Get Schooled

By jim d

August 18, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

Indeed Freshmores are living proof that NCLB is failing and that as long as we have politicans, we just ain’t going to be able to fix stupid.

By Realist

August 18, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

Time to give ‘em either a broom or a rifle…get ‘em into the army or have them cleaning up!

By Realist

August 18, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

Time to give ‘em either a broom or a rifle…get ‘em into the army or have them cleaning up!

By GW

August 18, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Check and see how many freshmores have a mother and a father living in the house with them. Then check to see how many of those parents get up daily to go to a job, setting an example of responsibility.

By Lee

August 18, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

The second paragraph says it all: “…ninth-graders who have been struggling since elementary school often cannot earn enough credits to make it to sophomore status.”

You see, the problem should have been addressed when the student was in the lower grades, but for whatever reason, was passed along by teachers and/or administration until, one day, the student is hit with reality.

The failure of NCLB is that it addresses only the symptom and not the problem. Sorta like giving the patient cough medicine when the problem is tuberculosis.

By jim d

August 18, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

Lee,

I do believe most people thought NCLB was designed to help the kids when in reality I believe it was designed to eliminate public schools. And hey, give it time it may well do it.

By OldSchool

August 18, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

Our school offers a number of remediation/tutoring options. There is even an off-campus program at our local teen center. If kids refuse to take advantage of these free programs, what can we do? Like my colleagues, I bend over backwards to help students who want the help. I’m on campus by 6:30 a.m. and don’t leave until the last student in my room leaves. I’ve even opened my lab on weekends. I have several fellow teachers who do the same.

It’s the achievers that don’t need the help or extra time that take advantage of it…not the students who are behind and would actually benefit from it.

We can’t MAKE students care enough to accept our help.

By Joy in teaching

August 18, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

Jim, “freshmores” existed LONG before NCLB came along. Society is just making it harder for them to drop out of school. For instance, if a kid drops out at 16, they loose their driver’s license unless a parent vouches for them. Also, there are lots of juvenile court judges out there who tell younguns in their courtroom that they can “either go back to school or go to jail.” The kid doesn’t have to pass or even halfway behave…just be in school. The last year I taught freshmen, I had at least 14 lovelies like that. (Makes you wonder why I don’t teach them any more, eh?)

Now that I’m teaching younger children, I feel like I can make more of a difference in teaching them the skills they need to have BEFORE getting to high school, instead of playing “catch up” like I used to.

By LHK

August 18, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

I remember the “freshmores” from my own high school years, which were in the pre-NCLB mid-90s. Sadly, a lot of them were already nearly 16 by the time they began high school… and then continued to lag behind the rest of their younger classmates.

The graduation expectations for these kids were about as low as they could go, particularly by senior year. Here were these kids who were already hurting to learn basic material, and yet by senior year they were basically given a free pass so that they’d get their diploma. “Senior English” involved writing a single term paper over the course of a semester, and “Senior Math” was basically a reteaching of Algebra 1. (Some of the teachers were very forgiving of all this, giving “senioritis” as an excuse for spending a whole year learning next to nothing.) The variance of actual college-preparedness among kids who get “college prep” diplomas is pretty amazing.

By JustMe

August 18, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

I agree with Lee and jim d!!!

First, if students where not promoted when they are not academically ready, there would be far fewer high school failures.

It is situations like what was in a recent blog - a middle school child failed the CRCT, but that administration pushed them on to high school any way. This is a freshmore in the making!

Also, I do believe that NCLB had a hidden agenda…. maybe to get rid of public schools. However, if we take the perspective to improve our schools in spite of NCLB and we do improve then their hidden agenda becomes useless.

In order to do this, schools have to improve from the 1st grade on. Do not promote students that are not academically ready - even if they are 10 feet tall and the other children are 4 feet tall! Height is not part of the CRCT test!!!! It is certainly not on the high school graduation test!!!!

By hs sped

August 18, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

jim d—-ha ha ha….fix stupid! I LOVE it!! And it’s the truth, we can try and try, but we can’t fix stupid! I’m going to share that phrase with my department. I can hear them howling now!

By jim d

August 18, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

Y’all don’t get me started on Graduation rates. The fact is that they have continued to decline for decades. NCLB has done nothing to slow the trend.

