Get Schooled

By jim d

January 8, 2007 08:13 AM | Link to this

I must admit I was somewhat puzzled when reading Laura Diamond’s article regarding an upstart teacher’s organization calling themselves the Teachers’ Alliance of Gwinnett (T.A.G.).

Not puzzled over the formation of such an organization but over our Board of Educations reluctance to open a dialogue with a group of employee’s regardless of their numbers or the Boards perception of the need of such an organization, puzzled by Mr. McClure’s assumption that teachers on all of the current advisory committees aren’t hand picked simply because they won’t question any of the board’s actions. Puzzled by what the board has to lose by listening to idea’s that could improve our schools.

As I read this article I must say I became a bit amused at some of the good Dr. McClure’s comments that suggested teachers input is valued by this administration. It brought to mind several teachers like James Hope and Doc Neace, whose input was most definitely not valued. It brought to mind parents that had been put in their place by McClure at board meetings. One in particular came to mind, of a parent that voiced concerns over school safety issues and McClure informed her that if she felt the schools weren’t safe that she should just remove them from the system, rather than addressing the parents concerns. Indeed that input was valued little by the Board.

It then occurred to me why they might be so reluctant to talk to these teachers. They would no longer be able to hide behind the old excuse of “we’re the professionals and you’re not.” And god forbid, they’d have to take some actions to improve things.

I’m actually impressed that teachers have had enough, are tired of having to try to build bricks without straw, and are willing to come forward as the professionals they are, asking to have a say in how education is delivered to our students. Mr. Bissell, I wish you and your organization well.

By WFC

January 8, 2007 09:23 AM | Link to this

I am a recently retired 30-year veteran teacher who was also an administrator for four years. I also have a son in a public high school. I believe that I have a rather unique perspective on educational issues.

I’m pleased to learn of the formation of this new teacher group and wish them well. However, this group and all other groups of active teachers operate under a severe handicap: their careers and livelihoods depend upon the decisions made by the very people they seek to “advise.” In my opinion, this severely limits what they can hope to accomplish.

I’ve been considering the idea of forming a similar group of retired educators who still care passionately about the state of learning in America and who have long experience in dealing with school-related issues. One advantage of such a group would be our independence. We no longer depend on the very people we need to be questioning for “career advancement.” The school systems no longer control our finances. We have long experience in dealing with school issues and a lot of perspective. Does this make sense? If so, e-mail me with comments at: bearcasey@comcast.net.

By teach overseas

January 8, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this

While I fully support such a move by Gwinnett teachers to improve the schools, personally I would be a little wary of publically joining such an organization myself. While firings of “wayward” teachers like Doc Nease are very public, principals have a variety of ammo at their disposal to punish or get rid of teachers viewed as “troublemakers”.

Teachers get “reassigned” to teach the lowest of the low classes, get called up for odious lunch or bathroom duties, get called upon to organize some huge time waster assembly or appointed a chair of some horrible committee that does nothing but waste time and energy. Teachers can lose their classroom and become “floaters” and have to lug their stuff around from room to room all day long, they can be removed from pleasurable student activites like the Beta Club or Student Council. And then there is the gereral harassament like having the principal in your room all day writing down everything you say or requiring weekly lesson plans be submitted for approval and review.

All of these and more serve not only to punish teachers who speak out or cause problems, but also as a warning to those who might be thinking about it.

JimD- you might call some of us cowards, but most of us really like our jobs and have worked hard to get there and frankly, we need the paychecks just like everyone else. Long term teachers have seen principals, supers and a variety of “inititives” or “programs” come and go. For the most part, our days are so much more pleasant if we just come in, close the door, do our jobs and fly under the radar.

I wish these teachers all the luck in the world- I think they are going to need it.

By Teacher Teacher

January 8, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

A great organization to join is MACE. See their website.

By luvs2teach

January 8, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

I understand the reluctance perfectly - when the AJC first had comment pages, you had to use your real name. I commented on a highly controversial issue and ended up being subpoenaed to testify in court. The lawyers found me by reading through pages and pages of the AJC comments - two years after I originally posted them!

Yes, I am reluctant to have my real name out there - unless I’m getting teacher of the year or something!

By Jeff

January 8, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Ladies and Gents:

I am actually working with TAG to create their website. I HOPE to have it up at the end of the month. When I do, I will post the link here.

I’m not saying it will be fancy… as a matter of fact, my designs are inherenly as simple and easy to use as possible… but it will get the word out about them.

By SET

January 8, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

There is a saying: *Worker’s Of The World Unite”.

The teachers probably think they are a “profession” so they should be above certain things such as collective bargaining. I’ve got new for them. They have become factory workers of the Brave New World. They’d better start acting like factory workers. That means organizing and learning the weapons of passive resistance and propaganda.

And people think I’m conservative! I think I am, I just am tired of workhourses being sold to the glue factory - sticking their heads out of the truck on the final drive and saying “what happened?”

