Get Schooled

By Nja

June 22, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

I don’t want to say this is the consensus across the board. I have seen parents discourage their children from advanced classes. But there are plenty of poor, minority parents who do have high expectations for their children. There are also those that have high expectations but are busy working two job or are worried about how they are going to handle their bills. I think the best we can do for these kids is still give them the hope that things can change with education. I have seen far too many people write these students off immediately. And as an educator- that to me is extremely sad. A lot of times all kids need to know is that someone is looking out for them and is genuine in wanting to see them succeed.

By SET

June 22, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

The low expectation thing can contribute to an atmosphere where black kids goof off or play dumb and get away with it. I think that does occur but in my experience it’s with white liberals who will take any excuse from minority students and will never publicly (or privately) correct them.

It could just be my experience but my white conservative, or WWII veteran type teachers didn’t accept excuses from anybody white or black - and they’d correct you in front of the whole school if you in any way let standards slip.

The Black Teachers I had - a long time ago - were very quick to spot black students they believed were capable of more and demanded more from them. I don’t know what’s going on lately.

I just know these kids are too comfortable and not working hard enough for my taste.

By jeff

June 22, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

This is known as the Pygmalion Effect (or Rosenthal Effect)

Robert Rosenthal & Lenore Jacobson have studied this.

Old news. But I guess some people are still in the dark on this?

By frank123

June 22, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

Have NOT seen examples of teachers having low expectations of minority students. I think that the teachers check how the students are doing in class (disruptive, attentive etc), and how they are doing on homework and quizes. Are the parents are calling and emailing? Generally, teachers are very liberal and the students come in as clean slates. To me the major thing is how much do the parent’s care and how much the consistently emphasize school to their kids, and getting good grades. How much to the parents insist that the homework be completed? They have the training so I do not fight them on how to teach the class. I normally ask the teacher what I can do to support what they are doing in class.

By Janine

June 22, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

As a teacher in one of those schools that Maureen describes..and the Sow’s ear analogy….I can’t speak for all, but in my school, it was NEVER the teachers who had low expectations…it was those “CONSULTANTS” in the county office…they would/will not allow high expectations…Their mantra was “offer the student a chance to succeed” …which in the end turned out to be ….[1] give 25 points for brining a pencil to call [2] give 25 points for having a paper signed…[3] give “less challenging assignments” which meant ‘LOWER THE STANDARDS”….again..please know that it is almost never the teachers…it is the county administration who will not tolerate high standards.

By OldSchool

June 22, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this

Remember the term “Self-fullfilling prophecy”? I try very hard (early in my career this was much easier) to have high expectations for all my students and to challenge them to learn beyond the textbooks. I encourage them to master the basic skills and rules of drafting but to trust their instincts when it comes to problem solving. Not once do I predetermine any student’s success or failure. Drafting is not everyone’s cup of tea and I’ve seen the academically gifted students struggle while some who do miserably in academic classes produce some amazing work. In an elective class, it’s sometimes a matter of interest in the subject or simply refusing to give up that makes the difference. I encourage interaction between students, firmly believing that old adage: To teach is to learn twice.

I’m not saying that I reach every student or that some are doomed to fail (I work hard to customize assignments so weaker students will have some successes to build upon and stronger students are challenged) but with humor and patience, every student can learn SOMETHING from drafting that they can use later in life.

My successes have come in all colors and both genders, at all grade levels, in regular/advanced/special needs groups. Unfortunately, so have the few failures.

I just wish there were more of those “AHA!” moments when a struggling student suddenly “gets it.” More and more too many students give up too soon or want the answer right now without any thinking on their parts.

By teach overseas

June 22, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this

It doesn’t matter if you are in an East Cobb school or a southwest Dekalb school, in ALL schools there is a limit as to the number of disciplinary referals/detentions/suspensions and failures a teacher can make. Teachers are simply not allowed to fail more than a slight percantage of the class- REGARDLESS of how clearly the expectations are set and followed through. My first year of teaching I was told by the assistant principal that expecting homework to actually be correct was “setting the bar for students to fail”. I should accept homework for completion and effort only. Teachers at the school wanted to have higher standards- but were warned time and again to “make multiple opportunities for students to succeed” by lowering expectations.

We don’t see sows ears, but admin cannot keep taking away our needle and thread.

