Get Schooled

By KA

February 21, 2007 08:14 AM | Link to this

I read the article. My question is, if the gifted/magnet programs are so popular and have such long waiting lists, why can’t the school system just offer those advanced classes in EVERY school, and serve all of their advanced students?

By Jeff

February 21, 2007 08:22 AM | Link to this

Why the fuss about “diversity” and integration? Schools will NEVER be “diverse” if they continue to discriminate against conservative white males. (Not saying this happens at these schools, but it happens quite frequently at the collegiate level.)

Also note what many in BOTH the white AND BLACK communities have acknowledged over the years: In many ways, integration led to the ruination of the black community. Before forced integration - and even, on a lesser scale, now - black parents pushed their kids FAR harder than they do now, and the students responded. I can honestly say after my work in Randolph that while many black parents do in fact push their kids, their kids are flat out LAZY. Even when a black female 30 year veteran came into my classroom, the kids wouldn’t do the work!

Getting back to my point though: If voluntary re-segregation will rebuild the black community out of the MESS it sees itself in now, I am all for it. If it takes programs such as Browns Mill to do it, so be it.

By jim d

February 21, 2007 08:49 AM | Link to this

“Ditching Diversity”?

I’m Deeply Alarmed!

Oh Wait, No I’m Not!

Whats the problem with providing an education to our brightest regardless of skin color? Isn’t that what this is about?

By JustMe

February 21, 2007 09:46 AM | Link to this

We should provide an education to challege all of our students, regardless of race. This philosophy is not NCLB, where they want to provide an education to meet some minimum bar. And, their bar is rather low!!!

By Ernest

February 21, 2007 09:51 AM | Link to this

KA:

This article is a combination of several blog topics we’ve discussed. First and foremost, voluntary housing patterns influence the racial diversity at any school. Should the government mandate diversity despite the housing choices its citizens make? If so, at what cost?

They do offer ‘advanced’ classes at every school however the student population usually dictates the quantity of time they would have along with the quality of instruction. Speaking for myself, I feel my son was ‘ostracized’ by his teachers and fellow students because he was extremely bright. I got tired of hearing, “he already understands it so I just let him help me help the other students”. What about his academic needs?

Changing traffic patterns in the metro area make it difficult for some to rationalize putting their child on a bus for 45 minutes or longer for an instructional environment the parents feel will stimulate their child. IMO, a possible solution is to offer equitable choice programs throughout the district. I’d rather see monies spent on transportation be redirected into the classrooms, for all students. I personally give a higher preference for quality instruction over diversity. Unless the housing patterns voluntarily change, schools will continue to reflect the racial and/or socioeconomic mix of its residents.

By mmm

February 21, 2007 09:59 AM | Link to this

I am white and would consider Browns Mill over Kittridge for my gifted kids, IF IT WERE AT ITS OWN CAMPUS.

I went the the K open house, and I found the other parents to be afters a certain kind of pushiness that I found repulsive. Browns Mill is likely to land somewhere that would make it traffic-wise far easier to get to from my house near Memorial Drive.

You can’t judge the quality of a program based the assumption that sitting next to a white kid (or driving North) makes it automatically better. We have done that for too long in DeKalb.

By KA

February 21, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

Ernest, yes I know. My point was that the school system should offer the entire menu of advanced classes to ALL advanced students at each school. It is luck of the draw if the kids get into the magnet schools now. I agree with you that time and money spent transporting the smart kids could be used more wisely.

By Jeff

February 21, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

Pair a Joe Clark administrator with a Jaime Escalante teacher. Force anyone higher than Principal level to leave them the HADES alone. You’ll get results. Anywhere. (Period)

By Janine

February 21, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

Diversity as it is [has been] experienced the Dekalb school system is highly overrated….and dare I say it? … destructive to the overall academic structure. I have observed the results of the “diversity” craze and ,while there are some positives that result, the negatives are so destructive ! The most obvious …the lowering of academic standards. For example, while I was teaching in Dekalb, the criteria for entrance into the gifted programs were changed several times so that the program would not be “Caucasian heavy” in any given school. One school would have one cut off score for acceptance into the program while another school’s group of gifted students would have scores much lower. The pool for the Kittredge Magnet lottery was composed of students with a very wide range of test scores….a score that qualified a student from one school would eliminate a student from another. A student admitted to the gifted program 15 years ago would have to present much higher scores than one today.

