AJC.com > Blogs > Get Schooled > Archives > 2006 > October > 26 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USGive Me a Hug
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
I’m observing in a classroom this week and, as usual, learning a lot. This elementary school teacher - the same one who dares light candles in his classroom - is a self-proclaimed hugger. He hugs his students. He hugs the newspaper reporter. Students seem to associate his room with a place where hugs are available and therefore sought hugs from me. I was happy to oblige.
I know some teachers do not feel comfortable hugging their students. They fear a misinterpretation by parents or other staff members. No one wants to invite litigation. But still I can’t help thinking these kids respond to this teacher and work hard on their schoolwork to please him in part because of his willingness to provide the affection they crave.
Teachers, do you hug your students? Parents, do you want your teacher to hug your child? Is this a sticky issue in some schools?
Sidenote: Since Title IX came up in conversation the other day, you might want to read this story/blog by Curtis Bunn about McNair High School’s volleyball team finding success despite a lack of equipment.
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By SET
October 26, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
When I saw the original reference to the lit candles I thought about candle fires and the amount of loose paper in an elementry school classroom - not to mention the presence of little boys who might like a fire. Then I remembered that you can’t micromanage a classroom and that the teacher is probably acting within his discretion.
Now I hear the same teacher is getting huggy with the kids. I’m now satisfied that he is operating beyond reasonable discretion. Simply put, he knows better and is proceeding regardless of the likely consequences. So where is the administration?
Even at elementry school level there are boundries and the students need to know that you are not their parent, you are not their “friend”, you are their teacher. The boundries of teaching in my mind even at elementry school level does not include the kind of intimacy required for (non-emergency) hugging and there are many reasons for this boundry. You have many diverse students and need to be seen as being impartial to all.
The larger the number of students you have, especially in the urban areas, the more likely you will encounter children with abandonment & sexual issues. You don’t need to get to this level of intimacy with the little urchins. You can’t project your value system on them - they can well take this hugging to be something quite different than he intends - they’re not him.
Yes it’s different with an adult male involved. If this man keeps this practice up long enough, it will end very badly. Notice I’m not saying he has unresolved issues that he goes around hugging other men’s children. That’s another point I don’t have to reach for. I wonder what else is going on though.
The hugging should stop - and I question his fitness to be in this assignment.
By high school teacher
October 26, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
The day I cannot hug my students is the day that I stop teaching.
By Patti Ghezzi
October 26, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
A note about the candles … They are in a container and they are on a long cabinet that stretches along one wall, separate from where the classroom activity takes place. They do not appear to be a fire hazard.
By SET
October 26, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this
HST: Maybe in a small community or a small private school - I can’t imagine the place around here - the adults in the community might tolerate a man getting this intimate with children or adolecents. Maybe in a different era.
But not here in CA. The population here is too diverse and boundries are established. Other men (and other ethnics and religions) do not want you putting your hands - or anything else - on the persons of their sons and daughters. Your position as a teacher does not give you that kind of intimacy with the bodies of their children. Most men, not to mention women, are not training their children to allow themselves to be handled in this way by males outside a certain circle which doesn’t include you.
If you have a need to get this kind of intimacy with these kinds of people you are headed for serious trouble. But that’s just my opinion as a lawyer who sees people - usually men - in desperate legal trouble. Most of them claim it all started with the best of intentions.
And I’m talking about misdemeanor sexual battery. It takes very little. Most of these men are full of themselves about how innocuous the touch was. They claim the “victim” is overreacting. Say Hello to the jury.
And try to remember - the students you are manhandling won’t say much to you. When things hit the fan you will be very surprised at what they have said about you to their parents and to the police.
I’ve read the reports and seen these people.
So reconsider your position and leave the profession if you can’t keep your hands off the kids.
By SET
October 26, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this
I’m how claiming that a teacher can’t touch a child. A child of whatever age can be restrained, hugged, carried out the door kicking and screaming - or whatever, when it’s required to deal with an unusual problem. Kids get injured, get bad news on the cellphone text(your cat died?), or their boyfriend dumps them for a cheerleader and they threaten suicide or murder or both.
Gratuitous hugging by male teachers (if not female) is out as an unwelcome, unsafe and unreasonable practice. At least that’s the way I see it in CA. Maybe the culture is so different in your state that the basis for my view isn’t valid in GA. Somebody let me know!
By waterbug24
October 26, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
I teach Pre-K. I hug the children if they hug me first. Most hugs at this age are around the hips. They are 4-5 years old. I have students that have had recent deaths in the family, little parental support, abuse, neglect, and ones who just love everyone. If they reach out to me, I am going to hug them back. Do I initiate hugs? No. I can’t believe anyone would tell me not to hug them back.
By sue
October 26, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
There are wonderful teachers out there that hug their students. I think that a teacher that hugs should be cognizant not only of a child’s culture, but also the way they react to a hug. If the child pulls away or is in anyway uncomfortable, it is inappropriate. But generally speaking, a quick hug in a classroom full of other kids, is not a problem.
Now, an adult alone with a child in an embrace, is a totally different subject……….
I think it is sad that people can’t distinguish the two.
By SET
October 26, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
I’m not claiming that - typo.. sorry!
By Cosmo
October 26, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this
SET - A hug can mean any number of things - compassion, friendship, warmth and does not necessarily denote an act of perversion. Your incessant postings on this subject appears to indicate severe intimacy issues.
There is nothing wrong with a teacher hugging a student as long as there is no objection by the child or their parents - and I would venture to guess the students in this teacher’s class excel compared to others in the same school who aren’t in his class. I would assume if there have been any issues with this teacher Patti would have noted so in her article.
By JustMe
October 26, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
I am a high school teacher….
A hug? Are you kidding me? A teacher last year was fired from my school for tapping a student on the shoulder to wake up. We are stictly told never ever to touch a student in any way.
That being said, a teacher that retired last year nevertheless made it a regular thing to hug students. She was everyone’s idea of the perfect grandmother figure and could get away with a lot more than a male teacher ever could.
