Get Schooled

By holdingAJC"accountable

August 4, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

I think the single best thing a parent can do with a child that age is read to them 20-30 minutes nightly.

The second best thing a parent could do is show them who the kindergarten teacher is and say “See the nice lady? From 8 to 2 every day that lady is GOD”. Do as she says…

Case in point of trying to cram so much into a child’s head: a teacher was bragging about how her kids could count to fifty. After one did, I asked him, “Go to the table and bring me three cups.” Did not have a clue about the concept “three”. She might as well been teaching them to count in Klingon.

Read to them daily. Teach them to respect adult authority figures. The rest will take care of itself…we’ve been raising children for generations…it’s not rocket science.

By mommyto2

August 4, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

I don’t really feel pressured but i want my daughter to learn to challenge herself. she is in private three year old pre-k now and they promise reading by the end of pre-k four. we are working on letter recognition and writing right now. we have had the colors and numbers thing down for a while. we do about an hour a day of “home school” after she gets home from preschool. it is her time to show me what she has learned and for me to help.

By OldSchool

August 4, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

mommyto2: It sounds like you are doing a fine job of working with your daughter. That is like putting a foundation in when building a house- you only get one chance to put in a really good one and the structural integrity of the house depends on it. Your child’s educational success will be largely built on your interaction and reading to her. Good for you!

I frequently have former students stop by to introduce me to their babies and I always give them the same advice: Read, read, read aloud to that baby and don’t stop until they are reading to you. It doesn’t matter WHAT you read, the important thing is THAT you read. Newspapers, novels, ketchup bottles are all potential reading material. And you won’t believe what an amazing vocabulary your child will develop along with a love of reading. By simply changing the inflection and tone of your voice as you read, even the stock market reports become adventure stories or fairytales.

The saddest words I hear from my students is “I HATE reading.” They limit their world when they don’t read.

By Janine

August 4, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

I have taught all grades K-8. Some time ago, when I was teaching in elementary school, there were always a few kids who arrived already knowing how to read. A colleague and I followed a class through third grade to see if those students who arrived reading would remain ahead of their peers…We found that by third grade, no one could guess correctly who was reading when they arrived in kindergarten and who was not. I think that now there is such a race to see “how fast Little Johnny can learn letters,numbers, and reading” that a child who did not know his letters, numbers, etc. when starting kindergarten probably would have difficulty because the kindergarten curriculum now assumes that knowledge. I AM WITH “HOLDING THE AJC ACCOUNTABLE”…READ TO YOUR CHILD, TALK TO YOUR CHILD, SOCIALIZE YOUR CHILD,AND LET HIM/HER BE A CHILD!!

By Janine

August 4, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

I have taught all grades K-8. Some time ago, when I was teaching in elementary school, there were always a few kids who arrived already knowing how to read. A colleague and I followed a class through third grade to see if those students who arrived reading would remain ahead of their peers…We found that by third grade, no one could guess correctly who was reading when they arrived in kindergarten and who was not. I think that now there is such a race to see “how fast Little Johnny can learn letters,numbers, and reading” that a child who did not know his letters, numbers, etc. when starting kindergarten probably would have difficulty because the kindergarten curriculum now assumes that knowledge. I AM WITH “HOLDING THE AJC ACCOUNTABLE”…READ TO YOUR CHILD, TALK TO YOUR CHILD, SOCIALIZE YOUR CHILD,AND LET HIM/HER BE A CHILD!!

By mommyto2

August 4, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this

thanks. i was a little worried i was pushing her to hard. my concern now is for my son who is 21 months old. he has no interest in listening to mommy read or even looking at the pictures. he can only sit still for a few minutes at a time. i found some shorter books and read them to him before he goes to bed. i think my goof with him was the TV. my daughter didn’t watch TV until she was a year old. but with my son we had the cartoons on for my daughter anyways so …… oops! i hope i haven’t scared him for life or anything.

By JustMe

August 4, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

IMHO, it all depends on what/how the parents want to parent…. let me explain.

