Get Schooled

By jim d

January 22, 2007 08:10 AM | Link to this

what’s a superintendent to do?

Well in Gwinnetts case Alvin spent a whole lot of money, and continues to, for some questionable advice from, Target Market Trends, a state BOE members company.

http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/index.php?s=&urlchannelid=1&urlsubchannelid=&urlarticleid=23639&changewellid=2

By KA

January 22, 2007 08:19 AM | Link to this

Teach them English, and get their parents in English classes, too. I am tired of asking store clerks if they have something in stock and they cannot answer me because they don’t speak English!

By war eagle

January 22, 2007 08:25 AM | Link to this

make the requirement for coming to the USA to be speak English or leave!

By war eagle

January 22, 2007 08:26 AM | Link to this

NO! Ship them back! Why must we use school resources to teach illegals English? They don’t do it in other countries-besides, we need the resources to be spent on American kids with other problems. Ship them back until they can speak English!

By terry

January 22, 2007 08:28 AM | Link to this

School systems have to be all inclusive, whether people like it or not it is the law. Hispanics that are born here are legal and have to be treated as equal in a school system. They have to be given an opportunity to learn with the way our laws are currently. The laws need to be changed and unless the law changes this is the system superintendents must work under. Since the big debate of immigration, legal Mexicans have been under the microscope. Hispanic children are more likely to receive threats from their peers in schools and experience prejudice since immigration has become a national topic. We see this all the time here in Forsyth. School systems must operate as if all children are equal, all children and their families must receive communications and all children must receive whatever tools they need to learn.

By terry

January 22, 2007 08:33 AM | Link to this

Sorry we have no laws for a national language.. These people are not required to learn english, so until that time people need to accept the fact there will be language barriers

Who will pay for instruction of the English language - not me. Can they be encouraged to learn English - absolutely. There are many resources to learn English for free — private enterprises and churches often offer English classes for free to the hispanic population.

By lucky

January 22, 2007 09:05 AM | Link to this

It is also the law that ALL public school children must be UP-TO-DATE on their childhood immunizations prior to admission to school. I was required to produce these records when my son went to school, and without them there was absolutely no leeway.

So, what happened to this requirement? There is absolutely no way these children straight from illegal entry are up to date and have legitimate records. How does the law requiring these immunizations get superceded by the law requiring an education be provided? How does the law only apply to US citizens and taxpayers?

What has happened to our country and how is this accepted? The business owners want and get cheap labor and the taxpayers fund the consequences. The cost of education, although substantial, is only a small fraction of the cost.

No, special efforts at teaching English should not be paid by the school district. Let charitable organizations such as the ACLU, MECHLA, LaRaza and church schools put their money into teaching English, and the school administrators use their backbone and not admit any children without documentation of immunizations.

By Monday Blues

January 22, 2007 09:12 AM | Link to this

Well, Sycamore Elementary in Sugar Hill is catering to the non-english speaking parents, by having “Hispanic Parent Night”. When will they have “White Parent Night”, or “Asian Parent night”? My point is, all other nationalities who chose to live in the US, learn our language and customs. Not the hispanics. They insist we cater to them and learn their language. I, for one, am getting very tired of this.

By KA

January 22, 2007 09:15 AM | Link to this

lucky, Good point! Are children really being allowed in schools without the required immunizations? Does anyone know about this?

By teach overseas

January 22, 2007 09:19 AM | Link to this

There really is much of a dilemma.

Under the law, every child who shows up at the front door of a school has to be admitted and serviced. This means children who have whatever special need you can imagine (and a lot you never could!) And if that child shows up without English, immunizations, breakfast, school supplies, self-discipline, medication or eye glasses, and they need those things to learn… it is the responsibility of the school to provide those things to the child.

Don’t like it? Then work to get the law changed, but until then, schools will continue to to need more and more money to educate children. All children.

By Guy Pinestra

January 22, 2007 09:21 AM | Link to this

OK, 1 in 3 Gwinnett 5 year-olds don’t speak English? Chances are that MOST of them weren’t born here, but were brought by their illegal alien parents in violation of our immigration laws. I say this because learning English is a requirement for legal immigration.

$33 million in Gwinnett? Another $30 million or so in Cobb. Then you add DeKalb, Clayton, Cherokee, Douglas and Forsyth. I’d say Metro Atlanta is spending $200 million a year or more for ESL alone.

Wake up, people! We are over-running education with millions of school-aged children who are illiterate in their native languages, and penalizing American children by making them wait while the ‘poor immigrants’ catch up. We’re trying to teach them in cramped and over-crowded trailers while we tax ourselves silly throwing money at a problem that money can’t solve.

By WFC

January 22, 2007 09:24 AM | Link to this

I’ve taken ESOL courses and sympathize with families struggling to integate into American culture. However, I find ESOL to be a flawed concept for one simple reason: if I implemented all ESOL concepts into my regular history classes, the bright native English speakers would be “bored out of their minds” at the slow pace required for “inclusion.” LEARN ENGLISH FIRST!

By SET

January 22, 2007 09:26 AM | Link to this

What to do is obvious. Make no accomodation for the foreign language whatsoever. Then segregate those who can’t manage english quickly into alternative schools. Allow transfers back for those who learn english. The rest sjhould never see a standard school.

Otherwise what has happened to Los Angeles Unified will happen to your schools. The schools will cease to be “schools” and become Towers of Babel. Education for the English speaking Americans will cease, and student life will decline into endless sectarian violence.

When it’s sink or swim, people learn to swim.

By Ernest

January 22, 2007 09:54 AM | Link to this

Seems like the only thing school officials can do is to continue creating awareness of the challenges they face, with hopes of getting additional funding and/or changes in the law that addresses these situations. Like SET said, seems like we would have learned from LA Unified as a precedent. We may be headed in the same direction.

Lucky, you said The business owners want and get cheap labor and the taxpayers fund the consequences. I agree, we need to look at those who actively seek to employ those, with hopes of reducing labor costs and increasing profit margins. Consumers also share in the blame by wanting ‘low costs’ for most products.

Too bad our school systems couldn’t apply for ‘financial aid’ from Mexico and other countries that provide a large percentage of ESOL students….

