Get Schooled

By jim d

February 12, 2007 08:13 AM | Link to this

While it doesn’t really surprise me, I do find it a bit puzzling that GCPS continues to try to justify a test that they themselves have abandoned. Since there have been no articles printed in a negative light of their ditching the Gateway—Why would they feel it necessary to continue to defend it? I really was going to let this one just RIP until I saw they were already on the defense. Interesting!

Here’s my response to Ms. Diamonds article.

Gateway helped define schools?

What say, that in order to provide a little balance to your article we take a view from another perspective?

In Spite of the Gateway test, we continue to maintain a rather flat graduation rate of about 68% while the escalating cost of providing students an education in Gwinnett County have spiraled upwards nearly 30% over the past 8 years and our Drop out rates appear to be a bit above the national average. But I must admit that our SAT scores are among the highest in the state that ranks near the bottom in education. This, unless I’m mistaken, would make us among the best of the worst. Has the Gateway improved this? Not really.

Let’s look at what the test has actually done for us. First and foremost, it cost taxpayers tens of millions of dollars that might have been much better spent in the classrooms. It has, despite any front office propaganda, caused teachers to teach to the test rather than the highly acclaimed AKS curriculum. It has caused teachers to fear for their jobs, parents to fear a school system that unjustly accused them of leaking the test to the press and has been a cause of dissention between parents and teachers. Oh yeah, and it caused absolutely NO children to be retained that wouldn’t have been anyway. Check it out, the percentages of students retained prior to Gateway and post Gateway remained pretty flat.

Funny thing, your article indicates that in 2003 - 2004 the system scaled back the test. Interesting story there. Just a couple of weeks before that decision was announced, a parent stood before the board at a budget hearing and suggested that due to redundancy existing between the CRCT and the Gateway that they might save some money by eliminating portions of the Gateway. That parent was met with ridicule and the very arguments that the board still uses to justify a meaningless test, “That our test is more stringent”

Now, let us discuss possible reasons they have opted to use the CRCT in lieu of the Gateway at this particular date and time. Not long ago a certain school superintendent circulated a letter to all the school superintendents in the state criticizing a high ranking elected state official’s plan for educational spending in the state. As I recall this was just prior to elections and probably didn’t set well with this elected official. Might this then just be a peace offering?

According to your article Radloff said “The Gateway accomplished what the district wanted it to.” If the goal was simply to provide a perception of success then I’d agree and as you wrote “It doesn’t matter whether or not your experiences with GCPS have been favorable or not because that’s the perception in the outside world.” Unfortunately for our children, many people fail to see the truth, only seeing the perception.

By jim d

February 12, 2007 08:19 AM | Link to this

Bridget,

Did I pass today? :-)

By Larry

February 12, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

The Gateway was supposed to stop grade inflation and the social promotion it caused.

If grade inflation existed, it would now be documented. The record would show kids with good grades would not be able to pass the Gateway.

This, in fact, does happen every year, but look at the results. Every year, the very people who instituted this thing, declare the Gateway scores invalid and promote the student based on the classroom grades the Gateway replaced.

This isn’t some disgruntled parent claiming Gateway scores are invalid; it’s the Gwinnett County Public Schools Board of Education saying it.

If they could point to a couple cases where the Gateway actually DID anything, we could debate whether or not it’s worth spending 5 or 10 million dollars per incident to prevent social promotion – but, so far we have ZERO cases where it worked.

The only thing Gateway scores have proved is that we never needed it.

By KA

February 12, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Years ago, pre-Gateway when Gwinnett had the GEMS test and Iowa Basic Skills, etc. I asked the teachers and principal what they did with the results of the tests. Did they look at each student’s scores, examine their strengths and weaknesses and create a remediation plan for those kids who were not doing well? The answer was that they did NOTHING with the results to affect an individual’s student’s learning. NOTHING! The tests were used for school system stats and publication. IMO the Gateway was a waste of time, money, and student learning. I hope they eliminate the rest of it and bring back the Iowas Basic Skills test, a Nationally normed test that really tells us how the student is progressing relative to the nations’ students, not relative to the rest of the students in the county.

