Get Schooled

By MMM

November 14, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

Maybe training in how to interact in a way that draws out young children (probably best provided by a mentor).

But a degree??? No way.

NAEYC is trying unionize childcare workers to get more pay. Haven’t we blogged enough that degrees do not equal competence in either teaching or admistration—-let’s not extend that false paradiam to toddlers. I want lower turnover, better toys, and a lower caregive/child ratio over pigskin for my money.

By Janine

November 14, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

As MMM says, Degrees do not equal competence and certainly do not assure a healthy environment for a pre-school/daycare child. “Back in the day” , before pre-school morphed into the “My 2 year old already knows how to multiply!” phase, mothers looked for clean, loving environments that offered play, proper nutrition, and lovingly attentive care for their young ones. Most were not interested in workbooks and drills for their 2,3,and 4 year olds. Most of the kids did just fine. I think the qualities in a care giver for pre-schoolers have not changed and no degree is needed. However, there are two distinct types of pre-schools. The type mentioned above and the academically oriented one…If one wants his/her child drilled in academics at a young age, I think one must be willing to pay for a degreed teacher.

By Lisa B.

November 14, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

Those lay the foundation for our children’s educations have a profound impact on how children view education the rest of their lives. This foundation is laid by parents and teachers. I believe it is very important for all children to have well-trained teachers, even in preschool. The training doesn’t necessarily have to be a four-year degree, but should include child development courses.

By hll1955

November 14, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

Certainly a preschool or daycare needs to be staffed with teachers who speak well, read aloud well, know how to manage time, and manage children well. Having a degree does not guarantee those attributes.

Certification keeps the cost down for parents, and allows those teachers who perhaps can’t afford the time or the cost of a college degree to do what they love to do…educate and mold young minds.

My daughter worked in a daycare center for several years. She is now a mother herself and interviewed 10 or more centers before selecting 2 as acceptable for her child. More important than teachers with degrees is cleanliness, teacher to child ratio and security. She went to one, walked in the door, right into a classroom and wasn’t stopped or questioned by any employee. Another had one of the teachers in the baby room walking around in bare feet.

A teaching degree won’t make those schools better, new management might!

By Janine

November 14, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this

At the risk of repeating something I have mentioned here before…More than a few years ago, a colleague and I observed more and more students already reading when they entered 1st grade [most do now, of course]. We did an informal study and found that by 3rd grade, one could not distinguish the ones who arrived already reading from the ones who did not. The playing field leveled out by 3rd grade. I think that we are becoming too focused on pushing our young children to commit to memory the ABC’s and 123’s and not focused enough on allowing them to learn social skills, creativity through play, and values through storytime and experience.For the latter, the teacher does not need a degree !!

By FCM

November 14, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

YES, YES, and did I say YES

By FCM

November 14, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

Now to tell you why…I am ill with hearing the horrible GRAMMER, and the inablity to SPELL etc that is being done by the daycare workers. Pay them more, give them benefits…currently it is a menial job at best. Yet it a vital and important one when you consider most children spend 8-12 hours a DAY in these people’s presence. It just depends on whether you want mass babysitting or actual learning.

By FCM

November 14, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

One last comment…Daycares should be STATE subsidized like the public schools…making it affordable….I paid nearly $1000/month just in aftercare! That is about one paycheck in my house!

By Sorry to nitpick, couldn't resist

November 14, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

Quote: the horrible GRAMMER, and the inablity to SPELL.

By waterbug24

November 14, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

I believe that a bachelors degree is not necessary for 6 weeks to 4 year olds, but from pre-k on, a bachelors degree is a must. However, in a perfect world, a preschool teacher would have an associates degree in early childhood education, belong to a professional organization such as NAEYC (it was a wonderful conference, btw, learned alot), stay up to date on current research in the field, use appropriate developmental practices(not worksheets) and be paid accordingly. Right now, wages are low, training is almost non-existant, and it is considered a job not a profession. I have had the opportunity, through my masters degree, to visit several childcare centers. I have been reasonably impressed with the programs in my area, but did find some staffing issues that concerned me. I have also seen the Child Development Center at Jacksonville State University in Alabama, where every teacher and many of the assistants have at minimum a bachelors degree from 6 weeks up. The quality at the JSU center is phenomenal compared to other centers. However, the JSU center is subsidized by the college, who uses it for teacher practicums, nurse training, and physical education students training. If the government were to get involved the way JSU has, our children would be much more prepared for school and the world ahead of them.

