Get Schooled

By jim d

February 1, 2007 08:13 AM | Link to this

Ok, so now I’m confused.

Emory is private which means HOPE is minimalized.

But Tech is Public and students may use HOPE to pay the bulk of the expenses provided they pull the grades.

So does this mean that Tech will be using private funding to keep sub par students enrolled? Wouldn’t that be filling seats that could better be used by students that wanted to learn?

By catlady

February 1, 2007 08:14 AM | Link to this

It sounds great for PR, and it is great, but it only helps 400 students out of 15000+/- undergrads? So that is what—3% of the students (too early for estimation for me)? The story is that only 3% of the students would qualify, so 97% of the students are from middle class or higher homes. THAT is the story here. One of our 2 “best” universities serves 15000 students, but only 3% come from less-advantaged homes eligible for the assistance.

And UGA? Will they do the same? I don’t think so, but it won’t matter. Their percentage of less-advantaged students is probably not much higher.

No ticker-tape parade from my view.

By catlady

February 1, 2007 08:15 AM | Link to this

Oh, and BTW, it is not a cost cutting measure. It merely transfers the pain to private donors, etc. A cost cutting measure would help all students.

By JustMe

February 1, 2007 08:22 AM | Link to this

jimd and catlady…

A couple of clarifying points. First, GA Tech undergrad enrollment is more like 10,000 and not the 15,000 mentioned. Second, the Tech idea is for private money to be used for the program - this means donations and not tax dollars. While yes, hope does help, hope does not pay for everything. Plus, a student could have their average drop below the required minimum they could still be a Tech student “in good standing” and lose hope, yet they could then still qualify for these private funds.

Makes sense to me. An “average” student at Tech should not be saddled with ridiculous debt just because they come from a poor family.

This blog was to be: will UGA follow suit. My guess is no. UGA marches to a beat of a different drummer (see lack of diversity in student body).

By jim d

February 1, 2007 08:32 AM | Link to this

Just me,

My point was that an average student might be filling a seat paid for by private donors when it would be better filled with higher calibre student on a Hope scholarship. Income doesn’t even enter the picture.

I’m talking about schools that fill up every year with excellent students that truly deserve to be there.

So why keep a student that’s not pulling the grades? Or are grades tied to the private funding in some way like Hope funds?

By jim d

February 1, 2007 08:34 AM | Link to this

SHOOT I GET IT!

This might be used as an allowance for rooms or food—maybe even to feed a drug or alchol habit. Oh, and it would allow for paying ball players too!

By jim d

February 1, 2007 08:35 AM | Link to this

Just me,

UGA will have to follow if they want the football players.

By catlady

February 1, 2007 08:40 AM | Link to this

I’m not real big on ANY student being saddled with rediculous debt, and I understand what you are saying about the requirements for HOPE. However, at 10,000 undergrads that puts Tech’s admit of lower income students at a whopping 4%—still not something they should be flashing around, IMHO. I question Tech’s sincerity in helping students vs. looking good.I questioned Emory’s in an earlier blog.

And you are right about UGA, but their numbers of less than $30,000 homes is also less than stellar. Theirs might be more understandable since they do not pull nationally to the degree that Tech does. Which asks another question: what about those Techies not eligible for HOPE because they are from out of state or out of country who come from lower income families? Do they get the deal, too? Since it is from “private funds” it isn’t any of my biz, just wondering.

So what percentage of Georgia families of college-going kids has less than $30,000 income? 4%?

Should we worry about the disparity? Or just chalk it up to: those folks don’t prepare their kids, don’t provide for them, etc? It just seems, like so many other policies, that we replicate and reward folks who are “successful” like ourselves. I am just wondering how to get more lower SES kids ready to go into Tech and other generally-well-thought-of colleges. Lots of our policies seem to work against it.

