Get Schooled

By JustMe

September 21, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

Well, I will type it. I know that there will be many to disagree, but this is my opinion any way….

Students are not over weight because they have been missing 15 minutes of play time during school. Students are over weight because they eat too much, they eat the wrong things, and after school they are more likely to be watching TV, playing video/computer games or some other stagnate activity. This is just ridiculous for any breathe to be wasted arguing this.

To me, this is another symptom of the same problem that has been discussed on other blogs….. parents not doing their job. Parents should ensure that there are after school activities for their children - sports, ballet, etc. And, parents should ensure a proper diet for their children - not cookies, pizza, and take-out chinese food.

However, as always, it has become acceptable for our school system to step in and try to do the job that the parents are not doing. So, we take time away from the classroom and allocated it for “play time.”

Whatever will we all say when/if the test scores go down a year after “play time” is introduced?

Some high schools are already taking class time away to teach students things that parents should be teaching….. how to get a drivers license, how to register to vote, and so on. It seems that we are headed towards a society where the only thing that parents do is provide material things and schools do the rest, to include “parenting.”

By OldSchool

September 21, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

The elementary school my daughters attended had and still has recess. It was a blessing- letting kids blow of steam and made for some truly memorable moments. My oldest spent time in “the mushpot” for fussing with friends and soon learned diplomacy and patience. My youngest got quite good at tetherball and playing somthing called “birds.” I think it was a game of imagination.

I remember well watching groups of kids play games handed down from their mothers and grandmothers like “Here Come Uncle Jesse” and “Miss Gurley Had Some Time.” These were singing rhythmical games and were a delight to watch.

Kids don’t always need equipment for active play. They just need active imaginations and time.

By Anne

September 21, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

I believe children need some play time to stay healthy but that recess should be supervised, organized and structured to avoid taunting and fights. When I was in elementary school the teachers handed out jump ropes and balls and divided us up to play certain games. Sometimes the entire grade would play red rover or simon says. I would like to see schools have organized recess time.

By nel

September 21, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

OldSchool is so right. All those games that we used to play on the playground have disappeared now because there is no playground time to enjoy them. When was the last time you saw girls jumping rope in the middle of your street. Playing for the sake of playing has disappeared from our culture. Shame.

JustMe, if you haven’t noticed, society has completely changed and there is nothing wrong with taking a step back and realizing that things have changed dramatically and maybe, just maybe, we need to interject a little “old school” back into our lives. How many parents let their kids go outside for hours on end with only the admonition “be home before the lights go on”. I’ve heard many people talk about what a shame that is. How badly off were the test scores when there was recess?

By PEfan

September 21, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

Oh JustME, give it a rest. My daughter was fascinated by my stories of having PE everyday in elementary school, and being able to hone a skill over a few weeks (volleyball, softball, running, dodgeball, kickball, physical fitness routines) instead of having PE 1-2 times a week with no continuity at all. Even at 10, she agrees that a real PE (what used to be called recess when I was in elementary school)would be a great benefit to kids. I don’t think there is any benefit to having 15 minutes to stand around and socialize, but real activity for all kids would be ideal, 30 minutes a day during the school day.

And scores won’t go down because of “playtime” as you put it. It has been shown that exercise heightens brain function and improves mood. What’s wrong with taking the time during the school day? Tack 30 minutes onto the school day if necessary.

By bellamomma

September 21, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Heck, i need a recess!

By Flo

September 21, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

I COMPLETELY disagree with JustMe. I work in Public Health. True we are asking schools to take on responsibility, but this is fair. There are certain things that we want correct to be correctly disseminated to the majority of our population; it is in public interest to do so. A democracy is upheld by the participation of more (if not all) of its citizens. Similarly, I feel more safe on the road if the other drivers are licensed to do so. Similarly, we are all concerned about social security, medicare costs, and life expectancy. If we have more obese children, the life expectancy will go down. This means the years of life people live with chronic diseases like CVD, diabetes, etc will increase. This means we will have a younger sicker population which contributes less to the economy and demands more. Additionally, exercise improves brain function, decreases stress, and improves learning. So it is in the PUBLIC interest to teach these children good eating habits and exercise. It is not enough to leave it to the parents because OBVIOUSLY the parents are misinformed. 60% of the US adult population is overweight. How are sedintary people with bad eating habits going to teach good ones to their children? We institutionalize and standardize things we think are important to be learned accurately and properly implemented. I think diet and exercise should be at the top of the list with reading and writing. In fact, lets put it in between: Read. Recess. Write. Sounds like the perfect school day.

