Get Schooled

By catlady

July 26, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

No, I don’t expect to be called to the school for meetings because: (1)Quite a few of the on-the-line kids took the test seriously this time, (2) I suspect, in my heart of hearts, that test results are manipulated the second time to be sure fewer students fail, and (3) in my school system we find a reason to pass 99% of the kids who fail on, anyway, whether they have the minimal skills or not. It is just a sad charade.

By Janine

July 26, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

I am in total agreement with “catlady”. I indeed believe that results of the “2nd try” are manipulated…and that 99+% of students are passed regardless of grades or skills or scores… I have mentioned before on this blog that ,in my district,the administration changed all failing grades in summer school to passing after teachers had turned them in…The teachers didn’t find out until school began in August…and all complaints were ignored.

By Janine

July 26, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

I am in total agreement with “catlady”. I indeed believe that results of the “2nd try” are manipulated…and that 99+% of students are passed regardless of grades or skills or scores… I have mentioned before on this blog that ,in my district,the administration changed all failing grades in summer school to passing after teachers had turned them in…The teachers didn’t find out until school began in August…and all complaints were ignored.

By Tina

July 26, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

I agree with catlady. I taught the summer session to 3rd graders, and the majority were special ed who will be able to go on to the next grade according to their IEP. The only one in my own classroom who didn’t pass was because she finished each section in less than 20 minutes and didn’t care. She was very capable of doing the work, and I think she probably did much better after her mom made her go to summer school!

By terri

July 26, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

You’re right, catlady. NCLB testing is a sad charade. It’s a sad charade that’s costing the taxpayers megabucks and making the testing companies rich. And guess who is a life long friend of the Bush family? The McGraw family of CTB Mcgraw publishing. They are one of, if not THE, largest testing manufacturers in the country. When will people wake up and smell the coffee?

By Janine

July 26, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

I totally agree with “catlady”. I do believe that scores on the “2nd try” CRCT’s are manipulated…and in my district also, 99+% of students are passed on regardless of scores or skills . Parents don’t have to do a thing. Administors , county level and/or local school level, even change failing summer school grades to passing without the teachers’ knowledge. Can you imagine the logistics of having large numbers of students repeating a grade, Teachers would have to be moved from one grade level to another to accomodate extra students.

By terri

July 26, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

For more info on the Bush-Mcgraw connection go to- http://www.trelease-on-reading.com/whatsnu_bush-mcgraw.html

but be sure to grab a cool drink first. it’s bound to get you steaming!

By jim d

July 26, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

No Terri NCLB is not merely a charade.

It is however, another passing educational fad that will end when parents and teachers ban together to put a screatching halt to this type of abuse of our children and students.

By Janine

July 26, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

Sorry about those double posts…I got a message on screen to re-post….I did and now I see that they all got through…Again…sorry about that

By catlady

July 26, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

In saying what I did, I did not mean to take anything away from Chaz and his accomplishment. Way to go, Chaz! It is important to work hard like you have!

Someone, somewhere needs to put an end to the craziness to which schools are being subjected from every side! Quit acting like everyone is an idiot about the “collateral benefits” that accrue to companies like McGraw, to school systems that qualify for extra money as long as their scores improve but aren’t too high, and to educrats and companies that make their money “revising” programs and tests, or evaluating materials to “recommend” (meaning, you’d better buy it!) to states and systems because it is the “magic bullet” that will solve all problems. One size fits all, we know, fits no one.

Give teachers the uninterrupted time, facilities and supplies, and well-disciplined students and let them teach!

By jim d

July 26, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

I hate to say I told you so—But I did.

Anyone recall this post from when we were blogging about the number of students that had failed the CRCT?

There are several things that should have looked odd to people, but went unnoticed. Almost.

1) They changed the scaling factor’s output range this year. The official reason is because some tests were different. That’s not a legitimate reason. The sole purpose of scaled scores is so you can compare tests that change from year to year.

2) The big score drops were in the new tests. Again, it shouldn’t have happened if the tests and scoring mechanics were done correctly.