By Guy Pinestra

January 22, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

What happened to the other 8 comments in this thread? Are we suffering from a bout of PC censorship?

When you add all the other Metro counties to Gwinnett’s $33 million I venture the total is over $200 million dollars a year for ESOL alone.

We are over-running education with hundreds of thousands of school-aged children who are illiterate in their native languages, and penalizing American children by making them wait while the ‘poor immigrants’ catch up. We’re trying to teach them in cramped and over-crowded trailers while we tax ourselves silly throwing money at a problem that money can’t solve.

By Pre-K Teacher

January 22, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

And in Georgia’s Pre-K, teachers are required to post labels in any language that students speak at home.

By Guy Pinestra

January 22, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Suddenly the comments have re-appeared. Forgive me for repeating myself…

By Jeff

January 22, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

We, as a nation, have everything mixed up as far as education goes. Here’s why:

There are two forms of government tyranny. One is ultra strict, totalitarian-esque (Big Brother). The other is ultra passive, lassiez-faire style. We treat our kids with the latter (look at education today) and our adults with the former (Sunday liquor sales, etc).

Give kids freedom, and they are lost. Give adults tight controls, and they are miserable.

By Janine

January 22, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

For most of my 32 years in teaching, I was assigned to schools that had ESOL populations. I was an ESOL teacher for many years. I watched the progression: In the early and mid 70’s, the students in my school came primarily from Cambodia, Viet Nam, Korea,and Laos, with a smattering from South America and Central America. THey attended ESOL classes for a small portion of their school day.WHile they loved their native countries and hoped to go back someday, all made every effort to learn English quickly, followed every rule, and were thankful for everything America provided for them. From this time forward, I watched as student attitudes changed, I think from appreciation to entitlement. At first, the change was hardly noticeable, but by the end of my career [teaching in the same area of Dekalb,] most students were from Mexico, with a smattering from other countries. They seemed resentful of America and our traditions. Many, if not most, were not interested in achieving academically, many would be away from school for several weeks while visiting in Mexico. Virtually none wanted to be in the USA permanently. THe ESOL classes were now called “ESOL Inclusion”….the ESOL teacher and students who speak little English are assigned to a regular ed class with a regular ed teacher and students. Guess who loses out here>>>>>EVeryone!!!

By jim d

January 22, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

SET,

It is called english immersion and is something many of us have been advocating for years.

By taking the esol classes

January 22, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

To: KA Sorry but I don’t think the school system itself is required to supply glasses for students. I believe that comes through the health department where children must get that immunization certificate before they can enter our schools. My school system can get right ugly about that. I’m taking the classes for esol and the purpose is to teach the students english AFTER school. I’m not required to learn more about their language. They have to learn mine. Where I live, we have a very vocal group of spanish speaking people who encourage taking english classes by everyone. The world is changing. I don’t like it, but it’s my job to teach what I have. I find it very enlightening, and do my best to communicate to my parents and make them feel welcome and more at ease to become a part of their child’s education. That’s the key—getting the parents’ participation. I feel fortunate that I have some choice for my child’s schooling, and I have empathy for you when you don’t have these choices for your own kids. Frankly, the biggest problems I face is keeping my child from speaking incorrect grammar from all the peers he has in his class that are from families that ARE americans and do not value an education and speak either hillbilly or ebonics. Of the two, maybe I would rather be in your situation. I don’t believe in coming to this country illegally, but at least I see that these people do want a better life for themselves and are willing to risk breaking the law to have a better life for their children. Not sure I can say that for the ones who just sit in my classroom and do nothing except enjoy the free breakfast and lunch.

By sallysue

January 22, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!

By just a teacher

January 22, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

The proposition that schools not teach English to students who don’t know it is self-defeating for many reasons, not the least of which is NCLB. At the high school level, every junior who has been enrolled a certain number of weeks must take the graduation test; their scores count, regardless of whether they’ve been speaking English for 16 years or 16 weeks. At least at my school, we allocate a huge amount of resources to those students because if we don’t, we’ll end up being an “in-need-of-improvement” school (in spite of the fact that we have a 95+ percent pass rate overall).

By JustMe

January 22, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

For those complaining about illegals, please realize that language barriers occur for legals as well. So, we have to find a viable solution to this problem in any case.

I suggest for students to not be admitted to a regular public school until they are able to pass a grade level English test (this could be combination of written and verbal). The State should provide special English schools in various districts to provide for these language challenged students.

Heck, I even like the idea of putting American students that do not have the proper English skills into these State run institutions until they can catch up. Why should other students be held back? Why should the school systems spend their money on these students?

This approach will mean that schools will not have their ayp or EOCT or graduation test scores impacted by these non-English students.

By jim d

January 22, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

Terry,

There actually is a strong movement to make english our offical language.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20070122-010039-8297r.htm

By Susan

January 22, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

If kids are being admitted without immunizations, then it’s because their school’s registrar isn’t doing his/her job. It’s state law that all students must have the immunizations to attend school.

By IC

January 22, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

All of you whiners need to listen up.

“It might well be recalled that the state’s obligations in education are to individual children and youth; these obligations are not to a school system or to educational institutions.” Virgil C. Blum, “Freedom of Choice in Education, NY: The Macmillan Co., 1958

By Guy Pinestra

January 22, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

“I don’t believe in coming to this country illegally, but at least I see that these people do want a better life for themselves and are willing to risk breaking the law to have a better life for their children.”

Does that mean we give amnesty to all the lawbreakers who “just want a better life”? If willingness to break the law for ANY reason is now a virtue, I can truly say that we’re officially through the looking glass.

Back to the subject… On the regional level, is the $200 million a year we’re currently spending actually worth it? Would it be better spent on construction of new schools (which wouldn’t be near as pressing a problem if we had immigration enforcement), teacher raises (which are LONG overdue), seat belts on school buses (a no-brainer if there ever WAS one), or some other worthwhile project?

By DB

January 22, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

Same old topics over and over. Didn’t we beat this one to submission over a year ago? Yawn….

