Get Schooled

By BlindHomer

June 16, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

No. So what if they move? The pursuit of perceived better schools and better neighborhoods is the American way. The blacks that have changed McEachern’s district to majority minority are doing the exact same thing, fleeing APS for better schools and better neighborhoods.

By Teacher Teacher

June 16, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

It cannot be “race blind,” very little is in our society. In any event, who said that racial balance is a worthwhile thing to seek. In schools where I have taught that have equal mixture of white and black, the students tend to segregate themselves according to race. Blacks sit with blacks at lunch and assemblies as do whites. Granted, there is some mix between the races, but when it all comes down to the basic truth, races sort themselves out based on race. How can the courts change this? It would take legal action mandating interracial union, even then, however, the children of such unions would probably sort themselves according to light/dark, as many blacks now do.

Neighborhood schools should be just that, neighborhood schools. Race should not be a consideration. Just simple logic should govern the drawing of boundaries. Geography should be the determinant.

Let us go beyond race. Can we?

By teach overseas

June 16, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

This question is like the one that being discussed about the homemade treats. In the interest of protecting the rights of the minority, do we go too far and always bow to their rights over the majority? Do those 300 white kids who were to stay at McEachern to bolster the white enrollment and subsequently, property values in the area have more rights than the combined school enrollment and homes and businesses affected? If keeping those 300 kids at McEachern stabalizes the enrollment and property values (hence tax money that goes to the school) should they not stay there for the common good? After all, McEachern was good enough before the new school was built. It’s not as though we were sending these children to some inner-city hell hole. Do we not care anything about the common good anymore? Is it really every man for himself? Is the edict of “I just want what is best for my child” become the overpowering mantra in our heads and we excuse the trampling of rights of others?

You as the parent are there to look after the rights of your child. The school board has to look out for the good of the whole. I give the board credit for looking out for the good of the county, and the suing parents, well, I guess now you can talk to your friends again at the tennis club and the booster club. You got what you wanted- even at the expense of others. But keep telling yourself- I just want what is best for my child.

By Jeff

June 16, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

I agree with TeacherTeacher…

How about we mandate that each ES must have the same base population within each district? (or cover the same land area, but I realized that it makes more sense to require equal population…) Each MS must then come from a set number of ES, not pieces, but whole ES. Each HS must then be drawn from a set # of MS…

Redraw disttricts with every census or with every new school built, but base it on the latest census numbers available every time….

By Mike

June 16, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

Looks like I just need to find my self an area with less black people to send my kid to school. I want my kid to learn math and reading, not how to be a gangster.

By SNY

June 16, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Mike,

You are an idiot. Please stay with the white people, we don’t want your *ss with us anyway if that is how you feel. All black people are not gangsters and I resent your statement.

By HA HA

June 16, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

Where ever Mike Kids go to school I want to make sure mine go as far away from them as possible. I would rather my kid grow up to be a gangster than a racist. Im sure you went to a white school and if your the product of “white” teaching then maybe we should review our entire school system!

By BlindHomer

June 16, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

teach overseas - Stay overseas! This is the land of freedom and opportunity, not some socialist state pursuing some ill-defined ‘common good’. It’s not about more rights for the 300, it’s about equal rights and freedom. Cobb was trying to deprive the 300 kids’ of their natural right to go to the school where they live, to meet the board’s idea of preserving the McEachern district. Lastly, in recent decisions involving everything from evolution stickers to laptops this board has shown they are the last people who should be making decisions about common good.

By decaturparent

June 16, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

Ooooh.. this is a touchy subject.

We in Decatur have a little experience with racial demographics in elementary schools. My kids’ school was almost entirely Black and over 75% FRL for a couple of decades and became about 50/50 Black/White within one year due to massive reorganization of the schools.

This blog prompted me to go check out the GADOL data to see if diverse schools produce better disaggregated results.

There is only one year of data to look at until the 2006 scores come out. However, from what I could see, there was no significant difference in the scores of Blacks or Whites after the school was “diversified.” Whites continued to have extremely high scores (in some grades nearly 100% of Whites exceeded standards on the CRCT).