3) School administrators are facing a 20% retention rate, but they’re not the least bit concerned.

Now then. Things happen for a reason, so something explains what we’re seeing. Try this Conspiracy Theory on -

Even though the tests change each year, most - if not all - questions have been previously used; not necessarily the previous year, maybe two years ago or even in the pilots. So, there exits a statistical history which could easily be incorporated into the scaling factor to manipulate the outcome, within a reasonably accurate range.

Arithmetic score manipulation isn’t possible when you introduce a test with new questions with no statistical history - which is exactly what happened this year. The inability to intentionally manipulate the scores explains what we’re seeing.

The score range was dramatically changed to prevent comparisons to previous years.

Unable to predict/control the outcome, they took a SWAG, erring on the side of a high failure rate. Had they guessed too low and all the kids passed, there would have been long term accusations of easy testing. This way, parents will complain about summer school, then be relieved when their kids pass the re-test — which will contain questions that now have a statistical history. Come November, parents will have forgotten all about it.

If there were a real possibility of a 20% retention rate, school officials would be freaking. They aren’t because they know what’s going to happen.

By catlady

July 26, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

Thanks to terri for that link to Jim Trelease!

By Janine

July 26, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

Yes, catlady,”collateral benefits, indeed!!! Whenever we get new “stuff”, programs, curriculum,tests,[which is so often we can hardly learn how to use one before another replaces it] ..we have two responses [1] “Wonder who at the county office is driving the new BMW for purchasing this bag of nonsense”..and [2] If you hate it, never fear…it will be gone before you even get all the materials !!!

By terri

July 26, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

Hi Jim. Of course these tests and NCLB are both a passing fad and a charade. You know as well as I do that the best way to get the screeching started is to prove to folks on a PERSONAL level that they are being rooked. It’s sad commentary but it’s true. What makes me the most upset is that there are millions of Chaz’s across the country right now who are paying the price for this ignorant legislation. By the time this fad passes we are going to see a million more Chaz’s and spend untold amounts of money on it. Am I screeching loud enough yet?

By terri

July 26, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

You’re welcome, catlady. Knowledge is power. I hope everyone will read it. The article puts a whole different light on what is really going on here.

By Leia

July 26, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

jim d - I must admit - you did “told us so”!

By catlady

July 26, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

Our system sold its soul to Reading First 2 years ago. We have a Central Office admin who has staked her life on it, altho the data is inconclusive at best. Yeah, we have all kinds of stuff, but we also have teachers and students who HATE reading class. We have students who, because of the time spent in reading (more than 2 hours a day), literally have to run from one class to another, to lunch, etc. We have students who never get instruction in spelling, science, social studies. We have test scores that are not improving (before RF 20 failed the reading portion of CRCt the 1st time, 2 years after implementation of RF 43 failed it the first time). I have asked to see the research on RF methods and subgroups of students and am told there isn’t any! Yet we are told it is “research based”. Coupled with our reading series, which RF highly approves of, during which students give answers as a group to the sound of a dog clicker, and we have a nightmare scenerio! Heil, Hitler! (It seems) :-(

By terri

July 26, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

Sometimes Jim is wrong. This isn’t one of those times. You’re dead on it, buddy. We saw it on a smaller scale years ago in Gwinnett’s Gateway test. Numbers are just too easy to manipulate. Apparently voters are too.

By terri

July 26, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

catlady, did you say that STUDENTS GIVE ANSWERS AS A GROUP TO THE SOUND OF A DOG CLICKER?????? I don’t care who you are, that’s just creepy!

By jim d

July 26, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

The only time I’ve ever been wrong is when having a discussion with the wife!

However, the theory posted wasn’t mine, as I explained in the origional post, it was that of a freind, and yes I have one ;-)

By SNY

July 26, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

I just called my daughters old school to see if they got their tests back yet, (according to the same lady that gave me the wrong information last time), they haven’t. Why is Gwinnett County always last in getting information?

Gwinnett County teachers, do any of you know if your schools’ test scores are in yet?

