Get Schooled

By Helen Umphrey

October 27, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

Boy! It gets dirty this time of year. Sickeningly so sometimes. All the mud slinging. I know a better way for the candidates to expend their energy. Get some law’s passed to change law enforcement tactic’s on sending innocent people to prison. Isn’t that what a supreme Court Justice is all about? JUSTICE?

By V for Vendetta

October 27, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

Just ask Kathy if she has any new stickers for textbooks like: “This book is made from recycled Bibles for added holiness” or “An apple a day gets you thrown out of paradise”.

Ok, ok, I’m sorry. It’s Friday and it’s raining outside. I’m just stir-crazy, that’s all. I’ll stop.

By Lisa B.

October 27, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

What can be done to improve school discipline so those who want to learn CAN learn? At this time there is no funding for alternative education below 6th grade. Not all children succeed in regular classrooms. Is there a plan for educating elementary students who disrupt and don’t fit in? It seems these kids fall behind and never catch up.

By V for Vendetta

October 27, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

On a serious note, I would agree with Lisa B. Discipline, or a lack of it, seems to be one of the bigger issues I face on a daily basis. Public school is NOT A RIGHT.

By jim d

October 27, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Yo Patti,

Ask them all if elected “what is their highest priority, the number one issue they would tackle?”

By Taxpayer

October 27, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

While the state superintendent can’t “squelch” NCLB, I’d like to whether the candidates would be willing to at least “stand up” to NCLB and secure waivers where needed. Sometimes complying with these NCLB standards creates many more problems than originally existed.

And dear, dear V, I agree with you that we should ask Kathy if she has any more stickers left in her sticker box! I could suggest a few from bumper stickers I’ve seen recently: “Oh, Evolve!” and “You don’t have to believe everything you think.”

By Ernest

October 27, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

I agree with Lisa B.’s question. I also want to know what (if any) policies would the recommend that could help improve parental involvement. Along the same lines, what would they do to ensure parental accountability laws are enforced (i.e. for truancy, absenteeism, etc.)

By Karen Armsby

October 27, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this

Patti, First Could you ask each of them what their plans are to get the illterate and poor readers back on track? I wish the superintendent would implement statewide yearly reading assessments on ALL grade levels, and put any student not reading on grade level into reading bootcamps, intensive classes with programmed reading skills lessons to would bring them up to grade level. Any new student should also take the reading assessment. If we help poor readers then they will do better in school, and bring scores up for lagging schools. Second I would love to see a statewide program begun to allow ability grouping in schools within 3-4 chronological age/grade levels, ex. K-3, 3-5, 6-8, and 9-12. Ability grouping would allow bright kids who are ready and willing to learn to be taught on pace with their abilities, and the students who need more time or are not ready would be placed in classes to allow a more measured progress. Third If the elected superintendent wants help setting up and implementing these programs, then I would love to work for either of them! Disclaimer: I am not a teacher, but I am a lifelong learner and avid (or rabid) reader.

By Lisa B.

October 27, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

I like the idea of a Reading Bootcamp!

By OldSchool

October 27, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

I would like to know where the candidates stand on funding to bring CTAE labs into the 21st century. Many of us were set up in the early 70s during the transition to comprehensive high schools. Unfortunately, for many of us outside Atlanta, no more funds have been forthcoming to keep the labs (especially heavy labs like Automotive and Metals) up to date. Industrial Arts was once a marvelous feeder program for T&I but those days are gone as most IA programs are also gone. Instead, we have Technology Ed programs in high schools that really have little value (at least down here.)

I’d also like to know if CTAE programs are still supposed to prepare students to enter the world of work with entry level skills and why it is so difficult to let us do that! We battle skyrocketing costs of materials, outdated equipment, and overloaded classes (a safety hazard in a shop class, folks!) everyday.

By MMM

October 27, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

Ask them to specifically enumerate the most important job the parent, teacher, community, administator, school board, DOE, and Legislator should each own responsibility for if we are to collectively give our kids an excellent future in Georgia.

Also, ask what we are or should be doing to enable schools to be flexible in meeting unique needs?

