Get Schooled

By JustMe

October 2, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

Another Perdue screwie idea for an election year.

Middle schools don’t “graduate” anyone. They pass the students along to the high schools.

Even if the student fails the 8th grade CRCT, most of those failures are passed along to high schools any way. So how are middle school graduation coaches supposed to help????? Maybe he thinks that the middle school graduation coach should pat them on their hinnie on the way out the door towards high school….

By Janine

October 2, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

I just read the news release…and sent an e mail to the gov. [not that I think he’ll read it..or even hear about it.]…THe drop out rate in Ga is horrendous…and I believe the largest number occur in 9th grade. Middle School graduation coaches could be successful if they offer students a path other than college. AND if educators would acknowledge the value and necessity of other careers that require training, and a high level of skill,but not college degrees….plumbers, electricians, etc. If these coaches were to provide our less academically inclined students with options…that don’t include trigonometry, organic chemistry, and other college prep courses for which they are totally unprepared and in which they have no interest, we just might be able to keep them in school..if they could see there is another way…If they could begin preparing with more realistic classes…maybe een apprenticeships. A huge number of students in middle schools will tell you that they are just waiting until they are 16 so they can quit school and get a job.

By MMM

October 2, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

Wow. An extra middle school administrator—-does this count against the 65% rule? Wouldn’t we be better off just changing the name of all these schools to Jr. High—-put the focus where it belongs. On moving up rather than being in some strange “middle”.

By EW

October 2, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

Janine you are right! 9th grade is the year of the drop out. For those of us in middle school we see it coming when they step in the door in the 6th grade, however the gov. doesnt want honesty - every child is not college prep material. If I can tell a child and parent as a middle school coach that they need to learn a trade, let me sign up for it.

By Ernest

October 2, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

If this ‘extra’ administrator can focus on several of the things mentioned by Janine, I’m in favor of it. Of course, we need to ensure that the physical plant and instructor infrastructure is in place to accomplish this.

If anyone caught it last week, DoE Secretary Spellings recommended an national database for tracking at the college level. Could this be part of a plan to eventually have tracking at the PK-12 level?

MMM, check out the Issues section in the Sunday AJC. One commentary suggested that the Federal DoE has found that most school systems are allocating over 66% now. This should be researched further.

By V for Vendetta

October 2, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

You’ve got to be kidding right?

How many more ways can we come up with to hold kids hands, take accountability totally out of schools, and pretty much make them completely unprepared for the future? Kids already have a terrible sense of what is expected of them at the high school level, and they seem to have no clue as to how they will be treated in college or in the real world.

What is going on? Why do we need these coaches? Why should we give a flaming rat’s arse if kids are unable to understand the importance of school by the time they are fourteen years old? If they don’t realize why school is necessary by that age, then they will probably be diggin ditches for a living anyway. I am sick and freaking tired of catering to the lowest common denominator. Why don’t we spend some of that time and money on people that work with the gifted kids and help them prepare the often lengthy and complex appications to the Harvards, Yales, and Columbias of the world.

Stupid is a virus people, and it’s spreading. Sounds funny, but it’s true.

By OldSchool

October 2, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

C’mon folks, graduation coaches are not administrators. They’re FOOTBALL coaches! At least at one high school this is evidently the case because our “grad” coach can usually be found in the fieldhouse instead of the guidance department.

I’m sure middle schools could use more coaches too.

By jim d

October 2, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

What a waste of tax dollars.

Every one of the kids at risk or their parents is already aware if they are at risk, and for a measley $40,000 a year per school we can hire someone to reafirm this information.

Sounds like a job producing incentive to me.

By jim d

October 2, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Yeah V and some of us are quite aware that “ya just can’t fix stupid”

By jim d

October 2, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this

Ernest,

Just for the record.

Is your wife employed as a school administrator?

By Janine

October 2, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

I would agree with you , V….IF my tax money didn’t have to support the drop outs…if no other way than through Medicaid, Peachcare for their kids…food stamps…It looks like a pay now or pay later deal to me.

By jim d

October 2, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

Sonny must be very concerned if he thinks that a few votes purchased by creating a few do nothing jobs will make a difference in the elections.

By EW

October 2, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

Janine you are on it today — Pay now or pay later people…. However the coach thing is not going to work UNLESS we can tell them about occupations that they can work with their hands and be realistic.

