to “fine” parents of unruely students.”

I might go along with that if parents could fine schools in a similar manner. For example:

• Sending home a letter with obvious spelling and grammatical errors - $5

• Failure to create a classroom condusive to good learning, one in which the teacher has to deal with a special ed kid 2-3 hours per day - $100

• Placing an illegal alien, who doesn’t have the required vaccinations, next to my child - $500

• Failure to provide a safe learning environment - $1000

• Or how about my favorite, teachers having sex with their students. What kind of price can you put on that.

We parents are already being fined - it’s called PAYING YOUR TAXES AND NOT RECEIVING THE SERVICES WE ARE PAYING FOR…