What do I do? I try to keep and maintain some distance. I have had students run up to me and give me a hug, but I never initiate it. One just never knows how quickly others are to scream sexual harassment.
By frank123
October 26, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
My kid are in 5th and 9th grades. My daughter hugged her 4th grade teacher because she liked the teacher so much.
However, with male teachers, I am less comfortable with that. Double standard, yes!!. But is based on statistics on who the molesters are- nearly all white males.
One LA priest molester stated that if the boy hugged him back, he considered that consent to molest the boy.
By TheOne
October 26, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this
I think this situation is very different depending on the age/class level of the students. When my child was in Pre-K/Kindergarten, she would hug her (female) teacher from time to time, and I had no problem with it (as did other parents). But now that my child is in high school (even at the middle school level), I have VERY different views on this. There were certain teachers in middle school (most of her TAG teachers) that she really liked, and when it was time to leave after having them as teachers for all three years, yes, she did give out hugs. In high school, I say this…..DON’T TOUCH MY CHILD, esp. if you’re a male teacher. As for the female teachers, DON’T TOUCH MY CHILD unless she initiates the hug. I know all of her teachers, and I know exactly who she would feel this is okay from, and who it would be awkward coming from. Unfortunately these days, you can’t really trust the male or female teachers…..either one could be after your son or daughter!!!! Sign of the times!!!
By Travelinman
October 26, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
I have to say I am appalled by many of the comments I am reading here. I think we have taken things WAY beyond the bounds of common sense and into some kind of paranoid, deeply troubled culture.
To the user SET, I simply don’t want to live in the world you inhabit. Human beings, including kids, need touch as a basic need. If a kid wants/needs a hug then they should get one. Now obviously if someone is ‘forcing’ a hug on someone that is a different story. But to have a blanket rule that says “no touching of anyone ever”, not only is that stupid I think its harmful.
I fear for the future of the kids today…
TM
By high school teacher
October 26, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
Let me define a hug in the high school educational realm… a side armed hug in the presence of others, not an imtimate, two armed front hug. Do I hug my students every day? No. But I hug students to offer congratulations, to console, to welcome back after a long absence, etc. By no means is this man-handling. I believe that it is more accepted in the south than other places. If I felt that I made a student uncomfortable, then I wouldn’t do it. Give me some credit, SET.
By JustMe
October 26, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this
frank123 -
Your so-called statistics are not right at all. There are more female sexual predators as teachers compared to males. Watch the news once in a while.
The difference is that our society often seems to think that it is cool or okay for an older female to have sex with (or even a baby with) a younger male. However, the reverse is considered child molestation. A double standard? Yes.
But do not believe for one second that adult females do not make advances to male students. Two years ago a female teacher at my school was asked to not return the next year because of her affair with a male student. Again, if it were a male teacher doing something like this, he would have been in jail in a heart beat and headlining on the news!
By Jason Hunter
October 26, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
I don’t see anything wrong with a simple hug. Actually hugs are what we need more of. Especially in today’s time. I am the founder of a company that was inspired by the power of my late mother’s hugs. www.free-hugs.com Take a look and see how important hugs are to men, women and children.
By Stacey
October 26, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this
Tricky question. I agree with TheOne in that it depends on the age of the kids. My son’s pre-k teacher had the kids trained by the 3rd day to come in and give her a hug. If they didn’t do it, it was fine but most of them loved it (and her). My son saw her in Kroger since he left her class and ran up and gave her a hug, much to her delight.
I don’t think I would object if the kids are 1st grade or younger. Some of them may be leaving home for the first time and want that comforting reassurance. After that, they should be used to school / new environments. The exception is as someone pointed out, is if the student has received bad news or something tramatic happened at school. Also, if it’s a celebratory hug (won an award or something like that). In situations like that, I don’t think a hug is inappropriate no matter what the age or gender.
By Patti Ghezzi
October 26, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
Hi all, Alan Simpson, the press guy for the National Association for the Education of Young Children, sent me this:
“I just read your latest blog entry, and it’s an interesting connection to our newest book, ‘Essential Touch: Meeting the Needs of Young Children.’
Here’s the summary from the author, Frances Carlson: Some early childhood programs have adopted no-touch policies, and others allow only a very minimal level of physical contact between teachers and children. Yet touch is as necessary as food or water for young children to thrive and grow physically, cognitively, socially, and emotionally. Experiences of touch in all its forms - whether nurturing touch from adults, tactile explorations of the environment, or physical interactions with peers -are essential to high-quality early care and education. From this book, practitioners will learn just why touch is essential in young children’s development and how it can be incorporated safely in early childhood settings, from the infant program to the primary classroom.
By myopinion
October 26, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
Its ok to hug now there is a difference in hugging someone and being intimate. I hug kids only because I care for them not because Im being intimate. Just like there is a diffence in spanking your child and beating your child.
By Taxpayer
October 26, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
High school teacher, I agree with you that frequent hugging does seem to be a “Southern thing.” Not sure why, though. I’m the parent of a girl in high school, and your definition of a hug seems right to me.
I also agree with TheOne that hugging or not hugging depends on the age of the kid involved. I volunteer with kids, and the moment I sit down, a preschooler comes over and plops down in my lap. When I see these little folks out somewhere, they run up and give me hugs. Should I really turn these kids away? Of course not.
By cimmaryn
October 26, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
I work in an elementary school, and most of us hug. I have a position where I interact with all of the grades, and find there are some 5th graders who want hugs (though not as many or as often as the younger students).
I agree that hugs should be initiated by the student, or we should ask a student if they want a hug (this is what we teach them, after all). A lot of our little guys may not have good role models for positive, respectful physical affection, and it is an opportunity to teach them (imo).
I know I would not refuse a child who asked for a hug. I find myself offering reassurance and praise along with a gentle touch (a pat on the head or shoulder, for example).
I have had a few students who, when asked, did not want a hug and that was perfectly okay. The hug is not about me…it’s about them, wanting to encourage them and let them know they are cared for.