By Gwinnett Teacher

July 26, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

SNY - the schools in my cluster have gotten the results back.

Word to the wise - don’t make blanket comments like - Why is Gwinnett County always last in getting information? unless you’ve contacted every county in Georgia!

I think your cluster hasn’t prepared their “canned” response to questioning parents yet!

By Just Wondering

July 26, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

SNY - wow, you can really dial the phone quickly! There are 159 counties in Georgia; and you were able to call each of them and ascertain that Gwinnett is the last to receive CRCT results! You are truly remarkable!

By killnclb

July 26, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

NCLB is a fad and is child abuse. It is the only legislation that I have seen that hurts all public school children equally regardless of intelligence, income, race, etc. Depending on your demographic, you are hurt using a different mechanism but you are hurt nonetheless.

Don’t get me wrong, I like our school system and I think that they are for the most part, doing the best they can to make lemonade out of NCLB lemons. But pedagogy has changed dramatically since NCLB. During the school year I see stressed out crying kindergartners almost every day when I used to see such a thing only rarely.

I see young children and teenagers with learning differences repeatedly insulted and degraded annually. Then it is made quite clear to them that they are failures. They are not failures.. they just can’t take the same type of test that a kid without disabilities can take. That’s why the are SPECIAL ed for goodness sake!

I see very high achieving children who are smart as whips hate school because it’s become so boring. I see truly engaging programs that teach children about literature, art music and history go out the door so they can do some more drilling on “reading skills.” I have seen recess all but abolished. I have watched at least a dozen fabulous, creative, innovative teachers retire or go into other careers.

This stupid law is going to ruin our country’s chances to be globally competitive, but it is going to make a few businessmen very, very rich. NAEP scores have not risen one iota as a result of this law - but McGraw is really raking it in. We are creating timid little test taking robots not the creative, innovative, risk taking adults we need to be competitive in the 21st century.

I’m very happy for Chaz, but you can be assured that the poor guy is going to be a nervous wreck come testing time next year.

Nothing will be done about this law because parents, almost by definition, are too busy raising their kids to become activists. As long as it is “other kids” (kids from poor schools) who are being hurt, parents would rather spend their time doing other things.

However as we roll toward 2014, and the Vanderlyns and Walton Highs of the world start failing AYP, you will see an uprising and this law will be thrown back to the swamp from where it came. I just wish that it would happen before we ruin a generation.

I say all of this as a Republican parent of three children, one gifted, one special ed and one just regular everyday kid. They all loved school before NCLB hit. Now they hate it.. for different reasons, but they all hate it.

By Quick Question Someone?

July 26, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Is there an online grid county by county that shows the pass/fail ratio per school like there was for the regular CRCT?

Also, Will this take some schools off the need improvement list once more people from summer school have passed?

By Patti Ghezzi

July 26, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

Quick question: No, I don’t know of such a grid. And, no, schools are placed on the Needs Improvement list based on the first administration of the test.

Patti

By Rita

July 26, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

How seriously do the parents and the various school systems take the retests? In my school system we have to write a “Level 1” plan for each student who did not pass the CRCT. As a 6th grade teacher I should not have any to write, if policies are followed, since students who did not pass in 5th grade would not go on to the 6th grade. The 6th grade teachers at my school wrote over 90 Level 1 plans last year. What’s the point?

By SNY

July 26, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Gwinnett Teacher,

Point well taken. I will definately work on that. I TRULY didn’t mean anything by it. Maybe it is just my cluster that needs better communication skills. Maybe they truly do not have them yet.

Just,

Keep your smart*ss comments about me to yourself. I was asking if any other Gwinnet County school received their tests because I truly do not trust the information from that one individual at the school that answers the phone. I would think that after my last communication with this particular person that I should double check. Last time I didn’t double check and I was accused of lying.

By SNY

July 26, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Gwinnett Teacher,

Point well taken. I will definately work on that. I TRULY didn’t mean anything by it. Maybe it is just my cluster that needs better communication skills. Maybe they truly do not have them yet.