Black achievement remained about the same with an average of about 91% of Blacks meeting/exceeding standards and about 29% exceeding standards.

From being in the classroom, I would say that there is still some segregation as far as playdates etc., primarily because it appears that most of the folks who walk to pick up their kids an spend time on the playground (where playdates are made) are mostly upper middle class White stay-at-home moms. In contrast, most of the Black parents pick up by car or have their kids in an after school program.

However, there are still many friendships that have formed across racial lines, and the kids seem to get along and mix very well during lunch, etc. Of course, the school only goes through 3rd grade, so I don’t know if this will continue as kids get older.

All in all, I’m not an enormous fan of racial preferences in any form because I would like to see our country begin to see individuals rather than “group members.” However, I have seen first hand that racial makeup of a school does not seem to effect achievement…. PROVIDED THAT teachers and administrators are high quality and there is a critical mass of involved parents.

There is the problem… from what I can tell, high poverty schools tend to also be mostly Black in the South. Schools with high poverty tend to have children with a whole slew of problems that make them difficult to teach. There are fewer teachers and administrators that are willing to deal with these problems everyday so they get a smaller pool of quality candidates.

Frankly, I don’t know how to fix it… One thing I do know is that NCLB is not doing a darn thing to help achievement of anyone… BTW, Patti - how about a blog on the Harvard Civil Rights Project’s study on NCLB that was released on 6/14. It shows that NCLB isn’t helping anyone - all that testing damage to the learning process for nothing!

By Jesse's Girl

June 16, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

Teacher Overseas…I’m afraid I agree with Blind Homer. Do you have children? I do. And I will do whatever it takes to ensure the success of my children…even if it means leaving your’s in the dust. I don’t care about the race of any child. Black, white, Asian, what have you….if the school that my children attend begins to experience a decline in scores, moral integrity, and especially safety….we will remove them from said school. It is well within the rights of these parents to move to another district if they feel like their child would be better served elsewhere. I am not concerned with your child’s education, that is your job. If you want to worry about the social implications of a one race school, then so be it. I am much more concerned the my child’s school delivering on a well rounded educational experience.

By Cory

June 16, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

Every poster here should read “Savage Inequalities” by: Jonathan Kozol. You will be left speechless.

By Cory

June 16, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

Jesse Girl, when you grow old your children will not be the only people around who will contribute to society. You should be concerned about the education of all children.

By Cory

June 16, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

This is for us fifty-something year olds out there. Do you remember when our generation wore long hair and bell bottom jeans etc? Did we all consider ourselves hippies because of our dress? Tell me, why in the he** do we call every black youth who sport hip hop fashions etc a “thug?” Outrageous PREDJUDICE - could it be?

By Jesse's Girl

June 16, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

Cory, do not misunderstand. I am concerned about education for all. But I am now and will continue to be MOST concerned about my own….as should you be. My children will not suffer through a school that has failed to meet the basics. Now granted, the basics are relative. But for those of us who have the opportunity to move our children to a better school…then why should you or anyone else have a problem with that? Please note, I said “better”…that does not imply the school must be new or all white, black, or..insert race here. I simply want an excellent school. If there was a school in my district that was 90% black but had impecable test scores…you’d better believe I’d enroll my children if the opportunity presented itself. For me, it is not about the racial make-up of a particular school…but about how well that school performs as a whole.

By Lynn

June 16, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

Mike is an idiot. Your kids are learning to gangstars from all that tv that you allow them to watch not from their peers at school. And face it we have just as much money as you have these days so we can afford to move to better neighborhoods that have better schools. Run, eventually you will run back. On another note for ever myth or stereotype that you have for blacks, we have 2 about you. I am fighting hard to keep your daughters away from my sons. And yes your daughters love the brothers.

By Jesse's Girl

June 16, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

@ Lynn…I agree that Mike is an idiot. But your previous post looks just as bad. Both of your comments go well beyond racism. It smacks of outright stupidity.

By PJordan

June 16, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

What the school board tried to do to the people in far W. Cobb was totally wrong and anyone that was having it done to them wouldn’t like it either and the school board didn’t like being told they couldn’t do it. Bottom line. They were trying to use these kids to keep the white enrollment up so that the remaining white enrollment wouldn’t move. Besides the judge ruled infavor of the parents on more reasons than race anyway. McEachern was going to open at capacity! Didn’t make sense.