By Mark

June 22, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this

YES! Being a minority, that graduated from a predominately minority HS. Also having a wife that is currently an educator. I would go on record as saying that there is no doubt! That the teachers expectations can determine a pupils success or failure. Humans have a funny way of living up to your expectations. But that may also be from the teachers effort also. If a teacher expects a kid to not be able to learn certain material, then when teaching the material the teacher will spend less effort trying to support and nurture or will not try to teach the material at all. Or one thing that they do is that they will be quick to kick a student out when they feel the student is a cut-up. Instead of trying to keep the student in class and trying to present the material in a different way, they just give up and that is sad.

By janine

June 22, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this

How right you are , TEACH OVERSEAS….and now you won’t believe this,…and I won’t either until it comes down the pipe in writing…But word is that Dekalb is preparing to issue a directive to all teachers…HOMEWORK CAN NO LONGER BE COUNTED TOWARD A STUDENTS GRADE..not even one point…In the past, homework was often a percentage of the grade.[.always a sore spot with Dekalb county office people..] .

By LB

June 22, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

Adults will get out of a child what they put into one. Children will get out of an adult what they put into them.

It takes effort on both parts. If one party doesn’t try then it’s a waste of time. I have seen examples of successes and failures on both parts.

By Litmajor

June 23, 2006 08:44 AM | Link to this

I have textbooks from my education classes that, if taken literally, set up this “culture of low expectation.” The books pretty much state that only white and asian parents care about their children’s success. Black and hispanic parents are said to be too busy working two jobs-they don’t have time to worry about school. Of course, they throw in socioeconomic factors but the point they make is clear. Your black and hispanic students WILL NOT perform well. What are these young (mostly white female) future teachers to think?

They go into the classrooms thinking that they are fighting a lost battle. I learned a long time ago that I can’t make a lot of these people change their minds but I have on occasion challenged their thoughts. I simply ask them if they thought my children were like the ones described in the text. When they say no, I ask them to try and see my children in the black children that they teach. Give the child a chance before automatically assuming that they will fail.

I plan to teach in a high poverty school because I believe that every child should have access to the best possible education. Yes, I may have my change the world blinders on and I can’t say that my husband is pleased with my decision. But, I really feel that someone has to help these children. I don’t have time to waste disparaging the parents, I need to focus on the future of their children.

By Litmajor

June 23, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this

Am I crazy or is homework not the easiest “A” in the world?

By Jeff

June 23, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this

Unsure about this one. I EXPECT every single one of my kids to exceed even my HIGH expectations. I’m working on a “Performance Bonus” concept similar to what I did for EOCT last year for my new kids’ CRCT this coming year. On my layout for it, there is a space for “100% Exceed”. And I believe they can hit it. Every single student in 6th grade at my new school with what equates to a 90% or better on CRCT. BTW: Think I can get the Governor or the President to come down if they actually pull that off? I’m trying to think of something ABSOLUTELY WAYYYY over the top as an extrinisic motivator for them..

That said, I DID go into my last job expecting the high level class to be more challenging from a teaching perspective and my low level class to be more challenging from a classroom management perspective, and that indeed turned out to be true.

Therefore, like I said, unsure.

By Jeff

June 23, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this

Janine,

I can’t claim to be the most innocent teacher around - 90% of my HW last year was graded as completion - but with the new techniques I’m employing this year, HOPEFULLY I’ll at least be looking at one or two problems they do.

By OldSchool

June 23, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this

Litmajor, I’m willing to bet that no matter how difficult teaching in a high poverty school can be, you will experience that magical moment when a struggling child’s face lights up with “I GOT IT!” That is a life changing moment for both of you and that is what will keep you going. I’ve been there and those moments have gotten me through some of the worst days of my 32 years.

Just keep an open mind, an open heart, and a sense of humor. Remember too that everyone tends to tint the truth even when they don’t realize it. “Kid Truth” can make or break the relationship you develop with parents. See the example below for a great example.

http://comics.com/comics/buckets/index.html

The best of luck to you!

By teach overseas

June 23, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

Litmajor-

I can assure you that just about every teacher you will ever meet started out the with the same idealized, hopeful attitude as you. Most of us had that one wonderful, life-changing teacher that we want to emulate. The fact that you state that homework should be an easy A shows you don’t really know what is going on. Of course you did your homework- of course YOUR kids do their homework. What are you going to do when you go into that high needs school and not ONE kid will do their homework? How many chances will you give? Because the next night you have to give MORE homework, and the next night more.