I am female (which makes it easier), and I would interact differently with HS and/or MS students. I have never had a parent complain about my interaction with the students.
YMMV
By Patti Ghezzi
October 26, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this
If there really is a difference between a “side hug” and a frontal hug, I will add that the hugs given and received in this classroom were of the side variety…
Please keep the comments coming… I think I’m showing my Reporter With No Kids side on this one.
By SET
October 26, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this
As to the male teachers:
Remember I’m a lawyer - I do criminal cases. I’m by nature somewhat conservative. My point of view is skewed by my work where I walk into these disasters and try to throw enough oil on the water to get a resoloution people can live with. Around here misdemeanor sexual battery is a lifetime sex offender registration. That penalty is so draconian you might have to jump on a simple battery plea to avoid the risk of losing the original charge at trial even if you could probably beat it. Or go to trial, pay the attorney and take the chances. In CA in sex cases your prior sexuality will probably come into evidence so kiss your privacy goodbye.
To those posters who write about how the world should be - wake up and smell the coffee. Yes you are probably not going to be put in front of a judge and jury for patting a kid on the head or shaking them awake. But do you have any idea how you sound to a judge and jury when you speak that: kids need hugs, I don’t want to teach if I can’t hug the children, etc. etc??
The point I’m making applies to CA specifically where I am well aware of the laws, the jury instruction and the jury attitudes. I have tried over 25 sex cases and I’ve interviewed jury members in the hall after the verdicts. Each trial spent at least a day sometimes 2 selecting a jury, and each sex trial went through generally 100 jurors to get a panel of 12. I know how jurors feel about this subject and it’s not pretty.
You can’t claim a right to get intimate with other people’s kids. You can’t stand there and tell a court about how you need to put your hands on other people’s kids to “help” them, to “make them feel good” and all that. Are you teachers or massage therapists? The first job of a defense attorney is to keep the foolish client’s mouth shut before he does any more harm to himself.
I don’t remember all that much hugging going on in the 1960s and this isn’t the 1960s at all. If you make a practice of hugging school children nowadays (as an adult male teacher) it’s only a matter of time before something terrible happens, and when it does, you’re going to claim that you’re the victim just like every sex defendant I’ve ever met. And maybe the kid only thought he/she felt or saw an erection. But you’re the one who put yourself in this position.
Then when your criminal law attorney quotes you a bargain basement price of $5000 cash up front to do the misdemeanor instead of being terribly grateful for the discount you’ll complain that you’re being gouged. I’ve seen people paying $10,000 for attorney fees on misdemeanor sex cases that were plea bargained.
Parents are not sending any of their kids to public school nowadays to be manhandled by adult male staff unless it’s to discipline them - break up fights - deal with emergencies. You start running your hands over the kiddies at your peril. And don’t think they will “complain” first. You can go to work in the morning and wind up in the dock that afternoon. People are throwing accusations around from things that happened so long ago you can’t possibly remember the incident.
Now having said this - women can hug with less risk. That’s life. Call it a double standard. Reality bites.
By teach overseas
October 26, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this
Male teachers should (and almost all do) know better. Even as a female teacher, I made sure that the door was always open when I was in the room with a student by myself. And if I had to talk to a student one on one- I did it out in the hall. Less private- but safer for me.
In this day and age- all people who work with children have to make every effort to make sure that everything is and looks to be completely above any possible reproach. This is not only for the protection of the student- but the teacher as well. It only takes a hint or something not right and a teachers career could be totally ruined.
Personally, I fear for this teacher- while the admin might smile from afar- one complaint by one parent and this teacher will end up with a letter of reprimand in his file (at the very least). The admin will not stand behind him. A smart teacher would not put his career on the line over something like hugs. If he is willing to put himself at such risk- I question his judgement.
By SET
October 26, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this
Patti..
My comments were primarily directed at frontal hugs. But the comments on boundries and intimacy still apply to all the touchy-feely behavior with the male teachers.
Worker safety and working conditions are a pet concern of mine. I am really bothered by workers who get in trouble while at work. Especially when the employer (who is responsible for the workplace) fires them, refuses to pay for their legal defense, and claims that everything was the employee’s doing and the employer has no responsibility for anything.
You just have to see some of these teachers in trouble cases… people always assume that if their heart is pure they won’t be put on trial for (effectively) their life. WRONG. And the public school kids around this state are salted with very damaged children and parents. You can’t predict what they will say and do and why. I don’t agree with it but the public policy here is “if the victim says it happened, he goes on trial - no matter how implausible”.
The huggers had better make sure their pockets are empty.
By OldSchool
October 26, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this
I have been hugged both ways. The culture is a bit different here in very South Georgia. We are a rural/small town area with only one high school (1200 students). Nearly everyone knows everyone and almost everyone hugs.
I’ve even had a former student give me such a bear hug, it nearly cracked my ribs. Would I sue? Heck no! This was a kid who asked me NOT to put my hand on his shoulder after he saw me pat a kid on the back for a job well done. No problem. It is a mutual respect thing between me and my students. They know I’m huggable and they let me know when they need a hug.
There are always others around as my room is a gathering place for a number of students who have various reasons for needing such.
We all need a little appropriate human contact and a hug fits me just right. (Besides, I taught many of their parents and a few grandparents and they hugged too.)
It would NEVER even enter my mind to do anything inappropriate to any of my students. I’m not that kind of person.
By Taxpayer
October 26, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this
TheOne commented earlier that hugging seems to be more common in the South, so SET, I can’t really relate to what you keep saying. You have sounded the alarm for all of us, teachers and parents, and we heard you. Can you not accept or even consider that culture and geography influence behavior and customs? (And that pocket comment was just plain gratuitous.)
By Lisa B.
October 26, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this
I don’t hug my 4th graders much. If a child hugs me, I return with a very quick side-hug. Frankly, my 4th graders the last two years haven’t sought hugs as often as students from earlier times. It may have something to do with the fact that we recently had a highly-publicized molestation case which resulted in a 30-year sentence for the teacher involved. Parents have probably warned their kids not to get too close to their teachers. Incidently, none of the teachers in my school believe the teacher did what she was accused of, but that didn’t help in court.