By Pam Hopper

January 22, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

Deja vue! Remember when the public school systems were forced to educate our special needs children back in the late sixties? Nobody wanted to spend money on educating the a-typical student. Didn’t we learn anything from that? Now here we are with an exploding ESOL population that is a-typical and again we are bulking at the expense of educating them. So what that these families don’t pay income taxes, etc., they are not moving back to their own countries. Would you rather have larger slums or productive citizens? I live in Norcross, my children attend the public schools, I have a degree from GA Tech and I am white! Move on folks! Invest in our future generation so that everyone has a greater chance of being ‘less of a burden’ on our society.

By Rick in Lawrenceville

January 22, 2007 01:11 PM | Link to this

National, state, and COUNTY politians need to step up and start solving this problem. Unfortunately, state and country officials pass the buck. They should be complaining BIG time to national officials!

We are paying a HUGE cost in attempting to assimilate all these illegal immigrants. Here we are only looking at the tip of the iceberg with the educational problems being discussed here. People are moving out of our neighborhoods because their children are not getting the proper attention in schools.

How about the other social services? Do we really need 20 million poultry processors and fruit pickers? How is Social Security to survice with the extra burden of these people. They are not working high wage jobs. Low wage earners get the best deal (proportionately to the fees paid into Social Security).

By sleepingbeauty

January 22, 2007 01:29 PM | Link to this

Pam Hooper there is a big difference between children who are developmentally disabled and children who are here in the country illegally. Comparing the 2 is like comparing apples and oranges.

This is a problem that needs to be addressed by our local and state governments, instead of passing the buck to the Federal level.

All this talk and no action isn’t solving the problem. The first and foremost way WE, as the average citizen, can work to resolve this issue is to get out and exercise our right to vote!!!!

By sleepingbeauty

January 22, 2007 01:40 PM | Link to this

Excuse me…..Pam Hopper.

By SET

January 22, 2007 01:43 PM | Link to this

Whatever happened to “No Immunization Records, No Admission”?

Are schools allowing new “students” into the building without documentation? Maybe they are. Somebody let us know what current policy is. Can anyone with a reflection in a mirror (and no health paperwork) show up on the steps of the school and be placed in a classroom?

It wouldn’t surprise me if this is true.

By Ernest

January 22, 2007 01:44 PM | Link to this

Getting back to this question, what’s a school superintendent, principal or teacher to do?, I spoke to one of my school board members about this. They suggested one thing schools could do is to proactively recruit qualified, bilingual teachers and administrators. The point was that we probably will not get an allocation of additional dollars to address these issues. We need to work smarter with the dollars that we have. While this won’t address all the challenges, it can at least help with some of the communication barriers that exist.

What do you guys think about this? SET, did they consider this for LA ISD? How important is it for some of the staffers to ‘look like’ or have the ability to communicate with those they are teaching?

By Ash

January 22, 2007 01:45 PM | Link to this

These are racist and ignorant views. Unless you are the direct descendant of American Indians or native Americans- then your family immigrated once upon a time as well. And they all came here for a better life, to live their lives as they saw fit- whether that be practicing their preferred religion or speaking their preferred tongue.

How dare you all demand that everyone be like you, meanwhile conveniently forgetting the fact that someone in your family made the same sacrifice to come to a strange country to afford you the opportunities you have today? If it weren’t for them making that sacrifice, you would not be in the position to have such a pompus and self-righteous stance on immigration. Why can’t today’s immigrants be afforded the same chance at a better future?

What would the world be like if we were all white, protestant and english-speaking. If that were the case, we would not be the great country that we are today. America is a mixutre of so many beautiful cultures and we should learn to appreciate the fabric of our country, not hate the very roots it was founded on.

It is also unfortunate that you all talk out of both sides of your mouths. You complain that too many of our soldiers are dying in Iraq- a country that cannot settle its ethnic differences, but you are well on your way to making America another country that cannot tolerate the cultural differences of others.

By Truth Filter

January 22, 2007 02:03 PM | Link to this

Re: Immunizations.

Federal law does require that any student who shows up at the door of a public school receive and education and necessary services. If the child doesn’t have immunizations, the school must work with local health departments to make sure the child gets them. This came up a lot during the whole Katrina evacuee thing. A lot of those students didn’t have immunization records (they were destroyed).

By Donna P.

January 22, 2007 02:08 PM | Link to this

If Spanish to English classes are offered then the public schools have to offer Chinese to English, Japanese to English, Korean to English, et al. They cannot exclude ANY languages of the world. If you offer one ESOL class in Spanish, YOU MUST INCLUDE OTHER LANGUAGES TO ENGLISH. The public schools cannot discriminate against ANY race of people.

By Guest Speaker

January 22, 2007 02:12 PM | Link to this

Ash - that is so juvenile.

Our forefathers struggled, but were DETERMINED to assimilate here in America. In other countries, they are not narrow minded - they LEARN it there, THEN come here! Get it? Not the other way around. Illegal immigrants come HERE to the great US of A, then DEMAND that they be allowed to speak another language. “Press 1 for English, Press 2 for Espanol, Press 3 for French, Press 4 for Farsi….”

There are only so many buttons on the phone, Ash.

By Pam

January 22, 2007 02:12 PM | Link to this

Rick in Lawrenceville Your comment “Do we really need 20 million poultry processors and fruit pickers?” is so ignorant! You need to READ these articles: Part one:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009531

Part two:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009535

Part three:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009541

By Commentator

January 22, 2007 02:13 PM | Link to this

My daughters attend a school that is about 40% Hispanic, ergo, about 4 in every kids do not speak English as their first language. Folks, you will never convince me that have that many kids who do not speak or comprehend the primary language of instruction does not impact, and detract, from my girl’s education. Couple that with the fact that most illegals do not pay taxes from which funds for schools are derived and, well, you can probably guess my position on all of this. I don’t know whether the law that requires schools to teach all kids also requires that they provide ESOL instruction as well. If they don’t, the answer may be surprisingly simple… stop teaching ESOL classes. The kids who don’t speak English will have to bust their butts to learn it as quickly as possible, or risk failing a grade or two. If this can be done, perhaps in time those parents who enter the U.S. illegally will either leave their kids with relatives, etc. (harsh, I know) or else do something to make sure that their kids, and hopefully them as well, learn English. For all who will scream racism and prejudice and all the other terms thrown about in this blog, refute this first issue and I’ll discuss from there, and that issue is the illegality of the presence of certain individuals inthe U.S. Imagine someone breaking into your home, and you can’t kick them out. They live in your home essentially rent free, you have to pay to send thier kids to school, pay their medical bills, and, so forth. So, not only are you working to pay your own bills but you are essentially paying their way as well despite the fact they hold a job, are earning money that they do not pay taxes on, and send the majority of their money out of the U.S. (how many of y’all realize that after oil, Mexico’s highest source of revenue is money sent by its citizens living and working here in the U.S.) But, some would say let’s forget about all of that and excuse the fact they broke into your home because its [fill in the blank with whatever bleeding heart reason you choose].

