Get Schooled

By JustMe

February 9, 2007 08:07 AM | Link to this

From what I can tell, a lot depends upon the school and the school districts. There are some schools with very active PTAs - teachers and parents.

IMHO, if parents want to be active there is an avenue. And, if parents are active then more teachers would participate. However, it cannot start with the teachers first. Teachers are already in the school and are give their input. The difference maker here is the PARENTS.

By jim d

February 9, 2007 08:12 AM | Link to this

Is it any wonder?

Let’s hold one more fund raiser

By beth

February 9, 2007 08:40 AM | Link to this

Ever occur to you that the teachers are TIRED after a long day of teaching, grading, bus duty, hallway duty, and mountains of administrative paperwork? I’m sure a lot of teachers didn’t FEEL like staying after for your fashion show.

My mother is a teacher, I taught for one year,and I have several friends who are teachers. The feeling at the end of the day is akin to being hit with a baseball bat. You are “ON” and responsible for those 8 hours, teaching, talking, watching, using discipline techniques and when its over, a lot of folks just want to go home, have a snack or dinner (LUNCH can be as early as 10:50 in the younger grades), and take a nap or go to bed. If you have never been a teacher, you do not know how it feels. If you want to use your vacation days to go to the school, that’s fine and dandy. Just don’t expect the teachers to be there with bells on too. They are tired and a lot of teachers have children or aging parents that they must take care of.

By KA

February 9, 2007 08:47 AM | Link to this

I was very active in PTA during my kids’ elementary years, chairing committees, serving as officers, including president. It was not easy, but we grew our PTA into a very successful and community inclusive group. IMO our school Principal, Olivia Hodges, was the lynchpin to our success. Every summer before the school year we met with her and discussed the goals the parents wanted to achieve, and asked for input from the teachers. Then she would meet with the teachers and they would present us with a wish list, so our budget forming was a cooperative process. We started a VIP, Very Involved Parent committee that staffed the teacher workroom everyday to complete projects the teachers gave us, copying, constructing classroom and hallway bulletin boards, laminating, etc. Part of our budget included money for copy paper and laminating film, whcih the teachers needed and appreciated. Some VIP’s helped in the classroom, with clear rules established beforehand for parent interaction and even a dress code! We started a READ TREK reading incentive program, that was a huge success in encouraging reluctant readers to read more. Each year we gave each teacher $50 for supplies. We funded a nurse and stocked a small infirmary for sick children. We grew from a bake sale group to one that had the traditional fall fundraiser, but also many fun community activities like our fall and spring festivals, talent shows, spaghetti dinners, auctions, etc. We had a committee who looked for community business partners to fund our visitng artists, field trips or special projects. We scheduled our fun events around the monthly PTA business meeting so that people showed up and learned about what we were accomplishing. We clearly laid out our goals and budgets to parents and teachers at the beginning of the year, and then followed through. We put a composite rubber floor over the concrete in the gym, and equipment in the gym and on the playground. Let me assure you that our community when I started was 90% working class, blue collar, with no tennis moms, and when my kids were small ‘soccer’ was a foreign word in our town. We invited everyone to help and gave out a sign up/info sheet at the beginning of the year for people to sign up for what they wanted to help with, whether it was every day, once a month or once a year. We didn’t harass them to do more, if they just wanted to help once, but we found that parents and teachers became friends working on projects together, and our participation grew every year. We were truly building our community, and that feeling is still there today at Dacula Elementary.

By ECLB

February 9, 2007 08:48 AM | Link to this

Well, if you look at the National PTA’s website, you’ll find that their motto is “Every child, one voice.” Perhaps that is why so many parents and teachers are disillusioned with the PTA organization. In an education world of NCLB, I don’t want my kids to be lumped together with kids who don’t have the same needs, aren’t at my school, etc. Many schools have gone the way of eliminating the official PTA simply because they do not agree with legislative positions of the national organization. Schools that can lobby with their local representatives for needed change at their schools can be just as successful as the ones that rely on the national PTA structure for change. In some cases, because the control over the organization is strictly held at the school level, they can be more successful in fighting for what their particular school, and the children who attend. It’s not that the parents don’t care about the schools or the children who go there, it’s that we are sick of being nickeled and dimed to death with constant fundraisers and disagreements over national positions that don’t work for our individual schools. As a parent, I am more than happy to volunteer at the school, organize events, support the teachers, but not if it doesn’t make sense for our particular school. And, with PTA board membership being little more than an adult popularity contest, is it any wonder that so many adults simply want to opt out?

By Lola

February 9, 2007 08:52 AM | Link to this

What a sad state of affairs. Why do people have children if they have no interest in being involved? And why do people become teachers if they see it as just a paycheck and not an actual opportunity to make a difference in childrens’ lives? It certainly can’t be for the high salary.

Apathy from either side is nothing short of pathetic, and the ones who lose are the kids.

How about thinking about someone besides yourself for a change? And that applies to both teachers AND parents. Teaching and parenting are important and vital jobs, probably the most vital ones people can have, so afford that job the respect it deserves, and make the sacrifices necessary to ensure you are doing your part to provide for the future leaders of our country. What you do or don’t do could make all the difference to how they turn out.

Not doing your part for kids is nothing but selfish and immoral, and I find it really disgusting that this is even an issue.

By OhMy

February 9, 2007 08:53 AM | Link to this

I’m a little divided here. Nevertheless, sounds like there are quite a few bitter teachers out there. Teaching, IMO, is not a 9 to 5 kind of job. If you are not willing to go above and beyond sometimes for the good of the kids, then maybe teaching is not your calling, and another career path should be explored. And of course, I’m not saying all teachers, but some are just truly bitter.

By jim d

February 9, 2007 08:58 AM | Link to this

KA,

Today we agree.

Olivia, was the key—great lady with a lot of insight and an excellent motivator. The teachers at Ft. Daniel diserve a lot of credit too, as do the parents that worked so hard to get that program off the ground in a flying fashion.

However, yes we did have a couple of tennis moms. :-)

By Lola

February 9, 2007 09:04 AM | Link to this

@ Beth -

You are “ON” and responsible for those 8 hours, teaching, talking, watching, using discipline techniques and when its over, a lot of folks just want to go home, have a snack or dinner (LUNCH can be as early as 10:50 in the younger grades), and take a nap or go to bed. If you have never been a teacher, you do not know how it feels

Guess what, Beth? Welcome to life. That’s the same thing the rest of us do out in the real world of corporate jobs. We have to be “ON” for at least 8 hours, if not 9. Some days there IS no lunch, and some days last 10-12 hours long. It’s called making a living, and teachers aren’t the only ones who have to put in a full day. But unlike you, we don’t get tenure or a summer off, and we certainly can be fired at any time for any reason. So spare us the pity party. Everyone has to work and make a living, and teachers certainly have it now worse than anyone else does. You chose your profession, so live up to the expectations that come along with it. If you’re not prepared to do that, maybe you should be in another field altogether.

By KA

February 9, 2007 09:04 AM | Link to this

Following on beth’s comments, we had some resistance from teachers until they saw how much our PTA was willing to work to make the school a better environment for them and for the students. We parents truly partnered with our school. That said, the school often expected too much from the volunteers. I put in at least 30 hours a week while I was PTA pres., either at school or at home working on projects, getting volunteers, working out problems, and TALKING endlessly with people who wanted to chat for half an hour before we talked about the task at hand. I was not paid for the time I put in, but I was always ‘on call’ and received calls sometimes at 11pm. I would advise you teachers that say you are working hard and are tired, well, so are the parent volunteers. Most of our parents worked full time or part time, and very few were stay at home moms or dads. They were tired after a day at work, too, but came to our meetings and gatherings because it was important for their children. How many other professions or workplaces have the potential for so much volunteer assistance? We also gave our teachers gift baskets and appreciation luncheons, babysat their classes to give them an afternoon off. However, I don’t remember a similar volunteer appreciation day… So teachers, please show some appreciation for your volunteers and less whining about how hard you work!