By Gwinnett Teacher

August 18, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

I have a 9th grade homeroom class. One of my homeroom students is an 18 year old! I would say that he’s no longer a freshmore, but, instead an accident waiting to happen. It unnerves me that his assigned seat is next to a little 14 year old girl. The worse part is - he spends a majority of his time (in homeroom) trying to ask her out!

Monday morning - my seating chart is changing.

By jim d

August 18, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

Justme,

I’m afraid school improvement is based on scores from the bogus tests you mention. School improvement never could nor will it ever be factually determined using these bogus tests.

By jim d

August 18, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

Gwinnett teach,

I hope you’ve taken the opportunity to explain to him that he can do serious jail time in Ga. for that.

By Lee

August 18, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Jim, I don’t see NCLB as being designed to eliminate public schools. Too much political power resides in having public schools and control over the populace. I see it as rather a reaction (got to give the illusion that we are doing something) to a symptom of a problem (schools graduating functional illiterates).

Oldschool, re “We can’t MAKE students care enough to accept our help.”

Why should they? By the time these kids get to high school, they have been turning in sub-par work and getting passed along from grade to grade. Why put forth all that extra effort when they can go play ball or hang out at the mall. Much like electricity will take the path of least resistance (Ohms Law - see, I did learn something in shop classes), so too will most humans.

I think the overriding problem is that we are pushing these kids too fast through the elementary grades and they are not mastering the basic core concepts - concepts that provide a foundation for higher grades.

By jim d

August 18, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

“Can’t fix stupid”

Plagerized from a Foxworthy bit. But feel free to use it.

By Lee

August 18, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

While I’m not a huge fan of NCLB, either, it’s worth noting that current “freshmores” were in fifth grade when NCLB was passed. Thus, the early learning problems were entrenched before NCLB even had an opportunity to address them. Also, as others have pointed out, the problem has existed for many years… although it may be greater now simply because students in most schools are required to have more units in order to graduate than they did once upon a time. (I teach in a high school that is on a Block Four schedule; our students must have 29 units to graduate.)

I have serious doubts as to whether NCLB will solve the problem, but it isn’t the cause, either.

To answer Ms. Ghezzi’s question… I have taught freshmores, and in many (if not most) cases, the problem is as much one of mindset as anything else, and it’s very difficult to remediate a mindset. A student who has given up on school for whatever reason (lack of ability, lack of family support/structure, some combination of both, etc.) is rarely likely to change after (s)he is in high school.

However, even after over 19 years of seeing these situations, I’m not prepared to send them packing at that point, either. I’d rather try to make a difference and see those students change - and eventually graduate - than to give up on them when they’re only 15 or 16. Too many people have given up on most of them already.

By jim d

August 18, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

Lee,

Let a school fail to improve—Who takes over? Let’s see, would that be the fed?

That my friend would end public education as we know it!

By SET

August 18, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

Some of these kids may be lazy and might respond to more severe supervision in an academic setting.

But does it occur to the readers that some of these kids are not intellectually equipped for 9th grade academic work and forcing them into an academic program is child abuse and rather cruel?

9th grade is age 15 - this is the point at which the upper half of the curve is graduating into abstract thought. The left side of the Bell Curve doesn’t “graduate” and stays in concrete reasoning. The further on the left side, the more concrete the reasoning. Of course they start having trouble in high school. Intellectual difference is not so important in 4th grade where the left side of the curve doesn’t stand out.

NCLB is a fantasy that all children are created equal. Intellectual equal - that is a fantasy. Some are lucky, some are head injured, some are bright and some are dull - for whatever reason, nature or nurture. Why do we torment the dull by telling them they have to learn the same things at the same time as the bright?

There are things that the Freshmores could learn to do well that would make them employable and allow them to excell. Algebra may not be one of them. Culinary skills maybe. You can be a genius in cooking which involves timing and visual skills, among other things, but not so good at writing and math.

I’d love to see what happens when public high schools develop strong vocational programs - or at least a school for the arts. Freshmores could be productive and happy if we devoped their strong suites.

By jim d

August 18, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

Lee answer this one.

2014——100%——Doable?

By Lee the Second

August 18, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

I didn’t realize until after I had posted using only my first name that there were two “Lee”s posting… the first Lee did not write the post from the high school teacher.

By Lee the Second

August 18, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

Jim, I’m not sure to which Lee you’re addressing this, but I’ll answer: no, I do not believe that 100% proficiency by 2014 (or any other year) is doable (which is one of the reasons that I’m not a huge fan of NCLB).

