Get Schooled

By Tina

November 22, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this

I just teach 3rd grade, so I don’t have the long lengthy assignments like high school does, but I agree that’s it’s overwhelming! The new GPS writing requirements has us taking multiple samples of 6 different types of writing. I’ve always taught writing to my 3rd graders, but I don’t know when to find to time to do the amount now required. Unfortunately, something else has to go and it’s hard to know what! We have to get them ready for the reading CRCT, and then we hear science scores are declining.

By em

November 22, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

I am not an English teacher; I teach history. I believe that if the essay assignment is worth giving then it is worth grading. As painful as the task is sometimes, I DO read every paper and I WILL be reading them over the Thanksgiving break.

By teach overseas

November 22, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

When I taught at a Fulton County high school in the years before NCLB, all teachers were required to have a reading and writing section on their final exams- even in things like math and art. In my class, I already had two essays in my test and this one added a third. So, with three essays per kid, 180 kids on my roll, that would be 540 essays to be graded in two days. And that’s just the essays!

The school also required a minimum of 15 “graded experiences” over a quarter. That is about 2 pieces of work a week per kid. So every English teacher is looking at 360 pieces of work a week- just to meet the minimum.

Keep in mind that most English teachers are also expected to be involved with after school activities as well and they meet with the same number of parents as the math teachers.

Quality grading of student work— are you kidding me?

By Molly

November 22, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

My 4th grade daughter hasn’t had a single writing assignment all year. All assignments are either fill-in-the-blank or multiple choice worksheets. This is at an elementary school that received the Governors’ Platinum Award for Excellence.

By 30 Year Teacher

November 22, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

As an English teacher I know I spend many more hours grading than teachers in many other subjects. Here in FL we have a section of the state FCAT devoted to writing. I have found that, unless forced, teachers who are not in 4th, 8th, or 10th grade do minimal if any instruction in the teaching of writing. Before the FCAT arrives in Feb. I will have taught and assigned at least 7 essays to my 8th and 10th grade students. I have appoximately 130 students and spend many, many evenings and at least 7 hours each and every Sunday before the FCAT grading papers. My students are great, even the at-risk kids, and we enjoy the writing workshops (the kids tell me it’s their favorite part of the year)but I must admit the grading is overwhelming and one of my main reasons for retirement next year.

My students do well but I am always relieved when we have moved past this part of the curriculum.

By Really?

November 22, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

Molly,

I’d expect homework, maybe, to be like you described, but maybe they work through the writing process at school?

Are you sure that you would know if she had written one in class?

I’m asking because at schools with computer writing labs, a parent might never see the student work on a paper.

By Thomas

November 22, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this

As for Molly surmise that her child hasn’t done any writing all year, she might not have. Molly how do you know what kind of work your daughter does at school? Do the students receive some kind of folder with returned work in it on a regular basis?

If her daughter’s school is a Platinum Award winner for CRCT achievement, then more likely it is a mostly white, upper-middle class suburban school. You can have the majority (96%+) of your student body pass the CRCT because the parents have done much of the preparation in helping their child reach that level of performance. You don’t have have to be a good writer to pass the CRCT. All you have to do is know basic reading, how to find a noun in a sentence, and can multiply 15 x 3 in a word problem (or can identify the number sentence that shows that).

This is why parents and the home are so IMPORTANT in the development of children. Teaching a child in Forsyth County is nothing like teaching a child in the city of Atlanta. In APS, people have to go through all kind of ridiculous foolishness to teach a child to read simple sentences. Home preparation and support are the key.

So to all the people out there, north, south, east, or west who worked with their children from birth-

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU

You would be amazed in the number of “fourth graders” in this state who can barely read. It boggles the mind.

By sue

November 22, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

My son is in 8th grade in Gwinnett County. The Gateway test in the spring will be a writing test, so they are assigned a lot of writing assignments in preparation. I can’t imagine having to grade 2 or 3 writing assignments a week for 100 students. Why would anyone want to teach 8th grade language arts in Gwinnett?!