By decaturparent

June 16, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Lynn and Mike - hopefully attitudes like yours will die with your generation. Neither of you would survive in the multicultural world that our children will live in - hopefully your children will learn a little about tolerance despite your efforts to the contrary.

By SNY

June 16, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

Trust me people, while we are sitting here talking about race, my child is at home (mostly white neighborhood) playing with her friends. BLACK AND WHITE. Leave these kids alone to become who God intended them to be.

By lynn

June 16, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

@Lynn, have 2 teenage daughters here & neither of them love the brothers. Where did you get your (ignorant) information?

By T-Man

June 16, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Race Race Race, Here we go again. Each person should be able to make their own choice when buying a home and choosing a school in the district. When making that choice because of race then the effect’s are 10 fold. Because their kid’s will learn from their parents and and do the same, then their childrens children will do the same. DO WE GET IT. Race will always be a factor that will burdon this country forever. Those that say why is it always a black/white/hispanic or whatever, can always blame the same folks who base their decisions on race. Let’s all be FRANK we all have friends who structure their conversations around race and we call them friends. Well I have been focusing on cutting those folks out my life knowing that is not the world in which I would like to live. Getting back to the real deal these folks based their decision on the new school boundries and not race. Please read it for what it is, the school board was forcing race on them.

By CobbMom

June 16, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Neighborhood schools should be comprised of the children of the neighborhood, whatever the racial percentages of the final group should happen to be. The prejudices of the parents should not be able to pressure the school board or the courts into changing the best geographical division for all students concerned, and for the parents to do so and the powers that be to allow themselves to be pressured and cave in to the parents’ petty, childish whims is irresponsible.

Not every black is a gangster, and not every white is the person you’d want your child to be around. Some of my best friends are black (speaking as a white woman), and some of the people I’d least like to hang around are white. Dividing schools along racial lines teaches our children that racism is correct, it teaches them that people of other races are different, and it shows their parents to be petty because they usually know better.

Grow up and do what’s right. Use our tax money for things that help, not hurt.

By BlindHomer

June 16, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

Cory, the McEachern school district is a long way from East St Louis. And even if the issue here was closely related to Savage Inequalities, which it is not, why do you think the children of East St Louis should be able to attend Exeter as readily as anyone else? They can’t afford it and, on average they’re not nearly as smart as the kids that do go to Exeter. News flash - everyone in this country is not entitled to the same standard of living, car, house, food, education, etc. just because we’re all Americans (or entered illegally). In this country, beyond a few basic guaranteed rights, you’re only entitled to what you can pay for.

By PJordan

June 16, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

I find it ridiculous to say that just because someone buys a home to go to one school they should not want to change to another school if the opportunity becomes available and it’s better academically for their kids. Ten years ago McEachern was a completely different school from today. Anybody that lives in the area would tell you that.

By Lola

June 16, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

I agree completely, BlindHomer. Parents have an obligation to do whatever it takes to ensure their children have as many opportunities as possible to make something of themselves, but unfortunately you have an entire generation of people out there who are spitting out baby after baby, with different daddies, with no regard for those childrens’ futures or path in life. It’s these kids who grow up with no sense of accomplishment and have the entitlement mentality that they are “owed” the same things as everyone else, which they are not. My husband and I saved for years in order to buy a house in an area where people shared our same values, and where the schools are second to none in terms of acedemia, and our daughter is now able to benefit from the sacrifices we made to get her there. Public funding for schools comes from the homeowners in the area of the school, and I would be furious if money were taken from me to be sent to some low-achieving school where it’s overrun by thugs and pregnant ninth graders with no intention on ever being productive members of society. If you pump more money into poor schools, it won’t change anything about the lack of motivation in the kids, the culture of entitlement that they’ve been taught by their own parents, and it won’t change the quality of the education they receive. If a child wants to learn, they will learn in whatever environment they are placed. If they don’t want to learn, you could put them into the best school in the country and it won’t make one bit of difference.

