Skin Color: Will It Always Matter?

By jim d

November 30, 2006 08:32 AM | Link to this

WOW GREAT TOPIC Bridget, and one that’s sure to draw many comments.

You Rock Girl!

Yes, skin color will always matter to some. Both black and white.

Separate but equal can not nor will it ever be accomplished in public education. Here’s why.

Our public educational system has, since Brown vs. Board, attempted to level the playing field. In their most recent efforts, under NCLB they have “closed the gap” but let’s look at how they are accomplishing this.

Prior to NCLB, 13 percent of the nation’s black eighth-grade students and 41 percent of white students were “proficient” in reading. This is an achievement gap of 28 percent.

After three years of NCLB, eighth-grade white students’ reading proficiency dropped to 39 percent (a two percent decrease), while black students’ reading proficiency dropped to 12 percent (a one percent decrease). This is an achievement gap on 27 percent, a one percent decrease.

The question becomes whether or not closing the gap through a legislated trend toward illiteracy is actually for the good of the country?

There was a great piece done on this last Sunday in the NYT magazine. It’s rather lengthy but well worth the read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/magazine/26tough.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

By KA

November 30, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this

A focus on integration/segregation is a distraction to the real problem, which is Poor Parenting. Reading is the key to success in school, and poor reading skills always leads to poor performance. Poor Readers are the product of Poor Parents who don’t read to their children, don’t teach them pre-reading skills, don’t work with their children when they start school, don’t enforce good attendance or model good behavior, and don’t make sure their children are progressing. No matter what the ethnic background, skin color, or socio-economic status, student success in school starts with good parenting, which must continue through high school. Legislating integration or segregation does not address the root problem, the parents. Get the parents attention; train them to work with their children to enable them to be successful with reading skills, homework skills, social and behavior skills.

By DebbieDoRight

November 30, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this

Skin color shouldn’t matter, but it does, since this is a fact, it is also a fact that there is no such thing as “separate but equal”, (remember hurricane Katrina when journalists who saw blacks wading through water with a garbage bag of items “pillagers”, but whites “survivors?). Unfortuantely I don’t think Americans will ever learn to appreciate the notion that all men are really created equal.

By JustMe

November 30, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this

As long as “neighborhood schools” exist, there will be a race issue. Why? Because there are socioeconomic barriers in our society that still exist regarding race, therefore the neighborhoods are rarely racially mixed.

Without considering race for school make up, we will be “forcing” a cycle to repeat itself with every generation.

By KA

November 30, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this

Deb, In your example, wasn’t the problem the MEDIA, not the general population? Katrina affected people of all colors, and people of all colors from all over the county came to their aid. I stopped watching TV news, because the media is not reporting the news; they are interpreting, editing and presenting their own slanted views.

By DebbieDoRight

November 30, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

True — but the “media” is only reinforcing some, (not all), of american’s opinions or thoughts, that’s how they can say things like that in the first place.

By the real EW

November 30, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

Great topic! Skin color will always matter; this is a fact of life. Just how we are as human beings. It is unfortunate.

In the early 80’s, I was one of the lab rats for the APS - M to M busing program. I was bused from Southwest Atlanta, and went to Sarah Smith, Sutton, and Northside in Buckhead. I understood right then and there — it was a difference. However, the more I think about it, was it just the neighborhood of upper socioeconomic people (who happen to be white) supporting the school? What was it really? Race or Money or are both so interrelated that you cant separate them … I think about this often.

My third grader is in a really good South Fulton school, I guess the area is now considered to be affluent, however I feel the parent participation is still not what it needs to be to make it a Sarah Smith, or a Morningside. I haven’t figured out why. A thought is that this community is working so hard to retain the materialistic things that they miss out or don’t have the time or take time to be part in the education of the children.

And while I tremendously benefited from the experience – (I traveled to foreign countries I could only dream of in middle and high school) and I promise you Therrell High School students weren’t and still aren’t doing that, I really wonder if the integration of the educational system has benefited the masses of African Americans. (Don’t jump on me – just thinking). I guess I question, because I have been in two environments - one suburb (mixed) however it was a battle, because I believe that the faculty – (majority –Caucasian) didn’t understand the type of children (race, socioeconomic) they were being forced to deal with. There is a huge learning curve for both the faculty and students in that instance, I was told by one parent, I was the first African American teacher that the student had ever had, and she didn’t know how to “deal” with me??? However, now I’m in an inner city all African American school, and staff – and I see how we treat each other and respond, and sometimes I’m so sad and angry. I just don’t know the answer for this one, but I’m sure it will be around long enough for my kids to try to answer as well.