By Janine

February 21, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

mmm I agree that this “sitting beside a whie kid, or driving north” does not automatically make the education scenario better. However, a child spends more time with his/her peers than with the family and that influence is undeniable. So, it has been my experience that being away from the “disruptive, disinterested elements in the classroom can have a dramatic effect on academic progress/achievement. Many times my teaching team [in middle school] would change a student’s schedule in order to get him/her into a less , shall we say “distracting” , classroom situation and child’s progress/achievement / behavior all showed tremendous improvement. This was a strategy we all used quite often because it worked.

By Lynn

February 21, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

My first impression to this headline was moving because it is getting too black, don’t want to pay for private school so keep folks happy to keep them in the system. I see this all too well in working in two adjacent states education arena. What is the problem with just giving the children the best education our tax dollars can possibly give them…every child, not just the “few”? Why can’t a child at Columbia get the same education as a child at Kittredge?

By Jay

February 21, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

I still don’t understand the emphasis on diversity in schools. Can someone tell me what the objective is?

By Janine

February 21, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

Lynn @10:24..It’s what we have discussed here many times…public schools must take and attempt to educate all comers. A teacher must give attention to all students in the classroom, and particularly after NCLB, most of that attention necessarily goes to the less capable student. It also goes to the disruptive students. A teacher at a magnet for high achievers where the parents must “fight ” for a seat, and where all students are motivated and involved in the learning process do not face the same obstacles. Because Kittredge Magnet is for High Achievers, their whole program can be in a different gear. Even though there are a range of scores presented for entrance,they all are going to pass the CRCT without extra prep. They all can multiply and divide and write a paragraph. The parents are at the school to help and do fund raisers to purchase things the school system does not provide. THat is why a child at another school will not have the same situation.

By Jeff

February 21, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

Jay,

The theory is that more “diverse” schools promote learning somehow. I hold that extremely homogenous classrooms within a “diverse” school actually promotes FAR more learning. (For example, rather than having a mix of all races and sexes in a class, how about we go to single gender, single race classrooms. The you don’t have to worry about boy-girl dynamics OR racial tension… and if most of the bozos tend to be of a single race - as has been my experience - then at least they are concentrated and not disrupting everyone else.)

By Blake

February 21, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

About 13 years ago, I was a student at Kittredge Magnet School…and looking back on the experience, I am a strong supporter of the type of experience that Kittredge offers.

At the time I attended, the school was racially mixed…and better for it. Although I was too young at the time to appreciate the educational/political ramifications of racial diversity…I could sense that it was a unique experience to go to a school that had high expectations for ALL of its students across the board.

Now, years later, having been a teacher myself, I look back with great admiration for the Kittredge I knew. It was full of great teachers…a trait I rarely see anywhere these days.

An unfortunate side consequence of No Child Left Behind is that it often means “No Child Gets Ahead”…forcing teachers to teach to the lowest performers and leaving the higher performing students to stagnate and grow apathetic. PLEASE don’t water down Kittredge or its diversity. Kids of ALL backgrounds need a school who will treat high performing students as a gift, not a nuisance or a prop.

By Lynn

February 21, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

Janie- Less capable students, interesting. It is a state right to recieve an education not what side to town you live in. NCLB did one good thing, it is forcing schools to push out quickly the so called less capable students as you refer to them or finally give those who remain the edudcation they should have recieved decades ago. We all know it is about economics that is why 51 districts brought the lawsuit against the state. Thank God my children don’t attend public school!

By mmm

February 21, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

Being in a situation where you are forced to recognize that there are many different ways to approach a situation and/or solve a problem is the benefit of diversity. In all honesty, as long as the school my kids are in can survive financially, I prefer having my very bright kids in a classroom with multiple languages, cultures, SES, religious and and a mix of talents (or disabilities).

As long as my bright children are challenged, not made to feel strange or picked on, I don’t mind if they sometimes help others in the classroom. This will prepare them better to navigate sucessfully in a balanced way when they are adult than either Kittridge of Browns Mill. For that reason, Browns Mill and then K would be my second or third choice. Diversity does not consist of putting different skin colors together and then allowing our worst expectations of each other to reign surpreme. It requires a willing openness to find the best, highest expectations from each tradition and spreading them around in a free flowing exchange of ideas. This is something that must be chosen, not compelled. And it provides an enrichment that is not available at either K or Browns Mill.