By Lee 1

August 18, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

Hey, there are two Lees posting here. (I should have picked a good screen name, like the “Great Oz” or something….)

Jim D, 2014 / 100%. No, it is not doable. Of course, by then, the law will have been amended so many times it will not resemble today’s version. That’s a common ploy used by Congress, pass a law with strict standards enforcable 2-3 election cycles into the future. That way, they can boast to their constituants that they are “getting tough” on the issue when in reality, it is all political smoke and mirrors.

Remember the automobile Miles per Gallon standards they set years ago…

By catlady

August 18, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Respondents are on track (hahahaha) about the pass-along mentality. I can tell you who will be freshmores of the 3-5th graders at our school. But we continue (never mind NCLB and CRCT results) to send them on because of parent howlings and because we don’t want to deal with them. The middle school does, too. It would be really great if we could have REAL, meaningful promotion requirements. Channel the kids who cannot meet them into voc ed by the time they are 8th graders so they won’t be so likely to be preying on the rest of us in obvious or less obvious ways (crime, drugs, welfare babies). I can vouch that a plumber or car-repair person, or one who knows how to properly use a chainsaw, is worth a lot!

By tracee

August 18, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this

I would bet that most of the freshmores that have struggled with school their enitre academic career is a result of them being square trying to fit into a round hole. The problem isn’t always their environment (single parents, working moms, bad neighborhoods, etc.)because what kid do you know that doesn’t want to learn at age 5, 6, 7? What happens is they don’t learn as well or as quickly in the traditional setting so they’re labeled as not wanting to learn. How sad!! They don’t know how to tell you that the methods being introduced to them are not working for them. As parents WE need to recognize that and look for other ways to help our children adjust and learn. It’s not only their academics its their psyche that’s affected. Low self esteem starts early - even in the best of families. Find what works for your child and INVEST in their future early and then maybe they’ll get a free ride for college but if not at least when they go you can almost be sure that they will succeed.

By OldSchool

August 18, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

Just for the record, down here we call ‘em Sophmen instead of Freshmores but it means the same thing: students who were too old to stay in middle school. Just can’t have an 8th grader driving to school everyday.

And to the Lee who responded to my earlier post: There is always the chance…no matter how slim…that one kid will wake up and turn himself around. It happened to one of my students and now he is preparing to become an Engineering Drawing teacher (after many years as a very successful design drafter!) My dream is that he will take my place when I retire in a year or so. Everything was in place for him to be just another statistic until one day when the “light came on” and he started giving 110% no matter how tough the challenge.

It happens…not often but it does happen. I’ll keep on providing the opportunities and hoping they will take me up on it.

By decaturparent

August 18, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Freshmores… sophmen… OK, well, why not have a class that is between freshmen and sophmores where a kid who has clearly failed their freshman year can go to get whatever they need but they won’t be harassing the 14 year old girls.

Sort of like the old concept of pre-first - except at the high school level.

By Lee 1

August 18, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this

Catlady, re “Channel the kids who cannot meet them [promotional requirements]into voc ed by the time they are 8th graders so they won’t be so likely to be preying on the rest of us in obvious or less obvious ways (crime, drugs, welfare babies).”

I disagree with your viewpoint of Vocational Education being the catch-all for those students who “can’t make it.” I think schools should have different tracks, but they shouldn’t be mutually exclusive. I also think that students in the Vocational Track should not be looked upon as inferior to the College Prep / AP track students.

I have a graduate degree in Accounting and am a CPA, but I often jokingly tell folks that I learned more from the three W’s (welding, wiring, and woodshop) than I did from the three R’s.

Also, just because you are an A/P student does not mean that you would not benefit from vocational classes. I have a woodshop at my home due to the fact that I developed a love for woodworking during high school.

When my oldest graduated college and got her first job (a high school teacher, btw), I went with her to buy a new car. I found myself having to explain to her how the dealership makes money and that 0% financing may not be such a good deal and also walk her through the lease/buy decision process.

The point is that we all have room to learn and grow and let’s be careful about labels…

By jeff

August 18, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this

Amen Lee……not everyone is made out for your traditional college. I loved auto shop all through High School and was called a greese monkey on a dailey basis. Twenty years later I laugh all the way to the bank……..