By tam

November 30, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this

I’m african-american and I had this discussion with a white person. She admitted something that was so profound. She grew up in a community where the all-white school joined the all-black school to integrate. She said that although they integrated, the blacks were still forced to lose their culture. When schools integrated, the mentality “white is right” was the predominate mentality. We as African-Americans lost ourselves and that has continued to carry over. I don’t think everything is the school system’s fault, or parents, or society. It is a combination of all these things. We must be honest and look at ourselves also. We are to blame. When was the last time the African-American community celebrated educated African-Americans. We celebrate athletes, stars, etc… there is no pride in getting an education anymore. The younger generation even seems to resent educated African-Americans. Keepin it real means using slang and acting ignorant, not “acting white” and “talking white”. We have to establish a sense of pride in ourselves again and stop buying into what everyone else is telling us about ourselves. Think back in history, slaves risked their lives in order to learn how to read! How hard is it to get a young child to pick up a book today. Slaves had nothing, but they desired to be more. A lot of us have lost the desire. We know what obstacles we have overcome. How is it that we can overcome so much in history, but we can’t seem to get our children to want to be better. It is time that we take our community back. What about volunteering for afterschool programs at churches. All churches have rooms where we can work with children on math and reading. We can’t look to any other people to help. We have to do it ouselves!

By GaNative

November 30, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this

Race will always matter. As long as there is more land to build new houses, integration will never work. Whites will always run. I think the focus should be on insuring that the same resources that the kids have on the North Side schools should be available for the kids on the South Side. Right now, segregation starts with our local school system. How can two schools within the same district, funded by the same dollars be so different? How is it that the predominately white school will have so much more than the predominately black school, yet the same tax dollars fund them?

By DebbieDoRight

November 30, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this

When was the last time the African-American community celebrated educated African-Americans.

We do it all the time,(Mae Jamieson, Shirley Chisolm, Barbara Jordan, GW Carver, WEB Dubois, etc.); I’m sorry that you don’t think so.

By tyrone

November 30, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Yes skin color will always matter to some degree.It is a fact of life. Just accept it.

By KA

November 30, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

GaNative, We have had this conversation in the blog before regarding the resouces in schools. PTA fundraising often makes the differences in resources. Interested parents supporting the school, helping to rais funds to buy books, computers and programs, give teachers money to buy supplies, playground equipment, musical instruments, fund field trips, visiting artists, and school nurses, and the list goes on and on. Parents make the difference, coming together and working together for all of their children in the school.

By AR

November 30, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

We live in a community outside of metropolitan Atlanta where if all the white kids were in public school we would have a majority white system. However, they aren’t, and there has been a more concerted flight over the last half dozen years, so the whites are a minority, and even getting outnumbered by the Hispanic populations. Our son, who is now a senior, was one of only nine white boys in his grade in his elementary school. When he was in elementary school, he was always being reprimanded for behavior – we think he was mostly bored and acted out – and we would reprimand him at home also. Finally, one of the teachers told us that there just weren’t enough examples of good behavior in the school; he was just doing what everyone else was doing. Because we had a choice system, we moved him in the fifth grade to another elementary school, which was closer to being majority white, and his behavior completely changed. Now that he’s almost done with high school, it’s apparent that we have done him a disservice by staying in this school system, although private school was not an option. He is so sick of the ghetto atmosphere that surrounds him, the kids who fight, who are disrespectful of not only teachers but their fellow students in the classroom, who are disdainful of the opportunities an education can provide. But, by God, they have the latest athletic shoes and pimped up cars! We have kept him in the advanced college placement classes just so that he at least is in a class where most of the other students are interested in getting an education. But the electives aren’t always divided up that way, so he’s forced to deal with the general population in those classes. What we have seen over the last few years, especially compared to what his sister had four years before him, is that the curriculum has been “dumbed down” because there are so many kids who will not do the work. So, starting in middle school, the teachers stopped assigning research projects, book reports, or science fair projects. What projects they did do were power point presentations that they did in class. He has not had an English class in high school where the teachers had vocabulary words each week as his sister did, although that seemed to end with her when they switched to block scheduling, too. If the teachers don’t assign the work, they don’t have to give zeros when it isn’t done. We are looking at colleges now and the ethnic makeup is a very important consideration!

By Tam

November 30, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

DevvieDoRight, ask a young African-American child who any of those people are, and listen to the response. When was the last awards show on television for educated African-Americans.

Tam

By Tam

November 30, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this

AR, you are right. That goes back to the point I made earlier about the responsibility of our own community. African-Americans have to stop allowing our children to think that acting “ghetto” is cool. It’s not, nor will it ever be cool to act ignorant!

By Hick from the sticks

November 30, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

Tam—

Please forgive my ignorance, but what part of Africa do you hail from? This terminology which still stains this nation from some “politically correct” ideology does nothing but add to the seperation of the races. Are whites, then, to be further relegated to “European Americans”?

I do not live in Europe. I live in America. By reigon, I then, am American. Not Irish American, nor Scottish American, just simply…American.

I doubt highly that race and race issues will ever be settled in our lifetime. We fool ourselves to state things such as being “color-blind”. Race is prevalent and always shall be. Malcolm X even stated in his speech “Ballot or the Bullet” that integration of neighborhoods is a sham: a false dream. I am not certain as to why if we can not seem to live next door to each other why society would figure that integration in schools would truly happen.