By Veteran

October 27, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

Along the same lines as Lisa B., I would like to ask all three how they plan to address the issue of why students who perform significantly below grade are placed in college prep classes (often without the identified pre-requisites) in high school? The trend today seems to be moving students along in high school even if they do not pass the previous courses in the sequence (up to a year or more of classes failed in a single discipline). On any given day,I could conceivably be trying to teach a student in a 10th, 11th, or 12th grade English or math class who has not passed a single course in that discipline while in high school. Try teaching 33+ 11th-grade students when 6 or 7 of them have not passed the 9th nor the 10th grade courses that lead up to mine. And this scenario is very, very real.

When the general ed diploma was eliminated AND NCLB was fully implemented, all students, whether college prep or career tech or formerly special ed self-contained, were forced into classes together. Why isn’t that a good idea? Because in order to teach the numbers we face daily (33+ in a single period, up to 6 periods in all - you do the math), and in order to post passing scores on the EOCT and GHSGT, we are having to water down the curriculum to the point that the students honestly heading for college are forced into Honors and AP level classes, sometimes only because their parents think that is the only place “real” learning can occur. That move, in turn, places a huge strain on those classes, which are also in danger of being watered down. Classes need to be created so that learning can be maximized, not so that some politician can feel good about offering “learning for all.” The way we’re heading, we are offering learning for very few. And sadly, I am not even addressing the problem of discipline when classes are TOO BIG coupled with the issue of students not having grade-level skills.

These questions need to be asked. And soon. We are losing qualified teachers who cannot deal with this situation.

By Randy

October 27, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

I’m voting straight Republican, like most other Georgians. The Democrats are to far out there, especially on subjects like abortion and same sex marriage.

By Molly

October 27, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

I would like to know how they intend to address the needs of high achievers. NCLB has forced the schools to dumb down the curriculum and focus entirely on passing multiple choice tests at a ridiculously basic level. The better (wealthier) schools could administer the CRCT on the first day of school and meet the passing criteria. Gifted and high achieving students waste enormous amounts of time prepping for an exam they could pass without trying. How will they serve these students? (I agree that ability grouping across grade levels would be a great place to start.)

By Karen Armsby

October 27, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

Patti, Could you also ask them if they would rename NCLB for Georgia. It is such a negative concept. IMHO we need a more positive and workable statement; All Students Working to their Potential.

By catlady

October 27, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

Ask them about: Accountability for everyone (principals, central office, students parents) Discipline: when are we going to supply alternative placements for chronically disruptive students even in elementary school Special ed: How can we say a child does not need testing for special ed if they are working 3 or more years below grade level (but doing okay with those modifications) and call it Tier 2, no further investigation needed Sp ed/esol: how are classroom teachers to manage a 3 ring circus of regular kids, sp ed kids (with push in help) and esol kids (with push in help)? When are the needs of the group more important than the needs of one or two? What can be done to make the CRCT tests have some credibility in the GA educaional community? Why can anything be labeled “research based” and GA will buy it? When will real educators sit on important committees to make policy decisions?

By Ernest

October 27, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

Hey Patti, you can also ask if GetSchooled can become the official Education blog for the GA DOE… :)

By JustMe

October 27, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

Patti - I have a question….

Why cannot the State keep out of my classroom and let me do my job and teach - especically when my students are getting good results (high SAT scores, high EOCT, high GHSGT results, etc.)?

Why must the State feel empowered to come into my room and tell me to change how I do my job when all evidence points to the fact that I am doing a pretty darn good job.

By V for Vendetta

October 27, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

Randy —

I hope you are just posting that kind of crap looking for a reaction. Or maybe you just dropped your Bible on the keyboard and it sent you to the wrong website. Either way, it’s rather sad.

By Gunny

October 27, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

Ask them what they think about the lack of teachers’ rights in the State of Georgia. Administrators run rough-shod over teachers willy-nilly without respect to law or ethics or, especially, the needs of children.

By fed up

October 27, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

I disagree on the NCLB thing. The state superintendent’s office can’t get rid of NCLB, but they can publicly oppose it and help school districts manage it by applying for waivers and generally not being quite so cheery about it. Many other states are doing so.

Sometimes I think Margaret Spellings herself is the superintendent here. It’s ridiculous.

My vote goes to the candidate who is the most bullish on opposing NCLB, period.

