Get Schooled

By Lisa B.

October 11, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

I don’t respect educators any more or any less because they have or don’t have doctorates. My principal doesn’t have a doctorate and does a wonderful job. My brother-in-law is also a principal and does a wonderful job. I know of others with doctorates who were really in the wrong position, and the doctorate didn’t impact that problem one way or the other. A doctorate doesn’t change one’s ability.

By Thomas

October 11, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

When I first read this article, the thing that IMMEDIATELY came to my mind is this- SOMEBODY DOESN’T LIKE THIS LADY. Trust me and mark my words, this is what this is about.

Who checks the credentials of people working at a school, whether they are the principal or a teacher (even if some of the parents are “educated” and “well-to-do”)?

These sorts of things occur when somebody has an axe to grind. They look for things to use as ammunition aganist their enemies. This “Dr” whatever-her-name-is probably teed off one (or more) of these arrogant, pompous, busybody PTA women (or another parent) who wants to run the school or have their way. Scenarios like this are nothing new. They happen everyday.

By the way— I have known of people who call themselves “doctor” because the have finished all of their course work and not finished their dissertation. Technically they are A.B.’s. But they’ll tell you- “oh, all I have to do is finish my dissertation and I’ll be finished.”

This is why these “advanced” education degrees and titles are overated. Millions of teachers run to these “schools” (some of these places are actual diploma mills) to get these “master’s degrees” and “specialist’s degrees” simply for career advancement and chest pounding. It sounds good for schools to boast of having teachers with “advanced” degrees. The teachers get something to put on their resumes and an extra $4000-6000 a year. Whether or not the teacher learned anything (or the “college” taught anything) that the teacher could actually use in the classroom with REAL children in a REAL setting is irrelevant.

By Ernest

October 11, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

Most will agree, the rise we are seeing in ‘doctorates’ is more to get an increase on the salary schedule. Even on the news clip, the HR person in APS was adamant that this principal was not paid at the doctorate level. Heck, I ‘kiddingly’ call one of the candidates in the upcoming election ‘senator’ in anticipation of him being elected. Maybe this was a case of someone referred to her with that title in advance of her recieving her doctorate, then not correcting them because she liked the way it sounded.

Patti, I got a kick out of your referece to her doctoral work at ‘real’ universities. Were you implying something with that??? :)

By SET

October 11, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

I sort of sighed when I read this. OK here goes.

I am in the business of dealing with criminals and have extensive use of psychologists and psych evaluations. Prior to that I worked in Consumer Credit. I have over 12 years experience with white collar criminals and dealing with those who love them (who are as nutty as the criminals).

Based on my experience it is a major red flag when people lie about their credentials. The above poster seemed to direct her comment on the merits of the credential. That’s not the point. It’s the lying. And believe me, it’s worse when people in or trying to get into positions of authority and fuduciary trust are revealed to be liars especially about this issue.

You only have a short period of time to react when you realize a snake has rattles.

Many people will say that this is no big deal. Maybe they haven’t spent years watching what these personalities do to other people once they have their hands on the money and power. And it’s not that they don’t mean well or love people. They are what they are.

If I were her appointing authority and came on notice that she had lied on her applications about having the degree or that she lied in conversation at any time to the school district or it’s employees or it’s consituients about this - and an adoptive admission of a lie is telling a lie I would fire her for cause.

And I’m not saying that I feel this way about everything people say and do. But I know from painful experience that lying about these credentials is one of the biggest red flags for terminal cancer of the character.

But that’s just my opinion. I run my house and the school board and superintendent run theirs. We don’t have this particular problem in my organization because we place a premium on fidelity. It’s our stock in trade.

That may not be true of the public schools. They have something else for sale.

By Janis Ian

October 11, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

OOOOH, Patti, you are really flirting with controversy by implying something with that comment about “real” universities. But, I’m sure you’re pleased that it titilllated one of your pets. Is there an edge creeping into your blogging persona? Probably not, but, as to the notion of principals with doctorates. Most come from worthless, “unreal” colleges. Can you spell Argosy, for example?

Anyway, most obtain them as a vanity project. I had a Shakespeare professor at UGA who received his doctorate from Harvard, and he refused to be called Dr. Stephens because he thought it crass. Only medical practitioners and scientists, he said, should be called Dr. But, in our world, everyone is someone, and a doctorate from Fort Valley State (I know they don’t give them, I’m just being obnoxious) is equated with one from Yale.

No wonder Georgia’s educational ship is sinking!

By PTAPrez

October 11, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

Thomas - you hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head!!! Someone probably took it upon themselves to “call in a favor” at the school where she supposedly got her doctorate from so someone at the school could pull her record. It takes a person with NO life whatsoever to do that! Now had the Atlanta school system HR folks caught the error, then fine… they’ve done their job, but if a plain ol’ parent was the whistleblower, then Dr. Mrs. Whats-her-face rubbed some hoity-toity, Niles Crane wannabe the wrong way! :-)

By V for Vendetta

October 11, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

Seems like a lot of fireworks over something that really isn’t that big a deal. She should have been a little more careful with how people named her in letters, but other than that…

I agree with Thomas and PTAPrez, this sounds like someone was after her and this was the silver bullet they used to bring her down. Sad really.

By Ernest

October 11, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

SET:

As always, you bring up several good points so I decided to do some research. I checked the APS webpage and it did NOT refer to her as Dr. but Ms. The Morninside webpage does not use a title however it appears the AP has a doctorate. The introductory letter is sprinkled with Dr. Spencer throughout however this statement was interesting, Dr. Spencer engaged in doctoral work in Education Administration at the University of South Carolina, and Education Policy and Management at the University of Oregon, where she is completing a dissertation .

What conclusions can you draw from this? I’m not at the school nor know anyone there. Did she ask those at the school to refer to her as Dr.? Was she referred to as Dr. while working at the central office? IMO, these are keys in determining whether this was an attempt to be deceitful.

By OldSchool

October 11, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this

There are a number of teachers (no administrators) at our school with doctorates but only one insists on everyone using the honorific when addressing her. I do not. I have limited respect for her and her “teaching” and call her by her last name as I do everyone else…including administrators.

I do refer to full professors as Doctor if that is their preference…even though I am older than many I had classes under in grad school.

I received a letter once addressed to “Dr. OldSchool” and for one brief moment I enjoyed my newly conferred title. Then I ripped open the envelope, read the contents, and got over myself.