Don’t quite follow?

Walk down the hallways of some schools.

White halls. Black halls. Asian halls. Latino halls.

Exceptions to the rule? Certainly. The overwhelming majority of the time however, familiarity based upon race and identity wins out in social situations.

The dream of America being a melting pot has failed. Tragically. An American stew, certainly. Quite a good number of ingredients with not a whole lot coming together to create something new.

By SNY

November 30, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

tam,

How are we suppose to be at afterschool programs when we can’t get off of work? Black parents (moms) HAVE to work or our black children don’t eat. All of these schools that you all are mentioning have white SAHM who can afford to be at the school for 20-30 hours a week.

Now, that being said, I truly believe that there is a HUGE difference in educating black children and white children. My daughter attends an ALL black Christian Academy and I love it. Last year, she attended a mostly white public school and we HATED it. People want to believe that all children learn the same no matter what their race and that just isn’t true. I am a firm believer and my daughter has proven it to me that black kids need to be able to relate to their teachers. White people seem to think that children should just do as they are told and that is the bottom line. In this situation, it isn’t that simple. My daughter repeatedly informed me that she did not feel a connection between her and her teacher last year. We never had that problem in private school before 3rd grade and we aren’t having the problem now in 4th. She has 12 classes, 12! That’s alot for a 4th grade, 9 year old child and she has all A’s and B’s. If the kids don’t feel like they can relate to a teacher, they are not going to learn from that teacher. Bottom line. You don’t have to agree with something for it to be true.

By catlady

November 30, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

I agree about the “dumbing down” that is happening, although it may or may not be race-related. Let me tell you what IS coming: no “special ed” classes to “protect” your child. Our government is moving to do complete “push in”classes where special needs and non-English speaking kids and their needs will have to be “met” in the regular classroom. Guess who suffers? In addition, the only way kids will even be tested for special needs will be if their parents pay for it privately. And finally, if a child is “succeeding” at first grade level in a fifth grade classroom, based on dumbing down, accomodating, or whatever you want to call it, that child is “successful” and needs no other services. Folks, get your kids out of public schools now if you have any hopes for their futures! And of course, there will be increased pressure from this to make vouchers available and the public schools will continue to sink lower and lower. If you don’t believe this (I didn’t) check with your local school system about SSt tiers, etc. It is starting NOW. NOTE: I have never been a fan of private schools after over 30 years as a teacher, but we need to be very, very frightened.

By Tam

November 30, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

Hick from the sticks, my heritage goes back to ethiopia. I am African-American. By the way, who came up with all the labels. Take a look at your gov’t forms, tests, applications, etc…

SNY, You are not the only person in the world working! Stop making excuses. People have time for what they want to have time for. Do you go get your hair done or your nails done! It’s about sacrifice and priorities! My mother worked everyday, and my father worked everyday, but I learned in school, out of school, at church, in college and grad school. Stop blaming others, and take responsibilty for yourself. If you didn’t have time to raise children, you shouldn’t have had them.

By GaNative

November 30, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

KA, that’s true parents do make a difference, but black parents are not sit at home soccer moms with nothing to do with their time but volunteer. Black parents have to ask “Mr. Charley” for time off and you won’t have your job long taking time off to raise money at a school. Racism has changed from skin color to economics. I really think their is a hidden secret in corporate america that once a black man is in his 40’s lay him off. Also if he’s lucky enough to retire at a company, when he leaves, he’s done. Whites retire and come back as consultants. The only way a black man is coming back is if he’s working on the Janitorial Crew. Now, with that being said, I’ve seen white schools raffle off a car as a fund raiser (one parent owned a dealership), blacks can’t do that. I’ve seen youth baseball leagues do it to, but you can bet your azz my kid’s league can’t do it.

By JustMe

November 30, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

SNY -

I do fear for your child. In the 4th grade, your child may “feel” better about herself. And, she may “have” As and Bs as grades.

The real results of her education will show when she takes tests that can compare her to others. If she is far behind her peers, then her “feeling” and the grades that the school is giving her really don’t mean anything.

I compare what you are saying to some home schooling parents/students. Some will say that they love it and are learning a lot. Then, they take the GHSGT and/or the SAT and they do not score so well. The proof is in the pudding!

By GaNative

November 30, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

Ummm SNY, it’s not about making excuses. Whites don’t have a clue. You know when my wife gets her hair done? She goes there after work on a Friday Night around 8:00pm and it’s like 2:00am or 3:00am Saturday Morning when she returns because the place is full of others like her. I wonder why God gave the economic deprived black woman hair that you have to spend money on, yet the white women who can afford it have wash and wear hair?

By SNY

November 30, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

tam,

Slow your roll, you know nothing about me. It was just a question. I have a job where I am able to leave and attend chapel service on Wednesday and help at the school when I need or want to. So, that question didn’t apply to me.