By decaturparent

September 21, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

Puhleeze, there are oodles of studies out there that show that recess improves performance at school. Kids aren’t machines, they are little people who have only been on this earth for a few years.

Unstructured recess is essential for helping children hone social skills. That includes the good and the bad - even dealing with a little bullying - I don’t mean anything out of hand or dangerous, but just controlling or unkind behavior.

How many on this board had to face up to a bully or a queen bee? Did you learn something from that experience that has helped you in adult life? Do you think that bullies don’t exist in the adult world?

At recess, children are free to do what they want. They can wander around and stare into space, natter on with their friends, build forts, or run around in a circle screaming like a maniac. They key is that it needs to be up to the child - not an adult - to determine what they do for a little while.

P.E. has its benefits, but teaches compliance just like the rest of school does. Therefore, it is not a substitute for recess. Recess, fosters creativity and social growth unlike most of the rest of school - especially thanks to No Child Left Educated. We don’t need compliant adults, especially in this day and age. We need creative adults who understand themselves and others and who can think critically and stand up for themselves and others instead of following others like lemmings.

More afterschool structure certainly is not the answer either. Maybe an activity or two, but children can’t learn who they are and what they are capable of if they are constantly shuttled around to this class and that class.

I let mine go out and play. Our neighborhood is safe (fortunately), so if it’s pretty and they are old enough - I don’t want to see them inside until 5:00.

If I were queen of the universe, kids would have an hour of recess each day - playground equipment is nice, but not necessary. A structured activity or game be offered to those who want to play it, but those who don’t can do whatever they want - within certain boundries of course.

Boy, I’m on fire today. Coffee too strong I guess.

By jim d

September 21, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

Gee whiz, just me.

Care to post your list of how to raise a child? I’m sure it would benefit society if we all knew how to raise our children to suit you.

You have just exemplified the reason we have such a great deal of problems in education today.

A few holier than thou Teachers wanting everyone to raise their children to your standards.

Ain’t going to happen dear so get over yourself.

By Shooter

September 21, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Some of my fondest memories are from recess in grammar school. I think eliminating recess from grade school is a big mistake, and should be brought back.A few minutes of free time and fresh air can make a big difference in anyones day.

By Dusty

September 21, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

Children need time to blow off steam. When I was in elementary school, we had daily PE class plus a morning and afternoon recess along with a lunch recess, depending on how long it took to eat your lunch.

All these complaints about ADD or the like could probably be linked in some way to children needing a break. Heck, even as adults we need a break during the day.

I can’t see how taking 15 or 20 minutes out of the day to let kids run around outside and PLAY is going to affect their test scores. I think schools are relying too heavily on worrying about test scores so they don’t actually teach anything but how to pass these tests.

Let the kids run around and be kids.

By Dusty

September 21, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Children need time to blow off steam. When I was in elementary school, we had daily PE class plus a morning and afternoon recess along with a lunch recess, depending on how long it took to eat your lunch.

All these complaints about ADD or the like could probably be linked in some way to children needing a break. Heck, even as adults we need a break during the day.

I can’t see how taking 15 or 20 minutes out of the day to let kids run around outside and PLAY is going to affect their test scores. I think schools are relying too heavily on worrying about test scores so they don’t actually teach anything but how to pass these tests.

Let the kids run around and be kids.

By ABS

September 21, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

Yes, yes, yes, kids need to be kids and blow off steam. We still have recess at our elementary schools, I wish they had them at the middle and high schools. I agree with whoever said that kids and adults BOTH need breaks during the day. I walk everyday during my lunch hour - if I don’t I can tell a big difference, I’m cranky and grumpy - so why wouldn’t kids be the same way? My husband is a 2nd grade teacher and believe me, if his students didn’t get a break - they would completely blow up!

By ABS

September 21, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

Yes, yes, yes, kids need to be kids and blow off steam. We still have recess at our elementary schools, I wish they had them at the middle and high schools. I agree with whoever said that kids and adults BOTH need breaks during the day. I walk everyday during my lunch hour - if I don’t I can tell a big difference, I’m cranky and grumpy - so why wouldn’t kids be the same way? My husband is a 2nd grade teacher and believe me, if his students didn’t get a break - they would completely blow up!

