Get Schooled

By KA

March 7, 2007 8:11 AM | Link to this

If they want to eliminate the school age bullies, they should first eliminate the adult bullies who permeate the school systems administrations. I posted yesterday that I am reading this book; The No A*******hole Rule, get it on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/A*****-Rule-Civilized-Workplace-Surviving/dp/0446526568/ref=pdbbssr_1/102-1897248-2780148?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173225934&sr=8-1

By Jeff

March 7, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this

My gf, a SECOND GRADE teacher, had a kid threaten to shoot her assistant yesterday. She works in a good system that one of our fellow bloggers works in. This has happened before with the same student. He was removed from class yesterday. My best bet? He is labeled “bipolar” or some such nonsense and sent right back to her, adding more work, and more fear, to her day.

While I honestly don’t think it would happen - how many 8 year olds do you know that could plan, execute, and get away with such an attack - I told her to take reasonable precautions - check his book bag every morning, talk to mom, etc - and let it be for now. (By the way, another kid in second grade was ARRESTED yesterday for bringing a hunting knife to school and threatening his teacher with it.)

Overall though, I will give her county this: Had it happened to me at Randolph, NOTHING would have been done! At least they are treating this with the seriousness it deserves! (I’m still going to teach her some basic holds/ wristlocks when she comes to see me this weekend, knowing that she is NOWHERE NEAR as likely to resort to their use as I am, but also knowing that it could mean the difference in her getting hurt or not.)

By Michelle

March 7, 2007 8:31 AM | Link to this

All of those kids that brought guns to school and shot people had one thing in common: they were all targeted by bullies, mostly jocks. Until we have the same zero tolerance policies for bullying that we have for school violence, we are always going to be looking over our shoulders for another Dylan & Eric.

By Jeff

March 7, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this

Actually, Michelle, Jonesboro, AK, the kids were NOT picked on. They just wanted to shoot people. Padukah, KY, the kid had NOT been picked on. I don’t remember the story at Heritage High in Conyers. There was another case - in Portland, OR, I think - where a kid up and shot his parents, then went to school and started pulling the trigger.

Not ALL school shootings are because someone was picked on. And from what I’ve witnessed in the classroom, if certain kids - 98% of the ones getting “picked on” - would learn to KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT, they wouldn’t be picked on as much…

By Jon

March 7, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

A comment about “Jeff’s” entry: Are you serious? You actually believe 98% of kids that are bullied brought it on themselves? That is the most ridiculous excuse for why kids are bullied that I have ever heard. Most kids are bullied because they are viewed as being different (smaller, not as socially skilled as others, have some physical difference, lack self-confidence, etc.). By the way, are you a teacher? How have you witnessed this absurd “cause” of bullying?

By C

March 7, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

Jeff, you must have been the jerk picking on the kids.

If all kids were treated fairly and kids and teachers made to play by the rules, then you would have less bullying.

My daughter is now going to a private school because of school bullies. So I am paying tax dollars to send the bullies to school and I have to pay to send my daughter elsewhere. We met with the parents of the bullies and they refused to believe their little precious had anything to do with it, even when the kid owned up to it.

So Jeff, don’t even go there. If you haven’t experienced it, then you have no experience with it.

By Mike in Woodstock

March 7, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

I’m so glad Jeff is here to defend the bullies in our schools. Now I can go and have a productive day at work.

By teach overseas

March 7, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

I would acutally like to know if anyone has ever confronted the parents of a bully and had a sucessful outcome from the experience. Or like C- the parents refused to believe it or like Jeff- they claimed the kid brought it on themselves?

By Janine

March 7, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

In my school, there was less of the “I’m going to beat you up/shoot you/kill you” variety of bullying and more of the “You are so lame/ugly/stupid…..Ew!!!look at her/his old shoes/sweater/etc…Get away from us , you stink…. variety of bullying that beats up on the child’s psyche.

By teach overseas

March 7, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

I would acutally like to know if anyone has ever confronted the parents of a bully and had a sucessful outcome from the experience. Or like C- the parents refused to believe it or like Jeff- they claimed the kid brought it on themselves?