Also, count me in on the high achiever thing. With all the focus on the three kids in the class who are almost at “meets” the children who have the potential to be the next surgeons, researchers, writers and engineers are being mostly ignored. All of these children are being left behind… particularly in she schools that are having trouble making AYP. As a result the kids being the most left behind are minority and lower income kids who are gifted. What is being done with those kids?

If all kids can achieve at grade level, all kids in gifted programs should be required to achieve well above grade level.. or they are left behind.

A kid with an IQ over 120 will mentally wither and die in a direct instruction classroom, and that is where schools that are not meeting AYP tend to end up - scripted curriculum - computer drilling - yuck.

By Janine

October 27, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

Patti…I think my question would be along the lines of VETERAN @12:29…and concerns an issue that we have discussed often on this blog.It is also discussed daily wherever middle and high school teachers gather. Cox has pointed out many times that the high school drop out rate is of great concern. Ask if they have ever considered that the d.o. rate would almost certainly be reduced considerably if more realisitic route to graduation were offered…i.e. there is another path …a general diploma which does not require college prep classes such as trig, chemistry, etc., but which may include practical courses that would prepare students for the 80% of jobs that do NOT require a college degree..plumbers, electricians, mechanics, exec. assistants, secretaries,tile setters,..and many more….And this needs to begin in MIDDLE SCHOOL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!!!!!!! EVERYONE DOES NOT WANT TO GO TO COLLEGE… EVERYONE DOES NOT NEED TO GO TO COLLEGE…EVERYONE CANNOT BE SUCCESSFUL IN COLLEGE.[unless they continue to **dumb down and offer more and more remedial classes]…NOR DOES EVERYONE NEED TO GO TO COLLEGE TO BE A SUCCESSFUL, CONTRIBUTING MEMBER OF OUR SOCIETY. Yet the DOE insists that the only way to success is through a college degree.That is the entire focus and a sad thing that is. Many students are made to feel like they have no futures…THey are pushed aside as if they are of no value. Thanks for asking….

By Stacey

October 27, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this

I like Karen’s question / suggestion about ability placement for students. We had this when I was in middle school and it worked well for everyone. Based on test results on prerequisite tests and standardized test that we took, we were grouped accordingly and taught on different levels, sometimes even using different material. This cut back on a lot of the goofing off that sometimes occurs when a student is (1) bored because he isn’t learning anything or (2) overwhelmed because he doesn’t understand but is ashamed to ask for help.

By Janine

October 27, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

I agree with the “high achiever” thing, too….It blows one’s mind to see how administrators from local schools all the way up to county and state focus entirely on getting the lower kids [especially the learning disabled and ESOL and Sp. Ed. students ] to pass the CRCT. It’s like they all have tunnel vision.

By metro

October 27, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

I’m all for ability placing. Well, actually, I don’t like ability placing, but I believe that NCLB is going to force diverse school systems into it sooner or later. It is completely unfair to the kids who perform well to have to sit around and wait while the kids just below “meets” get all the attention. Our district is well over 25% gifted, and these kids are getting ripped off in the current system.

A kid who has the potential to be a surgeon has been left behind by her school system if she does not receive the education that allows her to reach her potential.

The only way for schools to meet their obligations to the children attending and to meet AYP is to track. Sorry, but them’s the facts folks and if people don’t like it, they need to contact Margaret Spellings because her department will be the cause of it.

By decaturparent

October 27, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

Put me down for the ability placement thing too.

By Dragonlady

October 27, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

I have a suggestion. Let’s all get together and write in Janine’s name on the ballot. She is very articulate and makes perfect sense to me! Kudos to you, Janine.

By JW

October 27, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

If education officials want legitimate accountability, they need to stop comparing scores year-to-year and implement a pretest/post-test model for the CRCT. This would truly show how much the children learn during one school year. Enough of the comparisons (school-to-school, county-to-county, etc.). Get rid of all other testing (Iowa Tests, Cognitive Abilities, etc.) and have only the CRCT - pretest in August and post-test in May.