By JustMe

September 21, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

jim d-

Another personal attack from you: how shocking….

By Teacher Teacher

September 21, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

Recess should be mandatory in elementary, middle, and high schools across Georgia. I applaud APS for finally doing something worthwhile for the children. This concept of bell-to-bell instruction with kids being treated like little machines for data input disgusts me. They grow up so quickly these days! Why not let the schools allow them some tiny outlet for their youthful spirits and hormones! Otherwise, they just act out in classes, in hallways, in cafeterias, or, ultimately, in the streets.

They are children, not tiny adults!

And, now, let the attacks begin….

By jim d

September 21, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

Personal attacks?

Exactly what do you call leveling accusations that parents don’t know how to raise their kids?

Oh, Oh, I know ——Professional observation—-Right?

Geez, what a hypocrite.

By Mike

September 21, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

90% of all that I learned in elementary school was on the playground. This is where you usually learn important lessons such as competition, teamwork, and social skills. Sad to think that there are some systems out there that have done away with recess.

By JustMe

September 21, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

jim d -

You call me a hypocrite. There is also a name for you.

By Cam

September 21, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

jim, why must you be a jerk? Justme has a right to believe whatever why they want and you have no right to call names. No one has called you names, right? Name calling is like an elementary child that NEEDS to learn social skills.

By teach overseas

September 21, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Organized recess? Good golly- could one more mintue of their day be organized and supervised by adults? Kids have absolutely no free time in which to make up and play their own games, ref their own fights and deal with peers in their own way. Think of your kid’s day- how many minutes are there where they get to do what they want, without an adult, screen or other “interactive” toy to do the thinking for them?

By jim d

September 21, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

Thanks Cam,

I really needed a good laugh. Thanks for clearing that up.

jim, why must you be a jerk

No one has called you names

Name calling is like an elementary child

By JustMe

September 21, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

Patti -

Do you monitor these postings or not? jim d has gotten out of control and needs to be banned/deleted.

By JustMe

September 21, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

jimmy d -

I never said (or intended to say) that all parents were “bad” parents. However, unless you live in some hole (and YOU may very well do just that), then you can obviously see that a percentage of parents do not know how to parent.

What I say is not a personal attack. What you said was a personal attack.

By English Lady

September 21, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this

Growing up in England, we had a morning, lunch and afternoon break as well as PE, all the way up until I left what you call high school and what we call secondary school. Children need to have a break sometime during the day in order to let loose and be themselves, hang out with their friends and socialize, then return back to the classroom to learn.

What’s happening now is children are using class time to socialize and be disruptive, sleep, etc. because they have no other time to do so. That’s what breaks are for. Children get restless. It is amazing how society expects them to learn like robots. Test scores are not affected by break time but by the poor quality of the material presented, some teachers who really shouldn’t be teaching, lack of adequate school supplies/books, space issues, and the current climate of attaining great test scores at all costs to the detriment of the children.

I miss those days of playing marbles, ring- around-the rosie, tag or it, jump rope, football (soccer) with a tennis ball and any other games we made up.

Yes, I do agree that parents should be more accountable for their children. It is, unfortunately, getting easier and easier for parents to let someone else or something else do the parenting for them but this is because as a society, we have allowed it. However, I do not think it’s always necessary and it becomes very costly for parents to have to enroll their children in an after school activity such as ballet or sports just to have something for them to do or be “well rounded”. Being well rounded shouldn’t mean being the best ballet or soccer player but how to get along with and learn from others.

By jim d

September 21, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this

Excuse me?

That a few holier than thou teachers?

I guess if the shoe fits.

By nel

September 21, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

Patti:

Very off topic, but I wondered if you’s seen this article by Bill Bennett & Rod Paige in the Washington Post about the need for a national school test and the “fudging” of NCLB results. Here’s the link: www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/20/AR2006092001587.html

By IOC

September 21, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

Wow JustMe you seem to be the one that needs to be banned LOL!!! Are you friends with Pollyanna too? What is WRONG with the teachers in this state. Whatever it is can you please pull that stick out and soon.

By jim d

September 21, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

Hi Nel,

A nationalazation of education. Does that really surprise you? Since the inception of NCLB those that should be in the know have predicted that was one of the places we were headed.

Will it be good for education in this country? Who knows? But personally I do find the thought troubling.

By JustMe

September 21, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

English Lady, et. al.

