Get Schooled

By jim d

November 9, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

37.2% success rate ain’t bad.

I think anything that helps some of these kids find a purpose in life is a good thing. Let’s continue to watch how it works out.

By MMM

November 9, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

Yea! I’d also call that success for the individual kids still in the program. Now how many times will they have to multiply it to catch 1% of our total number of dropouts?

It also seems to imply that this is a “program” with other funding than traditional schools? Be interesting to know whether their attitude of “do the work or go elsewhere” is unconstrained by NCLB.

By SET

November 9, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

The more choice the better. I have a friend who’s youngest child did a 9 year prison term in his early 20’s (after his 5th felony case…). He got into vocational training in CA state prison system and is an ironworker now. His first heavy construction job was arranged by a parole officer years ago. He’s consistently out of trouble for the first time in his life.

He had dropped out of high school due to absenteeism and a shotgun marriage. He and his 2nd ex were failed drug dealers (got caught all the time). I wonder if things would have been different if he had discovered heavy construction sooner. He was never classroom material, but he’s good with heavy iron.

Academic education is not for everyone and not for even a majority of some groups. A good mix of vocational ed is critically important in Urban Education to keep kids connected to society at large. And I’d hope that students are permitted to take both subjects at once, not to have to make an all or nothing choice at age 14 or 15.

A long time ago most of the HBCs had high schools - often with the students living on campus. Our Jr College has a high school although it’s not advertised and enrollment is by application. Much of the high end vocational training goes on at the Jr. College (Nursing, Police & Prison Guard, Electron Microscopy, Auto Mechanics, etc.).

Perhaps the Jr Colleges (with their greater facilities and budgets, and lack of discipline problems) can take a greater role in voc ed from the 10th grade up. Certainly they pay and treat their teachers better.

The more choice the better.

By sue

November 9, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

I think it is fantastic. Not all kids are cut out for college, why not teach them the skills of a trade and give them an opportunity to become gainfully employed (some of them will end up making more money in construction than a lot of college graduates will make)? Plus, if they are working for Habitat for Humanity they are helping others. I think it’s a no-loose situation.

By Joy in teaching

November 9, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

Wonderful! It’s time for high schools to do more than pay lip service to vocational education and actually begin to teach these kids a trade as well as improve their reading, writing, and math skills.

Back when I taught high school,there was one math teacher in particular who referred to vocational students as “those who don’t really matter because they can’t cut it in college.” (That teacher was later acknowledged as being an outstanding teacher which just made me want to cringe.) It’s that type of one-size-fits-all approach to education that encourages kids to drop out in the first place.

By Broken Record

November 9, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

This program sounds excellent. Actually, I think ALL kids would benefit by learning in high school about trades, including electrical, plumbing, construction, autos, and cooking and sewing (aka home-ec). These are skills we can all use as adults. If all kids were exposed to trades, then the ones who have talents would discover their gifts and pursue them.

By Broken Record

November 9, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

This progeram looks excellent! In fact I think that ALL HS kids should take at least a survey course in the trades, learning a little about electical wiring, plumbing, construction, auto maintenance, wood and metal working. We all need to have some knowledge in these areas as adults. The students who have a talent would discover their gift and then could develop it into a career. The rest of the students would at least have a working knowledge so they could deal with household maintenance and repairs.

By OldSchool

November 9, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

Have any of you folks been to many of the comprehensive high schools around the state? “Vocational” programs exist! We really do! Here at my South Georgia high school we have Agriculture and Horticulture, Ag Mechanics, Young Farmer, Metals, Construction Trades, Automotive, Health Careers, Technology, various Business courses, and my Engineering Drawing program. We call them CTAE.

Granted many programs have been eliminated (one of the very best all-round programs was Industrial Arts…talk about teaching craftsmanship!) Unfortunately, funding for updating equipment has not kept up with changing technologies.

This spring, make it a point to go watch the amazing competition in the SkillsUSAaa contests at the regional and state level. High school kids are making dentures, plumbing houses, creating advertising, demonstrating law enforcement techniques, displaying culinary skills, speaking extemporaneously and from prepared material, and doing a host of other skill and leadership event that will knock your socks off. Go to skillsusa.org and look for your state’s website.