By SET

March 7, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this

Why do principals and teachers need specific instructions from the statehouse to handle brats in their schools? We hire these people to run the schools. They need only statements of general policy. Day to day operations is their provence. Let them do their jobs.

By JustMe

March 7, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

Let me boil everything down here….

If the administrators implement the PUNISHMENT for the trouble-makers (to include bullys), then we would be better off. Teachers know who the students are that bully, hit, act out in class, etc. The problem is that the teachers are not supported by the administration in terms of implementing the punishment.

Administrators either try to get the teacher to ‘deal with it’ or they simply ignor the problem so as not to get parents mad at them.

By KA

March 7, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

SET, It’s ironic that they are going to have this bully training in Georgia schools where teachers no longer correct bad behavior for fear of retribution from administrators and parents. Teachers cannot impose grade consequences for misbehavior. So how will this bully training be enforced and who will enforce it and with what consequences?

By Michelle

March 7, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

In my school, there was less of the “I’m going to beat you up/shoot you/kill you” variety of bullying and more of the “You are so lame/ugly/stupid…..Ew!!!look at her/his old shoes/sweater/etc…Get away from us , you stink…. variety of bullying that beats up on the child’s psyche.

That’s exactly what I’m talking about, how does a child bring that on himself?

By Libby Blackwell

March 7, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this

Having a daughter that was bullied in Elementary school and still bears the scars, now in 11th grade, I totally believe the Bill is necessary. Middle and High School bullying is pretty obvious, but Elementary School teachers and administrators need training on how to spot and deal with it as well. Yes, let’s educate our educators!!!

By Janine

March 7, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

Set…Don’t we all wish. Back in the day, if a teacher or principal had heard “bullying”, he / she would have threatened to , let’s see, what was that favorite phrase..*”Jerk a Knot in you”.Now , however, it’s just not going to happen without the certainty of support from “above”. And we all know, that certainty is no longer there.

By Jeff

March 7, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

A) I WAS bullied as a kid (and I freely acknowledge that I did things that made it worse).

B) I saw it happen quite frequently in classes I taught. One kid in particular, P, would constantly respond to people, and that just made the situation worse, to the point that quite frequently he felt he had to throw a tantrum or hit someone - which only caused HIM to get in more trouble, not them.

I acknowledge that there is SOME bullying that cannot be stopped simply by minding your own business and ignoring people. I simply say that percentage is FAR lower than most give it credit for.

By HS Teacher Too

March 7, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Has anyone any information on how schools would handle the latest and greatest bullying, which is to say online bullying? Anonymity affords kids so many opportunities these days … and the maliciousness can be even worse than face-to-face bullying; but is it really the schools’ place to step in to police this forum? Can they, even?

By HS Teacher Too

March 7, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

The first link is a bit dated but the second is more current.

USA Today article on online bullying

MSNBC article

The law discussed in this blog seems to want to police online bullying perpetrated on school’s computers. I’m no internet lawyer — can schools also police what happens outside of their networks?

By Jeff

March 7, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

BTW:

Y’all aint even in my UNIVERSE when it comes to getting bullied. Back in the day (until just after I turned 11), when I lived in a trailer park, I LITERALLY had to step off the bus every day running the quarter mile to my house and lock BOTH doors to avoid getting beat up.

If HALF the crap I went through happened to your kids, you would be screaming bloody murder. Me? It was just something I dealt with and learned from.

But y’all would probably demand more laws, placing even MORE stress on cops, teachers, and bus drivers, who already have too much on their plates.

What happened to FREEDOM AND RESPOSNSIBILITY y’all? Step up and be a PARENT! Got a kid bullying your kid? Tell your kid to deal with it in any LEGAL way necessary, but that if he gets caught breaking the law, not only will he answer to a judge, he’ll answer to YOU. Then make sure that he knows that the judge will be the LEAST of his problems at that point!

By Ginger

March 7, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Just because that was your experience, Jeff, does not mean it is the experience of others. I was also bullied in high school and completely ignored the boy. It didn’t make it better, he didn’t leave me alone. It made it worse. What finally stopped him was taking a crowbar to his head in front of a Dunkin’ Donuts where the kids gathered. He never bothered me again.

