Get Schooled

By sue

August 22, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

We’ve never had a first-year teacher but I’ve found that the younger, less experienced teachers are generally more effective. They are the ones that have new techniques fresh in their minds. They are more receptive to making adjustments in their teaching style until they find what works best for the kids that they are teaching right now. They are excited about their chosen careers and haven’t faced career burnout.

The worst teacher experience that we had with a teacher that was in her 21st year of teaching. She was rigid and inflexible because she had “always done it this way.”

By JustMe

August 22, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

First year teachers can be viewed as senior teachers - we all need the parents support!!!

Teachers cannot be the “everything” for each student and so parents must support us so that the student hears a consistant message…. Do you homework. Study. Behave. Is it really so much to ask?

By Janine

August 22, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

Among the multitude of erroneous notions that NCLB supports is that experienced teachers are more to be desired than new ones. In the restructuring of the so called “failing” schools, a faculty of Master Teachers [whatever that means”]is a requirement. [However, in the recent restructurings in Dekalb, it turns out that most of the teachers are new.]Many school systems also apply the label “Master Teacher” to those with successful experience in the classroom. In fact, it’s like everything else in life…it depends. Some new teachers are excellent. Some, however, find out that one must control/manage a classroom full of children before one can teach them and find that, no matter how well they know their subject, they cannot teach effectively.

By RA

August 22, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

Okay, I’ll jump in here and likely get eaten alive: I would not want my child to have a first year teacher if she or he was young and childless. I would not mind an older, first year teacher with children of her own or some exposure in adult life to children.

There are lots of positives to first year teachers (Patti already addressed a few). But the young, new, childless,teachers my children have had did not have enough experience dealing with children to cope well with discipline in the classroom or differences in maturity, behavior and learning styles.

Over and over again on these posts the teachers I really respect say, “I try to be the teacher I want my children to have.” I think having children of one’s own or having years of experience interacting with different children in the classroom, or some other child centered setting, teaches patience and tolerance for difference.

The most emotional, impatient, and unrealistic teachers I have ever met were young, childless, females right out of school. Though, I’m sure that over time they grew to be wonderful teachers.

New teachers have to gain experience somewhere, but I always hope its not with my kids.

By decaturparent

August 22, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this

Ugh… I don’t know the answer to this one. One of my kids has a new (brand new) teacher. She seems very nice and full of energy, but I can tell that she is a little stressed out.

Our system is in pretty high demand among teachers and because we do expeditionary learning, it seems that a teacher that wasn’t willing to go the extra mile would not apply because EL requires more creativity and work. So my thoughts are that if there is a new teacher in this system she must be pretty special.

Also, she has a very experienced para so that should help.

By HS Teacher Too

August 22, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

I have taught high school for a number of years. Unfortunately for my career, I look about 10 years younger than I am. Last year I moved back to Gwinnett and taught here. I was under attack from the parents from the first day of school. My credentials, my experience, the fact that the school administration (and the students) were comfortable with me, and that the students learning in my classroom made no difference. Any minute flaw in Junior’s grade was not Junior’s fault, but mine. This happened over and over again with the same small group of parents, to the point that it was harassment (but who do I take THAT claim to?!) The school administration claimed that they supported me, but they were overruled by the County.

Still, I’m a big girl, and professional, and I knew that INSIDE my classroom things were going well. Kids were learning, and enjoying it, and that’s why I was there.

What was worse that my situation, is that I saw similar behavior toward other (truly novice) teachers, and instead of the school offering these teachers support, they punished them by giving them progressively worse teaching schedules in years two and three. It was as if to say, “we won’t sit down with you and tell you there is a problem. We won’t work to fix the problem. We’ll just try to drive you out.”

Now I agree that sometimes, teachers have chosen the wrong profession, but sometimes novice teachers simply need support. There is a very steep learning curve as a new teacher, particularly in terms of classroom management and a particular school’s culture (regarding testing, etc.).

Unfortunately, for me, I wasn’t even new — or making “new-teacher” mistakes — but I was still subjected to the same parental harassment. Unfortunately for those other teachers, they are still there, teaching classes with even more problems, and even less support.

End result? I left Gwinnett. That’s no way to treat your employees. I really lose out here, because I absolutely love teaching and I truly miss the kids. The kids lose out, too, because they have lost a good, qualified teacher, who loved her job.

By V for Vendetta

August 22, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Here’s food for thought (I’m just throwing this out, I’m not supporting or attacking it. . ) How is saying you don’t want your child to have a first year teacher and different than saying you don’t want your child to have a black teacher, or a hispanic teacher, or a white teacher? You have nothing to base your decision on except your ASSumptions, which are often wrong. Many first year teachers do a fantastic job, and should be celebrated for placing themselves willingly into a profession that is all about giving. Others do a poor job, and view teaching as a chance to work but get summers off.

