Get Schooled

By Jeff

January 2, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Amen Bridgette. Keep it clean, and I don’t mind taking my lumps.

There have been those that are displeased with the way you have run this blog, but I honestly think you are doing a good job and certainly putting forth the effort. Thank you.

By Janis Ian

January 2, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

I like what you’ve done a whole lot more than what preceded you! You say you’re surprised at the “meanness” from educator to educator. Well, go into the schools, sweetie, and have your eyes opened. Typically, in any school, you’ll have two camps of teachers who go at each other in very unprofessional ways. The groups: the sycophants/chosen ones of the administrators and all the others. (Another group would be, if you were in DeKalb, would be based on race. You figure it out, or, better yet, I’m sure Ernest can for you and for everyone else. THERE. The first bit of meanness for the new year!)

By luvs2teach

January 2, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

Actually, Janis, she didn’t say she was surprised by the meanness from “educator to educator” - she said “posters” - many of whom are not teachers - I’d say the mix is typically 50/50 overall, of course day to day it depends on the topic (some are more teacher relevant, others more parent-friendly).

I don’t teach in Dekalb, so I can’t say, but at both of my schools, filled with a diverse staff, I have seen little of what you describe - and in my pre-teaching, real-world-of-work life, I saw plenty of brown-nosing and favoritism. If the culture of a workplace fosters that, then it is a poor management issue, whether it’s a school, another government agency, or a private company. If you read magazines like Working Woman they often have articles about how to deal with this type of thing in the workplace - and their audience isn’t typically educators.

Please, regarding your private issue with Ernest, in the spirit of the new year, let it go.

As far as my postings go, I can’t say I’m perfect - I KNOW I’m long-winded -I certainly know I get defensive. I try not to insult, but if I think someone is wrong, I will express myself. Since I am both a parent and a teacher (and since teaching is my second career, I have more experience as a parent) I have a lot to say. I do make it my personal mission to dispel myths about the profession - I do tend to get a little prickly there, LOL.

Happy New Year!

By jim d

January 2, 2007 01:38 PM | Link to this

Guilty as charged!

I tend to forget how others may perceive some of my comments. So, although many of the issues we discuss are emotional issues that tend to bring out the worst in all of us, I will make an honest effort to be less offensive to other posters regardless of how wrong they are.

Anyone taking bets on how long that’ll last?

Happy New Year, All.

;-)

By Jeff

January 2, 2007 01:49 PM | Link to this

Jim:

My bet is that it ends as soon as the next emotionally charged topic! :)

Just messing with you, friend.

Happy new year to you as well!

By jim d

January 2, 2007 02:00 PM | Link to this

I will say this though.

After watching some of the petty pickering that goes on here it becomes abundantly clear why the GCPS BOE feels compelled to vote in unanimity on every issue.

By Sick&Tired

January 2, 2007 02:00 PM | Link to this

Amen Bridgett and I plan to set an example. However, I would like to thank you for brining up the subject. It’s been a huge concern of mine and has often kept me from entering the conversation.

Also, we should note, that even people who have great arguments, like to ridicule and degrade others on this blog.

I want solutions, without degrading people based upon income level, married/unmarried, suburbs versus inner city and IQ levels.

It would be great, if we could start 2007 off with a discussion on REAL solutions that will help all children.

Just to show good faith, I’ll change my Blog Name from Sick&Tired to Hope2007.

By jim d

January 2, 2007 02:01 PM | Link to this

You could be right Jeff!

If I were you, that’s where I’d put my money.

By Stacey

January 2, 2007 02:14 PM | Link to this

Good afternoon Bridget…Thanks for the warning about rules enforcement. I think it’s a shame that we can’t all govern ourselves at all times but sometimes the conversations get rather heated and the barbs turn personal.

BTW, I’m not a teacher. I am a parent of a kindergarten student and a lot of this “new-fangled” school stuff is foreign to me. I love having a forum where I can find hear the opinions teachers and other parents. Often, someone else explains it in a way that makes me rethink my position and other times I’ve concluded that(I think it’s jim d)is right and “the monkeys really are running the zoo”.

Happy New Year Everyone!

