Get Schooled

By Leia

June 20, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Go Crews Middle School!

By Jeff

June 20, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

Well, good news is I’ll only have about 90 kids - if that - next year…. better news is that only 10% of kids I’ll be getting failed CRCT this year… best news (for me) is that the teacher I’m replacing had 40% FAIL CRCT….

By Veteran

June 20, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

Great resource for nay-sayers of the idea that there is a HUGE discrepancy between East Cobb and West Cobb schools. This data needs to be used as a tool for Board members to study as they allocate teachers, determine class sizes, and fund programs. While East Cobb parents may not want to see fewer dollars go into their schools, West and South Cobb schools desperately need additional resources to offset the problems the teachers, students, and parents face on a daily basis.

By Thomas

June 20, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

Veteran,

I agree wholeheartedly. There is a HUGE discrepancy between East Cobb and South/West Cobb schools. The reason for the mind boggling test results put out by those East Cobb schools is for this one reason— THERE ARE MORE RESOURCES AVAILABLE AT THOSE SCHOOLS.

The resources they have are not better or newer buildings, more books or computers, or lots of extra (or even better)teachers and specialized staff. They don’t have any special academic programs to account for the phenomenal test scores. In fact, schools in high poverty areas have more sophiscated systems of instruction (America’s Choice, Learning Focused Schools, Direct Instruction (reading), etc).

What those schools do have is highly involved parents. These are parents who have been involved and motivated with their child’s education for YEARS (since birth). It is part of the culture for these people to promote and pursue excellent academic preparation in their child. High academic performance is important to these people.

By the way- these East Cobb schools are rare. They are a minority among schools. In the entire state of Georgia (181 systems), schools in East Cobb, North Fulton, Forsyth Co. rank among the top. These schools simply happen to be in neighborhoods of affluence and wealth.

By yep

June 20, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

Yep, Thomas you’re probably right. But since we can’t get the kids new parents, wouldn’t more school resources and more and better teachers be a start towards helping those kids?

I totally believe that the demographics of the school pretty much determine it’s destiny, but since the school system is limited in what it can do with demographic, as the recent McEachern controversy demonstarted so well, shouldn’t the system try to compensate in other ways to get the kids a good education?

By holdingAJC"accountable"

June 20, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

You want to improve test scores? Let me put it in terms so simple, even a Bush can understand: It’s the discipline, Stupid!

I’d like to see one poster who could honestly post the following:

The administrators had a consistent discipline plan. They gave teachers 100 percent back up on matters of discipline. Yet despite that, our school had failing scores.

My guess is that you can’t find a SINGLE failing school that had discipline totally under control. What does that tell you?

By Kage

June 20, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

What a great tool! Thanks for providing it. Yup, there were surprises for me within my county. I found the difference between the math and reading passing rates interesting. There was a pretty major gap in my district. I wonder what will happen when the math gps-crct is rolled out.

By RA

June 20, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Yep: When my family lived in California the state had a system in place that allocated more money per pupil to poor/low performing schools and less money per pupil to affluent/highly performing schools. Guess what? The affluent schools still did well and the poor schools did poorly.

In fact, in a weird way, it even made the good schools better because the affluent schools were sort of rallied by the discrimination and the parents worked together to raise money privately to buy books and extras.

I don’t know what the answer is, but I don’t think its only money.

By Jeff

June 20, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

Kage,

I thought it already was in certain grades?

Seriously though, I’ve been planning for next year already, and from what I’m looking at GPS is a piece of cake. I’ve basically got 5 main units, with a Process and Reading Across the Curriculum integrated throughout. Even with that, on my calendar right now I have 5 weeks of review AND finishing all GPS… BEFORE CRCT. (Review is broken into 2 weeks at beginning of school, 2 weeks at end of 1st semester, 1 week just before EOCT.) I know my schedule is pushing it, but I firmly believe that students rise to the level of expectations… and I’ve seen that in my classroom already…

By MMM

June 20, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the tool!

By Patti Ghezzi

June 20, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this

The curriculum and test changed in sixth-grade math…

By lynn d

June 20, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

Would it have hurt the AJC to turn the numbers around and show what percentage passed? For example, the schools where every student passed a certain test would be listed at 100%, this is far more positive than 0%. Also, it makes it much easier to pick up on dismal scores.

