Get Schooled

By Frankson

June 26, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

Summer school isn’t going to make my kid any smarter, but at least I can send him somewhere and let him be dumb on someone else’s time.

By Bill

June 26, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

That type of comment from a parent is typical of one whose child is taking up everyone’s space. Maybe the old saying, “the nut doesn’t fall from the tree” has some validity.

By decaturparent

June 26, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

Mine’s going to Pine Acres this year (girl scout camp). Ten days in a tent (the kind with a wood platform). My kid’s psyched but I’m freaking out. She’ll be with her best friend so that should help if she gets homesick.

I can’t imagine how I will be when I send them to college.

Re internet access - I don’t think I would consider a camp that had internet access for anyone but the director. I want to get them as far away from mondern culture as possible for a week or so.

P.S. Anyone have a review on Pine Acres? I’ve heard it’s fun - and it all checks out on paper - but anyone actually have a kid go there?

By Janine

June 26, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

You are so right DECATURPARENT…about getting away from ‘modern culture’….[read that COMPUTERS ]…I had a parent tell me that his kid was not going to be allowed to touch a computer for work or play during the summer….He was going to go outside and CLIMB A TREE !!!…..ANd when he comes inside, he’s going to read….real books…not textbooks…

By Stephanie

June 26, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

Heck no my child does not and will not attend a camp during her summer break, too many stories of children being molested. I trust only a handful of people with my baby girl however, when she is older middle or highschool age I may reconsider if she shows interest…most parents send them away to get the kids out of their hair, so sad.

By Ernest

June 27, 2006 08:37 AM | Link to this

I accidentally hit the -Enter- key. I was saying they do play the Gamecube but I tie access to it to a combination of chores and reading.

By SNY

June 27, 2006 09:10 AM | Link to this

My daughter is getting ready for a modeling competition in Disney World this summer. She doesn’t have time for overnight camps. But even if she did, I would not send her to one. I agree with Stephanie plus, we hardly get to see our kids during the school year. They spend most of the time in school and after school care. I leave work early and spend as much time with my kids as possible during the summer. The summer months are mine. According to the CRCT, my daughter should be in summer school over missing the reading cut off score by 3 points. I refused to send her. What could 3 weeks of summer school give her that her teacher didn’t in 180 days. Summer school would be a waste of her time. She’ll retake the test on July 10th and keep moving on.

The summer is family time for me and my family. Not camp time. Maybe when she gets older.

Decaturparent, I have never been or heard of Pine Acres, but I was a girl scout in California and Virginia. You can definately trust the camps that they sponsor. She will be loved and looked after almost as well as you would. Hope that helps.

By Ernest

June 27, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this

My oldest participated in a 2 week Debate camp at Emory. He indicated it was a GREAT experience and found out there were scholarship opportunities available. I liked it because it exposed him to a diverse environment of participants and gave him real exposure to life on a college campus. I did send him with a laptop that had wireless capabilities. He said it was invaluable having this. We also communicated via IM when he had questions on various arguments he worked on.

My other kids are in a combination of band, dance, church, tennis, and basketball camps. I’m a firm believer that an idle mind is the devil’s workshop hence we do our best to keep them busy for the summer.

By Litmajor

June 27, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

We don’t do any overnight camps since we feel our kids are just too young to be on their own. My son attends the Math and Writing Camp at Mercer U. and they both have various athletic camps that they participate in.

Other than that, we travel and visit some of the local museums and things we don’t get to during the busy school year. They both got a two week “break” from school but they are already back to working on things that will help them in August.

AOL has a Step by Step Math program for $5 a month it will customize math instruction for grades 6 and up I believe. If you know the name of the textbook your child will work in it will customize work for you. I think it’s a great concept and program. You can’t beat $5 a month.