By Sarah

March 7, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

I was bullied in elementary school by a jealous cousin and really did nothing to deserve it. How did my teacher respond? By sending ME to the principal’s office (b/c I cried almost daily due to the horrible things that were being said/done to me). When my mother spoke to my teacher and my cousin’s mother it made things worse for me at school and ended my mother’s friendship with my cousin’s mother.

It got to the point that my cousin solicited other people in our 5th grade class to bully me. The situation came to a boiling point when a black student wrote “I hate (insert racial slur here),” tossed the note under my desk, then pretended to find it and announce to everyone that I was racist. My teacher took the note and quickly realized the handwriting was not mine, but nothing was done to the student who was responsible. This continued on into middle school and didn’t stop until we reached high school and I no longer had classes with my cousin or her friends.

When I was being bullied I tried to play sick and skip school but my mom wouldn’t let me. I frequently thought about suicide (when you’re a kid your friends and being liked by people in general are a HUGE deal). Thankfully I never did anything to harm myself. But it’s still very disturbing to me b/c I know I’m not the only person out there who has been or is being seriously impacted by bullying.

By Jon

March 7, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

Teach overseas - I have a child in middle school who was bullied constantly during 5th and 6th grade. We tried the “Jeff” approach instructing him to ignore it and the bully will leave you alone. Did not work. We tried school administration route with no results. So I went to the kid’s house to speak to the parents and was subsequently issued a court summons for a bench warrant hearing submitted by the parent (single mom) accusing me of threatening and harrassing behavior. (btw - I did not threaten anyone). The parent refused to believe that her little angel could be a bully. The judge saw right through this and dismissed the case. The judge instructed the bully’s mom to contact the school and get to the bottom of the root cause of the problem. As of today, she still has not contacted the school. The bullying did stop but I think it had more to do with the bully having to testify and lie in court about his behavior. He came out of the courtroom crying like the little coward he really is.

By Jo

March 7, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

Jeff, when my mom was in junior high, she was bullied by a girl who was jealous of my mother’s (prettier) looks & excellent grades. One day, my mom had had enough, she threw the girl down on her back & stomped on her stomach so hard the brat had to be hospitalized. She never went anywhere near my mother again. Moral of the story?? Whatever it takes!

By V for Vendetta

March 7, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

Lets be honest here, what is the root cause of bullying? That’s easy, PARENTS! Either the parents are bullies themselves or they have ignored their little angels bullying tendencies. A kid caught bullying should be dealt with swiftly and decisively. Any repeat offenders should be expelled NO QUESTIONS ASKED. I do have something to say though that I fear will make me a bit unpopular …

Part of me DOES understand what Jeff is getting at. Perhaps he did not phrase it in the most PC manner (aren’t we all a little sick of PC though?), but I understand where he is coming from. In SOME cases, the kids need to do a better job standing up for themselves or cease the behavior that is causing the problem. In SOME cases, the kids being bullied are happy to have the attention so they continue the behavior that causes the problems with their fellow students. I have to admit, when I was growing up we dealt with bullies on our own. You either ran or you fought. Granted, the situations are slightly more dire now that kids have access to knives and guns, but there are a number of problems that could be solved with a little old fashioned standing up for yourself.

In any case, the root cause of bullying can ALWAYS be traced back to the parents. Take the fight to their doorstep, but be smart about it. If the school is not going to help your child, find a teacher that is willing to listen and come up with a way you can end the bullying ASAP. I don’t think this is something that requires more legislation, I think this is something that requires a lot of people to stand up and grow a pair. I hate to be that blunt about it, but what we need is action, not more paperwork.

By SNY

March 7, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

As you all know, my daughter attends private school and she was getting bullied by a little boy in her 4th grade class. This little brat punched her in the stomach and hit and kicked her several times. It finally got to the point where I called the administrator and told her that if that boy put his hands or any other body part on my child that I would have the police up there to arrest him for assault. She finally stopped it but I also told my daughter that the next time he hit her, she was to haul off and knock his f*ing block off. She did it too. I was so proud of her. As of this day, he tells everyone that she has the hardest punch and not to mess with her. Sometimes, the child being bullied just has to stand up once and the parents need to be ready for any consequences that come their way for it. I didnt mind my daughter having ISS for hitting him. What I did mind was that when we had chapel a couple of Wednesdays ago, I found out that his mother had no clue about anything that was going on. I had a long talk with the administration on that one. Bullies are everywhere and we have to teach our children how to deal with them. If we don’t, we are setting them up to be victims. I don’t know about the rest of you parents, but I did not go through 13 hours of labor for my baby to be someone else’s punching bag.