By KA

February 1, 2007 08:43 AM | Link to this

I think this is a great idea. Georgia Tech has been a leader in its active recruitment of women and minorities. This is just one more measure to enhance their recruitment and retention of studnets. My oldest daughter graduated from Tech with high honors and kept her HOPE. My second daughter, a senior at Tech has also kept hers. But MANY of their friends lost their HOPE because of the rigor of classes, especialy first year calculus and physics classes where professors are very tough, and many don’t even curve the grades in their classes. So if half fail or get D’s then just one more C or D can sink the GPA below the 3.0 by the end of the year. These are not subpar students, but smart kids challenged to work harder than they ever had to work in HS. It is not easy to keep the HOPE at Tech, so I think this aid to poor students makes sense.

By catlady

February 1, 2007 08:48 AM | Link to this

jim d—Does Tech even GET good football players? For that matter, does UGA? LOL

By KA

February 1, 2007 08:52 AM | Link to this

jim, The $15K amt quoted includes the HALF that HOPE covers; tuition, fees and a small book stipend of $150. BUT the other half is room and board, which is NOT covered by HOPE! I have had a child at Tech since 2000, so trust me, I know how much it costs. Of course if students choose a major where they can co-op then they can pay for their education from their earnings at the co-op jobs. Tech is also a leader in providing a great co-op program.

By Ernest

February 1, 2007 08:58 AM | Link to this

I like the idea and think it is good PR for Tech. Several Ivy League schools already have a program like this in place. I wouldn’t be surprised if the threshhold is raised to perhaps 40-50K though.

I’m not sure I understand the early concerns, especially given this would be PRIVATE dollars. If contributors don’t what their dollars to go to this, the program will end as fast as it began. I’m sure Tech will build in ‘rules’ so students are motivated to keep this assistance.

By dan T

February 1, 2007 08:58 AM | Link to this

Cat No UGA doesn’t get the good players. They are all up north at the Shoe. Jim, just holding out here at the Creek. Not a lot of bodies here today. They all must have been watching a different school closing list than I was this morning.

By KA

February 1, 2007 09:11 AM | Link to this

catlady, Your portrayal of Tech is way off the mark. Tech attracts and actively recruits a particular kind of student, mainly the nerdy, geeky science, math and engineer smarties. Tech is a leader in the nation in the number of BLACK ENGINEER grads. They actively recruit the best and the brightest that ANY HS has to offer. There are a variety of info programs they offer to HS kids to come and experience Tech for a day, a weekend, or for a month long summer program. Tech has 3-2 programs for studnets to bridge from their college to finish their education at Tech. Tech has many scholarship opportunities for its students, both need and merit based. This is just one more offering. It appears that you think the Institute is elitist. It is eliitist in that it admits the best students, and holds their feet to the fire to perform. Tech also wants to retain its students, and if money is a problem, they will help the student find a way to get help. Apart from some athletes who don’t perform at a high level, let me assure you that many Tech athletes do. My daughter ran for Tech and many of her teammates are engineering majors, and doing very well. catlady, just curious, where did you get your degree?

By catlady

February 1, 2007 09:17 AM | Link to this

Will other in-state schools follow suit? Depends on their private money base (endowment?) and the mix of kids at their school. A Fort Valley State or Dekalb College might not ever be able to, because a much higher percentage of their students may be from poorer homes. Then, there could be the pressure NOT to have needs-blind admission, but to decide admission partly on whether a student can pay the freight or not. This already happens at a lot of private schools. They have to protect the endowment, so they admit students with less stellar scores who fill out the pre-admit estimation of financial aid and don’t need much, vs. the student with higher grades and SAT who will need more gift aid. Brilliant scholars, no matte what family income, will be offered admission.

Colleges that are more in demand could, in theory, set their admission requirements in such a way that is screens out most of the lower class students. I am not saying that they do, because they can always claim that they want the most prepared students, who just HAPPEN to 96% be from middle and upper class homes.