By lynn d

February 9, 2007 09:12 AM | Link to this

Oh, boy those teachers sound like a PITA. Our PTA gives each teacher $100 in start up funds and then another $150ish in mini-grant funds to be used during the school year. (The start up money comes with no strings —the mini-grant money has to be used for approved expenditures.)

Several years ago, our PTA made the decision to start having more events on Friday night rather than during the week. Our principal warned us that this would pose a hardship for many of the teachers cause they don’t live in the area and Friday afternoons they are allowed to leave right away. Because Friday night made more sense for families, we have some events on Friday nights (and are very understanding if teachers don’t come) and have some events during the week so that teachers can participate.

The teachers always right notes and are so grateful — we take the profit of the book fair in books and they get a ton of new ones each year. Parents love to be the delivery person because the teachers are so excited.

By beth

February 9, 2007 09:16 AM | Link to this

Lola-I do not teach anymore. One year was enough for me. I’m in the corporate world and loving it—despite having only one week of vacation a year, and sometimes going without lunch.

I was simply trying to bring another perspective to the discussion. And OhMy, there ARE a lot of bitter teachers who don’t do what I did and get out.

By KA

February 9, 2007 09:19 AM | Link to this

jim, truce, yes Olivia was the key. We started very small, as there were 200 kids in Dacula elementary when my oldest started kindergarten in ‘88, and then grew to five additional elementary schools when the Dacula area’s population exploded. The Dacula PTA model went with each group of parents as they opened the new schools, so success spread. Finally GCPS split off the southern and northern ends of the Dacula cluster to form Grayson and Mill Creek clusters. And yes, there are many tennis and soccer moms now. But my point is that it was the hard work of regualr working people, and not any ‘privileged’ neighborhoods that made our PTA a success. All you need is leadership, cooperation with the principal and teachers, a smile to welcome volunteers, and a big THANK YOU for any all help your receive.

By lynn d

February 9, 2007 09:20 AM | Link to this

“However, I don’t remember a similar volunteer appreciation day… So teachers, please show some appreciation for your volunteers and less whining about how hard you work!”

This week, our school had a volunteer appreciation tea — the teachers provided side dishes and desserts and the administration provided a light entree. It was lovely. They had bookmarks with some kind of saying on it for each volunteer.

Our challenge isn’t so much in getting people to be in charge of individual events — but to lead the whole organization. But we muddle through.

By KA

February 9, 2007 09:26 AM | Link to this

ECLB, Our PTA never really knew or cared what the national PTA was doing or promoting. We were a grass roots group, working with each other in the community all for the benefit of our school children.

By PTA Pres.

February 9, 2007 09:27 AM | Link to this

I am PTA president at my kids school. Again, it PTA stands for Parent Teacher Association not just parents and not just teachers. It takes both. I have been doing everything to get the parents involved, but too no avail as well as the teachers. And for Beth, how can a teacher be tired of an occupation that they chose. Parents and Teachers need to more involved….

By TJ

February 9, 2007 09:37 AM | Link to this

I believe that much of the teacher involvement directly coincides with the parents’ and students’ involvement after school. I am in a low income/immigrant community and there is little to no parent or community involvement. Teachers go above and beyond anything the PTA or parents ever do. I also believe that PTA is also directly related to the grade level of the student. Parents are much more involved in the elementary level, but as the kids get older, the parental involvement declines to the point where it is non-existant. I have stayed for PTA meetings and School Council Meetings, only to see 4 parents in the audience and a few of the committee members missing. If the teaches didn’t spend our own money, our students would be without a lot. We put out, yet we are still a failing school and in our 3rd year of NON AYP. I wish we had the support of the parents and community. I believe we would have a better chance for success, because kids model only what see and learn. If the parents don’t show they care and support the school, why should the kids care about their own education.

By a high school mom

February 9, 2007 09:42 AM | Link to this

A successful PTA makes the school. Most, if not all of the enrichment programs are funded by the PTA. I’d much rather participate in a few fundraisers during the year than pay another couple of thousand dollars in taxes. When you raise money at the school level, it stays there. You can always say no to a fundraiser, but the taxes will be there to stay, and not necessarily flow back into your n’hood schools.

The PTA partners with local businesses, strengthening ties. Everyone has a stake in the community. A strong and supportive PTA makes a great school. Good schools = higher property values. If teachers do not want to participate in the school’s program, it sounds like there is a problem at the top, in the administration.

I agree that a few members of the PTA may, at times, resemble at twisted set of sorority sisters. If a popularity contest is not your thing, that’s fine, but don’t let it keep you from making your child’s school the best it can be. Your child wants you to be there. You don’t have to be an officer or chair a committee to be a vital part of the organization.

I was an active member of the PTA when my son was in elementary school. I was never an officer, but I chaired the Accelerated Reader program for a few years. It was a rewarding experience. And, it was work, no doubt about it. To expect a volunteer appreciation day sounds a bit ridiculous. I’m sure the PTA hosts a brunch or luncheon for the volunteers. You volunteer b/c you are doing something without the expectation of something in return.

By beth

February 9, 2007 09:43 AM | Link to this

PTA Pres, I was referring to actual physical exhaustion. Can any teachers out there verify? Maybe I just had a vitamin deficiency that year.

Oh well. I was just trying to represent that teaching is a demanding job, and teachers might not feel like staying for a lot of after school activities.

I’ll go away now. Back to my non teaching job. Ya’ll have a good one.

By Dekalb Educator

February 9, 2007 09:49 AM | Link to this

Teachers do not get summers off. AND YES..we can be fired at any time for any reason…TRUST ME.

In my experience..I have come to hate the PTA meetings. Last school year, There were only 7 parents at a meeting. 4 were PTA officers. I have had to take care of both parents (older and ill) while living with them for a stint, work 8 plus hrs and hang around for PTA. I have been pregnant..had parent teacher conferences followed by PTA..now I have a child of my own and there is no “extra” time in my day.

I do NOT mind PTA meetings, however, we can not always be expected to show up SMILING and basking in JOY of being there. A lot of teachers travel to work. So a PTA day would mean a 12 hr day. Why drive home only to turn around and have to come back?

Oh Yeah…MANY days go where we dont eat lunch. Our lunch gets brought back to the room and eaten after dismissal. Now..that is an average of 8 hrs (give or take) without a meal.

So please..please stop assuming that teachers just have it like that. We dont..well, at least not at my school.

By KA

February 9, 2007 09:49 AM | Link to this

lynn, good to hear that! My PTA pres. experience was not easy, and I cried many times. I had one mom who was also a sub at the school and threatened me with bodily harm over some gossip she had heard about me. (Gossip kills, there outta be law!) However, at the end of the school year she came up to me and apologized, because she said she realized that the gossip was wrong and that I had the best intentions for the school. Some PTA’s have a lot of trouble with power struggles among their officers and committee chars. I had those problems, too. When board members or officers called me complaining about how “I” was doing something, I would reply, “well there are many ways to get a job done, and if you think your way is better, then you can take over as president, and I’ll call the rest of the board and tell them I’m resigning and that you have volunteered to take my place.” Needless to say they backed off. We worked through all of the problems, one at a time. But happily our hard work paid off.

By KA

February 9, 2007 09:56 AM | Link to this

high school mom, I made the comment about volunteer appreciation to beth not becasue I ever expected or wanted something, but because many PTA’s give a lot of support to the teachers, and still the teachers whine. My point was that there aren’t many or any other professions that have the potential for so much volunteer support.

By By: SC

February 9, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this

I think that PTA meetings are a waste of time. As a parent of three, I don’t want to see another fashion show, don’t want to attend another pancake supper or a spaghetti supper and please forget about the fundraisers (the ridiculous wrapping paper and cheese spreads and jewelry). I don’t have time as a fulltime mother and wife and also employed full time and lets not forget about all the homework and projects my children are required to do and to top it off reviewing for the CRCT to attend these boring meetings. I would prefer to spend the time that I do have at home with my family doing something that we like. I think the PTA should be revamped to donations levels. Example: Bronze, Silver and Gold. Once a donation is made at a level, leave the parent alone. Volunteering in the schools and attending the PTA meetings are just overrated.