By SNY

June 27, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

The private school that my daughter will attend next year gave us a list of summer reading. It is a great list of authors and she has to read at least 5 books. Then she has to choose 3 of them and write a 4-5 paragraph paper and an illustration about the book. All of this is due the 1st week back at school. I love this idea. So far, she has only read 1 book because we spent the first part of the summer “off” from school. Now that July is coming, it is time to slowly get back into the mind frame of papers and math and reading. She loves it. Never underestimate the power of a book. Kids love to read. My son is 3 years old TODAY and he checked out his first book from the library yesterday. He was so excited. I am blessed to have great, smart, fun-loving children. My daughter wants me to find her an overnight cheer camp. If anyone know of any, please let me know. I’ll look into it for next year, maybe.

By Litmajor

June 27, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

SNY-

If you don’t mind traveling, there are plenty of overnight cheer camps in Texas and other states. Let me know if you’re interested and I’ll pull out my daughter’s gymnastics magazines for more details. I’ve seen info about cheer camps in the latest issues.

By camper mom

June 27, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

My daughter spends the very first week of summer break at Camp Westminster Summer Camp (a real open-aired cabin, with real summer camp experiences like what we had growing up with no internet, tv, radios, etc.); and the rest of the summer is devoted to mini-academic lesson prepared by me since I’m an educator, reading, traveling, musuem visits, and just being a kid. They deserve a break, too.

By sobegape

June 27, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

My son has had a busy summer. The first three weeks were filled with basketball practice every day. The weekend of Father’s Day, the coach took them to a 3-day basketball camp. I was hoping that would prepare me for his next trip. He will be at The University of Kansas as part of the Duke University TIP Summer Studies program. This ‘camp’ lasts 3 weeks. I have no idea how I’m going to handle that. We’re going to miss Restaurant Week! :-)

By BlindHomer

June 27, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

SNY - Glad to hear about the private school and summer reading program, for awhile there I thought you were under-reacting to that CRCT reading score. Three points below the already abysmally low cut scores might indicate one to two years below level in a competent school system.

By decatuparent

June 27, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

Stephanie - I don’t send my kids to sleepover camp to “get them out of my hair.” I send them because it is a fabulous opportunity for children to learn to get along without mommy and daddy watching and commenting on their every move. I think that some of the most important skills that I can teach my children are to be courageous, self confident and independent and to know who they are and who they want to be. Summer camp goes a long way toward helping me reach those goals with them.

My child is attending an all girls’ camp and has been very well trained on dealing with strangers and “kinda knows” so I have minimized the risk as much as conceivably possible. The vast majority of molestations are committed by trusted family members, so you probably need to avoid having your chilldren spend any time with relatives too. Statistically, they are in much more danger with relatives than with camp counselors.

My days at sleepover camp are some of the best memories of my childhood. I went to camp for years and was even a counselor when I was in college. My parents sent me because they knew that I would have a blast…. not to get me out of their hair… and they made some sacrifices to pay for it.

Not all kids are cut out for sleepover camp, but it’s one of my daughter’s favorite parts of the summer.

Your generalizations hurt your credibility.

By Jeff

June 27, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

From someone who has worked in summer camps, public schools, and wilderness educational programs:

I worked at at Tech camp, but it was still pretty fun. The kids didn’t have access to the Net and very RARELY got to play computer games. If they were on the computer, they were being taught something. We also got outside at LEAST twice a day to play games of some kind… dodgeball was their favorite, but we also played ultimate frisbee, kickball, and some others. I would like to work at a more traditional camp at some point, but we’ll see how that shapes up. (Next summer the plans are to spend the summer partying/ goofing off… basically being a single 24 yr old guy! :) )

At the Wilderness camp we spent about 6 hrs a day inside - if that. The kids built their own communal tents, with minimal adult help. It was an experience, to say the least!

About safety: At the Tech camp, every single instructor had to undergo some pretty extensive first aid training, as well as an extensive background check. I was an overnight instructor, and I became the resident security officer in the process. Any little bump I heard at night was investigated, and unless there was homosexual acts going on among the kids, there was NOTHING happening sexually AT ALL at that camp. At the Wilderness camp the instructors got pretty close, but the kids never knew about it and when instructors were together it was about a kile away from any of the kids’ campsites. I can honestly say that to my knowledge NOT A SINGLE CAMP INSTRUCTOR that I have worked with ever even THOUGHT about messing around with a kid.