Yep, I rarely hug anymore.
By FemalesCanHugMe
October 26, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this
AMEN to that JustMe about the female teachers. Boy what I’d give to be in middle school again. :)
OK Seriously, I don’t even HUG them rascals at church. I’ve noticed that they will HUG you on Sunday but if they see you any other day they will just say hello, or wave or give you a handshake. But if you like hugging, go for it. But as a male, I don’t want no guy hugging me period.
By Lynn
October 26, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this
Yes, hugging is needed in any school. A tap on the arm may be appropriate for some students, a big hug might be needed for others, or just a squeeze on the shoulder may be adequate for a few. The kids, young and teen, are crying out for structure, rules, and genuine sincereness. So much is lacking in other areas of their life that many reach out to teachers to be the solid adult influence they so desperately need. NCLB would say that we need to create a standard, essential question, and class activity for this. I disagree. I think that all of us teachers need to be fair, firm, and responsive to those who depend on us so mightily for their training for their adult world. I think we as teachers need to be allowed to assess and respond realistically again.
By SET
October 26, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this
Taxpayer - I thought the point needed to be made. The attitude I see from the bloggers on this subjects is painful as I doubt they realize how vulnerable they are to these accusations. They assume you have to actually do something wrong to get in trouble. Appearances alone can get you into real trouble. A mistaken opinion is good evidence at trial.
When you meet the defendants of these cases (simple accusation with no physical evidence) they are in shock and despondent at the price they are paying for a “misunderstanding”. Maybe in GA children & teenagers don’t make such accusations - or their families don’t obsess in destroying someone.
20 years ago I was in the courtroom once when a verdict came in, a teacher was accused of fondling a child during the playing of a movie in a classroom full of kids while the room was darkened. No one else noticed a thing. The jury acquitted the defendant. The mother of the child in question became hysterical and screamed at the jury as the walked down the hall. The teacher had no prior history of problems. Even so, she so believed her child she was ready to attack the jury itself. The defense said any touching was innocuous.
That mother was a colleague. She couldn’t see the other side of the story. It was the child’s word against the teacher with no corroboration and that’s the very definition of reasonable doubt. But nowadays, he might have lost that trial. (Most charged sex cases here settle with a conviction of something - nonsex if the defendant is lucky.) I doubt the defendant ever professionally recovered from the experience. He was older, I think he retired.
I don’t believe your (GA) culture and geography will insulate you much longer from the trends that start on the left coast. People are all looking at the same TV shows and movies. Cultural difference may erode.
I hope I’m wrong. But I don’t think the teachers should put themselves at this risk.
By I_Teach
October 26, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this
I teach, second grade, by the way.
I am hugged COUNTLESS times…by my own students, former students, male, female, co-workers, admins, and even parents. I even have kids whose names I don’t even KNOW hug me in the hallway!
I am aware of the people who don’t like to be hugged. However, sometimes hugging ME is what will get these kids off to a good start in the morning, after a morning full of rushing and stressing. Kids need hugs. Adults need hugs. If one of my students-former or current- comes up and hugs me, I hug ‘em back!
My sons, 19 and 17, had/have teachers that they hugged and still hug. Their teachers realize that this is not a sexual advance. I am not worried that when one of my 17 yr old’s teachers hugs him, she will molest him or begin a Mrs. Robinson-like affair with him.
So, what? I should worry that a male student-or former student swings by my classroom four times a day to give me a hug? Or that the parents (both male and female) of former students hug me upon seeing me?
My job entails MORE than just teaching academics; I am psychological counselor; surrogate mommy; nurse; confidante, when something’s going on they need to share. My kids TRUST me, and in turn, I know I can trust them to hug me. One of my current students walked in this morning. Jacket still on, backpack still on—first thing she said was, “May I PLEASE hug you?” I told her that she was always welcome to hug me when she wanted. She apparently needed it this morning. Far be it from me to tell her, “No, wait ‘til other kids/adults walk in!”
By I_Teach
October 26, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this
Oh yah….
Three years ago, I had a child (male) in my room. DEFINITELY not a hugger, which was fine. However, he’d come up to me, and gently ‘bump’ into me and smile. This was his equivalent of a hug. Instead of hugging him as he walked out the door, as most of my others clamored for, he got a high five, or a handshake.
The last day of school, he amazed both me and his parents, by being the FIRST to give me this ENORMOUS hug in front of everyone. Til this day his mom still talks about that, because apparently, he doesn’t hug anyone at home, either. When asked what prompted it, he announced that I ‘made him feel like he was great all year.’
During crazy weeks like this one, it’s memories (and the hugs!) that keep me showing up each day!
By V for Vendetta
October 27, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this
Lol, I’m late to the party on this one. I read many of the earlier posts though, and I have to say I don’t think SET is too far off base on this one.
Simply put: If you are a male teacher, especially a YOUNG male teacher (not sure if this guy is or not), you are on thin ice when it comes to hugging kids. Just play it safe and go with the “open hug” or the “side hug”. Sorry, but that’s the world we live in.
By OldSchool
October 27, 2006 08:46 AM | Link to this
My darlin’ husband taught for 31 years (6,7 8th grades) and pulled early morning duty for all of those years. He was hugged by kids from pre-k through 8th and hugged them back (VERY seldom the full-on hug). He subs from time to time and the little kids still remember and hug him. He is a gentle man and a complete gentleman whose Southern mama raised right. Inappropriate actions have never and will never even occur to him.
I realize that there are those adults of both genders who are prone to prey upon their young charges but there are by far many, many more of us who will love and protect them; who will hug and be hugged; who will never ever do anything that would damage either the child or our careers/family/self.
