Get Schooled

By KA

October 30, 2006 08:10 AM | Link to this

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it. The Uncle Remus tales are what they are, part of historical literature, and with many lessons to teach and discuss. And yes, we can anticpate problems from the PC whiners and racism accusers; those who are not well read and thoughful, and who are offended at the drop of a hat. Education is meant to enlighten, to provoke thought and discussion, and I hope the teachers take the initiative and teach the Uncle Remus tales.

By sr. citizen dawg

October 30, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

i was one of the fortunate who at a tender age saw “Song of the South” at the Fox and in college wrote a term paper on the fable as portrayed by Joel Chandler Harris. My daughter and her friends claim they were entertained by my imitation of Uncle Remus and telling his tales to her and her friends. Some people can find fault with anything i guess but i just dont see anything objectionable to this sweet kind literature. My niece volunteered my services as “uncle remus” to her elementary school and her teacher told her she would get back with her. She never did however. I didnt read much into that at the time but now i wonder.

By jim d

October 30, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this

The whiners need to get over it and do a bit of research.

Strange as it may seem most of the Uncle Remus stories, arguably have native american origions.

I personally tend to believe that Mr. Harris borrowed many of his stories from native americans, adapting them to fit the plight of blacks during reconstruction. His motives? Well as a white writer for the Atlanta Constitution during reconstruction, one could safely assume they were financial.

By MMM

October 30, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this

I have an excellent picture book of Uncle Remus stories and I remember lending it to my son’s first grade class during their IB theme on fables and folk tales. The theme of many of the stories is how the weaker, but more intelligent animal gets the better of the more powerful but stupid one. A perfect set of learned truths for people caught in slavery.

I don’t remember disney’s “song of the south”, but the center for puppetry arts did some of them a year or so ago. Stripped of Uncle Remus. You could ask them if they got the usual number of school groups—they usually write lesson plans that tie into the Georgia Performance Standards so as to make it easier for teachers to justify a field trip.

I think my daughter also covered them at some point, but I don’t remember in what context—I’ll ask them tonight and report back.

By MA

October 30, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this

Our library had a copy of the Uncle Remus stories, but when it wore out it was not replaced. The Brer Rabbit stories are not PC and to even mention the “tar baby” is to invite parental outrage, publicity, and premature dismissal from your profession.

By penguinmom

October 30, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

Our homeschool group is planning a trip to the Wren’s Nest this January.

Personally, Song of the South is one of my favorite Disney movies. It shows a wonderful black man as a strong role model for two white children. The black man ended up being the one who was right and the white woman was wrong. The white men in the story were often cruel and uncaring. To me the slaves in the movie singing just showed a strength of character to make the best of the poor situation they found themselves in. The fact that the woman in the story was kind to the slaves shows that no matter what circumstance we find ourselves in, we need to treat others with kindness and dignity. NO, being kind doesn’t make slavery OK. But, just as there were terrible masters, it only makes sense that there were kind ones as well. Showing a kind one in a movie doesn’t mean that the whole period of time is being whitewashed.

How is it that people finding happiness in any situation is repugnant?

Disney won’t release Song of the South here but it is available in other countries. If you look at some local (non-chain) video stores, you can find a copy with subtitles. One of our members has a copy of the movie with Japanese subtitles. Why is it okay for Japanese people to see ‘happy slaves’ but it’s not okay for Americans?

By penguinmom

October 30, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

As a child, I never understood the tar baby reference as being a black person. It was a Tar Baby. And it got the better of Brer Rabbit.

It’s too bad that none of the main actors in Song of the South are alive to defend the movie now. James Baskett (Uncle Remus) was the FIRST live actor to be hired by Disney according to IMDB.com. Now wouldn’t that be something to celebrate?

By jim d

October 30, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

From Bobtail to Brer Rabbit Native American Influences on Uncle Remus

http://www.questia.com/PM.qst;jsessionid=FtsTQ2l12Xpp1CqLVLQSsttcC0trcFT4HL2bpcxjGyBQKybJZTmT!48714160?a=o&d=95212339

By SET

October 30, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

I don’t remember seeing a racially charged issue like this posted on the blog before.