By luvs2teach

January 22, 2007 02:13 PM | Link to this

To SET and others: we aren’t allowed to NOT offer accommodations - it would be against FEDERAL law.

There are several Acts and Supreme Court cases, but the two biggies, as far as schools are concerned are:

“Bilingual Education Acts of 1968 and 1974

Also known as Title VII. Provided supplemental funding for school districts interested in establishing programs to meet the “special educational needs” of large numbers of children of limited English speaking ability in the United States.”

and

“Lau vs. Nichols 1974

The US Supreme Court reaffirmed the 1970 Memorandum regarding denial of access and participation in an educational program due to inability to speak or understand English in a class action suit brought by Chinese speaking students in San Francisco against the school district.”

Since the federal government got us in this mess, how do they propose to get us out?

By Guy Pinestra

January 22, 2007 02:16 PM | Link to this

Ash,

When my immigrant ancestors came to this country, they did so in accordance with the laws of that time. They learned the language, they ‘Americanized’ their names and they rejoiced at BECOMING American citizens. They asked NO ONE for welfare, food stamps, free medical, bi-lingual education or ANY OTHER ‘social benefit’ now being demanded by illegal aliens.

To call people ‘racist and ignorant’ for wanting their laws followed and their country respected only shows how shallow your ‘arguments’ really are. I can stomp all over them and not even make a splash.

In the meantime, with the ever-exploding population of illiterate poor piling into our state, how much will ESOL cost us NEXT year? $250 million? $300 million?

By luvs2teach

January 22, 2007 02:22 PM | Link to this

Ash - I don’t think people on this blog have a problem with legal immigration - people who come to America for a better life - who want to assimilate and be productive parts of society (and by assimilate I don’t mean lose their cultural identity completely - we wouldn’t have fun things like St. Patrick’s Day, Greek festivals, and Cinco de Mayo if we all did that - some may consider that trivial but it’s the best I could think of at the moment).

The problem is that this illegal immigration is costing all of us - it costs us in tax dollars used to educate; it costs us jobs; we risk our health when people come here illegally without immunizations and bringing diseases like TB. These are some of the reason immigration laws are supposed to be in place - to protect the health and well-being of the American citizenry.

I love my ESOL kids - they are some of my best students - and I’m sure that not all of them or their parents are here legally. I wish the system were better.

By Inspired

January 22, 2007 02:34 PM | Link to this

Ash,

Of course, most of our ancestors immigrated here. However, they did it LEGALLY and they ASSIMILATED to the culture. The argument here is about ILLEGAL immigration and the fact they DON’T ASSIMILATE to our culture.

Can you imagine your moving to Mexico illegally and demanding that they assimilate to your language and culture rather than the other way around? After they arrested you for being illegal, they will laugh you out of the country for having the arrogance to demand that your language and culture be recognized.

The posters here aren’t taking pompous and self-righteous stances on immigration - as long as it is LEGAL!!!

By Janine

January 22, 2007 02:51 PM | Link to this

Commentator@2:13 Speaking from a teacher’s shoes, you have no idea how right you are about the impact of these illegal students who speak no English have on your daughters’ education. Racism and ignorance have nothing to do with the fact that our own children’s educations are compromised because our country will not deal with illegal immigration.

By Ash

January 22, 2007 02:55 PM | Link to this

Guest speaker: What’s really juvenile is not knowing your American history.

American Indians are the only ones that have a true claim to the land we call ours. It was stolen from them. Read a history book (those do come in English)

What about all of the immigrants that came through Ellis Island? (That’s a small island in NY- right by the statue of liberty where many immigrants entered America). Immigrants were forced to change their ethnic names to more “American sounding” versions- Johanssen is now “Johnson,” Franke is now Frank. These people weren’t DETERMINED to lose their ethnic identity- they were forced. And now we have people trying to reclaim their ethnic identity and they can’t because they don’t know their family name.

And how do you think we got Little Italy’s in NYC and Chicago or Chinatown? Or Jamaica Queens? These people did not assimilate- they formed their own little communities within American society in attempt to maintain their ethnic identities.

Those first-generation immigrants did not try to learn English- their children felt ostracized by an insensitive American public and denied their ethnic backgrounds to be accepted. As the generations continued- these people “forgot” their ethnic backgrounds.

Furthermore, Americans are notorious world wide for expecting everyone to learn our language- even when we go to other countries! Children on other continents are made to learn 2 or 3 languages at birth, but American children? Nope, they’re told that the American way is the only way. That’s why our kids are missing opportunities to be ambassadors and work international business. Because as parents, we’ve told them it’s okay to only speak English.

And being educated has nothing to do with it. I visited Morocco in summer of 2005 and ran into a poor child on the street begging for food. First, he attempted to speak to me in his native Arabic, then French (the 2nd official language of Morroco). When he still recieved blank looks, he tried English and Spanish (of which I understood both). How amazing for a boy in a 3rd world country to have the ability to communicate fluently in 4 languages, but our privileged, American children our only able to speak one…

Communicating with people of a different culture opens up a world of opportunity to your kids- don’t cheat them because of your self-centered and racist views.

By catlady

January 22, 2007 03:00 PM | Link to this

I’d rather have the children of illegal immigrants than most of the sonny-bubbas we do get! My job is to teach whoever comes in the door, but some of our in-bred, lazy “local” kids make it very hard to keep teaching, especially with the attitudes they learn from their parents. The majority of the Latino kids I teach have parents pushing them to learn, and supporting the teacher, unlike a majority of the “native” kids, at least in our community.

