Get Schooled

By Jeff

January 24, 2007 08:04 AM | Link to this

NCLB MUST be DESTROYED. As it exists, it is doing FAR more damage than good.

By JustMe

January 24, 2007 08:12 AM | Link to this

Bush and the republicans must go. They have ruined this Country and our reputation worldwide enough. When will the voters learn?

I pine for the Clinton years. At least Clinton’s lie didn’t kill anyone! And, we had a booming economy to boot!!!!

By KA

January 24, 2007 08:19 AM | Link to this

I think the federal government should get their noses out of education. Leave it to the States.

By Jeff

January 24, 2007 08:20 AM | Link to this

JustMe:

We had a booming economy due to the Republicans before Clinton. We have the problems we now have BECAUSE of Clinton.

Offer SOLUTIONS, not condemnation. In the end, as John Kerry found out all too well, running on a platform of “I’m not a Republican” while offering no ideals of your own only leads to resounding defeat.

By KA

January 24, 2007 08:39 AM | Link to this

Thank you Jeff! Those who think that Republicans have ruined the country need to study U.S. political history since WWII. The Democrats are responsible for the escalated conflict that became the VietNam War. The Democratic controlled Congresses are the ones who created the welfare enslavement system, and who increased the scope and power of the federal government over the States and individuals in ALL areas of our lives. The Democrats grew the budget and deficit with their entitlement programs. The Democrats prefer welfare handouts instead of growing businesses to put the underclsss to work. And lately all the Democrats can do is call the President and Republicans vile names. Shut up, grow up and study your history. The Democrats are a huge part of the problems we confront today. Blaming someone else is always easier than proposing positive plans and solutions.

By IOC

January 24, 2007 09:12 AM | Link to this

BUSH really puts the lame in lame duck.

By JustMe

January 24, 2007 09:15 AM | Link to this

Jeff and KA -

OMG!!! I guess you are right!! It is the democrats that are in bed with big business and continues to give them huge tax cuts. It is the democrats that took us to war without any cause (remember the “but they have weapons of mass destruction” excuse?). The large increases in gas prices over the past couple of years even when the price per barrel of oil was relatively low was also caused by democrats. The refusal of cutting CO2 emissions is surely the democrats fault - so our environment is going to #$%%. It is all the democrats fault for our LARGER THAN EVER national debt (wasn’t it going down DURING the Clinton years?).

How could I be so blind?

By JustMe

January 24, 2007 09:16 AM | Link to this

Oh yeah, I forgot. To be on topic, can we also thank the democrats for NCLB????

By just a teacher

January 24, 2007 09:17 AM | Link to this

Wow. Quite a bit of vitriol for this early in the day. As Bridget’s post implies (rather nicely, I think), education is a lovely issue for politicians on both sides of the aisle to talk about. But no one really has the vision or the resources to do anything. Instead we get addled a beast like NCLB which has neither but provides politicians (and blog-readers) an opportunity to lambast teachers and schools.

By Jeff

January 24, 2007 09:24 AM | Link to this

JustMe:

Spare the political vitriol for ML’s blog. We’ve done a decently good job of keeping it off here, and I’d like to keep it that way. If you want to continue to ignore reality, feel free. However, please spare us and come back when you have something substantive to contribute.

I’m not even going to engage in your political debate here. Switch over to someplace (again, such as Mr. Wooten or ML) that they do that all day. I’m sure you’ll find a home there.

By KA

January 24, 2007 09:30 AM | Link to this

JustMe, you totally missed my point. I am not excusing Republicans for any of their failings, and specifically the actions of the preceding Republican controlled Congress in their free spending frenzy ala Democratic mode. I am longing for some intelligent, grown up dialogue and cooperation among our elected officials, no matter what the political party. I AM SICK OF THE BASHING, IT IS COMPLETELY NON PRODUCTIVE! So, get off your rant. I am not in favor of NCLB; I have said it before, and I said today that I don’t think the federal government should be controlling education. I want to see the States take it back. Why can’t we discuss the issues instead of blaming everyone else and calling people juvenile names?

By JustMe

January 24, 2007 09:35 AM | Link to this

Jeff -

I would love to ignore reality. However, the reality is that we are now living in a world and society created by a republican controled house, senate, and executive branch that was in control for 6 years. This includes NCLB which is the topic of this blog.

Unfortunately, as a teacher, I cannot ignore NCLB. Although that is partly not true, since the students I teach regularly pass all of their stupid standardized tests. I am still subjected to interferance inside of my classroom that diverts attention from true lessons and true learning, thanks to NCLB and the republicans.

By JustMe

January 24, 2007 09:39 AM | Link to this

KA - I am not calling anyone names. However, when the State of GA voters continue to elect republicans that are pushing their NCLB agenda on us, if affects us all.

My hope is that the democrats now in congress will either slow down, change, or kill NCLB.

By JustMe

January 24, 2007 09:40 AM | Link to this

KA -

I think that they have identified the 20% of the national population that are still approving Bush….. they all live in GA!!! Just kidding!

By Jeff

January 24, 2007 09:46 AM | Link to this

OK Y’all, I gotta go clean my car and then go grab all my gear from Randolph. Back after while!

By holdingAJCaccountable

January 24, 2007 09:50 AM | Link to this

I’m just waiting for Bush to show up at a school, wearing a cap and gown with a big “Mission Accomplished” banner.

By KA

January 24, 2007 09:51 AM | Link to this

JustMe, have you contacted, called, or written to YOUR GA. Reps to relay your thoughts on NCLB? Is it true that we could avoid the NCLB restrictions if we created Charter Schools throughout the State? Since you are a teacher, didn’t the PC control of the classroom begin way before NCLB? As I remember it, the overt PC control began when my kids were in elementary school in the late eighties and early nineties. BOTH political parties have been in control of growing the influence and control of the federal government. The problem is not a particular party, but the POWER that the Congress and federal government have over our lives, all parts of our lives. IMO, our nationally elected officials are NOT acting in our best interest, they are acting to get control of more of our money so that they can maintain their control over us.