And V for Vendetta- my very first teaching assignment was across the hall from an ancient old math teacher who would pull high school girls onto his lap and put his arms around them. The administration in that school (not my current one or even in a nearby county) just looked the other way and the girls never complained. Needless to say, as soon as my contractual obligations were up, I was outta there and never looked back. It’s not just YOUNG men. Predators can come in all sizes, genders, shapes, ages, whatevers. They are the ones who capture the headlines but still, they are NOT the norm.
By ricecakes
October 27, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this
I am not in agreement for any teacher male or female hugging my daughter. Reason being, because you never know who the child molesters are….hugging is a form of intimacy. You have to have body contact to hug and that is not okay. We are now seeing just as many female teachers having sex with their male students. Ask yourself “is the teacher receiving some type of pleasure by hugging the male and/or female students”? You just never know. One day it could be hugging and the next a hug could lead to something else.
By Concerned Mom in Cobb
October 27, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this
To the extreme, my daughter and other children in middle school are being manhandled and bullied by teachers. Shoved on the floor, pushed into a desk, grabbed by the shoulders to redirect - this is the second year we are dealing with this. Admin tells us, “It has been taken care of.” But no one will guarantee us that this teacher will have no further contact with our child.
While I am all about nurturing teachers, this “no touch” policy is in place for a reason. It is apparent, at least at our school, that some teachers don’t know where the line is drawn.
By jim d
October 27, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this
Just my opinion.
Keep your hands off!
Let me start by saying I’m a hugger. I hug friends when we meet; I hug all the ladies when introduced in a personal setting. I see nothing wrong with this
What I think the huggy teachers posting here have forgotten or perhaps have chosen to ignore is that the classroom is a professional setting and deserves to be treated as such.
Oddly, I’ve noticed that some of the same teachers supporting hugging are some of the regulars here to the blog that become rather irate over teacher respect issues.
Quite often familiarity breeds contempt. So why are teachers upset over the lack of respect when they are the ones (in this instance) that have broken the barrier of professionalism by becoming intimate with the children in their charge.
Moreover, I’ve noticed these are some of the same posters that keep harping on parental responsibility, posting advise to parents to stop being their kids friends—-and be their parent, That they can’t do both.
You can’t have it both ways either folks, it’s time for YOU to get off the fence and make a choice. You can either be their friend or be their teacher just as you have advised parents to make a choice of being their kids friend or parent.
By V for Vendetta
October 27, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
Old School —
You’re very right, there are plenty of “dirty old men” out there as well. I’ve been witness to similar acts myself. Scary!
By TP
October 27, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
I teach high school and coach. I hug my athletes more than my students in class. But if a student is having a hard day I have no problem hugging them.
By mummy
October 27, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this
I know a teacher who was told to stop hugging and avoid any physical contact. There was a student who loved hugging that had been a victim of sexual abuse. In this situation, either the school didn’t know, or they failed to inform the teacher at the beginning of school. When you always hug your own children and you come from a hugging family, this is a natural extension of a nurturing person. Of course, people think first of ulterior motives especially the fact it is a male teacher, but there are children who don’t get that emotional support at home, especially the little ones in elementary school, and they suffer because of the actions of some sick adults. I do think though that you have to be careful, especially as a man, that you keep on your guard for the child who is especialy “touchy” because there can be other problems at play. I really don’t have a problem with hugging (within reason) at the early elementary level because the little ones seem to thrive on being touchy-feely.
By parentof2
October 27, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this
I would not want a male teacher to ever hug either of my children, boy or girl, at any grade level. I would be very upset if I saw or heard about it and I would complain to the central office and skip the principal.
I say this because my husband is a criminal attorney and I have heard the stories at home that SET is telling you here in this blog. One consistent trait in every sexual predator he has prosecuted is that they chose a vocation or avocation that allowed them respectable access to children.
After years of these stories, quite frankly, I am suspicious of men who choose to teach elementary school—period—not highschool or middle school, but elementary school. I would be hyper vigilant if a child of mine were in class with a male elementary school teacher. And if I ever heard of him hugging students, I would be swift and harsh in my response.
Sorry—but that’s the way I see it. (And again, its years and years of hearing dreadful, sick, stories that most people would never believe about people most people would never supsect.)
By abc
October 27, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this
I’d prefer that teachers keep their hands off my kids. I’ve noticed that teachers and administrators seem to like to hug each other a lot, I find it curious in that I can’t imagine that kind of behavior being acceptable in any other corporate, business or professional environment.
By jim d
October 27, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this
y’all lighten up on the dirty old men teachers.
How bout those dirty mid life female teachers? They seem to be getting all the recent press.
By jim d
October 27, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this
y’all lighten up on the dirty old men teachers.
How bout those dirty mid life female teachers? They seem to be getting all the recent press.
By teacherparent
October 27, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
I am a parent and an elementary level therapist. I work with grades K-5. A lot of kids give hugs. They initiate the hugs. especially the K-1 students who like to give group hugs that are just about knee level. My daughter attends a middle school where there is a large faculty with nontraditional sexual preferences. She has not been put in any uncomfortable situations where teachers tried to hug her. My child is a hugger. So I am sure that she has probably initiated a hug or two since leaving elementary school. Children do perform better and have less stress when they believe thir teachers like them. All teachers are not out to molest children. There are some of us who really care about the kids. Wow, it is very sad that out society has come to think that a teacher hugging a student in wrong :-(
By Nikki
October 27, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this
I can’t remember a grade-level where I didn’t have at least one teacher who gave and recieved hugs. In fact, in high school there was at least one teacher to whom anyone with a problem went (not the counsellor, just everyone loved her) and she gave out lots of hugs. As did my female English/Drama teacher and my male US History teacher, along with nearly every professor with whom I was on good terms in college. These teachers and professors were my friends, my confidantes, my mentors, and their compassion and fire continue to shape my habits and attitudes toward learning today. At least teachers who hug CARE. That’s more than you can say for the ones that are so detached they could be anywhere else, doing anything else. God forbid someone wants to nurture their students and be a positive force in their lives.