The character Uncle Remus is a good example of the “eternal child” Negro - a childlike figure in a grown man’s body. There are plenty of similar figures in literature and movies. By the way, anybody here ever read the original Tom Swift series from 1918? Not the Tom Swift Jr series from the 1960s…

Why we need this in an elementry school (I assume we’re not talking about secondary schools) is not clear to me. I can think of a couple of reasons but they are really not politically correct and even I have limits.

I’d prefer having the kiddies read Robert Heinlien’s juvenile series.. “Tunnel In The Sky” comes to mind. Teenagers in a high school survival test accidently marooned on a strange planet for years. The girl who becomes chief of police turns out to be black - although it takes careful reading to realize she is black. It appears the first thing she (apparently) did upon arrival at the planet was to kill off a particularly troublesome (and heavily armed) male student - there were no witnesses so you have to figure that out during the reading. Nice Girl - and very competent. Heinlien’s books are full of such lessons as making your own luck, not waiting for someone to give you something, meeting contract obligations, and pursuing the affections of the toughest girl around (Most of which were actually based on Heinlein’s wife, Virginia).

I would think in grade school the reading to be done is about learning, problem solving behavior, and morals. Reading about childlike slave types is not on my list. I remember reading about the European Resistance to the Nazis during WWII. That was in grade school.

By jim d

October 30, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

Set,

Surely this doesn’t offend you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tp2WuEng6M

By SET

October 30, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

Jim D: I’ll have to look at it later. I’m not saying Uncle Remus offends me - I think those characters are funny as hell - especially since they are so dead on.

I’m not sure of the educational value of them for elementry school students - other than to teach the black students what they’re going to be good for if they don’t learn their lessons and become skilled labor.

By jim d

October 30, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

SET,

I suppose the folks over at the NAACP might be offended but to me the real story line in Song of the South is a reaffirming story of the bond between two friends that refuse to be separated by race, class, age, it’s about a friendship that is forged and held against all odds.

That may be a lesson worth teaching the youth of today. Is that something the schools should be teaching? In my opinon—NO, but hell they take on everything else.

By SET

October 30, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

Jim D: We are of different minds and I’m no friend of the NAACP politically.

“reaffirming story of the bond between two friends that refuse to be separated by race, class, age, it’s about a friendship that is forged and held against all odds”

That’s not the way I see this at all. And I’ve got news for the readership - I think friendship requires some kind of common bond. “Friendship against all odds” is a nice phrase for somebody using somebody else. It goes on all the time - but that’s what it is.

I believe schoolchildren should be taught - coached - to become the best they can, intellectually at least. Being someone’s family pet isn’t in the mix.

But that’s my opinion, reasonable minds can disagree on anything. Maybe being someone’s family pet is the best some people can do. Maybe they had bad public schools.

Anything that encourages black students - who have a enough problems coming in the door - to behave in a childlike and silly manner even as adults is not what I believe education is about. I have attended public high schools in CA and I’ve seen the black clown thing going around in majority white schools. It still occurs in majority black schools.

When I was a sub (over 25 years ago) I discouraged clowning in the classrooms I had. I considered it counterproductive. I would decline to provide such images in a positive manner in a classroom.

By catlady

October 30, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this

I use the stories (and I can do a fair job of reading them in dialect) with my classes every year. They are terrific. When my copy wore out (three children) my daughter kindly got another off ebay for abour $50!

I have used the character of Uncle Remus to demonstrate many admirable traits. And I never, ever equated the tar baby with black folk until 10 minutes ago. Guess for a PhD I am pretty slow. Perhaps I have not delved into the issue of the character enough to be offended.

I also read Appalachian stories in dialect, and can do a fair job of Cajun. I think the wonder is in the variety of our ways of expressing common truths.

By high school teacher

October 30, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Disney has refused to release the movie on home video or DVD because some people might be offended.