By SET

June 27, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

An observation:

I am noticing that many of the high-functioning University types seem to have a family history that includes sending the kid to Europe or South America or around the USA without the parents starting 13-18. Often they were sent to visit relatives or sent on trips with other families or friends. Sometimes they are sent with Youth tour groups or school excursions.

The parents seem to have made a point of getting Junior used to the concept of 1> Travel 2> Independence to a degree and 3> Deporting themselves in public like they belong to a family with some class. These kids are remarkably able to meet and converse with adults they don’t know including those who could hire, promote, or admit them to grad school.

On the other hand, the low functioning people I see hanging out in the criminal courts often live with mother, grandmother, or some overindulgent female (girlfriend throwing her life away) generally - have managed to grow up in California without seeing either the Ocean or the Snow, have managed to avoid travel even to the principal cities of the US let alone a national park, and really can’t see themselves ever changing. These people are also uncomfortable in meeting or talking to stranger adults not in their class.

I see parents who raise Sonny and Cher to stay on their block and those who condition the kids to travel and meet people. Guess which kids do better in life? Guess which kids marry (shack up) down?

I have a lot of respect for parents who deliberately wean the kids from the nest and send them packing - starting with Summer Camp as a child. Yes they have to be careful and they may even worry about what is going on while the kid is gone. They take these “risks” for a reason.

It’s not the money, although 1st class travel is always better. It’s the willingness to push the kids out of the nest - and to enlist help from friends, family or school to get the trips organized. Some of the University types I’m referring to came from single mothers or blue collar families and large families. They were not rich but had parents that made sure they would stand on their own two feet.

I see too many mothers in court trying to explain to whoever gives a damn about her opinion that her 30 year old child didn’t mean to rob/kill/maim/steal-the-stolen-car or whatever. She should have made him grow up and that includes pushing or throwing him out of the nest on schedule.

Good for the summer camp parents.

By lynn d

June 27, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

My boys are at sleep away camp as we speak. I miss them terribly. But it is a such a wonderful experience, that I couldn’t keep them from going.

I was raised in a family much like SET described and although we don’t travel so much, I know my boys benefit from sleep away camp. (Which by the way is in its 78th year and some of this country’s great financial and political leaders attended, but that isn’t why I send them.)

Coming from a small city in the deep south, sleep away camp in the midwest was my first exposure to people who weren’t southerners. (Keep in mind that this was in the 70s, diversity in the south only meant black and white.)

In high school, I went to Exeter Boarding School for a summer. For those of you with gifted or motivated children, I can’t recommend this experience enough. It is similar to the Duke Program (which is also outstanding.) Lest you think these programs are only for the elite, my mother spent nearly a decade managing a program that sent minority children to programs like those below. (Most New England boarding schools have similar programs.) It really helps to show kids what they can shoot for and what they can be.

http://306.exeter.edu/summer/index.htm http://306.exeter.edu/summer/index.htm

By sobegape

June 27, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

SET - I read this blog every time a new topic is revealed. I don’t always post a reply, but I read them all. There have been many times when I have disagreed with your opinion, but I must say that on this subject, you and I are reading from the same page.

By SNY

June 27, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

SET,

You are so negative about black people that it makes me sick to read your posts. Do you have anything nice to say about black people or lower class people at all? All you do is complain that they are in jail or they don’t do this or they don’t do that. What do they do positive in your opinion? I would really like to know. My mother was a single mother of two girls and my sister didn’t go to camp. She didn’t want to go. She still lives a good life. Stop looking at the media and all the negative in the black community and try to do something positive for it. If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.

By sobegape

June 27, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

Ummm…I didn’t see where SET specifically stated ‘Black’ as a characteristic for anyone in that post.