By Deb

August 18, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

What happens is they don’t learn as well or as quickly in the traditional setting so they’re labeled as not wanting to learn.

I think this is what happened to my middle child (now 21) about halfway through elementary school (maybe a little earlier). I was all in favor of holding him back and making him repeat a year, but his father and the schoolteachers were blabbering about how it would “damage his self-esteem.” My comeback to that was that it would damage his self-esteem far more if he got into high school and had to be held back a year then - which is exactly what happened!

He ended up dropping out of high school during his senior year. He was convinced to get his GED when some places wouldn’t even take a job application from him because of not having a high school diploma. He hasn’t taken college classes yet, but wants to now.

In the end, the big, bad world out there doesn’t care how you “feel” - they only care if you can do the job you’ve been hired to do.

By Teacher, Too

August 18, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

I teach middle school. The problem with holding kids back once or twice in elementary school and once in middle school becomes the age of the child. Would you want your 11 or 12-year-old in the same class as a 14-year-old (providing that child had been held back for two years)? That’s a huge difference in age and size!

And, there tends to be more behavior problems when older kids are mixed in the same classes as the younger ones. There has to be a better solution rather than repeating a grade level.

That’s one reason I am in favor of the year-round calendar. Nine weeks of instructional time, and then a three week intermission. Students who need extra help mastering material can go for intensive tutoring during the three weeks of intermission. Students who mastered the material can go on family vacations or take enrichment classes. There are many wonderful options that could be implemented.

I agree with the poster who said that children have different ability levels. NCLB does not account for this. If everyone had the same ability, then we wouldn’t have nearly the numerous problems in education we have today. Do you think someone with an IQ of 70 is going to meet the standards for NCLB? It’s ridiculous!

By teach overseas

August 18, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Congrats to all the teachers who have the guts to actually assign the earned failing grade. When I worked at a Fulton County high school, if a kid failed your class, he was reassigned back to your class to give the teacher the “opportunity to be successful” with the student. The thought of having this kid again had me changing quite a few grades to passing.

(and before jimd or anyone else starts in on a “that’s what’s wrong with our schools…. rant YOU try teaching class with 30+ kids and throw in some knuckle draggers who are pi**ed at you for failing them in the first place. This is AFTER you have endured the wrath of the principal, their parent(s) and the football coach. )

By Lisa B.

August 18, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

I know that sending kids on to middle and high school without needed skills sets most of them up for failure. However, there must be some alternative to keeping 13 and 14-year olds in elementary school with 9, 10 and 11-year-olds. Its crazy to put sexually active, drug using teens in classrooms with little kids. Alternative schools seem to be, in most cases, baby-sitting stations for problem children. Not all kids are cut out for rigorous academics. But as mentioned in several other posts, they students could learn skills which would allow them to be productive. I honestly do not believe anyone wants to be a loser! One problem I see is that education seems to be steering away from vocational areas. Even Georgia’s technical institutes have been turned into “colleges” where all students must pass core subjects before entering trade/skill courses.

By OldSchool

August 18, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

To Lee and Set (not for the same reason though) I started teaching Industrial Arts back in the day when Comprehensive High Schools were all the rage and there was “dignity in all work.” Anyone else remember the concept? Our vocational programs kept kids in school because they could see the connection between subjects… like math and construction, or physics and electro-mechanical (appliance repair et al). It’s connecting the academic areas to the real world that helps their educations stick. It makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is thinking any dunderhead can work with his hands. Not in this technological world…not anymore.

It takes smarts to succeed as a plumber, a mason, a carpenter, a cabinetmaker, a drafter. True craftsmen and women can make a lot of money plying their trades. So why are legislators and state education powers killing off programs by not funding them or updating existing ones? Success is all about SAT scores, like that makes perfect sense. 20% of today’s careers require a college degree. The other 80% require some sort of technical training. Why are we sweating the 20%? The high achieving students are always going to do just fine. Let’s focus on the needs of a real world. Kick the duds to the curb, empower the mighty middle, and give the achievers an opportunity to soar.

By JustMe

August 18, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this

Lisa B.

Here is a suggestion… If everyone was honest about what middle school students were really not ready for high school (class grades and/or CRCT scores), then I would bet that there would enough to at least create a separate class for remediation in any middle school (probably more than one class). Those kids could be whatever age in middle school until they DO learn the content and they DO pass the CRCT. If they NEVER learn the content then fine - when they turn 16 years old they are out of the school system.