By SET

November 22, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

Grading of writing assignments can be outsourced.

Much to do about nothing.

By Lisa B.

November 22, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

Molly,

My 4th graders have an hour long Writer’s Workshop daily. However, unless parents visit the school and see their children’s work displayed on the walls, parents won’t see any of the work. The writing pieces are kept in student portfolios. At the end of the year, a few lesser pieces go home, but the best student work stays in portfolios at school.

As far as grading writing papers goes, I cannot imagine keeping up with the quantity of grading faced by middle school and high school English teachers. I read, provide feedback and finally grade all my 4th graders’ writing assignments. With an hour of writing each day, the work mounts up quickly, and its very easy to get behind if I don’t grade papers daily. And I only have one class.

By AgreeWithThomas

November 22, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

A teacher showed me a test with an essay question. The student crossed out “essay” and wrote “hard” above it. The student thought essay was “easy”. Multiply that example times thousands, and in general terms, that illustrates the difference home preparation and support can make.

By luvs2teach

November 22, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

SET - outsourced to whom? Subjective assignemnts like essays are the one type of assignment I won’t let anyone else grade.

We have school-wide writing, and we are asked to have the kids produce a single paragraph (power writing, for those of you who are familiar). Grading those is awful - I can’t imagine full-length essays to the extent that the LA teachers MUST assign (far more than any other subject, em).

BTW - did you know that secondary ELA teachers are now eligible for the Master’s degree HOPE because they are a “critical needs” area?

I wonder why…

By KA

November 22, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

SET, LOL on the outsourcing. Isn’t the teacher in charge of assessment? And who would pay for the outsourcing?

By decaturparent

November 22, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

You know, if we could get class sizes down to reasonable levels then teachers wouldn’t have to work 80 hours a week grading writing papers. Writing is about the most important skill a student can learn. Even if you are good at math and reading, it doesn’t do a whole lot of good if you can’t communicate those abilities to others using written/typed words.

My 4th grader is in an IB program so she has a ton of writing assignments and projects constantly (3 major ones and 4 smaller ones so far). She’s a weak writer so the practice is tough for her but she needs it. She has 27 in her class though which I think is an absurdly high number considering the sophistication of work that is expected of them at such a young age.

If we are going to require authentic work from students (i.e. NOT ditto sheets), we need to keep class sizes below 20. But.. that’s just a pipe dream. Schools, especially in GA, will never be funded enough to properly support instruction of that quality. We are too busy spending paying friends of the Bush family like McGraw Hill for NCLB fill-in-the bubble tests (like that teaches a usable skill), and scripted instruction and trying to fit every uniquely and diversely talented kid into some federally mandated mold.

Ridiculous.

By decaturparent

November 22, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

BTW, a bit off topic, but I read a funny quote today.

Most of us are probably familiar with Margaret Spellings quote that “NCLB is like Ivory Soap. It’s 99.9% pure.”

Well, horse manure is 100% pure, but that doesn’t mean I want it around my kids.

By dragonlady

November 22, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

I am in my 41st year of teaching English (retired & teaching part time), and only another English teacher can imagine the hours I have given over to grading papers. In honors and AP level classes, if I work constantly and am not interrupted, I can perhaps grade 7 papers in one hour.

And yes, Patti, I read every word. And no, SET, I would never allow anyone else to grade my essays. How will I know what my students can do unless I check behind them?

In Frank MacCourt’s book Teacher, he has a page where he describes the bane of any English teacher’s existence—the grading of papers. He says it so well. I wanted to copy that page and send it to all my relatives so maybe they could finally understand what my life has been like.

By Lisa B.