By Phil

March 7, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

Part of the problem is the school and the police. My son had a bullying problem last year. I went to the school and the police and I was ignored. The principal didn’t want any bullying incidents on her record and the police told me it was a school issue. I had students write letters to the school with what they witnessed. Finally the student was removed from the bus and his father showed up at my house, while I was not home, to intimidate my wife.

My son is now in Private School…

By Jo

March 7, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

SNY, that is an example of good, positive parenting. So many parents are reluctant to teach their daughters to stand up for themselves because it’s “unladylike”. Oh, puh-LEEZE! People, if your kids are being assaulted & harrassed, by the way, threaten to sue the school system. MONEY TALKS!

By JustMe

March 7, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

Um, guys…. thanks for sharing your personal bully stories, but we are off of the track a bit.

IMHO, this bill and the cost is a waste of time, effort, and money. Most all teachers know the problem students - it is no secret. We can easily see who are the bullys, trouble-makers, rule-breakers, etc. We do not have to sit through a $10,000 hour long staff development meeting to identify those students.

The problem is the lack of consequences for those students. The problem is how to stop this bad behavior.

I would rather spend the $10,000 to grow administrators a spine to punish those students and to stand up to the bully parents.

By Jeff

March 7, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

JustMe:

regarding the true problem:

AMEN!!!

By Jon

March 7, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

V for Vendetta: You say “take the fight to their doorstep” meaning the parents of the bully right? Well, look what that got me. And what do you mean by “be smart about it”?

After this experience my approach to the bullying issue has changed. Right or wrong, I have instructed my child to stand up for himself no matter what. I told him that he will probably be in trouble with the school administration but not with me. I would rather he get in a fist fight now than become so tired of the bullying that he does something extreme (i.e. Columbine, etc)

By Rick in Lawrenceville

March 7, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

If you have the money, try filing a civil lawsuit against the bully and his parents. Even if you lose, the bullies parents will also pay in time and dollars and I bet the bullying will stop.

By HS Teacher Too

March 7, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

JustMe, Couldn’t agree more.

Throwing this out there — is the lack of consequences as a whole merely a response to a fear of litigation? If so, the fear is misplaced b/c the administrators ought to fear lawsuits from bullied kids, not the bullies…

My fear with legislation like the present proposal is that it will result in the zero-tolerance lack of common sense that is itself another problem. Remember the tweety-bird keychain?

And — and I realize this may be unpopular — there is a difference between kids being kids, and serious, severe bullying. On some level, kids need to learn how to deal with other kids who are NOT nice to them, who give them a hard time, and who really aren’t broaching the kinds of bullying that we’ve talked about. Plain and simple not everyone is nice, and why should they be forced to be?

By PrimaryTeacher

March 7, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

I have been teaching in public school for 13 years. I am not sure what bullying is. Is it when a child calls another child’s mama ugly or fat? Is it breaking in line after recess? Is it constant comments from the child that disrupts class everyday he is not in ISS? Children are cruel to each other and they always have been. If a child does smell to high heaven, kids are going to talk about it. When did all this become “bullying” ? I am just asking.

By Lisa B.

March 7, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

Bullying is a huge problem, even at the elelmentary level. Telling kids to hit back and defend themselves may stop that bully, but gets the kid defending him or herself an office visit and possible suspension. I like police reports. Bullying is against the law. Report it. Oops. I forgot. Police reports cause schools to go on the “Dangerous” list with all those ramifications. Unless some of the current laws are changed, like taking the blame off the school for trying to discipline students, another law will not help.

By Jo

March 7, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

Primary Teacher, I’d define bullying as the mainstream, “popular” kids singling out a child(ren) who is different & tormenting that child(ren) so that school becomes a hostile environment for the bullied student(s.)Hope that helped…And I know what you mean about a student that might “smell to high heaven” but I once had a co-worker who showered daily but still stank. She had some kind of glandular disorder.