It sounds really noble to say that you can’t think or worry about their parents, you are thinking about the child, but you have that kid for about 55 minutes a day, and they don’t leave behind their parents, their friends, their neighborhood, the fact that they haven’t had a good meal in days, or slept in a clean bed, all the teachers they’ve had before you, and god only knows what else. You get the kid and ALL THAT. And you don’t just have one kid- you will have at least 180 kids.

I’m so glad there is a constant stream of new and energetic teachers like you- but don’t be so quick to dismiss us veterns and our experience until you have been in the trenches for a couple of years. Keep in mind, there is a reason that 3 out of 5 new teachers quit before 5 years.

By HStchr.

June 23, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Read the book A Framework for Understanding Poverty by Ruby Payne. She’s done extensive work with poor kids, trying to understand their experiences and our expectations. What it comes down to is that poor kids have less resources to learn and don’t see the importance of learning something that isn’t going to help them right now. If they don’t see and feel the need, they don’t waste what little they have going after it. It’s not that we see sow’s ears, it’s that we don’t understand the value system poor kids work from. Poverty forces one to focus on survival and basic needs. Algebra, literature, and history, etc. have little effect on one’s ability to provide clothes and food, and are not important to the poor. Teachers have to find a way to make what is being studied relevant and necessary to poor kids. They can and will learn when they feel it’s important.

By HStchr.

June 23, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

LitMajor- keep the idealism,PLEASE! I teach in a high poverty school, and we need people like you who are willing to look for something worthwhile in the difficult to teach kids. Just brace yourself- they will be a HUGE challenge. Buy lots of pencils and paper. Poor kids don’t often don’t bother to prepare for learning, so I just give them a pencil and get busy. Love them, set high goals, and then get busy giving them as much one-on-one as you can. They’ll have every emotional issue you can think of and will be tough and mean, to each other and to you if they feel threatened. Don’t get discouraged and never, ever yell at them. They’ll try you, A LOT, to find out what your limits are. In poverty, there aren’t many material resources, so people and relationships are the valuable “things”. They will test you to see if your words are true and won’t automatically trust you. Talk to them and really listen and you’ll figure a lot out very quickly. Keep an open mind and realize they don’t think the way you do and can’t. You’re not trying to show them a “better” way of life, just a different one that is important.

By dekalb mom

June 23, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

I get the feeling from many of these answers that people still rely on their outdated perceptions and textbook teachings. I am a black, middle-class, college-educated parent of two boys in the trenches, so to speak, and I can say without equivocation that there are lower expectations by some, not all, educators, but too many for my taste. What’s more, this attitude can come from both black and white teachers.

Let me give you a couple of examples. My oldest son, who was reading at a high-school level at age 8, had a young white teacher at a parochial school stand up at our first PTA meeting of the year and exclaim how surprised she was at the aspirations of her fourth-grade (all black) students, who wanted to be “doctors, lawyers, and businessmen.” What did she think these mostly non-Catholic parents were paying full tuition to send their children to parochial school to be? Bricklayers? This same son is now in the high achievers magnet program on the south side of DeKalb County and has many black teachers who have treated him and the other children with such disdain and disrepect that I can barely stand to hear the stories. He was publicly berated and humiliated in a hallway by one teacher, who practically called him an idiot in front of his peers. My son had to meet the same criteria and standards to get into the the south side magnet program as students did to get into the one on the northern end of the county. He is not “dumb”; he has an involved parent. But somehow, I can’t see the magnet teachers at Chamblee Middle School treating their students this way. After one particularly arduous year, I wrote a long email letter to the magnet program’s director. I am still awaiting a response three years later.

As the mother of a very bright child, school has been an ordeal I never expected. And I know that the attitudes of his teachers have affected my son’s love of learning. I am praying that high school will be better and that I can find a better back-up plan than moving away from the Atlanta metropolitan area altogether.

By tracey

June 23, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Low Expectations in predominantly black school by a predominantly black staff. In my observation this school year, I’ve heard every excuse under the sun as to why their students CAN’T LEARN the required standards. I’ve heard,”These kids aren’t the same as ten years ago.” Well if you know that, why are you still teaching the same way you taught ten years ago. I’ve heard,”they are such low-level learners that I can’t teach them that. They won’t get it.” They don’t embrace cooperative groups, teacher commentary and feedback, giving children an opportunity to revise work, individual conferencing, three-part lessons, rubrics,….so basically the new GPS is being rejected. Wake up Clayton, Atlanta, and DeKalb. We are failing our kids!