By lynn d

February 9, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

As for PTA meetings, we have a teacher liason who attends to represent the teachers — we bill our monthly meetings as board meetings — though the whole community is welcomed to attend — they are basically business meetings. Three times a year at other events, ie Bingo NIght, Family Dinner, we have general PTA meetings just to give an update, etc.

By OLd Physics Teacher

February 9, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

PTA President,

I sympathize and empathize with you. I’ve been on both ends, and still am as a teacher. My wife ran our high school PTA for 2 years and for 10 extra years was on the board (three years longer than we had kids in the school system). Many, if not most, teachers don’t want to stay any longer than necessary (just like the Real World), and then you have to deal with apathetic parents too. It is a thankless job, but one that is quite necessary! I look at it like I do a soldier standing guard for our nation. Someone has to look out for the community at large, and it takes a special type of person to “fall on a grenade.” Most of the teachers on this forum ARE the type that will stay late with you. I’m sure all of us understand your problems and appreciate what you do for your community’s school.

By KA

February 9, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

SC, Our PTA tried the donation levels one year and had a shortfall in our budget, instead of our usual year end surplus. Rather than complain about what you don’t want to do, why don’t you just write that check to your PTA? Believe me, they will put it to good use.

By TJ

February 9, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

TO SC:

I am sorry you feel that way. Are you the parent that only shows up when there is an issue with your child, and you immediately attack staff and administration at the school without acknowledging that your child could be the root of the issue, not just singled out and “picked on.”

Your attitude epitomizes one of the fundamental issues with education. The more parents are involoved in their children’s education at the school, the more the children are going to understand how important school and education really are.

If your children’s school is an excellent one, it is because another parent is picking up your slack to make sure their child has the best education possible. So your child is benefitting for someone else who cares more than you.

By H

February 9, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

I have to agree with what you wrote. I am currently the Recording Secretary for our school PTA, and I can tell you if we get more than 10 parents and 3 teachers at a meeting it’s a miracle. I think it’s sad that while teachers and parents want to complain about what they are not receiving from the school and what the school is not receiving, they won’t make the sacrifice to pay the measly $7.00 to join and have their voices heard. I know that for me, being a Classified Employee making less than $18000 a year, if I can afford to pay my $7 to join, then the other parents and teachers who make more than that can also afford to do so. To me, it just shows a lack of committment on the part of the parents and teachers. Teachers can’t expect change if they don’t allow their voices to be heard, and neither can the parents.

By jim d

February 9, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

SC,

I agree that PTA and all the fundraisers can be a real pain, but sometimes you just gotta suck it up and do what needs doing. I’m confident if you were to just write a check for a couple hundred dollars they’d be happy to leave you alone.

By Angry & Tired

February 9, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

You talk about about PTA meeting…These baby’s that we teach/babysit are off the hook and it does not start at school. I am so tired by 10:00 of redirecting and handling social issues from home teaching is secon, third and fourth!!! We are burned out and tired!!! You can have all the classroom management techniques and all the professional development but in the classroom it’s the teacher against 30 who feel we are agaisnt them!!! It’s the ultimate power struggle and when you try to get parents involve it’s no successful at all with acknowledging behavior accepting learning disabilites and everything else that goes into that equation…So yes PTA most time is second!!! We are tired and until everyone is apart of the equation obtaining the same goal it is second nature!!!

By Momof3

February 9, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Well said Old Physics Teacher. Someone does need to look out for the good of all of our children and the community. This is especially true for kids who are stuck with apathetic parents such as SC who feels volunteering to help their local school is “overrated” and a burden We know through numerous studies that students perform better and schools are more successful when parents are involved. I have been involved in PTA for many years and have served as a Local Unit (School)PTA President and Council PTA President. A strong PTA can make all the difference in the world to a school’s success regardless of the income or racial makeup of the school. I am sure you will find when you look that the schools that are not making AYP all have one thing in common - very little parent involment. In my opinion being a good parent requires being involved with your child and there is nothing more important than their education. So a big thank you to all those PTA volunteers who everyday make a difference in the lives of our children.

By well said

February 9, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Well said, Angry and Tired. I challenge anyone who has never taught to go get your degree, get certified, and teach for a full year before you pass judgement on what teachers should be required to stay after work for.

It would be akin to your boss in the corporate world asking you to stay after work for a meeting that your clients don’t care enough to come to but you’re supposed to be there with a big grin on your face. And not get paid extra for it.

And for all you parents who care so much, you are in the minority. Most parents these days don’t give a rat’s behind.

Hats off to teachers. You deserve every holiday and time off that comes your way.

By KA

February 9, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

For our PTA, I didn’t care if the teachers came or not, as it was a volunteer organization. It was the Principal who asked the teachers to come to the meetings. So teachers, you need to work it out with your principal because the parent volunteer has no authority to require uyour attendance, and frankly we don’t want you there if you have such a negative attitude. We also scheduled meetings and our spaghetti dinners for the Open House nights that teachers had to be there to showcase the students’ work and to talk about their class plans to parents. I don’t understand the teachers’ animosity when the volunteers are just trying to help the teachers and students have a better learning environment. I don’t have anyone volunteering to help me at work!

By JustMe

February 9, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

To the posters that think teachers are bitter….

I have been teaching for 4 years. And, I am shocked at how bitter I have become over that short time.

I began the career with the hopes to help students get a great education. What I have found is a place that includes babysitting, breaking up fights, no support from some parents or the administration, and so on.

Teachers are accused of not doing our job if students don’t do their part. Teachers are accused of not doing our job if parents don’t do their part.

And this is all just the part of ‘trying to teach content’ in the classroom! On top of this, we are asked to do hall duty, bus duty, sponsor clubs, coach sports, etc.

Is it a 9 to 5 job - heck no! It is your entire life. We end up grading papers on Saturday nights, trying to phone parents on Sunday afternoons, filling out administrative paperwork at 6 PM weekdays, and so on.

In addition, we go shopping to buy school supplies because the school system doesn’t give us enough white board markers, or any other supplies for that matter. Sometimes, I forget to go grocery shopping for me!!!!

Do we have time for our own children, spouse, or have any sort of personal life? What do you think?

On top of all of this, now some of you want to criticize teachers for not wanting to stay even later on week days to attend PTA meetings where there are no parents?

Get a grip!

If you really expect someone to give up their entire life for meager wages, send your child to a Catholic school where the Nuns teach!

Do students need this attention? Of course. But, you cannot get blood from a turnip no matter how hard you squeeze.

By wwww

February 9, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

I think SC said it best.

I don’t take lack of parent attendance at PTA meetings/fundraisers/etc as a lack of interest in their child per se, but a lack of interest in sitting at or going to yet another don for money. I have to problem giving to the PTA. They do great things. People just want time at home, to do what they feel is important with their families. And sorry to say, a PTA fashion show is just not important to most people.

Same goes for teachers. Please do not assume teachers do not attend these out of laziness.
Teachers are teachers, not life changers, not moral instillers, not counselors, stand in parents, etc.; but the good ones do it anyway because we care about our kids. We are already so much to so many students that WE need some time either alone or with our own families. I do not assume corporate jobs are easy, so please, lets not assume just because teachers don’t attend we don’t care. It’s simply not true.

By just a teacher

February 9, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

Several earlier posts mention the importance of the administration in fostering a healthy working relationship between teachers and parents. I cannot agree more. My school’s PTSA has had 100% teacher membership every year that I’ve been here: this is a direct result of the importance that the administration has placed on our membership. Our PTSA goes above and beyond for the school and we appreciate them.

(For those folks who simply insist on using this forum for teacher-bashing, please realize that the attitude you project is a significant reason so many members of the profession feel demoralized. If possible, please include the qualifiers “many,” “several,” or “some” when you attack us. For those who stand up for teachers, please know that your support makes a tremendous difference as well. Thank you.)