If I have my Masters, does that mean I can insist on everyone addressing me as “Master OldSchool”?

By Elane

October 11, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

Giving Spencer the benefit of the doubt, let’s assume it happened this way: A staff member wrote the letter, throwing in the incorrect credential. Spencer was not available to approve it; it was printed without being checked. How much paper used? Economy-minded principal and/or staff elected to send the letter out rather than waste all that paper just to do it again, thinking there would be opportunities later on to correct the error without changing the basic message of the original letter.

Couldn’t that just possibly be the way it went down??

By Jeff

October 11, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

My soon-to-be-former pastor (he’s at my church up north, I’m about to join one down here, LOVE him, but the distance is too great!) has a doctoral degree, but it is NOT something he brags about. I was at the church for nearly a YEAR before I even found out he had it.

I’ve also dealt with those that insist on being referred to as “Dr. _”.

Personally, I prefer working with the ones that don’t care if anyone knows they have it. I’ve long held the view that advanced degrees and longevity do NOT necessarily mean better teaching… PASSION does. (And that somehow stumbling into the perfect mix of passion and knowledge makes the BEST teacher.)

My $.02…

By Nel

October 11, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Here’s the thing, in corporate America, you lose your job for mistating your credentials. You are not “Dr.” unless you’ve completed your PhD and it’s a bit of a slap to those who have taken the time to complete theirs. I noticed that he spokesperson started referring to her as Dr. then corrected herself in mid-sentence which gives the impression that this is what she has been known as. I work in recruiting and it is the kiss of death when you suggest that you have a degree that you don’t….it makes you look dishonest. Most likely if she’s been in the system for years, it’s been assumed that she got her Doctorate. She bears all the responsibility thought regardless of whether someone outed her for spite. Rarely do people NOT realize that they are creating the wrong impression. In this day and age, with the scandals that have been publicized regarding CEO’s and college Coaches who don’t have the degrees they allude to, she should have known better. She should have at least insisted on facing the parents herself.

By Assclowniis Maximus

October 11, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

The spin-doctors have arrived.

She is not a liar - someone had an axe to grind.

The 25 year-old dating my 14 year-old daughter should not be arrested! It was I who had a problem with his beard and bottle of Jack Daniels. If I didn’t have this axe to grind I would have never demanded to see his license!

God, what have I done to him!

By ok

October 11, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

I was a parent in the school. Yes, there were several who had an axe to grind. People do not welcome change very well. I volunteered there 2 times and was absolutely shocked at the amount of access the parents had to personal information. Often they took it upon themselves to go into the nurse’s office (the nurse was unaware they were doing this) and look at the clinic cards (which is a violation of HIPA). They would stand around outside the principal’s office and listen to conversations that went on inside of there and share their version of it. There were entirely too many issues dealing with confidentiality these parents were privy to that I saw and should have actually reported to some authority figure. Those are only two examples of why I only volunteered there 2 times. I was shocked!!!! It is my understanding that this new principal was not allowing this free access to private records and not allowing the office to be a meeting/congregation area so confidential information did not “leak” out of there. Believe me when I say that this did not sit well with these parents. I live in this community and can tell you this has been the buzz for quite some time!! Yes, it is unethical to lie on your resume, but it is just as unethical to eavesdrop and read personal files, cards, etc. A classic case of the pot and the kettle!!!

By MorningsideParent

October 11, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

Those of you defending Ms. Spencer should be ashamed of yourselves for endorsing her fraudulent behavior. Here is direct quote from her resume which she submitted to Atlanta Public School administrators to obtain her position (an ED.D is a doctoral degree in education): 1995-2000 University of South Carolina Columbia, SC • ED.D in curriculum program • Educational Administration, May 1998, completed. This is unquestionably fraud and completely unacceptable. Morningside Elementary is a great school primarily because of the PTA and parental involvement. Those parents rightfully demand integrity from teachers or principals who lack integrity. Would you want Ms. Spencer telling your child (explicitly or by example) that it’s OK to lie to get ahead in life?

By SET

October 11, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

Ernest has a point - it is common for other people to make assumptions and also people get junk mail addressing them as “Your Majesty”.

The question is did the subject of all this claim to have the degree by saying so on a job application - or by saying so verbally or in writing (herself) - or by standing pat and allowing the title to be publicly used while “adopting” the use.

As to the last part (adoption) if the school’s website clearly states the true status of this principal, this would be a good start in defending her position. I certainly have no knowledge of this principal myself and hope that the whole thing is a simple misunderstanding.

My earlier post is a “position paper”. The facts of this case would have to be determined and we certaintly can’t do that on a blog. I hope the whole thing is a big to do about nothing. Despite my rhetoric I take no pleasure in giving people a hard time. Really.

By Dragonlady

October 11, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

This sounds like a sad story to me from several aspects (particularly the parents who eavesdropped and went through files in the health clinic—they could be sued, and if they spread something about my child, they would be hearing from my lawyer), but I can top it. In the small community where I live, we have a board member who was given an honorary doctorate and who insists—you guessed it—as being addressed “Dr. So and So.”

By MorningsideParent

October 11, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

SET and Ernest: Did it occur to you that the website you look at today likely has been changed recently, i.e., AFTER Ms. Spencer’s fraud came to the attention of APS? What the website looks like today is hardly evidence of anything.

By catlady

October 11, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

I expect to be called Dr.—I earned it from a respected university—but you don’t have to kiss my ring or bow!

Those who missrepresent should be fired.

By Assclowniis Maximus

October 11, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

Mark Foley is also a victim of overzealous types with too much time on their hands.

The Democrats are just using this so-called “scandal” to have a republican removed from congress.

Whether Foley did or didn’t try to molest young boys is inconsequential. You must consider the source.

Mark Foley is the real victim - of Dems with an axe to grind!

By thomas

October 11, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

The comment made by the Morningside parent struck home. Throughout my career I have worked in middle class schools. In these schools they had “parent volunteers”, “room moms”, etc. I have learned that sometimes the intrusiveness (although most of the time, parents mean no harm)can lead to security issues.

I know from personal experience where parents had access to the names and home telephone numbers of other students in their child’s class. They had access to other student’s grades and work. AND HEAVEN FORBID IF YOU HAD “PARENT VOLUNTEERS” WORKING IN THE OFFICE.