By Janine

February 12, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Good morning Bridget, jimd and all……jimd..I remember that someone has said that Perception equals reality, but not necessarily the truth. Isn’t that Perception equals reality thing the goal of all marketing efforts? ANd isn’t that what Gwinnet and every other school system in metro Atlanta doing….marketing their programs? To answer Bridget’s question , in my opinion the Gateway, the CRCT and any other test whose results are not useful or used for some valid purpose [and it must be for the purpose for which it is designed ] are, as you say, a *colossal waste of time and money. Both the CRCT and the Gateway fall into that category.

By Janine

February 12, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

KA…I totally agree. One thing that invalidates NCLB in it’s entirity is the fact that it allows each state to design its own test, make it as easy or as difficult as it wishes, and score it and say it means whatever the bureaucrats/educrats wish it to mean. That, of course, is why Alabama and Mississippi have almost no NCLB “failing schools”. However, IMO, the Ga. test is absolutely infantile and is scored on that level.

By mmm

February 12, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

Gwinnett’s succeeded in pushing Georgia into having a “statewide accountability system” that became the poster child for how we as a nation could test our way into educational success.

Do any of you remember how Gateway became the model Georgia adopted, and Georgia became one of the examples that the NCLB people put forth as an example where we needed to head as a nation? I guess the nation intends to follow Georgia’s lead for once! =)

By Janine

February 12, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

Einstein’s observation always comes to mind in a discussion about this testing frenzy that is now such an integral part of our public schools…. “not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts”.

By Janine

February 12, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

OHMYGOODNESS!!! Don’t remind us that GA started this madness!!

By jim d

February 12, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

Hate to disapoint you ladies, but Georgia wasn’t first.

The blame belongs to the same gentleman that brought us NCLB. Remember his long time family ties to the McCraws.

Texas has had a statewide high school graduation test since the mid 1980s – first the Texas Educational Assessment of Minimum Skills (TEAMS), and then the Texas Assessment of Academic Skills (TAAS).

By jim d

February 12, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

KA,

See how boring this blog can be when we agree? (LOL)

By JustMe

February 12, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

I don’t teach in Gwinnett. However, I have seen merit in their Gateway testing.

IMHO, I wish that the State would stop the EOCT. The EOCT results lend themselves to be mis-interpreted too much. For example, let’s say I teach a general biology class and my friend next door teaches accelerated/gifted biology. Guess which teacher has higher EOCT results? Should my friend be given a pat on the back and told she is a great teacher for these scores?

I wish that the State would drop EOCT in favor of Gateway-type tests. There should be one given as a “graduation test” for middle school. If a student cannot pass it, then they simply do not go on to high school, period. The student can either remain in middle school or go to an alternative school until they can pass it.

There is already a graduation test for high school - no change needed. Results from the high school graduation test can be analyzed to find weaknesses (english, math, etc.) in the school and which department needs to step up.

By using my approach, a lot of excessive testing can be discarded.

By jim d

February 12, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

The GATEWAY sucks!

It did nothing—zero—zilch—nada to help student achievement.

Now the crct? It too sucks. In Bibb County, nearly 1,100 students in 3rd, 5th and 8th grade levels in Spring 2006 failed the CRCT and the retest. Of those, only 71 were held back. More than 93% who failed were passed on to the next grade.

None of the 432 eighth-grade students who failed were held back. Not a single one.

Is it possible that every single eighth-grade student who failed the test were actually working at or above grade level? The odds on that must be astronomical. Or is it more likely that the principals chose to simply overlook the CRCT scores and socially promote nearly every one of these students?

Ok— So how is any of this helping kids learn?

By JustMe

February 12, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

jimd -

What your data tells me about Bibb County is scary. How can they promote students that are not prepared for the next level? This is unfair to the students as well as the teachers in the next grade.

To answer your question: how is any of this helping kids learn? Well, if Bibb County was taking responsibility, they would retrain those teachers that evidently wasted a year of the students time without teaching the curriculum! Obviously those teachers are not hitting the mark.

This change alone should help the kids learn what they are supposed to learn, and then they should be able to pass the pitifully easy CRCT.

If Bibb County continues to promote and promote, without merit, those poor kids will never pass the high school graduation test and the State will catch them! Those poor kids will have “learned” that they don’t have to do a darn thing to get “rewarded” and it will be too late when they get stuck in high school. Can you say, “high drop out rates?”