By mmm

February 9, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

We admitted we weren’t up to it and dropped the chapter. We still have parent volunteering, but it is specific to the particular need to be addressed. There is a subcommittee of the board that rides herd on suggesting or restraining ideas consistent with the school’s mission.

By TJ

February 9, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

Lola… Please visit an inner-city school from 30min. before to 30min. after. Get a pass to and observe different classes, levels of students, lunch, and stick around for a practice or two. You might learn a little about the real world of education.

By beth

February 9, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

JustMe, I couldn’t resist coming back and commenting. Like you, I was surprised at how bitter I became. I commend you for sticking with teaching. I wish there was a way to exchange emails. Just know that there are people out here who know EXACTLY how you feel and what you are going through. I couldn’t take the heat. But you are awesome for staying in there!

By wwww

February 9, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

Way to go, just a teacher. I couldn’t have said your second paragraph any better.

By Lola

February 9, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

This entire topic is a perfect example of why school vouchers should be implemented, teachers unions dismantled and public schools subjected to competition. Teachers would no longer have to worry about apathetic parents if they were to teach in a school where education were the priority, rather than “babysitting, breaking up fights, no support from some parents or the administration” as JustMe wrote. Parents should be held responsible for participation in their child’s education, teachers should be an integral part of a child’s continuing growth in education, and it should be something they are happy to do, rather than seeing it as a waste of their time.

Get rid of the adminitrative nightmares teachers face, the unsupportive administrators, and the bitter teachers. Let people who truly want to make a difference fill those slots, and make schools accountable for results. Making public schools competitive would solve so many problems in such a short time.

By Wow

February 9, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

Lola if it was that easy!!!! The districts are begging for teachers!!!! Anyway with the soulutions Parents are first at the end of the day and Teachers are blame!!!

By JustMe

February 9, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this

Lola -

Vouchers would most certainly NOT resolve the problem. Vouchers would add unique problems to the ones we already have!

Vouchers do not suddenly make parents care more. Vouchers do not suddenly free up time for parents or teachers. Vouchers do not make administrators suddenly support their teachers more.

And, you mention teacher unions. Keep in mind that there are NO TEACHER UNIONS IN GA!!!!!! IMHO, we need a real teacher union to force school system to make positive changes for education. Teachers are (for the most part) the caring and professional adults that want the best for students and are trained to make the wisest decisions.

By mmm

February 9, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

Lola—you have failed to explain how vouchers will magicly produce parents that are not apathetic. They will let those that aren’t apathetic find something else, but unless you think every parent already cares enough to notice that better behavior on their part will help their children, I don’t see how vouchers will do it.

By KA

February 9, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

I am not a teacher, and at one time I consdiered getting a teacher certificate, but after volunteering for many years in the schools I knew that the teaching profession was pretty miserable for the teachers. I am glad I was able to volunteer and help in my kids’ schools. We accomplished a lot to help the kids and create a sense of community that continues to this day. (smile) I am here to applaud the hard working teachers and the hard working parent volunteers. It’s not US against THEM, because basically we are all in this together. Both sides need some patience and understanding.

By RJ

February 9, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

I’m always amazed that so many people feel that because you teach you should be willing to constantly “give” of yourself. It’s almost like you’re not expected to have a life outside of your kids. No, I didn’t get into teaching because of the paycheck, especially since I’ve spent 10 of the 12 years I’ve been teaching working a second job to help take care of my family. Now that I’m in my 30’s, I’ve come to the realization that this isn’t the career for me because I can’t continue to keep up this pace. With that being said, most teachers expect to attend PTA meetings, but as a parent I find them a waste of time. I don’t need to be read to.

As far as welcoming us to the “real” world, I invite you to come into my classes where students are not only disrespectful but when you call the parents they are equally disrepectful to them. We beg parents to participate and get involved, but the overwhelming majority won’t. I have parents that refuse to return phone calls regarding their child’s failure or behavior, yet will be yelling bloody murder if they’re retained.

We break up fights, ask them to refrain from vulgar language repeatedly and have to try and teach all the while. Yeah, I want to stay after for PTA meetings after a day here! Please! If they won’t return a phone call, do you really think they’re coming to a meeting?! We’re not bitter, we’re just real. Sometimes reality stinks, but it’s still reality!

By By: SC to TJ and KA

February 9, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

My children already knows the importance of there education. It is expected to only do the best when it comes to their education. My children are A&B students and are VERY WELL BEHAVE children. So, I have never experienced going up to a school for discussion of behavior problems or bad grades. Sorry, my family doesn’t fit your mold. We go up to the school and participate in the honors programs which are important. Participating in PTA and Volunteering at my children schools doesn’t have anything to do with my children understanding that education is important. My husband and I values and morals and our expectations of our children are the reasons why my children values their education. Therefor, as I said again PTA meetings are a waste of my families time. I did not say that PTA is not needed but need to be restructured to fit families and teachers today and by the way, I do write a check to PTA and we still received the fundraisers.

By JustMe

February 9, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Lola -

Here is what would happen with your “competitive” school approach….

Parents would seek out schools where the appearance is that the students are doing well. However, this appearance turns out to be simple grade inflation. “Give all students A’s” and the students and parents are happy. Administrators will insist upon this in order to get more students, more vouchers, more money. Forget that they are not learning anything!

The truely good school that insist upon learning will go out of business because all of their students likely don’t make As and those parents will yank them out of concern for their gpa.

Then, standardize test scores come in and that school with grade inflation has low scores because the students never learned anything. Everyone starts to complain about the standardized test and pressures the State to dumb that down as well.

So now, everyone is happy until that student reaches college and flunks out of college. And, by then it is too late to find the real problem - no preparation for college. They will find other things to blame.

Sounds good, right?

By Tired

February 9, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

JustMe the school I am at is in trouble today behind that policy…Five years ago to now is like what happened!!!! Well spoken!!!! From the top to the bottom we are covering the truth up!!! Through that we all are frustrated!!! It’s almost a no win situation which puts PTA on the back burner!!! I did pay my dues for PTA but still did not attend meetings bc of coaching, tutoring, just going home after work!!!

By beth

February 9, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

RJ you keep preaching. You tell it like it is.

By HS Teacher Too

February 9, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

JustMe —

That scenario you describe is happening already. Just look to the “best” schools in the metro area — those with the great test scores and HOPE recipients also seem to have high rates of students who go on to lose the HOPE and/or need to take remediation classes when they get to college. So, they got those As and Bs mommy and daddy wanted, but didn’t learn anything, as evidenced by the university placement exams.

This is a BIG tangent from our PTA thread, though!

Sorry folks!

By HS Teacher Too

February 9, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

JustMe —

That scenario you describe is happening already. Just look to the “best” schools in the metro area — those with the great test scores and HOPE recipients also seem to have high rates of students who go on to lose the HOPE and/or need to take remediation classes when they get to college. So, they got those As and Bs mommy and daddy wanted, but didn’t learn anything, as evidenced by the university placement exams.

This is a BIG tangent from our PTA thread, though!

Sorry folks!

By teachergirl

February 9, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Let me just address anyone who thinks that teachers want a pity party for their 8 hours “on”. I have been in the corporate world as well as now being a teacher in the public school system. There is a HUGE difference between sitting in a cube all day slaving away on a computer to those jobs that demand constant human interaction. I was a trainer in the corporate world. There were days that when I was sick, if all I had to do that day was come in and sit in a cube and do my work, I would have been in there. But when you are a teacher, you are responsible for being “on” in front of your audience - whether it’s adults or kids. It’s not just public school teachers that face this - even nurses, doctors, retail people - when you deal with the public 8 hours a day, you are more tired than someone who interfaces with a computer and a phone all day. Until you’ve trained an 8-hour class when you’re sick or run down,then kindly step aside. Teaching is not for everyone. Jobs demanding constant public interaction aren’t for everyone either, but the people that do have them and do choose them do have days (just like everyone else) where they need some downtime too. A fashion show? At the end of the day, I’d rather sit in a PTA meeting that focused on the new and good things our school is doing as a result of the PTA.