The same thing happened at Morningside. My advice to school personel (especially those calling themselves working at a “good school”) is to be careful. Yes, parent volunteers are good at times. BUT ANYONE THAT YOU ALLOW IN YOUR SCHOOL IS A POTENTIAL SECURITY RISK. Information in the wrong hands can kill.

By Jim in Marietta

October 11, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

The woman is a liar. She knew people viewed her as having a PhD and didn’t correct them. Much to her credit she did the right thing by resigning. An industry that does everything it can to further the fallacy of “better education through accreditation” darn well better have its own personnel’s credentials in order before pushing the accreditation issue.

By ExMESParent

October 11, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

My children attended MES and I also volunteered within the school. What OK said earlier is quite true. There were always parents, usually mothers with nothing else to do during the day, hanging out trying to hear what they could regarding students and their families. Then, they would carry that information around the Highlands and share it with other parents who took it to be truth whether it really was or wasn’t.
The biggest wench I have ever met was the PTA president at that time and talk about nosey and busy body. If you look up those two words in the dictionary her picture is right there. I loved MES but there was a lot to be desired where the parents are concerned. Most were great but there were quite a few who felt they were holier-than-thou because of their degrees; and if they didn’t have a degree they felt holier-than-thou because their husband made oodles of money and the wife was very well-kept. I am sure this will be the buzz of MES for quite some time..until they find another axe to grind.

By Ernest

October 11, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

MorningsideParent, I don’t have a dog in this fight and was merely curious about the introductory letter. Remember, it said she was completing a dissertation and never said that she had a doctorate. I find that odd and inconflict with the many references to Dr. throughout that letter.

If APS did change their website today, wouldn’t it have made sense to REMOVE her name as principal. It’s inarguable that APS HR indicated she was not paid at the doctorate pay scale. That ‘suggests’ she did not provide documentation to be paid at that level.

BTW, how did you address her? Did she request to be called Dr.? If so, she was knowingly misleading people and rightly resigned. If you called her Dr., did she ever correct you? Like I said, this was a peculiar story that got more interesting as you researched it.

By SNY

October 11, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

Morningside Parent,

No, you should be ashamed of yourself!! If parents were standing around eavesdropping or listening when they shouldn’t have, then they are dead wrong. You were probably one of them. If that woman did something to you that you didn’t agree with then you should have been adult enough to go and talk to her. Don’t ruin this woman’s life because you don’t have one of your own. It is parents like you (and I used to be one) that make these people bitter and unapproachable. Tell me this, was she a good principal? I mean, other than this, did you not like her because of the changes she was making or did she do something to your little precious that you didn’t care for?

Read the post by ok, right before yours. Can you tell me that that post is incorrect? What were your experiences at the school? Does it really matter if she is a Dr. or not? If she isn’t, I agree that she shouldn’t be addressed as one. But in the scheme of things, is it that important. Especially if she is working on her dissertation. Do you have any idea how long it takes and how hard it is to finish a dissertation? Probably not, you are too busy finding problems and flaws with other people.

By SET

October 11, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

The worst time to fake credentials is when surrounded by the real thing.

I wonder where this woman will turn up next?

In this Brave New World credentials are more important than they might have been 50 years ago. And now they are far more expensive to obtain. It’s one of the ways we in the USA are walling ourselves off and reducing common ground for all citizens.

People become enraged at the thought of anyone faking one or not earning one. It’s one of the underlying reasons for the war on affirmative action.

I still remember the Wizard of Oz handing out degrees at the end of the movie…

Maybe the credentials are so important because the lowest common denominator of US resident has been allowed to fall into the gutter. And that’s the “HSD” - High School Diploma.

By Hiding

October 11, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

So just exactly how often do volunteer’s come with other agendas that are not worth the value of the “help” that they are offering?

And how often are the tasks assigned to volunteers completely meaningless to the bottom line of educating children and instead calculated to stroke and contain the “helper”?

By MorningsideParent

October 11, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

SNY: 1. I neither addressed nor condoned eavesdropping. That whole issue is irrelevant to Ms. Spencer’s fraud. 2. My disgust with her fraud has absolutely nothing to do with any other actions she may have taken. Even if she is an otherwise wonderful person, her conduct warrants termination. She has no one to blame but herself. 3. I actually do not care whether she or any other principal has a doctorate degree. I only care that she’s dishonest about it. That you care not a whit about her honesty speaks volumes about your character as well. 4. I’m quite aware of the time and effort required to obtain an advanced degree from an accredited university. I applaud her efforts, but close is no cigar.

By MMM

October 11, 2006 06:24 PM | Link to this

I would love to know to what extent the resignation was coerced and who put how much pressure on her. The PTA sounds from this article like they were out for blood.

This is the kind of thing that begs for a more in depth review. I agree with SET that the results of lying should be high—-but if “profreading” a letter and not striping the title when someone else wrote it seems to me to be very different than misrepresenting it on your job application. If she clearly wasn’t being paid for the title then we are talking about a lapse in attention or judgement rather than outright fraud. This still MIGHT be something she should resign or be fired for,but it sure sounds like the PTA was gunning for her—-and I would hate to think that someone’s career was crushed by an out of control PTA.

What if the person who drafted the letter honestly thought she had the Dr. because of prior casual conversation about the discertation and the letter was given to her after that person left for the day (on the day it really needed to be mailed.) She might have looked, noticed, but considered it trivial compared with not getting the letter out or having to retype it herself.

Of it could be a sense of insecurity making her give into the temptation to play the game that appears so important at this school.

If this was an outright serious attempt to claim the Dr. and all it’s perks she should be fired for stupidity in addition to lieing because she was clearly not consistant even within the letter that caused all the controversy.

The bottom line is that we don’t know—only she does. And there is a PTA that clearly wanted her gone and suceeded in that aim.

By decaturparent

October 11, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this

MorningsideParent

Whew… Don’t you think your tone is a bit much?

She obviously must have done something else to tick you off. If you really liked her and thought she was doing a great job… and she was cowtowing to parents enough, there wouldn’t be so much indignation in your post.

So do tell… what happened BEFORE the PhD thing? Which parent did she tick off?

I don’t condone dishonesty… she should be terminated as should any other employee that fakes their credentials… but the hate and indignation in your email is pretty tough. Clearly.. something else was going on.