By teach overseas

June 20, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

Yep-

What do you mean by “better teachers”? Poor performing schools do seem to have a higher percentage of inexperienced teachers, but after a few years in the system, most of them move on to higher performing schools and “poof” their classroom expertise is magnified 10 fold. Are they really “better teachers”?

Well, yes, I have gotten better at my job over the years, but my classroom performance has moved from parole officer to dynamic, creative and introspective the moment I changed schools. Did I change that much? Not really, the quality of my students did.

It would be ideal if every inner city school could be filled with wonderous, inspiring and self-sacrificing teachers as seen in movies (and I know there are many of you out there!) But the fact is, teachers are people too, and after a few years of being abused, backstabbed and underminded, most just want to teach and we go into places (better performing schools) that allow us to do just that.

By Taxpayer

June 20, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

I wonder what will happen now to schools like Tucker Middle and Shamrock Middle that were overrun with NCLB transfers after school started last year. Crawford Lewis has said that he will push tutoring at schools in DeKalb that fail the CRCT instead of offering transfers (and paying for transportation for the transfers).

By Yep

June 20, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

I know that a teacher’s performance would seem to improve if he or she just moved to at school that was better demographically. I agree that the job of teaching is really different if you are at a low or high socio-economic school.

But that poor and minority school consistent get the newest and often least qualified teachers certainly doesn’t help them.

And by more resouces, I don’t just mean a blank check. The extras should be strategic. What if we set up more alternative schools, so these schools could remove students who were constantly disruptive? What if we allocated earmarked funds for extra assistant principals who just handled discipline?

I think one the main things that sets some kids back is that their home lives don’t allow them to be school ready. One of the ways this impacts learning is that kids act up in school. Part of me says, just kick the kids who act up out until they can do better, and the rest of the kids will see this will reform. Part of me thinks that if we do that we will pick more kids up in YDC and jail, and we’ll be paying for them someplace else.

What if we bought poor schools extra personel at the school level (not some educrat, but someone who works directly with kids) who dealt with some of these issues and the teachers just got to teach instead of being parole officers or social workers?

By Litmajor

June 20, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

This is quite a handy tool! Sadly, many of the scores confirmed what I already know about some of my county’s schools.

Thanks Patti and David. This is great to have while I’m looking at land to build on.

By Nel

June 20, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

Shamrock for one can’t take any more transfers because last year was a nightmare, and as we see, transferring hadn’t solved the problems. If you visit most of these failing schools you’ll no doubt quickly see the lack of parental involvement….ever been to one of their PTA meetings?

By MMM

June 20, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

I would still like to see these scores broken out by catagory. My school’s averages look average for Dekalb, but since we have such a huge number of just off the boat refugees, I bet that if you compared how we did with ELL kids, we would have to have done much better than the county that catagory in order to make the overall number “average”.

I guess I’ll have to wait for the AYP scores to find that break out. Any idea when they are coming?

By alice

June 20, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

It is interesting in DeKalb that the theme schools all have such high test scores. Do these schools get to kick out students who don’t perform academically? Does anyone know?

By Patti Ghezzi

June 20, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this

The AYP monster is scheduled for release sometime around the end of July…

By apple

June 20, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this

ALiCE…not only can they kick them out,..but students usually have to make a certain score in the area of the “theme” of the school to get in!!! Example, a science theme/magnet school would only accept students who already excel in Science. AND…TO HOLDING AJC ACCOUNTABLE: Discipline is very important…but if the 80% of the students in the school are limited English speakers..or if a large number are learning disabled or special ed….they won’t pass the test even if the kids respond to rules like trained seals.

By holdingAJC"accountable"

June 20, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this

To Alice: I would agree totally in the case of a school where 80 percent of the students are limited English speakers.

But overall: I would ask Patti to review notes and quotes from board members, superintendents and other education officials and see if ANY of them are willing to acknowledge the role of discipline, and propose meaningful reforms that would mandate increased administrative support of consequences enforced by teachers.