Anyone from Institutional Research at UGA who could tell us the percentage of students from lower quartile SES homes? Did we ever get more info on Emory’s program, such as what percentage of students would be affected?

I’d like to see more FORGIVENESS of debt programs for those who actually graduate and work. Seems like using grants for loans at Tech for a student that only completes 3 years then drops out debt-free would not be as cost effective as forgiving loans (I know we are talking about federal money, so there would have to be some thought given to how to make it work) for those who actually COMPLETE their degree.

By KA

February 1, 2007 09:20 AM | Link to this

I suspect that this program would help the out of state students. If y’all only knew how much money is available to college students! They need to look for it and ask for help from their financial aid offices, or from the department heads in their majors, and this applies to any college or university.

By jim d

February 1, 2007 09:22 AM | Link to this

Good players or not. I see this as a method of keeping some of the athletes that may have lost HOPE but still pulled a passing grade, in school. Is that what this is really all about?

Mr. T. Enjoy the day!

By catlady

February 1, 2007 09:33 AM | Link to this

KA, I am sorry. I did not mean to seem down on Tech. You are right, they do an admirable job of recruitment. (They didn’t recruit my daughter, which I found surprising) I personally am thrilled with their work with women students—trying to talk my now-graduating daughter (majors in physics, astronomy, and math) into thinking about Tech for grad school instead of going out west. Retention, as you have pointed out, can be a problem in such an academically competitive environment. I am not familiar with their retention numbers. Tech truly gets a lot of the best this state (and others) has to offer. My dad graduated from Duke in engineering so I have been bred with a little “looking askance” at Tech, and I guess it shows in my tone. It is not done with any real sense of disparaging, however.

I think it is worrisome for ANY state-leading institutions to have such a few lower-SES students. The fault of the institution? Maybe or maybe not. There is a lot of pressure to bring in those with the highest SATs, even if someone with 100 points lower could still do the work. Tech aspires to be a Duke, Cal Tech, or an MIT, I think, and wants to go stride for stride with them on SATs. Do Tech’s admission policies, including those on out of state/country students, serve this state and the taxpayers who foot many of the bills? (Do UGA’s?)

I have 4 degrees. The PhD is from UGA, so I am allowed to laugh at them, too.

By jim d

February 1, 2007 09:33 AM | Link to this

OK, OK,

Let’s assume you are a big Tech fan that contributes 4-5 figures to the athletic programs every year, have bopx seats and you decide that a particular student staying in school would benefit the program.

Now, if you were able to have a chat with the committee that decides who is going to get the money to stay in school (of course the odds are you won’t know anyone—right?) and there are 2 choices.

a) an athelte with a 2.0 gpa that can’t spell his name

or

b) a kid with a 2.9 gpa that is taking a full load of academics but has lost HOPE and will have to drop out because his parents can’t afford the tuition and he can’t hold his grades and work too.

Exactly which one would you opt for?

By catlady

February 1, 2007 09:41 AM | Link to this

jim d, when I was a UGA, it was hard to get into classes. The food chain for registration went like this: athletes, honor students, grad students, seniors, juniors, etc. Athletes got first pick of classes and teachers. We were told it was because of their practice schedules (although I believe they registered first no matter what season it was).

By KA

February 1, 2007 09:51 AM | Link to this

catlady, thanks, yes, you got my back up a little! But now that I know where you are coming from I can understand, and forgive… My son is a senior at UGA in business/economics, so I support the jackets and the dawgs. Regarding the lower SES numbers, perhaps that is more the fault of the high schools who don’t produce tTech ready students, because they don’t nurture their bright students with good counselors and higher level AP classes, and then there are parents who don’t have high expectations for their students who could perform at a high level, if only…

Tech would be a fine choice for your daughter for grad school. Many grad students are fully funded depending on the major, because of industry and government support that fund their research. Tech also has an awesome career placement office and network that is lifelong support.