By catlady

October 27, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

Fed Up is right about direct instruction that is strangling the brightest kids. Will our next state school leader return us to the days when so much crap (Reading First, scripted instruction, Max Thompson, special ed tiers, etc ad nauseum) was not demanded and let the teachers (professional educators, by the way) teach each class, each student,in the way that meets the student’s needs? If the teacher is incompetent, get rid of them, but let the others TEACH. (Also, get rid of incompetent, over-paid folks at the county offices and state level that have been “kicked upstairs” because they are incompetent and the idea is to “reward” them for their years of incompetent service. For example, get us a reading director WHO HAS TAUGHT READING.)

Stop jumping onto every bandwagon and let us do our jobs!

By KA

October 30, 2006 08:13 AM | Link to this

Patti, Great Job at the GPB debate! Thanks for taking the message from the people to the candidates. You represented us well!

By Ernest

October 30, 2006 08:33 AM | Link to this

I also want to echo Karen’s sentiments, I thought you did a great job on the debate Patti! While the recording is not posted yet, you should be able to access the video sometime later at Debate video

I thought Donna Lowery and the Libertarian candidate brought up an interesting point regarding this perhaps being an appointed position rather than elected. For those with additional insight on this, I’d appreciate hearing the pro’s and con’s on this.

By squitoo

October 30, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this

cultures, abilities, and needs of students and parents. Too much of the staff development is repetitive and mickey mouse. Teachers are professionals. Staff Development should reflect the professional responsibilties of the classroom teachers. The same should be expected of out Schools of Education in the colleges of out state.

By Patti Ghezzi

October 30, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

Thanks, KA and Ernest! It was very nervewracking. Does anyone remember the Brady Bunch episode where Cindy freezes up on a televised quiz show? I didn’t want that to be me! Luckily it was well organized with people telling me where to go so I could focus on my questions. I regret that I didn’t get to ask more. I had the list from the blog printed out. Donna Lowery said the last time she got to ask eight or nine questions, so I was hoping to get more in.

I’ll put up a new post with a link to the debate and some questions when I get a chance…

By holdingAJCaccountable

October 30, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

Do you think if you came up with (on paper) a new document describing field operations, that the war in Iraq would be any more successful? Then why woud anyone think that rewriting the curriculum, without addressing discipline, is going to do a d-mn thing to improve education? Yet that’s what the current superindendent is hanging her hat on. A new document, the GPS to replace the QCC (maybe next election the GPS can be replaced with the FMR-facade masquerading as reform). I wrote Cox’s campaign and they said discipline shouldn’t be a concern because “all the laws are in place”. If the laws are in place, why are school systems reporting astronomical numbers of discipline problems (numbers that no one thinks aren’t being fudged. If Cox thinks “the laws are in place” is the answer to discipline, then her gray matter has been replaced with complete and total bovine excrement! What good are “the laws in place” if laws aren’t followed? (And they aren’t!) What does “the laws are in place” mean if there are no REAL penalties for not following the law? Will Cox show some backbone and yank certificates of school superintendents who lie about discipline numbers? Will Cox advocate for stronger penalties for school systems that don’t follow the grievance process, or the tribunal process designed to protect teachers who have been physically assaulted? How did New York turn around its dismal crime stats? By cracking down on the little things, so as to create an environment hostile towards those who would break the law.

When students come to schools and routinely drop F-bombs like they are going out of style (no, not all schools, but far to many schools) it shows just how out of touch Cox is with reality.

Can we trust Cox to have the spine to take a stand. No, because if she had a backbone, it would show evidence that she had EVOLVED, and we know she won’t allow that to happen…

Let me put it in terms even a Republican can understand: It’s not NCLB, QCC or GCRCT…It’s the discipline, Stupid!

As for Majette…don’t even get me started.

At least the Libertarian has some ideas for REAL reform.

By betty b

October 31, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

After watching the debate the only cadidate that appears to have a clue is david chastain. Forget party lines,I’m voting libertarian for the first time in my life! Its time to elect someone that wants real change. Not only does he want to get rid of his job by making it a hired position by an elected school board ( see his web page) but he wants teachers to teach again. We always remember the great teachers that taught outside the box, but these are the very teachers that are being persecuted by the Cox regime in today’s schools. I’m voting for Chastain because our children need someone who is holding parents responsible and who truly cares about their education not just test scores and politics.