By kitty

January 22, 2007 03:11 PM | Link to this

How about sending illegal parent’s, children, grandparents back to whatever country they come from. Remember, the kids had to get here some way. Can parents be asked to prove citizenship in the USA? Or, if the schools aren’t allowed to ask the parents for proof of citizenship,(either change the rule, or find some place else to check for this) perhaps doctor’s offices, health departments, etc. And I mean, the real thing - social security nos. or proof. I knew someone who worked for a phone company, and many potential customers came in, gave her a social security number, and when the number was checked, around nine times out of ten, the SSN belonged to a deceased person or to some unsuspecting soul whose identify was being utilized.

By lucky

January 22, 2007 03:14 PM | Link to this

Dear Ash,

Brush up on your history - immigrants from Ellis Island received physical exams (and were sent back for even slight orthopedic discrepancies), had to have money after they paid their passage, had to have a sponsor, paid taxes, and received NO public assistance whatsoever. If you drove by their homes, you could not determine whether an immigrant or long term citizen lived there. Their children learned to speak English, as well as the parents, quickly because they loved and appreciated the opportunity to live here, and the taxpayers did not have to pay for this assimilation.

If you think the illegal children are immunized before admission to school, think again. “Although TCA 49-6-5001 requires that students provide proof of immunization before admittance to school, illegal immigrants are routinely admitted without such proof.” http://www.womenforbryson.org/issues.html

I am so sick of the illogical and lame reasoning in favor of these criminal invaders. If you want cultural diversity, then migrate. Don’t chose Mexico, however, because they have strict immigration laws. My children do not need the “world of opportunity” of a different culture. What they need is protection from the third world diseases, crime, drugs and gangs that have been evident from these criminals.

By Ash

January 22, 2007 03:18 PM | Link to this

These people aren’t taking jobs from any of you! How many of you are willing to get up at 4 a.m. to lay concrete or cut grass for minimum wage? How many of you are willing to face constant ridicule and become the butt of jokes because of your inability to speak the language? How many of you are willing to sacrifice your life and way of living to provide a better future for your children? I can assure you, it’s very few. Americans (and I am an American, born and bred) or selfish and self-righteous. That’s why Oprah chose not to build a school in America- our children believe they deserve everything while working for nothing. I’m also an Army brat, so I have great pride in my country, but I’ve also been other places that are not as great. We live in the best country in the world- a country where a man (one that is white and speaks English) can pull himself up by his boot staps and make something of himself. Who are we deny anyone that opportunity?

And while we’re talking LEGAL and ILLEGAL- have none of you broken the law? Stolen something? Cheated on your taxes? Sped up I-75? Those are all illegal and I’m sure all of you have done one or the other- those cost tax payer dollars. I don’t see anyone jumping all over you for these offenses.

Maybe if we all stop being concerned about ourselves and open our minds and hearts to others- they wouldn’t feel the need to isolate themselves from us.

By catlady

January 22, 2007 03:20 PM | Link to this

My understanding is that children without health records have X number of days to get them (30? 60?) and then can be excluded from class until they ar caught up. This affects both groups of kids in pretty equal percentages at our school. Since 90% of our Latino kids are American born, very few come in with no documentation, but we have to take them immediately nontheless. We assign them a “social security number” for ID purposes, and get on with teaching them (just like we do the kids of messed up, drug-addicted, emotionally unstable “native” families.)

What is a superintendent to do? He/she should be trying to support the troops in the line of fire (teachers) with everything he can muster.

Someone further up the food chain SHOULD be addressing this but has failed for decades to do so. So the rest of us are left to pick up the pieces and then PAY for the whole mess (while farmers and biz owners clean up with the cheap labor and “allowing” the taxpayers to pay for health care, etc.)

BTW, illegals pay taxes. At Walmart, no one asks them if they are legal so they don’t have to pay the 7% I pay. If they rent, their landlords charge them for property taxes as part of the rent. If they work for Goldkist, their wages are taxed just like mine are. The ones who avoid some of the taxes are those who do daywork kinds of things, and we should be mad at their EMPLOYERS for cutting corners and letting the rest of us pick up the tab.

By Jeff

January 22, 2007 03:23 PM | Link to this

catlady:

It is official. I am leaving Randolph Schools!

Honestly looking more into computing right now…. half the stress and twice the money! (Plus being able to almost literally write my ticket anywhere I want to move!)

By Jeff

January 22, 2007 03:25 PM | Link to this

Ash:

ANY man (or woman) can pull themself up by their own bootstraps if they work hard enough….

By catlady

January 22, 2007 03:27 PM | Link to this

At our school, children of immigrants comprise almost 20% of the population, yet they win 50% of the awards for grades and citizenship. Their attendance is even better than that. In fact, of the kids monitored by Attendance Support Team, less than 5% are Latino (our immigrant group). They come to school, they work hard, they behave. What’s not to like? Maybe all the cream of the crop illegal immigrant parents choose our area.

By catlady

January 22, 2007 03:31 PM | Link to this

Good luck, Jeff. Shake the dust off your sandals and don’t look back!

Bridgett how about some comments on the article from the AJC about the state using questionable practices in reviewing applications for Reading First? Seems significant, given the amount of damage RF has done….

By lucky

January 22, 2007 03:41 PM | Link to this

So, is that why the principal of Clayton County school got in trouble for threatening to call ICE if the illegal children didn’t start to behave?

Why should we financially support people who are too stupid and too lazy to fix the problems in their own country so break our laws? Try sneaking into Mexico and working illegally under the table.

Illegals do not pay taxes, they mainly support illegal businesses and mostly work under the table or claim a ton of exemptions. How do you think they can afford to have so many children AND have their unmarried brood mare stay home AND send money home?

By teacherlady

January 22, 2007 03:41 PM | Link to this

Speaking as a parent, instead of a teacher, for a moment, I am glad that my children got to experience relationships with children of other races and nationalities. It gives them a world view, and alerts them to the fact that they aren’t citizens JUST of Gwinnett county, but world citizens.

Furthermore, who are we to say that we need them to assimilate to our ways, as if our ways are the only good ones. They are just the dominant ways- doesn’t make them better, per se.