I won’t go so far to say it’s the only issue; but I would ask those who claim to care “for the children” when the issue that may have the biggest single positive impact is the ONLY issue that we aren’t willing to discuss?

By Jeff

June 20, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

Yep,

FYI: New teachers are sometimes FAR more effective than the old ones. I’ll be able to SHOW you this time next year, but the school I am going to - and replacing a teacher with more experience - had between 38 and 49 % of students FAIL my subject (math) this year. I’m extremely tough - getting an “excellent” from me is about the equivalent of a t-ball player hitting a walk off grand slam in Game 7 of the World Series - but I have the numbers to prove my approach works. (Though granted, even my numbers weren;t high enough for my standards, so I’ll be working in some new strategies in addition to my tough-as-nails approach.) Oh, did I mention that as of this past week I have exactly 6 months experience?

By Lee

June 20, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

Interesting tool to compare between school systems and counties.

But I have a question for you teachers out there. Many writers to this blog have opined that the CRCT test is very easy and if the student had a basic grasp of the core concepts, they should be able to pass. But yet, we see CRCT failure rates averaging 20 - 40%. If you went to these same schools, their retention rate may be 2-3%. From an outsiders perspective, this tells me that either A) the CRCT test is invalid and does not correlate to the core curriculum, or B) schools are passing students from grade to grade even though they cannot do the work. Probably a bit of both, IMHO.

My wife has told me on numerous occasions where she tried to retain a student but got overruled by administration.

One of the reasons we have all this testing is because schools didn’t do their job and retain those students when they needed it. Now, we have all these students failing these standardized tests because they can’t do the work. Sorta like the old chicken / egg analogy. Looks like the chickens have come home to roost……

By Dekalb Educator

June 20, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

My nephews attend Narvie J Harris theme school. They did not have to score for a “theme” the school was built on..etc…as a matter of fact, those schools are not built on a THEME…just basic back to the old ways of doing things.

Parents MUST join PTA or their child is out…Parents MUST volunteer x amt of hrs per year or their child is OUT.

Back when the first two were built (Edward L. Bouie and Marbut) the parents stood outside from early Friday afternoon until the doors opened on Sat morning, trying to get their child in. The younger siblings of the students already there were automatic shoe ins.

You see low failing rates because these parents DONT PLAY with their child’s education. These are the black parents that were sick and tired of dealing with sub par standards and wanted more for their children.

(my oldest neice started off in Edward L Bouie when they opened her 2nd grade yr..she just graduated from H.S. and is on her way to college with exceptional SAT scores)

By Dekalb Educator

June 20, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

@Lee…I teach 2nd grade and the ENTIRE TEST is read to them EXCEPT for the reading passage for Reading Comprehension. The questions are read, etc.

If the child had the appropriate listening skills, they would fare MUCH better. We deal with children who do NOT listen the first time..everything is ALWAYS repeated over and over and over…

And yes..the test is easy. I will NEVER forget one of the questions on the MATH portion that I read. “Such and such class had 25 students to go on a picnic. 25 Students brought their lunch. How many students brought their lunch? a) All of them? b) Some of them? c) None of them?”

I becamse FURIOUS when I saw some of my students bubbling in choices b and c. What MORE can I do? LISTEN! LISTEN to what I’m reading and saying and THINK!

By Yep

June 20, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Oh, sure some new teachers are fantastic. I wasn’t really trying to hold up the idea that new teachers are the problem. You are off to a great start, but don’t you think you’ll be even better in a few years?

It’s just that many stats indicate that high poverty/ high minority schools get more than their fair share of folks who are new to teaching, not fully qualified to teach, or ineffective. I’m sure there are many mid-career or near retirement aged folks who aren’t very good and many new teachers who are fantastic.

But when you examine the qualifications and backgrounds of teachers you don’t find an even distribution; you find that, probably because of the working conditions, high povery and high minority schools have higher turnover, more provisionally qualified teachers, and generally teachers with less experience teaching. You also find some teachers who stay in the job a long time primarily because they show up and don’t make waves, no matter that no one is learning anything.

(Again, I want to stress that I don’t think you could pick up the teachers at a great Forsyth middle school and place them in a Needs Improvement school and see much of a difference. The culture of the school and community would remain the same. The methods so successful in one community would fail in another.)