Isn’t that strange? One of the most popular rides at Disney World, and my personal favorite, is Splash Mountain, which chronicles the stories of Brer Fox and Brer Rabbit.

By penguinmom

October 30, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

Personally, I think that while a lot of things in Song of the South are funny, most of it is very sweet. If you can’t see the friendship bond between the boy and the man, it may be because of prejudice you might have. They do have a common bond, love of stories and imagination. Not to mention the fact that this is an adult willing to take time to listen. You can have bonds of friendship with someone who may appear to be different (not just in appearance, in likes and dislikes also) while not being able to make friends with someone who in most ways is identical to you.

I do not consider Uncle Remus to be a clownish character. He uses humor but he is also very wise, compassionate and strong. He stands up for what he thinks is right, only giving in when he decided it would harm his friend to continue to argue. He listens and tells stories to help the children see their situations from a different point of view.

Uncle Remus’ stories do have a message or moral, like Aesop (which I hope is still taught in school.) Brer Rabbit is a silly creature whose passions often get him into trouble. (Lesson: Don’t let revenge or hatred get the best of you.) But, he also has smarts and a sense of humor in order to help himself escape. (Lesson: If you find yourself in trouble, getting angry will probably just make it worse. Staying calm and thinking it through will help you solve the problem.)

I can imagine that these stories might not make sense in the strange mixed up world called California. Here in the South where gentleness, compassion and wisdom are highly valued, these type of stories are cherished for the wisdom, humor and compassion they display.

By MMM

October 30, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

I think there is a big difference between sharing the actual animal folktales and the “uncle Remus” narrator. Since I think I only saw the Disney movie once, when I was much younger—I can’t really comment on it other than to say that Disney usually removes complexity. I have several sets of their old cartoons from that time period and there are a number with ugly sterotypes—so I am willing to believe that a fair number of reasonable people would find at least parts of it offensive. (The wolf in a three little pigs is clearly a Jewish landlord come to evict them for non-payment of rent and the Germans were portraid as sub-human in the ‘40’s.) A whole section of one of the DVD’s has a disclaimer saying that they need to be viewed within the context of the time, but yes they are very offensive by today’s standards. But Disney did choose to release those—so why will they not do so with “Song of the South” and let the viewer decide? But Disney, like McDonalds, has deep pockets and understands that their customers expect wholesome, upbeat, non-controversial pap.

That doesn’t mean that the original folktales ought to be abandoned.

By SET

October 30, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

penguinmom:

You’re are right about CA being different. It’s a nation unto itself. I hope the factors that made us the way we are don’t take over your state also. That’s the problem - trouble spreads. We did not have all the problems in this state when I was growing up. We once had great public schools and decent crime stats, affordable housing and jobs for everyone.

If people want to change your state to make it more like CA, beware.

By MMM

October 30, 2006 06:40 PM | Link to this

SET—

We aren’t too likely to go the way CA has. The surest way to vilify another political candidate around here is to accuse them of wanting to import ideas from LA.

By KA

October 31, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

Looking at the different points of view we bloggers have, just screams to me that these controversial, offensive (?) or sweet and sentimental stories ?) need to be taught to our students. Teaching and using Critical Thinking Skills will overcome the uninformed knee jerk offended reaction to challenging themes. We need to teach our students how to examine literature in the context of history, how to discuss the social issues, to discuss the evolution of the fables into modern stories, and to put it all into perspective for today. Ignoring these books and these themes is promoting ignorance, and ignorance is not bliss, it is DOOM. Knowledge and understanding should be the goal of our schools, not suppression of uncomfortable subject matter.