By PJordan

June 16, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

Why are the parents in far W. Cobb being portrayed as the villans when the School Board didn’t do their jobs? Otherwise the judge wouldn’t have sided with the parents for MANY reasons. Why wouldn’t all of the people of Cobb County be wondering why? Next time it could be in your area.

By Lola

June 16, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Basing anything on race is wrong, no matter if it’s school zones, political districting, school admission, job hiring, whatever. It’s wrong. Affirmative action is nothing but discriminiation, and I’m certain that blacks wouldn’t appreciate being denied things simply because people have to meet a “white quota”. We’re all created equal and race should never ever be a factor when deciding anything.

By Mad Dad

June 16, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Echo Mill is closer to McEachern by almost a mile by the way you have to drive to get there, so what is this about the new school being the “neighborhood” school of those “West Cobbers”?

By Lola

June 16, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

Hater, at least your name is honest. Crawl back under your rock, okay?

By Mad Dad

June 16, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

Quote “By Hater - Blacks need to go find their own little place somewhere… far away from real people. They are breeding like rats and move here…. our schools are overrun with them and they cause all the trouble and fights and disrupt classrooms! Get out of here!”

Man do you have real problems dude! Perhaps you are the one that should “Get out of here”!

By Ellen

June 16, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

Lola

In Georgia, public funding for schools come from all taxpayers in the district as well as state and a small amount of federal funds. Your property tax dollars go into the total pot for your school system, they don’t specifically support your neighborhood schools.

I think, especially at the high school level, we need public school choice. Require all high schools to meet different (and some similar) needs and let the students choose where they want to go. Do they want 40 AP courses to choose from or perhaps a strong vocational program with a focus on cosmetology? Is a certain program worth the effort to travel across the county — perhaps if the focus is aeronautics and that is the student’s interest?

The chips will then fall where they will and all students just might be better off.

By Sara

June 16, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Cory. I couldn’t have expressed it any better. I had to read an excerpt of Kozol’s Race and Ethnic Relations. I found it an enlightening read as well.

I’m grateful that I didn’t attend any of my neighborhood schools. Perhaps that’s a bit elitist to say, but I simply had more opportunities opened up to me by attending out of my zone. I was able to mix with a variety of children of various races, cultures, and socioeconomic strata. I played with white, upperclass kids and Vietnamese immigrants who’d come to America with the shirts on their backs.

As I progressed through middle school and high school, however, I faced, well, black kids who hadn’t started in the out-of-zone schools back in kindergarten or 1st grade. Some of them brought an attitude and a mentality to school that I didn’t appreciate. I felt the impact of that more in middle school. In high school, they weren’t in very many of my classes [AP, IB, honors, orchestra, Latin — I mean, come on.]

I don’t know what to say about this issue. I’m just as black as the day I was born, and I know that I benefitted from attending a school out of my district. Attending more racially diverse schools was a real blessing to me. I’m not a thug, and I’d look silly if I tried to be one! [C’mon, I play the violin and I like Neal Diamond. And country music. Ahh, country music. :sigh:]

Reading these blogs, I get the sense that folks in general in the metro area — well, white folks, anyway, get the sense that black people are angry, stupid, and violent. And I get the sense that black people feel somehow inherently entitled because of their blackness. Both give me an uneasy feeling about life in this metropolitan area. Is there really this much distrust, hate, and discord over issues of race and school? Why are we all so afraid of and angry with each other?

I think I missed a memo when I entered the world back in ‘81.

By lynn

June 16, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

@Lola, I’m sorry but I disagree with your comment based on facts. My 14 year old daughter went to middle school in SE Rockdale which once was a upper scale area in the county. Within 2 years the school became what I would call a slum infested area. She started to dress down, use language she never even knew the meaning of and her grades dropped so low she had to go to summer school just to pass the 8th grade. She moved from her dad’s to my home which is one county away & immediately changed. She is now considered one of the preppies (not sure if the best word) and makes all A’s & B’s. She’s also one of the few in Georgia that passed the standard testing to get into high school. Her environment motivated her for changes to the better.