By Ernest

October 2, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

JimD, actually my wife is a Special Ed teacher, hence her compassion. She’s been doing this for over 20+ years, helping many of the ‘forgotten’ children. I’ve asked her to consider something else but she fears that if she doesn’t, who will. As a result, I’m extremely proud of her.

It makes for interesting discussions at dinner with her compassion and my logic :).

By MMM

October 2, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

Ernest—I read the article, and since there is no real coorilation between 65% and outcomes, I think it is a silly effort at remote micromanagement by Republicans. How un-Republican of them.

Now the question of whether another councilor at the middle school level would be useful is different. Some combination of truent officer/additional person to identify and bond with those that have tuned out may have merit.

But my point was that we have decided to do this without questioning whether the huge size and catch all concept of middle schools is much of the problem. Why not keep the 6th graders in elementary school and make them feel like the mature examples for the younger ones. Then focus them on High school by being in a Junior High next. Or what about K-8 schools so that they aren’t lost and trying to make new friends when they are attracted to the lowest, most outragous behavior?

Oops! can’t talk about that—it would involve questioning the value of all these big wherehouses we have built. Might have to redistrict. Make someone mad.

Speaking of mad—how are the Kittridge parents doing right now?

By Jim in Marietta

October 2, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this

I think a better use of the money would be for the govenor to send out a task force to some of the states that have a better track record (preferably the top ten say for the last six years) than Georgia in the public education game, and see what works for them. If you fix it they will come (and stay).

By MMM

October 2, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

Boy did I have some typos in the last post.

Sorry ya’all. Please don’t thow me out.

By Ernest

October 2, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Offtopic so I’m asking for forgiveness in advance. MMM, Kristina Torres wrote a good and informative article in the Saturday AJC. For those not in DeKalb, the school system is looking to be ‘creative’ with potential land swaps with the hopes of getting new facilities and not impacting taxpayers. One location that may be impacted in the site where Kittedege Magnet Schools sites. Obviously, those parents are concerned and have been extremely vocal. Some of the discussions are still in there infancy however I understand the school system is still committed to Kittredge. Does that mean this committment is to the existing facility in the existing location? Time will tell…

By Janine

October 2, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

Earnest. THe school board is going to discuss the land deal tonight in executive session. Something I read, I think in the AJC this morning,said that they are committed to keeping Kittredge , it just may move to another sight. The group wanting to buy the property will build a new K-12 School of the Arts and a new facility for Kittredge.

By SET

October 2, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

I’m wondering why this is so controversial - to me it just sounds like the state wants to put more counselors/social workers in the schools. While they are at it they should re-fund school nurse positions that seems to have been done away with.

There is the thought that if the schools were better run in the first place you wouldn’t need so many hand-holders for the kids. I fear the reason the students are in such need of social workers is because they have been brought up in the schools to not take care of themselves or to behave and get their work done.

But I could be wrong about that. I’m still learning from the other posters.

By Janine

October 2, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

SET,, Interesting you should say “brought up in the schools….” which is a pretty accurate observation of many students, and not just students that you would think of as deprived. Our society today has so many parents who are neglecting their responsibiities to their children..and for so many reasons. Working several jobs, zonked out on drugs, babies trying to raise babies, and even corporate parents always on the go…and wealthy parents always partying and traveling and buying their guilt away are among those that come to mind.

By jim d

October 2, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

Janine,

Lets also take a look at these middle schools with 3000 plus students.

Think that might add to the equation?

By Ernest

October 2, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

Janine, if there was a ‘Poster of the Day’ award, you would get it today. Very insightful postings on your part. Don’t worry, I don’t have a bicycle not will require ‘perfect attendance’ to the blog…. :)

By concernedparent30329

October 2, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this

Not to sway too much off topic, but just to clarify. The deal in DeKalb involves only a new k12 arts school (which will remain on the site) and a new stadium (not sure that was mentioned in the article.) All other facilities will be relocated to existing DeKalb schools, which is why Dr. Lewis now speaks of merging schools next year instead of the following year.

finally, I don’t think that this deal is done at all. I think there will be much resistance to losing more public housing in DeKalb. A big development just went away in Chamblee and affordable housing remains a real problem in DeKalb.

By SET

October 2, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

Janine: Yes I believe the children are being brought up in the schools - especially at secondary school level. The parents both work and the work seems to be larger in the parents’ life now than I remember in the 1960s. But that’s just me. I remember family dinners. I am informed that family dinner hour is rare now. Part of that is commute times. Part of it is clashing school event and parent work hours.