I make time for both of my kids and I have 2 jobs, so I know it can be done.

Now, no I don’t get my nails done and I don’t get my hair done either. Did you ask me that just because I am black? Do not stereotype me because you have no idea who you are messing with!!

My question was asked because I used to work for a company that would not give hourly employees time off on a regular basis, paid or unpaid, to handle things of this nature. They said it wasn’t their problem.

Get your facts together before you start bashing people for making excuses or having children that they shouldn’t have had.

By Elaine

November 30, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Our schools will be segregated as long as we continue to live in segregated communities. Logistically this is true b/c we have neighborhood schools. Socially this is true b/c kids will “hang out” with who they know, who seems familiar.

I grew up in Metro Little Rock, where we’d been under federal court order to desegregate our schools since ‘57. I’m not saying that desegregation is a bad thing, but what some of the bloggers are describing above—kids segregating themselves inside a desegregated school—happened then and still happens now, almost 50 years later.

Children’s communities are no different than adults’ communities. If they live in a segregated “real world” the microcosm of school will reflect that, no matter what system or program we enact.

This is a social, economic issue. And honestly, not one the government can fix. I’m afraid some well-meaning programs are actually making it worse. At UGA, it was rough to stand in line for my small academic scholarship check that I earned (that didn’t pay my tuition, but helped with books) completely surrounded by persons of other ethnicities whose grades weren’t as high as mine, and were getting much larger scholarships to help the school maintain a greater racial balance. I was raised to respect all people, so I knew that to be bitter about that (while my dad was unemployed, mind you) was morally wrong, but honestly, I had to fight the feeling. It took a deliberate, conscious effort on my part not to become angry when my small $300 a quarter for an A average and high SAT wasn’t enough, that I might have to drop out…but if I’d been a different ethnicity, I could have had a free ride.

It wasn’t the kids’ fault that they were awarded more. It wasn’t the school’s fault for wanting to be more diverse. But the plan might backfire in the long run. I hope not, but it might.

By catlady

November 30, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

I know this is off topic, but “white women …have wash and wear hair”??!! Is that a joke, GaNative?

Bottom line: ALL folks need to be involved in their children’s education. Middle class, married folks of ANY color may have an easier time of demonstrating their involvement because of being able to live more flexible lifestyles that permit overt (easily noticed ) involvement. There is a whole lot more important evidence of involvement than donating a car for PTA to raffle off! Ask any teacher!

Poor white folks, especially single parents, and poor immigrants face the same “black” problems mentioned here. The key is to find out HOW to be involved if you can’t be at the school each day selling popcorn.

By SNY

November 30, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

JustMe,

My child takes the ITBS every year and her scores are wonderful and have been since she was 3 years old. You do not need to fear for my child. She is exactly where she needs to be. She is not learning information just to take a test. She is remembering information and she is actually learning the entire concept. Last year, I don’t think my child learned a thing. She played catch up in school at the beginning of this school year. She is fine.

Last year when she took the CRCT she actually failed the reading portion by 1 question. It wasn’t until then that we found out that she didn’t understand what an inferential question was. She knows now. She retook the test, (even though she didn’t have to) passed and now her teacher spends extra time with her to make sure that she understands the concept. She is right where she needs to be. The public school failed her last year and I will not ALLOW them to do it again. The school that she attends does give standardized tests and they give us the results. Their scores are not indicative of the rest of the low scores in GA. The school as a whole is doing above average, including my child.

By Gail

November 30, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

To SNY: So what if your child doesn’t feel “a connection” to his/her teacher? I think this is some old bs that black people keep telling themselves. Is your daughter going to have “to connect” with her employers in the future? To me, this idea is a cop out that some blacks use because they don’t feel like dealing with the white establishment. Don’t get me wrong, white teachers and administrators need to step up and try to understand black culture to some degree; however, it is incumbent on us as blacks to help make ourselves understood. Hightailing it to an all black environment where you can be “understood” is not doing anything to help alleviate racism in this country.

Did you “connect” with every teacher you ever had? I certainly didn’t, but that’s life — learning to deal with people that you don’t connect with. Keeping your child in her current environment may make her (and you) happy now, but the day is coming when she will have to learn to “deal”. I think that’s a better lesson learned now than later.

By Hick from the sticks

November 30, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

Tam—

Thank you for enlightening me on where your heritage spawns from. I can only assume then, that your grandparents must have been around for the coronation of Emperor Halie Selassie I.

I was honestly unaware, however, that I had my own personal government forms.

Furthermore, a comment about someone “having” children they didn’t “want”, is that not degrading your own people? Community involvement, indeed.

By Gail

November 30, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

To SNY: So what if your child doesn’t feel “a connection” to his/her teacher? I think this is some old bs that black people keep telling themselves. Is your daughter going to have “to connect” with her employers in the future? To me, this idea is a cop out that some blacks use because they don’t feel like dealing with the white establishment. Don’t get me wrong, white teachers and administrators need to step up and try to understand black culture to some degree; however, it is incumbent on us as blacks to help make ourselves understood. Hightailing it to an all black environment where you can be “understood” is not doing anything to help alleviate racism in this country.