My kids are in a charter school that was nationally profiled on CNN last fall in a segment called “Diversity by Design”. They are exceedingly smart, but unlike when I was going through my all-white small town school, they are not being picked on because they are engaged learners that pick things up rapidly. To quote Dash from the Incredibles “when everyone is special, no one is”. In this case, since everyone is different—no one is an oddball to be reigned in.

By SET

February 21, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

KA: Advanced classes can’t be offered in every school because most public schools in urban areas don’t have enough above average IQ students to be in advanced classes. See the IQ distribution charts in The Bell Curve by Chas. Murray.

The current generation of American Blacks have an avg IQ of 85, Hispanics and avg IQ of 93. Whites an avg IQ of 100 (by definition - the score is normed on them), Asians/Jews an avg of 115. The distribution works out that only one black in 6 is at or above 100.

Now try to form a Calculus/Trig class in an urban school. Or even a history class.

Inability to cope with these stats is what makes Educrats so foolish and makes diversity as practised so poisonous. Do we whip the black students because they aren’t functioning in Algebra 2 and don’t want to be in advanced classes? Do we tell them they are lazy? Do we tell the Hispanics and Black students that they are traitors to diversity by not measuring up? Do we refuse to IQ score our minority students to identify the ones who can be pushed forward? Yes. That’s what we do. The result is another generation of angry, frustrated disaffected students.

This is no way to run education. The only way we are going to get realistic diversity is to do what the Military and the NFL do. IQ Test everybody. Sort by IQ. Life is an IQ test anyway. If we sit down with the students and families and show them up front what the numbers are and what they can reasonably expect to reach with it, the brights will have a better chance of breaking out.

In the current regime the high IQ minority students are lost and thrown away. They learn to keep their heads down and their mouths shut (for fear of “acting white”). They adopt the mores of the herd and vanish into the background.

By Jeff

February 21, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

mmm:

“Being in a situation where you are forced to recognize that there are many different ways to approach a situation and/or solve a problem is the benefit of diversity.”

From what I have witnessed, even in heavily diverse schools, that does not happen. Instead, kids willingly segregate themselves by race - even inside the classroom if the teacher does not have a forced seating chart. (And sometimes even when the teacher does!) Therefore, having “diverse” schools does absolutely NOTHING other than save face for administrators trying to satisfy the PC crowd.

By JustMe

February 21, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

I am in favor of diversity. Students learning in a diverse population can learn so much from each other. I teach in a school where students are from Sudan, Somolia, Germany, and so on. They enjoy hearing other languages and teaching each other about one another’s culture. A diverse student population also fosters empathy and understanding of people’s differences - something that our society sorely needs!

I do not think that we must chose between diversity and a great education. Why does it seem that so many assume that it is one or the other?

As in my previous post here, I think that the objective in education is to academically challenge every student (gifted, general level, special education, etc). If we accomplish this, I feel that the overall level of success in education will increase. This is why I really really hate NCLB - it’s goal is not to challenge every student but rather to move all students to meet a ridiculously low bar, or level of education.

By mmm

February 21, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

Jeff, within your observation lies the seat of the problem. We have diversity at Hartsfield-Jackson airport, but we have no interchange of ideas because there is no community and no intention of anyone there to form one.

The emphasis and central identity at our school is the importance of community within diversity. My white middle-class son’s best friend is a refugee from Rwanda whose family speaks French. My son is learning French. It will only happen if the parents and teachers set an example AND if there is no comfortable majority culture to either oppose or join.

Our school is not nirvana, there are plenty of groups—-the Bosnians run the kitchen, many of the administrators speak French, it is mostly Americans running the spring fundraiser auction, and willing to sign up to beg the school board to give us Forrest Hills elementary. We have a really hard time finding refugee parents that understand and are willing to serve on the board, but they love pot-lucks and are great at showing up with ethnic dress, music and dance for parties—and their kids are usually better behaved than the American ones.

Not withstanding all these problems, I think that my school is a great example—but the pathway to it on the part of the whole district needs to be through an emphasis on academic excellence followed by community building. Diversity for the sake of a pretty picture while low expectations reign supreme does not help our children.