Many good teachers in bad schools are working much harder in worse conditions than their far-suburban counterparts to get much smaller results.

By Robert

June 20, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this

I teach high school (as most of you regualars know). I have always thought that the feeder middle school to my high school lacked in preparing the students - and the 8th grade CRCT scores prove this. How in the heck can high school teachers prepare high school students to have a chance of passing the high school graduation test with these math and science results from middle school?

I hope the school system sends us high school teachers some magic dust - and fast!

Please understand that I am not “blaming” middle school teachers but rather simply looking at the results.

By Jeff

June 21, 2006 08:42 AM | Link to this

Yep,

You should see the calls I’m STILL getting. Schools are getting DESPARATE for math teachers right now. I like my decision to go where I’m going, from what I’ve seen so far it is a PERFECT fit for me. HOWEVER, had I waited till about right now to make a decision of where to go, I could almost LITERALLY name the place in the state I wanted to live and get a job in that county or a county that borders it.

And I do apologize somewhat. I tend to get extremely defensive when people start trying to trash new teachers in any way. I’ve known some new teachers that didn’t need to be in the classroom, but then I’ve known several more experienced teachers that didn’t need to be there either. Yes, experience helps. I’m not gonna lie about that. I’ll be a better teacher when I step into my new classroom next month than when I stepped into my old one back in January. But as far as what makes a good teacher, I have to rely on an obscure line from a ittle known Christian band called Brother’s Keeper: “The Heart of the Matter is a Matter of the Heart”

By jim d

June 21, 2006 08:48 AM | Link to this

Now here’s a plan that’s sure to improve education and test scores in Gwinnett County.

“Thursday, June 22, 2006 The GCPS Board members will consider bids to improve lighting at Parkview High School’s stadium”.

Gee, and only a month or so after voting not to allocate any funds for the purchase of new text books.

Indeed this will make the kids smarter.

By Ernest

June 21, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

Alice and DeKalb Educator raise GREAT points regarding theme schools in DeKalb county. I personally detest using race as a consideration but I must in this case. Theme schools have become environments for black families seeking a rigorous and academically challenging environment for their children. Some may not qualify for magnet but they have the best resource available, active and involved parents. Unfortunately, the only families that can ‘legally’ take advantage of these schools are those that live within those clusters.

The interesting thing is ANY cluster can designate one of their schools as a Theme school. It would take a coordinated effort to do so. This might be a viable option for those families that don’t live in areas where they existing schools are located.

By unfair

June 21, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this

Why do Clarkston HIGH school and Cross Keys HIGH school have to be judged by their CRCT scores? They do not have a regular 8th grade. Instead, these two schools receive students who had little or no formal schooling in their native country but are too old to attend middle school. Yet, Cross Keys must be be judged by the small number of students who take the CRCT.

By the way, Cross Keys had one of the greatest improvements in GHSGT test scores this year (compared to other DeKalb schools).

By Dekalb Educator

June 21, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

Im BACK! Just came from my school and saw that all but ONE of my students passed the CRCT! (I teach 2nd grade). I am more than FLABBERGASTED at the report and quite satisfied. (grins)

@Ernest…my school’s PTA president a few yrs ago wanted to try to make my school a theme school. She saw how it had been tried and tested and proven to succeed..HOWEVER, how can you get the ball rolling when the crowd at a PTA meeting is non existent?

Our last PTA meeting this year yielded SEVEN parents..SEVEN! FOUR of those were PTA officers..(frowns)

By MMM

June 21, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

The theme schools are “used” by the system to reduce overcrowding. When my daughter was 3 I checked out the one we were elegible for and I was impressed. When she turned four I was told that due to the fact that an expansion was build onto our local elementary school, she would not be considered.

We need to start using them to set a higher standard of dicipline and high expectations for all willing families.

By Jeff

June 21, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

if (“theme schools” == “magnet schools”) Jeff says Aha!; else Somebody needs to exaplain “theme schools” to this math teacher…;

By Patti Ghezzi

June 21, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Jeff, a theme school has a special program and is open to all students within a wider attendance zone whose parents agree to the terms of the program. The schools serve as an alternative to neighborhood schools and relieve crowding without having to redraw attendance boundaries.