This class could be taught similar to alternative schools where there is one teacher and every student has like an independent study. The teacher is only there to supply materials and answer questions individually and to grade assignments. There can even be a para assigned to help out. These students would not change classes. These students would march to the restroom and march to lunch without any privilages.

If this were done, I bet all students would bust their hump to pass the first time!

But it is certainly no solution at all to simply pass the buck (ill-prepared students) on to high schools. High schools MUST prepare students for life after high school - and that is mostly preparing them for college content. We cannot teach them 12 years of education in 4 years.

By Lee

August 18, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

OldSchool, re “So why are legislators and state education powers killing off [vocational] programs by not funding them or updating existing ones?”

I have a theory. The powers that be (i.e., the Superintendents, Curriculum Directors, et al) are sitting there with their Six Year and PHD degrees. In their mind, they judge a person’s worth based on the number of degrees they hold. Just look at the state’s teacher salary scale - more degrees = more pay.

I remember being fresh out of high school and in awe of my college professors. When I went back for my Masters in Accounting at age 35, I was not as impressed with some of these 28 year old Phd’s who had never worked outside of acadamia. In my opinion, several could not run a business if their lives depended on it.

It’s all a matter of perspective. Unfortunately, the one’s running the show all have the same, flawed perspective.

By Caring Parent

August 18, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

NCLB can’t totally be effective if, as parents, you leave it solely on the teachers to teach your child. There is a responsibility that parents must take in it as well. Like making sure that the student puts forth effort nightly to study and complete assignments. There are usually websites for homework help. Now to the person who asked whether or not there is more than one person within the home, I say that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it. I am a single parent raising THREE A/B students. I work 40+ hours a week. If you are a single parent (by choice or not) it still YOUR responsibility to be effective in that child’s educational career. The few (I mean few) teacher who are actually putting the extra effort in to assist, WAY TO GO! But there are more teachers who don’t than do. The reason a lot of children get to the Freshmore stage is because the warning signs were missed. How does a parent miss that? Progress reports are given regularly. What happen to the days when parents actually asked “What happened in school today?” “Where are your grades from Friday’s test?” And most important, “Have you completed your homework?” Most school gives each child an Agenda Booklet which outlines things done and/or needs to be done. Check it. It’s your right as a parent and a tax payer to get the most out of your school system, but remember, after the bell rings, it is your duty as parents to get involved.

By catlady

August 18, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

Lee, you are right. I did not mean to be “throwing off” on vocational programs. But I do think a child whose strength is not academic needs to learn something to make a living, knowing that if the child later blooms intellectually he is not locked into welding, or whatever. Watering down the academic curriculum has not helped. We need people who can do all kinds of things, and we need to acknowledge the worth of all kinds of jobs, not just white-collar. We should all have a Plan B.

By SET

August 18, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

Lisa B: It’s sad but young school kids are probably more likely to be sexually molested by sexually active older kids than some dirty old man.

I think I mentioned earlier that I recently watched an 18 year old get arraigned on felony sex charges and held in custody for screwing two 14 year old girls one night. He looked rather bewildered in shackles and handcuffs (Prison, what do you mean Prison?) along with more than 20 adults in custody up on various charges up to murder. I don’t know how the cat got out of the bag and he ended up being arrested. Maybe the girls didn’t approve of each other. The bedhopping goes on a lot - mothers have to go to work and kids are unsupervised. You wouldn’t believe the VD statistics around here.

By Bob

August 18, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

I taught in the 1970s and we had plenty of Freshmores then… we can’t blame this one on the politicians or NCLB.

Most of the students I had were waiting on 16 and had already decided to go to work ASAP.

By wren

August 18, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

Y’all are preaching to the choir.

yes, there is a need for voc. ed. Where would we be without mechanics, plumbers, carpenters, other skilled trades? Up a creek, that’s where.

But none of these students will be successful unless they know how to read, write and communicate.