By Janine

October 31, 2006 09:23 AM | Link to this

KA I think you are so on target here. Unless one has been in classrooms [notice I didn’t say taught in] with middle school students over a period of time, one may not realize just how important it is for children to be exposed to different points of view,different ways of thinking about things. A reasonable approach to the world around them is greatly influenced by being aware of and being exposed to ideas other than one’s own. Many times, even by this tender age, students are cemented, stuck, mired in one notion, not because of thought given to the subject, and not because of personal experience, but because of lack of exposure. And, most of the time, the earlier the exposure occurs,the better. Although really not quite the same,it reminds me of a time when I was teaching in private school and one of our wealthier students had difficulty with the concept of a grocery store. He had never been in one, nor heard it discussed in his servant filled home. Just to be able to say.. and mean, “I understand, even though I don’t agree with” , or “I have thought about from all sides and I still think…” or “I have read Song of the South and have decided that I don’t like the way Uncle Remus was portrayed” is reason enough for it …and other UN P.C. books to be read and discussed in classrooms.

By SET

October 31, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

MMM: It’s not the politicians who are the most dangerous - they only react to already established changes in the electorate.

California, to a large degree (with New York City), controls the Media. Television, the movie industry, and other media are changing mores around the country through a propaganda effort. Simply put they publish fantasy as truth - if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes reality.

The particular issue at the moment isn’t the point. It’s little things and large issues all at once. And Cultural Values - such as the beauty of centralized power and the error of local control and regional differences. Combined with the (Unconstitutional) creeping Federalism of the United States, you will see the state and regional differences melt away over time. I don’t have a problem with states rights because I believe I understand the value in avoiding an all powerful national government. (See Germany 1935-1940 for example)

Another reason why George Orwell should be required reading in schools.

All this relates to public schools because a federal takeover of school policy makes it too easy for the US public schools to all fail at once. Some might say that’s what’s happening nowadays. One wonders what is the fate waiting for the Nation.

A centralized power system is far easier to conquer (or rot) from within than a 1940’s type system where you had to get the smoke-filled rooms in enough states in line to take the electoral college. When I see young people chattering about doing away with the electoral college it’s clear they have no comprehension of why it was created in the first place - or much else in history. They live in the moment.

So I’m pessimistic about GA’s longterm ability to stay GA.

By gateacher

October 31, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

The Uncle Remus stories go beyond the Disney movie Song of the South. If the only exposure you have had to these tales is the movie then I can see why you would have problems. This is the same for any culture. How many people thought the south was like Gone With the Wind or the north is like The Godfather? However, if you read the actual writings you see a different picture. Uncle Remus used the African folklore tradition of the trickster character, Brer Rabbit, to show the injustice and foolishness of the white overseers, Brer Fox and Brer Bear. The tarbaby doesn’t represent blacks, it respresents the institute of slavery. Brer Rabbit gets stuck but his cunning not only gets him out of it, he also makes a fool out of Brer Fox. The stories were told to slaves to remind them that there are ways to “fight the man” without being aggressive. I grew up hearing these stories and have read them to my children. None of us are in any way racist because of them. It brought up talks about thinking things through before you do them, dialect and how different people talk in different ways, how to deal with bullies, ect. These stories are a part of American Literary history. Let’s not give them up because some people don’t understand them. Those that think books should be kept out of schools need to reread (or read) Fahrenhiet 451.

By Ewatterson

October 31, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

Another great field trip is to the Uncle Remus Museum in Eatonton, GA (birthplace of Joel Chandler Harris). The museum is made up of two slave cabins. The museum may be small, but a powerful tool for showing students how things could have been for them. It also has wonderful artifacts from the time period and some original writings of Joel Chandler Harris.

I may be biased towards this museum being that my great-grandmother and grandmother were both curators of the Uncle Remus Museum. I am now a middle school math teacher and can’t seem to fit the stories in my curriculum, but if I could pull it off, my students would be at the museum listening to the stories being read by my grandmother (in dialect).

By KA

October 31, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

Ewatterson, Thanks for the info. I found a link for the museum:

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/sights/sightstory.php?tip_AttrId=%3D12080

I pulled out my copy of Uncle Remus and am going to read some stories tonight!

By jim d

November 1, 2006 08:04 AM | Link to this

SET,

Our being of different minds is a good thing, and while at times we agree to disagree, the fact that we can talk about those differences helps bring us all closer to what we should be ——- one people.