By KA

February 9, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

SC, Good for you and your family. BTW, I don’t have a mold, nor care to tell you how to parent. I was responding to your pronouncement that, “Volunteering in the schools and attending the PTA meetings are just overrated.” I was offering my experiences of what worked for our PTA at my kids schools. I was also responding to your comment about donation levels. Our PTA we did try the donation levels and didn’t raise enough money that year! PTA is voluntary and fundraising is voluntary and you can choose to participate or not, or write a check, good for you! Our PTA was successful and we were able to bring our community of caring parents, teachers and kids together who all enjoyed helping the school and having fun with each other, too.

By so glad

February 9, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

KA we’re so glad your PTA was successful. What do you do for a living?

By HS Teacher Too

February 9, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

sorry about the multiple posts.

By KA

February 9, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

teachergirl, PTAs use spaghetti dinners, fashion shows, talent shows to lure the parents to school for the PTA meeting and also for for teacher Open Houses, Art Shows, etc. If you are so tired, then tell your principal, and don’t blame the PTA!

By luvs2teach

February 9, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

The PTSA at my middle school is WONDERFUL! Not only do the teachers support them, they support us, too. We’re more than happy to give them dues at the start of the year.

By catlady

February 9, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

Kudos to those who labor for PTA. The half dozen (literally, out of a school of 600+ kids) who show up are wonderful. Some teachers have a real big problem with doing much for PTA because they get tired of being 300% of the attendance at meetings. Also, in the case in my county, the county continues to add work and unpaid responsibilities to our time, without any compensation given. To me, if you increase responsibilities, the contract should be renegotiated before you should assume that the employee will do the work. At my school, in addition to work a teacher usually takes home (grading papers, preparing lesson plans) our county has added nearly THREE WEEKS of additional, before- and after-school reponsibilities to our requirements, without renegotiating. Now, tell folks in other areas that, and see how “up” they can become about what you want them to volunteer to do.

By Tired

February 9, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Well said Catlady our we certainly volunteer through out 180 days and it is not a bad thing just can’t be at two places at one time!!!! Money is not everything bc I would not be teaching but we put our time in and we are not lazy if we don’t do PTA!!! It’s enough representives at a school to spread out accordingly!! I do support from afar and appreciate their effort to make my hectic day better!!! Excuse me from earlier but it has been a trying week in this high school I am out and I am vent more so but I love the babies through the good bad and ugly and it gets nasty!!! Have a great weekend!!!!

By Ernest

February 9, 2007 01:38 PM | Link to this

I’ll admit, I got burned out when I served as a PTA officer. I was probably part of a dying breed, a male willing to serve in that capacity. I say that kiddingly but really appreciate all the mothers for stepping up and doing what is necessary for their PTAs.

While other obligations prevent me from being as ‘physically’ involved these days, I make sure that I’m ‘financially’ involved by giving donations. I support several schools in which having positive male role models is important so I especially make sure to support those schools. There is something about the look of appreciation from a young child that makes all my problems seem small.

Let me also say I appreciate the teachers that join the PTAs. I understand in some schools it may be ‘expected’ that they join and/or attend a certain number of meetings. As a rationalize it, I say its just part of the job. Having a wife that is a teacher along with kids in three different schools, it gets interesting when they have meetings that all fall on the same day.

By RJ

February 9, 2007 01:49 PM | Link to this

Well stated catlady and Tired! It’s almost like we’re expected to “live” our jobs! And the compensation is an entirely different story! We’re NEVER compensated for the extra long hours we put in, nor for the times when we go into our pockets to ensure that students have what they need. I cannot think of a single career where employees are expected to spend their own money to do their job!

The PTA is a very important part of the school, however it takes the part of everyone.

KA - your comment about not having anyone volunteering at your job to help you work is insane! I doubt that you go into the classrooms and teach! I also doubt that you handle unruly kids! Please! You are the one with the animosity. Maybe you should consider homeschooling!

By luvs2teach

February 9, 2007 02:11 PM | Link to this

To Lola @ 9:04

You do realize that we don’t have tenure in Georgia, right? And you also realize that teachers can, and are, fired?

I have worked in both the corporate world and teaching - teaching is my calling; I love it, and I’d never go back. But there are many days that I do this where it is harder than a day in the corporate world ever was. By “on” Beth means “on” like a waitress constantly on duty with a difficult customer, not merely at work. By your comment regarding “no lunch” I assume you mean no time to go out to eat - maybe you have to sip a Campbell’s cup of soup while you type. Teachers never go out to eat (except on teacher workdays:-)) and in middle school we have to eat with our kids.

Why am I defending Beth, even though she left the profession? Because I’m sick of the bashing - oh, you should be happy to do all these extra duties because you chose the job and you get summers off. Well, BS to that - I’m not paid for my summers.

It is both more rewarding and at the same time more difficult than you could ever, ever imagine. It is not an nine to five job - we all know that. But we’re not indentured servants either.

By RJ

February 9, 2007 02:12 PM | Link to this

RJ, My kids are grown, I’m not a teacher, my PTA volunteer years are far behind, and trust me I don’t have any animosity toward anyone. I admire teachers and volunteers alike. the comment you took issue with was tongue in cheek as I certainly don’t expect any volunteer help at work! If you had read my other comments today, you may not have been so sharp with me.

By TruthBeTold

February 9, 2007 02:13 PM | Link to this

I for one am not suprised to hear that so many teachers dislike their jobs and so many parents are not interested in their children’s education!

This is the main reason I volunteer in the classroom and am on the PTA board at my chidren’s school. I am determined that my child WILL get the best education. By volunteering in the classroom, I know exactly what is going on. The teachers appreciate any help you can give them, thus giving them more time to TEACH.

As for the PTA, every family MUST be involved at some level. It is a sacrifice and should be mandantory. Most private schools I know require a minimum number of hours per month or year that the family MUST take an active part at the school. This should also be a requirement at the public schools as well. It is beyond me how you can send your child to school and not be concerned with what is happening at school. My kids are my top priority - period!

Please stop and think about YOUR children. Their success in life depends on active parenting and quality teachers!

By edge770

February 9, 2007 02:22 PM | Link to this

I read the article and one of the comments, Olivia Hodges is a communist nut case that may know how to raise money, but tolerates no dissent and makes the kids sing about spanking being bad during PTA meetings. (Yes, I was there). I think PTA is one of those feel good things that has lost it’s way. Principals hate parents, teachers hate parents and it’s a big political bondoogle. I think one requirement that teachers and administrators live in the school zones they teach might bring more motivation in these events. Teachers do have a lot going on, but after teaching content, their responsibility is supporting the campus. but everybody has to be a stake holder not an obligation.

By KA

February 9, 2007 02:25 PM | Link to this

I mistakenly put By ‘RJ’ where ‘KA’ should have been in the 2:12 post, sorry!

By beth

February 9, 2007 02:28 PM | Link to this

Thanks luvs2teach. Maybe one day when I’m older and more mature I’ll return to it. Or maybe not. Too scared to try again right now. (and being able to go to the restroom when I feel like it sure is nice :>) Ya’ll teachers know how it is.

By KA

February 9, 2007 02:30 PM | Link to this

edge770, LOL WHAT in the world are you talking about? I doubt strongly that you know Olivia Hodges! What school were your kids attending when you heard the alleged anti-spanking song?

By jim d

February 9, 2007 02:35 PM | Link to this

Edge,

You must have seen another side of her.

We may have disagreed on occassion, but respected each others opinon. I really don’t know what more you could ask of someone. Of course my aquaintance with her was in opening a new school, not as she was about to exit the system.

By edge770

February 9, 2007 02:41 PM | Link to this

KA, Yes, my daughter attended Rock Springs and the anti-spanking song about 4 years ago for the 4th grade program. It was a Rudyard Kipling thing that got into being anti-corporal punishment. I was highly displeased and alerted County Staff. Leave the propoganda in Decatur and The Highlands please.

By jim d

February 9, 2007 02:43 PM | Link to this

KA,

Did you follow her to FM or stay at Dacula?