But, I already know what will happen. The Bibb County finger will then be pointed at the poor high school teachers as those schools do not make AYP. But, how can high school teachers teach the students all of the K-12 content?

Stop passing the buck in education!

By jim d

February 12, 2007 01:12 PM | Link to this

Just me,

That is the point I’m making. With waivers in place to promote these kids, nothing has changed from the days when teachers could promote just to get rid of a kid.

For all of this testing we’ve gained nothing. It’s not just Bibb either, check your own school system. You might be surprised. Although the data may be hard to find since most school systems don’t want people to know they can pass kids on that fail the test, simply by willing it done.

The simple truth of the matter is that in the early grades this is simply the beginning of grade inflation that will eventually bite these kids square in the britches when they go to college on a hope scholarship, flunk out and get a job flipping burgers.

By JustMe

February 12, 2007 02:35 PM | Link to this

jimd-

I agree. The state made a major loophole by allowing for these exceptions. What a mistake!

This doesn’t just bite these kids in college. It bites them in high school because these are the kids that cannot pass the high school graduation test.

I wonder what the passig rate for the high school graduation test is for Bibb County? Whatever it is, I bet that the rate will get even lower if they continue to pass these kids that do not deserve it!!!!

By Truth Filter

February 12, 2007 02:42 PM | Link to this

JustMe,

When you say “the state” who do you mean?

By Truth Filter

February 12, 2007 02:48 PM | Link to this

Pass Rates for GHGST in Bibb County - English: 94 percent - Math: 87 - Social Studies: 76 - Science: 54

By jim d

February 12, 2007 03:14 PM | Link to this

Truth,

“and now for the rest of the story”

http://www.gadoe.org/DMGetDocument.aspx/System%20Level%20Graduation%20Rates%20-%202004%202005%20and%202006%20Improvement.pdf?p=6CC6799F8C1371F6335A38E4BF1804B10D3842921474EDE2A57AC80116C4FB8E&Type=D

By JustMe

February 12, 2007 03:22 PM | Link to this

Truth Filter -

When I say, “the state” I mean the State of GA. It is Cox and the State Dept. of Ed. that sets the cut scores for CRCT and the rules for CRCT to include these exceptions being discussed.

It is my understanding that any child can be excused from passing the CRCT if the parent, teacher, and administrator all agree to go ahead and promote the student. This is the loop hole being discussed.

Also, the % passing rates you post for Bibb appear to be below State average. No wonder. And, if they continue to promote students that are not worthy, then those rates will only get worse.

By jim d

February 12, 2007 03:23 PM | Link to this

adding to their problems.

desegregation order controls over No Child Left Behind.

http://www.nsba.org/site/doc_cosa.asp?TRACKID=&VID=50&CID=1046&DID=39114

By Truth Filter

February 12, 2007 03:59 PM | Link to this

JustMe,

That is what I thought you’d say. Actually the provision in the legislation (HB 1190 in 2003-2004 session)that allowed for the “waivers” was put in place by the Democrats members of the House ed committee who held up the legislation until the final minutes of the session. The Republicans did not want this.

I’m not a partisan, really, but you certainly blame a lot on the Republicans — you need to share the blame in this one.

By HS Teacher Too

February 12, 2007 04:06 PM | Link to this

Hooray! Now if only they would get rid of it at the high school level. Getting rid of the test doesn’t just re-claim TESTING days that can be used for instruction; it also reclaims the “practice test” days!

With regard to the EOCT: It’s not a true EOCT if if is given a solid month before the end of the course. It’s also not a valid test if you look at the counltess ways the rules were bent, broken, and otherwise “interpreted” in terms of its administration. Test security? PAH! And then the icing on the cake is that the passing score is changed every year and is based on some secret formula. If we have to follow a model, how about the NYS regents exams, where the exams are graded the same way every year; based on a 100-point scale; sections are weighted the same each year; and the passing score is a 65? (By contrast it would likely be a 70 here in GA.) To the teacher above who commented about CP biology scores being compared to honors/gifted scores, do you think “pass rates,” rather than more detailed reports, would help that? It’s still not FAIR but it is, perhaps MORE fair than what we have now?