By jim d

January 24, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

KA,

Unless I’m mistaken there really was no fixed beginning for the U.S. war in Vietnam. The United States entered that war incrementally, in a series of steps between 1950 and 1965. In May 1950, President Harry S. Truman (a dem) authorized a modest program of economic and military aid to the French, who were fighting to retain control of their Indochina colony, including Laos and Cambodia as well as Vietnam. When the Vietnamese Nationalist (and Communist-led) Vietminh army defeated French forces at Dienbienphu in 1954, the French were compelled to accede to the creation of a Communist Vietnam north of the 17th parallel while leaving a non-Communist entity south of that line. The United States refused to accept the arrangement. The administration of President Dwight D. Eisenhower (a rep) undertook instead to build a nation from the spurious political entity that was South Vietnam by fabricating a government there, taking over control from the French, dispatching military advisers to train a South Vietnamese army, and unleashing the CIA to conduct psychological warfare against the North.

Let us not forget that both parties are involved here in making these policies, and why they are is quite simply that we spend more money on its military than the next 12 nations combined. In the 1990’s, nearly half of all arms exported to developing countries came from the US. Shutting down our war machine would adversely affect our GDP and that would be political suicide on either side of the isle.

By TinaTeach

January 24, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

Alright here we go. NCLB is a bad piece of legislation that it doesn’t matter what party was behind it. Both parties have meddled in education long enough. I think all NCLB has done is it has made us focuse more on testing than anything else. Let’s chuck the whole thing out the window and leave educating to the educators, not the political parties.

By just a teacher

January 24, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Charter schools still have to play by the NCLB rules in most cases. They have a little more leeway with state rules. I haven’t done a lot of research into the Lt. gov’s plan, but my instinct is that “charter” is just another label that sounds like a solution yet doesn’t solve anything.

By Janine

January 24, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Bridget RE: “The president wants more help for struggling students, more emphasis on math and science,” -In my experience, these students already get the majority of the attention and almost all of the funding, so to answer your question, I think Bush is just barking. He must know there is a looming “backlash”on the move. Parents and teachers feel that these students are getting much more than their share.

By Janine

January 24, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

And RE: ” these changes first have to get through a Democratically controlled Congress where key lawmakers already are demanding more money to implement the law’s requirements “. Another Bark…WHere is more money coming from? IMO education is on the bottom rung of Bush’s ladder of concern.

By Al

January 24, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Why don’t you discuss the best way to work within the guidlines of NCLB? I’m not a teacher, nor do I have kids; I am just an interested third party. It seems that the conversations that go on here are remarkably close to those that I heard when I was in school.

kid A: homework is stupid!! Kid B: yeah, they should get rid of it, it’s a waste of time. kid A: totally, I don’t even learn anything that way, it doesn’t work, and the teacher is just a jerk who doesn’t know what he’s doing anyway. Kid B: and those tests!! why can’t they just trust me when I say I learned something? Jeez

For those who didn’t follow: Homework = NCLB, teacher = Bush

By JustMe

January 24, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

KA -

Regarding your charter school question for me….

My school was a charter school, and then didn’t renew. I have seen both sides of the fence.

The main advantage of a charter school is the ability to “kick out” students considered “bad”. Bad can be either behavior or academic. When students are now kicked out of charter schools, they must then go to their local regular public school.

If all schools were charter, then nothing would change. Where would the kicked out students go?

By Janine

January 24, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

just a teacher I think you are right about Charter schools just being a label not a solution. RE-naming the same ol’ programs,strategies,people,buildings is big in educaion, isn’t it?

By jim d

January 24, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

Jeff.

Actually we had the problems since LBJ. Then with over 40 years of “tweaking” by both parties we have come to where we currently find ourselves. There’s a great article on the history of NCLB located at.

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/educ/NCLBHistory.htm

I highly recommend the read, It may help you understand how we got here and the progression of legislation under both political parties that has led to our current NCLB policies. Keep in mind while reading it that both parties have played heavely on fears they have been able to generate amongst the American public.

By KA

January 24, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Janine, Yes, we need to stop ignoring our hard working and bright students! NCLB should be changed to Every Child Working tio Potential,and a positive, goal oriented agenda that would develop the abiliteis of our smart kids and those who want to study and learn, not the slackers and bad actors.

jim, I misspoke, I din’t meant that the Dems where responsible for the VietNam war, but that Democrats Kennedy and Johnson were both responsible for escalating the conflict into a full blown war. And wasn’t it a Republican that got us out of Vietnam…..?

By SET

January 24, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

KA: I agree with you about the democrats. My family is nearly all democrat. They are incapable of realizing what has happened to this country and that it didn’t have to happen - that there were prominent people warning congress what would happen if the “Great Society” programs were passed. A very few members of the family were prominent republicans alligned with Barry Goldwater.

Neither side could (or wanted to) understand the other.

To some degree I attribute all this to the complete lack of education in Economic History - or any business classses at all. They were too busy taking Chemistry and being teachers. My undergraduate eduation is economic history and business. I think that and my work experience is the main reason I see things completely different that my family.

Although the Democrats are singularly responsible for the Great Society and the related decline of the American Cities and Society - the Republicians by now are the same people in different clothes. I don’t give this administration a pass for it’s support of NCLB or any of the destructive legislation they support.

I do believe the republicians know better than the democrats what the likely results of their actions are. I believe they don’t care.

Both parties have sold out the country and are deliberately presiding over the dissolution of the people of the USA - importing other people the elites believe they can rule over more to their terms. Besides, electronic voting is on the way…

None of this is an accident, and there is no good will involved. The people involved are too rich and too educated not to understand the likely consequences of their policies and that goes double for NCLB.

As far as the rest of us goes, we do what we can with what we have to work with. This country is well on the way to becoming like the old Soviet Union. Better get ready. A police state will be required to keep the diverse, 3rd world dominated serfs in line…

And it will be illegal to speak the unwanted truth. (It already is - political correctness)

By jim d

January 24, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

KA,

Both JFK and LBJ inheireted a no win situation that was origionally escalated by commiting forces on the ground by Ike, as I recall. I was fairly young at the time so I may not be recalling exactly, but Ike did in fact commit the CIA and advisors, not sure if it was JFK that actually sent troops in or not. Yes, LBJ was handed a hot potato that he had to handle and yes, Nixon got us out, (I recall that evening very well) but only after committing even more troops that caused even more riots in the streets here at home.