If parents do feel that education is extemely important, then they SHOULD spend 20-30 minutes per night reading to their pre-K, spend 30 minutes per night teaching numbers and math to their K, etc. Parents SHOULD work with the educators to ensure that their child is getting the appropriate attention and encouragement.

If parents do not feel that education is important, then fine, let the child play and watch TV.

The problem comes when the parents that do NOTHING for their child dumps them into the educational system and then expects miracles to happen because they pay taxes (or some other lame reason).

By Lee

August 4, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

Funny, 42 years ago, I started school in the 1st grade. Most of us were just learning our ABC’s. Small, rural town, nobody went to Kindergarten. I went on to obtain a graduate degree and my CPA, so I don’t think my education was lacking.

I also remember the articles years ago showing some 3 year old, usually Asian, reading novels, playing the piano, etc, etc.

Fast forward to today, and we have parents freaking out if their child is not reading by Kindergarten.

Probably the best thing parents can do for their child is to turn off the TV. Next best, as others have noted, is to read to them. Not only read, but make it enjoyable.

We were raising kids thousands of years before Dr Spock, Dr Phil, or whoever the expert du jour is today. I’m sure we can figure out what to do….

By Renay

August 4, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

It has been a little while since my children were preparing to enter kindergarten, but, I think that the principles I used to determine if they were ready for school still apply today. I tried to help my children be prepared to take care of themselves physically before they entered school. They were able to tie their shoes, zip their jacket, button and snap clothing, buckle a belt, follow directions, hold their own tissue and blow their own nose, etc.
If they were doing all that, then, their teachers were not having to babysit my child, they could do their job of teaching. That meant that I had done my job in preparing them to go to school to learn.

By luvs2teach

August 4, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this

I think we push WAY TOO hard in expecting that all kindergarteners will read by the end of that year - it’s not developmentally sound.

First, go back to your child development stuff, and reread Piaget’s work. The average child’s brain isn’t developmentally ready for the type of thought processing required to read and comprehend until 6 or 7. When we push kids who aren’t ready, we teach them to hate reading - not a good outcome at all.

We also have to take into consideration that all kindergarteners are not the same age. It is possible to have a child with a birthday of 9/1 and a child with a birthday of 8/31 - one day shy of a full year apart! - be in the same class. Throw in kids who start early in private school or are held out a year by concerned parents, and you will have a whole range of differences to contend with.

While I read to my children when they were younger, and taught them letters and what not, I never pushed them to read. They did very well in K and 1st - no worries there. For both, a light went on in second grade (magic age 7!!!) and they both improved by light years in ability, speed, and comprehension. My duaghter loves to read, and has a 4.0 in college. My son is to active to enjoy reading much, but he can read for information when he needs to, and he does well in school also.

As others said - read to them, talk to them. Talk about letters and make learning opportunities available to them. Don’t push them too hard; make it fun. The independent skills that Renay mentioned are probably as important.

By holdingAJC"accountable"

August 4, 2006 06:02 PM | Link to this

At age five, a child should be ready for “skill and drill” no less than seventeen hours a day. Amphetamines should help the laggards til they can function on coffee. I know this will upset some liberals who are concerned about “the well being of the child” but whose got time for such drivel…we have standards to teach and testing goals to reach!

Now let us all bow down and pray at the alter of No Child Left Behind…

By fk

August 4, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this

Social skills and maturity are for more important than academic knowledge when starting kindergarten. I think the desire to read is the most important key in getting a child motivated to learn anything. We always read to our son, and when he was able to read on his own, he did so each evening as I prepared dinner. He’s going to start the 10th grade and is yet an avid reader.

My son knew his letters at the age of 2 1/2, not because we sat down and drilled him, but because we watched “Wheel of Fortune” on TV. It is amazing how much kids absorb just through experiences.

By jim d

August 7, 2006 08:15 AM | Link to this

Exactly what has age to do with it?

Some children may be ready to read at age 4 while others may not be until later. What’s the problem? Engourage those that are ready.