I, as well, had recess in school when I was young. However, as someone already pointed out, a lot has changed since then.

Schools are expected to teach much, much more content compared to when I was in school. While very few students took courses such as calculus and physics in my day in high school, these days, students are expected to take those courses. In addition, there are technology classes, computer classes, and many other subjects that were simply not around back in my day.

So, then, what I am hearing, is that you EXPECT schools to teach all of the basic content that we learned when we were in school. You EXPECT schools to teach the additional content since our world has changed since then. You EXPECT schools to teach what I have been calling the “parenting” stuff. And now, you EXPECT schools to give a 20 minute “free time.”

All the while, you DON’T want to add more school days. You DON’T want to add more school hours per day.

But, you EXPECT the schools to have great SAT scores, great CRCT scores, and so on.

Am I the only one that sees a problem here? And, we wonder why students are dropping out?

By Pollyanna

September 21, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

ya’ll need to listen to English Lady! IMHO kids need FREE recess time, at least 15 min mid morning and mid afternoon, and 30 minutes for lunch, 15 to eat and 15 to hang out. P.E. (which is organized recess)should be taught every day. The body and the mind need refreshing breaks from 6 hours of seatwork.

By Miss Manners

September 21, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

jim d and JustMe, Both of you need to step away from the computer, take a deep cleansing breath, and go out for some free recess time. Take a walk outside on this glorious day. Kumbaya : )

By JustMe

September 21, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

Pollyanna

Okay, let’s do the math! Add your 15 min morning break plus 30 minutes of lunch. That’s 45 min. Plus, if your school is on block schedule, one class of PE would be 90 minutes. That’s 135 minutes.

And, in high school, there is usually about 6 minutes to change classes. Assumming block scheduling, that would be a total of 18 more minutes. Adding 135 plus 18 is 153 min.

The school day for the students in DeKalb County is from 8:20 AM to 3:20 PM. That is 6 hours, or 360 min.

So, you are suggesting that schools spend 153 min. out of 360 min. on free time/exercise/etc.? That comes out to about 43% of the time with only about 57% of instruction time left for science, math, english, history, and so on.

Is this really what you want?

By Pollyanna

September 21, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

JustMe, Disclaimer, I am not a teacher, but I have spent a lot of time in school and tutoring. First, I think block schedules are insane! Nobody, child or adult, has the energy/attention span to learn for that long a period of time. People learn best in 20 min segments, so I think classes should each be 45 minutes long, 5 min for class admin stuff like and homework assignment and collection, and two 20 minute teaching segments. That means 4 1/2 hours of classes, 1/2 hour lunch, and 1/2 hour for two 15 min recesses (morning and afternoon). That’s 5 1/2 hours, time left for 1/2 hour of P.E. for everyone!!!! Work smarter, not harder.

By OldSchool

September 21, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

I’m beginning to think we need to recruit an English major to teach some folks how to stay on topic.

Just Me, if you’ll go back and read Patti’s question, you’ll perhaps see just how far afield you strayed with your initial post. We’ve beaten the dead horse that is “lack of parenting by parents” until I’m about ready to chew nails and spit bullets!

I have driven through neighborhoods on Christmas morning, on the way to Grandma’s house, and where there used to be lots of kids outside trying out new bikes, trikes, wagons, skates, and doing other active things, the past few years have seen nothing but deserted yards and sidewalks. I guess they’re all inside with X-boxes and Playstations. Sad, very sad.

If schools can give kids back a few minutes so they can rediscover freeplay and imaginations, I’m all for it. But the last thing we need here in THIS playground are bullies and brats. If you state your opinion, expect someone to disagree. Then you can choose to react it or ignore it.

But at the very least, if you’ll try to stay on topic, I promise I will too. Deal?

By Pollyanna

September 21, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

In middle and high school, that extra half hour will have to be used for the 5 minute class changing time, so their PE will have to included in the 6 subject schedule. Well, what do you other teachers think?

By JustMe

September 21, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this

Pollyanna,

With all due respect….

If you set 20 minutes for a class time: it takes about 5 minutes to settle everyone down and to take roll. That leaves 15 minutes. With about 5 minutes remaining, the students start to wiggle and pack up to leave the room. So, the “real instruction” time is down to 10 minutes.

And, for “good instruction,” teachers are supposed to do projects, do labs in science, and so on. Do you really think anything productive can come in 10 to 15 minutes per day and the students will perform well on these standardized tests?