By PJordan

June 16, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

Actually there are several ways to get to Hillgrove so if you went different ways it may or may not be closer than if you were going to McEachern first. Either way we’re only talking a few miles different. Besides I think it would depend more on the way the buses went.

By Lola

June 16, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Sara - there’s nothing elitist about being happy that you were given the chance to attend schools outside of your zone. Be proud of that! It doesn’t make you elitist to take advantage of good educational opportunities. It makes you a smart woman.

By lynn d

June 16, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

From the Ed Trust, a new report about the poor quality of teachers in schools that are majority minority and/or poor.

http://www2.edtrust.org/EdTrust/Press+Room/teacherquality2006.htm

My children attend a very diverse school. While there is still an achievement gap, sometimes significant, without a doubt students who don’t have a parent to advocate for them benefit because many parents do advocate.

Our PTA raises money to support our school’s instructional program and teachers. Parents let the administration and teachers know when expectations aren’t being met.

By Lola

June 16, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

@Lynn - your daughter obviously has brains and a good head on her shoulders, as well as a propensity to learn, which is how she pulled herself back into shape once she moved. I would venture a guess that you also encourage her a lot to achieve and study, which unfortunately a lot of children don’t get at home. While I don’t doubt that her school environment contributed to her changing her ways, I wonder if perhaps you’re a bit more focused on education than your ex-husband, and therefore more demanding of her in terms of excellence at school, appropriate behavior and language, etc. Is any of that right or am I way off base here?

By PJordan

June 16, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

Sara, You seem like a pleasure but unfortunately not the typical McEachern student.
Lynn, I fear that may be the case with this school after next years Senior graduating class are gone and people start moving out of the district. Time will tell.

By teach overseas

June 16, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

Blind Homer-

America’s public education system is the largest socialist program in our country! There is no right to a public education guarenteed in the Constitution. Free public schools were established because an educated populace is a key componet of a flourishing, democratic, capalistic society.

You and Jesse’s girl demonstrate the “Me First” and “I Got Mine” mentality that is narrow minded, arrogant and downright dangerous in a gobal, multi-cultural society.

Travel around the world a bit and you will find it is the most corrupt, self- serving and undemocratic societies that attempt to hijack publically funded institutions to further their own needs and attempt to leave others “in the dust”.

By BlindHomer

June 16, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

Good point PJordan, but that was going to happen anyway! The McEachern district, like many others in Metro Atlanta, is going to become more and more black no matter what the school board does. How long do you think it would have taken the families of the 300 to move if the decision hadn’t been reversed? They were trying legal approaches to keep their homes and neighborhood and if that failed they would have started moving away in droves anyway.

By Tony

June 16, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

There is a case currently before the Supreme Court from Seattle, Washington with similar race-based issues. It will be interesting to see how the courts decide.

By Chad

June 16, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

I think that whether they draw the lines based on race or not, the separation happens naturally if they don’t do it when drawing the boundaries, since as we’ve seen so many times, both blacks and whites tend to agree on these boards that most feel comfortable with their own types. Not to say people are all racist people, but it’s true, birds of a feather flock together (both black and white birds), and it’ll happen whether it’s done now or naturally done later.

By Lola

June 16, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this

it is the most corrupt, self- serving and undemocratic societies that attempt to hijack publically funded institutions to further their own needs and attempt to leave others “in the dust”

Thank you, teach overseas. I think you just described the majority of teachers’ unions to a tee.

Our education system would improve overnight if teachers unions would allow vouchers and competition in public schools, rather than keeping the system as-is in order to keep the bad and underachieving teachers from having to be accountable for it. Teacher pay would also increase, because the good teachers would be rewarded for their level of educating, and the bad teachers would either have to get better or find another line of work.

It’s really disheartening when I hear about teachers unions using political influence to stop measures that would only help the kids in our public school systems get a better chance at a good education, no matter where they live.

By Jeff

June 16, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

lynn,

Email me at ajc_jeff@yahoo.com… if your daughter is in HS, she might have had me this past semester (if she had a amth class)…

I proposed a somewhat radical idea in my 11:04 post, one that would eliminate all this hassle (I think!). While even more radical in its area-based variant rather than the officially proposed population-based, maybe it would actually work…

By PJordan

June 16, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

I agree Chad. It’s much easier to swallow when it’s not shoved down your throat.