By jim d

March 7, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

I guess some of our legislator’s feel kids are born smart. That being said, I suppose these legislator’s have gotten dumber with age.

K-12? How silly. How many (other than your own) 5 year olds have y’all seen that were 100% nice 100% of the time? Gimme a break here. Behavior is a learned trait, not one passed down in the gene pool. This bill would place blots on a 5 year olds permanent record that would follow them throughout their lives for infractions like pinching someone. Is that what y’all really want? NO?

Well do you think the schools would use a bit of judgement? (base that answer on a zero tolerance program after reading what would be at stake)

“Any school system which is not in compliance with the requirements of this Code section shall be ineligible to receive state funding pursuant to Code Sections 20-2-161 and 20-2-260”

By Nja

March 7, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

First of all bullying is NEVER the fault of the child who is being bullied. That is the problem with the school system today. Children don’t take responsibility for their actions nor do their parents. That’s like blaming a rape victim because her skirt was too short or she was out at night. As a counselor I deal with bullies and students who get bullied quite often. I have yet to see one student who likes getting attention this way. In my state we already have a bullying law. Hardly anyone knows about it. It didn’t change anything. A lot of school staff feel that if students aren’t physically being hurt they aren’t being bullied. That is BS. No one has the right to make anyone else feel uncomfortable or threatened through physical or verbal abuse. Students are bullied everyday for the clothes they wear, speech difficulties, etc. Yes, some students may have what is considered any annoying personality. But other students have a choice to not deal with that student.

By Bully's "mom"

March 7, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

I have custody of my sisters 13 year old son. I have talked to him, restricted him, reasoned with him and paddled him for bullying behavior at school. He has no respect for authority or anyone else. I have told the school the have my blessing to do whatever they see fit. I will support them. I told the principal that he had my permission to paddle him at school as I believe the embarassment of it may have some effect on his behavior. I told them ISS doesn’t scare him maybe cleaning toilets would. I offered to sign a release. They will not punish him! They CAN paddle him according to school board policy but they won’t. I can do these things at home but it is not the same. Back home in south Georgia they paddled even high school students. (Still Do) Funny thing, they didn’t have these kind of problems.

They can make all the rules and pass all the laws they wan’t but if they are not enforced, it just will not matter.

By V for Vendetta

March 7, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

Jon, I understand what you’re saying. When I said “be smart about it” I meant cover your a@@. That way you won’t get sued by some bully’s assinine parent.

I agree with what JimD said. We can’t have this kind of a bill going through and ending up as black marks on kids permanent records for things like pinching, pushing, or arguing. We all know what the difference is between bullying and kids being stupid. We don’t need a law to tell us how to enforce discipline at our level. Although maybe we DO need a law telling administrators how to enforce discipline at their level.

Until someone shows me a more practical method, I’m going to teach my kid to stand up for herself. If you get punched or assaulted, then by all means beat the hell out of your attacker. I’ll gladly sign those ISS papers.

“Well he provocated me enough to knock his block off”

— Scout Finch

By SET

March 7, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

V for Vendetta:

I agree with you completely. But I’d propose that the kid be professionally taught. We have Dojos in town that teach children to cripple and maim and when it’s ok to do so. Not only that - there are ways to make it look “accidental”. Their tuition is really very reasonable. They take kids as young as 4 or 5 through adults. Their kids do not have problems of the type described here. Not for long, anyway.

If a family has to send their children to these government schools there are certain tools they need to take with them.

By SET

March 7, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

Nja : Sorry. There are rape “victims” who did their level best to get “raped”. If “raped” it was. Maybe you don’t feel people are to be held responsible for the logical results of their behavior, but others do. We can argue specific fact patterns - but the point is that I don’t buy the “victim” line just because someone claims it.

As far as the bully victims - I’ve learned the hard way that sometimes there are two sides to a story.

I don’t worship victims. I used to, but I’ve now worked with “Victims” professionally for 25 years and even got to know “serial victims”.

I save my pity for Cancer Patients. I’m seeing more and more of them nowadays. Those routine physicals get really interesting after 50.