The teachers had better learn to play rough. That means being just as politically ruthless and treacherous as any school administration you might have to work for. No one is going to give you (or the kids) anything. You can just look and see the state of the public schools. If you want improvements you’ll have to make them happen yourselves. That means you get political - just like Nancy Pelosi.

By SET

January 8, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

Pardon the spelling… Mondays…

By Rob Smith

January 8, 2007 02:17 PM | Link to this

Read about this Real Estate Consultant to Atlanta Public Schools and their ethics Red Rock Global in Atlanta at the following link:

http://redrockglobal.blogspot.com/

Thanks,

By jojo

January 8, 2007 02:39 PM | Link to this

In response to SET I don’t think this just applies to public school employees but to private care employees as well. I used to work for a private for-profit care facility with pre-school and I am licensed to teach through the state. Not to long ago, teachers had to sign a document stating that we would not in any way disclose any info. that could affect their company. Examples included blogs, myspace, emails, facebook, discussions with professionals, discussion on professional sites, discussions with other teachers, college instructors, and parents. Some types of discussion examples were advice for problem behaviors, examples of behavior, instructional guidance for students with special needs, curriculum questions, and facility licensing questions. We could be disciplined or could lose our jobs for violating this contract. I can understand confidentiality concerns but I felt this went just a little too far! Any questions, concerns, problems, etc must be taken directly to the admin. of the building. We were not allowed to come to meetings with parents and Admin to voice concerns either. I questioned this document especially the part about discussions with other professionals and meetings. Others teachers didn’t want to create any noise about it, I could understand, they could lose their jobs if they didn’t sign it. I resigned from my position not long after for this and many other reasons. I am a professional and I think that I could determine what is considered a professional discussion and if there is a problem I think it is the responsibility of the teacher to voice that problem. So I am no longer working for this company.

By Rob Smith

January 8, 2007 02:46 PM | Link to this

I too support TAG… In order for TAG to be effective it must have lots of members from every School in Gwinnett County. You can pick on 1 or 2 teachers in your School very easily but it is a lot harder to do with 20 or 30. TAG needs to have an intensive Recruiting and Publicity drive. Using Direct Mail when financially feasible. The TAG Website should be posted to the GCPS.blogspot.com as well. TAG should be listened to I find it amazing how closed minded The Gwinnett County School Board is… They won’t listen to TAG, Blog Commenters, their former CFO. They appparently will only listen when the parents and voters of Gwinnett County have had enough!!!

The Media must help by staying on their case as well…

Dr. McClure is very Arrogant to say the least but doctors are known to have bigs egos generally and he apparently is no exception!

By holdingAJCaccountable

January 8, 2007 02:53 PM | Link to this

Re: “It will be interesting to see how many teachers in the state’s largest school system sign up. Then maybe we’ll know just how much the organization was needed.”

If that’s a criteria of the need of an organization (and it seems perfectly valid to me) then MACE is definitely filling a need, as it is spreading through Georgia like a veritble Civil Rights’ movement for teachers. I would urge anyone to read the inauguration speech of MACE Field Director/incoming Clayton County School Board member Norreese Haynes. It is no less than a Gettysburg Address for what ails education. At last, someone in a position to affect change “gets it” and is willing to do something about it.

By Lisa B.

January 8, 2007 03:07 PM | Link to this

Rather than start up yet another teachers’ organization, I think it would be far more effective if Georgia teachers united as ONE organization. If teachers speak out in ONE voice, we may finally win collective bargaining rights and experience true power over our careers.

By SET

January 8, 2007 04:47 PM | Link to this

I’ve given this some more thought… Can the teachers in GA actually manage to get recognition and respect professionally? (Drawing on college years of Economic History and Applied Economics…)

No, they can’t.

In order for service providers to be taken seriously, they must be critically rare and/or their clients must be high status clients who’s needs must be met. This is why the FL and CA Nurses are so happy. The Pharmacists aren’t doing badly either. Cops around here are making 6 figures in their mid 20’s (bars to entering the profession and working in priority fields).

The Children of GA public schools are most likely no-status clients who’s needs mean little to the powers that be - This is why your public schools are in such disarray. If the students have no value, the service providers likewise have no value. Therefore the teachers can be treated like the Horse in the story Animal Farm. Worse, it’s a relatively open profession unlike CA CPAs where only 20% or so pass the licensing exam.

This is why Teachers are treated better as you move from Public HS, to Jr. College, to State College, to State University. The “clients” have higher status, the most senior being the students at the professional schools. Thus the Teacher status, treatment, pay and benefits differ accordingly.

Trying to organize and demanding better treatment would appear to be futile. As long as the givernment actually holds the client Public School students and their families in low regard, no concessions will be given the teachers.

The best solution is for the teachers to move on to the most attainable job with higher status clients. Say, Jr. College Instructor.

The only way to get fast relief is to impose a state licensing exam to be a teacher that flunks all but a tiny % of the minority applicants… (We did something like this in CA with the California CBEST exam - See http://www.dailyrepublican.com/cbest_test.html ).

Once licensed teachers are fought over you might be treated a little better.