Wren

By Sonny

August 18, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

I teach Automotive Service Technology in a high school. I can not train a non reader, can’t do math, unreadable writing and poor work ethics student to work on your 2006/7 high tech automobile. If you want this student trained to service your car get real! How well do you want your brakes fixed the next time you need service? 70%? 80%? If he/she is good with their hands train them to be surgeons. The day of the “Trade School” is over. Go back to elem/middle school and teach career awareness. Teach revelance in the 3 Rs. Stop teaching to the test. Teens quickly learn to memorize the facts without comprehension to answer the tests. Teach rigor with applied academics so students know why they have to learn this. Develop programs that utilize adult mentors to shepherd young people into the workforce. Give potential dropouts a reason to stay by making school a place to learn something worth the money instead of jump through the hoops just because you did. Take a look at what works in automotive training www.ayes.org HTH, Sonny

By OldSchool

August 18, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this

Wren, I agree that our vocational students need to know how to read, write and communicate, but can’t it be reading technical manuals and instructions, writing technical reports and change orders (maybe even a service ticket) and communicating both vocally and in writing to customers and clients? I mean, can’t their vocational training include academic areas that are meaningful and important to the industry?

I took shop and drafting classes in high school when girls were supposed to take home ec. I majored in Industrial Arts Education at Southern and was the only female in the entire division. I taught woodworking, metals, and drafting when there were one 1 or 2 other women in the state doing the same. I also studied Shakespeare, French, Calculus, Trig, marched in the band, suffered through Chemistry and still wonder to this day what good taking 2 years of required French has done me.

My dream is a charter vocational school where kids wear the uniform of the trade and their academic courses mesh seamlessly and logically with their shop class. A school where math would include the business courses related to budgeting and running a business; where language arts would include technical writing and reading manuals; where the physics of the processes and materials of the trade were emphasized; and where manners and courtesy would be taught by peer example and modeled by instructors and administrators alike. Now THERE’S a Brave New World!

By MMM

August 18, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

I have a seven and nine year old. You all are scaring me right out of the public schools in my area.

Is there ANYTHING I can do as a parent other than abandon the public system to keep my kids safe?

By Kris

August 21, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this

To MMM:

Why do you think that pulling your kids out of public schools will keep them safe? Are you going to forbid them from ever watching television or seeing movies? Are you going to tell them they can’t have any friends their own age? Are you going to keep them locked in their rooms?

I have a 14-year-old and a 17-year-old, and I catch them talking about things I would NEVER have talked about in school. All I can do is try to keep tabs on what they are doing, get to know their friends, provide a supervised place for them to hang out, and talk to them about the principles they have been raised with. Then I have to trust them to live according to those principles.

Back to the main subject, it is human nature to want to get by with the least amount of effort if you are doing something you do not care about. A lot of these freshmores are smart kids, they just get a shock when they don’t manage to slip by in enough classes to earn sophomore status. It’s a good lesson, a mini-introduction to the real world.

By Big Momma

August 21, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

I agree with “caring parent” that parent interest makes a difference. That has to start before kindergarten—get young children excited about books, sing songs, learn to play well with others, learn respect for authority figures, and talk in positive ways about starting school.

There is no way to make parents interact intelligently with their children, and that is part of the problem. Then the slacker parents get defensive when their children become poor performers.

I think parenting is the single most imortant indicator of school success. Teachers vary in effectiveness, but most are pretty good. Parental attention can overcome the occasional pitfalls of poor teaching. It’s too bad that many of the neediest kids come from poorly educated parents.

By jim d

August 21, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

“Parental attention can overcome the occasional pitfalls of poor teaching.”

Fraid not in all instances. Some teachers really shouldn’t be in the classroom, even our teachers posting to this blog will admit that. Not all teachers know how to impart their knowledge to students.

By SNY

August 21, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Jim D.,

Again you and I are on the same sheet of paper. Not all teachers can teach. They may have the knowledge inside of their head, but they have no idea how to get it out in a manner where other people, especially children can understand it.

By abc

August 21, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

SNY and jim d - And, not all parents can parent!

By jim d

August 21, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

ABC,

AGREED!!

By jim d

August 21, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

abc,

Here’s the difference.

1 teacher that can’t teach affects many students.

a parent that can’t parent affects their children.

By OldSchool

August 21, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

“1 teacher that can’t teach affects many students. A parent that can’t parent affects their children.” jim d, may I add that the parent who cannot parent affects not only their children but possibly generations to follow?

If you step back and really look at education in Georgia, it’s the bad and mediocre stuff we hear about. There is a whole lot of amazing things going on in many, many classrooms…even those with not so good teachers or disinterested students. But that doesn’t sell newspapers.