By catlady

March 7, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

A problem with the “hit him back” idea is that we have a lot of kids who decide to take offense at the least little thing, like a funny look, and use that as an excuse to hit someone. They lack judgement about what is a “hittable” offense. Lots of times their parents look for excuses too (“you make me so mad…”)

So saying, my daughter was being bullied by a boy at afterschool. She and I reported it to the director, to no avail. I was unwilling to give her permission to do anything to him, believing it the adults’ responsibility to put an end to it. The next time he assaulted her, she grabbed his rats tail and pulled every bit of it out. The principal called to tell me she was suspended from afterschool. I asked about our reports of the bullying; she did not know about it. According to the principal the boy’s mother wanted me to pay for him going to the barbershop to get his hair fixed and wanted us to meet to discuss how to help our kids get along better. I told the principal that after the mother paid for the bruises on my daughter I would consider her barber bill, and if her son would keep his hands off my daughter, they would get along just fine. He did and they did. So sometimes assaulting back works, but it is a nightmare for the school when parents encourage their children to take the law into their own hands and decide who to punish and why.

By SET

March 7, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

I shake my head reading all these stories about children being terrorized in schools while the teachers and administration are presumably somewhere playing cards.

My older cousins went to integrated public high schools in the early 1960s in CA - they were not wanted there at all. I went to integrated catholic schools with working class italian and Irish families and some of them were very much unhappy that a few black students were allowed in “their” schools.

The Irish Nuns beat the living daylights out of any kid who started anything verbal or physical at or outside of the school, and the parents didn’t dare express attitude to the Nuns about integration because the Nuns would dress them down in a minute and hand them their kids back.

At the public high school the teachers and administration would kick out anyone who crossed them or embarassed the school. The black students were at first not invited to the parties - until they started having parties of their own and the white kids wanted in (BBQ & Motown?). In general the groups reached a detante and had separate territories on the playgrounds for awhile. Big deal.

Why are things worse now in 2007 than they were in 1963?

By catlady

March 7, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

We have had professional, Olympic bullies at our school. What is needed is a requirement that the bullies be dealt with very punatively. And that won’t happen.

I do understand what Jeff was talking about on some kids bringing some of it on themselves. Instead of good social skills, we have a lot of kids who have no clue or inclination how to be pleasant to others and treat them appropriately. They call names, etc., and then howl if someone gives it back to them. We also have a lot of very angry kids (and adults) just looking for an excuse to fight, insult, etc. If you don’t believe this look at the tenor of our political discussions (Thinking Right, for example).

By SET

March 7, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

Catlady, you have a point! But if the teachers and administrators don’t keep control of the school, they only have themselves to blame when they lose control of it completely.

Self defense is a right and an obligation. Older siblings for example are not free to refuse to intervene if they see a younger relative attacked. Brothers must physically defend a Sister attacked by a male. You and the schools have no right to expect otherwise.

The real fun is when you are dealing with children who have been professionally trained to cripple or kill and when to do so.

Make no mistake. Our local Dojos are full of public school students. I’ve watched them practice.

Hint: Don’t attack an Asian Child around here. The odds of hitting a professionally trained for self defense child is greater. The Dojos have very few black children. Don’t know why.

By jim d

March 7, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

V,

Allow me to share a hard learned lesson.

I’m pretty much a pacifist nowadays. Wasn’t always, but have learned over the years to just grow into the role. I have the batlle scars and the ledgers to prove what it cost to learn that in any physical confrontation there are no winners. Truly the only winners are those that can turn and walk away.

My child has always been smaller than his peers but he was taught not only self defense, but was taught the best defense was to walk away from a situation even though he had the ability to take the offender out (and believe me he has the trophies to back that up).

Perhaps the confidence instilled in him by learning how to defend himself provided the means for him to be able to actually do that, I don’t know.

What I do know is that I had been in a “whole lot” more trouble at his age than he has managed to get into. I attribute that to my having been taught the way you say you are teaching your child.

You may save yourself and you child a great deal of grief if you’d check into them.

I rather agree with Jeff to some degree and here’s the bottom line—Bully’s are notoriously cowards when confronted with confidence. They bully only those that allow themselves to be bullied.