By Old Physics Teacher

February 9, 2007 02:45 PM | Link to this

Not trying to put words in Lola’s mouth, but in her defense, vouchers will work under certain conditions. IF a school system is large enough to have multiple high schools, and IF one of those schools’ faculty was totally content-oriented and rigorous, and IF the parents of children motivated to LEARN, and not motivated to get good grades, knew that, then those children would excel under vouchers in that school. Otherwise you would just have a new way to foul up education. Obviously that school and school system doesn’t exist.

After going to a NSTA meeting and listening to private-school teacher lectures on how to teach children, I quickly discovered that I have much better techniques, and cover far more material, than they do. The reason they were lecturing and I was listening was that they had better students than I did, and consequently their school was ranked far better than my school. Unfortunately, their top students knew quite a lot less than my top students did. The difference was that their lower-level students were a whole lot better than mine. They were a “successful” school. One of our state’s top athletes transfered to one of those “schools” so he wouldn’t have to take the NCLB tests. I’m sure he kept good grades in that new school, but I’m just as sure he didn’t learn much.

Vouchers are “supposed” to allow the top students to attend the “top” schools. And “allow” the lower ability students to attend a like school under the rationale that “like gravitates to like.” The problem is there are NO top schools; there are only top students. That type of school doesn’t exist, and there’s no realistic way to create large numbers of them.

The real problem is that everybody is an expert on education, because they went to school. That makes them experts.

By edge770

February 9, 2007 02:47 PM | Link to this

Some of the school systems, Fulton, Cobb, Cherokee, Gwinnett it’s all about money money money. I think the state needs to come in and regulate how much “begging” schools and school systems can do to the PTA. Do I think a video board at a high school stadium is going to boost attendance or gpa’s? Uh no. We have excessive liberal administrators that pounce upon capital successful parents for so-called needs, while functioning the dysfunctional, and then talking about the parents at the bar or restaurant after school.

By jim d

February 9, 2007 02:48 PM | Link to this

When was Olivia at Rock Springs? I know she came from Dacula to Freemans Mill but wasn’t aware she had taken Rock Springs? Are you sure?

By jim d

February 9, 2007 02:56 PM | Link to this

Edge,

“video board at a high school stadium ” unless I’m mistaken, would generally be paid for by the football boosters clubs, not the school.

By KA

February 9, 2007 02:58 PM | Link to this

jim, My second and third children left Dacula when Harbins opened in their 4th and 5th grade years. Olivia came to Dacula around 1988 when my oldest child was in 1st or 2nd grade at the original Dacula Elem site (where the Middle school stands today). Then we moved into the new school building on Fence Rd. the next year. I knew and worked with her for about nine years. I too had many disagreements and discussions with her, but never saw any communist leanings!

I was unaware that Olivia was ever at Rock Springs.

By KA

February 9, 2007 02:59 PM | Link to this

edge770, where do you live? I think you have Olivia Hodges confused with someone else.

By SET

February 9, 2007 03:11 PM | Link to this

The problem with discussions of “parental involvement” is that the participitants insist on projecting their mores and values on other people. We need to stop doing this and deal with the hand we have been dealt.

The urban public schools of the USA and loaded to the roofline with the proletariat. The reason they are there in the first place is that they have a set of values - largely rooted in time (as in present tense- just like their use of the verb “to be”) - which is not that of Mayberry USA.

It does no good to complain that the “parents” don’t support the teachers or much of anything else. They are what they are.

They wouldn’t be like this if we still lived in a world with no Social Security Programs, No welfare entitlements, No Medicare and No Free Hospitals. If the old world your children were very much your future and you were very careful with them.

Now you can abandon your kids and run off with a succession of lovers and have the government (taxpayers) to live off of in the end.

Things will not change in our lifetime - except for the worse. Whatever it is we want to do for the public school kids we have to do without regard to “parental involvement”. Nice to see it, though.

By KA

February 9, 2007 03:12 PM | Link to this

edge770, The school systems provide the basics when opening schools, and it’s through PTA and other fundraisers that schools are able to buy books and computer software, to fund school nurse positions, fund visiting artists, or an art/music teacher positions, to provide playground equipment, and field trip travel money. The fundraisers pay for the extra teacher supplies for handouts and supplies that YOUR children use. Public education is not free! Property taxes provide for the school building and its infrastructue, but it is the PTA’s PTSA’s and booster clubs that raise the money to enhance the learning materials and options, and extracurricular sports and bands. HS booster clubs raise money for their sports, which the school system does not fund! Uniforms, equipment, travel, etc. are all paid by booster club fundraisers! BTW, I have lived in Dacula for over 22 years, not the Highlands! But I do like to eat out and shop in the Highlands ; )

By Lee

February 9, 2007 03:14 PM | Link to this

I think the main point of contention for teachers here is when work in the PTA ceases to be “volunteerism” and becomes “compulsory”.

As the spouse of a long-time teacher, I have seen the PTA range from very good to pitiful. When there are about four parents working on the Spring Festival and about twenty teachers, I think you can expect some resentment.

And don’t get me started on some of the fund raising. I would rather give $10, $20, $30 or so at the start of the school year than to buy some of the overpriced wrapping paper and candy, of which, the school only gets about half.

By mommy3

February 9, 2007 03:17 PM | Link to this

OK…I love this blog….I have two kids in elementary school. We moved back to GA after being away for three years in TX. Now there is a state that really cares about there kids education. We had a job transfer back home and I am sad only because the school systems here are terrible. They are behind in curriculam by at least a year. The school we were at had one fundraiser each year. A fall carnival. It raised alot of money and was a family event. Here the principal doesn’t even show up to the PTA meetings. What does that say? And we are in one of those suppose to be great Cobb schools.

By KA

February 9, 2007 03:35 PM | Link to this

Lee, I agree, PTA is a voluntary group and I think it is wrong for the principal to require all of the teachers to attend PTA meetings. Why don’t you teachers stand up for yourselves and just say NO? Why do you take the extra duties on that leave you with paperwork after hours?

By Tired Parent

February 9, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this

The PTA is passe and should be done away with like high school. I work hard all day and must spend my nights teaching my kids because my child’s middle school teachers can’t seem to get the job done. They’re good at handing out assignments but inept at teaching. I’m 51 and I remember when teachers really taught their subjects and parents were not forced to help their children at home. And teachers wonder why we don’t show up at PTA meeting.

By Skozoze

February 9, 2007 03:56 PM | Link to this

It’s pretty sad to read both the comments of some parents and some teachers here (and refreshing to read some of them!). For anyone who hates their job, you should find a different one. I don’t want a teachers who hate their jobs teaching my children. I love my job and as far as I can tell, my childrens’ teachers love their jobs. We have an awesome PTA with lots of attendance, teachers and parents, and lots of volunteers. If you don’t believe in the rewards of volunteering, you are missing a very enriching part of life. I work full-time, volunteer for the PTA, Girl Scouts and church, and we do sports, etc. The key is that a lot of it is family time, and I always contribute in ways that I enjoy. You should try it. Writing a check may be easy, but it won’t improve your life. I have learned public speaking skills, accounting skills, diplomacy skills, and many other valuable job skills that I didn’t learn with my MBA. If we were all willing to give a little, then many would not have to give as much! Wishing all of you happiness and peace, and hoping that your schools end up as successful as ours someday…

By Joy in Teaching

February 9, 2007 04:06 PM | Link to this

KA,

The reason teachers take on the extra duties is because they are expected of us. Most of us spend our days teaching our students that if they are expected to do something, then they are to do it. Should we lead by example or lead by “do as I say and not as I do”?

The other reason is that if we don’t do the extra duties, then administrators have ways of making our lives miserable, giving us schedules that are less desirable, stacking our classes with kids who are crummy, etc. School climate is a very difficult thing to explain to a non school employee….but the teachers on this blog know EXACTLY what I am speaking of.

