Get Schooled

By Kage

July 5, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

I’ve never met a TFA teacher, but I do read some blogs by TFA teachers. For the most part, they seem dedicated. Sometimes I get a bit bent out of shape reading their posts. It sounds like TFA paints all public school teachers as having low expectations for minority students, that TFA teachers will save everyone from this evil.

I have definitely met some teachers who have low expectations for all of their students and even lower ones for the minority students. I try to compensate by sharing what my students are capable of because I expect it from them- so it kind of burns to hear TFA’s generalization that all of us expect so little from the kids. Again, though, I have no direct link to TFA - this is just the impression I get from reading TFA teachers’ blogs.

I think that TFA teachers could be great in public schools. It would be critical that they have strong mentors, though. They come in with creative ideas and strong content knowledge, but no knowledge of classroom management. Management includes, but goes beyond, discipline. Good classroom management is ensuring that your classroom is a place where every child can learn. Because TFA-ers will not have culled different styles of management from a variety of teachers, as those who go the traditional route do, they will need a strong mentor to share ideas with and get tips from.

By Kage

July 5, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

One more thing…

I just finished an excellent book by Leslie Baldacci called Inside Mrs. B’s Classroom: Courage, Hope, and Learning on Chicago’s South Side. Baldacci was a reporter for the Chicago Sun Times for 25 years, then quit to teach in a public school classroom via Teachers for Chicago. (Getting any ideas, Patti?)

It was affirming to read about how incredibly difficult she found teaching to be and inspiring to read about how she survived it. What stood out to me was that when she complained, she complained like any other traditional teacher: it was never about the kids, it was always about the red tape and bureaucracy that suffocate educators.

Sometimes it seems that veteran teachers have been stomped down by it. They, too, have had creative ideas and innovative programs, but after being shut down so many times, you run out of energy to fight it. Not true of all veterans, of course. I’ve met many who pilot innovative projects. They tend to be known as rabblerousers, but they are accepted in the system.

Baldacci spoke to this phenomenon in her book: “Veteran teachers knew the drill. It’s infinitely easier to say ‘no’ or ‘we can’t do that’ or ‘you can’t do that’ than it is to go forward with new programs, to support new ideas or personal initiative. That is why teaching, while it attracts creative people, also frustrates them.”

I can definitely relate to that sentiment. You have to have the commitment not to allow your energy and creativity to be tamped down by naysayers. And pray that in 20 years you haven’t become a naysayer yourself.

By SET

July 5, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

I love these programs that try to send upper class people into contact with ghetto people.

TFA puts the graduates in touch with the public schools of America. A good field day. They can watch the systematic distruction of American Youth by applied political correctness. They won’t stay and they won’t last. But they will learn.

The universities nowadays fill the students with politically correct garbage - but at the same time they (as educated people) have been exposed to books such as Banfield’s “The Unheavenly City” which was required reading at UC Berkeley in a Sociology class I took - and books by Thomas Sowell, John McWhorter, and basic things such as “The Bell Curve” by Charles Murray and Richard Hermstein. These are all college level readings so the non-educated will not have covered them. Eventually the TFA teachers are forced to discard the politically correct verbage they had as lectures and begin to follow the research literature they’ve been exposed to.

And their presence will teach those public school students who do pay attention things about going to University directly from High School. They can answer questions about college life and the application process. Things the parents don’t know or only have stale info on. Some students might find it easier to go on in education after spending time with the TFA teachers.

It’s a good program. It would be interesting to read stories of the inevitable conflits between the TFA teachers who do have other prospects in life so they can afford to speak out about things at the school that should be changed, and the teachers and administrators who want to maintain the status quo.

By Lisa B.

July 5, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

I teach in a rural school system where it is difficult, and sometimes impossible to find high school science and foreign language teachers. Every year my system hires a few TFA and other alternately certified teachers. So far, none that I know of have returned a second year, though a few did complete their first year. One poor biologist walked out after the first week! A computer programmer made it until Christmas Break. Some of the TFA teachers leave on their own, some are not offered another contract. A few were hired provisionally and were never able to pass the Praxis II (the test required to get certified). A neighboring county hires substitutes to teach high school chemistry, because they can’t even find a TFA teacher! If rural classrooms run these teachers off, I wonder how they survive teaching in inner-city schools. However, I do recall that my sister has an aquaintance in Columbus who left a computer programming job to teach 6th grade math, and just successfully finished her second year. I am sure some TFA teachers succeed. I look forward to hearing from other bloggers on this topic.