In DeKalb, the “traditional theme schools” require parents to volunteer and students to wear uniforms. There may also be a requirement that students do homework over the summer. If you are a parent who believes required volunteerism is an oxymoron and uniforms violate a child’s rights, these schools are not for you.

Parents sign a contract, and if they violate the terms of the contract the child may be sent back to the neighborhood school. (Right? someone correct me if I’m wrong on this point…)

The idea is to attract parents with a similar vision of what a quality school looks like. Theme schools are not about sorting kids by test score as some magnet schools do. But since parent involvement and high test scores go hand in hand, you do see a lot of bright kids at theme schools.

Some people say, “Look at those strong test scores at the theme schools. Every school should be a theme school. It obviously works.”

Well, obviously that logic doesn’t work…

By Nel

June 21, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

On the subject of Theme schools…At a meeting when he first took office, Dr. Lewis had said it was the will of the community. Unfortunately our community lasks the will when it comes to education. Look at the huge student transfer, they obviously thought moving their kids to North Deklab would make them perform better. We have ONE Theme Middle starting this year, and as far as I see it, we absolutely need many more to continue waht these children started in elementary school. Back to basics obviously works in Theme elementary, and after graduation these children go back into the general population. Dekalb County needs to think outside the box but the Board seems afraid to do so. Since the parents don’t GET IT, forget them and think about what’s best for the children. It’s the kids stupid! You may live in 500k home but but what’s the point of it all if you’re not keeping up on your children’s education. Many people I know move as soon as their children graduate from Theme elementary. People are realizing this and researcing before they buy in Dekalb. Not good for our property values.

By Dekalb Educator

June 21, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

@MMM…the system more than likely removed your local school from the “feeder” school list for that theme school.

theme schools do enforce he higher standards, etc. You are still required to wear uniforms, to volunteer the 16 hrs per school yr, if you arent there the 1st day of school, your child is OUT! They will go to the next child on the waiting list. (well, at least thats the way it used to be)

@Jeff..elementary and middle school theme schools focus on the basics. The H.S. that is in the works (planning) is supposed to be based on college prep. (if I am mistaken, I stand to be corrected)

By Nel

June 21, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

Patti, yes you have it right about returning to your neighborhood school if you violate the contract. And yes, this type of school is not for everyone. Our school has many, many children whose parents don’t speak English as a first language, and they excel and the reason is that they come from countries where education is your only way out of poverty. Ergo, parental involvement works every time!

By Jeff

June 21, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

Seems about right as far as the concept goes… now if only we could make ALL public schools enforce those standards… course, there was a time not TOO far back when those standards were the NORM…

By Ernest

June 21, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

I know we are getting a ‘little’ off topic but I like the dialogue going on regarding Theme schools in DeKalb. Patti’s last two paragraphs make a lot of sense. The data and subsequent analysis each of us performs should help us to ask better questions.

Because of the obvious success Theme schools have had with regards to the CRCT, we shouldn’t rush to convert all schools to that format. I believe we should ask more questions to understand the dynamics involved and see if it can be replicated at other schools. True, they were initally designed to provide population relief in overcrowded clusters. Designating an existing school in a cluster with a similar Theme accomplishes the same. I agree, why do we have to have a ‘Theme’ for parental involvement. This is where my naivete comes through.

DeKalb will be opening its first MS Theme at the old Stone Mountain MS site this school year. IMO, the only way to get a HS theme is to use an existing facility that may become available. I don’t believe the system would ‘build’ a school for this constituency. Again, this is my opinion.

By Nel

June 21, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

Ernest: If I’m not mistaken most of the Themes were new buildings. Although we the Stone Mountain Theme coming, it is only serving a very, very small fraction of the elementray Theme graduates. We need more Theme middle, but the will is not there. I’ve heard parents complain about going back into the mainstream in middle school, but they’d never lift a finger to fight for another Theme middle. The main point is not that Theme schools are better, but that parental involvement and CHOOSING to be a part of that environment. Another thing I’d say is that the Administration plays a major role in keeping things on track.

By Ernest

June 21, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Nel, you are preaching to the choir here :). Demand should create supply. Are there enough stakeholders advocating for this?