I believe parents are allowing schools to “raise” the kids including set moral standards - mainly because the parents haven’t the time, energy and interest to do so.

Is this always such a bad thing? No. The ruling class have used boarding schools for a century to raise captains of industry. But I think they planned these things. The current professional class is planning less and assuming more. And they don’t want to hear any words of warning about it either.

I’d love to see some of my younger co-workers tell their kid that he/she is getting fat, lazy and presumptious so tomorrow they report to the local general avaition airport for flight training classes. - That would give the kids something to stay alive over.

Myself - my parents made us all take sailing lessons at age 12 for a few summers in progressively larger boats. This included taking the bus alone to the lake. They didn’t want us lying around the house and we already knew how to swim. The classes made us carry our own boats and launch them at the water, right them when capsized, clean the wet sails and put everything away. We had to keep dry clothes around. Not bad for age 12 and no parents on scene.

(One of my siblings expressed reservations on swimming lessons at 4 or 5 and was unceremoniously thrown into the pool. He did learn how to swim. This was the late ’50s and they did things differently then - simple, direct approach.)

I couldn’t imagine having a 12 year old taking a public bus in California nowadays.

I wish more kids were pushed out of their comfort zones and kept busy learning something that might open new doors for them. Schools could do that.

Brave New World.

By lynn d

October 2, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

One size doesn’t fit all… Some schools might need a truancy officer, some might need an additional math teacher, some middle schools might need a full time dedicated social worker. If the Governor has money to burn (and it sure seems like it lately) let him give it directly to the schools and let them decide how to use it.

In my opinion, middle schools need to be smaller and so do the class sizes.

By Ernest

October 2, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this

CP30329, I understood it also involves a Performing Arts Center to support the K-12 school. I’m not sure if it would involve a new stadium but at a minimum, significant renovations to the existing one.

I’m sure you are aware tht much of the talk of merging schools is because to the number of small ES (less than 400 enrollment) in the county.

By Hmm

October 3, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

When I was younger, my school counselors handled this role for both GA Middle and High Schools. They ensured you were on the right track for an Academic, Honors, College Prep, Career Tech, or General diploma.

It’s a great idea to bring this back into the schools. And, since Middle School seems to be such a wasteland, what better time to help these kids focus on their future and what they’re doing all this for?

I’d love it if my kid’s middle school offered this starting in 7th grade. So much of what you do in Middle affects your High and the kids don’t always see that. But the school doesn’t provide it right now, so that leaves it up to me. And, that’s fine, but it would be better if we (kid and I) had someone to work with at the school that was focused on this.

By Hmm

October 3, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

Janine said “that they are just waiting until they are 16 so they can quit school and get a job.”

Unfortunately, this is a problem with many of the gifted kids in GA too. They can’t wait to escape the non-challenging curriculum of our state schools. They aim for a GED out of choice, skip off to college early, and then finally, finally they are challenged, happy, and fit-in.

I’m a big believer in giving all the kids more choices. When I attended GA Dekalb schools, we had a variety of Magnet options that don’t exist today. Where are the abundance of Math/Science, Pre-Eng, Pre-Med, Foreign Language, and Gifted magnets? These magnets offered challenge, focus, and academic excellence for all kinds of children.

By jim d

October 3, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

Hmm,

I still respectfully disagree.

$40m a year per school sounds a bit steep for something, being an involved parent, I can do myself.

To be quite honest, many of the counselors I’ve dealt with really weren’t all that well informed. A parent on the other hand has a vested interest in assuring the best for their child.

So to put in in plain english; I don’t need noooo — stinking counselor.

By Hmm

October 3, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

jim d, If they’re crap counselors then I agree with you. My high school counselors were smart, helpful, and very useful. That’s what I remember and hope that my child would receive, which may be really dreamy. Think positive??

By jim d

October 3, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Hmm.

Think positive thoughts and negative cash flow. The scales however remain tipped.

Are MS counselors worth the 5.8 million dollars a year that Sonny’s talking about spending?

The answer to that for me is no. On the other hand it being election time, I’m sure Sonny would respond yes. When are teachers going to wake up and realize he’s simply buying a few votes.

By Ernest

October 3, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

JimD, I can agree with your point, $40m a year per school sounds a bit steep for something, being an involved parent, I can do myself. What you must remember is in many schools, the number of ‘uninvolved’ guardians can exceed the number of involved ones. Once the children of the uninvolved guardians get to HS, unless the child is self motivated, they can further compromise the education of those students that want to be there.