By Janine

November 14, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

How far we are from the time when the children of the wealthy and privileged and many of the great minds in America were cared for by African American nannies who could neither read nor write. Warm, healthy, loving care coupled with exposure to the world around them works quite well. Although, I do recognize that the current curriculum in 1st grade has undergone quite a change and assumes that a child will arrive with certain academic skills. Most children do,of course, but in my experience, it has been at the expense of social skills and common cultural values.

By hll1955

November 14, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

FCM..hiring well spoken, literate staff is the sole responsibility of the owner/manager of each facility. As I mentioned above, my daughter interviewed 10 or more daycare centers and walked out of 8 of them.

A customer of mine was telling me a horror story from the afterschool program at her children’s elementary school. (these are teachers with degrees, on school property no less). She came to pick up her kids around 5:30 or so. It was absolute madness with parents visiting with each other, kids swarming and talking at the top of their lungs, everyone crowded into a small office gathering papers, bookbags, coats and belongings, teachers cleaning up the room etc. Her kids spotted her and without any fuss walked out the door and they got in the car and left. No one checked them out. No one asked for ID, not one person even noticed who collected the kids. This was her first week so there wasn’t even the excuse that everyone knew who she was. She questioned the manager the following day and excuses were made and she was promised that “that never happens” it must have been a fluke, someone was out sick..etc.

Later in the week my customer’s father who was visiting from out of town, went to pick up the kids. He parked accross the street, walked into the office told the teacher there the kids names, and poof out the door they walked. Again no security check, no phone call to mom, no id verification…nothing. This time when my customer complained, she was told that she was being beligerent, and that she was welcome to take her kids elsewhere. That it was a “priviledge” to attend this afterschool program, and if she didn’t like it, she could leave.

She did.

Every parent MUST visit, interview, revisit any school that you are considering putting your child in. Meet with the teacher who will be in the class with your child. If they don’t speak with good grammar, pass.

FCM is correct..your child will come home speaking like his teacher. You will hear, “but mom, Miss Debbie says ‘ain’t’ all the time!” or “Miss Debbie is ‘fixin’ to take us to the zoo” or worse yet, “Miss Debbie told me to ‘AXE’ you…”. You have to be prepared to say, “we don’t say ain’t, or fixin in our home. The word is “ask” not “axe”, and I don’t care how Miss Debbie says it.” You must provide the strongest influence for your child, but you must also be prepared to move your kids to another day care no matter how low the cost is, or how convenient it is to work or home. If the facility doesn’t meet your standards go elsewhere.

By Stacey

November 14, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

My son attended a NAEYC accredited daycare and remained there for pre-k. The primary pre-k teachers had associate degrees (not sure of field) but the assistant teachers and those in the daycare classes were only required to have certificates. I am very pleased (impressed, actually) with both the care and education he received at the center.

The starting pay for the daycare workers was no more than fast food or convienence store workers. I don’t know what the pre-k teachers are paid but I’m sure it’s more. In my opinion, they are grossly underpaid for the level of responsibility they have. The turnover was high but his care didn’t suffer.

By Jim in Marietta

November 14, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

The public schools (what a success story!) are bursting at the seams with certified teachers. Parents need to be educated on the matter of “free” public education. In brief, you get what you pay for at all grade levels. Go ahead and add requirements for certified teachers at the pre-school level if it makes you feel good. The system does not work now and it will not serve children any better by making that change.

By Elaine

November 14, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

We’re talking about three different things here, but moving freely among them—preschool, daycare, and K-12 school.

First off, preschool and daycare are not the same thing. My four-year-old daughter attends a half-day preschool 3 days a week. We have chosen to send her there and we pay for it. It is not expensive and the teachers have no certification. It does not receive any government money. It is solely private and we have selected it for her for our own reasons, most of which relate to learning to socialize—sharing, taking turns, listening well, respecting teachers, etc.