By SNY

June 27, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

His mind set has been established from subject to subject. It is easy to tell whom he is referring to.

We all realize and recognize that there is evil and stupidity in this world. Why not try and stay positive? Give some hope.

By Stephanie

June 27, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

For those who were obviously offended by my personal beliefs…I can understand wanting your children to know who they are, learn to be on their own etc., but I feel that my child at 7 years of age is too young to attend a summer camp though she is very mature and highly intelligent. Call me an overprotective parent if you like though I don’t believe a parent can be too overprotective at such a young age. For the record to another persons comment about the type of children who are sent away and what they turn out to be like as adults versus those who aren’t…that is such an ignorant statement I am not sure where to begin so that you can be put in your place. My child comes from a highly educated home, her father is a design engineer and I myself have studied law. She has had the opportunities to be able to travel many places within the US as well as other countries in Europe. As I previously stated, if interest is shown at an older age (middle or high school) there will be reconsideration but to “wean” your child from the “nest at 7 years old is just ridiculous… my child not only comes from educated parents with the ability to travel to many different places, she also is learning different languages (other than Spanish) and she has already made a firm decision on her career as an adult. Some really should think before they speak…

By lynn d

June 27, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

Stephanie

There aren’t many sleep away camps that take 7 year olds :) The AJC actually had an editorial about this a few weeks ago. About how camps feel a lot of pressure because younger siblings are chomping at the bit to go to camp with their brother or sister.

Summer camp isn’t the only way to assure a successful adult, in fact, very few kids have the luxury of attending camp. (It is, no doubt, a luxury.) But is an absolutely glorious way for a child to grow up, if the kid is so inclined.

By MMM

June 27, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

Last week my 9 year old went to Fernbank’s space camp and had a great time. This week she tried out for Young Singers of Callenwalde and she is watching the muppets on DVD right now.

This week my 7 year old is in French camp. He grumped the first day. He has been green with envy for the space camp but can’t go until 4th grade.

By camper mom

June 27, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

SET,

FROM A BLACK PARENT….you are so right. I don’t recall any statements about race either; but I do know that there are no excuses for low-income families not to send their children to these cultureally and academically rich environments, because most (if not all) offer scholarships that are never claimed.

I grew up in a single-parent, low-income home, and my mother had a high school education; but every summer my sister, brother and I were being shipped off to various summer camps and academic prep camps (paid for with scholarships), because my mother had the desire for us to be exposed to bigger and better things. Many times the information is sitting right in the school counselors office. Blaming others is unfortunate, but one can’t argue with facts. Visit a courtroom one day.

I still could be hanging out on the corner with my 36 year-old buddies; but because my mother had a vision of a much larger world, I have an EdD and I can hold my own in any environment.

By SET

June 27, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this

SNY:

Sobegape was right, I didn’t refer to any race in the point about how great it is when families get their kids out of the cocoon and into the world at an early age.

Your irritation is amusing. If I knew more about you I could better place it. I’m in my 50’s. So I lived when things were a LOT different in this country. What is your age range/geographic orientation?

In CA it’s only in the late 20th century that blacks even had enough numbers to be important on the sociological scene. It was probably different in the east and the southern US.

Most of our criminals, drunks, rapists, etc. in CA used to be white. When I was young, blacks in CA - poor or not - consisted of Mother, Father and their children. And everybody had a job.

I make no apology for calling things as I see them from my perspective over on the left coast. I’m not in the world to make you happy. I’m on the blog to make a point and to learn from the experiences of others.

So tell us your story.

And, if it seems to you I complain about the degregation blacks in theis country have fallen to: Think of Lyndon Johnson and the Great Society. Whatever black strenghts and weaknesses are, the madness we see in our schools and prisons would not be happening without the Federal Government turning welfare into an entitlement provided there was no man in the house.

It doesn’t take a village to raise children, it takes parents. That means Mommy and Daddy, in residence.

And Yes, SNY, a single mother is a poor substitute for parents. Especially a stupid single mother. I see them all the time. And let’s just say that different ethnics have different percentages.