By Ernest

February 1, 2007 09:55 AM | Link to this

JimD:

In fairness, schools in nearby states claim our schools have an ‘unfair’ advantage because the Hope scholarship is available for atheletes. In your scenario above, you look look at their academic history up to the point they lost the Hope and make a determination on that. I would probably say ‘B’, with the thought that person may have a greater likelihood of graduating and being appreciative thus would contribute back to the school as an alumnus. That means taking a long term view of things.

By jim d

February 1, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

LOL, Sure you would Ernest.

But you just paid $10,000 for a losing football team!

By Ernest

February 1, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

Maybe so JimD, but maybe having a losing football team one year also resulted in over 50K of alumni contribuitions and an untold amount in in-kind contributions over the next 30-40 years. Like I said, I’m looking at the long term benefits… :)

By Jeff

February 1, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

1) There are a LOT of people out there that earn (as a family) more than 30K but are just as poor. (A family of 5 on 50K, for example.) Why isn’t this taken into consideration?

2) I’m a Bulldog through and through. The ONLY time you will see me saying ANYTHING good about the North Avenue Trade School is if they are playing Florida or Auburn, and even then my SEC loyalties would more than likely win out.

3) HOWEVER, I will give Tech this: if you’re a poor white male (even though you’re the PERFECT candidate in every other aspect), you don’t stand a CHANCE at getting in!

BTW Y’all: It looks like I am in fact about to go into computing…. in Phoenix!

By jim d

February 1, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

Ernest,

Long term benefits?

How about a pro-running back that makes it big time but dropped out of school because you failed to help him out? :-)

Point and case about how someone making that kind of money spends it.

Peyton manning has donated over a million already to UT. Lomg term or big bucks and a winning team? you make the call,

By jim d

February 1, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

Be sure to take your golf clubs—you’ll love it.

By Jeff

February 1, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

jim:

The only golf I play is on my XBOX!

I did see on Google Earth though that there are two golf courses IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CITY literally about 2 blocks away from the corporate office. (Of course, out there a block is a square mile!)

By catlady

February 1, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Com’mon now, Jeff, 2 of my daughter’s male high school friends got into and are about to graduate from Tech. I am glad they actively recruit women and minorities so that the social replication we see might be disrupted a little. Now, recruitment and admission are not the same thing. Tech (and many other schools including UGa) wants the prestige of the highest average SATs possible, no matter who makes them. So while they may spend considerable effort and money recruiting and retaining women and minorities, they cannot do anything for them if they don’t apply and get accepted. I am not aware of “differential admissions standards” at Tech, but I know they have existed other places in the past.

I once attended a well-known university in a state to our south that has a Native American as its mascot. (I don’t want to give its name) There, I had an internship in the admissions office. My job was to generate form letters turning down white students with 1150 SATs and sending out acceptance letters to minority students with 900 SATs. Any minority student applying who did not meet the requirements had their application go before a special committee whose job it was to look for intangibles that might indicate that the student should be admitted. Intangibles were things like first generation college student, etc. This was in the late 1980s. I think more recent court decisions have made it less likely that RACE be a factor, but I think colleges can screen for intangibles if they like, as long as they do it fairly. It is just with the SAT “arms race” as it is, many higher level institutions take the highest grades and SATs, and focus their efforts on recruitment of the best and brightest who might not have considered their institution.

God speed in Phoexix, Jeff! Phoenix, Alabama or Phoenix, Arizona?

By catlady

February 1, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

Or does the AL town spell it Fenix? I get confused. (I can laugh at Alabama also because I grew up there, just not in Phoenix, Phenix, Fenix, oh, heck, whatever!)

By jim d

February 1, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

I highly recomend investing in a set of clubs. I find being on the course eliminates stress. You might want to give it a shot.