Just,

Keep your smart*ss comments about me to yourself. I was asking if any other Gwinnet County school received their tests because I truly do not trust the information from that one individual at the school that answers the phone. I would think that after my last communication with this particular person that I should double check. Last time I didn’t double check and I was accused of lying.

By holdingAJC"accountable"

July 26, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Catlady has hit the nail on the head: It’s not “reform” it’s facade. I’ve heard of, and seen the same thing she is talking about: the kid fails the test in summer school and is “conditionally” placed in the next grade. Of course they are NEVER sent back.

I wonder if people are aware that the “passing” rate for NCLB is 100 percent by the year 2014. That means 999 kids can have a PERFECT score and one special ed kids fails and the ENTIRE school is a failure!

We aren’t trying to get schools to improve. We are trying to rig the game to make them all “fail” so that Republicans can justify vouchers.

If vouchers are to an option, lets have an HONEST discussion. They are PLENTY of things wrong with the public schools that you don’t have to destroy the educational process with NCLB to “prove” they are failing.

And THIS from a party who claims to want to “make government smaller”?

By jim d

July 26, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

The point is simply to keep keep you occupied, if they keep teachers complaining about all of the paperwork, you don’t have time to look closely at all of the excrement they are dumping on the students.

Believe me, they know your strength and have found a way to neutralize it.

By Gwinnett Teacher

July 26, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

SNY - I just know that my school’s front office secretary often is told to not give any information until she has been given a certain answer to give parents, as scripted by the principal!

By SNY

July 26, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

Kraig,

That was totally mean spirited. How could you feel that way about a child? I truly hope that you are not a teacher.

By SNY

July 26, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

Gwinnett Teacher,

Thank you for that answer. It never occured to me that the front office staff may have to go by a script. I just called and asked if the scores were in. I didn’t give my name or anything. She said no. Maybe I’ll try back the early part of next week. Do you think that will be enough time or will they send me a letter or call me and let me know.

The reason I ask is because the AP told me after they took the test that the actual test scores do not go home to the parent until the next year. Apparently they get the scores in an envelope at the beginning of the year to bring home to us. The only kids that have their scores during the summer are the ones who had to retake part of the test. With my daughter transferring out, I was just wondering if they would call me to let me know or if I still had to wait until next year (well next month).

By Gwinnett Teacher

July 26, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

SNY - I’m sure that they should have the scores available by Monday at the latest. They would have to have the scores available for those students whose promotion is dependent upon them. If students passed the first administration, the parents receive those scores in a “Friday folder” during the first couple of weeks of school.

By catlady

July 26, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this

terri, sorry for the slow post in reply. Yep, dog clickers issued to us, by way of Petsmart. Mine was given me on a pretty beaded chain, sort of like a rosary. Those of us, like you, who are horrified by this are “allowed” to clap sharply or make another sharp noise to trigger the answer from the automatons(see Pavlov). And if someone is off-task, we must stop, reprimand, and do again. We also stop if anyone is not sitting correctly and tracking (moving the finger along as they read.) Is anyone listening to this? Does anyone care? And this is for EVERY kid, K-5.

By terri

July 26, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

Kraig, You sure are hostile. Do you own McGraw-Hill stock? You know nothing about this child. I’m willing to wager that your knowledge of standardized testing is slim and your understanding of the NCLB law is as well. It sure is small of you to pick on a little kid. You apparently never got over being the bully on the playground. Maybe it’s time to grow up.

By Patti Ghezzi

July 26, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

Get Schooled readers,

I deleted “Kraig’s” offensive posts.

Patti Ghezzi

By NoLongerRepublican

July 26, 2006 06:02 PM | Link to this

I’ve been quite involved in NCLB stuff because of being on school council, and y’all need to listen to catlady. They may not be doing this in your school right now. However, when your school fails AYP for several years and is required to restructure (and it will happen to all schools by 2014), it will end up with some canned corporate cr_p like RF2, and your child too will learn to read to a dog clicker.