By TW

January 24, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

What ever happened to the bell curve? I thought if everyone passed the test, it was too easy, and that in turn dumbed down the test pool?

By jim d

January 24, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Oh and KA,

I never have understood why we got involved after the french bailed out which did occur under Ike.

By jim d

January 24, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

SET,

We may have a chance as long as some of us continue to provide our children with the truth. It will be up to them to carry the truth of liberty and freedom for the next generation.

By Janine

January 24, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

Al..Welcome,….but working within the guidelines of a program with a goal that can never be met is not productive. THe NCLB requires that 100% of students be at the proficient level on state testing by school year 2013-2014 . THat’s like saying every single child will be able to run a mile in 3 minutes by 2014…even those in wheelchairs, or with physical limitations…It’s just not going to happen.

By Janine

January 24, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

TW…NCLB rejects the validity and/or existence of the Bell curve.

By jim d

January 24, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

Oh pas aussi Janine,

School systems across the country are proving it can be done.

“100% of students be at the proficient”

Kids are no longer students once they drop out and schools have come up with some really innovative methods of getting them out and then covering it so they don’t appear as dropouts.

By TW

January 24, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Janine - wow…’nuff said.

By Susan

January 24, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

I’ve been teaching for 25+ years - in special ed, mostly, and I just heard the state is going to DO AWAY with the technical diploma in high schools beginning next year. Apparently we are following the Texas school model where you make it so bad for kids that need something other than college that they drop out. THEN your test scores go up and it looks like everyone is doing wonderfully. Another sham of the Republicans that is going to be devastating to our young people. And at middle school we are working like crazy to help those at-risk kids! Why bother?? If I could quit teaching now, I think I would. I have loved teaching, but this is criminal. Let’s hear it for NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND.

By JustMe

January 24, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

Susan,

You said it best: “Another sham of the Republicans that is going to be devastating to our young people.”

By decaturparent

January 24, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

Go to educatorroundtable.org. Sign the petition. Attend the March 17 meeting at GA State. Write your reps in Congress - weekly.

Until there is a backlash from parents (not just teachers and admins) NCLB will be around, and all but a very small group of our students will be left behind. We may have to wait until the Morningsides and Vanderlyns of the world start failing AYP (they all will by 2014)but eventually, there will be a backlash. I just wish parents would take the time to see what is coming down the pike. I am amazed at how little parents know or care about NCLB. They hear the title and think, “Oh, that sounds nice!”

NCLB is a joke. Bush is even a bigger joke. I used to be Republican, but I had to switch parties because I just can’t align myself with such a bunch of idiots.

NEW BLOG TOPIC…. speaking of Republicans, Bridget why don’t you do some blogs on how the state legislature is getting ready to totally stick it to public schools. Take a good hard look at the budget and talk to the GA PTA, the GA Superintendents Assoc., and the GA School Board Assoc.

By OnlySETwilltouchthis

January 24, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

I sure won’t! Scientific American, in it’s new issue came out with the statement that it is “uncontested fact” that blacks score around 15 points lower on IQ test than whites. They don’t mention that there are tons of individual exceptions; I would think we as a society have moved far enough to accept this as bona fide fact, even if the scores on the whole are “uncontested fact” as Scientific American asserts.

The article then compares and contrast the views of those who think it’s the environment that is the cause of this, vs. those who think it’s heredity that causes this.

They also touched on the implications it has on closing the achievement gap.

I’ve seen where SET mentions the stink raised when talking about this with black attorneys. I did not know, until yesterday that this disparity in scores was an “uncontested fact” that a mainstream publication like Scientific American would assert.

I’m not touching this with a ten foot pole. Just wondering if SET is out there today?

By jim d

January 24, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Vouchers and private school control by the state. Here it is.

http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2007_08/fulltext/sb10.htm

The door would be wide open with this one:

(b) To qualify for a scholarship: (1) The student´s parent shall reside within Georgia; (2) The student shall have one or more of the following disabilities: (A) Autism; (B) Deaf/blind; (C) Deaf/hard of hearing; (D) Emotional and behavioral disorder; (E) Intellectual disability; (F) Orthopedic impairment; (G) Other health impairment; (H) Specific learning disability; (I) Speech-language impairment; (J) Traumatic brain injury; or (K) Visual impairment;

(4) The parent shall have obtained acceptance for admission of the student to an eligible private school

Note that the private schools may pick and choose their students; they are not required under this bill to accept all comers.

While the law would say this,

(6) Regularly report to the parent on the student´s progress, including, but not limited to, the results of any annual assessment given to the student, in accordance with department guidelines; and (7) Annually provide to the parents the relevant credentials of the teachers who will be teaching their students.

..there are no accountability standards that the private school would have to meet. And if you don’t believe that, try this section:

(d) The creation of the program shall not be construed to expand the regulatory authority of the state, its officers, or any public school system to impose any additional regulation of nonpublic schools beyond those reasonably necessary to enforce the requirements of this article.

While the bill continually calls this a “scholarship”, it is nothing more than a voucher with no accountability, just what Republicans have wanted for years.

If this one doesn’t light up some phones downtown—nothing will!

By JustMe

January 24, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

Okay, I will bite….

Yes, it is a mathematical truism that on average, blacks have lower scores compared to whites. This includes scores on everything from SAT to IQ tests. I believe (don’t quote me) that the difference between the two races in terms of IQ is 20 points. No one can dispute the numbers because they are what they are, period.

Does this mean that ALL blacks are dumber than ALL whites? The answer is a resounding NO. And, I will point you to a dictionary or math book to look up the word, “average.”

However, some people do dispute the validity of the tests. For example, some claim that the tests are socially biased. In other words, the test may ask a question using ‘milking a cow’ as the context when people living in the city may have no idea about such stuff. In fact, one IQ test that I saw had questions where students were to identify what didn’t belong or what was wrong in the pictures - and one picture was of a farm where there was a cow outside of its fence! Now how could middle-city children that may never even have seen grass (much less a farm) have possibly known that?