By SET

January 2, 2007 02:43 PM | Link to this

Sick & Tired/Hope 2007:

I’m wondering exactly what you mean by the comment about people “degrading” other people based on (whatever criteria).

One of the things that appear when some in public discourse are losing their policy arguments is the feeling and expression that they or their constituents are being debased because someone opposing their policy debate has made accurate remarks to illustrate the policy argument in progress. Such as all people are not created equal and the public schools must to educate or train (for work) all people, bright and dull. Not just indoctrinate them with political dogma that won’t enable them to feed and clothe themselves.

I make no apologies if on occasion I make statements that carve up a sacred cow to make my point that policy needs to be changed. But it’s not my intent to make personal insults to anyone (especially real individuals) and I have left a subject on occasion when a point has been made rather than continue dialog that’s merely personal or emotional.

We are here (I think) to debate policy and potential changes in the public schools - or to give an atta boy on occasion when good work is done.

We are not here to give or receive love, but I agree with AJC’s policies about avoiding the catcalls and namecalling. If I slip, I expect I’ll be reminded so by the readership! Love the feedback!

But don’t think the above means that your sacred cows are safe. I like BBQ.

The odd thing is that some people have been expressing agreement on some things I’ve commented on. What is the world coming to when I’m getting mainstream??

Happy New Year to all.

By jim d

January 2, 2007 02:49 PM | Link to this

Dear S&T—-Err, ah – “Hope”

Finding answers here is difficult at best because many teachers and parents oppose any and all change. Not that I blame them since politicians and administration tend to make changes just for the sake of change.

But Solutions can only be found if we are willing to keep an open mind,—not so open that everything falls out, but open enough to explore new ideas, and, sadly, I don’t see that happening on either side of the table.

But we can certainly continue to “hope”

By Janine

January 2, 2007 03:12 PM | Link to this

Happy New Year,Bridget and all! I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s ideas/opinions on issues that arise in 2007 as well as old ones. L’Chaim!

By jim d

January 2, 2007 03:27 PM | Link to this

Bridget,

I just can’t help but ask if the rules for this blog are the same as for Wootens “in your face bloggers” on the Thinking Right blog?

Seems our blogging is rather mild in comparison

By Jeff

January 2, 2007 03:45 PM | Link to this

jim:

Amen to that! I’ve recently gotten re-involved over there (though as of tomorrow I will stop for a couple of months again!), and they are VICIOUS! It’s sad, too… when we started that blog, we at least TRIED to keep it civil!

BTW: DId you notice his reference to me in the topic yesterday? Was kinda cool and VERY weird…. guess I’ll have to get used to that level of attention if I stay in education, because before long I WILL be a news item. It is very nerve-wracking the twists my career is taking…. this could prove to be both a pivotal and interesting year.

By Blind Homer

January 2, 2007 03:58 PM | Link to this

Wow, the I’m okay, you’re okay, we’re all okay rules of kindergarten have now made it all the way to the blog. That approach is certain to facilitate honest debate. May I suggest we also use “consider facts and feelings” as a norm for the group?

By Lola

January 2, 2007 04:18 PM | Link to this

Happy New Year, All!

I think it would be wonderful to keep things civil here at all times, but that is probably not possible. I think sometimes it isn’t possible to maintain a friendly banter when the views of some posters are so completely opposite of the majority who post here.

Also, I’ve noticed a propensity of some of the teachers who post here to almost “look down” on those of us who aren’t teachers, and to pass off our opinions as silly. Yet many Americans think our country’s state of education is an important topic and something that all people, not just educators, have a vested interest in improving.

I know most teachers and educators are passionately opposed to vouchers and school choice, but many of us on the outside see that only as a reflection of the Union mentality, and the worry that some educators wouldn’t be able to make the grade, if they were forced to compete and accoutable for the results. Our children are the main concern of Americans, not your job security. Especially for those of us who work in the corporate world and are judged (and employed) based on our daily performance, seeing the kind of tenure and job security offered to educators seems not only unfair, but downright illogicial. What inspires people to excell if they are not held accountable for the job they do?

In the spirit of good debate and friendly exchange, I promise to never attack someone personally on this blog, and will do my best not to incite aggression from others.