Remember, these are children. They are not robots as someone pointed out. They do not march into a room and immediately sit down, quiet, with their books open and minds open, ready to learn.

By Pollyanna

September 21, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

JustMe, I said 45 minutes total per class, 5 min of that for settling in, roll call, homework collection and two 20 minute teaching segments. (you switch gear after the first 20 minutes to the second 20 minutes) Keep it fresh and they learn better. I had three kids in school, helped in the classroom and tutored, and know all about what kids can do.

By JustMe

September 21, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Old School -

First, I briefly (in 3 sentences of my first post), mentioned the parenting issue. And, that first blog was primarily about recess. So, I am taken aback by your “off topic” remark.

Second, I am fine with schools giving back time for recess. Heck, let’s really give 50% of school time allocated to it! Lord knows that most of the kids need to run laps for months in order to be considered just over-weight and not obese. And, as a teacher, I would be the first in line to volunteer to sit outside on a beautiful day, watching the kids play!

Just don’t come back pointing fingers at the schools when the standardized test scores drop like a rock and GA is once again last in the SATs!

By nel

September 21, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

JustMe: Leave English Lady alone. I know what she’s talking about. We had 90 minutes break including lunch but school was from 9-4, a thought the would cause anarchy in the US. We had classes in Maths, English Literature, English Language, History, Geography, Science, PE, Domestic Sciencem (cooking) for girls, Woodwork or Metalwork for boys. In Secondary School you had your core classes and science class was broken into Chemistry and Biology, plus Domestic Science (cooking) and/or Sewing for girls, Woodwork or Metalwork. We are big on Track & Field in the UK, and inter-school track meets took place during the school day so the older kids we able to attend and cheer on our school. All of this done without damaging our psyches…what a concept.

By JustMe

September 21, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

Pollyanna,

Okay, I understand.

However, your 1/2 hour for PE is in question. I understand that currently coachs give 10 minutes to dress out and report to the field/gym, and they also give 10 minutes at the end to again change clothes/shower. So, out of your 30 minutes of PE there will only be 10 minutes of exercise?

In any case, I am a high school teacher. And, I prefer the block schedule. Having 90 minutes for a single class is great. The class can really discuss/learn topics in depth rather than simply memorize factoids. We can “change gears” within a single period multiple times to reinforce the lessons many different ways. We can complete a fairly major project in one period so that all students can make connections to the lesson. And, I also incorporate small mental “breaks” throughout the period so that there is no burn out.

I cannot imagine teaching only 45 minutes in a period. That small amount of time would allow me to simply state the content once - no discussion, no explanation, no reinforcement, no projects. IMHO, learning cannot be done as well compared to the 90 minute period. Please remember, that is just MHO!

I believe that many teachers would prefer only 45 minutes. Lesson plans would be a breeze and the periods would fly by. Teachers that really do use the full 90 minutes must think about and create great lesson plans. Teachers have to find multiple ways to teach content to keep the students attention. It is much more challenging to teach a 90 minute period, but I think that it is worthwhile for the students that want to learn.

By JustMe

September 21, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

nel

So I am not allowed to converse with English Lady? I said nothing mean to her. I was responding to her post.

Why do you call me out like that?

You are welcome to your opinion. English Lady is welcome to her opinion. And, I would hope that you would welcome my opinion.

But to address your last post, back in the days that you are recalling, did you take Trigonometry? How about Calculus? Were there any AP classes? How about Physics? My point is that there is so much more content in today’s schools compared to that time.

Unless we, as a society, add hours to the school day or days to the school calendar, there is no way to incorporate everything that is being requested.

By Pollyanna

September 21, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

JustMe, I am not proposing uniformity for K-12! Just a suggestion for looking at class schedules in a creative way to open up time for recess, the subject of this thread.

By Pollyanna

September 21, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

JustMe, The recess that I think we were initally talking about is for elementary school, and middle school would benefit, too. By high school age, kids have settled down to learn, or not, and you can’t make them if they don’t want to at that point. But high schoolers could benefit by having enough time to eat and at least visit the restroom, which was not possible for my three kids in high school. So they ended up eating at their lockers between classes, or getting a bathroom pass and going to the locker for a snack during class.

By Nikole

September 21, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

With all the complaining about the logistics of including recess, let’s remember that most of us attended schools with recess and gym or music everyday. So it must not be an impossibility.

By SET

September 21, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this

Why is it that all this namecalling breaks out on a blog about recess?