Some women can manage raising a strong and productive child without a father but the odds are against it. Internet research uner “rouge elephant”. People who play against the odds on purpose are known as “losers”.

By SET

June 27, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this

The thread here made me think of something.

I wonder what my parents were thinking of when they had us walking home several miles from school at 3rd and 4th grade - through hostile territory?

And sometimes we even took the city bus home from grade school - again 3rd and 4th grade. We had to zig zag routes to get up the hill and transfer buses. On occasion I’d take the bus to the adjoining county and come home after dinner with my father from his work.

I met all kinds of people and whenever I felt like it I’d get off the bus and check out the stores on the way home, then get back on with a transfer.

We could have been kidnapped or killed several times over it would seem. They never worried about it. I never bothered mentioning the screaming Birchers who didn’t like black kids walking past their cheap little houses. I knew their anger was rooted in the fact that I was going uphill and they were never moving up any higher on the hill in their lives.

I suppose all this made me the pleasant personality I am - right? The thing is - did my parents plan it?

These events were during the Selma Race riots and my older Sibling and cousins had had a heck of a time in their integrated Public High School. Yet the parents (and the other (few) black parents in the same school - had us all getting ourselves home from school on our own. We were dropped off in the morning - carpooled with the other black families.

Compared to my older cousins I’m actually a nice person (they went through more aggravation in those years as they were older then). They’re more ruthless than I and even less interested in pleasing anyone who doesn’t sign the paycheck. They have careers as do I in integrated CA. All of us here were the first generation to be raised in an integrated world. All our parents went to all black schools and lived in all black neighborhoods until landing in CA after getting out of the military. (everybody did the military then, it seemed)

In High School the fighting was mainly about academics and I was able to keep up with the college prep routine easily. So were my siblings and cousins. That was a shock to some people who thought we could be passed up.

As we got older the split between my parent’s generation and mine became more acute. Most of my cohort moved away from the parents towns to get established on our own. We’d been trained so well on how to survive we didn’t want to stick around them and get drawn into some orthodox black world that didn’t exist anymore. Then the intermarriages started…

The only summer camps we ever heard of were Jack and Jill.

By SET

June 27, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

Typo’s.. That was supposed to be - Internet Research under “rouge elephant”

By SET

June 27, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

Now that I think of it, my cohort - siblings and cousins have moved across the Western States and abroad to Asia and Europe (permanently, for career reasons). You can get further away from the parents and their world than that.

Absolutely no one moved back to St. Louis.

By SET

June 27, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

SNY:

I think I am positive and I have lots of hope. My family and friends are really getting rich. Hope we keep it when this government screws the people into the ground. Well, they can’t take our education away.

I work with and I know too many people who were ESL students - or CPS kids removed from parents - who have graduate degrees and Houses and Hondas. I know things can get better. I complain because I believe they won’t get better for people who are so babied they become unfit for anything but prisons.

So I watch them get sent to prison. Ever hear of the CA 3 strikes law? The strikes start at 16. And as Elvis put it, “His mother cried…”

So I go off on the public school administrations. Still like the tough teachers though. They’ve got to be allowed to flunk kids, though. Flunk them out of the school if needed.

We can turn things around if we return to methods of school administration that work. Try 1959.

By Me

June 27, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

I thought this blog was for discussing the summer of children who PASSED the test. SNY has stated in blogs daily about how the system has fail her child who is only 8 and she was being tested as a 9 or 10 years old. Well, she was in 3rd Grade; she should be able to handle the test for 9 and 10 years old. Besides, she only failed by 3 points.

The system has failed her child with having a teacher that mother doesn’t like or doesn’t understand her child, Gwinnett County schools have failed her because she failed the CRCT, and public school failed her due to the fact of the “secrets” of the test.

Please, stop the complaining, take you kid back to the private school to coddle her and pretend she’s in the real world.

Who is the failure? The best of luck to you in 7 or 8 years!