To me, and from what you have said, it sounds like the Scientific American article was just pointing out the mathematical truisms and raising some issues.

By Bridget Gutierrez

January 24, 2007 01:16 PM | Link to this

decaturparent: Check out my blog on the state budget from last week. There’s certainly a lot in the education budget to talk about, and I’m sure I’ll return to the topic again during the course of the session.

By OldSchool

January 24, 2007 01:16 PM | Link to this

Let’s just outsource education to Japan or some other country that already does it better and cheaper than we do.

There! I fixed it. Now I can retire.

By SET

January 24, 2007 01:33 PM | Link to this

Her I am with my reply to touch this…

Yes, it is beyond debate that the racial gap between whites and blacks is one standard deviation - 15 IQ points. That is the same gap between Whites and the Jewish/Asian block.

All the attempts on the part of liberals to claim that the gap is caused by faulty testing have failed except to them. The two gaps can be verified in many different ways - including nonverbal testing.

The gap deals with group norms, not individuals. Also if you have a largly black school near a military base you will find different numbers because the US Military blocks most blacks from enrolling even in a draft. The Black Military IQ average is stated as 102, White average is 103. This is why the military didn’t experience the war zone interracial problems the public schools did. They mercilessly sort by IQ (including blocking people too high for a given spot) in order to maintain cohesion. Brown v. Board of Education didn’t consider any of this when the Supreme Court destroyed the (previously functional) public schools by perscribing non-sorting of students.

The existance and the size of the racial gaps are not in dispute. The cause of them may be. They appear to be genetic but one can argue that pre-natal and post natal nutrition is a major factor also. The point is that as shown by the Bell Curve diagram, blacks have fewer numbers of genuises and more retarded. While Jews and Asians have more numbers of genuises and fewer retarded.

That’s interesting. So why didn’t the German Jews avoid the Holocaust if they are generally smarter (and have the Nobel prizes to prove it) and why didn’t Japan do better in WWII or in Post WWII economics? The German Jews failed to arm themselves and pre-emptively attack (kill) the Nazis. The French and Slavic resistance members were not high IQ but they were great with urban warfare against the Nazis.

It seems that IQ isn’t everything. It’s highly related to qualify of life, mortality, accident prevention, disease control, homicide rates, etc. My own theory is that at higher levels it can bring toxic alturism (Japanese didn’t have that, though - you don’t see them allowing 3rd world immigration or throwing money at Africa).

In any event, the research on the subject covers the 20th century data files. We are just now starting to use psychometric data and proxies for that data. I worked in retail credit before credit scores were developed (1972). Now the whole industry is credit score driven. Other behaviorial scores of all kinds are being used officially (example: CA adopted Static-99 to score sex offenders) and sub-rosa by business and government. Don’t think for a minute that racial gaps aren’t prominent in these scoring systems.

I believe that dealing with these things head on is more healthy than not. It is fun to watch the black bourgeois become hysterical (and refuse to act) when confronted with data they don’t like. The other groups see the data and hedge their bets.

So what do we do about this info? I’m not going to ignore an elephant in the room. I say we write policy to use available info. We should sort students into schools the same way the NFL sorts players into positions and the Military places or rejects recruits.

As far as changing the gap - good luck. It won’t happen in our lifetime. Not without a police state it won’t. You can’t mix “freedom” and a welfare state. Especially an open borders welfare state. Sooner rather than later we will all be working and living at gunpoint. It’s actually planned.

By parentof3

January 24, 2007 01:48 PM | Link to this

The post about how parents are ignorant about NCLB caught my eye. I do have a vague understanding that it is bad because of too much focus on unneccessary testing and unrealistic expectations for special ed kids. But honestly, my knowledge of it is pretty vague and I think of myself as reasonably up to date and intelligent.

I like the statistical information that is available to me now about my children’s school because of NCLB. Though I am unhappy at CRCT time about all the emphasis placed on preparing.

So tell me, in ordinary language, not education speak, what are the 5 things I as a parent should know about NCLB that teachers know and hate? What is coming soon “down the pike” that is not here now?

I really want to know. I think, on reflection, I actually am ignorant about it.

By the way, my three children are white, upper middle class, with two married educated parents, all three are in the gifted program, and I am actually pleased with their public schools right now. So, will I be more unhappy eventually than I am now; and will parents whose children fall in a different socioeconomic demographic be more or less unhappy than I will be? Or will we all be unhappy?

By OnlySETJustMewilltouchthis

January 24, 2007 02:08 PM | Link to this

“To me, and from what you have said, it sounds like the Scientific American article was just pointing out the mathematical truisms and raising some issues.”

Just me is also braver than I! Yes the article was just pointing out the truisms and raising issues; not making an editorial stand

Could ANY leader have the guts to do what SET suggest with the data?

By mmm

January 24, 2007 02:15 PM | Link to this

Just me. It is quite obvious that yours was a conversion charter with the wrong motivation to begin with that therefore should not have been renewed.

A start-up is an entirely different animal—-we can’t refuse to admit and we have been so tangled in knots by the district that we can’t make an expulsion for cause stick either, even for a child that brings a knife to school. In the four years that the school has been in existance no one has been successfully thrown out (although there was one parent that was so beligerently demanding in the principal’s office that we had to call the police to have her escorted off-site. We later sent a letter suggesting that this might be considered a breach of the parental contract that states that the parent will cooperate with the school, and she didn’t return of her own accord the following fall.)

We have good reason to suspect that some of the administrators at the other schools have told problem parents of problem kids “Johnny is having difficulty adjusting, why don’t you try … they are good at troubled children.”

There are appropriate and inappropriate reasons to create a charter school. That is why it is useful to have both local and state-level approvals. The balance has been shifting toward fewer “conversions” because rarely are they innovative or autonomous enough to really warrant a charter. We can and should argue about appropriateness of the motives certain people have for their charters separate from our discussion of the tool itself.