The point is, you have no idea what you are getting, you cant judge someone until you know them. Many of us have had bad teachers in our lives, but you know what? We have learned from the expereince and grown from it in some manner. Life is not all about getting what you want. Imagine that. And we wonder why so many of these kids are so damned self-centered.

By jim d

August 22, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

As a student (many many moons ago) I loved new teachers. I found they brought fresh methods and concepts into the classroom. As a parent I have concerns that they may not last, or that inexpierence may hinder their teaching ability.

I believe that with regular peer reviews and close supervision new teachers will become effective “old teachers”

By Leia

August 22, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

I would rather have my kids have a first year teacher who is trying to put his/her best foot forward than to have a last year teacher who is literally counting down the days and could care less!

By fk

August 22, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

My son, a tenth grader, has had first and second year teachers as well as seasoned ones. I found that he enjoyed the newer teachers just as much as the more experienced teacher. They were enthusiastic. Their energy inspired the class. He was not hindered one bit, academically, by a teacher with limited teaching experiences. Everyone has to start somewhere. Look to the principal. If you have faith in the school administration, then you know only qualified teachers get hired.

By SET

August 22, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

I took my (summer school) high school biology class from 2 UC Berkeley Graduate Students - both female. They taught the class together and there was no other teacher involved. One was black and the other was Asian. I took photos during an end of class party and still have them.

Looking at the photos now I’d guess they were approximately 24 years old. They were gorgeous! The class was mostly 10th, 11th and 12th grade boys who all normally went to different schools across the San Francisco East Bay. We were only thrown together for this summer school program.

They were the toughest teachers I ever had in High School. While they didn’t make us line up and call them Ma’am - they ran that class like a military academy. No being late - or you’re thrown out, miss three classes including for sickness and you’re thrown out. No horseplay and no joking - they smiled but weren’t the laugh out loud type. The two of them prowled the classroom like the Nuns used to - but at the same time. They lectured and well as demonstrated. We did dissections, microscope work, essays and quizzes. We were called on in class to answer their questions.

They worked us harder than any of the regular teacher did. I think it was because of the University atmosphere they normally operated in. They didn’t try to dumb down for us. Maybe it would have been different in a regular school setting with 50 minute classes and a less select class.

It was nothing like the high school we were used to. Of course our summer school class was at least 4 hours a day continuous. These two teachers had no state credential (I believe) and had not taught high school before. We were their first. I’ll never forget them. I enjoyed the labwork but decided not to go into lab science as a major.

That was my experience with a young new teacher. It was a good one.

By OldSchool

August 22, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

For what it’s worth, the younger teachers grew up in this age of technology and are more likely to bring new ideas, technology, and innovation right along with them. They aren’t as timid about new ideas. New, young teachers energize me and keep me on my toes because I’m willing to share and to listen & learn from them.

Having said that, one of my own best ever (in 33 years) teachable moments came a couple of years ago when I trotted out an ancient filmstip projector and 1956 filmstrips. I projected them on the marker board, made them interactive with markers, and had every student totally engaged for the entire block. Worked with the rest of my classes as well. Sometimes it’s “different” that works…even for us oldsters.

By catlady

August 22, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

As a veteran teacher (year 33) I have seen quite a few REALLY GOOD 1st year teachers and a few who did not seem to know what was going on in the classroom before they went into teaching. They can GET experience, but the innate talents and skills and attitude need to be there. Anyone thinking of teaching should sub for a while and do a lot of observations. Some of the worst teachers I have ever seen were those counting down, or those experienced teachers who should never have been in the classroom and who cannot figure out what to do that they would enjoy more. So saying, when any of my children had a first year teacher I did feel a little more anxious until I saw evidence of their skill. I can only remember being disappointed once. What I worry a lot about is teachers from colleges that do a poor job preparing new teachers, and in our area we get quite a few of those! A lot of them NEVER become good teachers.

By teach overseas

August 22, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

Inwardly I cringe when I think of my first year teaching- I was full of excitment, anxiety, energy and a fresh new masters of education degree. I was confident in theory and retoric- having spent countless hours in study of “authentic assessment” and “equality in education”. Whew! I was totally unprepared for students exposing themselves in the classroom, incompetent administratrators and howling parents— like the one who demanded to know my age during a conference or the one who called me at home late at night and hinted there might be “another” way his child could get a better grade in my class.