By Nel

June 23, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

I had a teacher advise me to take my child out of a school because she was told to teach to the ability of the majority of the class at the expense of the more advanced children. Best advice I’ve ever taken, unfortunately. Another thing is that Gifted programs vary widely within schools. This was something that surprised me when I found out, and this should be something parents with children in Gifted need to research. If your child is in Gifted and you aren’t seeing evidence of their higher level work, make some noise.

I too am sick of hearing the excuse the black children in particular can’t pass certain tests because the are not exposed to things that white kids are. My question is, “What are the Asian children exposed to the makes them pass at a higher rate than even the white children?” Culturally, more is expected of them. Again, most of these children who are succeeding come here as refugees, not speaking a word of English, and end up as Valedictorians. There is an excuse for everything that is wrong and it’s never anyone’s fault. Low and No expectations is destroying our children, especially our males, and we as a race are suffering the consequences, only many of ous along with our elected school officials refuse to acknowledge this.

By Robert

June 23, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Teachers may begin with high expectations. After a few years of students failing/complaining, parents complaining, administrators yelling that the failure rate is too high, the news saying that we are bad teachers, and so on, things change - teachers give up. This means that we stop caring and lower our expectations so EVERYONE passes our class.

The parents are happy because their child passes. The students are happy because it was “easy” and they passed. The administrators are happy because the failure rate has dropped. The teacher is happy because now everyone has stopped yelling at them.

Do not blame the teacher here - blame the parents and the administrators for not supporting the teacher with high expectations!

By Student

June 23, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

I have seen it in the attitudes of both my school counselor and principal. At my previous school students with my GPA and class standing took 5 to 7 APs in a year and here it’s REALLY discouraged. All the quote “smart kids” would never be classified as smart kids in any other school system I’ve been in - all they seem to care about is small town ideas. It’s like a “sin” to be smart and ambitious here. I mean they just don’t get it here. It’s discouraging that the support isn’t there for me but I just ignore and realize I only have a couple years and then I’m out of the South for good.

By Litmajor

June 23, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

Thanks OldSchool. Love those comics!

Teach overseas…are you sure you have the right post? I didn’t say anything about veteran teachers. I mentioned what I see in today’s textbooks for education majors and how the students in those classes react to that particular information. I also never said that kids WILL do homework, I simply stated that homework is/would be an easy A.

I don’t have to teach and I can continue to stay home with my children like I’ve done for the past 10 years. However, I know that I can make a difference to other children.

Once I’m in that classroom, I will try my best and hopefully never pick up such a negative attitude towards people new to the field. Be blessed.

By Litmajor

June 23, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the great advice HStchr. I’m going to give it my best shot.

If I can still have my idealsim after seeing some of the things that I have witnessed over my lifetime, I believe that I will survive in that classroom darnit!:))

By Jeff

June 23, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

Lit,

How long have you taught? If you don’t have any experience at ALL, I’ll try to post a “lesson learned in the 1st semester” type thing for ya. In case ya don’t know, I started in January, so I have 1 semester experience so far… looking forward to rounding out my first year this next semester, but then, I wouldn’t have said that last a month ago! :)

By MrLiberty

June 23, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

Here are some thoughts from a former NY State and NY City Teacher of the Year. Thank god for teachers like this who have the courage to speak out.

http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm

By sobegape

June 23, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

I am a divorced mother of one one who is now in middle school. I have not personally witnessed low expectations from teachers, but I have witnessed it from other parents. My son played on a rec league basketball team and their coach wanted to see the report cards to make sure the boys were passing. The coach’s son also played on the team. When he saw my son’s report card, he was amazed. I don’t think he had a grade lower than an 95 that semester - and he is in the gifted program. The coach then pulled out his own son’s report card and, while he passed each class, there were several borderline grades. The coach then made the statement that as long as his son was passing, he was okay with it. He didn’t expect his son to do any better. Each year, I tell my son that the courses are too easy for a ‘B’. It’s getting a little harder for me to justify that because his classes are challenging, but because I started that mantra when he was in 3rd grade (or whatever grade they’re in when they begin to receive ‘real’ grades), he knows what’s expected of him.