While I refuse to put on the false mask of being politically correct in my statements and postings, and do tend to be blunt, I will keep an open mind towards all opinions that differ from my own. That is my Get Schooled resolution for 2007.

By luvs2teach

January 2, 2007 05:14 PM | Link to this

Hi, Lola, and Happy 2007!

In the interest of my continued pursuit of dispelling myths, I must comment on the “union mentality” and reference to “Tenure and job security” - Georgia does not have a union, nor do we have tenure. I’m not sure which educators you know but most of my friends and colleagues would be for school choice - if we got more choice as well. I would love to work in a science-focused school, for example. I would love to have more choice within the school and within the curriculum, too - for example, a school I reference often is Brown Barge Middle School - they have a unique program of “streams” that the students choose each year. The teachers also get to choose which streams to teach.

I find that the voucher issue is a strange one. Pro- and anti- don’t seem to follow any particular party or occupation - if I had to guess, most pro-voucher folks seem to be those who are footing the bill for private schools. I don’t like vouchers, but it’s not because I’m a teacher; it’s because I don’t think the plan would work. I would rather see all schools go private.

Most teachers you talk to will tell you that we don’t have an issue with accountability. What we have an issue with is being accountable for things out of our control. To look at it from a “real world” perspective, imagine being a production manager, and you were told that you would be accountable for the quality of your product. However, you have no control over the raw ingredients your company is purchasing (which happen to be substandard, BTW). You do the best you can in production with the substandard material - some of the product actually turns out OK. Is the susbstandard product your fault, and should you get a pay reduction or be fired because of it?

Meanwhile, another manager happens to get a better quality of raw materials - luck of the draw - he’s no more talented than you, and you know for a fact he doesn’t work as hard as you do. Yet, because of his superior raw materials, he turns out a better quality of product and gets a bonus!

While I’m probably biased, I don’t think that the teachers here look down on the non-teachers - not when they are posting things that are valid contributions and offer good insight - I have actually changed some of what I do due to things I read on this blog. However, we are probably a little intolerant (I know I am) of the regular barrage of insults to the profession as well as uninformed myths about the profession being touted as fact (examples: teachers are only in it for the time off, or we are all like-minded thinkers in a lock-step mentality).

We absolutely agree it’s a critical area. You might be surpised to know that most of us “in the trenches” have as much, if not more, disdain for the educratic policy wonks that the general American public.

We also agree that more than just educaotrs have a vested interest in the situation. My crusade right now is to get business folks more involved as well as community leaders. Communities need to be involved in cleaning up crime-ridden areas and creating desirable housing. If you build it they will come…it’s not just a movie line anymore.

And no offense to the general corporate world (which I was a part of), but it’s not immune to the same worker-bee mentality - look at “Dilbert” and “The Office” for some pop-culture examples, as well as the study that showed the average office worker spent 2 hours goofing off - indeed, I wish I had 2 hours for that!

Lola - I hope that didn’t come off badly - it was meant in the spirit of debate ;-)

BlindHomer - it’s fun when we all disagree and bring our arguments to the table, but you’ve got to admit it’s no fun when trolls appear and just toss insults with no real substance. A well-crafted rebuttal beats an immature trollish response any day of the week, IMHO.

Jeff and jim d - Wooten’s blog scares me, LOL! Actually, I find it interesting, but I have to dig deep among the muck to find the real responses - and Jeff, that was YOU?

By WhatWillBridgetDo?

January 2, 2007 05:21 PM | Link to this

What will Bridget do? Apparently nothing. Your predecessor correctly named discipline as the number one issue facing schools today, yet you deride anyone who advocates for it with comments like “ironic behavior when you consider how many parents and teachers here lament the discipline problems in schools.” Right after that you claim that “other readers will be far more impressed by how you articulate and defend your arguments if you leave out the schoolyard foolishness.” If you’re going to make a statement like that, is it not fair that you lead by example and “articulate” your own stand? Your predecessor promised a follow up to what possibly was falsified discipline data. What is your stand on the issue? Do you not think it is worthy of being followed up? Why or why not? Do you think the AJC’s coverage of the discipline issues has been adequate? Why or why not? Practice what you preach, and have the courage of your convictions to speak out on this issue, just like your predecessor did. Otherwise, your words about the decorum on this site remain hollow and empty.