Did you “connect” with every teacher you ever had? I certainly didn’t, but that’s life — learning to deal with people that you don’t connect with. Keeping your child in her current environment may make her (and you) happy now, but the day is coming when she will have to learn to “deal”. I think that’s a better lesson learned now than later.

By the real EW

November 30, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

GANative,

I will not deny you of the fact that there was and has been a system designed to discriminate and create an inferior race of people.

HOWEVER, we are in 2006, and technology is and can quickly start to close that gap. Yes, more affluent white schools have more things because of the parents and PTA. For example, Sutton Middle School in Buckhead gets quick fortune because of their location. They are directly across the street from Chastain Park Amphitheater; they are blessed to have parking available for all events, so they charge 10.00 to park for each event! Can you imagine how much money that is, can you imagine the parent support needed to man the parking lots and take the money for each and every event that is called commitment. I THINK they made close to 80K last year, just on that alone, not counting any fundraisers! Amazing… Now is this because they are white, or because of location? If I’m not mistaken there is an elementary school across from the Georgia Dome, - African American - I would be interested to know if that school is taking advantage of selling parking spaces for events.

TAM is so correct that children don’t know who basic famous African Americans are – I had one tell me Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was a president, this was a supposedly affluent, suburban school. Ha it’s a joke! Come sit in and realize that African American history is not a priority in the home as it once was, it is who is the most famous rapper, or athlete. It is truly embarrassing.

SNY, BEWARE. I hope your experience in your private school is a good one. I had my daughter in one of the considered best “black private schools” in Atlanta; all I can say is AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh. None, of the teachers were certified in the subjects, yes, my daughter was surrounded with people that “look” like her but us that reality? Her second grade teacher was certified in ART. They did not put emphasis on technology, and the real test is will they be able to compete in the real world, adjust and work. First, I would ask you to research how many of their high school graduates actually graduate from college. Many go but can they hack it? What standardized if any (because that’s the world we live in) do they administer? It might be good for her self esteem, but it is not reality. At all.

By catlady

November 30, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

“Brother Dave”, a white, Southern comedian from back in the early 60’s used to say, “The color of prejudice isn’t black or white, dear heart, it’s green. If you don’t have green, you are a second class citizen anywhere in the world!”

By Amy

November 30, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

Just got on and read everybody, I’d like to go back to the list of people who were educated. I read the papers all the time and I haven’t heard of them. (sorry, I’m white.) That was the point. I have applauded Bill Cosby and his challenges, because education IS important and it ISN’T being valued in our communities that are struggling. Until education is highly valued, these discrepancies are not going away. And those of us that work can still fight to show our kids what is important and be involved in other ways other than showing up at school. We can’t let down and let apathy (or our own fatigue)take our kids away.

I have had other experiences (other than my race) pull me away from fighting for my children, and I want to change that, but I can’t blame anyone other than myself.

By product of DPS

November 30, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

I cannot believe we are still talking about this. Ten years ago I was featured in a documentary on this exact topic in Dekalb County. I remember saying then that I loved my school and thought that busing was the wrong choice. If they put the same resources in all schools then it would not matter. I still believe that. Education first and foremost begins at home. Even though I went to an urban high school my parents produced three college graduates. My siblings were both valedictorians and I graduated in the top half of my class. What was the difference?? Parental involment. My parents were presidents of the PTA, my dad helped me with my homework and my parents made sure we were exposed to a variety of social events. We went to museums (mostly free) and to the library as well as watched public television. I am now a parent of one and have one on the way and am doing the same for my daughter. We go to the library. I check her homework. I make sure to be involved with her education. So stop blaming the education system!!! It does not matter if there are black and white schools…educate at home!!

By SNY

November 30, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

JustMe,

My child takes the ITBS every year and her scores are wonderful and have been since she was 3 years old. You do not need to fear for my child. She is exactly where she needs to be. She is not learning information just to take a test. She is remembering information and she is actually learning the entire concept. Last year, I don’t think my child learned a thing. She played catch up in school at the beginning of this school year. She is fine.

Last year when she took the CRCT she actually failed the reading portion by 1 question. It wasn’t until then that we found out that she didn’t understand what an inferential question was. She knows now. She retook the test, (even though she didn’t have to) passed and now her teacher spends extra time with her to make sure that she understands the concept. She is right where she needs to be. The public school failed her last year and I will not ALLOW them to do it again. The school that she attends does give standardized tests and they give us the results. Their scores are not indicative of the rest of the low scores in GA. The school as a whole is doing above average, including my child.