I also heard this story on the radio this morning. There is a young man who is getting ready to start college. His SAT score was sufficient but his GPA was lacking. What happened is this…his mother always told him that there was no way she could send him to college, so he did not perform in class with the expectation of ever being able to go.

It starts at home, people. My son’s father and I divorced when my son was 3 years old, which technically makes my child a statistic…a black male being raised in a single parent household headed by the mother. On paper, that’s what he is. And there are some people who would look at that, and only that, and have low expectations of him. But because I have high expectations for him, and because he now has high expectations for himself, what other people is not going to matter one little bit.

By Robert

June 23, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

MrLiberty…

First, I wonder what profession/job you have - please inform. You post more on here seemingly than anyone and I wonder what job allows you that luxury.

Second, don’t you get tired of beating that same drum of yours. I certainly get tired of your same comment over and over and over again. Me and many posters have asked for you to add some type of new information but instead you continue with your same theme. Are you really a one-trick poster?

Finally, many many other posters have tried to respond to you - and some with valid points that you chose to ignore in order to beat your same drum. Have you ever had any education, yourself, particularly on the art of communication?

By Litmajor

June 23, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

No experience Jeff- I have two semesters of student teaching left and then I’m done. I look forward to your advice.

By Veteducator

June 23, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

To Dekalb mom, your kids should be in a parochial school for a gaining education within a religious setting - not allowed to be provided in public education - bricklayers aside. What expectation are you seting? Did these people bail on their neighborhood schools instead of working to make it more acceptable to their family standards? Hard answers to admit. If so, do not go after teachers if they do the same as you appear to be doing. If the teacher had been black and made the comment, you would be singing her praises, so who is the problem here? Expectations must be set both at home and at school. Teachers do not have a magic wand to wave over children to increase motivation or change who students are as a person. It is hard work. Children change themselves in reflection to some event in life, school related or not. Yes, children are people. Don’t blame the schools and all teachers. Educators are so frustrated with all the issues that must be dealt with before we ever close the door and start the lessons. We deal with whatever core values, behaviors, abilities,and expectations children bring from homes. You want results? Make your child accountible, trust your school within reason as you do any other institution, communicate often, feed your children good food, get medical care as needed, set up study times and make them put in the time ie parent them! so the school is not forced to be the mother of all mankind passing through the doors and can go back to the focus of the educational system in America- education of the masses-not parenting! It is easier to blame the institution or the teachers at the bottom of the system. Don’t ask them, because few will admit it until they no longer need or want a job!

By Nikole

June 23, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

All through school I was seen as the “exception” to the rule about black students, and many were not pushed like I was to succeed. I have seen black and white teachers with low expectations for their students and when I see those same students today, they have not accomplished much.

By MMM

June 23, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

One of the founders of my kids charter school is a 70+ year old Irish Catholic Nun from Chicago. In the early 60’s she was a teacher at a segregated all-black high school in Alabama. That small school, with no money and outright opposition from the local authorities has graduated a huge number of student that went on to be leaders in business, industry and the civil rights movement. This is because the Nuns and the Black community that was closest to them expected no less than 100% effort and 100% sucess.

Our charter school is populated by refugee kids and those American parents that believe that having their own kids sit next to refugees doen’t make it a “bad school”. They will all suceed together if we work as a community and expect them too, and if you don’t believe that you don’t need to send your child.

So far there is an ample waiting list, and plenty of individual stories of great progress.

We were visited by Rep. John Lewis some time back and I was in the room when Sr. Patty started naming to him some of the children she taught in that small Alabama school. She taught his brother and many of his mentors growing up. It was amazing to watch this icon of the civil rights movement suddenly start treating this small, white, old woman with such amazing respect and affection.

We have forgotten that when we desegregated, it was usually the leadership of the black schools and community that was fired and replaced by others with lower expectations of the black children. Bill Cosby is correct in asking the black community to step forward and reaffirm those earlier standards of hard work, respect for education, etc. Many in the black community never lost that. And we need a Bill Cosby for white folks because his message applies to them as well, and so many of all races are not listening.

By Jeff

June 23, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

Ok, lessons learned (in no particular order):

FAR easier to be strict first and lenient later. Going the other direction is a NIGHTMARE.

Have everything set up the moment kids walk in the door on your first day. Playing catch up is never easy, particularly for new teachers.

Learn kid’s names accurately and quickly. If your school has IDs, make the kids wear them.