By Charles

February 21, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Diversity should not be a concern of schools in the 21st century. In the 20th century, people were interested in integration and diversity because we believed that students who were attending integrated and diverse schools would use that knowledge which they had attained to uplift their communities; today ties to the communities have been severed. For the most part, greed and selfishness rules with an iron hand; people are concerned only with themselves at heart. So consequently, absolutely nothing is lost when diversity is no longer a concern of schools. It’s definitely not worth fighting for in the 21st century.

In the African American community, the great masses of us say no to diversity and integration in schools and the public sector. We, the masses are the people who made many so-called successful people in the 21st century; you better believe we can break them as a song performed by the Temptations titled Superstar indicates:

It’s easy for you to look down. Turn up your nose and frown. Now that you’re on top (Top) (Bright lights) Don’t let the bright lights blind you. (Bridges) don’t burn ‘em behind you.

(Superstar) Good God. Do you know who your (real friends are?) Ah, talkin’ to you (superstar.) Remember how you got (where you are.)

Don’t change your style now that you’ve reached the top. Don’t choose your friends by what they’ve got. Remember beneath the glitter and gleam. Like everyday people you’re just a human being.

(Superstar) Good God. Enjoy your champagne (and caviar.) And your chauffeur drivin’ (fancy car.) But remember how you got (where you are.)

Oh-ho-ho, ‘cause the same folks that made you, you better believe they can break you…

By Janine

February 21, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

JUSTME re:”I don’t think we should have to choose between diversity and a great education”.IMO,You are absolutely right… If you are you speaking of a classroom in which students are diverse racially,ethnically, economically. ANd, in my experience, the best possible siutation for a child is to be in a classroom that is diverse in the ways mentioned above, but NOT diverse in ability. I think all students are better served when the class is NOT diversein abilities… as in a mixture students who speak little or no English, students who are severely learning disabled, students who are are of average/above average ability and those who are exceedingly academically gifted.

By Jeff

February 21, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

mmm:

I would contend that what you see at Hartsfield is EXACTLY what you see in MOST “diverse” schools.

By decaturparent

February 21, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

I’m with Janine. The answer to some of this is probably to give up on the arcane idea of single year classes. Classes should span two to three years and children can move up to the next skill when they are ready.

That way you can have diverse classes while at the same time allowing all children to be challenged or reinforced as needed. You could have K/1, 1/2/3, 3/4/5. I’m not quite sure what you would do with 10-11 year olds who finished the 5th grade curriculum when they were 9. Someone help me out with that one.

Why can’t we make that happen? We send people to the moon but can’t figure out multi-age classes?

By GaNative

February 21, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

KA opened this blog with the following question ” read the article. My question is, if the gifted/magnet programs are so popular and have such long waiting lists, why can’t the school system just offer those advanced classes in EVERY school, and serve all of their advanced students?”

And the answer is there are not enough GIFTED TEACHERS to teach it.

By catlady

February 21, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

Our current operating definition of diversity is too narrow. Diversity is about sooo much more than race, but race is about the only thing folks pay attention to. So narrowly defined, I am not convinced that “diversity” helps at all. If we look at the full spectrum of diverse-ness however, that might be different. We won’t; it is an easy cash cow defined as it is.

Give schools the resources to teach the students, stand back, and let them teach! Cut out the rest of the fluff—the feel-good, look-good, everything to everybody stuff and support the teachers teaching and the students learning.

By Ernest

February 21, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Blake:

You bring an interesting perspective having gone through Kittredge. It’s refreshing to hear your appreciation for that experience.

SET and JustMe:

I too welcome diversity however being ‘fiscally responsible’ one has to ask, at what cost. I’m glad ‘choices’ such as Kittredge and Browns Mill are available, keeing in mind the points SET raised. Again looking at myself, I made a ‘choice’ as to where to live, konwing the schools in my area. I recognize some have limited choices regarding where they can live however that alone should not dictate the quality of education available.

KA:

After I re-read my earlier post, I realized it sounded a little ‘preachy’. I hope you didn’t take offense to that as I know you already are aware of the points I raised.

MMM:

Forrest Hills ES for ICS!!! :)

By catlady

February 21, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

And even if there were enough gifted teachers, NCLB/IDEA reauthorization are going to kill gifted classes as we know them now. Moot point.