By Taxpayer

October 12, 2006 08:12 AM | Link to this

After ten years in the public school system, I’ve come to believe that PTA stands for “Pushing, Tampering, Aggravating.” Thomas, PTAPrez, and decaturparent all raise a valid question: which parent did the Morningside principal p#$$ off?

Yes, it was CLEARLY wrong for Ms. Spencer to claim a degree she had not completed, if that is what she did. But how did all this come to light? Who did the digging to reveal this secret, and why?

The worst behavior I have ever seen at a public school came not from the kids, but from mean, busybody control freaks who had nothing to do between tennis matches and manicures. These witches (yes, they were all female) came flying up to the school to bicker among themselves, spread gossip, and waste the principal’s and teacher’s time with interior decorating and quaint fundraising ideas, like a poker night (with cocktails) AT THE SCHOOL! (The fundraiser did get held off-site, but then the school message board thanked the liquor store for donating booze. Brilliant.) And yes, all this was done in the name of the PTA.

Last year, there was so much infighting among “dedicated” parents that a special election had to be held for PTA officers at our school. There were tears shed, nasty comments hurled, and some of the most childish behavior I have ever seen. With so many kids in desperate need of help with reading and math, with older school buildings in need of repair and painting, with teachers in need of help with copying and preparing classroom materials, and with so many kids in need of mentors, you would think all these PTA folks could find something more productive to do than to hang around gossiping, prying into private files, and just generally making a nuisance of themselves.

By KA

October 12, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this

PhD or EdD, whatever the title, in the end the students are the ones who lose here. Power, prestige, and pompous pettiness seem to have been the driving forces in this farce. No wonder the kids today are so self absorbed and clueless. The nut doesn’t fall far from the tree.

By jim d

October 12, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this

Hold on folks, did she claim a doctorate? No evidence exists to document that claim.

Did she mislead by not correcting a letter she proofread that referred to her as holding a doctorate? Apparently so.

Was anyone harmed by her omission? Rather doubtful.

Did she do the right thing by resigning? Yes.

I don’t see any evidence that she lied to her employer when being hired to the position.

So what’s the big deal? She’s history —- and if she holds a teaching certificate I suspect ethics charges could be leveled and she risks losing that as well.

But does she deserve being crucified in the press? Well—-You decide.

By EW

October 12, 2006 09:13 AM | Link to this

I don’t condone her lying or not correcting the letters or people addressing her as doctor… I must say that the same person or persons that had the time, ability, and opportunity to “investigate” in her background, could have simply taken their findings to her and came to a resolution. BUT as most of these parents do, they went for blood because they in was best served for their own self interest. NOW, the kids suffer because they have to get adjust to a new transition of principals, and the grass is not always greener… that’s for sure, and whoever they have on their “agenda” to get the principalship — I hope they don’t get their wish, I hope the children gets someone who can make them happy and successful.

Remember we all make stupid mistakes, principals, teachers, parents, and students.. Its shows alot about your character on how your treat and react to the mistakes and correct them.

By MA

October 12, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this

There are two types of degrees: REAL degrees from real schools like Ga.State, UGA, etc. where teachers WENT to the campus and took classes. Then there are the DIPLOMA MILL degrees where you can pay for courses that you do online. No one ever fails an online course, of course! I understand that the University of New Orleans is still up and running and awarding doctorates — only it has moved to New Mexico! To all the REAL Masters, Specialists, and Doctors — congratulations on your education!

By jim d

October 12, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

EW,

I’m going to have to go back and re-read the article. I don’t recall anywhere it stated she was being addressed by parents and staff as Dr and not correcting people. You may be making an assumption —and then I could be wrong.

By parentof2

October 12, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

I am a PTO president. I spend an incredible amount of time trying to convince parents to volunteer and support our school. (And my agenda is not hidden—its out there for anyone to see—my children’s education is my priority and my responsibility; so that is where I put my time.)

The most common excuse I hear for nonsupport is that the teachers and staff don’t want the parents in the school. I’ve never believed that was true till today reading these posts.

Is this really how teachers feel about parents who volunteer: “pushing, tampering, aggravating?” Its heartbreaking to read and I hope its not true.

And back to the topic—its simply not fair to blame the parents in this instance—even if they did want her fired. This woman lied about her credentials. That is absolutely cause for termination in any industry. She had no choice but to resign and the person who hired her without checking her credentials should resign as well.

By Taxpayer

October 12, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this

Parentof2, I posted the “pushing,tampering, aggravating” message, and I am a parent, not a public school teacher. I can’t speak for all the teachers at my kid’s schools, but I do know that at least two faculty members from one of her schools quit because they got tired of parents constantly hovering and interfering in their classrooms.

I’m sure that teachers and parents alike wish that all volunteers had your great attitude and agenda. Unfortunately, that is not always the case. Parents can be the greatest asset to a school or the biggest liability.

By jim d

October 12, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this

parentof2,

Excuse me. Did I miss something? “the person who hired her without checking her credentials should resign as well.”

Where’d that come from? Do you have knowledge other than what was reported? Because I sure didn’t see where that happened.

By EW

October 12, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

Jim D, I didn’t purposely mean to make that assumption, this was something I heard on the news — I’m sure you will pull the transcripts… If that’s what you got out of my post, you missed my point.

MA, I know masters, and specialists, and doctors from your real universities who don’t have a clue… It depends on the person and their own capabilities…

By jim d

October 12, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this

EW,

After further review my statements stand.

She was accused of not correcting people that addressed her Dr. the key word here is accused.

Personally I respect her decision to resign for failing to make the corrections on the introductry letter. This to me is a sign of strength of character in this lady. School administrators are much like Eagle Scouts in that they are “marked”, someone is always waiting for them to stumble so they can point an accusing finger.

John 7:24 John 8:7

By KA

October 12, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

I am a former PTA pres. and IMHO the Principal is the key person to create a harmonious and productive working environment between teachers and volunteers. The principal must establish the ground rules for parents coming into the school, and the PTA/PTO pres and officers must train their volunteers in school rules and etiquette. It is a workplace after all, and visitors need to respect the teachers professional turf.