But, first year teachers either sink or swim, and a lot of us ending up scratching our way to the other side. And first year teachers are a fact of life, like mean teachers, pregnant teachers, teachers who get married during the year, teachers who have an illness, or they have a child or parent with an illness—- somehow we all get through it.

By Jeff

August 22, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

Back around to the first year teacher discussion, eh?

I AM a first year teacher (my first calendar year ends in Dec, my first full school year ends in May). I walked in on about the worst situation imaginable with my first job AND SURVIVED. I can ALREADY tell the difference between May and August - not to mention between January and August.

Would I want a first year working with my kids? I’d look more closesly at the administration than the teacher. If the administration was like either school I’ve worked at, I wouldn’t mind at all (the two schools operate from different vantage points, but both are GREAT). If the school administration was like what I encountered at Student Teaching - both with my university and the school I was at - I would sell my house and find another job just so my child wouldn’t be subjected to that.

Also, it helps to know the deep seated motivations of the teachers. (of any experience level) Mine is simple: To prove one man right and one school wrong. I will be the BEST, and my kids will be the BEST, not because I’m truly that great. But because my desire to prove the one man right is sooooooo great, and equal to that is my desire to prove to the one school how so completely wrong they truly were.

By Concerned Teacher

August 22, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

I love first year teachers!!!They are so full of life and energy. I am in my 10th of teaching and I try to mentor the new teachers as much as possible.

By TinaTeach

August 22, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

I am a first year as well. I also teach in an elective area. My first experience with parents was during Open House. My principal warned me that I would get a lot of people dropping by to “check out” the new teacher. I am only 23, unmarried (will be married in December) and while I am not a seasoned teacher I have encountered nothing but support (to this point) from the administration, fellow teachers, and parents. My first informal evaluation was today and my department head said I only had one or two issues to deal with. Yes, my class management is not that of a 10 yr teacher, but those things come with time. Also as someone earlier said, the learning curve for new teachers is steep.

RA- As a member of generation X/Y I have grown up in what is coming to be known as one of the most accepting generations America has ever seen. We are more likely as a group to accept people with differences and we are more likely to bend our way of thinking in order to understand them. While I do agree that we as a generation tend to be short on patience I must point out that most people, teachers or not were short of patience when they were younger.

Having said all that there is also the other side of the coin to consider. Some new teachers are emotional and cannot separate themselves from their emotions and thier job. These teachers either adapt with time or leave the proffesion. A young woman I graduated with was and still is very emotional. She took a job teaching foreign language at the elementary school level and loves it. I do not believe that she would have been able to adapt at the high school level because of the amount of emotions (positive and negative) that she is prone to showing. I have to say though that a majority of the teachers that I graduated with were fairly mature (and young to boot).

To sum it up a bit. A first year teacher may not be a perfect or magnificent as seasoned teacher but as they age, they get better and better. Please remember that you were new at your job once, someone took a chance on you and perhaps you blossomed. You were a new parent once, and you learned and improved. New teachers are no different. So take a chance and you may find them to be one of the best teachers your child has ever had.

this public service announcement…….. I know it got a bit corny at the end.

By luvs2teach

August 22, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this

Parent experience - My son had a first year teacher in fourth grade - he was a male teacher who had also worked at the school subbing and in the afterschool program - he was enthusiastic and creative and my son loved him. He had a terrific year!

The next year he had a veteran teacher who challenged him to a higher level than he had done before. She was a seasoned veteran, but one who had a natural ability to connect with the kids and made teaching look effortless (she was actually one of the best teachers I have ever seen, and I had several opportunities to see her in action years before my son was her student).

In middle school, my son had a couple first year teachers that left after that one year (one was on my short list of truly terrible teachers my kids had). My daughter had one who struggled with class management when she had her, but was terrific when my son had her 4 years later. They both had the drudgery of old teachers who were burnt out and counting the days until retirement - again, less than a handful of teachers they both had were truly awful.

My point? You can’t pre-judge a teacher based on this one thing alone.

My teaching experience - I had a unique situation because I didn’t student teach. Not only was I already a parent, I had subbed, done Girls Scouts, volunteered and presented in my children’s classes, and worked in an educational, but not school setting. Iwas a lot more “fun” my first year - I had cool class pets, and I did neat drawn-out projects (videos, etc). My kids loved me, but they said I was “too nice.” As much energy and enthusiasm as I brought to the class, I can’t honestly say they I taught them well - we had fun, but did we learn? Not so sure.

I was also super-intimidated by parents, and I didn’t trust my own judgment in situations.

I’m not as much fun now - we still do cool things, but I’ve scaled it back a bit. I know more about ensuring that learning is occurring and I’m more confident with parents. Now the kids say I’m nice, but strict about certain things. I’m a better teacher than I was, and I’m sure I’ll keep improving because I really love what I do.