By scott

November 30, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

The comments catlady made cover the real issues we are faced with. If your child is not in the TAG program, AP, or college prep, then you are going to have to “pony up” and pay for a private school (if they can get in) or a private tutoring service. This can be another topic but the move towards “inclusion in the classroom” is the catalyst behind the “dumbing down” phenomenon. Colleges and research instruct teachers about the different learning styles and needs of students but the LEGISLATURE, BUSINESS COMMUNITY, and COURT SYSTEM has forced public schools to try to educate students the same way and access them by one standard. Now we have a generation of kids without any critical thinking skills or original thought. I believe the only advantage private school have is they can “select” their students and create classes with similar learning styles and abilities. When you have kids who take 1 week to do a two day assignment this slows down the progression of the other 25+ kids. It is going to take a lawsuit from a parent of the other 25 to bring this to the forefront or we will continue our slow decline in the public classroom.

By catlady

November 30, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

One other thing to SNY and others: judging your child’s educational attainment by looking at CRCT or ITBS scores is like judging a car by its odometer reading: it tells you only a little bit. I have no idea if your daughter is getting an appropriate education—that you are pleased with it is a good start—but there should be other data you use to measure how well the school/your daughter are doing. Don’t be blinded by her happiness with her new school into thinking that it is the best thing for her (although it may be!) Keep your guard up, and keep advocating for high standards!

By scott

November 30, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Sorry meant to say assess and not “access”. Computer program on the brain.

By bwhit

November 30, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

IMHO integration was attempted to provide all an equal education. The white students were ahead educationally than the black students. In an attempt to raise the educational level of black students the white students were actually held back. Now it seems that instead of pulling up the lower students the lower students pulled the higher achieving students down. It is much easier to be pulled down than pulled up.

By the real EW

November 30, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

SNY - hate to say this but the ITBS is the same bull that the CRCT is. You are compared to all of the nation’s schools, private and public. The reason why most private schools give that test is because they can purchase it and administer it, it gives them something to say – hey, hey look at us, were testing! Private schools have NO accountability but to the paying customers that they want to keep happy, especially I hate to say it – black ones. Most are ill managed on always on the verge of making ends meat. I’m not saying this is your private school, so don’t get defensive. But I have dealt with three African American private schools in the metro area, all the same.

I have said it and will continue to say that the overall all value of education in all races has declined. It is a generational catastrophe.

Catlady is right, I think I have 15 students on my list TODAY to SST, because simply they are behavior issues, failing classes, and I must use this as a CYA for me because these students are not trying, have no parental support, or are a truancy issue, OR multiple repeaters and are just waiting on 16 to drop out. There is a problem when 80 – 990 percent of an entire school has an SST folder don’t you think?

By catlady

November 30, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

Scott, I agree with you but I think one thing we (parents of bright, high-achieving students) won’t be able to do is “protect” them with the gifted program, special classes, etc. in public schools. Used to be, your child’s inclusion in one of these programs meant that they were unlikely to have any “lump-lump” classes other than PE. This is being dismantled rapidly. This has only become clear to me in the last couple of months as I am told more and more by school administrators, counselors, and psychologists about what is going to be “provided” for children who are significantly behind (whatever the reason). You think we have seen a great “dumbing down” over the last 5-10 years? It is NOTHING compared to what is happening right now. Praise God, my youngest is about to graduate from college, but my future grandchildren will have to have alternate education, rather than suffer what the public schools will offer. Parents should be raising every kind of ** about what is happening! But instead, like me, those that can will abandon the public schools in a great flood.

By paul02085

November 30, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

Skin color will always come into play. Most whites definitely dont want to live around blacks so they move as far as they can away from Atlanta but still work in metro area. Their next move will probably be closer to Chattanooga than Atlanta, lol.

Most blacks want to live where whites live. As they continue to infiltrate an area, the whites start to pack up and move further out to get away from them so they leave their areas for the blacks which is nice for the blacks IMO.

Most of the whites who move are doing it so their kids will not have to go to school with a bunch of blacks.

Anybody thinks different is mistaken.

By catlady

November 30, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

real EW—we are told now that there will be virtually NO ssts by next year. If the child is “succeeding” with modifications (such as correctly spelling one word from a list of 20) then that child is successful and does not need an SSt, just a continuation of the modification. So merely spelling “cat” correctly, even though you are a fifth grader, means there is nothing else needed—you are successful in spelling. And teachers have to keep modifiying the curriculum until the child is successful. I hate SST’s—for the most part they are just CYA and BS, but the idea that we will call a child whose work is 5 years below grade level “successful” and send them on is INSANE!

By catlady

November 30, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

Where is jim d? I am sure he has some insight into this?

By SNY

November 30, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

catlady,

This isn’t a new school for her. We were at this school for K4-2nd, went to public for 3rd and now we are back. I tried being a SAHM and couldn’t do it. I don’t just look at her scores on tests. That’s why I didn’t let her scores on the CRCT bother me. They bothered Gwinnett County more than me and my husband. I use other methods to gauge her educational progress. We go to the library and I study with her myself. This way if I see what she is studying in school, I know what we need to get at the library because she isn’t getting it at school. But so far, I am completly happy with her school. It isn’t just about her happiness, (I’m not a moron people) it is about her getting what her father and I feel is the best education that we can provide. If I have to work 2 jobs to accomplish that then I’m okay with that. My children do not suffer one bit over it. I am home every night checking homework and my husband is with them on the weekends. I may be a little tired sometimes, but who said that parenting wasn’t tiring. It is worth it and they appreciate the extra effort that I give to afford them the opportunity to learn. Also, by her school being all black, she is getting the black history lessons that are lacking in public schools.