By EW

October 12, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

Parentof2,

I’m a teacher, parent, and vice president of my daughters PTA. SO; I see it from all angles. I want parents to be involved — however, we must be careful to be sensitive to the confidential information of the students… For example, at my former middle school they allowed parents to be substitute teachers… to me, this is a BIG NO-NO. Parents then have the access to student’s grades and information and they start talking… It is a pure shame how some parents conduct themselves…

By anotherMESparent

October 12, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

Dear Educators, You are like a man who wants to marry a beautiful and modest wife. Those two characteristics are lovely, but they usually don’t coexist in the same person. If you want engaged, responsive parents who send you respectful, well-prepared students who attend class regularly, a full calendar when you have parent-teacher conferences, and standing room only crowds for “Back to School Night”, then you will probably have to suffer “pushing, tampering, aggravating” busybodies and “out of control” PTAs. Pick your poison.

By Taxpayer

October 12, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

AnotherMESParent, your analogy really doesn’t hold up. And why, pray tell, can’t parents volunteer WITHOUT the pushing, tampering, and aggravating? Why can’t the parents act like responsible, considerate adults? Parents should help solve problems, not create them. Again, I am a parent and a volunteer.

But please, don’t take this comment as condoning anyone misrepresenting credentials. I just think that there is plenty of negativity in this situation to go around.

By teach overseas

October 12, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

Actually anotherMESparent. In my years of teaching- I have found that the apple rarely falls far from that tree.

Respectful, well-prepared students most frequently come from respectful, well prepared parents.

Pushy, tampering “helicopter parents” produce whiny, over-scheduled kids who can’t solve any problem on their own as their parents are WAY to involved and fight every little skirmish for them.

By KA

October 12, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

Taxpayer, I agree with you. The busybody parents at MES need to grow up and mind their manners. If I had a bunch of gossipy, pushy volunteers come into my office to help out, and they started prying into private areas, and tried to tell me how to do my job, then I’d have them out the door in a flash. No other profession would allow this meddlesome behavior, so why do these parents feel so entitled?

By MMM

October 12, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

Wow. A lot of good comments. Our PTA is non existant—but we have all kinds of leaky personal info and parents as substitute teachers… Lice, chicken pox, parents getting food from the Foodbank to deliver to other parents—-lots of teachers and staff that have children in the school.

Several whiners, winers, divorses, etc. Kind of like an old fashoned small town. Of course the middle word in the school’s name and mission is “community”. Do the kids benefit from having others looking out for them—-sometimes? The flip side of privacy is alienation.

Did people know that this was what they would get when they choose our school? Some are hoping that it is.

By anotherMESparent

October 12, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

Taxpayer, I’m not talking about “should”, I’m talking about “is”. If the parents are not engaged in a school, no one will be hovering in the office, tampering, and checking credentials. The professional educators at such a school will have a pretty free hand to run things as they see fit, but they won’t get a lot of help from the parents. They’ll likely complain about the lack of support.

teach overseas, you are correct - the apple usually doesn’t fall far from the tree. The topic isn’t helicopter parents, it’s Ms. Spencer’s allegedly lying on her resume. If the school system declines to check this out, why can’t the parents?

KA, to answer your question, some of the “busybody parents at MES” think that Ms. Spencer was in charge of teaching their children at their school - what should they think?

By parentof2

October 12, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

I’ve seen parents do some pretty silly and awful things at PTO events and I’ve seen teachers and administrators do some pretty silly and awful things at school. Parents are often teachers and teachers are often parents. Its all the same people, same kids, same schools.

Its wrong to label any of the participants with these ugly names (and I don’t mean just here but also in our hearts). Its sad when parents and teachers line up on opposite sides like soldiers in a battle. How can any good come of this?

I’ve seen really sweet respectful parents turn into monster parents when they encounter a bad teacher or a teacher they perceive to be bad and I’ve seen wonderful teachers turn into absolute nightmare teachers when they think a parent is out to get them. Sometimes its just a big misunderstanding and then its just worst when we hold these labels in our hearts.

In my experience, its pretty common for everyone to behave outside their normal character when emotions run high and there is much at stake (and that is always the case when our children and jobs are at issue).

In 20 years of parenting, I’ve never heard a substitute teacher gossip out of school about a child. I am sure it must happen, but I’m not sure its common.

I have heard parents gossip a lot though and not just PTO parents. I’ve also heard teachers gossip a lot. Most people probably have some guilt to share there.

By ok

October 12, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

Again, as a former parent and current resident of the area, I do not respect the untruths on the resume. Neither, do I respect the entitlement some parents feel when they have children at a school. These same parents would be outraged if their children’s information was being perused at every given chance. If we want the educators and administration to be upstanding, then we should do the same. Perhaps, I should now share the names of the parents who did choose to look at health records with the parents of the students whose records were investigated . Maybe some very public lawsuits would come about! Some of them would be outraged and, guess what? They also hold advanced degrees or have jobs that are in the spotlight. I wonder how they would feel knowing their children were being whispered about among the volunteers? This matter is turning into an embarrassing event to this community and the school. To get nominated by the Governor for an award and an ousted principal all in one week. Parents should have been contacting the media about the award, instead the negative was the chosen spotlight!! Yes, their children were in their school, their children also go to their doctor. Do they look at records at the doctor’s office? Do they listen outside of patient’s doors and go to the community with the heard information? A school is a business that should be treated with the same dignity that any other professional venue would. I’m surprised that anotherMESparent directed her comments to “Educators.” Are you stating that the people that do not agree with your stand have to be educators? I, for one, am not an educator and I do not agree with the way in which this was handled. The reputation of that school will forever be tarnished! This could have been handled in a more private setting!

By EW

October 12, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Parentof2 and OK — very well spoken…

By hs sped

October 12, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

She’s a liar. She lied (therefore, etc., etc.), but she’s not the first to lie, is she? Wasn’t there a superintendent that lied about a degree as well? I can’t remember anything, anymore.

By SNY

October 12, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

hs sped,

She did not lie on her application and she didn’t write the letter that went out to the parents. How is she a liar. Maybe by default or maybe even by not thinking it was a big deal. I know that once I put my resume out there, I didn’t have my degree yet. I was 1 month away from graduating. It was no big deal. If I had been a semester away, that would have been different. But every person that I interviewed with understood that it was on my resume a month early. Non of them had a problem with it. I actually received 4 job offers with that resume.

The person who typed up that letter made a mistake, so what. Are these parents suggesting that they have never made a mistake in their professional careers. And if they had, would they want the world to know? Parents can be such hypocrites when it suits them. These parents need to be so ASHAMED of themselves. They also need to remember that what goes around comes around and they need to be careful. God doesn’t like ugly and what these people did to this woman is really ugly.