I am a stay-at-home mom. My husband and I raise our children. We do not send them 10+ hours a day to be raised by a daycare center. We do, however see a benefit to the preschool environment for her at this point, before she attends public school next year. I do not think that the government needs to certify (i.e. regulate) teachers in this environment. It is a quality program and because it is, people choose it and it stays afloat. If it was not a quality program, it wouldn’t survive.

On the other hand, daycare is a totally different thing. I do understand that others are not in our same situation and need to send their children to daycare. I understand that it can be extremely expensive. I also understand that a great deal of it is government subsidized, which I am all for. Then, if our government is going to be subsidizing a service to children, there have to be checks and balances. When parents are leaving their children there, they’re expecting a certain level of competency/professionalism and can’t at the drop of a hat pull their kids out—for financial, logistical reasons. (Preschool isn’t that way. If I’m only sending my kid a few half-days a week, to pull her out if we’re displeased is not that big of a deal.) On the flip-side, I don’t think this certifcation has to be an education degree (one of which I personally hold). Training in child development, nutrition and safety would be very beneficial for someone working with preschool-aged children in a daycare environment.

I agree with what some of the posters above are saying—let’s quit focusing so much on “academics” with infants through 4-year-olds. A basic course in brain development will let you know that it’s time wasted and possibly opportunity lost.

Back to my original point: “Preschool” and “Daycare” are not the same thing. Some people who are choosing to send their kids to all-day “daycare” are choosing to call it “Preschool” because it makes them feel better, or it makes the daycare center able to charge higher rates because it calls itself a “school.” But, I’m sorry, a 13-month-old does not, and cannot, go to “school.” It’s daycare. Let’s call it what it is. Are babies learning and devleoping? Yes. Can a trained person or certified person help that child better than one who is not? Maybe. Is it best for a small child to be in daycare, away from home and family, 60+ hours a week? No, regardless of the “teacher’s” credentials.

I guess what’s realy most disturbing to me about this topic is my underlying fear that with certification, people will somehow get a false sense of security that these centers are giving their small children something they, as parents, can’t. Let’s do all we can to encourage parents to be responsible for their own children and evaluating/choosing their children’s care options.

p.s. Not to excuse the scary after school program situation explained by hll above, but a large majority of the people working in-school after school programs are not certified teachers. The teachers are planning their lessons for the next day. These are extra people hired specifically for this purpose. They should be trained to follow proper procedure, but they aren’t certified teachers.

By abc

November 14, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

I find it ironic that parents would seek qualities in day care workers that they themselves don’t possess, i.e. specific formal training in child development, etc. Does day care not exist because income requirements demand that both parents work? What does a day care need to be other than clean, safe, happy and interesting place? Oh yeah, affordable!

People who want day care to be a pre-school that has kindergarten starting when the kid is 2 years old are just nuts! Give the kid a break, let them just be a kid for a minute, at least.

By Lois

November 14, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

The most important thing that young children learn in daycare or preschool is hot to get along with others. This is the best foundation for the rest of your life. Learning to spell, read, etc. in preschool does not guarantee success in life, not even success in future grades, but learning to share and how to be a friend will be with you forever. The most important qualities in a preschool teacher are not things that are taught in a college curriculum: patience, caring, and everyday problem-solving. Kids under 6 or 7 should not be learning algebra; they should be playing games, doing crafts, learning basic life skills, making mud pies, and playing hide and seek. This generation of “must have a perfect, machine-manufactured, 4.0 kid” parents is scary. It will backfire eventually. Let’s let kids be kids.

By Lois

November 14, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

Excuse me. My original post should have read “the most important thing that young children learn in daycare is ‘how’ to get along with others. My bad.

By DA

November 14, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

IN TODAY’S SOCIETY CHILD DEVELOPMENT HAS BECOME MORE SPECIALIZED, CHILDREN ARE EXPECTED TO ACHIEVE CERTAIN LEVELS AT SUCH YOUNG AGES, THEREFORE TEACHES ARE EXPECTED TO HELP THEM OBTAIN THE GOALS SET BY SCHOOL DISTRICTS WITH THE FEDERAL MANDATE OF NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND.