By Janine

February 21, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Also, GaNative,even if there were enough teachers with gifted certification, each school is alloted teachers based on enrollment, so, many times, a choice has to be made among needs in many areas including ESOL,Special ED., P.E., Technology. With NCLB, the choice is no brainer for most principals…..they add teachers for the students who are least likely to pass the CRCT. The administration wants to stay off of the dreaded “Failing schools ” list, and gifted students are going to pass the CRCt with or without a specialized teacher.

By Janine

February 21, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

I am hearing that ALL special classes are being eliminated, catlady. The ESOL and special education students [multiple designations] are already being mainstreamed into regular classrooms where neither they nor their regular ed classmates get the attention they need and deserve. Gifted are not far behind. A few years ago they were trying to get all teachers in Dekalb to get the Gifted endorsement so a special gifted teacher could be eliminated AND to get more money based on the Gifted designation on the certificate.

By alice

February 21, 2007 01:11 PM | Link to this

Janine

You don’t quite have it right — schools have to serve gifted students 225 minutes a day. Unless it is a school full of high achieving students, pulls out are necessary to serve these kids.

The gifted certification is excellent training — it teaches the teachers how to bring enrichment to all students. It is very valuable, even if a teacher never teaches a gifted child.

By Blake

February 21, 2007 01:14 PM | Link to this

As a former student of Kittredge (13 years ago) who has also been a teacher, I must say this:

I really tire of hearing stories of people trying to do away with schools like Kittredge every year. Simply put, Kittredge would not even need to exist if the “high achievers” were truly getting what they need from regular public schools.

Unfortunately, too many schools view high performing students either as nuisances or as props used to make the school’s scores look better.

PLEASE do not water down Kittredge (academically or racially)…it is one of the few places where high performing kids can go and be challenged and respected.

By jim d

February 21, 2007 01:20 PM | Link to this

Yep Janine,

More of the one size fits all metallity

By Blake

February 21, 2007 01:20 PM | Link to this

When I left Kittredge after the 6th grade 13 years ago and moved to the “good” schools in Gwinnett County, I was forced to spend my 7th grade year essentially repeating material I already knew….and dealing with teachers who seemed as though they didn’t know what to do with a kid who was a grade level ahead of where they were teaching. My motivation to learn dropped off for a while…and I felt ostracized by peers who seemed to take learning less seriously.

We need to keep schools like Kittredge available for ALL students, regardless of race.

When I taught in a middle school in Atlanta Public Schools, I was horrified to learn that the school had no accelerated program for high performing students at all. In an underperforming school in a low income community, I can think of no greater tragedy than showing students that hard work and high performance have no real benefits. Despite my efforts to reach them, I watched many bright students stagnate in the school’s overall climate of low expectations.

By catlady

February 21, 2007 01:59 PM | Link to this

You are right, Janine.I did not ever mean to leave out ESOl or SP ED. As an ESOL teacher in Georgia, I think the ESOL certification classes would be very valuable to ANYONE teaching in public schools, especially after ESOL students and their needs are “folded inton” the regular teacher’s total responsibilities. You are gonna haveta do it anyway….

By Todd

February 21, 2007 02:24 PM | Link to this

Smart parents==>better jobs==>more money==>less thugish areas==>safer schools==>better students==>smart students==>smart programs at school.

Not too difficult to understand.

Thugish neighborhoods don’t deserve better programs. Half my day as a teacher is spent writing kids up and the other half is spent telling the rest to shut up. Maybe a small percent worth anything. It all goes back to the trash parents, NOT THE SCHOOLS.

By Scott Case

February 21, 2007 02:25 PM | Link to this

Diversity is gay

By Janis Ian

February 21, 2007 02:40 PM | Link to this

Sometimes students are ostracized by teachers not because of what the students have done, but because of their overbearing, obnoxious parents.

By Lynn

February 21, 2007 02:52 PM | Link to this

Seeing a lot of hate on this site for blacks, the poor, thugs, gays, etc. I live in a high wealth district, I want to see everyone around me do well so we can continue to live well, have good opportunities and be safe. I don’t have kids in public schools, but I want to see all children to do well. When they don’t succeed, they are the ones that come into our homes and places of business to get what they think they need to survive. I moved here six years ago and was excited to live in a city I thought embrased diversity. Disapointingly, I am wrong.

Todd get a new school asignment where you can be happy teaching if you can,or learn how to turn students on to learning!