PLAN YOUR LESSONS. I had a low level class that I always approached with “I’ll plan it on the fly, I know the content.” attitude. Didn’t work so well. It doens’t have to be a 15 page Student Teaching style plan, but you do need to know exactly what you plan to cover, including all examples.

Contact Parents ASAP and introduce yourself. Kids will try to make parents out to be evil, but a truly evil parent is rare.. though you WILL encounter a few. (Had a situation where the AP nearly threw the parent out of his office during a conference because parent wasn’t listening to anything we were saying…)

Parents are mostly a great ally. Many times the parent honestly doesn’t know how the kid behaves in school.

Get to know your admins. Find one that can become a friend, and develop that. Having someone on your side in the office helps TREMENDOUSLY. That way even when you are wrong, you have someone there that at least understands where you are coming from.

Get to know the teachers around you. Some of them may not like you, but most will help you out. They understand the difficulties of new teachers. (My case was more severe than normal, having not been through student teaching.)

The kids are going to try EVERYTHING. They’ll cuss you out, threaten you, destroy anything they can get their hands on. Being strict helps with this, but don’t be afraid to call for help.

More later….

By have to hide

June 23, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

For those in DeKalb, I believe that low expectations start at the top of the system, with our school board. Frankly, it is the African American school board members who frighten/disappoint me the most. I heard one of them say, when reacting to yet another story about DeKalb’s dismal test scores, our students aren’t stupid, they just don’t know how to take tests.

The school board seems to think their primary responsibility is to get reelected. To do that, they demand that transfers for students whose families ask for them, complain to principals inappropriately and yell at parents for raising questions about the quality of education in DeKalb.

I am not even certain that Dr. Lewis has high standards. Has anyone looked at the test scores as of late? Nearly 50 percent of DeKalb’s 6th graders failed the math CRCT and over 35 percent failed the 8th grade math CRCT. This is frightening.

If you want to make a difference for children in DeKalb, vote for anyone but the current board in the Novemenber elections. It is time to clean house.

By jm

June 23, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this

An older black man once told me that the worst thing that ever happened to blacks was desegregation. As a young white school teacher I was appalled until he explained why: the black school marms he revered were far more strict than the white teachers they encountered post-segregation. Apparently these black students were shocked to find white students sitting on desks and otherwise behaving disrespectfully in school. The high expectations those school marms had in the black community produced a generation of rightfully proud and capable grownups. I wish ALL races could experience those expectations today without the wrath of parents and administrators. I was one of those idealistic young teachers who wanted to make a difference teaching in an high-poverty area. I believed then as I do now that those students are capable of much more than we demand. However, it is difficult to be the sole teacher with high expectations when other teachers dole out candy all day to keep students quiet and even the principal tells you that the students aren’t capable of doing the things you ask. (Off topic, some of those students were perhaps not able to learn on grade level because many appeared to have mental problems that were untreated.) Obviously these situations of low expectations are unfair to the students because there are schools where students are expected to do advanced work. To point out the disparity, I have heard several teachers who transfered from a low-achieving school to a high-achieving school say they have trouble finding enough work to keep the kids “busy” in their new school. Shocking but true how little some schools require students to do. However, there is no point in discussing expectations without including discipline. If there is no backup for handling discipline issues, there is no point in requiring students even coming to school. It seems obvious to everyone except administration (and some parents) that with fewer discipline issues expectations will naturally rise. School officials, we beg you, please let us have high expectations! We want to hold students accountable; we want to challenge them; we have high expectations. EDUCATION WRITERS: please dig deeper to uncover the real reasons administrators hold students back. Make them talk!

By SET

June 26, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

jm:

Understanding what it actually going on is as easy as “follow the money”.

The administration know full well the IQ disparity problem underlying “The Gap”. It’s irrelevent how the disparity got there. It is easily measured and is constant across the country and the world. You can get through any serious education graduate work without being exposed to the research.

This is probably one of the reasons the Generation in power refuses to discipline black students - they don’t believe the black students are capable of any better. They don’t expect civilized behavior from the. And the those in power at public schools don’t believe discipline will make any difference in black behavior. More to the point the incumbent administrators have never lived around the segregated schools and really don’t know how good they were and to what degree iron-fisted discipline was responsible.