By jim d

March 7, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

SET,

“The Dojos have very few black children. Don’t know why.”

Ever see someone take a knife to a gun fight?

By jim d

March 7, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

But SET,

Right you are on the dojo’s. I personally think every child should spend at least 3 years in one learning self defense and gaining confidence they can deal with any situation. But more importantly they are taught self control and discipline. These lessons are really driven home when they compete on a national level and carry over into their daily life.

By Jeff

March 7, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

jim:

About bullies backing down:

I agree. I walk through some ROUGH neighborhoods at night with no fear (and generally carry myself with none). Why? Because those FEW that could ACTUALLY do something to me don’t want to, my equals recognize that we are equals, most of the stupid ones aren’t THAT stupid, and the few stupid and crazy ones are summarily dealt with if they try anything. It is a habit I learned at puberty, and it has served me well. (Oh, and btw: Even a few of those that would be better than me don’t always get that impression, simply due to acting!)

THAT is what I try to pass on to kids. Have the confidence (and acting ability) to PROJECT that you’re a big bad tough guy - and the willingness to act on it if ABSOLUTELY necessary. That alone will solve 99% of your bullying problems.

By jim d

March 7, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

A Bully Story by jim d.

Several years ago on a fine fall afternoon I watched as a young man about a head taller than my child walked up to him and just threw a punch. The punch was blocked. The young man looking somewhat bewildered threw two more punches—both blocked, while my child just looked the young man in the eyes.

Funny thing happend next.—- The young man just turned and walked away without a word being exchanged between these two boys.

While over the years these two boys have learned to coexist, even exchanging pleasntry’s on occassion, I believe they found some mutual respect on that autum day, years ago.

The moral of this story; You need not kick someones a$$ to gain their respect.

By HS Teacher Too

March 7, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

I hope one day they make a movie about your life. :)

Have a great afternoon!

By Fulton County

March 7, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

Just Me the schools cannot PUNISH these days. My child was acting up in school…I suggested isolating the child during lunch a few days and was told “that might embarass the child, we do not want to harm them emotionally by embarassing them.”

Last year, same child, refused to come in after recess. I suggested a “sit out” at recess OUTSIDE…”oh no ma’am the state says they have to have recess”. IMO the recess would have been with her butt on a bench.

Whether they are hiding behind these absurd rules, afraid of parents who would sue them, or just plain do not want to take time to do it I have no idea.

I do think it is rather sad that a bunch of children (who cannot vote for these officials making policy) get to have so much say.

By Teacher Teacher

March 7, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

What about administrators who bully students and teachers?

By Lisa B.

March 7, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

It will never happen, but I think we should send kids home when they don’t behave at school. When the children have had enough home training to be a good school citizen, they can come back. Next infraction, drop them back off at Mommy or Daddy’s workplace, street corner, whatever.

It seems nearly every classroom has one or two kids who mess learning up for everyone. In my classroom today, a boy continually banged his hands on his desk, hummed, and stomped his feet while children were trying to complete a writing assignment. He arrogantly taunted me to go ahead and send him to the office. He’s already been suspended 20 days, and the school won’t suspend him again. Turns out, he’s right. The Assistant Principal came and got him, chastized him in the hall a few minutes, and put him right back in my class. At least the child was just annoying the kids rather than hitting and kicking them as usual. After two parents pressed assault charges against him, and he turned 10, old enough for YDC, he learned to keep his hands and feet to himself.

The schools don’t make AYP if too many kids are absent. At our local middle school, the teachers have been told to stop sending kids to the office because the school won’t make AYP if many more students are suspended. Sigh.

I really think another law will just make things worse.

By Jeff

March 7, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

Lisa:

Email me. I want to see if my gf had this kid.

BTW: Check out my post at the top of the list to get an idea what is coming your way…. :) Have fun with THAT! :P (joking!)

By angryparent

March 7, 2007 6:52 PM | Link to this

Teacher Teacher,

What about teachers — there are many — who bully students? My experience has been that the district (Cobb)administration backs the teacher every time. Good news for teachers, bad news for students here.