My husband and I are both college educated and military vets, we are not getting tricked into believing that this is the right place for our children. I did almost 2 years of research before I chose a school for my children. I’ll never leave again.

By the real EW

November 30, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

Wow, Catlady didnt know that - that will be a pure hot mess! Why dont we just set a rule that all teachers will modify all instruction five grade levels below — will that help everybody? This is a joke.

By Eric

November 30, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

As long as people remain ignorant, skin color will always be an issue.

As long as we keep identifying ourselves by race, it will remain an issue. African-American is a divisive term. So is Polish-American or English-American or Chinese-American. Once you are a citizen of this country, you are an American, period point blank. You might be a white lady, a black dude, or an Asian child, but you are still American, not American-hyphonated-so-that-I-may-continue-to-perpetuate-this-divisiveness.

SNY - I am glad that your precious child is able to identify and relate to her instructors. Furthermore, I am quite certain that she is going to grow up with wonderfully bolstered self-esteem. But that is not going to fly in the “real world.” If you need anyone to elaborate as to why, then I feel for you and feel even more for your child.

By catlady

November 30, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

real EW—we seem to ALREADY be modifiying instruction several grade levels below, don’t we? It is just that this will speed the train along.

By hs sped

November 30, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

Catlady is right. It’s coming and it’s not going to be pretty. Response to Intervention is the name of it and it’s going to take away from your child’s learning. The paperwork is a nightmare and I can see a lot of dumbing-down to avoid it. Not that we don’t do that already….can’t have anyone lose any self-esteem!

By catlady

November 30, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

SNY—sounds like you have a good fit. Your daughter is fortunate to have her parents so involved. I wish your family the best!

By the real EW

November 30, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

Wow paul02085,

I wasn’t aware that we are “infiltrating” any predestinated areas only set up for a certain race of people. I think some on this blog would argue that this is the exact mentality of what so many complain about - that some whites have a superiority complex… I’m moving into a neighborhood that I can afford, now just be p** that we can afford the same thing.

Also, one more thing – the HUGE influx on whites moving back into the city, states that it is more about money…. You must have the money to live in those condos and lofts. Also it is all about convenience, tired of the commute so let’s go “redevelop” this neighborhood.

By abc

November 30, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

SNY - I’m glad that your daughter “connects” with her teacher this year, but, don’t tell these people that you didn’t have your panties in a wad for the entire year about your daughter’s test score!

You blogged almost for a month straight because it bothered you so much. People took to calling this the “SNY Show” if you recall.

Furthermore - everytime you tell the story about your daughter and her failing part of the exam - the points by which she failed diminishes each time! First, she failed by 4 point, then 3 points, and today, it was only 1 point! I guess the next time you tell this story - she will have passed!

By Ernest

November 30, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

Interesting topic and posts thus far! I have to agree with Elaine @ 11:57. As long as housing patterns remain they way they are, schools will primarily reflect the racial makeup of their communities. Many of the social engineering experiments, i.e. busing, have not yielded expected results.

Like many here, I’m a compassionate person and want to reach out to help those willing to help themselves. I ‘perceive’ that many have witnessed/experienced those that are willing to take but not give back thus causing frustration and anger.

Unfortunately our schools are being asked to address social problems that I personally believe they are not equipped to handle. What do we do for the child that lives on the wrong side of the tracks yet attends a school in which the ‘education value system’ is low? Do we simply pour more taxpayer dollars into that school (with a small chance to get a return on investment) or provide a way out to a different school environment, perhaps through transportation?

Where is SET when you need him?

By catlady

November 30, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Thanks, hs sped. I am glad I am not the only person who has heard this. I didn’t know its name—I just called it The Newest Idiocy from the Government. Its effects are going to be cataclysmic, I think. I suspect it is another effort to separate the haves and have nots, and to reinforce the voucher agenda, but I could be wrong. I’d love to hear an arguement FOR it!

By scott

November 30, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

Catlady,

Are you saying that inclusion is going to move into the gifted programs? Or will the gifted teacher be in the resource pool for teaching inclusion classes? I have not been convinced on the benefits of team teaching for the general ed students(non-special ed and SST students), could someone give me a success story?

By Stockbridge King

November 30, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

Im going to be straight up. For those who believe that certain schools bring their child’s scores down, it isnt just the school, ITS THE STATE!!! When living in New york, going to an inner city school, the education I recieved was 10 times better than I was receiving in Suburban Georgia school. Georgia needs to raise its academic cirriculum and you will see change.