By MMM

November 9, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

Below is a link to their website:

http://www.forestparkstreetschool.com/funding.html

THIS IS NOT A PUBLIC SCHOOL PROGRAM. If you look at their history and funding sources it appears that they have never gotten any monies from any of the “traditional” pubic school sources—-it is simply private foundations and the government agencies that are trying to keep folks out of jail doing what ever is necessary to save some of the young adults that would otherwise cost society a great deal more in jail.

So the real question is—-do our educational leaders have the will to also do whatever it takes? These people are the true believers in not leaving children behind. Yet I can think of many reasons why this type of program would never fly in today’s public school culture.

By jim d

November 9, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

Old school,

Just a guess on my part but I’d think one would be hard pressed to find those opportunities in school systems like Gwinnett, Dekalb or Cobb. Not a whole lotta farmin goin on round here ya know. These systems are geared to send every student on to college regardless if they want to go.

By JustMe

November 9, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

I think that all school systems should be required to offer these programs and to inform students of their options. Many school systems (and mine is one) seems to try and keep it a secret while shuffling all students into a college prep track. At my high school, there is no wood shop, no metal shop, no automotive courses, or nothing of the sort - what a shame.

By OldSchool

November 9, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

Look again, jim dear. Many vocational programs are out there…even in Gwinnett, Dekalb and Cobb! Take a look at Heritage High, Maxwell High, and the tech centers in Dekalb. You will be amazed.

By MMM

November 9, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

Dekalb does have a charter that funnels dropouts and potential dropouts back into a high school completion/community college program. See below:

http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/schools/centers/collegegateway/

Dekalb has a bunch of two year programs that lead to certification for various jobs—-so this might be considered another “big city” approach to those that balk at the traditional College tract. It is really designed for kids that were competent, but not interested who dropped out—but realize fairly quickly that dropping out was a bad idea.

By jim d

November 9, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

ok, i’ll give you that one dear, but they sure don’t advertise them all that well.

By jim d

November 9, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, and where’s the farmer thing being taught in these schools?

By Elaine

November 9, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

Correction Jim D. - it seems to me some counties you mentioned have an additional track - sending thousands of kids to an “alternative school” and then watch them drop out. We all know where that leads most kids.

By jim d

November 9, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

So MMM,

One has to be a drop out to be offered an alternative education? See, there’s where I have a problem.

By jim d

November 9, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

Gee Elaine, I stand corrected. However, I still consider a technical track an alternative to a more traditional or CP track.

I may be showing my age a bit here but what the hey. When I was in school, a very long time ago in place far far away, we were offered things like shops and Ag classes in a standard school setting right beside the kids that were college bound. A lot of the college bound kids also took these shop and ag classes as electives. Of course way back then many of the larger universities were really focused on the ag based sciences so taking these courses in HS kind of helped.

Just as an observation; more than a few of the city kids became farmers and I know of several of the country hicks that made small fortunes in technology.

The problem with education today is really it focuses on a narrower more limited range of subjects. We were exposed to a wider variety of choices (in the good ol days)and recieved a more rounded education.

But then thats just my humble opinon.

By Elaine

November 9, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

Jim D - I was being sarcastic in my note. I agreed with your post - the vocational path is an option, just not one we use very often. We use the “disciplinary alternative track” as an alternative.

By jim d

November 9, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this

While I’m on my soap box.

When a 13 year old today decides to go a technical track or a cp track he’s pretty much locked in.

How many of you teachers knew at the ripe old age of 13-14 that you wanted to be teachers?

I dare say that if many of you were to be honest, you didn’t decide on a teaching career until about you 3rd or 4th quarter of college. Yet today we expect a 13 year old to be capable of making that type of life long choice in the 9th grade. Might this be a problem?

By OldSchool

November 9, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

I’ll bite, jim dear. I’m female and was in high school when girls were required to take Home Ec and boys took IA or Ag. I bucked the system and became (thank you, Daddy!) the first female shop student at my school. I had been helping put up grain bins with my dad for years and knew my way around power tools.

If ANY student plans his or her high school program of study carefully, he or she can get the best of both worlds. The biggest difference between a college prep and tech prep diploma is the foreign language requirement. A kid can take a full complement of cp courses AND tech electives and meet the requirements to get a college prep diploma with a tech prep endorsement. My girls did. Both are college grads.