By jim d

August 21, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

You may add that if I may be allowed to add that a bad teacher may also affect future generations.

The bad things sell papers? While I agree many good things are happening in our state re: education we must remember that the bad things affect real people. So are you saying we should just turn a blind eye towards the bad?

By OldSchool

August 21, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

jim d, I would never say that. We just don’t hear about some of the good things that go on because they aren’t sensational enough.

For instance: in the past 12 months, my students have produced plans for 4 houses that are currently under construction; drawn the addition to our school’s music building which is now completed; participated in local, regional and state SkillsUSA contests; and one just completed the summer’s Governors Honors Program in Design. Where was the AJC during GHP? There were many, many Atlanta area students participating but did they make the front page?

There will always be “the bad.” How we choose to deal with “the bad” may need to vary from system to system and from student to student. We bloggers are but a tiny group voicing our opinions and likely trying to make a difference.

My daughters had a couple of “bad” teachers but their overall effect was mitigated by an overwhelming number of “good” and “outstanding” teachers. They learned from all their teachers. My girls are successfully employed and leading very happy, productive lives…because of and in spite of any teachers they had…including me.

Isn’t that what we want for all children?

By jim d

August 21, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

A sincere kudo’s to you and your students.

But had you been a less efficent teacher that failed to impart knowledge and motivation you wouldn’t be able to tell us this story and every student that wishes to learn deserves a teacher that is capable of doing what you have. Would you not agree?

By OldSchool

August 21, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

I’m not successful with every student, not by a long shot. My first year here (1975-75) was also my youngest brother’s senior year. He had a math teacher who should have retired back when I was in school. For the first week or so, Brother was content to goof off like the rest of the class while the “teacher” just sat, napped, or chatted. Soon Brother tired of it all and started to work in the math book. When he had a question, he made the teacher answer it. Brother worked through the entire book that year, graduated with honors, went to college on a full scholarship and completed his degree in 3 years.

Kids can learn in spite of the teacher and I have to believe that most (not all) kids WANT to learn…or I’ll just have to throw in the towel.

I am not what most consider to be an efficient teacher. I’m neither organized nor methodical. I do enjoy the luxury of teaching a subject I can tailor to meet the needs and interests of those who want to learn Engineering Drawing. Maybe my view is too narrow or biased to be as valid as some others.

By OldSchool

August 21, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

Oops! Make that 1975-76! (Maybe it IS time to retire!)

By OldSchool

August 21, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

jim d, heaven knows I had my share of bad teachers but for the life of me, I can’t remember them. I do remember the Senior English teacher who stayed on my back and drove me to excell, the shop teacher who trusted me enough to allow me to work in the shop alone and with any power tool I needed (not bad for a girl in the mid-1960s!) or the 7th grade teacher who convinced me that I could be a teacher too.

I’m not really convinced that bad teachers have as lasting an effect on a student who wants an education as will one really good teacher. Like I have said before, you can learn something from any teacher- good or bad. Sometimes you just need to dig deeper and find your own spark to learn.

By luvs2teach

August 21, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this

As an 8th grade teacher, I always warn my kids about the possibility of the dreaded “freshmore-sophmen” label. Until high school, they don’t have that kind of accountability - you can fail 2 (two!!!) middle school classes and still be promoted (provided you pass the CRCT) - even math and reading!

I would really like to see a more flexible arrangement - like pre-1st, 3rd and a half, pre-6th, and then give middle schoolers the ability to retake classes they failed - not being held back, per se, but being allowed to work on the stuff you need more time on, while still learning new material in areas you were fine in. Retake 6th grade math as a 7th grader instead of art (art teachers, I think you’re important, too - but kids need to master their math basics!)

jim d and Old School - I’ll split the difference in opinion - I think bad teachers are much more damaging in the lower grades, much less so in upper classes. I think parents who do a poor job of raising their children do more damage to their child, but that child often becomes a behavior problem in class, and that does negatively impact other kids - no matter how skilled the teacher. Parents need to be prepared to pick up the slack, but they should be as loud as needed if it’s too much, too often in any one teacher’s class. Inspire your kids to love reading and learning and they’ll be OK.

The worst teacher I ever had? College philosophy professor. His sin? He was BORING!!!!!!! I never took another class, although I have enjoyed reading philosphy on occasion.