By Janine

February 9, 2007 04:13 PM | Link to this

Well, I just got here. THere is a lot going on here today! There is a lot to say, but I am just going to mention my experience regarding the posts of SC@12:09 and mommieof 3@3:17 I have found that parental participation in PTA or any other aspect of their child’s activities at school is NOT important. What IS important is parental attitude toward the importance of their child’s education. I actually never laid eyes on the parents of the best and brightest students that I have taught in my 32 years. Many of these students were responsible for their younger siblings after school and had lots of chores at home and often lots of not so nice things going on in their lives. However, their families had impressed upon them the importance of their education , the importance of respect, diligence, and their family’s regard for excellence and strength of character.

By JustMe

February 9, 2007 04:15 PM | Link to this

Skozoze,

I believe that any teacher posting here cares about teaching and enjoys teaching. Otherwise, why would they be on here?

The problem isn’t that they do not love teaching. The problem is all of the other ‘junk’ that really does distract from teaching. However, most of our society, administration, and even parents cannot see that. The administration wants us to do this paperwork and then attend that meeting and then miss a day to go to this conference and so on. We really do hate this and would much rather spend time for our students and improve our lessons.

If most teachers were actually given our allotted time to do our job the best way that we see fit, I would bet my bottom dollar that education would improve. But, we have to do all of this other ‘junk’ such as hall duty, bus duty, lunch duty, sponsor this, coach that, go to PTA, and on and on and on. And, after all of this ‘junk’ is piled onto us, we are beaten up because we don’t have great lessons or because our students don’t score well on the CRCT - is there any wonder?

Please! Let us do our job!!! Let us teach!

By Janine

February 9, 2007 04:27 PM | Link to this

PTA’s are very active in schools in affluent areas. In the high school in my area, the football coach is given a cruise at the end of a successful year. THose schools with active PTA’s benefit from the affluence of the parents in that community. They buy computers and fund many things that the school district does not provide. But check out those schools without that communuity affluence and you will not find PTA’s that are able to do much of anything. The parents are working , maybe more than one job, trying to put food on the table. Quite frankly, I think that the PTA may be outdated in today’s world where parents work all day and still try to have family time at home. At the very least, the organization while contributing greatly to those schools fortunate enough to have good ones, also contributes to the differing range of resources available to schools.

By KA

February 9, 2007 04:33 PM | Link to this

Joy in Teaching, I do know why teachers as individuals put up with the abuse, because of admin pressure and consequences. I am asking how do ALL OF YOU AS PROFESSIONALS CONTINUE TO PUT UP WITH II?! I think public school teachers are abused, unappreciated, overworked, and yet year after year nothing changes. What will it take to change your professional conditions?

By jim d

February 9, 2007 04:35 PM | Link to this

Just me.

Funny you should say that.

There just haappens to be a contingent of teachers that agree with you.

Visit their website.

http://www.talkgwinnett.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=88888895&Itemid=88888904/

By jim d

February 9, 2007 04:37 PM | Link to this

KA,

Perhaps thsi is part of the solution.

T.A.G. (teachers alliance of Gwinnett)

http://www.talkgwinnett.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=88888895&Itemid=88888904/

By jim d

February 9, 2007 04:49 PM | Link to this

Gwinnetts Gateway is Dead!!!

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/printedition/2007/02/09/mmetgateway0209a.html

Go here to get your shirt.

http://www.cpoga.org/img/tshirt.jpg

By jim d

February 9, 2007 04:56 PM | Link to this

GATEWAY DIES A SLOW GRUELING DEATH

After only 8 years and what? 20 million dollars?

By HS Teacher Too

February 9, 2007 05:48 PM | Link to this

Jim D — love the shirt!!

By catlady

February 9, 2007 05:51 PM | Link to this

jim, Gateway, et al, has been designed to MAKE MONEY FOR SOME FOLKS WHO HAVE TO JUSTIFY THEIR $100,000+ a year jobs “revising” and “refining” these tests year after year. (Not to mention the big money made by the publishers) Then, when the revisions cannot go any further, the test is abandoned for another. On a local level and on a state level, I have seen it year after year. We used to have the GCRT for kindergarten. It came after the Metropolitan Readiness test (when GA first began having kindergarten in the early 1970’s) I think they have gone through 2 more “miracle” tests since then for kindergarteners.

KA, why do we put up with it? Because we love the teaching. And we are very, very afraid of what will befall us if we complain too loudly. You get on the admin “outs” list, and your life becomes truly hellish. You are right, however, that as professionals we should have more guts.

By Fulton County Mom

February 9, 2007 06:02 PM | Link to this

I love the fact that most of the PTA stuff is done during school hours….even the meetings are often at 10am…Hello!!! Working Mom’s here…how are we supposed to partcipate….all the PTA seems to want is my $$$ and the soccer Mom’s can do the face to face stuff they way they want too.

I have found ways to help my kids’ teachers and to participate…work the parties during my lunch hour, read the first part of school and hit work late….It can be done, but not through PTA.

By KA

February 9, 2007 06:16 PM | Link to this

Fulton Co. Mom, our PTA invited anyone who was not available during the work day to join us for special events in the evenings or on weekends, or to help coordinate volunteers by phone. There are plenty of jobs that can be done at other hours.

By old PTA pres

February 12, 2007 09:50 AM | Link to this

If you are a teacher and enter comments into this blog (or any other communication) please check your spelling and grammar. When you are a teacher and sign your name as such please show that you have been educated. If you are teaching our children I would hope you know what a contraction is, how to use “your” and “you’re” and how to apply other grammatic rules I have seen abused in the “teacher” blog entries. An unforgivable sin for a teacher, in my opinion, is to send a note home with bad grammar and mispelled words. That also applies to the public blog. If you are sending notes full of mistakes to parents, you must be making those mistakes in the classroom. Get some staff development.

By KA

February 12, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

PTA pres, IMO a blog is a free speech forum where we get together and exchange experiences and ideas. When I am speaking with others I never interrupt them to correct their grammar, or misuse of words! In my zeal to post my ideas here sometimes I do type too fast, have typos, and interrrupted sentences when I’ve edited and not cleaned up the sentence. IT HAPPENS! I am grateful that others give me a pass, as I excuse other’s errors also. What is important to me is that I listen to what each poster says, and respect the ideas instead of nitpicking their word usage, grammar mistakes, and typos.

By Dektea

February 12, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

I am a teacher with the Dekalb County Schools. I am almost afraid to make my comments about the PTA. I see the PTA as a money making tool for the National PTA organization. Hardly any of the money the parents pay or teachers pay, go directly back to the STUDENTS of the school. The PTA blogger is correct, the money is used for nonsense fringe things that can be bought with fundraising and other momey, and is not used to FUND the students’ education DIRECTLY. There are so many student with academic needs, and afterschool academic funding by the PTA would be great, but they would never want to use the money for that, because the money needs to be sent to Washington D.C. to the PTA lobbyist. The PTA dues the parents pay is not even used to contribute to field trips for students, hence no field trips. Teachers are pressured, “strongly suggested” the PTA president put it, by the principals to be a part of the PTA, and pay the PTA dues so “we can make our 100%” (some teachers suggest that if you cause problems, by not joining, it will follow you if you try to transfer within the county). Teachers also have to stay for those PTA meetings, which tout school improvements, MANY of which have nothing to do with the PTA, nor did the PTA funds contribute directly to the changes or improvements, especially in the schools with the poorer populations.
I do not want to give my money to the PTA National Office and their lobbyist. But what angers me most is being FORCED to pay/contribute, and seeing none of the money collected go to aid the students directly. Again buying fluff items, awards, certificates is not the reason for the PTA.

By Kim R

February 12, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

What an interesting topic. So many different directions. Dektea — what you’re saying about PTA dues and funding the national PTA is just why we became a PTO at our school. We do the same exact stuff as we always have done but now we don’t charge dues, everyone is a member and all of the money we do raise goes right to our school. We still have the same challenges as so many other people listed above as far as involvement and teachers but at least our dollars are staying at our school. best move we ever made.

By PTAMom

February 12, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

My PTA has been thinking about letting our charter with National and GA PTA lapse because we find them to be 1)extremely unhelpful when we need them, 2)they are a wasteful and 3) they just create a lot more work for us at the local level without creating any kind of benefit that we can see for all that extra work. Every week I get some kind of huge packet of information, forms, guidelines for new programs and so forth that I am supposed to read, fill out, implement, and then report on by a deadline. What a big waste of money and time.