By Pro-TFA

July 5, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

It think it is interesting that the term “unqualified” is used. TFA corps members are college graduates. They have mastery of the content they are going to be teaching. The five week institutes TFA conducts around the country put heavy emphasis on classroom management, including making classrooms places where learning occurs.

As a graduate of an education program, I can say that I did not receive NEARLY enough classroom management training. I imagine if you add up the total amount of time spent explicitly teaching classroom management in a pre-service teaching program you would end up with fewer hours than TFA requires during the summer.

Fortunately, in my opinion SET, TFA doesn’t push a “Learning Curve” agenda. TFA emphasizes that hard-work is the key to success. Their mission is to give quality education to all students because everyone, regardless of race or ethnicity, can and will achieve if given opportunities. TFA teachers are pushed to show 1.5-2 years of growth is all students at the end of the school year. I can say from personal experience that this IS possible, having taught at a school that was 99% African-American and 97% free and reduced lunch.

By thomas

July 5, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

Personally I think the whole concept of Teach for America, TAPP, etc. is disgusting and insulting. First of all, why is it OK take these people, who have NEVER been in an education program, never did student teaching, and have no training, and put them in the classroom, as a regular teacher, at full pay? Without the proper training and experience, you are bound to fail as an effective teacher.

Second, that pompous, arrogant, do-gooder garbage espoused by TFA and the schools of education is just that- garbage. I can understand having an optimistic attitude is a good one to impart on newly trained teachers, but these organizations are not equipping its charges with real life, realistic expectations, and knowledge to be successful in a real classroom. 90% of all new teachers don’t have a clue as to what to do in a real classroom. The only thing that saved me when I became a teacher was the fact that I student taught in a real life situation. I had the opportunity to learn a few things and I wasn’t completely exposed to the wolves. AND I STILL HAD A LOT TO LEARN.

These TFA and TAPP people aren’t getting any meaningful training beforehand and are set off into some of the WORST schools and classrooms. Neither the teacher or students benefit from this experience.

But not only are these people “scrubs” who don’t know a TE from a curriculum guide, they actually have the audacity to make these people full teachers, with full pay. People who are not certified and have no training and experience. I went to college for 3 years, paid thousands of dollars in tuition, took and passed two teachers exams, and did 16 weeks of student teaching, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for * absolutely NO PAY WHATSOEVER* to earn the privilege of setting foot into one of these classrooms. And I have to look at a “tired of working a regular job”, “want to try something new”, no-nothing scrub get a job who didn’t earn it. And the bad part about it— these jerks ain’t gonna last NO TIME!!!!

This is the biggest reason why I hate TFA and TAPP. The people don’t last. They don’t make a career of teaching. I am not saying that you need to make a career out of this (I probably won’t spend 30 years teaching), but it is a fact that it take several years to become a decent teacher. It is counterproductive to have a large turnover of staff. Research has shown this to be true. It is unfair to subject children to somebody who wants to play teacher. School is not a game— it is serious business. People’s lives are at stake here. A bad school experience can ruin ya.

By SET

July 5, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

Thomas and Pro-TFA::

I think you both have valid points. But this is a political decision. It has been decided that the school as a political entity will benefit from FTA. Do I think the kids will benefit? Probably. I don’t believe it can hurt and may help for the kids to be exposed to recent University Grads - people younger than the typical teacher. For better or worse.

I had a somewhat similar experience by going (every summer of High School) to the Summer School put on by UC Berkeley and staffed with Grad students. Young, Smart, Tough, attractive female grad students!! Compared to them the regular teachers were like our parents!

In my regular High School I had one teacher that was only there for a year or two, applied for law school and was accepted and left. The students got to see her go through the application and admission experience - she told us all about it as it unfolded. What the requirements were, studying for the LSAT, waiting for the test results, deciding where to apply, making a budget - all that. Don’t know if that made me go to law school but I always thought is she could do it, I could also.

But the final decision is not what’s good for the kids or the teachers, it’s what is good for the administration and the school politically. Maybe they think the TFA teachers will intimidate the regular teachers and their unions? Maybe they just want to try something new or get a different viewpoint?