By Ernest
October 27, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
Parentof2, your comment I am suspicious of men who choose to teach elementary school is interesting. I say that because of the many comments I hear contrary to that regarding the need for more men in ES. Admittedly, the reason given is so they could serve a role models for students that may not have a positive role model in their life. I’m curious what others think about that…
Bear in mind Parentof2, I’m not questioning your beliefs….
By OldSchool
October 27, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this
jim dear and others, it’s not like I hug on a daily basis. It is always spontaneous and usually initiated by the student. I do get a lot of visits from graduated students and nearly every one of them hug me and pat me on the back when they do. Maybe I’m just approachable and they know that I have absolutely no underhanded motives.
Likely it is the same for other teachers. Kids usually have pretty good instincts about grownups and I dare say if you looked at the number of classroom teachers in Georgia and compared to the number who have inappropriate relationships or engage in inappropriate activities, it would be a very small percentage. Maybe we’d discover that more kids are suffering inappropriate stuff at home instead of school. Food for thought…
By Not Paranoid
October 27, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this
I would think that hugging in Elementary school is not as bad as later grades. I know that I would have loved to have more hugs as a kid, even if it was from a teacher. I feel that as long as the teacher is not forcing himself on the children, and it is supervised, then don’t fret. Now, I wouldn’t necessarily let my children be with this teacher alone, like for a field trip or a sleepover, which would be very much out of line. But a hug for a young child is encouraging and comforting, and not all parents provide that environment for their children. I feel that I have taught my children how to say no, and how to protect themselves from any sexual abuse, and if anything were to happen my kids would feel comfortable telling me or authorities.
By MMM
October 27, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this
I find that there are alot of people who are just “suspicious of men”.
Often elementary education is one of the last place where women make up the vast majority of employees—so the lone male isn’t alway able to be “one of the women” in casual social conversations. This is every bit as lonely as being the only women in the executive suite, or the only black, or the one in a private school on a needs scholarship when all your classmates are talking about what kind of car they expect to be given when they turn 16, etc.
It is sad that this alienation is still very much real—-and I would ask parentof2 to consider that even if what she has heard is true. Have you considered what proportion of the total number of male elementary teachers is actually reflected in the stories you hear? I bet it is a very small percentage. To prejude all men who choose to teach young children is neither more nor less unfair than all the other ways we label and then treat differently.
By EW
October 27, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
Well Ernest — I’m questioning Parentof2 beliefs. The assertion to question any male that decides to teach elementary school children is simply absurd. As matter of fact as a poster mentioned above, schools are begging for males to come in and teach in the elementary school environment. Children need to see any gender and ethnicity in all different aspects of life -that’s what makes a well rounded and diverse population.
I’m going to say it and I’m sure get the backlash… some of my peers question males sexuality more than anything when they decided to teach elementary - as if all male teachers in elementary are gay. IF they are SO WHAT????
As for hugs, I hug my students if they initiate it, some of my students need a hug, they have no family support and live in deplorable conditions. Many of my “gang bangers� come and get a hug and ask how I’m doing (I’m pregnant) and just have a genuine, caring, attitude. We have a mutual respect for each other, and remember NO child will learn from you until they know that you have their best interest at heart.
By JustMyOpinion
October 27, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
Wow. I can’t believe how far humans have come, and yet we have still not arrived. I can’t say I have to say that I have mixed feeling on this issue. While I do believe hugs are a necessary action for humans in general, in some cases it can definitely be inappropriate. As for school age children, whether they are in elementary or high school, I don’t see it to be an issue if the parent is aware and approves of it. Even in this case I would still be cautious. As for myself, my 5th and 7th grade girls hug not only their female teachers, but also the male teachers; however I’ve been teaching them ever since they were toddlers, what I would deem as non-appropriate behavior from any adult who has contact with them. They know if they don’t feel comfortable, they can tell me or their father and we will handle it. Also for though who comment that teacher should only be teachers, I have to say I disagree. I definitely feel that a teacher should be more to a student; a teacher should be a mentor, friend, and counselor also. I know that there are boundaries, but these roles are necessary for teacher to reach some students.
By Stacey
October 27, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
I also found Parentof2’s comment about being suspicious of male elementary school teachers interesting. My son had a young male pre-k teacher and I was absolutely thrilled! Even though my son comes from a two parent home, many of these kids don’t and I think it’s good for them to have a positive male role model in a teacher. This teacher was definitely not the hugging type with the boys or girls but was more of the disciplinarian. All of the kids loved him as a father figure.
I talk to my son about looking out for predators. I told him that no one should touch him in his private area nor try to kiss him. He even knows that Mommy & Daddy aren’t allowed to touch him unless we are helping him bathe or if he’s hurt. He yelled loud enough to alert the whole office when his doctor reached for his waistband while doing his school physical and I was standing right there!
Yes, we need to be cautious but we can’t afford to be paranoid. Our kids are going to have to be out of our sight at some time and with adults that we have to learn to trust. Talk to your kids and make sure that they know that there are boundaries that no one, not even you, can cross.
By EW
October 27, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
Oh and by the way — “teachers should only be teachers” ~ you can’t have your cake and eat it too! If you want me to only be a teacher, then start being a parent. Send them prepared everyday, (pencil, paper etc..) buy them the supplies needed for projects, send them to school with lunch money, teach them manners and RESPECT and make me not have to be their parent as well as their teacher, please.
By parentof2
October 27, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
Parents have to be very wary of any and all adults who are in positions of trust with our children. My husband’s work on the darker, sicker side of the world has made me form a bias against men who seem overly interested in young children who are not their own.
You can call it anything want—prejudice, sexism, whatever—it’s what it is. I have a deep seated belief that men who devote their lives to caring for other people’s small children as an occupation are unusual in our culture. And I am very suspicious of the motivation behind that unusual trait.
(I would like to say “outside of sports,” but since coaching is a very common way for predators to get close to kids, I keep an eye on those guys too. I would not tolerate hugging or touching there either.)
I believe it and I am not alone, nor am I without cause for my beliefs. And this is important for the male teacher to know.
The bottom line here is not whether or not I am unfairly biased; it’s whether teachers should hug children—especially male teachers.