By SET

November 14, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

Love the posts…

One of the main reasons to require an undergraduate degree is to limit the kinds of people allowed to work with children. For example, requiring a 4 year degree of any kind would sharply decrease the number of blacks allowed to work in any field. Same point for Mexicans, etc.

Even better, require a state license. Licensure is a great way to limit the number and type of employees into any field. A typical scheme would require fingerprints and background (security clearance) at a minimum. That will knock out a whole class of people from the classroom! If that doesn’t thin the herd enough you can require a year or two of internship, maybe unpaid, which will get rid of a lot of people we don’t need like the single mothers and such that can’t afford to work a year or two for free.

We see these schemes implemented in many other occupations such as police officer. In CA it takes nearly a year to get hired and in a very few cities a 4 year degree is required, ensuring a workforce of “a certain type”.

Now is this such a bad thing?

Besides, it will drive up the salary costs a lot. You’ll have to pay real money to hire anyone who can get through all the screens because there will be relatively few of them for a lot of positions to be filled. Just like our $100K+ Nurses.

Do you really think you can get away with this scheme for workers in a politically correct government nuthouse - in this job market? College Graduate day care workers in government kindergarten? Check out the dollars it now takes to get a 4 year degree and follow that trend out 5 more years.

Brave New World!

By SET

November 14, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

An additional thought… News Flash… the students who go to the public schools in many urban settings do not carry the budget for that kind of payroll. Simply put, the kids are not seen as worth spending this kind of $$ on. The money doesn’t fall from heaven. In CA for one we have Prop 13 which limits increases in taxes - so the state and school districts can’t “print” money anymore.

Any scheme that will run up expenses gets laughed out of the room around here. Unless there is a new revenue stream (from WA DC perhaps?) tied to the plan it’s D.O.A.

By Broken Record

November 14, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this

Standard English would be worth requiring, but good luck with that, even if they have degrees!

By Marta

November 15, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this

I could care less about whether a preschool teacher has a college degree, but I do expect that he or she speaks standard, grammatically correct English and is actively engaging the children in conversation. I have visited preschools and daycares where the adults never seem to speak to the children expect to give a command.

By Stacey

November 15, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this

I seem to be in the minority here, but I see nothing wrong with kids learning at an early age. My son’s daycare center offered a clean, safe, nurturing environment where the kids learned not only cooperation, but how to spell their names. They were taught using music, song and dance. (If they can learn “The Barney Song” or “Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star”, why can’t they learn their colors or the months of the year?

I always asked my son what he did at “school” and he always said that he did nothing but played. He would then teach me the new song they sang in which he learned the days of the weeks or something of that sort. I, for one, am pleased that I sent him there.

By HB

November 15, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

Stacey, it sounds like your son’s daycare struck a nice balance and kept learning fun and not stressful. MAny years back, when I asked the 3-year-old boy I babysat what he did at Montessori, he very grumpily said, “We work. sigh And we stay on task.” His youngest brother had a much better experience at a preschool that was probably more like your son’s and seemed to learn just as much there as his brother had in the more rigorous setting.

By Stacey

November 15, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this

HB…Yes, it was a very good center. He’s in kindergarten now but he still does the “Macarena” when he names the months of the year because that’s how they taught them. My friend sent her daughter to an in-home (licensed) daycare and she said they played with toys and watch videos all day. She could definitely tell the difference when her daughter started kindergarten but she was caught up second grade.

By luvs2teach

November 20, 2006 06:22 PM | Link to this

I think directors of centers should have Master’s degree in Early childhood education, whether it’s a pre-school or a daycare. Lead teachers for Pre-K and up should have at least a two year, but preferably a 4 year degree (I believe teachers for the Georgia Pre-K program have 4 year degrees).

It would be great if the other teachers could have 2 - 4 year degrees, but I realize that may be cost-prohibitive. At the minimum though, I feel the state should require, and parents should insist on, ALL workers (preschool or daycare) be First Aid and CPR certified, and have coursework in basic child development and proper safety and hygiene measures.

I do think that it’s more important to reduce turnover and lower student-teacher ratios.