But all those testing companies and school reform companies will be making a mint off of their prepackaged, overprocessed, Wal-Martified garbage that they try to pass off as education.

How much of what you learned in school from multiple choice testing and scripted curriculum have you retained as an adult? How much knowledge did you retain when it was learned through an engaging, holistic project or activity? Think about it… then start writing your politicians.

The cost of implementing and dealing with this federal intrusion can’t be much less than the 6-7% pittance that the states receive from the feds in return. Tell your state legislators and school superintendent to have the courage to shove NCLB in the feds’ faces.

By Gwinnett Teacher

July 26, 2006 06:02 PM | Link to this

Patti - thank you.

By catlady

July 26, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this

Look out, everyone—My school has been fine on AYP every year (altho we have lots of poor/sp ed/Latino kids), but because of an administrator’s “vision” we hopped on this run-away train being driven by a Nazi-leaning/we-know-what-is-best-for-all philosophy. It does seem sinister to me, in terms of lack of output, kids and teachers disheartened, and in terms of money wasted (going into whose pocket?). I must also admit that I hate RF because I am required to work 2 extra weeks a year, in bits and pieces, for no pay. (Tell a high school or middle school teacher that they will do that, and watch them laugh. Of course, you also need to tell them that they get only 35 planning minutes a day also). It might be worth it if it actually worked, and produced real readers. Anyone know who owns the corporations who put out the “authorized” stuff this money goes to? I would love to know!

By SET

July 27, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this

Are there any schools who have “opted out” of NCLB - told the feds to take them off their lists and simply refured to participate?

By jim d

July 27, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

Opt out consequences.

http://www.psba.org/issues-research/nclb-optoutconsequences.asp

By HB

July 27, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this

SET, Connecticut filed suit against the U.S. over NCLB last year, but I don’t know if they’ve gone ahead and dropped out of the program. I’m not sure, but I think Utah was looking into dropping NCLB competely.

By jim d

July 27, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

Actually SET,

Several states have taken some form of action against NCLB.

Maine passed legislation prohibiting the use of state funds to implement NCLB.

Here’s an another link that you may find helpful in learning what actions different states have taken.

http://www.qualityednow.org/summaries/states/map-d_optout.php

By SET

July 27, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

It would be interesting to see what Utah does. Their state and local government is pretty integrated with the Mormon Church. That Church is quite capable of taking a long view on things. They would be expected to see where all this NCLB nonsense will lead. I would expect them to run the numbers out and decide where their people’s interests lie - and the Church/State of Utah is quite capable of taking short term losses for long term gain.

If there is going to be open defiance that’s where I would expect to see it first.

By SNY

July 27, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Jim D.,

I went to the first link that you provided us and although I didn’t understand all of the wording, I came up with the impression that if we decide to opt out of NCLB then we loose almost 60% of funding! That is absolute blackmail. It’s like they are saying “do it my way or we won’t give you your own money back to fund programs for your community.” This has to be against the law or unconstituitional or SOMETHING!! I thought I had problems with NCLB before, now I really have problems. It also helps me to understand why teachers are pushing these tests so hard. They don’t want teachers anymore, they want robot trainers.

By jim d

July 27, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

SNY,

Since the fed. only funds 7.4% of the cost of education in Georgia that 60% would only equate to 4.64% of the total cost.

Now if we drop the programs that the fed has pushed off on us as unfunded mandates I have to believe the figures would indicate we could actually save money.

I for one would certainly like to see a study on how much this would actually affect us.

By catlady

July 27, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

Jim, I could forsee other consequences (retribution) such as being dropped from other, non-education funding, such as the lunch program, or something. Perhaps students graduating from your high schools would not be eligible for federal financial aid. I am just making conjectures on the ways to punish non-compliant states…

By holdingAJC"accountable"

July 27, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

An issue with NCLB that I haven’t seen anyone address: My understanding is, by the year 2014, one hundred percent of students must pass the test or the school is a “failure”.

999 kids could be accepted into Harvard, one kid fails and the ENTIRE school is labeled a “failure”?!