By GaNative

November 30, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this

Like the bible says “It’s not what goes in that defiles a man, but what comes out”. What goes in is chitted out, but what comes out comes from the heart.

By scott

November 30, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

SST’s are becoming “special-education lite”. The bottom line, as stated before, parents are the first and last line of defense for educating your child. Everyone can not afford private school or like me would rather have the money to pay for college. Many parents are gambling their money on kids in private school believing it will result in a college scholarship. Unless things change you will be better suited to save your money, spend time with your kid, not have them in 10 activities, and just find a good SAT prep program.

By catlady

November 30, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Scott, I don’t know if gifted classes will be “protected” from the teacher being pulled into the general classes. If any group would be protected, it would be them (more political pull, although the special ed lobby is second only to the Pope in influence :) ) I actually had not asked that question. To be fair (like everything else, hahahaha) the gifted teacher would go into the pool to do push in for the regular class. If it “works” for mentally handicapped, bd, ESOL, etc, it should work REALLY WELL for gifted kids, but would their parents stand for it?! If I can find out about that, I will let you know.

By GaNative

November 30, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

Rather than trying to integrate the students, why not integrate the teachers? Most inner city schools have the dumb teachers. They graduate from the pitiful places like Morris Brown College and couldn’t pass the SAT themselves if it was given to them. But most white teachers would quit rather than come and try to educate the inner city kids. So race will always be an issue.

By scott

November 30, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this

Having a diverse faculty is another area that needs to be addressed. How many kids go through K-5 without ever having a male teacher. How many go through K-8 without every having a black male teacher.
20/20 did a report a few years ago how elementary teachers favor students who remind them of themselves. Well the majority of elementary students reflect the Caitlens and Morgans in the classroom. This results in the increase of incidents not only with non-white students but with boys also. Race, gender, social structure, and economics are all factors in public education. Parents, how many of you could walk in your school today and your child’s teacher knows you by your first name, how many can say the same about the school’s principal. You get out what you put in.

By Stockbridge King

November 30, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

@ GANative

Have you ever been taught in an inner city school? I have and it seems suburban teachers are WAY dumber than inner city teachers.

By Tina

November 30, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

I wanted to just chime in on this “dumbing down” of classrooms because of Special Education Inclusion. I’m an 8th grade inclusion teacher. We haven’t “dumbed down” our curriculum this year at all. If something needs to be modified—I modify it and hand it out to the students that need it. They still do the same assignments that the rest of the class does—with the exception of extended time or possibly a little less problems.

Perfect example: We are currently working on a RESEARCH paper which has to be 4-6 pages and is due the Monday or Tuesday of the last week of school in Dec. What did I tell the kids on my caseload? “Your paper can be no shorter than THREE pages…and I have to receive it by Thursday of the last week of school in Dec.” They are expected to complete the same type of research, not to plagiarize, and it better be typed, 12 point font, double spaced. We have high expectations for our students and we communicate this to the parents.

Is this “dumbing down?” I think not.
Don’t place the blame of kids not being educated on the fact that inclusion is taking place.

By Tina

November 30, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

I also wanted to add—I do agree that SOME special education students need not be in the general education classroom (severe behavior disorders and some mildly intellectually disabled…SID and PID definitely shouldn’t be there)…your LD, OHI (this includes ADD and ADHD now), and some BD kids can and do succeed in the reg. ed class.

Stop painting special ed with this wide brush.

By Ella

November 30, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

I think the divisiveness over race is really about socio-economic class. I don’t think we’d notice race as much if we were all on the same economic footing.

By Etacude

November 30, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

The patterns in our school systems are the same patterns we see in every occupation, community, government, etc….

If you walk into any corporate building in 90% of metro Atlanta, you will see success appears to be white. While at the same time, the security, cleaning and lunch servers are minorities.

When I take my daughter to my office, I show her the difference between being dumb and being smart. In our office tower, 90% of my coworkers are white. When we go into our cafeteria, through security and into our restrooms - 99% are a minority.

As a black woman, I want to show my daughter that being labled a geek is great. Or would she prefer to be laughed at while standing behind the counter at Wendy’s, asking if you want fries with that at the age of 25.

Our kids need to step outside of there communities and see what the otherside lives like.

Then they need to see/meet someone who looks like themselves, so that they can visualize success.

I have a black female doctor and my daughter loves to go with me to an office visit, just so that she can ask questions. Not to say she wouldn’t ask a white female or male doctor the same questions.

We as blacks have such an Inferiority complex. Yes, I said it. We spend way too much time worrying about white people. I can care less about any of them… or anybody else in the world. I’m the most analytical person, because I’m always thinking of ways to get around anything that appears to be oppression.

I make sure that my daughter knows that she can COMPETE with anyone, no matter where they come from or where they THINK they are headed.

We have so much Fear of failure. But, the things we are MOST successful at are the things we should FEAR. Why don’t we FEAR being DUMB?

By Etacude

November 30, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this