November 22, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

There is no way I can outsource the grading of my students’ writing assignments. My language lessons are driven by what I see, or don’t see, in my students’ work. For example, last year my students were weak overall on paragraph structure. When that was determined to be a consistent weakness throughout 4th grade, the 3rd grade teachers spent more time on that area. Consequently, this year, paragraph structure isn’t an area of weakness, but this year’s students have lots of trouble with subject-verb agreement. I wouldn’t know that if I didn’t read their work daily. If I assumed the same lessons I used last year would work again this year, I would be failing to properly educate my students.

No outsourcing for me.

By kaa

November 22, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

I teach high school math and I have never envied English or History teachers for that matter.

Outsoursing grading is not a good idea. Teachers grade papers to learn about their students. Teachers don’t or rather shouldn’t give assignments for busy work. Each assignment should have some value.

By Molly

November 22, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

I suppose it is possible that there is some writing happening in my child’s classroom, but I saw no evidence at last week’s parent-teacher conference. I am in the school on a routine basis, so I am aware of work that is posted in the classroom. No book reports or essays have been assigned, no in-class writing has come home. There have been a very few “journal entries” assigned, but there is no requirement that they are ever revised or edited, so the children never receive any meaningful feedback that might help them improve their writing. When I review returned work (homework, classwork and tests)I do not see anything that leads me to believe that writing is being taught. After all, it isn’t on the CRCT so it must not be important.

By Elaine

November 22, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

I’m a former high school English teacher and what everyone’s saying is true: the paperload is insurmountable. It is necessary, but almost impossible to assess all the writing well, and to always have top-notch in-class lessons. I regularly found myself disappointed in the caliber of one or the other. I am now a stay-at-home mom and can’t imagine how I’d go back to the job with kids. My hat is off to anyone who’s teaching full time high school English with kids at home.

Some things that would help the situation, and our kids’ learning, but not break the bank:

While these would cost some money; it’s do-able. Think about it. You’ve got 6 English teachers teaching 5 classes each—30 classes of 30 kids each, 900 kids total. Just hiring two more teachers would enable them all to teach only 4 classes a day, with only 28 in a class. This would take English teachers’ student load down from 150 to 112, and give them an extra hour to assess their learning.

This kind of math makes administrative types’ heads spin, but we’re not talking about lowering ratios across the board, just in one department. We’re talking about 2 more teachers in a whole faculty of over 100. Many metro schools’ budgets could absorb it in other places. If they were allowed to, school foundations would/could fund it. I know many, many History and Foreign Language teachers who would applaud the move, too. We will all benefit when kids are more literate.

Requiring fewer assignments is not an option. The kids need the practice. Outsourcing it is not an option either. We must have true assessment- and data-driven instruction.

By Lisa B.

November 24, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this

Molly makes a good point that writing isn’t very important on the CRCT. I think there may be a couple of questions about steps in the writing process. I have sometimes questioned the wisdom of spending an entire hour per day on writing. When students are also required to pass the Science and Social Studies sections of the CRCT, I definitely will have to let writing slide. We only have so many hours in the day. I wonder when someone in charge will figure out the school day is not long enough to cram in everything required. My students have commented that the school day feels like a race against the clock. I agree!

By SET

November 24, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

I’m glad my outsourcing comment got the feedback it did. The readers still don’t realize the deteriorating position they are in and cling to the past.

I’m certaininly not saying the teachers would not read the papaers at all. I’m saying that the schools are going to be run like a business or (gasp) like a college. If the teachers are complaining about not having the time to process the student’s papers in a reasonable amount of time there is no reason why that can’t be outsourced to teacher’s assistants, retired or sub teachers, Ireland or India or wherever. The point is to get it done and don’t work till midnight either.

As long as you cling to the past you will never innovate and will let other people and other institutions pass you by.As a group you sound like the Smith-Corona Typewriter Factory workers and management.

As I have said before, it’s only a mattter of time till we see the rise of Internet High Schools. I recently spent (an expensive!) long weekend in Los Angeles. And not in Bel Air either. Try the Encino/Sherman Oaks area. The houses looked affordable but they were in the high six figures. I sat with parents from the area and we talked about the public school system among other things (crime was mentioned).