By mmm

February 21, 2007 03:21 PM | Link to this

Jeff—I agree with you that most schools have no more community than the airport. That is why I think the benefits that come from forming any community that supports academic excellence has to come first. This will help us far more quickly to improve than court ordered requirements to scramble kids based on skin color.

KA—I can’t figure out what you thought might be preachy in your earlier post? I know all the efforts you have made to encourage folks on the board and in the administration to behave in a professional manner have are not alway respected or appreciated.

ICS is a very weird public school. Being a charter was simply the only process by which a school with its mission could be created but we don’t aspire to the devisive rhetoric that surrounds most charter schools. ICS’s values and identity are based on attempting to be a “Community”—which is what the C is for. We have four core values that were discussed for several years by the founding group before they managed to talk the board into giving them a charter, and a church into sharing their building. They are “academic excellence”, “community in diversity”, “service oriented education” and “family and community partnerships”. The question of whether we can eventually get FH ES building ultimately is one of whether we have correctly picked and faithfully lived those values in a manner that will inspire the administration and board to at least temporarily set aside their other ugly behavior for long enough to recognize that we are their partner in a way that helps children.

By truthfilter

February 21, 2007 04:02 PM | Link to this

Uh, mmm, for kicks I just checked the AYP report on ICS to see what a wonderful school it was b/c you had me pretty psyched with all your talk on this blog.

Well, “you ain’t all that.” Looks like you would not have even come close to making AYP last year except for the fact that your FRL and ESOL groups are small enough for their poor scores to not be counted in your AYP calculation.

Even your non FRL kids were not all that great test score wise.

The diversity is nice and fun to talk about at cocktail parties. And it’s enriching to learn about other cultures, but I don’t see how y’all are providing any better learning than any other school.

Explain to my why I should pay more in taxes so that you can move to Forrest Hills when you aren’t getting the job done where you are.

By outofhere

February 21, 2007 04:14 PM | Link to this

truthfilter,

If you live in DeKalb, and I am guessing you are, you are paying a ton extra for magnet programs. 100 extra teachers are employed in those programs — that doesn’t include transportation costs, which several years ago where nearly 10 times the cost of transportation to neighborhood schools.

We are a magnet family who is leaving DeKalb — not because of the diversity at the school, but because this is one very poorly run school system. By visiting high performing schools in Cobb, N. Fulton and Gwinnett, I discovered much of what we are looking for. Their populations are so much better than DeKalb’s (especially N. Fulton and East Cobb) that no magnet program is needed.

By tommm

February 21, 2007 04:35 PM | Link to this

To mmm,

Just a quick note about this statement: “You can’t judge the quality of a program based the assumption that sitting next to a white kid (or driving North) makes it automatically better.” It’s not that. I’m an African American in his 30’s that is from Atlanta. This school has had the highest test scores in the state, or at least in the top 3 since I’ve been in 7th grade. I’m 32 now. I don’t know what they do but it’s a reason parents are pushing hard to get their kids over there. But my point wasn’t to take up for Kitteredge moving North. I agree that programs like this need to exist in all communities. I think it’s naive to say this should exist in every school because every kid isn’t gifted. The way Dekalb is set up, kids have can easily go to the gifted program at Browns Mill if they happen to live to far from Kitteredge. I grew up with kids that went to both magnet programs and it’s not as though the kids from Browns Mill grew up to be drug pushers and Kitteredge kids grew up to be professionals. Both groups were equally successful in their chosen professions. I grew up in the Dekalb County School system and the opportunities are available to black and white kids. I do think they programs are equally distributed, just the brightest kids happen to go to Kitteredge instead of Browns Mill. That’s life. Just like you’ll never see Kobe Bryant in a Hawks uniform.

By mmm

February 21, 2007 05:19 PM | Link to this

Truthfilter—you are welcome not to send your children.

Yes, we have a goodly number of kids that did not pass the CRCT. Many of those kids entered this country without English or any formal education even in the home language. Would you consider a 5th grade child who passed the CRCT in Math but failed it in English/Language Arts after 5 months in an American school a failure or a sucess? His younger sister managed to pass both. WE had not a single child that had been with us in 4th grade fail either section of the 5th grade CRCT. Between our first and 2nd year the average IOWA score for the same child that we jumped an average of 10-15 percentile points. (the different classes and grades had different average jumps).