By SET

January 2, 2007 05:23 PM | Link to this

If the Wooten Blog is that good, I’m going to have to drop in on them. Do you think I’d like it??

By Jeff

January 2, 2007 05:35 PM | Link to this

luvs:

I agree COMPLETELY with your last comment, and wish I could have put it that nicely!

And yes, that was me. “…Jeff, the Southwest GA math teacher…” I generally leave out the “west” part and just say “South GA”, but many of you know my general location anyway, and some of you know exactly where I teach (though not because I knowingly put it here on the blog).

OK, I’m working on grading (on my last day of freedom for 7 weeks or so)… and I’m ALREADY miserable… NOT looking forward to dealing with the students starting Thurs! (and, truth be told, I not much more excited about going to work tomorrow!)

Y’all have fun!

By Jeff

January 2, 2007 05:36 PM | Link to this

SET:

Go for it. There are many that won’t like you, but there are a few that will. Besides, as of this afternoon I’m effectively off of it for about 7 weeks!

By jim d

January 2, 2007 05:38 PM | Link to this

Set,

Indeed, and more importantlt it’ll like you. ;-)

By luvs2teach

January 2, 2007 05:52 PM | Link to this

Ha - my New Year’s Resolution should be to limit my posts to three paragraphs or less!

It never seems like that much when I’m typing and on a roll…

Jeff - you hang in there!

By catlady

January 2, 2007 06:46 PM | Link to this

Luvs, thanks for your great, and, like usual, positive response to Lola. Sometimes we do come off as looking down our noses. Sometimes someone offers up what seems to be a naive or seemingly-uninformed opinion that should be challenged or advised by the experience by someone who has “been there”. We also get (and give out) a lot of Aunty Em stories here, wanting to extrapolate from our experiences to a general rule. That said, I think the diversity of experiences, insights, and understandings is a real plus to this blog, and after several forays into Wooten’s blog, I appreciate this one all the more. Hard to believe that he “operates” under the same rules, huh?

I learn something at least 5x a week on this blog, or I am required to think/rethink my position on a topic, based on the input of those on this blog. I am thankful to each of you.

My wish list for the new year: could the blog topic be posted by 6 am so it could be under consideration before the normal workday starts?

By Lisa B.

January 2, 2007 08:32 PM | Link to this

I’ve learned a lot from the posts on this blog, and look forward to 2007. I enjoy the debates, and some of the more controversial and passionate arguments have shaped my personal opinions to the greatest degree. I appreciate the time people take to read this blog and share their thoughts.

Happy New Year!

By KA

January 2, 2007 08:58 PM | Link to this

Happy New Year Y’all! Yes ma’aam Bridget, we’ll be good, that is, until someone pushes a button. I have also tried to join Wooten’s blog a mass of stinging nettles and sharp barbs, but not the sharp wit, and informative rhetoric from our widely varied and experienced minds that particpate here in Get Schooled. I agree with SET that sometimes our discussions get spirited and we have to tell it like it is. We have lots of disagreements. But it is in our discussing these disagreements that we learn from each other. Thanks to all of you for many hours, days and months of learning, laughs and aggravation. I love it!

By mmm

January 3, 2007 09:10 AM | Link to this

Actually the best form of policing is for the “community” not to take the obvious bait.

And while we have varied and different takes on various topics, I think that there are a good many folks who will either change their mind or discover that often the differences are ones of semantics or the relative importance placed on competing good or bad options.

I’ve read some of the other blogs and find the posters here to be more articulate and thoughtful than the other blogs.

By Ernest

January 5, 2007 04:41 PM | Link to this

Happy New Year to All! Just getting back from a little ‘R&R’ so I’m late with posting.

I participate in a LOT of blogs and this one is the most civil one of all. For the most part, we can disagree without ‘attacking’ the poster but concentrate on what we disagree with. IMO, we are definitely at a higher level than other blogs.

I look forward to continuing our discussions/debates in 2007.

By KA

January 5, 2007 05:49 PM | Link to this

Ernest, Happy New Year to you too!