How can ANYONE justify the intent and integrity of the law with that? The ONLY reason to have such a standard is to rig the game to define schools as “failures” so as to introduce vouchers.

Can anyone come up with a legitimate reason for calling a school a failure when only ONE kid fails?

By jim d

July 27, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Holding,

It will never happen.

In 2014 schools will have had a decade to have perfected manipulating the numbers.

Think about it! Its all smoke and mirrors.

By holdingAJC"accountable"

July 27, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Jim is right; it’ll never happen. Teachers even though they are a relatively spineless lot, would balk at being held “accountable” for one hundred percent passing rates.

BUT, what does it say about the intent? I mean really, did Bush not think that there aren’t enough LEGITIMATE resons to discuss vouchers, that he had to go and destroy public school education?

How does this square with the “personal responsibility” crowd, in that they want to guarantee RESULTS and not just opportunity?

Maybe, God forbid, a child failed because he EARNED it. As John Rosemond says, the biggest mistake we make with children is saving them from the headlights of an oncoming train when they are children (and the consequences are relatively minor) and thus not preparing them for the serious consequences that may happen as an adult.

Sounds pretty “conservative” to me. If you think about it, NCLB with its goal of guaranteed RESULTS sound positively “liberal”.

By holdingAJC"accountable"

July 27, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

Jim is right; it’ll never happen. Teachers even though they are a relatively spineless lot, would balk at being held “accountable” for one hundred percent passing rates.

BUT, what does it say about the intent? I mean really, did Bush not think that there aren’t enough LEGITIMATE resons to discuss vouchers, that he had to go and destroy public school education?

How does this square with the “personal responsibility” crowd, in that they want to guarantee RESULTS and not just opportunity?

Maybe, God forbid, a child failed because he EARNED it. As John Rosemond says, the biggest mistake we make with children is saving them from the headlights of an oncoming train when they are children (and the consequences are relatively minor) and thus not preparing them for the serious consequences that may happen as an adult.

Sounds pretty “conservative” to me. If you think about it, NCLB with its goal of guaranteed RESULTS sound positively “liberal”.

By DB

July 27, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

When 100% pass anything, I would conclude that the program responsible must have fail 100%. If any school ever gets 100%, either the test is impossible to fail, or the schools is plain out lying. Heck, if 100% is ever reached, then there would be even less motivation to improve, and that’s scary. I think schools should take a stand and operate without NCLB(No Child Left Blame) funding. It’s absolutely clear to me that money is not the thing holding schools back.

By SNY

July 27, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

I may be all for vouchers but not if it means that I get what I want at the expense of all of the other children. Wanting vouchers is just my personal opinion. There is no such thing as 100% of anything. Why should the school system be any different? If a child does not do his/her homework and they fail, then they should have to live with that. Not everyone cares about school or wants to go to school. Heck, (because I can’t use the other word) everyone is not going to be equal in this society. We are all equal as human beings, yes. But that doesn’t mean that we all are going to have the same learning ability!! Everybody can’t be the CEO of a company or the Mayor of a city. It takes all kinds of people to run this country.

Catlady,

You are so on point. Until someone actually opts out of NCLB, we will not know the exact consequences that we are bound to face. It is actually kind of scary when you think about it, isn’t it?

By DB

July 27, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

If you ever get 100% of a school to pass anything, you’ve got problems of low expectations and high dihonesty. NCLB(No Child Left Blame) is such a joke. I wish more(actually all) schools would take a stand and just do without NCLB funding. We all know lack of money is not the problem in schools today. It’s lack of school discipline and student motivation, period. No kid is left accountable for his or her actions, and that’s the problem in our society. If a kid fails, everone else, other than the kid, is held accountable. It’s no wonder we’re in this situation where kids are absolutely stupid on average. The more we bicker about this program or that program, the more we’re wasting our time denying the real issues previously mentioned. My kids attend a school where the administration and teachers are totally in control. Kids fail, kids struggle, kids get a real consequence when they misbehave, and kids get kicked out if they consistently fail or misbehave. Kids LEARN a great deal about life under those circumstances. And they are much more mature and ready for the future. They learn that life is not fair and that you get out of life what you put into it.