By Me

June 27, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

Typo’s - Sorry failed…

By Nja

June 27, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this

My goodness. Can we ever stick to the topic? To answer the question. I do not send my child away to camp during the summer. He is 7 years old and it is my opinion that it is too early. When he gets older I will revisit the subject. But if the time ever comes where I do send him I would like for it to be somewhere without internet access or television.

And I know this has nothing to do with the initial question but to address some points made - I am a black single parent and I can guarantee my child has traveled (abroad) more than a lot of people on this board. And no, I’m not in that military. People need to stop making such sweeping generalizations. Get out of the box that you live in and actually talk to people instead of getting your information strictly from statistics and the media.

By Stephanie

June 27, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

Nja, well said…people tend to speak out of their buttocks these days. ;)

By SNY

June 28, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this

Stephanie,

Including you!

Me,

I didn’t say the Gwinnett County was keeping secrets, I just didn’t quite understand all of the dynamics of the test, that’s all. I am only blaming myself for that, not the teacher, my daughter or the county. I should have known that my daughter was lacking in this one area. I didn’t. That is completely my fault, but I bet you that when she retakes the test on July 10th. She will pass it with flying colors because that is the only thing that we have worked on this summer so far. I want her to take that test knowing for a fact that she passed it when she walks out of the room.

But, I also don’t think that it is realistic to fail a child a whole grade because they didn’t understand one part of a reading test. She missed every question that is considered an inferential question. She didn’t miss anything else in the reading portion of the test. Those questions alone are what made her fail the test. She didn’t miss any other reading question. The rest of her test scores are as follows: (and this is from her principal, I haven’t seen them yet.)

Reading 797 English 816 Math 351 Science 315 (favorite subject by the way) Soc.St. 334

As you can see, I am not a neglectful parent, just a little uniformed about some of the reading requirements. We will remedy this situation.

BTW, why should I make her sit in summer school with scores like this when now I know exactly what she needs help with and I can help her without the distractions of kids who don’t want to be in school anyway? I decided to let her enjoy her summer. After the test, she will not be going to camp because she is too young, in my opinion, but she will be off to CA,NJ, OH, and SC. All in a three week period. She will be a traveling fool.

You guys, I’m not a neglectful parent. I love my kid and I expect the best out of her. I just don’t think that she performs her best around other children who do not share in our religious beliefs. She needs to be around Christian children who know what is expected of them at all times and who know that the administrators at the school mean business. A little fear is not a bad thing.

By Jeff

June 28, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

SNY:

I don’t know about your particular denomination, but to give you a clue about my Christian heritage: My dad is a deacon. Within my family (counting extended family) there are 3 pastors and several deacons that I know of. The current President of the Georgia Baptist Convention knows both myself and my immediate family very well. I’m now an independent Baptist.

Wanna know why I left the SBC? Legalism and self-righteous hypocrites.

Wanna know why I bring that up? Your quote: “She needs to be around Christian children…”. NO, MA’AM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She needs to be around DISCIPLINED children, yes. But about the WORST thing you can do to her is to only have her hang around “Christian” kids. Unfortunately in today’s youth groups you see JUST as much - if not more - of what you would see in any gathering of randomly selected teenagers. Did ya listen to the Bert Show this past Friday and Monday?

In addition to that: If she grows up only around “Christian” kids, she will never learn how to defend that faith you find so precious. Trust me, I count my time spent in a very liberally-run Scrip Lit class at KSU as among the best in my life in terms of equipping me to defend my faith. Without that kind of fire though, your child will never be tempered into battle-hardened steel.