All that being said, it does make it hard on a teacher to meet the needs of such diverse populations, while still being held accountable under No Child Left Behind. It takes a very motivated teacher indeed to structure the class room in ways to help children excel, no matter where they are academically, or how well they speak English. We need more teacher training to equip teachers to face this challenge- then we might not need as many ESL teachers. Teachers really care and don’t really want to send any children away…they just always don’t know how to help all the children at once. But- I will say this, not allowing children in until they speak English will not solve the problem. The children won’t go back to Mexico. They will end up on the streets of America, uneducated and bored. And instead of supporting them in schools, we’ll be supporting them in shelters or in prisons.

By Keith

January 22, 2007 03:47 PM | Link to this

Law should have been changed long ago. Send them home. No child born to non-citizen parents should be considered a citizen even if they are born in this country until they reach the age of 18 and can apply for citizenship.

By jim d

January 22, 2007 03:50 PM | Link to this

All I can surmize from this blog is that the survey’s, that have indicated only about 15% of the people of this nation are non-christian, are nistaken.

By msbrown

January 22, 2007 03:55 PM | Link to this

The quickest way to learn a language is to be totally emersed in the language. That is why in order for a person to get a degree in a foreign language they must spend time in a host language country.

Children who speak another language should have some type of support at first, but after a year or two they should be fluent in English.

Sometimes too much help is not what children need.

Wasting tax money does not begin or end with illegal immigrants.

By luvs2teach

January 22, 2007 03:59 PM | Link to this

Ash - my brother-in-law was a painter - he had his own business. He did lose business because he was undercut in price by painting companies consisting of illegal immigrants - they could charge less because they were paying less. You see this a lot in construction - and those are jobs people would do - it’s a misconception that illegal immigrants are only working in the fields.

And your argument “And while we’re talking LEGAL and ILLEGAL- have none of you broken the law? Stolen something? Cheated on your taxes? Sped up I-75? Those are all illegal and I’m sure all of you have done one or the other- those cost tax payer dollars. I don’t see anyone jumping all over you for these offenses.” is a non-sequitor - it has nothing to do with the situation at hand - my kids constantly try to get out of trouble by pointing out what someone else is doing wrong - that’s not the point.

I don’t object to their wanting a better life for their children - I do object to their doing it on my dime, and at the detriment to my children. I would like to see a better LEGAL immigration system in place - that doesn’t mean I want amnesty.

BTW - I’ve lived in 2 foreign countries - in both places, I tried to do as the natives do - and I spoke their language as best I could. I never expected them to accomodate me.

By mmm

January 22, 2007 04:04 PM | Link to this

Thank you teacherlady.

I intentionally go to a school the is intentionally half immigrant/refugee. My children and I have learned many things from the immigrants and my kids are not suffering academically because of it.

By Stars

January 22, 2007 04:06 PM | Link to this

Ash, chill out. First and foremost, these ILLEGAL immigrants broke the law coming here. Secondly, yes, we all did something illegal in our time and maybe, just maybe, we got caught in the act and paid the price. But to compare speeding on I-75 to the federal offense of illegal immigration is absurd. The point is, yes they want a better life, but should we, as legal American citizens, pay the price for that? The answer is no.

Sure, everyone deserves the opportunity to live in America, but it is a privilege. It is a total insult to the legal immigrants who worked hard, paid taxes and became “americanized” to have the government hold the hands of the illegal immigrants and cater to their wants.

By jim d

January 22, 2007 04:13 PM | Link to this

Myth: Mexican “illegals” pay no taxes, contribute nothing to our society or our economy, then rape our social services systems for free, unearned benefits.

The southwest and California were built in large part by undocumented Mexican immigrants. There was a time when Mexican migrant workers passed freely over the border each season to labor in the Southwest. In that time, Mexicans were an important and welcomed source of cheap labor. At the end of the season, the laborers would return to Mexico. The border was always open for their return, so they had no particular reason to remain in “Alte” California (“Upper” California, as the state was called before the U.S. stole it from Mexico).

Throughout the California Gold Rush, which commenced just months after the U.S. took over California from Mexico, Mexican mule trains were crucial in distributing supplies to mining camps and towns throughout California’s Sierra Nevada mountains. (Incidentally, although the U.S. gave $15 million to Mexico at the close of the Mexican war as a token for the takeover by the U.S. of California, New Mexico and other Mexican provinces, the California Gold Strike produced hundreds of millions of dollars for America, which was equal in value to billions of today’s dollars).

Today, Mexican workers pay sales taxes and work for substandard wages at the s** jobs in the state. Paying illegal workers below minimum wage is very common and results in higher profits for the illegal employer, and therefore higher taxes paid by the employer. End result: worker gets much lower pay (essentially payroll withholding) which results more taxes being paid into the U.S. and State treasuries (due to higher profits for the illegal employers). Many illegal employers know their Mexican laborers are illegal, but nonetheless withhold payroll taxes from their paychecks, and rather than pay those taxes to the government, simply pocket them. Quite often the employer will not realize that the Mexican is illegal, and so will go ahead and withhold payroll taxes and pay them to the government.

Since illegal Mexican workers live in fear of deportation, they rarely seek social services or file for income tax returns for fear of being discovered and deported (the only exceptions are emergency medical care and primary education, the two things too urgent to forgo. It’s no coincidence that California recently passed a law requiring medical care providers and schools to deny services to illegal immigrants - those are the only two social services they use (in spite of the contributions they make to the economy), because those 2 are the only ones they’re willing to risk deportation to use. Justice prevailed - a federal court declared the law unconstitutional).

By jim d

January 22, 2007 04:18 PM | Link to this

Any of you history buffs recall how we got California as a state? who we stole it from? and the amount of wealth gained from stealing it?

(just curious)

By Oz

January 22, 2007 04:25 PM | Link to this

I love these blogs because they bring the bigotry, hatred, and racist views of so many ignorant people. With blogs like this one is easy to believe that Georgia has the second worst educational system - Hey blame this and your ignorance on the illegals too.

I can see that most of you haven’t leave Georgia or the US. Most countries accomodate Americans by hiring peple who speak English in the service industry since we (Americans) believe that every where we go people should be able to speak English.