By anotherMESparent

October 12, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

ok,

When I read the “who are these parents to …” comments, I made an assumption about the source. Not necessarily a good practice, but in this forum I have LOTS of company. Disagreeing with me absolutely does not mean you have to be an educator.

My original point, whose perception is colored by a fascinating variety of experiences, is that in this matter (as well as in pretty much all of life) you take the good with the bad.

By parentof2

October 12, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

Ok: I don’t know the facts in your school, but I will say that I was appalled when I first came to my kids’ middle school. I saw a parent looking up kids’ names in the school computer one day for some PTO purpose—she just nudged the secretary out of the way!—and of course everything there is to know about that kid was right in front of her eyes. I just couldn’t believe it. I was not Pres at that time or I would have said something.

Based on that incident and others, at one of my first PTO meetings, I gave my volunteers an uncomfortable little speech about our responsibility to not abuse the privilege we have of being in the school office and privy to things we would otherwise not hear. I hated to do it, and I don’t think it was well taken by some. Others nodded their heads in agreement.

I would like to see my children’s school have a separate room for PTO parents with our own copy machine (you wouldn’t believe what I hear standing in the teachers’copy room making copies). But we don’t have space for our students, much less a PTO room.

Its hard for the school to give PTO the access we need to do our jobs without giving us the opportunity to abuse it. I agree that change in that regard has to come from the top—admin and PTO officers.

I have seen parents get two Administrators fired in other separate school districts. In one case, I thought it was an unfortunate outcome of mob rule. In the other, I was grateful for the power that a concerned, involved group can have when they need to. And I bet that in both cases there were parents who disagreed with me entirely.

By parentof2

October 12, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

Thanks EW.

And to anotherMESparent: Absolutely perfect summary. I say that to myself every day (sometimes a little desperately! lol!).

By Jeff

October 12, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

anotherMESparent:

I have met SEVERAL STUNNING women that are both beautiful AND modest. It DOES happen - quite frequently actually. It all depends on the circles you run in which leads me to question yours….

By jim d

October 12, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

You got any room left in that circle? lol

By ok

October 12, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Yes, that is true. There is usually a bad that comes with the good! Has anyone considered the teachers at that school in all of this? Those people are probably suffering from a tremendous amount of undue stress! Imagine having to teach and field questions! Imagine the invasion they may have felt when the media showed up at their place of employment during the school day. And, yes, that happened! My understanding is that a media representative waited outside of the principal’s door attempting to get an interview. He was very polite, but, nontheless, he was there!

Those people employed there are probably wondering when the next shoe will drop! Who will be the next target of the Oh-so-Powerful parent group? I definitely wouldn’t want to work in an environment that fosters such animosity and rightousness! The lady is no longer principal, and I will not be the judge and jury on that one.What we need to ponder now is who in their right mind will ever come to that school to take over the reigns? This group is forcing that school to develop a reputation that will be very hard to overcome!

Too bad Georgia is a right to work state. These same “teachers who will run the school with a free hand” should, perhaps, walk out and let your group do it since your tone leads one to think that you don’t hold them in very high regards! Hopefully, that is not the case. I would venture to say that the employees in that school feel THEY should walk on egg shells. Who knows who will be the next boss they will have? It appears they already have about 500 or more!

By Jeff

October 12, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

Ya know, I’m NOT AT ALL a fan of the teachers’ unions - not of unions in general, BUT it WOULD be intersting if teachers had the ability to actually strike…. maybe we would see someone take discipline seriously at home!! (Had a REALLY rough day!!!!)

By jim d

October 12, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

I hope you’ve eaten today.

Anyway, just because teachers don’t think they can strike doesn’t mean a lot of them couldn’t catch a virus, if you get my drift.

By KA

October 12, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this

AnotherMESparent, There are many ways to handle situations, and it looks like this one was was handled in a very public and ugly way. Two words come to mind; compassion and discretion. why not take the high road? When you have a choice between being right and being kind, choose kindness. Kumbaya y’all

By HB

October 12, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this

Personally, I have no more and no less respect for a person with a PhD — their overall job performance and what kind of person they are matters more to me. I would, however, have far less respect for someone who calls him/herself “Dr.” but does not have a degree. That’s quite simply misrepresentation. I’ve known many graduate students in doctoral programs; NONE of them would use the title and every one of them would correct someone who called them “Dr.” by mistake (I’ve heard them do it many times). I would seriously question the character of anyone who repeatedly used the title without earning the degree. That’s not a simple mistake (12 letters?!). That’s pretending to have earned something she has not. A terrible example for the students …

By anotherMESparent

October 12, 2006 05:58 PM | Link to this

Jeff, It’s an epigram, dude. You win the prize for quickest turn to an ad hominum attack. fyi - for my kids, bad marks mean less TV and more studying; they also know that if I get a negative email/note from one of their teachers, the consequences they reap at school are the LEAST of their problems.

ok, I checked my previous posts 1) I don’t have a group 2) I made no mention about low regard or high regard for teachers - you must have inferred something from my tone of voice.

Seriously, it is interesting how a blog on “Is your principal a doctor? Do you respect him or her more because of the doctorate? There have been several scandals involving fake doctorates of education … Does this degree have any credibility anymore? Should the Atlanta school system have fired the principal when parents brought their findings about her lack of doctoral status to them? ” has been bodily spun into a diatribe on meddling parents.

By observer

October 12, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this

2 words: Lynch Mob Nice work Tom. That, or the collective PTA, at home Mom, parent butt was not sufficiently kissed. I thought the purpose was to support the kids and their teachers. MES is not a private school. Parents should find better things to do with their time that actually affect improvement. Your children will be the ones that are affected. Everyone at that school has to start again at ground zero…Thankfully, the staff there is strong, but isn’t this suppose to be about the children?

By Jim in Marietta

October 13, 2006 08:02 AM | Link to this

You nailed it HB!

By Lee

October 13, 2006 08:40 AM | Link to this

I’ve observed that those in the education field have an almost pathological obsession with advanced degrees. Even those with Doctorate degrees, there is only a limited set of circumstances where I feel it is appropriate to introduce yourself as “Dr. xxxx.” As far as that goes, even if you’re a medical doctor, if you are introducing yourself to me in a social setting, I really don’t care about the titles.