I suppose occasionally that I may look at things through some rather rose colored glasses, but when I look at people I really fail to notice skin pigmentation. I must say though that your querulous nature at times seems to indicate you, almost always, see color first. Unfortunately this is what I consider one of the largest obstacles in eliminating racial issues in this country.

Yes, Uncle Remus was portrayed as a black man, a slave, but in my opinion his character was truly and foremost a child’s friend. I find it rather unfortunate that you fail to see that.

HAGD my friend.

By Leia

November 1, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this

jim d - That was a very nice, PC response to SET, but, give me a break - there is no way in h3ll that the fact that Uncle Remus is a Black slave is NOT the first thing you see about him!

I find it interesting that all of the White people who’ve posted don’t see anything wrong with Uncle Remus, and think that it’s a “sweet story of a boy and his friend”, while the Black posters are uncomfortable with this being presented in schools - as they should be. My children have learned about this - at home, where they can openly ask questions and have their questions answered honestly, by their parents.

I think this is going to open up a can of worms that Georgia has yet to see!

By jim d

November 1, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

Leia,

I suppose the idea of how blacks today are portrayed in movies as thugs, drug dealers, thieves and murders is more appealing?

Why isn’t anyone Bi—-hin about that?

You can still buy— Amos and Andy show tapes that depict James Baskett as the fast-talking lawyer Gabby Gibson

Why not ban all of Billie Thomas’s movies and film footage? For the uninformed that would be “Buck Wheat”

Here’s a list of a few more that should be banned as well (sarcasm)

Lincoln Theodore Monroe Andrew Perry (Stepin Fetchit) who often played a farmhand, stable boy, or slave

Dorothy Dandridge that always played low life black roles.

And leave us not forget Hattie McDaniel, of Gone with the Wind fame, who accepted film and television roles as a slave and servant.

Or Sam Lucas that did a great job at recreating Uncle Tom.

How’s that for being PC?

By Leia

November 1, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

jim d - Thank you for illustrating my point for me! Everything that you’ve mentioned is stuff that my children see and question in my home - not at school where the personal biases of teachers could possibly taint its importance. By the way - that’s what my family did last year for Black History Month - watch really bad movies that portray Black people as subservient, slow, or gangsters. Then, we talked about why that is, and what can be done (if anything) to change that.

And, by the way - it’s kind of scary how you could rattle off of those examples so quickly!

By MMM

November 1, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

Leia

I’m white—which I share only because I don’t want you to assume that all the White posters don’t see anything wrong with Uncle Remus. The “happy infantile slave” sterotype is clearly offensive—and I said above that it is the way the animal stories of weaker, smaller animals surviving by outwitting the stronger “think they should be in charge” animals, that redeems the surface ugliness.

Little children should not have the animal stories hidden from them—any more than that we should ban African spirituals because they were sung by slaves, and spoke of a reality that should not have existed. It did exist. The Uncle Remus character was a literary tool that a white person created in the 19th century to in order to give the folktales a wider (white) audience.

I draw a large distinction in whether the Brier Rabbit stories should be taught (they should) and whether Uncle Remus should be released in the 1940’s Disney version (haven’t seen it and don’t know).

I think that these complex issues do give us a good venue in which to create dialog and critical thinking about southern history, identity, values and how viewpoint can color the presentation and interpretation of a story. There are certain settings where this discussion is possible(I’m not sure about the schools)—but I can see Disney’s reasonable fear that the movie may be misused if freely released in America.

Leia—you are certainly right that the first thing obvious about Uncle Remus is that he is a Black Slave. The real question is how many people can see other redemptive qualities in the stories? I see both. But since the pain was indeed inflicted on Blacks, I think that their emotion should dictate when we are ready to release the movie.

By Leia

November 1, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

MMM - you are 100% correct in your assessments.

My only qualm with this whole issue is that some lessons should be taught at home, not at school.

By jim d

November 1, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

Leia,

“some lessons should be taught at home, not at school”

I think we are in agreement on that one.

Found this review of the movie while surfing. Enjoy the read, then lets go to “The Laughin’ Place”

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2YT63K4RSOCFC?ie=UTF8