By jim d

February 1, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

Cat,

Computers in Alabama? when’d that happen? :-)

By catlady

February 1, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

jim, Commodore 64s in Alabama. Looking to move up to commodore 128s. (chuckle)

And Jeff, using the golf clubs to give it a shot is good. If you find regular golf not challenging enough, you can always try to aim at your fellow players :)

By catlady

February 1, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

When I lived in Alabama we had wood-burning computers :))

By catlady

February 1, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Jeff must mean Phoenix AZ. In Alabama we had another name for golf courses—pastures! And you would not believe what kind of special conditions you could find there! You think sand traps are bad!

Okay, okay, I have wandered “too far afield.” My blood sugar must be low.

By KA

February 1, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

catlady, It is my understanding from going through the college application process with 3 kids that GT is like UGA in that there is a formula they use that creates an index number for each student based on their HS, GPA, curriculum (college prep, AP or IB), and SAT/ACT. They also consider leadership, community activities, athletic and club participation. Athey are seeking well balanced students that have a better chance for success in college. I know for a fact that a lower SAT doesn’t preclude an invitation to Tech, if other factors contribute to give that student a higher index number. These two schools also have quotas that include schools with lower SES’s so that the Parkview and Walton HS students don’t get all of the spots.

By Jeff

February 1, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

cat:

1700 miles away, not 170! (Arizona!)

By KA

February 1, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

catlady, I am an FSU alum ‘74. And do you know that the Seminoles gave their approval to FSU to use their name?

By OldSchool

February 1, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

I thought Pell Grants helped lower income students with their college expenses.

By catlady

February 1, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

KA, you are correct about the admissions prediction formula. I was involved in a minor way in that earlier in my career. It was part of Chancellor Portch’s drive to channel students into the “correct” level school.

There was also a formula to predict, given incoming student preparedness, how many students would persist until degree completion. For example, UGa’s standard of acceptable retention was higher than Georgia College and State University’s, because the students were considered better prepared for college-level work. I have not seen anything on that in a long time, but I am out of the loop in that area now.

While colleges may not give “extra points’ for race, they can look at extracurricular activities, for example, as you noted. Extracurriculars may not have much of a place in the life of a student who feels they have to work after school to help support the family, so these students would bear a disadvantage that a higher SES kid might not. (Although, with so many kids working to pay their car insurance, etc, that might be a moot point for lots of kids anyway.)

By catlady

February 1, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

KA, you and I are the same age! And with our mutual history in education, it is no wonder that we are such discerning bloggers! My mom and her 4 sisters all were grads of FlaStaCoWo!

By KA

February 1, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

catlady, there was a section on my kids’ college applications to show work (for pay) experience also.

By KA

February 1, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

here’s a link to UGA’s application:

http://www.admissions.uga.edu/pdf/FY07Appi.pdf

here’s a link to GT’s application:

http://www.admiss.gatech.edu/images/pdf/GTapp07.pdf

By catlady

February 1, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

Old School: Pell gives a MAX of 4000$ per year based on parental income. A lst year student can get about $2600 in sub. loans. Hope (if eligible) gives tuition and a dab for books (~2000$?—going by memory). So there can still be a considerable gap between cost of attendance and financial aid. If there is, a student can get unsub stafford for another—what? $2000 or so (I don’t remember exactly) So many less affluent kids go to 2 year colleges. Georgia now has articulation between public colleges within the state (with some specific rules) but overall students who do 2 years at a 2 year college and then transfer are less likely to ever complete a degree than those who go to 4 year colleges from the start. Some of this is the nature of the student, some is due to access issues, and some is due to lower income students being more unwilling to take out loans they do not have much faith in being able to repay. It is one thing to be $20,000 in debt if you come from a family making $60,000 a year living in a $300,000 house and having multiple cars. You can see that over time you will repay the money. But, f you live in an apartment and your family scrapes by on $30,000 a year, struggles to pay their bills, you may not be able to envision ever paying off a big student loan. So you are unwilling to take a risk that seems, to some of us, to be a no-brainer long term.