Tell me, if a child goes to Kittridge with a score of 95th percentile and 3 years later he leave Kittridge at 98th percentile—how much value add did the school produce?

The mission of the school is to move all learners forward, but also to be a welcoming community for those who start not with advantages, not even at zero by American standards, but at negative 20 as well. As others make their choices by buying houses in neighborhood with +20 families and kids, I acknowldge that, given the way AYP is calculated, ICS will start failing it if it is true to it’s mission to take the “least of these”.

If anyone chooses to not look past the AYP report, they aren’t required to come. My daughter’s IOWA scores have remained steady at the 98th percentile composite—-so I guess a gifted learner can maintain her position relative to the rest of the country in this school.

DeKalb has more elementary building capacity than children in our part of town—so no one is asking you to cough up more money. If Forrest Hills wasn’t uneconomical to run with 250 kids, they wouldn’t be closing it. While the law doesn’t compel the district to offer us a building, we are a title 1 public school. Would you rather that the building sit empty or be used for more central administrative staff? Charters, unlike magnets have to privately raise or do without other things to pay for anything “extra”, nor can they set any entrance criteria.

We are doing the real job with a really hard to serve population to the satisfaction of our parents. It is not where you start, but where you are headed and at what speed that counts.

By Truth Filter

February 21, 2007 05:22 PM | Link to this

Nothing to say on the topic: But there’s an imitation Truth Filter out there!

By mmm

February 21, 2007 05:26 PM | Link to this

tommm

I didn’t mean to imply that any individual on this blog personally felt that way—but if you have attended many DeKalb school board meetings there is a constant undercurrent of North Dekalb vs. South Dekalb that is used to excuse all kinds of selfish parochial decision making by the board.

By eye roll

February 21, 2007 05:28 PM | Link to this

Hello, we people move to certain areas and segregate ourselves…we can do it econimically, religiously, or whatever…Using racial quotas of any type is wrong….I say lets do it…if Kittridge or whatever moves because it wants to into North Fulton (or wherever) and THEN excludes the various races that live in that area (without redrawing any school lines) that is different. If you are purple and Jewish and want your kid in a Jewish school then send them there…who cares…..If you are blue and live near this school and it says no you cannot come to this school because you are blue then I will go with you to explain they are wrong. Don’t send white,black, green, yellow, red, brown or whatever to a school just to make it diverse that is stupid.

More importantly make the school worth attending so that all the races are fighting to get in because of how great it is!

By Fulton County Mom

February 21, 2007 05:42 PM | Link to this

@Jeff — I worked at the airport. I would agree that segregation does occur there by the choice of the workers….However I and some others did cross those lines by finding common grounds that let us work together…it is some a matter of the individuals to find it and no Manager or Teacher or Bussing situation will fix it. (So I agree with your assessment).

Further where I live there social, racial, and economical things that could potentially alienate me or my children from our community. Again I choose to cross those. I make what I make, live where I live and drive what I drive…One of my children’s best friends lives in a very, very nice house (that I could not afford), is not of the race we are, and is a WONDERFUL person (as are that child’s parents). Another child of a similar econimic background and race is a real PITA and I am glad my children dropped that child (and the parents) from their play list. It really is all about the person.

I do think that in the lower schools seperating the children by gender is a fabulous idea. In middle school they could share some classes (social integration?) and HS share all but gym (the boys in my HS were to busy looking at the short shorts and who’s top “bounced” to do more than get hit in the head with a baseball during gym)….it lays the foundation of solid study and addresses the social needs of the “mature” years (you know training for the social graces of adulthood).

By Jeff

February 21, 2007 06:22 PM | Link to this

FCM:

My comment wasn’t directed towards those that work there, sorry if it sounded like that! My comment was directed more towards the way the crowds manage themselves. Stand around and watch it sometime. I spent about 4 hours in layovers in ATL, and it was pretty interesting!

Here’s what I propose: Separate academics at all levels as I described earlier today. (By race and gender). Then INTENTIONALLY mix up elective classes. (With the possible exception of single gender PE. Even within the single gender though, mix up the races.)

It can’t hurt, and we could in fact find that this model could do FAR more good than what we have right now..

Note that I am NOT saying build entire schools as single gender OR single race. But separate the INDIVIDUAL CLASSES.