If Patti ever throws a party for the bloggers will she have to hire bouncers?

Speaking of which - Patti, Xmas will be coming up. Why don’t you have a get-together for the Education Blog? You can EMail us code words so we can identify ourselves at the door and avoid impersonators.

Hopefully the whole thing wouldn’t turn into a food fight with Cake and Ice Cream.

By Pollyanna

September 21, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this

SET, Great idea! Would you fly in from California?

By OldSchool

September 22, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this

just me, please go back and read Patti’s article, Patti’s questions, and your own first response. It is to those three things that I referred earlier. Add to that your posts about PE classes, block scheduling, and SAT/Standardized test scores and you have the basis for my “off topic” remarks.

Having said that and getting back to the original topic, in my own opinion, recess is less about fitness and preventing obesity as it is about “wellness.” Wellness includes the spirit and mental state as well as the physical state of the individual. IN MY OPINION, children need a break from the structure of classes…including PE. No doubt there are many children who have no idea what to do with themselves in a freeplay situation but children are by nature creative and resilient and will quickly find ways to entertain themselves. If they start behaving inappropriately or engaging in activities hurtful to themselves or others, the adults responsible for overseeing the kids at recess must step in and correct the situation.

I always enjoyed taking part in the games children devised for themselves. That gave me the opportunity to keep a closer eye on them and make corrections as needed.

A 15-20 break could breathe renewed vigor into everyone. IN MY OWN OPINION.

By HB

September 22, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

I’m glad to see that recess is coming back to elementary schools. How can kids learn to interact with each other and work out social problems for themselves if they don’t have some free time with no adults hovering over them, giving instructions on what to play, how to play, etc.? I believe a lot of learning happens when kids make up their own games, create their own rules, get in arguments about it, and then make up without the help of a grown-up — all within 15 minutes!

As for middle and high school, I don’t really think that recess is necessary depending on how lunch is set up. I went to a jr high, and we had 5 minutes to change classes (a little time to talk and move around every hour) and a 35-40 minute lunch when we were allowed to hang out outside after we finished eating. Maybe middle school is more regimented? I’ve heard of silent hallway rules, and don’t kids all go to the next class together as a cluster? Ours was more like high school with individual schedules and a free for all rush to your next class. Can they leave the cafeteria during lunch? Do they have to sit together as a class like in elementary school, or can they mingle? My two high schools let us go outside during lunch too. One had 45-minute lunch “waves” scheduled within 4th period, the other gave a full 55-mintue class period for lunch. Do most high school students still get to wander around and have a good chunk of free time during lunch?

By thomas

September 22, 2006 09:52 AM | Link to this

I, for one, am in favor of “recess”, “unstructured break”, “afternoon break”, or whatever name/term you want to call it. Being a veteran teacher, I have learned about the importance of breaks for all children, especially elementary and middle aged students.

We simply attempt to place too many burdens on children who naturally cannot grind away for 3-4, 5 and 6 hours straight. We adults find it difficult to sit 90 minutes straight through a class, yet we expect 7,8,10, and 11 year olds to do it. It is known through research that children’s attention spans average around one minute per year of age. That means that is is very difficult to lecture and give continous seat work to a student and get good results. Children also need some time to unwind and refresh. I have always had breaks (even the dreaded “recess”). The students actually learn more because they are not burned out.

I have heard of schools (Reading First) that require 135 minutes of uninterrupted reading and many middle schools have block scheduling (90 mins straight classes). Forget about recess. These kids can’t even go the bathroom. I understand that one middle school gives the kids like two restroom breaks all day. If you need another, you get charged for it. You get like two extra for the whole week. Can you imagine an 12-year old being at school from 8 am - 4 pm and getting only 2 (maybe three) breaks. Group p* breaks on top of that. Everybody lined up like cattle.

My point is that schools need to stop being prisons in the name of good instruction. You can have a good learning environment without being on a continual state of lockdown. Having a 15 minute recess outdoors will not result in less student achievement. Turning schools in jails, teachers in drill sergeants, and students into goosestepping automotons sickens me.

By decaturparent

September 22, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

Just me - you really need to do a little research or go to some professional development classes on the topic of recess and brain function. Your apparent lack of understanding about how children learn really concerns me, being that you are actually a teacher and all.