Public schools, on the other hand, are only concerned with appeasement and hurt kids by making them think life is fair and that the world revolves around them. Public schools underestimate kids and drop to the lowest common denominator. With all the wars going on and the “lazy” generation we’ve created, we’re in for a serious change in our way of life.

Of course, my kids learn because they’re in private school. It’s just sad that public schools aren’t the same. We don’t necessarily need our kids to come out of high school with a bachelors degree in knowledge, but we do need our kids coming out of high school knowing they will fail in life if they don’t work hard. And they need to know that they are in control of their destiny based mostly on their life choices. We are totally letting our kids down in that respect.

By DB

July 27, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

If you ever get 100% of a school to pass anything, you’ve got problems of low expectations and high dihonesty. NCLB(No Child Left Blame) is such a joke. I wish more(actually all) schools would take a stand and just do without NCLB funding. We all know lack of money is not the problem in schools today. It’s lack of school discipline and student motivation, period. No kid is left accountable for his or her actions, and that’s the problem in our society. If a kid fails, everone else, other than the kid, is held accountable. It’s no wonder we’re in this situation where kids are absolutely stupid on average. The more we bicker about this program or that program, the more we’re wasting our time denying the real issues previously mentioned. My kids attend a school where the administration and teachers are totally in control. Kids fail, kids struggle, kids get a real consequence when they misbehave, and kids get kicked out if they consistently fail or misbehave. Kids LEARN a great deal about life under those circumstances. And they are much more mature and ready for the future. They learn that life is not fair and that you get out of life what you put into it.

Public schools, on the other hand, are only concerned with appeasement and hurt kids by making them think life is fair and that the world revolves around them. Public schools underestimate kids and drop to the lowest common denominator. With all the wars going on and the “lazy” generation we’ve created, we’re in for a serious change in our way of life.

Of course, my kids learn because they’re in private school. It’s just sad that public schools aren’t the same. We don’t necessarily need our kids to come out of high school with a bachelors degree in knowledge, but we do need our kids coming out of high school knowing they will fail in life if they don’t work hard. And they need to know that they are in control of their destiny based mostly on their life choices. We are totally letting our kids down in that respect.

By decaturparent

July 27, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

You want NCLB to go away? Start doing something other than talking about it. Even something as small as buying an anti-nclb t-shirt of bumper sticker will get the ball rolling. I have had some great conversations and had a chance to educate a bunch of people just by having an anti-NCLB bumper sticker on my car.

Most people just don’t have the slightest understanding about what NCLB requires. Once you tell them, their eyes bug out and they think it’s nuts.

All it’s going to take is a little education. Google NCLB t-shirts or bumper stickers and you will get some sites that sell them or you can make your own on one of those make your own bumper sticker sites. Susan O’hanian also has a good site with articles about NCLB. Check it out and learn all you can.

By decaturparent

July 27, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

Boy, I’m full of typos today! BTW, the website is susanohanian.org. A little propaganda-ish - but it does have a lot of info.

By holdingAJC"accountable"

July 27, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

I think teachers should adopt a slogan a la` “Give me liberty or give me death”.

For teachers it should be “No Accountability Without Authority”.

The authority to set rules and enforce consequences, and have those consequences backed up to the hilt by school administrators.

Teachers have been so battered (in many cases LITERALLY, with no consequences to the student) that they have a collective case of Stockholm Syndrome.

If teachers are going to be held accountable for teaching, then they ought to be able to actually TEACH, not “manage” chronically disruptive students.

Would we hold cops “accountable” for the crime rate, if judges, as a matter of course let suspects who are GUILTY go scot free? So why do we expect it of teachers?

And why do teachers tolerate it?

By holdingAJC"accountable"

July 27, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this

I think teachers should adopt a slogan a la` “Give me liberty or give me death”.

For teachers it should be “No Accountability Without Authority”.