The fact that this is even an issue just demonstrates that we need to rethink our schools of education and teacher training.

decaturparent - offtopic - I was just reading about Expeditionary Learning yesterday, and I wanted to present it to my principal - any thoughts? How do you like it ? I know your system and schools are smaller than mine, but I am curious about it.

By Lisa B.

August 22, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this

I have seen wonderful first year teachers, and others who struggled to get a handle on the job. I have not seen a “terrible” first year teacher. When my son had a first year Reading teacher in 6th grade, she didn’t mention nightly reading assignments. My son was already in the habit of reading for a half and hour at bedtime, and though the new teacher didn’t request that until Christmas, I insisted my son keep up his reading habits. As parents, we have expectations for our kids, and instill certain study habits whether or not they are requested by teachers. Where would we be without first year teachers? I love working with them! After all, none of us knows everything, and we learn from each other.

By Jeff

August 22, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

Lisa:

I know EXACTLY what type of 6th grade teacher you’re referring to…. 5 weeks into the semester, I’m STILL finding things that the kids need to be doing that I hadn’t realized until now…. (some of it is due to the HS -> MS transition, some of it is complete naivety!)

By MMM

August 22, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

My son has a teacher teaching for the first time this year. She substituted last year and has children at the school. Don’t know her well enough to make an intellegent comment about her. My son is not as enthusiastic as he was about his teacher for K and 1st.(he had the same teacher both years.) She was new too.

By thomas

August 22, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

I would not want my child to have a first year teacher. I am an experienced educator who has worked in several schools over the years. Many of the first year teachers I have encountered struggle in the classroom, despite the fact that many try hard.

Moreover I have seen some new teachers, both young and old, come into the school arogant, thinking that they know everything. You can’t tell them anything. MANY NEW TEACHERS COME INTO THE SCHOOL WITH THEIR HEADS ALL BLOWN UP FROM THE GARBAGE AND PROPAGANDA THEY HAVE INGESTED FROM TEACHER ED SCHOOL. What’s funny is when these big head cupcakes come to real school and * GET SCHOOLED*.

They become burned out and bitter. REAL CLASSROOM TEACHING IS NO JOKE. IT’S A MUTHA and only the smart survive.

Hence, I would rather have a lady (or man) who has been in the classroom a few years, knows how to handle students, deal with these parents, has taught these lessons a couple times, and knows how to work the system. Let the “scrubs” practice on somebody’s kid.

By Taxpayer

August 23, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

My child’s kindergarten teacher was a first-year, but older than the usual college grad. She was in her mid-30s and had decided to change careers after she became a mom herself. She was wonderful — patient, smart, loving, and creative. She brought qualities that one can only fully develop through having lived a bit. We were very, very fortunate to have her.

By erin

August 24, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

I once had a new teacher when I was in sixth grade in a DeKalb County school.

She was incredibly nice but the kids in my class behaved so badly she left in tears within weeks because she had no experience controlling a class like ours. We ended up with a teacher with a baby that was always sick, so we had a substitute more often than not.

That same year, we also had a new music teacher at my school. She taught our class a song from Mexico that included the word “ole” a lot … but when she wrote it on the board, she spelled it “Olay” instead.

Other than those two cases, whether a newer teacher or a veteran one, I always had great teachers!

By Educatorx3

August 24, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

Thomas, Just curious, as an experienced educator, have you taken a first year teacher under your wing to help them be better at what they are doing? I am also an experienced educator and I always felt I owed it to those who helped me to pay it forward.

After many years (and student teachers) in the classroom, I am now one who prepares new teachers. I don’t believe I give my students “garbage and propaganda to be ingested,” but instead try, just like most classroom teachers, to prepare my students for the challenges ahead. However, there is no way, regardless of the number of hours our interns spend in K-12 classrooms, we can prepare them for everything. This is where veteran teachers come in…give the new teachers support and help.

If they appear arrogant, it could be a mask for the insecurity they are feeling. (I don’t know about you, but I still remember that first year!) Most of our fist year teachers have the enthusiasm for their jobs that many veterans have long forgotten. They come armed with content knowledge, great ideas, and effective strategies, but little experience. (how could they possibly have the benefit of experience?) Again, this is where the veteran teachers have a role…be a mentor, be a friend.

I know the faculty in my school would never lead anyone to believe that teaching is easy or to be taken lightly. We teach them content, how to plan, how to assess, how to survive, but the bitterness and burnout happens when they are in a place that offers little support. Rather than thinking it is funny when they crash and burn…maybe you could offer them the benefit of your experience.

Remember, we were once in their shoes.