Here is a concept for your bunch of ignorants: HUMAN CAPITAL. The more you invest in education the more competitive we will become. These so called inferior people (eg. hispanics, illegals, latinos, etc…you never hear about the other nationalities) are part of America, have potential as any human being and many of them are going to become scientists, lawyers, doctors, innovators, etc…making the US stronger and more competitive worldwide.

Every country has a moral obligation to educate its citizens regardless of legal status, race, and ethnicity. A child does not make the decision to come to the US, so why he should be deprived of an education? Is it truly Because he looks different or sound different? What the heck is wrong with you people? Oh no we are compasionate and Christians…LOL. If Jesus reads this blogs some of you are going to have to do a lot of explaining (of courese if you are an evangelical who believes that Jesus is the only way..BLA BLA)

Why everything has to be white and black? Get a grip, in less than 50 years whites will be the minority so get over yourselves and acceptthe fact that you are going to share every aspect of your social life with other races and ethnic groups.

By jim d

January 22, 2007 04:26 PM | Link to this

and a couple of more damn things.

How is it that Mexican immigrants are responsible for all of our economic problems and other troubles, and why all the outrage? To me it bears a chilling resemblance to the way Hitler was able to dupe all of Germany into believing that all their problems were caused by the Jews.

We need to stop being spoonfed our issues by politicians, and stop letting the demagogues push our emotional buttons, and look at the real source of our problems, such as the fact that 50% of what the government collects from us in corporate and individual income taxes is spent on destruction (the military), rather than on building a peacetime social and industrial infrastructure, and a very significant sector of our economy is the “defense” (war) industry, which, unlike peacetime industries, drags down rather than fuels the economy. Why is there no outrage over the fact that the Trident IV first-strike nuclear weapon is still being funded at $300 million a year, when the cold war is long over? Why is there no outrage over the fact that 75% of all international weapons sales are made by the U.S., and 90% of our customers are non-democratic regimes? Why is it that the Mexican worker and welfare mothers are getting all the blame for this country’s problems????

It never ceases to amaze and disgust me to see grown adults blaming Mexican schoolchildren and pregnant women for their economic woes, while monthly Space Shuttle missions costing billions (often on “secret military” missions) are not given a second thought.

By Ash

January 22, 2007 04:31 PM | Link to this

Luvs2teach- That’s great that you learned the language of the countries you were in, but I hope you konw that you’re the exception, because most Americans do not consider learning the language before traveling to another country. We’re known for being loud and ignorant to the customs we encounter. But we expect everyone that comes to America to accomodate us.

And LEGAL vs. ILLEGAL has everything to do with the situation at hand. No one on this blog is perfect- you’ve all broken the law and cost some taxpayer some money. Your illegal act makes you no less innocent than another’s illegal act. Just like when it comes to sin- no sin is worse than the other. Stealing and killing someone is the same in God’s eyes. Who are you to cast stones at someone?

Jeff: pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is a whole lot harder if you don’t look and sound like the majority- don’t think that these people’s struggle mirrors your own.

I’m not naive enough to think that this situation is easy for either party, but I do think that if we step outside of ourselves to evaluate what others are going through we can make progressive changes in our society.

But, face it, the Hispanic population is here, and soon there are going to more of them than there are of us and there’s not too much you can do about it. So, you can either sit around and whine about how much it costs you or you can accept it and move on. Learn Spanish (it’ll make you a more well-rounded invidual). Invite them into your homes and church’s and schools.

If you stop educating immigrant children they will just end up on the street, costing you more money. At least if they’re in school they have the opportunity to succeed. As much as you want to say “send them back” it’s not going to happen. Let it go and let’s get them educated and assimilated so we can all go on with our lives.

By jim d

January 22, 2007 04:36 PM | Link to this

I know some of you bloggers really do have the ability to think so let’s just think this thing through.

The only law most illegal immigrate breaks is crossing the border without papers. From there on it’s the Americans who employee them, the government agencies that accommodate them the do-gooders who pander to them and the public who benefits from their services who break the laws.

Illegals pay every tax and American pays from property to school tax when they pay rent. They pay FICA tax they will never recoup. They don’t pay income tax but neither does an American in the same wage bracket. They pay all taxes equally with American citizens.

Visa, MasterCard and American Express can find someone who owes a penny. Let’s contract Green Cards and Guest Worker programs out to them to assure total accuracy. It’s obvious the government’s incapable of the task.

This argument has been used against the Germans and Polish who came to dig the Erie Canal, the Irish who came to build the railroads west and the Chinese who built the railroads east. There’s no ethnic group who’ve been excluded from the arrogance and bias of the Americans. Racal bias and discrimination are as American as Moms apple pie. They come they work they become Americans and they join the choir of the discontented

The first Catholics arrived in America in 1492. Protestants didn’t come for another 138 years. The Americans pushed shoved and other wise stole their way from Plymouth Rock to Astoria Oregon. Not once did they produce documents issued by the people they invaded granting them permission to be there. On the plus side these new Americans took what natives stepped over and created the greatest nation the world has ever known, success has a thousand mothers failure is an orphan. Is it any wonder these Native North Americans want to come home?

In 1830 Mexico was twice the size it is today. It included Texas New Mexico Arizona Colorado Utah Southern Wyoming Nevada and half of California. 15 years later it was cut in half for a mere 11 million dollars and a gun pointed at the heads of the Mexicans as an additional incentive for them to comply. Mexico didn’t have the foresight to develop the region so perhaps it was only worth 11 Million dollars at the time we’ll never know.

I’m not in favor of illegal immigration, amnesty, open boarders or any of the proposals Congress is putting forth for political gain. I’m in favor of evaluating the situation and passing laws that meet the needs not the politics of the situation. We need a cretin number of guest workers the only way to get them here legally is to change the laws, seal the borders and make it crystal clear to the Mexican government no infractions will be tolerated. If it means limiting trade with Mexico so be it. It’s time to disregard PC, Diplomacy and all the things governments do to co-exist. We need to enforce strong laws that punish all the perpetrators not just the workers. The workers are victims of the system. American public entices them across the border then beats them up when they get here.

By ozzy

January 22, 2007 04:42 PM | Link to this

I love these blogs because they bring the bigotry, hatred, and racist views of so many ignorant people. With blogs like this one is easy to believe that Georgia has the second worst educational system - Hey blame this and your ignorance on the illegals too.