The authority to set rules and enforce consequences, and have those consequences backed up to the hilt by school administrators.

Teachers have been so battered (in many cases LITERALLY, with no consequences to the student) that they have a collective case of Stockholm Syndrome.

If teachers are going to be held accountable for teaching, then they ought to be able to actually TEACH, not “manage” chronically disruptive students.

Would we hold cops “accountable” for the crime rate, if judges, as a matter of course let suspects who are GUILTY go scot free? So why do we expect it of teachers?

And why do teachers tolerate it?

By Lisa B.

July 27, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

Seventy-five percent of our summer-school 5th and 8th graders passed the CRCT Reading retest. The person in charge told our teachers that when we teach correctly, the students achieve. Wait a second. The students (10 per class)had reading instruction four hours per day, for 20 days. That equals 80 hours of reading instruction. During the year, we teach reading one hour per day, with 25-28 kids, and it takes us 80 DAYS to add up to 80 hours of instruction. Basically, the 5th and 8th grade children who passed the CRCT on the retest, did so after the equivalent of 260 days of reading instruction (at one hour per subject per day). Lots of kids need far more than 180 days of school. Most schools in western nations provide at least 200 days of instruction for students.

By decaturparent

July 27, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

Lisa B. - I agree that some children need extra instuction. However, there are also a bunch of kids who could learn the whole 180 days work in about 90 days. It’s bad enough that they have to sit around bored while the bottom 25% get proficient. Let the kids who fail take the extra schooling in the summer because they clearly need it.

However, the kids who come to school prepared and who achieve in the top 25% already suffer enough. To require them to sit an extra 20 days bored to tears just because a group of kids cannot or will not learn the curriculum isn’t fair. The top 25% need to spend their summers challenging themselves and growing in different ways.

Summer school seems to be a perfect way to meet the needs of both types of kids. The kids who need more days in school get it, and the kids who do not either because they are smart enough or because they busted their butts all year get a break.

Plus avoiding summer school is a great incentive to get some kids to buckle down and apply themselves during the school year.

By SET

July 28, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

The reasons that a voucher system must be prevented is that with the voucher money will come the control and distructive policies that so far have not completely destroyed the private school system - as it has the public school system.

Smart money will recognize any proposed voucher system as a stealth takeover of private schools by the state.

The public schools are addicted to state and federal money to the point that they have thrown away the futures of the lower class students. NCLB for example.

Brave New World.

By catlady

July 28, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

Lisa, even with the summer school instruction, I don’t believe the majority of the kids got enough growth in reading skills to explain their passing. (and isn’t it sly to say that “when we teach correctly”—what a horrible slam!) What I would like to do, subversive as I am, is to privately grade a few of the students’ spring tests to see how many they got right, then grade their summer tests to see if they improved much. Of course, I would like to take time to evaluate the difficulty of the test, too. I suspect we would find that, as jim said, the test questions the second time around are markedly easier, or that the cut score or standard score was “adjusted” (manipulated) the second time around. Unfortunately, we are not allowed to examine the children’s tests and do an unofficial grading at penalty of losing our teaching certificate (nifty, isn’t it?) I am told by teachers who do the retest that it is easier, but I would like to see it for myself.

And as for the comment about teaching correctly, I would be sorely tempted to smack someone in the face who would say that to me! With RF I am literally tap-dancing at warp speed for 2 hours and 15 minutes a day! I am doing what they have decided is “research based” and approved by the feds. AAUUGGHH!!!

By Ludwig

July 28, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

SET,

My only issue with vouchers is that I forsee the creation of yet another Bureaucracy to handle it. Knowing that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing leads me to the conclusion that nothing positive would come from it.

By jim d

July 28, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

Cat,

And that dear lady is exactly why the tests are held in secret.

“They are flawed”

Well either that or my labeled gifted child has become noticeably dumber this year.

By Laf

July 28, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

a Heart of Stone.

By Lisa B.

July 28, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

I love “No Accountability Without Authority.” I am ordering a magnet for my car. Thanks for the idea!