Get Schooled

By momandteacher

November 1, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

I think this is a great question! I don’t necessarily think that the desire to do well has disappeared, I just think that as a soiciety, we are pushing our kids in too many directions. So many parents want their kids to be successful academically, athletically, musically, socially…the list goes on and on. Let’s think about this for a minute. As adults, are we all talented athletes, musicians, neuroscientists, authors and social hosts? Of course not, but it seems that many parents want all of that for their kids. How many 8 year olds on the baseball team are their because their dads want them to play? How many kids are in the middle school band because their parents insist? I agree that we should expose our kids to many opportunities, and avenues of study. There comes a point, however, when we must be respectful of their natural talents and desires. I am a huge fan of Dr. Mel Levine, a Harvard educated pediatrition who works with students to help them find their talents and use those strength to be successful in school and in life. Essentially, all of our brains are wired differently. The band instructor has a brain wired to understand and have a passion for music. Quite possibly, the young clarinet player would be better suited to the science lab or the art studio.
I recommend Dr. Levine’s site and books as must reads for all parents and educators. I really think he has the key…..

http://allkindsofminds.org/

By Zoe

November 1, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this

This comes from the idea of telling kids “they are all special.” The everyone gets a trophy mentality has spilled over into the classroom and turned into the everyone gets an A mentality. It is like the movie “The Incredibles” (I read this somewhere- do not give me credit for this) When the son points out “When everyone is special, no one is special.” This was in reference to “handicapping” those who could so that those who could not were allowed to compete.

By Jim in Marietta

November 1, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

“Where has the desire to do well gone? Where has the desire to do well, because it is expected and you want to, gone?”

It is dead in the public school pupil as surely as the pathetic public school system set out to make it. Desire in the public school pupil is dead because the public school system isn’t about fostering desire. It never was. Read anything written by John Taylor Gatto and the book Punished by Rewards for some enlightenment. Desire is self motivated.

“At what point do we hold students (and parents) responsible for their learning and education?”

I am 100% responsible for my children’s education. Not only is it my responsibility as a parent, it is my God given right to educate my children. When you give up the right to educate your children to the government, guess what? You get the public school system and you are entitled to everything that comes with it, and what you get out of it is generally a large percentage of non-motivated sheeple, who can’t think for themselves. And the ever popular saying, “Some people just can’t be fixed.” becomes truer by the day.

By Janine

November 1, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

I’m with Zoe The beginning of the “self esteem” infusion Cure du JOUR in our schoools and homes was the beginning of the decline of the desire to achieve and of the recognition of individual real achievers..Teachers are instructed to always find something good to say about a student’s work…to offer “opportunities to succees” even if that opportunity to receive an A is bringing a pencil to class….. In the days the band director refers to, students were recognized for achievement ..for meeting and exceeding REAL standards where the bar was set high…. Now it seems it’s politically INcorrect to point out a student or student[s] outstanding achiievement for fear of making another feel inferior. Back in “the day” only outstanding achievers got trophies and accolades. Why would a child want to put out the extra effort to “bedazzle” when the guy next to him gets the same recognition just for showing up. I think I might see an inkling of change on the horizon, though….

By OldSchool

November 1, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

It isn’t just in band that self-motivation is missing…it’s widespread. I spent all of second block listening to my students whine about their drawings and why they got a “Not Acceptable” instead of a grade. I responded that I didn’t have enough red ink to do an adequate job of marking errors (I teach drafting). A couple of the girls got busy and began redrawing the assignment. The boys just kept grousing and blaming each other. Go figure.

I’ve told them way too many times to listen to the suggestions and hints I give them; to do the drawings MY way (I really do know what I’m talking about) and to critique each other’s work before handing it in to be graded. What do they do? None of the above. I’ve had it with reteaching very basic skills and techniques. Once should be enough, twice if they truly need review or missed the initial lesson.

Altruism is dead. Satisfaction in a job well done no longer exists. It’s all about instant gratification and something for nothing and rewards for barely any effort at all.

The exceptions are rare and are treasured.

By teach

November 1, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

I’m also a trumpet player/band director and my kids have the same problem. Growing up they have had teachers sugar-coating everything so much that it’s hard for them when they actually do get a dose of reality. The must know when they do something well, but also must know when they need more work. Unfortunately when they get to me in high school, they have already been conditioned and freak out if I tell them something wasn’t good enough.