I can see that most of you haven’t leave Georgia or the US. Most countries accomodate Americans by hiring peple who speak English in the service industry since we (Americans) believe that every where we go people should be able to speak English.

Here is a concept for your bunch of ignorants: HUMAN CAPITAL. The more you invest in education the more competitive we will become. These so called inferior people (eg. hispanics, illegals, latinos, etc…you never hear about the other nationalities) are part of America, have potential as any human being and many of them are going to become scientists, lawyers, doctors, innovators, etc…making the US stronger and more competitive worldwide.

Every country has a moral obligation to educate its citizens regardless of legal status, race, and ethnicity. A child does not make the decision to come to the US, so why he should be deprived of an education? Is it truly Because he looks different or sound different? What the heck is wrong with you people? Oh no we are compasionate and Christians…LOL. If Jesus reads this blogs some of you are going to have to do a lot of explaining (of courese if you are an evangelical who believes that Jesus is the only way..BLA BLA)

Why everything has to be white and black? Get a grip, in less than 50 years whites will be the minority so get over yourselves and acceptthe fact that you are going to share every aspect of your social life with other races and ethnic groups.

By lucky

January 22, 2007 04:43 PM | Link to this

jim d,

Where were you the day hundreds of thousands of illegals marched on our State Capital carrying Mexican flags and making demands?

Also, your history is flawed - the US paid the Mexican government for California in the Treaty of Guadalupe, and the citizens have been paying ever since. Fifteen million was quite a sum back then.

Fear of deportation? Please. Go to your nearest welfare office or emergency room or school.

Just ask the family of Deputy Sheriff Lilly how they feel on this issue.

And, I proudly fought for this country to give you the right to state this politically correct drivel. Too bad the criminal invaders are not willing to fight for their rights in their corrupt country.

By jim d

January 22, 2007 04:53 PM | Link to this

Actually lucky I’m correct.

We held a gun to their heads demanding the ceeding of lands in exchange for ending the Mexican-American war which at the time we about to enter Mexico city and kick their a*.

The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was the peace treaty that ended the Mexican-American War (1846–1848). The treaty provided for the Mexican Cession, in which Mexico ceded 1.36 million km² (525,000 square miles) to the United States in exchange for USD$15 million. The United States also agreed to take over $3.25 million in debts Mexico owed to American citizens.

The cession included parts of the modern-day U.S. states of Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, and Wyoming, as well as the whole of California, Nevada, and Utah. The remaining parts of what are today the states of Arizona and New Mexico were later ceded under the 1853 Gadsden Purchase.

The treaty was signed by Nicholas Trist on behalf of the United States and Luis G. Cuevas, Bernardo Couto and Miguel Atristain as plenipotentiary representatives of Mexico. On February 2, 1848, at the main altar of the old Cathedral of Guadalupe at Villa Hidalgo (today Gustavo A. Madero, D.F.), slightly north of Mexico City, it was subsequently ratified by the United States Senate on March 10 and by the Mexican government on May 19; the countries’ ratifications were duly exchanged on May 30, 1848, at the city of Santiago de Querétaro. However, the version of the treaty ratified by the United States Senate eliminated Article 10, which stated that the U.S. government would honor and guarantee all land grants awarded in lands ceded to the United States to citizens of Spain and Mexico by those respective governments. Article 8 guaranteed that Mexicans who remained more than one year in the ceded lands would automatically become full-fledged American citizens (or they could declare their intention of remaining Mexican citizens); however, this Article was effectively weakened by Article 9, written into the treaty by the U.S. Senate, which stated that Mexican citizens would “be admitted at the proper time (to be judged of by the Congress of the United States

By jim d

January 22, 2007 04:56 PM | Link to this

Oh, and Mr. Lucky,

Not sure if anyones ever said thanks so thank you for your sacrifice.I truly do appreciate your having served and fought to uphold the freedoms we enjoy.

Again, thank you.

By RM

January 22, 2007 05:05 PM | Link to this

I agree with SET, have these children attend alternative school until they learn the english language (and become legal citizens, if they are not).

I get frustrated that every time I go to an event at my child’s school in Gwinnett, the “event”, fundraisers, group parent meetings has to be translated. So I stopped going. That adds on at least an extra 15-20 minutes of my time that has to be spent there. Imagine how much time is taken away (WASTED) from english speaking children’s learning experience. At my child’s Open House I asked what foreign language they taught. The reply was “None”, it’s not in the budget. Why can we spend all this money to teach english in America, but can’t teach our children to speak another language. The more advanced countries with education as a priorty does.

It just doesn’t make sense to me.

By lucky

January 22, 2007 05:05 PM | Link to this

Thanks, except it is “Ms” lucky - US Army Nurse Corps and willing and proud volunteer for OCS.

Too bad you didn’t respond to the death of the Deputy Sheriff, and the rest of the thousands of crime and accident victims.

I believe you must be a business owner who is getting rich by exploiting illegals.

By terry

January 22, 2007 05:08 PM | Link to this

Is anyone forgetting that kids born here are now citizens. People misunderstand our laws and subject these kids to prejudice—- Forsyth County is notoriou for prejudice, before it was blacks, not its hispanics, The prejudiced educators here — don’t know a thing about the NCLB act. We have laws in this country but no one is executing them or abiding by them in most school systems. Us parents are willing to expose what goes on here in Forsyth at great risk to our personal lives but it is worth it to make a change for the better.

By Terry

January 22, 2007 05:11 PM | Link to this

It is shameful for any educator to tell anyone to go home or not treat them as an equal. You may think illegals came here illegaly but their children are legal. Grow up and teach them. This is mandated by the NCLB act of 2001. Too bad if you want them to speak English. We don’t have a national language right now. Reach out and encourage them to take advantage of learning english through churches and private organizations. It does not have to be paid for by the schools.

The kids are all getting their immunizations at local health departments — Newsflash — The kids are all up to date. Its sickening that people are so prejudicial against these kids.

By Guy Pinestra

January 22, 2007 05:32 PM | Link to this

ozzy said “Every country has a moral obligation to educate its citizens regardless of legal status, race, and ethnicity.”

How is