There are dozens of large, well done studies showing that children’s attention spans, ability to retain information, and general attitude improve drastically when given a significant amount of free time each day. The net improvement in cognitive funtion actually allows chidren to learn more even though they are on task less.

After time spent learning new information, the brain needs time off task to process that information an store it appropriately before it can take on more information. Recess provides that time.

Please pay attention to the science behind recess. A little free time for your kids will improve their scores.

Ugh - scores… I have grown to hate that word.

By JustMe

September 22, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

decaturparent -

One (of many) points of confusion concerning what you speak is the definition of a “break.” A mental “break” does not necessarily mean recess time. Please re-read your research.

A “break” to process new information can be something as simple as switching to a different topic. Also, I teach high school.

Please have no concerns over my being a teacher. My classes have exceeded EOCT scores in the school system and in the state, thank you very much. I must be doing SOMETHING right. I have the highest EOCT scores in the school for my given subject, and also in the County, and they are way above State average.

I was well aware that my initial post would be attacked. I was disappointed when I was personally attacked.

By Pollyanna

September 22, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this

JustMe, Nobody is attacking YOU! This is a discussion on recess issues, and your comments transcended the issues presented, and that is what people have responded to. Your splitting of hairs, and nitpicking words is not responsive to the recess issue. The fact is that RECESS is needed by all of us on a regular basis, whether you sit in a classroom or in an office. We all need a break from work to refresh ourselves. Recess does make one more productive, and less crabby and frankly you are long overdue for recess, so go outside for recess, OK?

By JustMe

September 22, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

Pollyanna,

You are wrong. I have been called names (ie: hypocrite) - that is a personal attack. A poster said that they were concerned that I was a teacher - that is a personal attack. I was told to “get over myself” - that is a personal attack.

The term recess does have a specific meaning. It normally means that students go outside to play for a period of time. I don’t think that I am splitting hairs here.

By Pollyanna

September 22, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

JustMe, Sorry, your feelings were hurt. Here’s a playground coping mechanism that kids who have recess know. Just say, “I’m rubber and you’re glue, everything that you say bounces off me and sticks to you.” This saying works for me and in many social situations, try it : )

By nel

September 22, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

Splitting hairs or not, there’s nothing wrong with requiring kids to go outside for a few minutes each day. In particular, my elementary school kids love having that time outside. This was a great carrott for good behavior because if they didn’t act right, the lost out on outside time. Kids spend way too much time inside the school building, worse still if the are in a school without adequate natural light in the classroom.

By Ernest

September 22, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Hey Patti, I think it’s time for a new topic. I don’t want to see us have any ‘silent blogging’ time because of the recess topic… :)

By decaturparent

September 22, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Just me - OK, that tells me that you teach affluent kids, and that they have memorized the facts needed for a long enough time to get through a one time multiple choice test. That does not tell me if they will retain the information or if they have enough critical thinking skills to think their way out of the cafeteria.

Meanwhile occurances of teen self mutilation, depression, anorexia and suicides are up.

I know I will get flamed for this, but standardized test scores, particularly criterion based scores, are meaningless to me. They tell very little about whether a child can actually apply what they know in real life.

Also, your post tells me you teach high school. Are you certified to teach K-5? I believer that this blog is about elementary recess which is a different animal.

Frankly, recess would be great in high school too because they are still just kids and their brains haven’t matured fully yet. However, it’s essential in elementary and probably in middle.

Also, if I must talk about testing, FYI my school system exceeds state standards at all grade levels despite a very significant FRL percentage. Our elementaries have won state awards and have excellent CRCT scores, often scoring in the top 10. All of our elementaries have a lot of recess, sometimes twice a day depending on the teacher. So having recess must work at least as well as not having it. So why not have it?

One thing to learn from this is how No Child has warped education. All that matters are test scores… not children. Teachers, schools and students are judged on a one day poorly done (I have found many ambiguous questions, questions with two answers and questions with no correct answer on the CRCT) multiple choice test, and it is destroying effective teaching. It is understandably making teachers bitter, though corporate profits in the edu-test and edu-consult industries are doing quite nicely.

By decaturparent

September 22, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

I know, blog recess…., go outside and blog about whatever you want.

Also, I don’t know if just me is qualified to teach or not. She may be highly qualified. I just wouldn’t want her teaching my kids because they need their recess. There are many parents in this world who think recess is a waste and they would be thankful to have a teacher who agrees. It just wouldn’t work for my family - no offense.