With my rose colored glasses on, I belive ALL schools have potential. The determining factor is the number of ‘willing workers’ each school has to help it reach its potential.

By jim d

June 21, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

Nel,

Can’t say as I blame parents for not being more involved when school adminstrations continue to treat tham like sh-t. Eventually people tire of it.

By MMM

June 21, 2006 06:20 PM | Link to this

If I were allowed to “think outside the box”, I would make stone mountain middle stay in that old building and give the new larger building on Idlewood over to the “parental contract/theme school contract concept” and fill it with those asking for NCLB transfers from Freedom and Stone Mountain middle schools in addition to those fed from the elementary themes. If Freedom continues to fail AYP, then their nice new, (but drained of transfer students) building should be given to whichever parents in the Stone Mountain and Clarkston area will sign a dicipline contract. Let the “I don’t care” families have the old smaller building that is presently stone mountain middle. This will cause a great uproar of “unfair” from the dregs—to which the administrative responce should be “Are you also willing to accept the same expectations for dicipline and effort from your own children? If so you may also transfer to the two new buildings” It has always amazed me how much envy will motivate a change of behavior . When/if the families that remain in the old Stone Mountain middle plant can’t change to the other buildings because they are full start complaining, they can then be told to choose to also convert to the higher expectations or the school will start being run as if it were an alternative school (which indeed it will be if it has the families that willfully won’t get with the new expectations.)

Sorry for any typo’s in the above rant.

I suspect that one of the reasons the district won’t supply the demand for this type of program at a middle school level is that these elementary students that are dropped back into the other failing middle schools help increase their chances of passing AYP, so the principals would rather they not have that option.

By Nel

June 22, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

MMM & Ernest, I’m a part of the choir and I did hope we would get the new middle school. I only wish ALL the parents who have children in elementary Themes would get together and demand more of this type of environment, unfortunately, there are many complaints but little or no actions.

I just read this article in the Washington Post and it is something our community needs to pay attention to: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/21/AR2006062101829.html

By racey

June 23, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

To all,

I wanted to clarify a few things about Theme Schools in DeKalb. Theme schools are lottery enrollments, not test-score contingent; and some are in high poverty areas (Robert Shaw, Hooper Alexander). The difference in test scores is a DIRECT RESULT OF PARENTAL PARTICIPATION. One is required to volunteer a minimum of 15 hours; and the principals, teachers, and staff hold high expectations for each child. No excuses are made for “poor Johnny, who lives with his grandmother because his mother is on drugs.”

When volunteer hour requirements are not met, the principal has the option of not re-enrolling that child. Each parent signs a contract agreeing to join PTA, volunteer, help their children with homework, and attend a field trip.

Magnet schools, on the other hand, require certain test score minimums for enrollment. These are highly motivated children anyway, so they would “get it” even if their teachers were not creative and “out-of-the-box” thinkers.

The proof is in the pudding…PARENTS MAKE A DIFFERENCE! I am a very proud parent of two theme school students; and I’m also an educator. I chose the school, not based on location, but environment and expectations.

By MrLiberty

June 23, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Well, you folks just keep patting yourselves on the back for the supposed “success” this shows for your kids’ school. Then read this article by a former New York State and New York City Teacher of the Year and see if you still think you’re doing the best you can for your child.

http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm

By Robert

June 23, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

MrLiberty…

First, I wonder what profession/job you have - please inform. You post more on here seemingly than anyone and I wonder what job allows you that luxury.

Second, don’t you get tired of beating that same drum of yours. I certainly get tired of your same comment over and over and over again. Me and many posters have asked for you to add some type of new information but instead you continue with your same theme. Are you really a one-trick poster?

Finally, many many other posters have tried to respond to you - and some with valid points that you chose to ignore in order to beat your same drum. Have you ever had any education, yourself, particularly on the art of communication?

By jim d

June 23, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

This from a message board somewhere in cyberspace.

STUDENTS CONQUER CRCT

http://www.voy.com/32130/25171.html

Be sure to read the follow up (Well okay, if you insist on facts) at;

http://www.voy.com/32130/25173.html

Pretty good stuff :-)