By SNY

August 7, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

I’m so confused!! My daughter was so ready for school at the age of three that I placed her in private school so that she wouldn’t be bored the next year in public Pre-K, she also has a birthday of Oct. 6. She excelled and is a wonderful student, academically now. But she is also a whole year behind the rest of the class age wise. So she is not as mature. My son on the other hand just turned 3 and I am beginning to wonder about him. My mother tells me that I am comparing the two of them and that I cannot do that. She says that it is wrong but I don’t think that I do it on purpose. My son could care less about anything other than cars. So, I try to get him to bring me the “green car” or the “red car”. That he can do with no problem, but if I ask him to bring me 2 or 3 cars, he looks at me like I am speaking Spanish or something. He isn’t interested in going to the potty or learning anything. I feel like I am a terrible parent to him because I am afraid that he is going to be slow or behind. My husband and my mother said to give him time, he just turned 3 and that it will kick in pretty soon. I’m not so sure. What do you guys think or suggest. BTW, he doesn’t watch TV either, he just plays with his sister and with his CARS.

By jim d

August 7, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

Sounds like a normal 3 year old to me. But if you’re that concerned—try working with older sister in his pressence and see if it peaks his interest.

By T-Man

August 7, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

Remember that this great country is far behind other countries when it comes to acadimics. When we compare notes on what we need to do then we leave ourselves behind. At what age are asian countries teaching their kids to read. You would think if the asian countries academics are stronger, we would look at what they are doing to make their kids more successful. With that said my youngest was reading at 4. I don’t know if that is good or bad in comparison

By BlindHomer

August 7, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this

T-Man - You can look at Chinese-Americans and see the academic achievement stems from a cultural value and emphasis on education. You will also see kids that do lots of homework, work in the family business and, in general, are deprived of their childhood. They excel at getting into Stanford, but are they happy?

By catlady

August 7, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

I echo what others have said: teach your child obedience and that they are not the only person in the room with needs, turn off the TV and nintendo for the next 7 or 8 years, limit and monitor computer time, play outside, get and use a library card in the child’s name, give your child unpaid family chores from toddlerhood on, take family walks and play board games together, and bathe your child in rich, elaborated language. Not to mention, read and comment on everything from the first day of life. Invest of yourself with your child, but expect some time for the child to gainfully occupy himself.

By holdingAJC"accountable"

August 7, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

SNY: I’d recommend checking out John Rosemond on toilet training. And I recommend the entire educational establishment check out his view on discipline.

Belive it or not, he does NOT recommend that when a child physically assaults a teacher, the child be bought a special lunch to appease his anger and the teacher be reprimanded for “making him mad”.

But that is standard operating procedure in a huge number of public schools these days.

Yet I would challenge anyone who reads this blog to point out a single AJC editorial that says “teachers must be given better administrative support when it comes to the enforcement of consequences needed to maintain order”.

PS First person who can come up with a quote gets a free “teacher gift card”.

By catlady

August 7, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

I echo what others have said: teach your child obedience and that they are not the only person in the room with needs, turn off the TV and nintendo for the next 7 or 8 years, limit and monitor computer time, play outside, get and use a library card in the child’s name, give your child unpaid family chores from toddlerhood on, take family walks and play board games together, and bathe your child in rich, elaborated language. Not to mention, read and comment on everything from the first day of life. Invest of yourself with your child, but expect some time for the child to gainfully occupy himself.

Oops, I left out to teach your child, from an early age, the importance of doing something for others (fetching the elderly neighbor’s newspaper, sweeping the neighbor’s walk, helping deliver meals to shut-ins, mowing for a poor widow.)

By jim d

August 7, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

Excuse me Mr. T Man,

I seem to be a bit confused. We are lagging behind other nations in academics so they send their students to our colleges and universities for a higher education?

Please elaborate.

By BlindHomer

August 7, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

jim d - They don’t send them over here to go to Georgia’s fine middle schools, only because quality post-secondary educational opportunities are limited in many foreign countries.

By Why is school starting so early?