Of course, it also depends on the community they live in. In a small, rural community such as ours, parents are less involved and do not necessarily hold their kids to high standards. It is a constant battle for me to get my kids to WANT to be good. Maybe they have the desire, but they are not willing to work hard to be good. Again, because growing up everything has been handed to them.

I am constantly trying to find different ways to motivate them to work hard on their own.

By Dan

November 1, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

It can all be traced back to the fact that everybody makes PeeWee baseball. I am going to write a book one day and that is going to be the title. Why does every kid have to think he is good at everything. Understanding what you are good at by not succeeding at everything is an important thing. By lowering the bar on everything it makes kids half a_ _ everything and still succeed. Why should they try hard? We set them up to succeed anyway reguardless of how hard they try. We do it in sports, we do it in school and we do it with respect to how they behavior. ‘It all starts with my son not learning at PeeWee baseball that perhaps soccer would be a better sport for him.’

By Stacey

November 1, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

I agree with Zoe & Dan. The “everyone’s equal and wonderful” mentality that we are teaching our kids hinders them in a lot of ways.

Last week, my son’s school had an awards ceremony for the first nine weeks’ work. Everybody won a certificate for something. Even if they failed academically, they won a “I Tried” award. The certificates were the same with exception of one word. When I congratulated my son for his awards, he said “__ won one too and he always acts up in and doesn’t even know his ABC’s”.

When I was in school, it was a big deal to be on the Honor Roll (pretty much required in my home) and it had to be earned. Straight A’s but unsatisfactory in conduct meant no Honor Roll. Awards Day was annual, not quarterly so you had to keep up the good work all year. The “Star Student” award went to “the sun”, not each star in the galaxy.

By MMM

November 1, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

For some reason, I just don’t feel inspired by this particular topic. I think that the observation that the kids aren’t self-motivated to learn and try is true in some places and some strata of society. It makes sense that since school assignment and attitudes toward effort and learning also corelate to SES that some teachers may see what they feel is a broad pattern of “I don’t care any more” in all the kids they see.

But, remember Fonzy on “Happy Day’s”? He made a career of being uninterested—-it was called “being cool”. That’s not new. What about the book recently reviewed in the AJC about burnt out kids that are striving too hard. It sounds like that teacher just isn’t in the right school to have the other extreme present in her classroom.

By fed up

November 1, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Everyone here is right on!

I am still thanking the teacher this year who finally gave my kid the F (a big one in red pen I might add) she deserved on a project. My daughter was shocked because she is used to getting As for no apparent reason. The best part was when she came to me for sympathy, and I just chuckled and told her that…finally, a teacher was grading her fairly! I also emailed the teacher to thank her and to get a handle on what she needed my kid to do to improve.

You would be amazed at the difference in my kid’s motivation and responsibility since then. She no longer gets all As like she used to .. but the ones she gets she has earned.

Parents need to quit bullying teachers and adminsitrators and realize that the world does not think that their kid is nearly as clever as they think their kid is. Teachers need to quit being intimidated by parents, and administrators need to stand up for the teachers who are willing to stand up to helicopter parents who think their kids can do no wrong.

Then we will get kids who don’t think that they are entitled to success because they are “special.”

By V for Vendetta

November 1, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

Parents and self esteem boosting are to blame. Maybe if more kids realized they are more or less idiots half of the time, they would try a little harder not to be. Heck, I’m an idiot half of the time… then again, everyone knows that!

By Janine

November 1, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

It’s all such a struggle, isn’t it?? One could really get depressed if one allowed oneself that luxury! The things we discuss here are so important,but we have absolutely no control. I once read of schools where the teachers decided what was best for the students in their school. They were the primary movers and shakers…I often think that if the politico/educrats would just walk into a faculty meeting, tell the faculty that “”blahblahblah”“is the goal ….[probably realistically speaking would have to be an increase in math scores, or a decrease in drop out rate, or an increase in overall reading skills].. and then tell the faculty to devise a plan for their particular students to move toward that goal and implement it their way…WE MIGHT GET SOMEWHERE….tHERE IS JUST NO POWER IN THE RIGHT PLACES….

By another teacher

November 1, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

Today, I had a kid tell me in disgust, “you mean I didn’t get credit for writing the problem down?!?!?” ‘nuff said.

By another teacher

November 1, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

Today, I had a kid tell me in disgust, “you mean I didn’t get credit for writing the problem down?!?!?” ‘nuff said.