I was forced to take French in high school to get into the college of my choice and my major- Industrial Arts Education- did not require a single course in any language other than English…unless you count Physics.

I knew in the 7th grade that I would be a shop teacher. I just had to prove to everyone else I was serious.

If a 13 year old has parents who are truly involved in all the right ways, he or she can certainly start planning and working towards a specific career goal at that young age. I did. My husband did. Both our girls did. Our youngest did change her major…slightly. She changed from Recording Industry Engineering to Recording Industry Marketing and Promotions.

By fed up

November 9, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this

As long as NCLB and its ilk are around you can forget any significant amount of trades being taught.

The only learning that will matter is stuff that allows you to bubble in a test once a year. Forget learning things that can actually earn you a darned good living. Every kid shall learn Calculus and a bunch of inane literary works.

And our drop out rate will continue to increase.

No Child Left Behind - the only good thing about it is the title.

By Broken Record

November 10, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this

fed up, I even think the phrase, “No Child Left Behind” is full of negative images. I would prefer “Every Child Working to Potential.”

By jim d

November 10, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this

Old school,

“If ANY student plans his or her high school program of study carefully, he or she can get the best of both worlds.”

Agreed if they don’t mind traveling across the county to attend a school that offers these classes. Around here they are limited and require lengthy commutes.

Here in Gwinnett they do offer dual diplomas

Dual Diploma requirements

Under this diploma option, students must complete a minimum of 22 Carnegie units, along with other graduation requirements. Required coursework includes 4 language arts units, 4 math units, 3 science units, 3 social studies units, 1 health/PE unit, 2 modern/classical language units, 4 total technology/career prep units (3 from one technical area and 1 from a related technical field), and 1 elective unit (computer technology, fine arts, tech/career prep elective, or modern/classical language). Students (and parents) should work with their advisor to develop a four-year plan of study to meet these requirements. Contact your middle or high school guidance counselor to learn more.

If a student takes a three hour techno course at a school like Maxwell and continues with his/her cp courses at their regular attendance school it would be difficult at best to attain the necessary credits for this diploma since an hour commting time would not be unusal. Of course with “carefull planning” one could manage by doing on line courses and summer school.

Oh yeah, High school is fun nowadays.

By jim d

November 10, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

Broken record,

Fraid I don’t much care for “Every Child Working to Potential.” either.

Webster’s defines potential as 1 : existing in possibility : capable of development into actuality.

I think I prefer a child grow as a complete person, rather than a fact regurgitating little robot. I want to see children grow in creativity, clarity, health and success. Having fun doing it. This just isn’t possible with our current educational system and the fads being instituted by educrats. The pressure we are putting on kids today eliminates the possibility of having fun, dampens their natural spirits and curiosity, and creates an unprecedented amount of stress on children that really aren’t mentally prepared to handle it.

Perhaps we should just eliminate all the old clichés. Or just say “kids doing as good as they want to but having a hell of a good time doing it” Whatta think?

By OldSchool

November 10, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this

jim dear, maybe my world down here in the bottom part of the state really is different from yours up there. Maybe there is a distinct difference in kids as well.

We are on block schedule and students have to earn a minimum 28 units to graduate. Block gives them the potential to earn 32 units which gives them 4 units of wiggle room.

I am fortunate that most (definitely not all) of my students are bright and do make an effort. Many will flunk at least one course; some will flunk 2 or more. I also have a couple of 5th year seniors on roll during some semesters.

The opportunities are there…if a kid CHOOSES to take advantage. Heck, they can even change their minds about cp or techprep if they do it in a timely manner.

I wonder if we couldn’t graduate more if we brought back the “D.” I have a really hard time with the jump from Average: 70 to Failing: 69. I miss the old Below Average: 60-69.

By Ernest

November 10, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

SET @ 2:40 is right on again! In DeKalb, they have placed ‘career tech’ rooms in several HSs with hopes of expanding this if funds are available. This combined with 2 regional tech schools that provide ‘heavy tech’ instruction provides more options. It would be nice if there was a greater and more transparent collaboration with the community college as a supplement.

IMO, we need to begin exposing children to votech options as early as ES. The objective should be to create awareness and point out options NOT to force them to make a choice at that time.