You have displayed your motivation—please don’t claim to speak for all of us.

By jim d

January 24, 2007 02:36 PM | Link to this

Worst points of NCLB.

Federal control

Lack of funding

100% proficency

Teaching to a test.

AYP requirements

Forcing students out.

By JustMe

January 24, 2007 03:04 PM | Link to this

My dear mmm….

The charter renewal for my school was NOT “denied.” We simply did not renew it (missed the deadline for submitting the paperwork). Your assumption that it was “denied” speaks volumes about you.

To Parentof3:

Here are some issues with NCLB….

By catlady

January 24, 2007 03:08 PM | Link to this

parent of 3: for your kids it is going to get much, much worse if you stay in the average or below average public school. Hope your kids are nearly grown. I cannot speak about the high, high-demanding/achieving public schools, but those of us with a spectrum of kids will beg God for a return to the “good ole days” of 2006. As a 3rd generation teacher of 33 years (the 4th generation has been teaching 8 years now) I am telling her to go back to tech school or something and get a skill outside of teaching that won’t wring out her spirit bit by bit.

You know, while I feel for Jeff, he is lucky. He has not been doing this long enough to have a serious financial incentive to stick it out (like folks do with 18 years’ experience) and he has an easily marketable skill. Pity the rest of us, even the exceptionally bright and multi-degreed who know how to and love to convey information and develop skills and mentor young people. The circus that is developing with NCLB, etc., will preclude that, I am afraid, and make the degradation of education, which we have been embarked upon for about 20 years, complete. Even so, Lord, quickly come.

By jim d

January 24, 2007 03:08 PM | Link to this

just me,

We both overlooked the one thing we can’t see over;

The mountain of paperwork required for compliance.

By catlady

January 24, 2007 03:20 PM | Link to this

parent3—here is what I used to do: plan, implement, and evaluate instruction, and have conferences with parents and students. Now, this part of my day gets significantly less of my time, because of other, idiot work that has to be done that has no positive effect on my students’ accomplishments.

The children at my school literally run from class to class. Most of them have little or no instruction in science or social studies. They do get 15 minutes of recess (unlike last year, when about half of them had none at all) because we are starting our day another 10 minutes earlier and we have cut back on their time for art, music, and pe. Teachers are spending 4 or more hours a night writing lesson plans, and their health, families and marriages are suffering. If it resulted in more learning, some might consider it worth it, but our scores have gotten worse X2 since NCLB was implemented and we went to scripted reading and Reading First and Learning Focused Schools. Meanwhile, someone is profiting greatly from selling these materials to our central office, state, etc.

By decaturparent

January 24, 2007 03:30 PM | Link to this

The way NCLB is working out right now is this…. Affluent schools and school systems are able to maintain authentic learning and holistic programs such as IB and Expeditionary Learning despite NCLB.

They are able to provide this for two reasons… First, they have large numbers of high achieving kids that can be left to “teach themselves” while the teachers can focus on a relatively small number of lower achieving kids.

Second if these schools even muttered an interest in something like Direct Instruction parents would tear down the doors to the central offices and remove the superintendent themselves. A similar fate would befall them if they mentioned getting rid of foreign language, art or music.

Sooooo. … what happens is in schools that are overrun with poverty and slow learners and therefore fails AYP, the administration has to buy cr_p like DI because there are just too many kids that need extra help so the schools do not have the time or resources for authentic learning. There is only time to prepare for the test. DI is the most efficient way to teach for shallow tests.

In these high poverty schools, many parents do not have the sophistication or the time/energy/interest to understand that it is NOT OK for their kindergartners to be taught with a dog clicker (they actually do use dog clickers in DI). Plus most parents in these schools either lack the motivation or the time/energy to fight this type of garbage even if they do understand it.

The result? Affluent kids and a few underprivileged kids lucky enough to go to affluent public schools get a reasonable or perhaps an excellent education despite NCLB NOT because of it. In contrast, poor kids are taught with dog clickers to fill in bubbles on shallow tests. They do not learn the skills that will allow them to get highly skilled jobs or even to make sound decisions when faced with complex life problems. That way, the rich can stay rich and rest assured that the poor don’t have the critical thinking skills to get in their way.

Isn’t if funny that Bush responds to the horrendous failure in Iraq by wanting to send more troops there and at the same time responds to the horrendous NCLB failure (as documented by many research studies) by wanting to add to its toxicity.

See a pattern there?

Now let’s talk about the Bozos at the state house and see how they will finish the job of destroying public schools….

By JustMe

January 24, 2007 03:38 PM | Link to this

mmm -

Dying to know…. what do you think that my “motivation” is regarding charter schools? Would love to hear from you!

By jim d

January 24, 2007 03:41 PM | Link to this

Cat,

I fear you are correct. Fortunately we’re down to 247 days or 1482 instructional hours. But hey——-Who’s counting! :-)

By JustMe

January 24, 2007 03:43 PM | Link to this

decaturparent -

You had me falling over with laughter at your comment… “Now let’s talk about the Bozos at the state house and see how they will finish the job of destroying public schools….”

By jim d

January 24, 2007 03:44 PM | Link to this

BTW Cat,

that breaks down to be 88,920 minutes or 5,296,200 ticks of the clock.

But like I said—Who’s counting?

By decaturparent

January 24, 2007 03:54 PM | Link to this

parentof3 - As a parent of gifted children, you should be particularly worried about NCLB. Your school has no real motivation, other than to avoid your complaints, to teach your child anything beyond what GA deems “proficient.” You children probably start the school year able to pass the CRCT for their grade.

Children who perform above grade level are not served by NCLB. Once a kid is mediocre or “proficient,” the school’s job is done even if that kid has a genius IQ.

Gifted children are hurt the most by the type of teaching required by criterion referenced testing. Gifted kids typically have high energy, strong curiosity, a divergent mind and little patience for boredom. Criterion based testing discourages curiousity and rewards only memorization not thinking.

I am sure that your affluent school has already been damaged by NCLB. I would bet that art, PE, recess, music and foreign language (things that all children and especially gifted learners desperately need) have been cut back or eliminated because the slower learners need the extra drill time.