Remember, there’s more than one way to skin a cat - or whatever the saying is. Move indirectly. Use the state legislature, trade guild tactics, lots of campaign contributions and you can also become as powerful as the CA Teachers Association.

By thomas

January 8, 2007 05:09 PM | Link to this

Teach Overseas is right: Teachers who speak out (rock the boat), get “blacklisted” and put on the principal/admins craplist. Think about it: You can be incompetent and still keep your job. Question the insanity taking place at your school and you’re gone.

I don’t know anything about this TAG group in Gwinnett, but it sounds to me like it will be as effective as a online blog.

Go back and read Teach Overseas message— He/she is telling you exactly how these principals operate. They operate through harassment and intimidation. Some of these people working in education are pure wicked. I could tell you some things I have seen that would make you blood curdle.

By Jeff

January 8, 2007 05:18 PM | Link to this

Rob:

If you have suggestions for publicity for the TAG website, hit me up at ajc_jeff@yahoo.com

I think the TAG email (until I get the site set up) is tagwhiterose@yahoo.com

As far as the website goes, while I am primarily listening to the organization itself as to what it wants out of the site, I am ALWAYS open - on ANY site I operate - to people’s comments on things they would like to see/ things to improve upon. The perfect site to me is one that is as easy as possible to naviagate, loads as fast as possible, and has any content that the organization wants released. (Obviously I won’t go against the client’s wishes, same as I wouldn’t put any proprietary corporate secrets on a company’s page for all to see!!)

Jeff

By JustMe

January 8, 2007 05:33 PM | Link to this

A few comments about what posters are saying….

IMHO, the problem is largely with teachers that say nothing up front and will later complain behind closed doors. I think that most (not all) administrators do try to make the best decisions, but they do not know everything. Approaching them tactfully is the key.

By Jeff

January 8, 2007 05:53 PM | Link to this

JustMe:

Yeah, I’m very outspoken as well… not always good for 1st years! But I tend to approach it with two attitudes, one good, one not so good:

The worst they can do to me is force me into computing. In computing, I will be putting in similar overall hours for roughly double the pay. (Maybe not starting out - even though that is almost a garaunteed $10,000 raise - but I can hit $70K or more a LOT faster in computing than education!)

I follow all orders I am given, whether I like them or not. I’m a weird civilian in that too much military doctrine has been drilled into me, and that is one of the major aspects. I may be EXTREMELY vocal and hot about things I am ordered to do, but I will do them. (Though I quite often let others know what is going on, usually without my superiors’ direct knowledge….)

Overall, I WANT to like whereever I happen to be working, and I am both easy to please and vocal about what administration can do to keep me contented. (Maybe not overly happy, but not having to go out and chop down trees either!) As a matter of fact, right now I am actually settling for continued use of my SMARTBoard and complete control of my non-math class. I’m letting Admin take over my math class, and honestly it is going smoother than I thought it would, though I am still not overly pleased with it. But they’re being good about letting me keep my two issues, so I’m content. (FAR better than the absolute misery 1st semester ended in!)

By holdingAJCaccountable

January 9, 2007 08:21 AM | Link to this

I think you could take jim d’s premise and apply SET’s solution and maybe make some progress. jim d’ is right about the cowardly nature of teachers, but teachers are right about not wanting to fight when the odds of annihilation are high. SET’s idea of learning “passive resistence” could solve that. They problem, I dare say, is the cowardly nature of teachers lead them to act like sheep going to slaughter…in other words, they act stupid. How else to explain why teachers have made GAE and PAGE the two largest educators’ organizations in Georgia? Knowing what you know about what teachers face, you join an organization that, because it allows administrators to join as well, by it’s very nature cannot support you as a teacher? Then you compound that mistake by telling your fellow teachers about the “teacher union” you are in when it is nothing of the sort? Yet the one teacher organization (teachers only, memebership confidental so you don’t face retaliation) out there to really support you, you let others deride as “radical”? I’m talking about MACE. And yes, by advocating a return to discipline and that teachers actually have real empowerment, they are indeed “radical”. And the fact that we define such as “radical” shows how FUBAR we have become. Teachers might want to consider this when they decide which “teacher union” to join. At least be educated enough to know what each organization stands for and what they can and can not do to empower you as a teacher.

By meme

January 9, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Want to know why many teachers join GAE and PAGE? We join for the insurance coverage.

By catlady

January 9, 2007 05:30 PM | Link to this

The formation of TAG falls under the definition of HIGH TIME, IMHO, from the outside looking in. My county will never have anything similar—too much fear on EVERYONE’s part. I suspect if we had a stronger set of private schools, there might be more willingness to speak out on the incredibly poor decisionmaking/policymaking that is going on where I live. Teachers are terrified to speak out, except privately, for the reasons mentioned above, plus this is a small community. If you lose your job, EVERYONE knows. So we rock on, not using the considerable skills and experience that a high percentage of the teachers have, while kowtowing to every diploma-mill/limited experience administrator you can imagine.