By another teacher

November 1, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

Today, a student was upset with me because I didn’t give her credit for just copying down the problems. “Free A’s for everyone just for copying problems of the overhead!”

By another teacher

November 1, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

Oops, sorry for the nearly identical posts. After 10 minutes, I still hadn’t seen the first one.

By HB

November 1, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

I don’t think the problem is a lack of competition or giving too many awards out for doing very little. When I was in school, I received participation certificates/trophies for softball, etc. even though I was one of the worst players on the team. The trophy didn’t make me think I was a great fielder — it just let those of us who weren’t so good know that there is value to showing up and trying your best. The good players were further rewarded with cheers for the great plays they made and spots on the all-star team.

To me, this is the band director’s central point: “I started wondering where students’ initiative to learn on their own has gone.” It’s not about kids not striving to do better than those around them. Kids lack the drive to learn on their own at all because they are given too few opportunities to do so. Adults hover over children today to a damaging degree. Kids can’t create their own games and socialize freely at recess; they have structured P.E. time instead. No one feels safe letting children roam their neighborhoods on their bikes anymore. Time after school once spent exploring the world around them is now completely organized, scheduled, and regulated. If a grown-up is constantly there telling a child what to do, think, and learn, why would it dawn on them to pick up a book and jump ahead to the next clarinet lesson on their own? They quite simply don’t know how to figure things out for themselves or that’s it’s even ok to do so.

By Kage

November 1, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

I have never given those ‘you get 100% for doing the work’ grades - until tonight. I was grading my math papers a little while ago. The kids had to find 20 ways to make a number. Some of the kids took the safe and obvious route; others tried to delve into more complex math. Some of the kids who were adventurous and attempted to stretch their thinking got all of the problems right; others missed a few. All of the kids who took the safe, easy route got 100%. That’s when I realized the quandry…Do I penalize kids for trying to stretch their thinking into zones they’re not totally comfortable with? No! But that’s what I would be doing by giving them the grade they ‘deserve’. And I can’t penalize the kids who did completely correct but less than challenging problems.

Anyway, that’s just another angle on this. The safe route comes with expected rewards - good grades. Stretching yourself might be met with less.

Overall, though, I agree with the majority of posters here. We are encouraged to reward mediocrity.

By Elane

November 2, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

The young clarinetist probably has no inner desire to go any further with her instrument. It’s not in her. The desire to do well is directly tied to the ability to do well. When you find you’re good at something, that’s when it takes off and you start working outside the box and the classroom.

By banddoc

November 2, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

I think you are wrong…The fact that the child is staying after school for extra help shows that she has a desire to improve. I am no good at golf, but I have a desire to do well, so I work at it, and I am getting better…

By JustMe

November 2, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

In addition to what others have posted, I believe that something else is going on here….

So many kids today have everything…. cell phones, a computer in their room, a tv in their room, an ipod, etc. There is nothing left to motivate them. There is no proverbial “carrot.”

And parents are very reluctant to not provide their kids with all of this stuff regardless. So then, why SHOULD a kid try at anything? If I was given everything on a silver platter, I am not sure what would motivate me to do anything….

By Lee

November 3, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

Re: “At what point do we hold students (and parents) responsible for their learning and education?”

Oh that’s rich. The politicians, educrats, administrators, et al have made a clusterf### of the education system, so what do we do? I know. Let’s blame the parents.

Notice, I didn’t blame teachers. I think they have been placed in a no-win situation. I mean, how in the world do you teach a class that encompasses the future felon, the special ed kid (God bless ‘em but they really shouldn’t be in a regular classroom), the illegal immigrant kid who can’t speak a lick of English, the average student, and the future Valedictorian. Answer; you can’t. For good measure, throw in the idiotic concept that you have to put all five of the above students in a college prep track and you have the proverbial recipe for disaster.

So, what happens is that Junior gets loaded down everyday with about 3 hours worth of homework in the vain hope that Mom and Dad can work through the lessons that didn’t get covered in class.

By OldSchool

November 3, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

Okay, Lee…your 9:19 a.m. post describe many of my classes. I’ve had students put in my lab because they were “too sorry to put anywhere else.” I’ve had students who went on to steal and even murder. I’ve had future valedictorians and Joe Average. And I’ve had them all in the same classes.

I “differentiated” the teaching and individualized my instruction. It’s a heckuva lot of work but it did and does work…if the kids will buy into it.

If I ever run out of red ink, I’ll just retire.