By JustMe

February 1, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

jimd -

Wow. You are really trying to assume the absolute worst about this program. I don’t understand why, however.

A kid from a poor family (making less than $30,000 per year) should not be saddled with debt, or penalized, just because they are from a poor family. That is the whole point.

A kid from a better-off family should be able to help out the kid more, thus saddling them with less debt (and possibly no debt).

The HOPE pays for a portion of the cost for any student (rich or poor) that maintains a minimum GPA. IMHO, the HOPE should not have any bearing on this program. The program is to help the poor kid, period. If the poor kid already has HOPE, then great, the program will only have to contribute the remaining. If the poor kid doesn’t have hope, but is still in good standing, then fine - the program will have to contribute more. What’s the big deal?

As for the tangent issue on athletes: why does this play into it at all? Most (not all) already have an athletic scholarship that include free meals, free boarding, etc. The few remaining athletes that do not, IMHO, would be treated the same as any other poor kid (if they are poor).

I think it is a great idea, and I hope that the private donors can assist all of the “poor” students at Tech.

Again, the question is….. will UGA follow suit? Will UGA create a private donation fund that helps out the students from poor families. IMHO, they will not. Let’s face it - UGA donations are all about football, period.

By KA

February 1, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

catlady, You know I am NOT a teacher, right? I thought about going for a teacher cert. but didn’t like how teachers were (mis)treated in schools. I have a B.A. in Biology from FSU, minored in Chemistry, Art and Religion; studied Ichthyology in graduate school at West Florida, then got a J.D. from GA. State in ‘96. I am a jack of all trades and master of none… I lived in Jennie Murphree freshman year, and Landis my sophomore year. Good times! No Bobby Bowden in those days, but great basketball. I was a GDI, not greek, but freak : )

By catlady

February 1, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

KA, thanks for the application links. I wonder how many parts (single parent household, etc.) of them are actually seriously considered, except as “tie breakers”. What a long application! But an eye-opener for me! My children have all attended private colleges.

By KA

February 1, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

catlady, You know I am NOT a teacher, right? I thought about going for a teacher cert. but didn’t like how teachers were (mis)treated in schools. I have a B.A. in Biology from FSU, minored in Chemistry, Art and Religion; studied Ichthyology in graduate school at W. Florida, then a J.D. from GA. State in ‘96. I am a jack of all trades and master of none… At FSU I lived in Jennie Murphree freshman year, and Landis my sophomore year. Good times! It was before Bobby Bowden and football stunk, but we had great basketball. I was a GDI, not greek, but freak : )

By catlady

February 1, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

Justme—you might find this interesting. Originally, a kid who got Pell could not get HOPE. There was a “negative income cap”. Thankfully, that was finally fixed.

On athletes, actually, very few of them get the full ride you are describing if you look at all sports at all schools. Not that I don’t think you have a valid point. I wish I could have had that kind of a deal. My scholarly abilities brought money and some small prestige to the University, but I did not get housing (I did get tuition due to GRE/grades). And I was very thankful for that, as a single parent with 3 children trying to get the danged degrees!

By jim d

February 1, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

I’m not assuming a thing Just me,

I really don’t have a dawg (pun intended) in this race.I’m merely pointing out a human nature flaw that might affect kids that are more deserving of assistance.

Personally, I’m quite happy that private money is out there waiting to help. But I do question if it will actually trickle down to the kids that are deserving of that help.

By KA

February 1, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

catlady, yes the public college applications are brutal. And if kids wait until their junior or (gasp!) senior year before they look at it they may find that they are missing big chunks of experience that would have helped them get accepted. I think HS counselors should give a copy of the college applications to incoming freshmen or their parents to give them a heads up about what they should be doing during their HS years.

By jim d

February 1, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

Care to know who is getting in where?