By GOB

July 5, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

And I have to look at a “tired of working a regular job”, “want to try something new”, no-nothing scrub get a job who didn’t earn it. And the bad part about it— these jerks ain’t gonna last NO TIME!!!!

This line is a ringing endorsement for going through a full education program. Well done, sir.

90% of all new teachers don’t have a clue as to what to do in a real classroom.

If this statement is true, then there isnt much difference in the prep for a “regular” teacher and a TAPP or TFA teacher.

To your point about them being paid full salaries, keep in mind that almost everyone in one of these programs is taking a rather substaintial cut in pay.

By Jeff

July 5, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

OK, so that last from thomas really BURNS ME UP, and most of you know part of the reason.

Thomas, just so you know: I AM one of those teachers that didn’t do student teaching. I attempted it, but the teacher I was assigned to was the sorriest excuse for a teacher I have ever seen! She basically had me teach HER plans and wouldn’t let me deviate from what SHE did AT ALL. When she found out about my conservativeness (see my posts on Mr. Wooten’s blog or even other topics here at Get Schooled), she had me canned 72 hours later. And you call THAT “professional”?

Diatribe over, back to topic:

I have a friend that is a TFA teacher up in Philly. Well, she was. She just completed her second year, Guess what though? The same chica that back in the summer of 2004 told me that she was just gonna put in her two years is working on her Master’s… in EDUCATION! She’s staying in! I was laughing at her when she told me. You see, back in the day, I was the one that was going to be a teacher. SHE was going to get some kind of job in government or business and have a lot of influence. I was going to go the traditional route and become a teacher. Even then I told her that we would both come out about the same, though I woudl have the edge due to my formal training in such topics as EXC, Adolescent Development, and Classroom Management.

How wrong I was. We came out bascially dead even in every respect. Looking at her forst 6 months and mine, we pretty much had identical experiences. The “formal education training” that Thomas speaks of is -by and large - just a bunch of political indoctrination. The REAL change comes from those like me, the TFAers, the TAPPers, and all the other “unconventionals”. You see, with us, we KNOW that we can get a job in our degree fiekd with FAR less difficulty than finding one in education. We KNOW that we can be mavericks, because we have that safety net. Therefore we aren’t afraid to take risks and try new things. If it works, excellent, let’s keep doing it. If it doesn’t, we can scrap it and try something else. Veteran teachers - particualrly those with families to support - don’t have that luxury. And mayber they’re jealous of us because of it?

Anyways: Long post short: TFA is a great program, and I would consider it an HONOR to work along side one of its participants.

The ONLY problem I have with TFA is this: I applied the same year my friend in Philly did. We went through the same selection process, even down through the interviews. She was selected and I was not. When she went to her training camp, she noticed something that she later pointed out to me: you could count on one hand the number of white males that had been accepted. Matter of fact, she actually told me: You are the better qualified teacher. Yet the MAIN reason they didn’t accept you is because you’re a white man. They want minorities, and particularly black men.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

July 5, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

What a joke TFA versus regular educator? There isn’t much difference in a TFA teacher and any new “teacher” with a teaching certificate. I use to laugh my freshmen and sophomore year of college at the number of students in my major who switched to education, because it was easier to get a degree. Don’t insult those people who go through the TFA program, because they are just as qualified as the rest.

Jeff, you can find a job at any school - so don’t make it a black man versus white man thing with this program. It is a fact, that there is a shortage of black male teachers and they are truly, truly needed in most urban school systems.

Don’t get me wrong Jeff, I would like to find more of “both”, white and black male teachers. However, the shortage of black males is much more alarming to me.

The sad thing is, there is a shortage of black males everywhere I go: Church, School, Corporate America, grocery store, etc… The only place there is not a shortage is at the NightClub on Weekends and in jail.

By Nja

July 5, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

From my understanding schools try to find men- period! Teaching continues to be a mostly female profession. I’m not trying to be mean but maybe they just didn’t like you or maybe you just weren’t a good fit.

By Jeff

July 5, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

Amazed:

Only noting what I have both seen in my personal interaction with TFA and what a friend - who happens to be a Corps member - has told me.

By Nikole

July 5, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

Thomas- TFA teachers do not get full pay. They get the pay of an uncertified teacher in that district. I think a good number of them leave after their required time, but some are EXCELLENT teachers.

By luvs2teach

July 5, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

I had read the article even before the blog topic was posted because, as an alternatively certified teacher, I was curious about the TFA program.