By KA

March 8, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this

angryparent, look at my post, the first in this thread, but the book, then drop it off for your principal to read, and send copies to the bully teachers, too.

By KA

March 8, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this

Sorry for the typo. I meant ‘buy’ the book.

By OldSchool

March 8, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

Lisa B at 6:16, I dare say we have far too many kids out there whose parents never learned how to be GOOD parents from their own families. We are reaping the results of several generations of children having children with little or no moral outrage coming from their families or the community. Pregnancy is worn like a medal of honor and multiple children are tending to be the norm.

Tis sad for those families and for our society.

One of the most basic teaching techniques I learned in my education classes was to model the behaviors I wanted my students to learn. That used to happen in the home and we got well-behaved, focused students in our classes. Well, that boat seems to have sailed and taken the crew with it. We’re stuck with unmotivated, uninformed, ill-mannered, clueless extended families and that does not bode well for the future of education in Georgia.

By Lisa B.

March 8, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

Old School,

I also model the behavior I want. I complete my work on time, and return graded paper quickly. I do not tell children to shut up, for example, and do not allow them to say it to each other. Saying “Please” and “Thank You” is expected. Children in Southwest, GA say “please, thank you, yes Ma’ame, and no Sir,” so that is obviously taught at home. If only we could fix the name calling, threats, and agressive behavior in a handful of students.

Old School, I guess what you are saying is that sending the children to their parents for more hometraining isn’t going to happen, because the some parents don’t know how to train their kids.

I have always believed all parents love their children, though some have better parenting skills than others. Sometimes though, I now wonder if there are a few parents out there who care nothing at all about their children.

By Jeff

March 8, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

Update on my “shooter” post fro yesterday:

As expected, he as dumped back in the gfs class yesterday with NOTHING happening to him.

Hey Bridget, wanna talk about sex in schools? Latest drama in my gf’s class involves SECOND GRADERS doing it….

By wwww

March 8, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

Hot topic.

For those of you who were bullied in school or who have children that have been with no consequences, there is no excuse.

Please remember it is often extremely difficult to catch the bullying - it is often done out of sight of an adult, and the child being bullied does not want to be labeled a tattler.

I’m sure there are cases of schools intentionally ignoring bullying, but most of the time, at least in my experience, it is very difficult to prove - and then get an adequate punishment.

Jeff made a comment that some children bring it on themselves …unfortunately this is true - OCCASIONALLY. We often try to work with that child, to get him to look at his or her behavior, and then address any other problems.

By OldSchool

March 8, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Well, Lisa…I’m down here in a Southwest Georgia high school where the number of students saying “Please” and “Thank you” and “Yes ma’am” and “No, sir” is dwindling rapidly. I gently insist on mannerly behavior in my classes and, for the most part, get it.

After several years of begging our performing arts people to open every band concert, play, or other performance with reminders to turn off cell phones, remain seated, remove restless tots, refrain from talking, and so forth, they have discovered that proper public behavior is not being handed down but most audiences will follow instructions when given them.

Now, if I could figure a way to convince men to uncover their heads when inside a building…

By Jeff

March 8, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

OldSchool:

Yeah, that uncovering the head inside is tricky. We have a contemporary service at my church, and ADULTS wear their hats inside AT CHURCH!

When I went to PHX though, they thought it was SOO weird that I took off my hat when I entered a building!

By Lee

March 9, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

To quote that American icon, Barney Fife, “Nip it, nip it, nip it in the bud.”

Except for the very small number of hard core, sociopathic trouble makers, bullying is a learned trait - and it is learned at a very young age. A poke here. A taunt there. When nothing is done to stop this behavior, it soon escalates to hitting and pinching and verbal abuse. By middle school, this behavior is fully ingrained in the child’s psyche.

It is the school’s responsibility and duty to create a safe environment condusive to good learning. Sadly, schools have abdicated that responsibility.

Way back when, we had a code of honor, if you will. Boys did not hit girls. If a larger kid was picking on a smaller kid, someone “took up for them.” Getting sent to the Principal’s office meant an automatic butt whooping. In the event of a fight, whoever threw the first punch got the worst of the punishment.

We don’t need another law. We need teachers and principals to DO THEIR DAMN JOB!