Bottom line, this principal tried to pass herself off as something she was not, and rightfully got called on it.

By Jeff

October 13, 2006 08:54 AM | Link to this

anotherMESparent:

How did you think I was addressing you? I was referring to the post just before mine….

By ok

October 13, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this

anotherMESparent,

My post read since your tone leads one to think When you addressed one of your posts as Dear Educators would also lead one to conclude that your views of educators are not high, since you automatically assumed that anyone that voiced concern about the lack of professional courtesy at the school was an educator. You also spoke for all of the parents when you addressed KA in one of your posts, which made me conclude that there was a group. Again, this is a matter that could have been handled privately. Now, the PTA should concentrate on making sure confidentiality isn’t breached by the volunteers in that school since it has been brought to light by past parents of the school. That would be interesting to see!!

By Leia

October 13, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

Lee - if I happen to introduce myself as Dr. Leia, and you get offended, that just shows your own insecurities! Usually, depending upon the particular circumstance, I will say Mrs. Leia or just Leia, but, it’s my prerogative to use my Dr. title if I want to. I had it before I got into education and I worked very hard to achieve it. If that annoys you - find a hobby!

By Thomas

October 13, 2006 09:31 AM | Link to this

For this issue with “involved” parents, in the end, I think it is best if they be involved at home. They really have little place at school. If you want to be involved, make sure your kid studies, check their homework, provide reinforcement at home. Teach them that you have a responsiblity to respect the teacher, other students, do your work, and not make excuses. That usually does it.

We really don’t need you in the classroom. You are not a trained professional and educator. We have secretaries to do clerical work. Teachers should make their own copies. Every parent that has tried to do my (and other teachers’ jobs) found out how hard (and how much training and experience) it really is. Most of the smart volunteers (WHO WERE NOT PARENTS OF ANY STUDENTS- BY THE WAY), were happy just to stick with reading with a student once a week.

On one hand the schools want outside people in here to do some of their work for them. But it comes at a price. I should not have to MAKE UP WORK FOR SOME PARENT TO DO. I can get a student to cut out red hearts during free time. I can get a student to staple papers after school. I don’t need a spy up at the school, snooping around in the classroom, media center, and office under the guise of helping out. The librarian can stack books, the secretary can answer the phone, and I can grade my students papers.

With the exception of that one field trip the entire grade level goes on, most of a parents work is at home.

By KA

October 13, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this

anotherMESparent, I don’t condone misrepresentation of credentials. My comments in this blog are responses to the news articles, where it appears that parents discovered the misrepresentation, parents who wrote to the principal, and parents who united in apparent witchhunt fashion, as a PTA meeting was planned for the principal to explain herself. So it is no wonder that most of bloggers think that it was the parents who blew this up into a public scandal when it could have been handled more discreetly. When I was PTA Pres I had plenty of know-it-all busy body parents call me with gossip, trying to get me to go public and make their point, which I declined to do. Reading the comments here from others at your school, it appears that the *parents were like circling sharks, just waiting for the kill. As Dr. Phil would say, what part of that don’t you understand?

By anotherMESparent

October 13, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

Jeff - one of your previous posts (see above)

“anotherMESparent:

I have met SEVERAL STUNNING women that are both beautiful AND modest. It DOES happen - quite frequently actually. It all depends on the circles you run in which leads me to question yours….” Ad hominum means “to the man”. When you disagree with someone, but are unable to address their argument, attack them personally. It’s a substitute for logical discourse.

ok, ” Parental involvement is good. ” I agree in advance that for the above statement, or any others I have written, you are able to correctly infer what I REALLY meant and are wholly and completely correct in addressing that rather than what I actually wrote.

The nail that stands up will be beaten down. Y’all have fun.

By jim d

October 13, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this

Thomas,

” I don’t need a spy up at the school, snooping around in the classroom”?

Now you cause me wonder. What’s going on in your classroom?

It’s really funny. Open meetings laws require meetings to be open to the public, yet some teachers apparently feel they are above reproach. Why is that? Y’all (well most of you) are human at last recollection. So why the need for secrecy?

Do you not feel any accountability to parents that have entrusted you with their most valuable asset?

I’m really not trying to be a smart A here, I’m really curious as to where you were coming from with that statement.

By KA

October 13, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

anotherMESparent, And another thing, I don’t know how long you have been reading this blog, or if you have ever posted, but you are blogging with a group of well educated people here. So be aware that we understand what you are saying whether it is stated, implied or just BSing.

By SET

October 13, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

Interesting to follow the thought process of people who believe use of false titles is merely a personal choice or not nice.

You see, it’s not just the behavior of this subject here that’s interesting but the value system exposed by those here discussing it.

People who walk through life refusing to judge or discriminate in their dealings with people are usually known as “victims”.

I deal with them all the time. There is a reason why they are victims and normal people are not. Even more amusing when born victims try to run a business or land in a position of responsibility - especially in a non-profit. They take an organization and it’s employees down with them.

We interact with other people in a set way and follow certain rules and customs because of survival. People who refuse to learn the rules or follow them - or fail to understand why the rules exist - quickly fall prey to con artists, thieves, cheating and abusive spouses, and all manner of psychopaths. In modern times the public schools of all institutions are on the forefront of teaching that anything goes and people must “tolerate” whatever behavior others display especially if the behavior comes from a politically favored segment of human.

In other terms, it’s normally the children of the indiscriminate that get molested (and have poor mortality rates).

In this Brave New World smart money has no intention of being victimized and will take any measures required to protect itself. The cattle can make contracts with meat packers.

One more reason to avoid urban public schools and the people who went there.

By undercover

October 13, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

Ok— here goes. My children attend diverse schools where all children outscore (normally by a lot) their peers on state and national standardized testing. This includes the students who don’t speak english, are dirt poor, and are in special education.

The reason, those pushy, PITA parents who raise the bar at the school don’t just do it for their own child, but for the whole school.

Bad teachers and bad administrators don’t survive long in environments full of pushy parents. They either meet expectations or they are gone.

I suspect that the MES parents didn’t like this woman and were looking for a way to get rid of her — which certainly validates my point. But, while they may not have had cause in this instance, I know of few teachers who are horrible remaining in the state’s top schools.

This is not to say, that there isn’t disagreement. I may like a different kind of teacher than you do… But the really bad ones, they don’t last long.