I graduated with a BS in science and after some time in the private sector, I decided to try teaching. I brought with me experience as a parent, a Girl Scout leader, and a PTA volunteer. I regularly went into my children’s elementary classrooms to do science experiments with them - their teachers were always acommodating and grateful for the help.

I was hired on a provisional certificate (and not at full pay - no step raises either, until you are fully certified, unless you have a Master’s). Like other new teachers, I was assigned a mentor teacher and had additional required staff development classes and seminars. Most of these were helpful to a greater or lesser degree. Because I was already hired, I was not eligible for the TAPP program, but I went through the Georgia Responds program at the State University of West Georgia. There you took a variety of education classes (some at the graduate level), and did a year-long internship, in lieu of student teaching. During the first semester of internship, you have a couple observations/evaluations, and during the second half, you have evaluations and participate in a seminar class.

I found the internship, particularly the second half with the seminar, to be very helpful, and probably more beneficial to my training than traditional student teaching. As Jeff alluded to it, traditional student teaching involves steping into the shoes of another teacher for a period of time. While you may (and should) create your own lesson plans, you are using their methods of classroom discipline (already established in advance). This is a major reason why so many traditonal new teachers have such a hard time in that area and someone like Harry Wong (author of The First Year of Teaching) exists.

I can honestly say that I am a much better teacher now than I was then - experience is the best teacher. The critical question is, how can we give new teachers their much needed experience but not at the expense of their students?

The problem with a lot of “tough” schools is turn over - new teachers “cut their teeth” at the tough schoool, and then transfer to greener pastures - leaving the space to be filled with yet another greenhorn. I think that programs like TFA, TAPP, GAResponds are a good band-aid, but don’t fix the real problem. Strong mentor programs for new teachers help increase retention.

I also think that ed prep programs should be overhauled - instead of a poverty-ridden semester of student teaching, ed majors should have a supported first year - a good mentor program at the local school, coupled with an observation program and support seminar from the college.

By Jeff

July 5, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

luvs,

I LOVE you idea about overhauling Student Teaching.

The biggest hole? Colleges won’t do it. Then the problem of first0years becomes THEIR problem of having students drop out of Ed programs LITERALLY in their last semester….

By luvs2teach

July 5, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

Jeff - colleges would think twice if their graduates weren’t going to be hired unless they went through that type of program - so make it part of their certification - or have a bilevel certificate - apprentice teacher and teacher - you don’t get to lose the apprentice title without going through that final year.

What do you think?

BTW - best of luck in S. GA!

By Jeff

July 5, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

Sounds like a plan to me! Now if only we can get it pushed through the State Board….

By SET

July 5, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this

That Black Male shortage is a real problem - if you make it your problem.

As far as I’m concerned we can take the black schools and fill them with Irish teachers. And transfer every black teacher to Chinatown.

If you’re running a public school the first thing you make clear to the kids and to their parents is that this isn’t Burger King. We’re running this school to accomplish the mission statement of the school district which is usually something about improving test scores and college admission rates or whatever. It’s nice if you are happy but it’s purely optional.

Besides, there aren’t enough qualified Black Males to go around and those that you can find get stolen. Better to make do with what is available and not put up with any demands for substitutions.

By MMM

July 10, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

This blog should also consider the bigger topic of whether certification is NECESSARY for good teaching.

We spend more of our time on the fact that certification is not SUFFICIENT to guarentee a good teacher (although administration generally refuses to deal with the bad ones.) One of the reasons is the shortage.

Some of my kid’s teachers have been certified, some haven’t—-but some of the ones that haven’t were better teachers.

By jim d

July 10, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

Certification merely means one has taken and passed a course. It in no way means one can teach.

By OldSchool

July 10, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

There are many T&I (Trade and Industry) instructors who were hired out of industry to teach in our high schools. These highly skilled folks go through an intense program to teach them the paperwork parts of the classroom. Valdosta State University’s New Teacher Institute is a very successful program and the 3 instructors in my department have become excellent teachers in Metals, Auto Service, and Construction. One has now completed his Masters and the other two have taken additional college classes. As for myself, the education courses I had in college were okay as far as prepping me to teach but my industry experience has served me extremely well in preparing my students for the world of work.

Certification is a good thing but not the only thing that makes a good teacher. There needs to be expertise in the field, the personality and humor to deal with students, parents and administrators, and the willingness to continue learning and growing.