Take it from someone who’s been there, SNY. As a teacher, I can’t say too much to my kids from private schools about their faith. But I CAN see that they fail in virtually every way that counts as far as their faith goes. They do exactly the same things as every other kid, and even when they are doing the “right” things, they do it is such a way as to further demean our faith. One memorable situation was where I had a lesbian student relate how some ultra conservative Christian students had told her she was going to Hell because she was a lesbian. They shut off that kid from the only Hope she had because of their misguided religious bigotry. (BTW: For anyone who would make a similar comment: They don’t go to Hell because of whatever particular sin. The Bible is clear that the only reason one goes to Hell is rejection of Christ as Savior. That’s a discussion for another day and another blog though…)

By Leia

June 28, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

After I finish teaching these two mini-courses at Ga. Tech, my family (husband, twin 7th grade girls, and me) are going to Oxford University in England! I was invited to help teach there for Tech for the month of July, and we dedided to turn it into a vacation. We’re all looking forward to the experience.

By Leia

June 28, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

Oops! “dedided” should be “decided”

By SET

June 28, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

It’s interesting how some of the writers above (the women?) seem to enjoy making personal snipes in a public blog at the other writers.

When someone can’t hack it in public discourse they quickly resort to name calling and personalization - I’ve always seen this in face to face debate and it’s going on here also. None of know each other’s children and any policy debating we do is policy debate and can hardly be personal. Yet people perceive it as personal - from perfect strangers - and get emotional and defensive.

Especially when they believe their mythology they call religion is somehow important to everyone else. The “good christian” types I’ve seen around here in CA since I was in 1st grade when Kennedy was President have always been poorly educated and as nutty as Jim and Tammy-Faye Baker. They still are and want to make education policy for other people.

Back to point on the screening tests. Remember, they are largely proxies for the IQ tests that were foolishly banned decades ago. Be concerned about children that fail them when the large majority of the kids sitting in the same classes pass easily. What is happening may be that there is something different about the failing kids and it may not be that the kids aren’t “trying” - it could be that the failing kids - or the core of them - are being deselected by the standardized tests.

For example in CA the state HS Graduation test was set at 10th grade. When preliminary results showed half of the black would fail the pass level was dropped to 8th grade averages. Now 96.5% of the white students pass - most of them laughing about the test (I’ve had the conversations with some of the recent grads) while a significant percentage of the Hispanic and Black students (and I mean the ones who actually stayed to 12th grade) just can’t seem to pass.

And it’s not the ESL issue, the ESL europeans, asians and other high IQ immigrants pass.

While I do believe in standardized tests and IQ testing early and often to sort the students into programs they are reasonably expected to do well in and make a living with, this testing regimen bothers me. Rather than testing at 13 and adjusting the child’s school and program to find them a stable path as other countries do, we make all the kids stay in the same public schools then test at the end to “punish” the left side of the Bell Curve for being what they are. Mark them as dummies and dump them in the street with no diploma.

They shouldn’t have a diploma from an academic school they couldn’t pass - but they should have been in Culinary School by age 15, or trade school, or Hotel Maid school - or something they would have a marketable skill or entry to a occupation.

What we are doing - with this NCLB and related testing - is malicious. We know better than this as a nation.

Remember, I’m not talking about your kid who may only have had a bad day and passes all the other tests. I’m talking about those who continously fail these screening tests.

By SNY

June 28, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

I understand what you are saying but for us right now, private christian school is the best solution. She has friends at home in the neighborhood that do not attend private school and she has cousins as well. I just want her where I know I can trust the people around my child to teach her and to let me know when there is something that she doesn’t understand. I didn’t feel or get the kind of response from public school that makes me want to send her back. Her test score are great, but no one sees that, they only see that she failed in English. They don’t even care that it was only by 3 lousy points. Did you see the rest of her scores? She is a great student under the right education system. As she gets older, we may try different things, but right now I am going to put her where I feel she needs to be. If that upsets or offends people because it is private and not public school then that is their problem. Yes, I have given up on the public school system. They only get one time to mess up. Maybe I had a bad teacher, maybe not. Maybe she was a good teacher for others, just not my child. She was nice but she wasn’t strict and she did not follow thru. Then during the last week of school, she sends me a note home saying,” I’ve realized that “your kid” needs to have extra work in front of her to keep her on task. Once she realizes that she is almost done with her work, she looses focus.” Tell me, why did it take her until the last week of school to figure this out? Especially when I told her at the beginning of the school year that my child gets into trouble when she is bored. An idle mind is the devil’s playground.