I have to stress over and over that when I’m discussing The Gap I’m referring to group averages not individuals. Some readers, due to their own bias, constantly interpret such remarks as the speaker claiming that no black student can exceed Asian averages. Individual black, white, asian, and jewish people can be as smart or as stupid as possible but the averages are very different and the number (percentage of total) of bright and dull vary by ethnicity.

As a result you have teachers forbidden to discipline blacks. This prohibition ranges from extremely overt to subtle. The white liberals who took control of the nations achools after the introduction of the “Great Society” don’t believe the black students should be in any way held accountable for their behavior.

Funny thing is that you could put the John Birch Society in charge of the schools and the black kids would start to show improvement. The WWII generation was far more likely to discipline black students and performance was better when they were in power (from my experience). The more “racist” (as some would think) the administration, the more black work would get done, and the better off the students would be when they went out to compete for jobs and spouses.

As I’ve indicated I believe that “The Bell Curve” and related research is old news. If anything it only means that the black students need more discipline to bring out the (significant) advantages they do have and can use in life to counterbalance their disinterest in quantum physics. Instead white liberals and their black disciples rant about not brusing the black student’s “self esteem” or their rear ends.

So the black students fill the prisons and the graveyards we wonder why.

Save us from white liberals.

By jm

June 26, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

SET, sadly you are correct about low expectations being rooted in the attitude that some students cannot do better. I heard so many excuses about why they cannot succeed and never anything to the effect that simply they could at least have self-discipline and contribute to society on some level. There is no doubt they are capable of more. My former “white liberal” self now sees that it is possible to kill with kindness, which is what these “helpful” and “compassionate” folks are slow to realize. I do believe that old-school strictness, administered with the right intentions, is a lot less racist and more beneficial than what we are doing right now.

I don’t know who the John Birch Society is (going to look it up after this post) but if that system is better than the current liberal administration then the liberals need to leave their failures behind and make way for something that works. We have to vote for politicians with enough courage to advocate personal responsibility (Libertarians?). How visionary! How obvious!

By T-Man

June 26, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

Great point Set. Also there is a big need for the teachers to have backing when they discipline a child. Administrators are just trying to keep their job’s by allowing the behavior problems to remain. ISS (in school suspension) is just that still in school. It is time for the bad kids to be kicked out and focus on those that want to be there. We lose more kids when the bad apple’s stay in the class. Look at the failing numbers. If we were to take out 70% of the kids that don’t want to learn then more time would be spent on those that want to learn. There are those kids who want to learn but struggle to keep up. If their teacher spent less time on behavior issues then she/he could spend that time with the struggling student. Who has time to keep up with the boarder line students when they spend most of their time keeping order in a class with future drop outs. Drop them out of class before they drop themselves out. Yes it maybe harsh, but when only 40% of a race graduates then drastic measures must be taken. Expectations for all students will rise and teachers can be teachers again and not a prison guard.

By SET

June 26, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

The Birchers were around when I was in grade school in the early 60’s. They were (in my experience anyway) working-class whites who were terrified of open housing laws (with good reason, I suppose in hindsight).

They used to yell at me when I walked home from grade school and passed their houses. I was walking uphill. I lived in a house at the top of the horizon overlooking both bridges of the East Bay of San Francisco. Their places were relatively shabby and didn’t have views of anything.

I had run-ins with them as I moved along to 8th grade. Some of their kids were in the school, but not many. They were actually afraid of people like me and I was a grade school kid. My memories of them is sensing their fear. None of them were college educated. I come from at least 4 generations of graduate degreed people.

Poor things, their world (like that of my parents and grandparents) was falling down around them and they didn’t want to get ready for the new world. They didn’t want anything to change.

By Stephanie

June 27, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

Excuse me but teachers do not have low expectations of the “minority” students. However, many feel the teachers should slow down so these children can catch up. Well uh what about the other children, they should be held back because of the no child left behind crap more than they already are? I have an issue with the fact that teachers are already behind due to non English speaking children being in their classes. My child happens to be quite intelligent and I make it known yearly to her new teacher that she is going to end up bored if not given extra work. Yes, her teachers have given her extra work on a daily basis among other things to keep her from getting bored and possibly into trouble while patiently waiting. Words can not even express how upset I am that my children and others have to sit back in class so the teachers can attempt to get the other students caught up. Those children should be put into special classes to learn until they understand English and develop average or above work habits so that every child in a class can benefit at the greatest level possible. Oh and it would also help if the parents of “minority” children would take an active role in their child’s education, learning English would be a great start!