August 7, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

One of the reasons why American schools are lagging behind is because teachers in the United States are not given enough time to plan lessons, do adequate research on the kids, and collaborate with their peers. Additionally, teachers in the United States are expected to teach more students in more classes than just about any other teacher in the world. We also have the idea that “all children can be taught the same information,” which the rest of the world just laughs at: most other countries target the best and the brightest…and teach everyone else a skill.

The National Center for Education Statistics has documented that American teachers have far less time to spend on planning and collaborating than Japanese teachers do. Math teachers in the United States teach an average of 26 classes per week as Japanese math teachers only teach an average of 16 classes per week (US Department of Education, 2003). Darling-Hammond (1999) reports that in most U.S. elementary schools, teachers have only 8.3 minutes of preparation time for every hour they spend in the classroom while secondary teachers have approximately 13 minutes of preparation time per hour of classroom instruction (p. 32).

I truely think that the United States has some of the better educated teachers in the world. Our creativity is admirable. Just give us time to get things done instead of having us “make do” with the limited time that we do have.

Darling-Hammond, L. (1999). Target time toward teachers. Journal of Staff Development 20(2), 31-36. Retrieved July 20, 2006, from http://www.nsdc.org/library/publications/jsd/darling202.cfm

US Department of Education National Center for Education Statistics. The third international mathematics and science study. Chapter 4: Teacher’s lives. (2003.) Retrieved July 6, 2005, from http://nces.ed.gov/pubs97/timss/97198-2.asp

By jim d

August 7, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

I’m still confused.

We lag in education—yet we provide most of the worlds post secondary education—taught by college professors educated where?

By Nel

August 7, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

My eldest child was would read me the names on the classroom list in daycare when she was about 3. When she was a toddler, her babysitter would ask me why she wasn’t talking the way another child her age was. I started getting concerned, but my husband told me to “chill”. She started talking, was/is very eloquent, and now we can’t get her to shut up. My son on the other hand only knew 50% of his Dolch sight words at the end of Pre-K. We read at home and one thing I never did was do babytalk, so they always had a point of reference as to how a word should sound.

By T-Man

August 7, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

jim-d The international scores hold the truth. Our K-12 kids score lower on test than some other countries. Getting insight to what they are doing wouldn’t be a bad thing.

By holdingAJC"accountable"

August 7, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

What are other countries K-12 doing that is so much more effective? One word: D-i-s-c-i-p-l-i-n-e. Talk to teachers from other countries who are over here; they are dumbfounded by what kids get away with.

We aren’t dumbfounded by it, because as a whole, we are dumb. This is why Bush has been able to hoist NCLB on an unsuspecting public; we were too busy watching American Idol while it happened…

By Why is school starting so early?

August 7, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

T-Man: our kids test scores are coming up in math and science….slowly but surely:

—In mathematics, U.S. eighth graders score below the international average of the 41 TIMSS countries. Our students’ scores are not significantly different from those of England and Germany.

—In science, U.S. eighth graders score above the international average of 41 TIMSS countries. Our students’ scores are not significantly different from those of Canada, England, and Germany.

—In mathematics, our eighth-grade students’ standing is at about the international average in Algebra; Fractions; and Data Representation, Analysis, and Probability. We do less well in Geometry; Measurement; and Proportionality.

—In science, our eighth graders’ standing is above the international average in Earth Science, Life Science, and Environmental Issues. Our students score about average in Chemistry and Physics.

—If an international talent search were to select the top 10 percent of all students in the 41 TIMSS countries, in mathematics 5 percent of U.S. students would be included. In science 13 percent would be included.

Yes, we have a long ways to go. But, to be fair, we also educate (or at least try to) ALL kids in this country. Other countries like Japan and Germany only educate the best and the brightest. (The rest learn a trade.) Consequently, only the best and the brightest take those tests, unlike here, where the vast majority take them. The information is a bit skewed, isn’t it?

US Department of Education National Center for Education Statistics. The third international mathematics and science study. Chapter 4: Teacher’s lives. (2003.) Retrieved July 6, 2005, from http://nces.ed.gov/pubs97/timss/97198-2.asp

By Why is school starting so early?