The whole subject of EOCTS and their administration boggles my mind. Trust me, I saved alllll the emails and photocopied “teachers, do this, contrary to the rules” instructions we received last year… and all the emails with anecdotal evidence about what was going on at other schools. The tests were about as meaningful and valid as anything my dog might write, if given a pencil and paper.

By jim d

February 12, 2007 04:10 PM | Link to this

Truth,

It truly doesn’t matter which party. The fact remains that politicans in general would not be able to claim all the gains they do if the truth were known.

By jim d

February 12, 2007 04:13 PM | Link to this

TT,

I’m with you. lets get rid of this high stakes testing crap and get on about the chore of educating our young people.

By jim d

February 12, 2007 04:16 PM | Link to this

Ding Dong! The Witch is dead. Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch! Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead.

By catlady

February 12, 2007 04:57 PM | Link to this

Here is the deal about these tests: we teachers don’t get the results back in a timely manner in a way we can ourselves use them to analyze and plan for the future. Of course, we don’t have TIME to sit down and analyze them anyway. But it sure would be nice, if we give the end of the year test in JANUARY AND FEBRUARY (ACCESS for ESOL students), for us to get the results back in time to plan for next year. This year they came in a couple of weeks after school had started. It happens in a similar way with the CRCT. The last 2 years we got it a day or two before summer break started, so all we could do was hurriedly inform parents of the results. Before that the results came back in the summer. Seems like to me, we spend so d——— much time giving them, we ought to USE THE RESULTS TO IMPROVE INSTRUCTION! Now there is a novel idea!

In addition, our system guards the data so zealously none of us with expertise in data analysis can get to it, so the official “spin” cannot be challenged. And there is more spin than a Whirlpool washer. We don’t let the data results contradict the official party line (sort of like our own WMD “intelligence”). Whoo! I smell that data cooking!

By catlady

February 12, 2007 05:21 PM | Link to this

Here is something I had heard about but thought it was a joke: some of our very very handicapped children are going to have to take the big tests, and BLINK THEIR EYES AT THE RIGHT ANSWER. Now, you understand that thes kids I am talking about at my school are not able to sit up, walk, feed themselves, or communicate in any way but somehow can coordinate themselves so that eye blinks tell us which answer they are selecting. I would still think it was a joke but our testing coordinator for the county told me it was true today. At what point do we pass rediculous and head for home plate?

By em

February 12, 2007 06:06 PM | Link to this

Bridget, Now you’ve got a story… How the State Department of Education wastes millions of dollars manipulating the data in order to make it appear that the children are receiving a quality education. I have been stating for years that both the EOCT and GWHSGT are jokes!

By HS Teacher Too

February 12, 2007 06:09 PM | Link to this

Catlady — Amen on both counts. Don’t think about it too hard, though, or your head will spin. There’s a part of me that wonders if the constant rescaling, passing cutoff, etc., is part of the way to keep the hard data inaccessible and/or keep us from figuring out too much about it if we happen to be number savvy.

“They” say education is cyclical. This is an awfully big wavelength for us to be sitting in this testing trough for so long. I’m beginning to feel trapped.

By catlady

February 12, 2007 06:31 PM | Link to this

HS2, as jim d says, “smoke and mirrors”.

By Janine

February 12, 2007 06:40 PM | Link to this

EM, ET AL…..I stick with my eval. …it’s all marketing!!!!

By jim d

February 13, 2007 08:05 AM | Link to this

Cat,

It’s not JUST smoke and mirrors—there’s a lot of PFM (Pure – Magic) involved.

If you’re really fed up with NCLB.—Do something about it besides complain

Follow the link—sign the petition and forward the link to everyone on your mailing list.

Let’s go for a million signatures!

A Petition Calling for the Dismantling of the No Child Left Behind Act

http://www.educatorroundtable.org/petition.html

By Anne

February 15, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

Standardized testing is way overrated in U.S schools. They are ment to determine how much a child has learned, but some children, may be really smart, but bad test takers, so that makes them not smart by the standardized test. They also determine whether a high school student is ready for college, but if you have ever taken a test such as the SAT, most of the material on that test was is never taught in schools, so it is unfair to all those students who were never taught the material.