By SET

June 27, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

Stephanie:

If you are referring to the invasion of the US by Mexico - the plan is to replace English as the official language with Spanish.

GA is not in the middle of the invasion yet but I suspect you are already beginning to feel something is changing. There is a second economy now that is in Spanish. English is not spoken in CA in the fast food industry. You need Spanish to work there. The Invader families are not teaching English to their children because their first loyalty is to Mexico and they return regularly to maintain the ties. They even vote in Mexican elections. The invaders live in the US because our government pays them free medical care and education, which Mexico never has.

Our disloyal multi-national corporations including Bank Of America provide full services in Spanish and facilitates the untaxed flow of massive amounts of US funds into Mexico. Our Government now requires Spanish be used on our voter’s registration and our DMV forms and tests are all in Spanish. The invasion force grows geometrically - they have more children than any other group I know of - even the Irish now have small families. Their “anchor babies” votes are being used to take over the municipal governments from south to North CA. And no, they still don’t have to learn English. The campaigns are run in Spanish.

One by one our civil service, large unions, and schools and power structures (police, fire and courts) are converting to Mexican dominated societies all speaking Spanish.

Now many of these people are hard working. No one can complain if the US creates a power vacumn and another group moves in. Mexico is no more to “blame” for this than any other enemy state who has a conflict of interest with us over territory and resources. If we let it happen we deserve what happens to us.

When this invasion hits GA and the eastern and southern states with full force it will be interesting because that region of the country is not known to roll over and submit to foreign takeovers. But you will be fighting CA and California’s congressional delegation and voting block - which Mexico will eventually own. The Invasion lobby is far better disciplined and organized than the Black Civil Rights movement of the 1960’s and with their higher birthrate and immigration rates, you can do the math. I’d suggest you get Lots of uninsured motorist coverage… And drive a car with lot’s of crash protection.

Teachers who don’t fit in with the new demographic (see Los Angeles Unified School District racial demographics) will be replaced with teachers more to their liking.

Brave New World!

By Stephanie

June 27, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

SET:

Well said, sad but so very true. I will be one of many who fights back…

By teach

June 27, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

There is no one reason why these children are failing tests. There are a combination of reasons unique to each and every child. Sadly, when the kids get to school they often bring in so many issues that it is tough for the teacher to focus on teaching. One of the biggest differences that I’ve noticed is parents providing additional learning activities for their children. So much of true learning does not happen in the classroom, but rather in life. If these children are not given the chance to experience a variety of things like travel, museums, people with large vocabularies, etc., how do you expect them to learn everything in school? We only have them for a few hours five days a week. They need enrichment activities. Exactly what we are taking away to push some silly test in a couple of subjects. NCLB is simply leaving too many children behind.

By newly

June 27, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

Sometimes it is a combination. In my experience, some teachers do expect less and therefore give less. Also, some parents, due to overloaded schedules, lack of understanding, or both fail to make school a priority. In both instances the child suffers. It has also been my experience that some parents, due to lack of understanding of the education process, will hinder the teacher by demanding that the teacher not challenge the student. Teachers are sometimes put in a difficult position when they see children failing. Most teachers want to see the child do well but are, at times, handicapped by well-meaning but uninformed parents.

By ellen

June 27, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Do you all know that Hispanic students have begun outscoring African American students on standardized tests? Or at least scoring about the same. And at our school, generally speaking, the Hispanic parents are far more responsive to teacher’s concerns, far more likely to do what the teacher asks, and almost never miss the opportunity to scold their child if they get a phone call about behavior.

If you look at this years state CRCT scores, you will see what I am talking about.

http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/DMGetDocument.aspx/2006CRCTCharts.pdf?p=39EF345AE192D900F620BFDE9C014CE65F48E7E4CC6532400BB414488614F5043F4E903654DB3158&Type=D

By Rita

June 30, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

Ellen, My school has an extremely large English Language Learner population (majority Hispanic). This year we were allowed to read the test to many of our ELL students because it was written into their educational plan as a testing modification. I am sure this is why our ELL students did better this year.

By Rita

June 30, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

Ellen, My school has an extremely large English Language Learner population (majority Hispanic). This year we were allowed to read the test to many of our ELL students because it was written into their educational plan as a testing modification. I am sure this is why our ELL students did better this year.