Nobody even knows anyone who sends their child to public secondary school. Primary schools are largely neighborhood schools and are still used. After that, it’s church or private. It doesn’t even seem to occur to these families to use the government secondary system due to a universal opinion that they aren’t really schools at all. These parents are universally 4 year degreed or higher. They expect their children - even the dull ones - to get a 4 year degree. But it’s very expensive. Most of these families had money but only 2 kids and the mothers worked in creative well paid jobs. For example one woman I spoke with was a Network News Producer. When I was young nearly every family grouping had 4 kids with Irish families often more than that.

These families are ripe for an Internet alternative.

Back to topic. The state school teachers can’t simultaneously complain that they have little time to give writing assignments for lack of time to grade them and complain that outsourcing grading is bad.

Frankly, if you don’t get your productivity up you will go the way of the buggy whip factory workers and the Smith-Corona Typewriter Factory workers. You are already in an industry that on the West Coast is marginalized and demographically is in trouble. Your products are becoming as downmarket as Ford and Chrysler’s.

Public Schools cannot go on thinking and behaving the way they do for very much longer. It’s not just the writing assignment quandry (and the related multiple choice tests - easy to grade), it’s the dislike of any change or response to market demand that makes me question the viability of the public schools.

By luvs2teach

November 24, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

SET - For the record, I am a science teacher, so what I say can be taken with a grain of salt…I know that the few times I have had “helpers” grade my work, I’ve often had to go back and fix mistakes - and that’s purely objective material, not something as subjective as essay grading.

The “internet high school” revolution has already begun in my area. Most of the m,ajor school systems offer “e-high school” classes. As a parent, and someone who has taken several online classes, I would not be against my child taking one of these classes, but it takes someone who is very organized, has good time managemnet skills, and is a good independent worker. Not all HS students fit that criteria.

Second, online essay grading is also available, but the software, like so much other educational software is not perfect, and lacks a “human” element, if you know what I mean. Language Arts teachers that use it find that they often have to regrade. This would be wonderful if it could be perfected.

As a parent, I would be upset if my children’s work was “outsourced.” Tests like the Georgia writing assessment and AP exams are outsourced - however, they are graded by at least three people - is that really feasible? As a taxpayer, I think it would be hard to convince other taxpayers to pay for “teaching assistants” expecially given the fact that the public in general already views teaching as a “cushy, summers-off, what are you complaining about” kind of job.

A large part of the problem is trying to cram too much into one day, one subject, one year. Someone’s solution of smaller and fewer classes is a good one. I would add fewer meetings, less CYA paperwork, and fewer “solution du jour” programs being implemented.

I’m for changing the status quo - keep moving forward, as it were, but I’m not sure pure outsourcing is the answer - at least not what’s currently available.

By SarahG

November 28, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

My husband has taught senior English in a large NC high school for 24 years. In our system, in order to graduate every senior has to complete a senior project that involves choosing a subject and a community mentor, documenting time with the mentor, creating visuals and a project notebook, and turning in (three revisions of) a 10 page research paper on the subject - then presenting a 10 minute speech before a panel of three community volunteers. The relevance here is that every semester, he has three revisions of 90-100 10-page papers to grade, in addition to papers on poetry and fiction. Yes, he reads every one. Yes, he went to school every day of the holiday except Thanksgiving itself (including Sunday), for 3-4 hours each day. He heads a department of 23 other teachers, and saw most of them at school during the holiday also.

This is the only way to teach writing - for students to write and write and write, and for teachers to read and read and read. Teaching is not an 8-3 job, not a 40 hour a week job. It’s a calling, and in business jargon it’s a salaried position, not hourly. If you take the job, you put in the hours it takes to do it right! Most teachers I know many night and weekend hours.