By KA

October 13, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

SET, I reread the comments, and frankly I don’t see what blog comment(s) constitute what you said are “people who believe use of false titles is merely a personal choice or not nice.” I don’t think any of us excused this principal’s use of a false title. Most of the discussion has targeted HOW and WHY the MES parents created such a PUBLIC spectacle. I think it could have and should have been handled in a more discrete manner. Kumbaya Y’all!

By Lee

October 13, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

Leia, I’ve got plenty of hobbies. It’s just that the more education I received, the less impressed I became by titles and letters after the name.

30 years ago, very few people had Masters degrees. Now, probably 75% of the people in my office are MBA’s.

I’ve got my MBA and CPA and a couple other certifications. It’s no big deal to me. It just means that I took a certain course of study and was able to write a few papers and pass a few tests.

Titles and certifications may imply a certain level of competency, but it’s no guarantee. Maybe I have this attitude because most of the people I’ve met who refer to themselves by title when they are in a setting that does not require them to do so were pompous jacka$$es.

By jim d

October 13, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Set,

More interesting is watching the thought process of people who keep insisting this lady lied on her job application. I’ve heard no evidence of that being the case. Indeed she lied but her lie was one of omission, and she assumed responsibility for that omission. Is omisson a crime in this case? I don’t think so, but I will concede it was very unethical.

As far as I’m concerned—that’s the end of the story.

By SNY

October 13, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this

ok guys, I just read both the stories over again about this woman and I still do not understand what is the problem? Her resume did not state that she had the Doctoral degree. It stated that she had taken some course credits toward the degree. The story also stated that she did not write the letter over the summer and only PARENTS say that she reviewed it before it went out. What if those are the parents with an ax to grind and this woman really did not see the letter? As for someone calling her “Dr.” and her not correcting them, I know of alot of rich, overly pampered people who hate to be corrected no matter what the subject matter. I just think that she should have had to apologize to the parents for the misunderstanding and everyone should have moved on. People can be so petty at times. I would never want my children in school with these crazy a$$ people.

By SET

October 13, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

SNY: I don’t doubt your point. Perhaps the woman in question should have stood her ground and not run away from the conflict by resigning.

Another example of life in public service (police officer, teacher, school bus driver…) and how tough things can get.

Maybe the self employed are happier.

By Taxpayer

October 13, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

SNY, I know you were trying to be sensitive and considerate by using “a$$” but those dollar signs might actually be appropriate in relation to this topic. Think about it.

And KA, would you please stop with the “kumbaya” already? Do you really want us to “come by”? I don’t think so.

By anotherMESparent

October 13, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

KA, Truly, you have a dizzying intellect. You see clearly through all my half-spoken thoughts and innuendoes. Matched against a mind like yours, I have no choice but to retire from the field.

By KA

October 13, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

anotherMESparent, I take it from your sarcasm that you were offended by my comment. No offense intended, just trying to clue you into your audience here. Kumbaya Y’all.

By KA

October 13, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer, Just a little tongue in cheek humor with the kumbaya, and a counterpoint to SET’s Brave New World. I’ll stop if it irritates you. Have a great fall weekend, it’s gorgeous out there!

By hs sped

October 13, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

Who cares about her application? She let people refer to her as a doctor, when she is, in fact, not a doctor. I think that condoning the fact that people believe you to be something, that you know you are not, is dishonest. Obviously she knew it was wrong because she resigned.

By yet another Morningside parent

October 13, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

Clarification: Yes, she DID lie on her resume. For some reason that didn’t make it into the AJC articles. At Tuesday night’s meeting, copies of the relevant page were handed out, and I believe one blogger already quoted from it way up on this page. She claimed to already posses an Ed.D. from the University of South Carolina. (She also said she was working on her dissertation toward a similar degree at another institution, which is true, but would be odd if she’d already gotten another at USC.) This is NOT just a question of how she let people address her.

All this savaging of parents seems to stem from one or two posts about nosy parents, at MES and elsewhere, and y’all have constructed from it a very harsh, very abstract picture of the culture in our neighborhood and at our school that does not match my experience of it. Our PTA and general parent body are, as far as I’ve seen in three years, a big part of what makes Morningside one of the best elementary schools in the state and a very happy place - even though we’re all having to deal with dreadful overcrowding this year, a much more serious issue in the long term.

Easy does it, please.

Sarah

By KA

October 13, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

yetanother Morningside parent, IMO, the reason we have been discussing busy body parents so much is because it rang a familiar chord with the bloggers here. These types are in every school and most of us, whether teachers or a volunteer parents have experienced these people in action. They can ruin the public image of your PTA and parents, as it appears happened in this incident.

By Patti Ghezzi

October 13, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

Hi all,

I saw the resume that parents were given by the Atlanta school system. I would have interpreted it to mean she had two doctoral degrees. She listed two schools, but she did not provide enough information to provide clarity. It was confusing to me, and I thought it would be confusing to readers.

By Whyjusther?

October 13, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this

If the offense of lying is so bad, then someone answer this: Why weren’t APS officials fired when they repeatedly falsified discipline data, and then said, in this very newspaper, that the numbers were so low because “there were no discipline problems to report”?

These are federally mandated documents that APS officials lied on. So why are these people allowed to continue on, if “lying” is such a big deal?

By Taxpayer

October 13, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

Sarah, thanks for sharing this information with us. Most of us blogging here know only what we have read, but KA is right about so many of us reacting strongly to the idea of busybody parents because we have had to deal with them. They can do a tremendous amount of damage with gossip, classroom interference, and snooping. You mentioned that MES is overcrowded. Is this because of NCLB?

What do you think will happen at MES now? I can’t speak for everyone on this blog, but I truly hope, for the sake of the kids, that things settle down at MES and that you all can have a good school year in spite of this controversy.

And KA, it is a true display of character and kindness that you would actually offer to give up your beloved “kumbaya.” Now if we can just get SET to get off that “Brave New World” …

By Ernest

October 13, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this

Patti, thanks for your perspective on the resume. Based on all the conflicting information (not referencing doctorate in introductory letter yet referred to as Dr., not being paid at Dr. level, etc.) it was pretty confusing. At the end of the day, I believe she did the right thing by resigning, so as not to bring further embarassment to herself and the school. Penalties for academic dishonesty applies to EVERYONE in the school. I’m sure this will blow over shortly and those at MES can move on.