You affluent school has also been damaged by NCLB because resources and time that was spent on gifted learners has been redirected to “bubble kids” - those who are expected to be close to passing the CRCT. As we edge toward 100% accountability and as even affluent school begin to see more diversity, your school will be under more pressure to get everyone over a low bar. You too could see kindergartners taught with dog clickers by 2014.

As NCLB pressure mounts, you can also expect more financial resources to be spent on lower achieving kids. I would not be at all surprised to see the end of gifted education althogether by 2014.

By just a teacher

January 24, 2007 04:03 PM | Link to this

Parentof3: I teach at a public school very much like the one you describe. We are consistently commended by Atlanta magazine and our SAT scores, etc. have been in the top ten in the state for years. We did not “make AYP” last year, and there’s a good chance we won’t this year. The issue is not as simple as affluence versus poverty. The issue is diversity: namely, we’re being punished for it. The AJC did a piece on some local schools that did not make AYP last year but that are in many other ways stellar schools. There are a bunch of us. It is infuriating that a diverse school, with a range and wealth of student experiences and talents, is penalized. (AYP is not based on the school as a whole, but on subgroups. A failure in ANY subgroup is a failure for the whole school.)

The intent of the law truly does seem to be painting EVERY public school as “failing.” I imagine this plan is meant to prime the American people for an even bigger overhaul of education, i.e. privitization.

By parentof3

January 24, 2007 04:12 PM | Link to this

Thanks everyone for all the info. I’m going to try to figure out how to print your answers so I can read them over a few more times. I guess I need to do a little more research on this. I’m thinking I’ll start first by asking the teachers at my children’s schools what they think.

I have noticed those word walls and those laminated sheets that have some number and then say “The student will be able to… .” taking up a lot of space on the whiteboards. I’ve been wondering what in the world they were there for.

This whole discussion makes me sad for my kids. They are not older children(the oldest is in middle school.)

Anyway, thanks again.

By mmm

January 24, 2007 04:31 PM | Link to this

Just me.

I didn’t say your renewal was denied, I said “should have been” denied. If your unique innovative mission wasn’t meaningful enough to pay attention to the deadline, that is more evidence that the reasons that you project onto all other charters i.e. “The main advantage of a charter school is the ability to “kick out” students considered “bad”. Bad can be either behavior or academic.” from your 10:36 quote were, in fact, your own authentic motivations and those of others in the building?

So I ask—-when your school was charter, did you use it as an excuse to get rid of “bad” kids?

By SET

January 24, 2007 05:18 PM | Link to this

decaturparent:

So now we’re using dog clickers in the public schools? It’s worse than I thought.

I still have fond memories of teaching grades 8-12 when I was a sub. There were books, slideshows, charts, group projects, and subject discussions. No dog clickers. But then I don’t remember a lot of bubble answer sheets either. They had to write answers to test questions in English.

I guess I’ve been gone too long.

Exactly what are these schools preparing the kids to do for a living, anyway?

I want to see Mr. Liberty’s take on what parents should do about this!!

By Jeff

January 24, 2007 05:37 PM | Link to this

Cat:

Right now I’m defintely staying in computing - or at least away from education - through 2014. After that, we’ll see. I truly do feel sorry for education majors these days, particularly those who come from Colleges of Education where Education is first. At Kennesaw, you were (at least in Secondary Ed majors) a Subject Matter Expert that happened to be trained in education. Which means that even though you have “Education” as your major, you could stand a chance at getting a non-education job in whatever area you teach. (Such as a Science Education major becoming a professional chemist.) Colleges of Education where you are an Educator that happens to know a little about a particular subject are the ones whose graduates I feel sorry for. They are doomed, unless they actively go back and get another non-EDUC degree, to be stuck in education, whether they like it or not.

Parent:

From a 1 year teacher:

1) Student Discipline: Particularly in schools that use attendance as a secondary indicator, you’ve almost seen the compelete demise of out of school suspension. That in NO WAY means that students are not committing offenses that even when I was a student (HS c/o 01) would have merited suspension AT A MINIMUM. It just means that now rather than going home for 5 - 10 days and spending the first 5 days back in In School Suspension, the kid MIGHT see 3 days ISS.

2) Needless paperwork has been hit on.

3) True teaching has been hit on.

4) Subgroups and failure because of one of them has been hit on.

5) Services to normal and above normal students has been hit on.

Let me add a 6th thing (just because it is SOOOO important):

6) STUDENT DISCIPLINE!!!!!!

By catlady

January 24, 2007 06:04 PM | Link to this

decaturparent—amen, amen, but I think you are being too optimistic about it, actually. You said it in a way I wish I had.

SET—“dogclickers” is correct. And that is not the worst of what we are doing. We are preparing the brightest children not at all. Think they care about a dog clicker? And being asked what color the boy’s jacket was? And playing the “teacher vs. student” game. A ton of money going to the bottom 2/3, but we paint the bright kids with the same brush and make them sit through the same dull, repetitive lessons, and spend 2 hrs and 20 minutes on reading but NO time for science and social studies. .

Our kids are failing CRCT because we teach them to call words fast (from kindergarten on) but don’t worry about comprehension till they get to 4th grade. Our SRA text and Reading First, even then, put inordinate emphasis on how fast they call words, rather than if they have a clue about what they read. And then, we ask simplistic questions, thanks to DI (SRA) (believe it or not, the CRCT is a little more sophisticated). But we teachers are the problem—we need to work harder! The teachers at our school spin like whirling dervishes. Our Essential Questions are on the board and the kids can recite which state standard they are working on. But we are just playing school, it seems. As I recall, REAL EDUCATION looked a lot different from this.

By catlady

January 24, 2007 06:12 PM | Link to this

decaturparent, I think gifted programs will be (cough, cough) “integrated” into the regular classroom like special ed and ESOL; ie, the regular classroom teacher will have to meet the needs of gifted, ESOL, BD, MR, above average kids, kids on meds, bubble kids, EIP kids in the room with no additional help, eventually. We are galloping that way now. SST is being phased out this year. As long as a child is being successful, even with modifications that are 3 or more years below grade level, the child gets no special ed help. Only the very most severe cases will get special ed assistance (such as blind, severely physically handicapped, or profoundly MR). I expect gifted will be the last to be integrated, due to the strength of the voting of the gifted parents, but it won’t be allowed to continue as pull out, I believe.