August 7, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

holding—-where are you getting your information about discipline? From listening to people talk? I hate to tell you this, but teachers gripe all the time.

The thing is, other countries are selective about which students they allow to have an education. They test students that have an aptitude for it, and funnel the rest into either vocational training or just cut them loose and let them fend for themselves.

It is only here in the United States where we have the notion of “each child deserves an education….or at least an attempt at one.” That includes kids who are behaviourly challenged. Trust me…those same ones who show up on the news for school violence have gotten in trouble lots of times before…it just never made the news.

Teachers really do try to deal with the misbehaviours. (Jim, we aren’t all weinies.) We do have to work within the parameters we are given. We cannot go above and beyond what the law and what our school systems allow. As with adults, children are allowed due process. If teachers do see a child heading down the wrong path, we are not allowed to snatch his little hind end up and chew him out. We have to follow a strict set of guidelines involving parent contact before ever referring the child to the office. (Trust me: some parents are very adept at not returning calls.) The administration also has a set of protocols to follow as well.

It’s easy to say, “them teachers or them schools ain’t doing nothing.” But until you understand that teachers and schools can only do what the law allows us to do, you are just talking out your rear end.

By holdingAJC"accountable"

August 7, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

To “WhyIsSchool…” :Look in the AJC! Literally hundreds of thousands of discipline cases in this state alone. The only reason: Children know they can get away with it. Or else they wouldn’t do it…it’s NOT rocket science.

I’ve seen literally so many of incidents of teachers having been assaulted that I have lost count, with almost zero in the way of consequences. Read this blog and it will give you all the anecdotal evidence you will ever need.

I’ve also taught with teachers from Jamaica, England, India and other countries. They say that behavior problems are nothing compared to the US, even in classes two to four times as large.

Does anybody (except for those who openly lie on data reports required by law) even debate that discipline is completely out of control in public schools?

Are there other issues/factors? I’m sure…but until we are willing to tackle the issue-discipline-that is destroying the public schools, the rest are almost inconsequential…

By Some people have issues

August 7, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

Holding….you are absolutely right: teachers should bring assault rifles to school and just shoot the little bastards if they so much as twitch. That will show them.

By Some people have issues

August 7, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

Holding….so the AJC is now listing confidential student disciplinary records on an individual basis?

Get real. When schools have to report discipline problems to the state, some actually report ALL discipline problems that are dealt with. Some teachers send kids to the office for having GUM and those actually have to be listed as discipline problems! Not quite on the same scale as cussing a teacher out or throwing a desk at them, eh? I’ve had both happen to me, by the way. I personally filed assault charges at the student who threw the desk. The school wanted to handle it…and I told them….go ahead: I’ll file charges as well.

Also, Holding? I’ve noticed that you have yet to address that here in this country we educate EVERYONE…not just the pick of the litter as other countries do.

By fed up

August 7, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this

Why is School Starting so Early is right. Most countries in the world do laugh at our idea that a kid with an IQ of 80 should be going to college at the outside chance that they may even become a lawyer or doctor. Oh puleeeeze. The whole thing is ridiculous.

As for 5 year olds reading… that is also ridiculous. I would never push a kid that young to read or learn a single letter unless they begged me very specifically. What in the heck is the point? People drill their toddlers for their own satisfaction and bragging rights. It does nothing but rob the poor kid of his childhood.

My kids all entered kindergarten only knowing a few letters. They were read to constantly though because they love books. All three were caught up to their so-called advanced peers by December. They were all subsequently identified gifted. The only difference between them and the so called advanced kids is that mine had a real childhood.

By holdingAJC"accountable"

August 7, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

To SomePeopleHaveIssues: It’s not about severe consequences, it’s about consistent consequences. If you’ve had a chair thrown at you, you must have first hand knowledge of how far we’ve lost our way in terms of discipline. Maybe some systems are honest, but it has been documented in this very paper, that “underreporting” can and does exist.

As to your point that we teach “everyone”: Yes, I’m sure are scores are “lowered” by the fact we try to educate everyone. And why we don’t have trade schools is completely incomprehensible to me.