Here’s a great site.

https://www.collegedata.com/cs/index.jhtml

By KA

February 1, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

Many college athletes are ‘preferred walk-ons’ that get no athletic scholarship money at all.

By Lisa B.

February 1, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

I once lived in Arizona and LOVED Phoenix!!!!

By Jeff

February 1, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

Lisa:

What area of town should I look at hardest?

By the real EW

February 1, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Oh Jim, I guess to get diversity we need football players??? Yicks… Forget those diverse students who excel academically. Why is it when most think of diversity and trying to make a diverse campus - they think of athletes?

By catlady

February 1, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

KA, what you are describing sounds like the cultural capital that middle and upper class parents exchange as a matter of course. They sit around, waiting for ballet lessons to be over, or watching the kid’s basketball game, and compare notes about what steps their older child is taking to get into school. You are right. What HOPE has done with middle schoolers (getting the word out that money is available) we could do a better job of doing about admission criteria. However, guidance counselors are up to their eyeballs in everything else. I lobbied several school systems to be their “college attendance facilitator” where I would do parent and student education on some of these very subjects. I was laughed at—it was pointed out that the state would not pay for such a thing, so it was out. But now, we have “graduation coaches”. Maybe I was 15 years too soon!

By KA

February 1, 2007 01:16 PM | Link to this

catlady, yes ‘cultural capital’ is a great description. My kids are all in college now, but nobody at their HS gave us any of the information that we have exchanged here today. I talked with freinds at soccer and cc practices, and researched for it myself, but then that is my nature. At Christmas we attended a party at some friends’ house and they had their neighbors there, too. One lady was proudly proclaiming that her daughter had been recruited by a lot of schools and accepted to GT which was her first choice. I said great, has she sent in her deposit? Well no, she was waiting to get scholarship $$… When I told her that she would prabably have to go looking for the scholarships, and BTW the dorm rooms were assigned on a first come basis, her face fell. I would love to counsel kids about college preparations, applications, scholarships and surviving at college. I’ve seen a little bit of everything with my three at school. Maybe I should write a book….

By Lisa B.

February 1, 2007 03:21 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

I left Arizona many years ago, but I am certain that Scottsdale is upscale. Mesa has a large Morman community, and typically has had a lower crime rate. Scottsdale and Mesa are both suburbs of Phoenix.

Phoenix has more than doubled in size since I left, so I am unsure of the current demographics. The nicer areas today probably didn’t exist when I was there.

By catlady

February 1, 2007 03:32 PM | Link to this

KA, my mom lived in Jennie and Landis. Went necking at Prince Murat’s grave. Sat outside Landis on one of the stone benches with my dad (a blind date in the service stationed at Camp Gordon Johnson) after their first date and told him he was boring and she never wanted to go out with him again. He agreed that he was bored, too, and he wouldn’t ask her out again. She saw him later on with a tri delt at the Sweet Shop, he was drunk and she was furious. Somehow they wrote each other during the War. After he got out of POW camp (Battle of the Bulge) they were married for 52 happy years. She said when they could cut the ivy at Landis, the student center would serve greens for dinner and they were convinced it was the ivy. Trip down Memory Lane….

By KA

February 1, 2007 04:47 PM | Link to this

catlady, how sweet! The Sweet Shop was kinda skanky when I was there. I was there during the streaking craze and chanted as they ran from bush to bush on Landis Green evading the campus cops! We frequented the Subway to drink beer and play Pong, the first video game I think. We made late night runs to Krispy Kreme to make money selling donuts in the dorms. My roommates and I were cocktail waitresses then bartenders in the Viking Lounge at the top of the round Holiday Inn. For good old cracker fun we would go see wrestling matches and drink at the kicker bars on the road out of town to Crawfordville.

By Lisa B.

February 1, 2007 06:00 PM | Link to this

I REALLY appreciate all the information provided here today about college. My one and only is a 7th grade honor student, and we’re definitely planning for college.