Jeff,

Believe me when I thank you for your advise on this topic. I understand you and you have shown me a different perspective that I hadn’t considered. But, I have to do what my heart is telling me to do. I’m sure you can understand that.

By jim d

June 28, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

Jeff.

AGREED!!

By SET

June 28, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

SNY:

Parents are the only people in the world who (as a group) can be expected to do what is best for an individual child. Everybody else will only pass through the child’s live - the parents are forever.

If the parents feel strongly that the child should be in a particular school or program the child qualifies for that should normally be the end of the discussion. If you picked that school for your child it was probably the best choice for her. No matter how well meaning a critic is they don’t have to live with the situation.

There were legal battles over the rights of the Amish to keep their kids out of all schools and on the farms - I think the Amish won. To make their kids integrate with the Non-Amish kids would likely destroy the Amish. Although I have concerns about cultists - I’m convinced as long as we have a free economy (or it doesn’t get less free) the invisible hand should keep things in balance.

I do see battles in court when never-married or divorced Mommy and Daddy get into a tug of war. Really bad scene. Not only have I seen a custodial parent decide to marry or shack up with a (recovering) addict, but then decide to move away so none of the other parent and their family and friends won’t be able to keep an eye on the kid. And they fight over everything from what school to what doctor the kid goes to. Since nuclear families are the exception rather than the rule in some places it’s really tough.

By Jeff

June 28, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

SNY:

With my last post ANYONE who really knows me knows exactly who I am on this blog.

That said, and those that know me can back me up here: I’m one of the world’s WORST about filtering things through my heart and making a bad call because of it. You see, my own experiences in school were not that great, on the average. The Student Teaching fiasco I went through only hurt me even more. But one thing I’ve been realizing more and more: The heart lies as much as it tells the truth. It is a well known fact among men that if you can figure out how to pull a woman’s emotions, said woman will do absolutely anything you want. The key to making the absolute best decisions available is not to listen to your heart, your brain, or yur soul independently. The key is to synthesize what each is telling you and act as best you know.

I think you’re making the wrong decision, and I know that it is not you that will bear the consequences either way - it is your daughter. If she failed the test, cutting and running is not the answer - it is RARELY the answer in life. She needs help, and clearly she wasn’t getting that in the private school. Public schools have a LOT of faults. I’m a teacher - I know all too well! But overall you’ve got teachers there that care. And for those that don’t, at least you know that they know that in some ways their JOBS rely on those test scores. TRUST me, for many, THAT is a BIG motivator.

Closing: Your daughter was in public school for one school year. While some damage might have been done, the FAR more likely case is that the private school simply did not teach her what the State of Georgia says she needs to know.

By SNY

June 28, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

But what about her other scores? Couldn’t it be that I just have to work with her on this one concept for this year and be more on top of my game going forward? Why couldn’t that be a more suitable answer. BTW, we are not running from public school because of test scores. I decided to send her back to private school back in November. I was just waiting for the year to end. I didn’t want to move her mid year. Even if she had aced the test from top to bottom Gwinnett county still isn’t the school system for my child.

By Me

June 28, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

My statement was “The system has failed her child with having a teacher that mother doesn’t like or doesn’t understand her child, Gwinnett County schools have failed her because she failed the CRCT, and public school failed her due to the fact of the “secrets” of the test.”

My children are not going to a camp; we’re going to DC, MD and SC to a beach resort to recover from all of the running around. The time they enjoy is getting to spend with their Dad and me. Those are their words…

BTW, not bragging, just a point, both my children passed the CRCT and exceeded in all areas of testing, so no need for summer school.

By gsparent

June 28, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this

decatureparent- My daughter went to Pine Acres several times. Always a great experience. As a former GS leader that has visited and stayed at the GSNWGA camps, I trust them with my daughter and would recommend them. They usually keep them so busy there is no time for homesickness.