By decaturparent

January 24, 2007 06:20 PM | Link to this

SET - yes, impoverished schools who have resorted to DI often use dog clickers. The teachers wear them on a chain or ribbon around their necks. I would imagine that they will be calling them back from lunch with dog whistles soon. All in the name of test scores.

Only the lower classes in the badly failing schools have been subjected to this degredation from what I understand.

I’m not setting up a pet debate here. However, I am see my pets in a very anthropocentric way so I don’t even use a clicker with my dogs b/c it seems demeaning to me (again I’m not critisizing clicker training - I’m just saying if some won’t even use it on a dog why use it on a kid?)

By decaturparent

January 24, 2007 06:24 PM | Link to this

One more thing. Re the clickers, for those who are skeptical, just Google “Direct Instruction” and “clicker.” You will get a ton of hits.. many of them procedural guides written for teachers and admins. Make sure to read the guides so you understand what is at stake with NCLB.

DI is may be in your school too by 2014.

By LegacyofNCLB

January 24, 2007 06:33 PM | Link to this

Bush, Cheney, Rod Paige, Margaret Spellings…The Four Horsemen of the Incompetence

By catlady

January 24, 2007 06:39 PM | Link to this

Actually, ALL the students in our K-5 in our county are supposed to be under dog clickers— 2 years above grade level, 2 years below, it doesn’t matter. Also, with DI all students are to sit a certain way and move their finger under the words (tracking) a certain way and if ANYONE is not doing it, you are supposed to STOP the lesson until the offending party is brought back into the (Nazi) fold.

By thomas

January 24, 2007 07:29 PM | Link to this

Everything Catlady has said is so true. So very, very true. I can say this because I lived it. A local metro county uses DI, along with DIBELS, as its primary means of reading instruction. Some classes are allowed to use the Houghthon Mifflin reading series as part of the reading instruction, BUT THAT’S ALL. Even the Houghton was scripted/regimented. They called the lessons “Enhanced Lessons.”

In all honesty, this is where all teaching is going, in all schools. In a system in an affluent, northern suburb, teachers are being forced to implement America’s Choice like tactics, regardless of the school or test scores. Teachers are encouraged/pressured to use lesson formats from some twisted online database.

I have tried, like Paul Revere, to warn as many people as I could about the upcoming apocalypse. To not avail. You may hear people grumbling and complaining about the mandates like DI, curriculum mapping, and America’s Choice/Learning Focused tactics thrust upon them, but you haven’t seen nothing yet.

Let me warn you again— ESOL will soon be over. The classroom teacher will be providing the “ESOL support” in the classroom. I told you guys months ago it was coming. I learned this through my ESOL channels. I heard it directly from ESOL system brass. Soon you will have to implement SIOP (sheltered instruction observation protocol). This is where you modify your entire lessons to reach ELL students. THIS TUESDAY I SAT THROUGH A GRADE LEVEL MEETING WITH SOMEONE FROM THE COUNTY OFFICE ESOL DEPARTMENT WHO DROPPED THIS BOMB ON US. He didn’t use the word “SIOP”, but he told us about ACCESS (which I knew about already) and directed us to some ELL site. Then he gave us the lesson plan framework and some example of why we should use it for ALL of our lessons, particularly science and social studies.

I am so d_ glad I am about to get out of the classroom. Yall are about to get freaked up!!!! First it’s SPED, next it’s ESOL, then it will be the unserved SPED and other behavior problems. Catlady is so right about SST too. And I read the upcoming 2007 DOE changes for SPED. There isn’t going to be any more LD/BD (the biggest category of SPED). Unless you are crippled, blind, or deaf, you will NOT be SPED.

Oh, and don’t let me forget— GIFTED IS BACK IN THE CLASSROOM, TOO!!! Back in 2005, a gifted teacher told me that they WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK INTO THE CLASSROOM TO SERVE STUDENTS. The guise is that they would be serving “high potentials”, students who are intelligent, but don’t qualify for the gifted program. I am seeing this happen in two counties now. The next logical step would be to move towards “gifted inclusion.” Soon afterwards NO GIFTED TEACHER AT ALL.

The whole point is to: ELIMINATE THE SPECIAL TEACHER, ELIMINATE THE ESOL TEACHER, ELIMINATE THE GIFTED TEACHER,

AND ALL THE MONEY PUT INTO THOSE PROGRAMS!!!!

By terri

January 25, 2007 08:09 AM | Link to this

Catlady, you were absolutely correct when you stated that “someone is profiting greatly from selling these materials to our central office, state, etc.” Funny thing is, I know who 2 of those someones are. One is the president’s long time friend and neighbor. see- http://www.trelease-on-reading.com/whatsnu_bush-mcgraw.html

The other is the president’s brother. see- http://www.ignitelearning.com/

By terri

January 25, 2007 08:32 AM | Link to this

I found an excellent editorial about the Bush profits here- http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1022-02.htm It’s definitely worth the read. We can’t defeat NCLB if we don’t know what we’re dealing with.

By decaturparent

January 25, 2007 09:38 AM | Link to this

TIRED OF BLOGGING ABOUT NCLB? WANT TO TAKE ACTION? Register and come to this meeting at Georgia State……

March 17th, 2007

Educators, parents, students, policy analysts, school board members, and other concerned citizens will gather in Atlanta, Georgia and publicly call on Congress to dismantle NCLB. Join us for distinguished speakers, debate, discussion, questions, and coalition building.