By Patti Ghezzi

September 22, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

Ernest you are so right! Let’s talk about Sonny’s master teacher/academic coach program!

By luvs2teach

September 22, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

OK - everyone, give JustMe a break! And yes, she was being personally attacked and her professional credentials questioned because of her opinion. I say give her a break because she teaches high school - a whole different animal than elementary. I don’t recall having recess in high school, although I did have a study hall and a longer lunch period where I could eat with my friends (even go outside and smoke if I wanted - I didn’t, but boy have times changed there!). Don’t forget - high schools have pep rallies and other “breaks.” My son is allowed to eat with his friends and go outside during lunch at his HS - I’m sure it’s not much different at her school - hence the opinion - and she is right - 15 minutes of recess will not undo the hours spent watching TV or playing video games on the computer!

I am absolutely 100% pro-recess at the elementary level (and the elementary schools my children attended all had recess). Middle school is HORRIBLE! We don’t get recess like elementary, and we don’t get a less-regimented lunch like high school. Our kids aren’t even required to have PE, so they may spend over seven hours (because our school day is very close to 9:00 - 4:00, nel) sitting in academic classes. Now wonder they are nuts!

I fit in what I can - a little talk time when they first come in and are getting settled, time outside when I can plan an outside lesson (go Earth science!). I get depressed when I don’t see the sun - I can’t imagine our kids are any different.

It was some brilliant educrat somewhere that thought more seat time would equal higher scores - what these brain-trust geniuses fail to realize is that the human brain can only absorb so much info at one time (pollyanna is right about the 20 minute issue). These kids brains get FULL - like pouring more water in an already full glass, the rest is lost!

Adding ALL the suggested breaks, though, would be difficult, because JustMe is right - we don’t want longer days, and we don’t want more days - we’ve blogged those topics before - but we still have curriculum to cover and results to get.

Pollyanna - I’m a science teacher, and I would be hard-pressed to do a proper lab in 45 minutes. I wish we could do like colleges do, and have 3-45 minute lecture classes, and 1 2-3 hour lab day one a week. If you’ve spent as much time in school as you claim, then leesons as the ones you described are what you should be seeing - that is the current trend. Brain-based research, cooperative grouping, kinesthetic learning - kids aren’t sitting silently listening to a teacher lecture as much as you may think anymore.

JustMe, I’ve done both block and non-block, and the lesson planning is the same for both for me - of course I’m already doing a lot of hands-on and cooperative grouping, no matter how long my class is. I can’t speak for other subjects.

By Pollyanna

September 22, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

luvs, Since the issues addressd elementary recess I was addressing the elementary class schedule with my initial remarks, not high school.

By luvs2teach

September 22, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Sorry, Pollyanna, not only did Patti’s original post mention middle school, but you mentioned block schedule which automatically makes me think of middle and high, as I know no elementary on a block schedule. Several other people mentioned high school as well, so I didn’t think we were just talking about elementary. It’s an issue that I feel crosses all three age groups, though it’s most important for elementary.

By Pollyanna

September 22, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

luvs, Sigh….I did address middle school in one of my posts. Regarding the block schedule comment, I was responding to JustMe, giving my opinion. JustMe started nitpicking MY post and throwing in all of the HS scheduling stuff. I said I wasn’t proposing a uniform schedule of K-12, and I was thinking more about the recess that the little ones take in elementary. OK, I am outta here, it’s my BIRTHDAY weekend, and I am taking a long recess…Y’all have a great weeeknd!

By teach overseas

September 25, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Ahh- it’s so lovely to be in a small international school. We have recess 2 times a day. We have a 30 break after the first two hours of school. The teachers go to our staff room and are served tea and cookies. I come out in such a better room with a caffine and sugar buzz. Then we have a 45 minutes lunch break. During these breaks- all the kids ages 3-18 run around and scream and yell and do all kinds of silly things. We all look forward to these breaks and do better as a result of them. I’m sure it can’t be done in public school. Too bad.

By Hmm

September 28, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Recess in elementary school is important energy-releasing and/or downtime. It won’t have any affect on obesity, but the mental downtime should be required.

In Middle School, social time should be lunchroom, homeroom, clubs, phone, afterschool activities, etc. They don’t need a special “social time”. Similar to highschool.

Ga schools need to strengthen curriculum and not waste time on items such as PhysEd. This nation is way too hungup on physical accomplishments, instead of scientific, academic, or creative. Ick.