As Janine said earlier, if spending 40K will result in better guidance and recommendations for Middle Schoolers, such as going on a vocational track, it becomes a small investment that could yield great benefits.

Hmmm, keep you ears open on what’s happening in DeKalb. Stakeholders are being provided a chance to help ‘reinvent’ the school system with more choice options. Assuming no major obstacles, this could be exciting.

By jim d

October 3, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

Sorry Ernest,

When I weigh the cost over any percieved improvement I just don’t see it. Many (hows that just me) teachers on these blogs are constantly ranting on parents and parental responsibility. Yet the schools assume this responsibility, rather than forcing parents to do their job, by simply refusing to raise these kids.

JMHO, but sometimes tuff love is the best solution and sometimes it’s the only solution. Personally I believe it’s every parents right to have dumb kids, if thats their choice.

By luvs2teach

October 3, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

jim d - unfortunately schools assume this responsiblity because it’s politically prudent to do so.

I think parents should have the right to have dumb kids, too - as long as they aren’t in my child’s classroom, interferring with his right to learn.

That’s the problem, and that’s why schools have to do something. Otherwise the taxpayers ask (and rightly so), “Why aren’t the schools doing anything to be better?” (and the corollary, “What are my taxpayer dollars paying for, anyway?”)

By Ernest

October 3, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

But JimD, many of us can acknowledge that many guardians have ‘abdicated’ their responsibility with regards to child rearing. Unfortunately, those like us that are trying to ‘do the right thing’ end up have our children’s education compromised.

Interestingly, I spoke to a colleague whose husband is a teacher. She indicated he is frustrated because the AP Discipline has taken a ‘hand off’ approach to reprimanding students. Instead of him having the ability to put a misbehaving child out of the room, he is told to ‘deal with the child’. As a result, some of the other kids have begun acting out because they see this. Here is the kicker, the teacher stays after school each day offering tutorial for those who CAN’T get what they need during the regular class period. In this case, the ‘minority’ behavior is negatively impacting the ‘majority’.

If these counselors can help redirect some of our kids to something that will enable them to make positive contributions, I’m for it. Will it work for every single kid? Nope. We need to have the right measures in place to determine if we are getting a return on that investment.

By jim d

October 3, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this

But Ernest,

If the schools don’t change in regards to class make up and discipline it won’t make a bit of difference if we hire 20 counselors at every middle school.We will still be teaching to the bottom and boring the kids that you claim counselors will help by directing them into areas they can’t get the education to enter.

Perhaps I’m just looking at this too logically?

By jim d

October 3, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

L2T,

Whats this? “I think parents should have the right to have dumb kids, too”

You mean you don’t hold with NCLB? :-)

By Ernest

October 3, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

It’s amazing how much we agree, Jim. Perhaps it’s our ‘life experiences’ that is influencing how we see this matter. This is one where I’m calling for a truce.

By SET

October 3, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this

Properly managed - “dumb kids” can become an important part of society. I always wanted other kids to do my heavy lifting. Once they were trained to take orders they were quite useful. In return I’d make sure they stayed afloat in class.

I know people who have had their childhood dumb friend in their orbit all their lives - getting them jobs and generally making sure they were taken care of. In return they carried the baggage when traveling.

Remember the “Back to the Future” movies?? Someone needs to detail the cars…

Brave New World.

By Hmm

October 4, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

Janine, regarding Dekalb and Choice… It would truly be a glorious thing to have choices in Dekalb again. However, the current choices such as Kittredge and Chamblee Middle High Achievers (the closets things we have to Gifted Magnets) are impossible to attend unless you’ve been attending Dekalb since K.
They hold lotteries every year, but the kids rolling over from grade to grade fill all the spaces. So, what in the world are the lotteries used for? Waitlists, that’s it. When I was growing up, Dekalb had 1 school dedicated to Career Tech. I remember touring the school with my classmates. It was a great op for the kids not wanting to go to college, but quickly learn a trade.

By Ernest

October 4, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

Hmm, if you have ideas/thoughts with regards to what type of choice offerings you’d like to see in DeKalb, let the school system know. I understand they are in the process of publishing the goals and objectives of the Design Teams on the main website in the next few days. Who knows, maybe Patti will consider a blog topic on this one day (hint hint) :)

Along those lines, I’m interested in the skills various businesses feel they need from those with HS diplomas. One key thing I hear is strong verbal and written communication skills. Are there others?