Even if he is absolutely convinced that I am just a crazy bigot, it doesn’t change the facts. As a teacher his intentions may be pure, but I cannot know that and my first job is to protect my children. Therefore, if I were to see or hear of a male teacher in my school regularly hugging little children, especially my own, I would act swiftly to put a stop to it and to have my child removed from his class.
And as I said, I would not call the teacher or the principal; I would call the central office and I would be very, very upset. My next call, if it did not stop immediately, would be the police. And as SET said, the teacher would never see it coming. To me, that behavior is so inappropriate that I would not feel any courtesy was required.
There are lots and lots of parents out there just like me. So the male teacher who hugs the kids all the time should consider this fair warning. One day the wrong mother or a father is going to see you hugging their kid and you are going to regret it. So save yourself this trouble and stop doing it.
Probably, your intentions are very pure, but many people’s aren’t and since parents can’t tell the difference until its too late, you have to stop doing it to keep yourself above reproach. Its too bad, but as I tell my children often, bad people ruin things for good people all the time.
And if that doesn’t convince him, he should consider that he could be wrongly accused some day by a damgaged kid and then his history of hugging and touching kids will be the proverbial nail in his coffin.
By Cammi
October 27, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this
John Karr says he may be going back to teaching soon…..hugs, hugs, hugs……NOT!
By sad at this state of affairs
October 27, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
I taught for a while in high school, and as a younger male teacher, I didn’t hug anybody, but it is sad to see how paranoid you have to be…I was always aware that one student could ruin my life if they wanted to—and some have done so to teachers in the past. As far as those who say you are a “professional” and must act professionally. How many other professionals spend their day with just kids all day long. To say that it is very inappropriate for anyone to touch your kid is kind of crazy. As a teacher, you often are with the same student over an hour a day, for months or years on end. How many parents don’t spend much more time than that with their kids? My point is, you are far from a scary adult stranger to these kids. You know them as well as any other adult in their lives often. You would do better, in fact, to be more paranoid of your own family, statistically, since it is much, much more likely that Uncle Jimmy or Grandpa is going to be the one molesting your kid. Sad world we live in when the kids need hugs, and teachers who are motivated out of genuine care for another human being have to stifle their deep human desire to give comfort to a hurting person lest they are looked at as predators. It’s one reason people are not rushing to become teachers—asked to be everything to these kids but to stay “professional”, aka a robot.
By Taxpayer
October 27, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this
jim d. — lay off the mid-life ladies! Last I saw and heard, it was MOST OFTEN the very young female teachers who were going after those male students.
By EW
October 27, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this
Parentof2 - I understand as I’m a parent as well, however I don’t agree. You must train and trust your children to be advocates for themselves to a certain degree, teach them that inappropriate touching is not acceptable by anyone, but to penalize someone for being a man is wrong and yes, it does smell of a bigot. Who’s to say that next it wont be African American males or Chinese males, even thought the research says Caucasian males have a better chance of being a predator… Don’t you see how this can turn real ugly? While, you’re watching those teachers, watch those family predators…
By sad at this state of affairs
October 27, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
parentof2,
I understand your concern with your kid’s welfare, but holy crap you are high strung. I don’t know for sure, but you seem like you’ve probably made a few perfectly good teacher’s lives hell with your insane overreaction. If you see a teacher shake your kids hand, maybe you should just fly to Washington and insist on talking to George W. Bush immediately!!! Good thing your husband doesn’t write books about Son of Sam or you’d have a private investigator tail your mailman. Chill out, TurboCooker. Not everyone is out to assault your precious kids—perhaps a visit to a stress management therapist is in order. Sorry to sound harsh, but you are really a little nutty-sounding. I would be running from your kids in school for fear they might try to hug me and thereby ruin my life.
By parentof2
October 27, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
EW: Yes, I watch those people too. I have to say that you sound a little naive to me. And as for the “who will it be next”—well if research was out there supporting that chinese grandmas were the most likely sexual predators, then I would watch those grandmas pretty closely.
I’m not going to argue with you about the merits of my thinking. Anyone who has worked or lived wiht someone who works with sexually abused children or sexual predators knows that I am being smart and you are fooling yourself.
I will add this for you: Almost every single sexual predator my husband has prosecuted had people from his own family or his school or his church crying on the stand about what a fine man he is and how this could never be true.
And as for the teaching children to be their own advocate advice—certainly that is required. And wouldn’t it be wonderful if that were enough to protect our children? Sexual predators are very, very good at what they do. They devote their entire lives to it. We can never ever be vigilant enough; profiling potential predators based on my own research and experience is part of being vigilant, and if doing that makes me a bigot—well, then mark me with a B.
By thomas
October 27, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this
I find it very disheartening that people nowadays are so suspicious of teachers, and men in general. Our society has been focused on portraying men, particularly white men, as devious, evil, and worthy of scorn, contempt, and fear.
Personally, as a male teacher, I don’t hug. I do not hug not out of fear, but it is not in my personality. I am not the huggy type. And you know what? I find that when the students realize you are not huggy type, they generally don’t want to hug you. However I have never taught kindergarden or first grade, so it is probably different there.
By Stacey
October 27, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this
Parentof2…I really am not attacking you but I just don’t understand and/or agree with your logic. Are male pediatricians okay? What about life guards and camp counselors? Elementary school principal? School bus drivers?
Predators come in all shapes, sizes, genders, races and occupations. Kindly old 75 year old Mr. Brown next door is just as dangerous as 30 year old Mr. Smith, the 2nd grade art teacher.
By parentof2
October 27, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this
I think you should to do a little (and it will only take a little) research on child sexual predators and my logic will be clear to you.
Convicted child predators admit that they choose their occupations, volunteer activities, living arrangements, relationships, and basically everything in their lives with the idea in mind that it will increase their accessibility to children.
They particularly choose activities where they are placed in a position of trust with children. They go to great lengths to gain the trust of children and their parents because it makes assaulting children a lot easier for them.