Point two: Since you mention having chairs thrown at you, you certainly must have some first hand experience as to how far we have lost are way when it comes to discipline.

I’m really not sure where we disagree: do you think schools are doing a good job on the discipline issue? I don’t, and I don’t think anybody really thinks so…do they?

By Getting back into the Joy of Teaching

August 8, 2006 08:25 AM | Link to this

Holding, I think that most teachers do the best they can as far as handling disciplinary problems within their classrooms. Most school administrations do the best they can as far as their school polices allow in handling dicipline.

I think the problems that you keep mentioning are referring to SOME teachers and SOME school administrators, and not ALL. It’s not ALL teachers or ALL school administrators. Granted, SOME schools do not do a good job with the discipline. Part of that problem is due to the location and the student body of the school.

Some children grow up in a crude, violent, and disrespectful environment…think that the rest of the world is the same way…and low and behold, their behaviour at school is reflective of that environment. If teachers had small classes of 5 kids, they could probably have a chance at turning around that behavior…but when you have a class of 30, you don’t have a chance in Hades of doing so…and, thus, the disciplinary issues of culture vs. having a safe learning environment arise.

Holding, I do disagree when people make blanket statements about the state of things because it shows a limited way of thinking. Personally, I think most schools do an amazing job dealing with the disciplinary issues that students present.

By Getting back into the Joy of Teaching

August 8, 2006 08:36 AM | Link to this

By the way, Holding?

How exactly do you propose to make people who are in different schools, in different systems become consistent? Isn’t that a problem that results from the human condition and not so much from schools?

By holdingAJC"accountable"

August 8, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

ToJoyofTeaching: I think teachers do a great job considering the lack of support. But I can’t imagine anyone thinking that as a whole school systems are doing a good job supporting teachers in discipline. School systems would not FLAT OUT LIE if they were.

And I know a lot about “disadvantaged kids”. The same educrats who preach “high expectations” in reality have low expectations, because high academic expectations go hand and hand with high behavior expectations.

Hundreds of thousands of incidents (a number grossly underreported). Teachers under physical assault with no consequence. Every day in every school? Of course not. But happening far too often? Is there even a debate? The numbers don’t lie, even if those who came up with them are liars. Children don’t misbevave because they are poor or come from “bad homes”. They misbehave because they KNOW they can get away with it.

By HL

August 9, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

holdingAJC”accountable” - I am reading the New - Parent Power by John Rosemond and I think he is right on. Very rational, matter of fact and I think his methods would definitely work. Same with toliet training. We are going to start early on that one.

By HL

August 9, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

holdingAJC”accountable” - I am reading the New - Parent Power by John Rosemond and I think he is right on. Very rational, matter of fact and I think his methods would definitely work. Same with toliet training. We are going to start early on that one.

By HL

August 9, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

holdingAJC”accountable” - I am reading the New - Parent Power by John Rosemond and I think he is right on. Very rational, matter of fact and I think his methods would definitely work. Same with toilet training. We are going to start early on that one.

By holdingAJC"accountable"

August 9, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

HL: Rosemond should be a must read for every school board member and school superintendant. So much common sense. People sometimes make the mistake that an advocate for discipline is draconian, but it’s not about severity, it’s about consistency.

I remember a parent telling me how she whupped her child’s behind because she “doesn’t mess around”. I asked her to consider it was the fourth time we had discussed his behavior but the first time she did something. She thinks she’s “tough”. He, on the other hand is batting .750 and wondering “why on earth did I get it this time, when I didn’t get it the other three times to teacher called?”

Consistency…Something to think about…

By Gail

August 10, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

I have two grown children and a four year old, plus a four year old grandchild. The older two did not attend any type of school until kindergarten. The younger children started pre-k on Tuesday. I think I have taught them through our playing and talking together about diffrent stuff. There were parents asking when they would receive homework. I sent my children so they would learn to follw directions from someone other then myself. Learn to get along with other children. Just the things they need to learn before receiving an education. But they are still babies and I want them to have fun and play. Not do homework. There is plenty of time for that.