The question I have for Kim R is what happened to your tax exempt status when you became a PTO? Were you able to apply independently, or did you lose it and now have to collect tax on fundraisers and also not be able to collect tax exempt donations from local businesses and parents (many of whom I believe donate because they can write it off)? Right now,our tax exempt status is through National and GA PTA. I would have let the charter lapse already were it not for this concern.

Also, were you able to get liablility insurance and bonds for your officers without being part of PTA?

By Kim R

February 12, 2007 01:46 PM | Link to this

PTAmom we had those exact same questions. We got our own 501c3 and we have the same insurance we used to have (buy it ourselves or actuall;y through a program by PTO today. Do you know PTO today? I think it’s www.ptotoday.com, but they have a lot on these questions.

By PTAMom

February 12, 2007 02:01 PM | Link to this

Kim R. I do know PTO today—if they are the people who publish the PTO magazine. I will try that link. Thanks!

By Taxpayer

February 13, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

The PTA at our school is run by a bunch of white people who act as if there are no other races or ethnic groups represented within the student population. Nothing is done to try to include anyone who is not white, speaks Spanish, or lives outside the district, as most of our minority students do. At the last PTA officer election, there were NO people of color at the meeting, perhaps because the announcement for the meeting was sent out only via e-mail and not by newsletter or handouts. The elected board ended up looking like a Saturday morning tennis match down at the country club — white women … nothing but white women. Maybe the PTA does do some good somewhere, but at our school, it does very little (if anything) to be inclusive, nor does it fund anything particularly useful. The message is pretty clear: if you’re not Caucasion and not from right around here, we don’t want your participation or your input.

By KA

February 13, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

All righty then Taxpayer, thank you for your WHITE PEOPLE slur, NEXT!!!

By Taxpayer

February 13, 2007 06:06 PM | Link to this

If the people doing the discriminating at our school were black, Indian, Spanish, purple, orange, green, or whatever, I’d call them out, too. The truth is not a slur, and discrimination and disenfranchisement are just plain wrong. You constantly champion parental involvement, and that is what I am for, too. Minority parents at our school are being discouraged from participating in the PTA or are not being made aware of meetings and information. When nearly half of our school population is not white and there is no minority respresentation ANYWHERE on our PTA board (officers, committee chairs, etc.), then something is terribly wrong. I’ve heard the jokes about “those people” and seen the raised eyebrows when anyone at our PTA meetings dares to mention recruiting or inviting minority parents to meetings, activities, and so on. We need those minority parents to be involved, and they need the involvement, too. Most of all, the KIDS need ALL parents to work together to make our school the best it can be. Or are you part of the group that thinks “those people” just don’t care enough to make the effort? I suspect you responded to my post only because you felt a need to stick up for your race, Karen.

By KA

February 13, 2007 07:28 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer, Why are the WHITE people to blame? What is stopping any parent who feels left out from calling the school for a schedule of meetings, or calling any of the PTA officers and asking them for a schedule of meetings, then showing up at meetings, then working with other parents, then voting for a representative board? In short what is stopping anyone from particpating?

By KA

February 13, 2007 07:33 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer, P.S. your negative attitude shines brightly through your sarcastic comments. With all of your education I would hope that you knew better. I don’t care what race anyone is, and I have good friends of all races. You are the one with the chip on your shoulder!

By Taxpayer

February 14, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

People rarely go where they are actively discouraged from going or where they are not wanted or welcomed or even acknowledged. If you haven’t experienced discrimination, I’m not sure you are qualified to comment on it. But Happy Valentine’s Day anyway. At least Cupid is colorblind.

By PTAMom

February 14, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer: It has been my experience that people who want to support their children’s school will find a way to do so, even at great inconvenience. And those who do not want to, for one reason or another, will often make excuses for why they do not—and a favorite excuse is that they have not been invited.

I have walked into many PTA meetings uninvited, unknown, and not in the least doubtful about my right to be there, to be included, and to participate. I have never been turned away, nor have I have been treated coldy. But I wouldn’t have cared if I had, because I don’t do PTA work to make friends. I’m there to support my children’s education, to show them that it is my priority by giving it my time, and to be on top of what is going on at their schools.

If you are waiting for another parent to invite or include you in the work that needs to be done to support your child’s school then you are a sadly misquided person. And you should know that no one believes your excuse, probably not even your children, as it is pretty transparent.

You are making excuses for your lack of initiative and responsibility as a paren. You and you alone are responsible for stepping up to that job. If you choose not to do so, you have only yourself to blame.

If you don’t believe in PTA, that is another thing entirely. Just don’t participate. I know lots of parents who support their children’s education and have never done a minute of work for the PTA. There is work enough out there for all kinds of volunteers in the schools!

In your case however, more than likely, more responsible parents are out there picking up the slack and your child will benefit along with the children of the parents who actually do the work. Just don’t blame others for your choice to do nothing but complain. You need to take ownership of your choices and priorities instead of making excuses and looking for someone to blame. When you know, deep in your heart, that you are really just not that interested.

By Taxpayer

February 14, 2007 01:38 PM | Link to this

PTAmom, I am an active member of my school’s PTA as I have been for the past 11 years. I have done it all: fundraising to field trips, feeding teachers to planting flowers. I also do plenty of non-PTA volunteer work. I fear you have fallen victim to the perils of making unfounded assumptions. My wish is to include MORE parents to do the kind of work for our school that I do — through the PTA or wherever. The PTA at my school is clannish and exclusive. How can parents attend meetings when those who are planning the meetings don’t make the information available to EVERYONE? I hope you feel better after your vent, but you need not preach to me. Not only have I worked hard for my kid’s schools through the years, but I have provided an example of volunteerism that has been adopted by my kid, too. We have a vast, untapped resource of potential parent volunteers at our school. I refuse to apologize for wanting to include as many of those parents as possible. What I’ve seen from my own experience is that when many of those parents are MADE AWARE of needs or opportunities, they step up. I’d like to give more minority parents at our school the information they need to do just that. What’s wrong with that?

By PTAMom

February 14, 2007 03:08 PM | Link to this

Well, then I guess I fail to understand your whine. If you are an active memeber, why don’t you take care of that problem and be the one to reach out to those parents? If you see a job that needs to be done, you should do it instead of complaining that its not being done by someone else.

Why is that welcoming minority parents into the PTA is someone else’s responsibility? You sound like the classic parent complainer to me. I meet people like you all the time who complain, complain, complain, but when asked to do something constructive to solve the problem, suddenly disappear.

The truth is, you enjoy complaining and you enjoy feeling discriminated against. You prefer the idea of the discriminatory, exclusive PTA to the ideal of the inclusive one. Martyrdom is your familiar. And most of all, the inclusive PTA would require you to actually do some work.

Honestly, if its is true that you have done all the PTA work you now claim, then what was the point of your earlier post where you were whining that you were excluded by the white PTA women and that you were not welcome? Which is it? Were you lying then or are you lying now? Oh, please… .

By KA

February 15, 2007 05:27 PM | Link to this

PTAMom, Amen!

By 2kidsincollege

February 20, 2007 08:37 PM | Link to this

Can I say double Amen?! My practice was to say to complaining people “Oh I’m so glad that someone is concerned about that problem, We’ve been needing someone to step forward and take on that (committee, problem, issue, etc.) Maybe 1 in 100 would actually help.

And the diversity issue, my school tried for 5 years to beg minority parents to come on board and be committee chair people, officers, president, everything! There was every excuse in the book! Even though the majority has now turned into the minority, the minority is still having to do most of the work in the PTA as there are still excuses or people who say they will do the job and do not follow through.

And whoever said that PTA was a popularity contest! HA It’s obvious you have never been a Pres. or serious officer. It’s a ridiculous amount of work for no money. If you are not serious about your own kids and advocating for others, then don’t even accept the position, you probably won’t finish the job.