They choose to be camp counselors, boy scout leaders, pediatric physicians and nurses, church youth leaders, pastors, child care workers, elementary school teachers, people who give lessons to children of any kind—piano, skating, swimming, karate—anything to do with children is a possibility for them.
Child predators make a point of appearing to love children for magnanimous, nurturing purposes. Then, ironically, when they are caught, they will offer up their reputation for nurturing children as evidence that they would not ever harm children. And people around them will often, mistakenly—foolishly—defend them on that basis as well.
I’m not saying that all male teachers choose to be teachers only because they are sexual predators. Of course that would be silly. I’m saying that we know without dispute that teaching is one of the occupations people who are sexual predators will seek out.
Unfortunately, making the choice to spend a lot of time with little children not related to them is one of many warning signs that a person may be a sexual predator. Is it unfair to the extremely vast majority of people who choose to do that because they love children? Absolutely. It is a paradox, but it is also a fact.
Yes, there are men who are perfectly normal who want to teach and care for children, but they are not the majority.
Do we have to watch women as well. Of course, anyone can be an abuser. I say this and I am a woman who devotes all my volunteer time to working with small children. Are child sexual predators more likely to be men—yes they are. That’s not bigotry, that’s a fact.
As for your comment about old men, young predators grow to be old predators—it makes no difference. I monitor carefully anyone who has close, unsupervised access to my children regardless of age. But for all the reasons above, I am more suspicious of a man with no familial connection to me who wants to care for my children. I have to wonder why he has made that choice. Statisically, he is an anomaly.
For all these reasons, anyone who works with children needs to be very careful about touching children, being alone with children, and especially being physically affectionate with children who are not their own. Hence my position on hugging.
I don’t know how to explain it any more clearly. Again, if you are really interested, do a tiny bit of research. You will see for yourself—I’m not making this stuff up. If you have children, you would be wise to learn a little more about it.
By parentof2
October 27, 2006 06:02 PM | Link to this
I think you should to do a little (and it will only take a little) research on child sexual predators and my logic will be clear to you.
Convicted child predators admit that they choose their occupations, volunteer activities, living arrangements, relationships, and basically everything in their lives with the idea in mind that it will increase their accessibility to children.
They particularly choose activities where they are placed in a position of trust with children. They go to great lengths to gain the trust of children and their parents because it makes assaulting children a lot easier for them.
They choose to be camp counselors, boy scout leaders, pediatric physicians and nurses, church youth leaders, pastors, child care workers, elementary school teachers, people who give lessons to children of any kind—piano, skating, swimming, karate—anything to do with children is a possibility for them.
Child predators make a point of appearing to love children for magnanimous, nurturing purposes. Then, ironically, when they are caught, they will offer up their reputation for nurturing children as evidence that they would not ever harm children. And people around them will often, mistakenly—foolishly—defend them on that basis as well.
I’m not saying that all male teachers choose to be teachers only because they are sexual predators. Of course that would be silly. I’m saying that we know without dispute that teaching is one of the occupations people who are sexual predators will seek out.
Unfortunately, making the choice to spend a lot of time with little children not related to them is one of many warning signs that a person may be a sexual predator. Is it unfair to the extremely vast majority of people who choose to do that because they love children? Absolutely. It is a paradox, but it is also a fact.
Yes, there are men who are perfectly normal who want to teach and care for children, but they are not the majority.
Do we have to watch women as well. Of course, anyone can be an abuser. I say this and I am a woman who devotes all my volunteer time to working with small children. Are child sexual predators more likely to be men—yes they are. That’s not bigotry, that’s a fact.
As for your comment about old men, young predators grow to be old predators—it makes no difference. I monitor carefully anyone who has close, unsupervised access to my children regardless of age. But for all the reasons above, I am more suspicious of a man with no familial connection to me who wants to care for my children. I have to wonder why he has made that choice. Statisically, he is an anomaly.
For all these reasons, anyone who works with children needs to be very careful about touching children, being alone with children, and especially being physically affectionate with children who are not their own. Hence my position on hugging.
I don’t know how to explain it any more clearly. Again, if you are really interested, do a tiny bit of research. You will see for yourself—I’m not making this stuff up. If you have children, you would be wise to learn a little more about it.
By Nja
October 27, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this
Uhhh, parent2. Maybe most of the sexual predators of children that you see in the media are of the demographics of those you describe. But as a person who has DIRECTLY worked with hundreds of sexually abused children, and unfortunately had to work with the sexual predators I would know that MOST CHILDREN ARE SEXUALLY ABUSED BY A RELATIVE OR A FRIEND OF THE FAMILY. So, using your logic- don’t let your child around anyone.
By Elane
October 30, 2006 08:32 AM | Link to this
Hugs are fine, but they are no substitute for basic respect toward students. I remember one particularly unpleasant male teacher in elementary school, who took personal offense when you didn’t understand what he was teaching. He never hesitated to belittle and degrade a student and encourage the other kids to gang up. Yet, this same jerk was big on hugs when he was feeling benign toward you. My mom remembers him coming up behind me in a store and putting his hands over my eyes as a “surprise.” So, bottom line, if you don’t really like your students, do them a favor and keep your hands off.
By verdi73
October 30, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this
I am a male teacher(at home with pink eye so that is why I am responding during school hours), and I taught elementary school for 9 years before moving on to middle/high school level. I chose elementary because many kids do not have a positive male role model in their lives. I did not choose elementary to molest kids, but to teach children about making goals, succeeding in life, respect for others and their country, take pride in hard work, and respect themselves. I never intiate hugs, however I would never deny a little child a hug if they come running up wanting one, and when they did I never touched them, I kept my hands out to the side. I do this because of being paranoid about some parent wanting to ruin my career. My life is an open book, in fact, I wish there were cameras in all classrooms to help with some of these problems. I detest child molesters, in fact I want even begin to tell you what I think should happen to them, but if some parent wants to ruin my career for something I wouldn’t even think about doing, I hope they have a very good lawyer because I will not go down without a fight.