Atlanta, GA Georgia State University 9 a.m. to 5 p.m Room TBA

David C. Berliner is a Regents’ Professor in the College Of Education at Arizona State University. His books include Educational Psychology (6th edition) (with N. L. Gage), The Manufactured Crisis (with B. J. Biddle), and The Handbook of Educational Psychology (edited with R. L. Calfee). He has served as president of the American Educational Research Association and of the Educational Psychology Division of the American Psychological Association. Berliner is a fellow of the Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences and a member of the National Academy of Education. Collateral Damage: How High-Stakes Testing Corrupts America’s Schools, written by Sharon L. Nichols and David Berliner, will be available in March of 2007.

Deron Boyles is Professor of Educational Policy Studies in the College of Education at Georgia State University. His research interests include philosophy of education, school-business partnerships, epistemology, pragmatism and the philosophy of John Dewey, and critical pedagogy. His work has been published in such journals as Philosophy of Education, Social Epistemology, Journal of Thought, Philosophical Studies in Education, Educational Foundations, History of Education Quarterly, Educational Studies, and Educational Theory. His first book, American Education and Corporations: The Free Market Goes to School won the Critics’ Choice Award from the American Educational Studies Association. Schools or Markets?: Commercialism, Privatization, and School-Business Partnerships, his second book, is an edited volume highlighting young scholars and their work on corporatism.

Marion Brady is a retired middle school through university level teacher, teacher educator, county-level administrator, publisher consultant, author of textbooks published by Prentice-Hall and Books For Educators, professional books published by The State University of New York Press and Books For Educators, a long-time writer of newspaper columns on education for Knight Ridder/Tribune, and frequent contributor to professional education journals.

Kenneth Goodman is professor Emeritus at the University of Arizona. He is a practical theorist, researcher and teacher educator whose work has changed our understanding of literacy processes, how they are learned, and how best to teach them. His sociotransactional theory of the reading process is the most widely cited in the world. Responding to the negative effects that standardization has had on our children’s education, Goodman’s most recent works include The Truth About DIBELS: What It Is - What It Does, and Saving Our Schools: The Case For Public Education, Saying No to No Child Left Behind. Dr. Goodman’s presentation will address the “science” behind Reading First, a program used by thousands of Georgia’s educators.

Susan Ohanian is a longtime teacher and prolific writer. Her more than 300 articles have appeared in publications ranging from The Atlantic, The Nation, USA Today, and Parents, to Phi Delta Kappan, School Board Journal,The School Administrator, Education Week, and English Journal. The latest of Susan’s many books is Why Is Corporate America Bashing Our Public Schools? The National Council of Teachers of English gave susanohanian.org the George Orwell Award for Distintiguished Contribution to Honesty and Clarity in Public Language.

This free meeting is limited to 300 people. If you wish to attend, you must register in advance. Travel from the airport to Georgia State University and surrounding hotels using MARTA. We suggest The Residence Inn, 3 blocks from campus or The Renaissance, further from campus but closer to the heart of the city.

By Janine

January 25, 2007 09:57 AM | Link to this

The clickers and Direct Instruction are implemented in an effort to TAKE THE TEACHER OUT OF THE EQUATION! This, according to DI proponents, will mean that all students,in every school in the system will get the same instruction at the same time, delivered in the same way. THe teacher’s personality, experience, approaches,intelligence, attitude, etc will not be a factor….

By 30 Year Teacher

January 25, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

I think I’m confused about the use of clickers. I keep a bicycle horn on my desk and give it one quick beep to get my rowdy class to settle down at the beginning of class. It eliminates my yelling over the change of class noise (and they don’t pay attention to that anyway). One beep and everyone’s ready to go and I am not standing in front of kids screaming for attention. Now this is only one class, don’t need it in the others, but for me it’s a solution. In fact, it has reached the point that when I reach for the horn everyone immediately gets quiet. Pavlov’s dog? So again, how are clickers being used?

By Lisa B.

January 25, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Thomas and Catlady:

You both make very good, though depressing points. I have 20 years to go in teaching, and sometimes I am terrified about the future of public education. I try very hard to keep a positive attitude, but it can be difficult.

By em

January 25, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

President Bush “won’t stand for any ‘watering down’ of standards?” I guess he hasn’t seen how Georgia scores its EOCTs. Nothing has changed! Students still don’t know anything but because the tests, which are criterion based, are norm referenced test scores look good.

By catlady

January 25, 2007 01:09 PM | Link to this

Teacher: The first word is burnt. What word? (click) class answers in unison, or start over. How is it spelled? (click) class spells.

The next word is fish. What word? (click) Class: Fish Teacher: Spell fish (click) etc…

AD NAUSEUM

By 30 Year Teacher

January 25, 2007 01:26 PM | Link to this

Thanks, catlady. Good grief. That is beyond rediculous. Hopefully I’ll be retired before that hits FL.

By Lee

January 26, 2007 08:39 AM | Link to this

People in education tend to forget that there was a reason for the passage of NCLB. For years, schools have been in a decline and graduating students who were functionally illiterate. Even on this blog, I regularly read where high school teachers are getting students who are reading on a 4th or 5th grade level.

But dog clickers?

I am envisioning two salesmen sitting in a bar. One says to the other, “Earl. You ought to give up selling vacuum cleaners and come work with me in the education field.”

Earl says, *”I don’t know nuthin’ about education.”

“That’s the beauty of it. You don’t have to know anything about education. Those morons at the DOE and central office will buy anything. Just cook up a few bogus statistics and take them to lunch. He11, I bet I could come up with an instructional method using dog clickers, and those idiots would buy it.”

“Get outta here.”

“I’ll prove it.”*

And the rest, as they say, is history.

By KA

January 26, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

SET, I want to go back to what you said on 1/23 @ 1:24pm, “The existence and the size of the racial gaps are not in dispute. The cause of them may be. They appear to be genetic but one can argue that pre-natal and post natal nutrition is a major factor also.” IMO this is the key to the difference in IQ ‘s among races and ethnic groups. In other words there is not just one cause, but many influences that can stimulate or retard mental abilities. And as you so aptly pointed out regarding the different IQ’s, “It seems that IQ isn’t everything. It’s highly related to qualify of life, mortality, accident prevention, disease control, homicide rates, etc.” I think the real difference in achievment among the races and different ethnic groups lies in how hard they are willing to work, how they organize themselves to work, and how they follow through. You