By Filster

June 16, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

Just read this blog. SNY, to try and explain Mike’s comments, I also find it a mystery that a lot of black youths accuse other black kids who really hit the books of “acting white.” Growing up in the burbulent 60’s and early 70’s, it was also preached to me that education was key, as in “free your mind and your @ss will follow.” Somehow, I think that if all the kids in schools really tried to learn as much as possible and get as good a grade as they can, perhaps all these racial divisions in the cafeterias, auditoriums, etc. would lessen (but probably never disappear). Don’t know if Mike is an idiot or not, but he has a point in a roundabout way.

By Fred

June 16, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

Mike, You are no idiot, you are only realistic. Liberal, politically correct, bleeding hearts are the first ones to move out when Blacks move in.

By worriedmom

June 16, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

I agree with Jesse’s Girl. My family and friends and I have discussed topics such as this at length. Do you leave your child in a school that is academically less favorable to support the school district or do you move them to a school that is offers them a better chance at success? Race should never be a factor in any decision. You do what’s best for your child.

By lynn

June 16, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

@Lynn, yes that would play a huge part in her success, however, the influence she was getting from the children around her did as well. Home & school environment both play a role in my opinion. Like they say, lay with dogs & you get fleas.

By frank123

June 16, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

Agree with Mike and Jesse’s Girl. The key is to worry about the safety and education of your kids. Some kids have not been taught by their parents to respect their teachers and not act up in class. They disrupt the class so no one can learn. You don’t want to make your kids part of any social experiment to make up for the lack of parenting and parent involvement by some. I would move ASAP if there was a safety/education problem.

By apple

June 16, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

Patti….DECATURPARENT asked that you check into and do a story on the Harvard study released 6/14….that’s a great idea….but add to it the one also from Harvad last year that demonstrates that the best instruction is going on in NCLB’s so-called “failing ” schools…and the high achieving schools are just maintaining what they received from the parents..

By Patti Ghezzi

June 16, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

Hi all, I promise I’ll check out the Harvard study after I get out from under CRCTs. Coming next week: School-by-school scores, hopefully with a searchable database. How cool is that?

By Brainiac

June 16, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this

Lola,

I think its hilarious you have problems with affirmative action whne it has benefited white women more than anyone. If it wasn’t for affirmative action, you would probably be barefoot and pregnant feeding the pigs in the West Cobb hills.

What I find funny is most of the people on this list are 40+ and have failed to realize there have been at least two generations of a black middle class. There are many black children who know nothing more than success. Their grandparents were professionals, their parents were professional. These children don’t talk slang, take AP classes and play the violin. As much as Sara might think she’s a novelty, she’s not. I myself played the cello, was on the speech tean. and took Japanese classes as did the rest of my friends who were all black. I’m sorry that Sara feels so different and doesn’t know who she is. It sounds as if she wants to keep herself different and that’s not good.

I think that white kids can be just as much as a bad influence and its not by blacks kids they go to school with but with the crap these corporations shove down their throats of the “ghetto” and “ganster” lifestyle they glamorize.

By Justin

June 16, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this

The choice is up to the parents. If they can live with the lower test scores, guns and fights, then it is up to them. The schools should enforce a dress code to elimate the gang attire of white t-shirts and baggy pants and once these trouble makers get out of line they should be expelled. It is not about being black, it is the Hip-Hop attitude which brings down the good kids. Black and white kids would be fine together without the tension of fights and violence, which once again, goes back to the Gangster lifestyle.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

June 16, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

SET - This is your kind of topic. I thought you would really have fun today.

As for the topic, I think that the demographics of all school systems will be very different in the next 50 years. There has been a slow decline in the number of pure races, where OTHER or MIXED has increased. The hispanics are going to change it considerably.

I’ll have the last laugh on this one.

You can’t keep moving away. Just as the demographics at McEachern changed, so will Hillgrove. It might take 10 years, but it will happen.

By Fred

June 16, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this

This BLOG would not be necessary if we were still living in the greatest years of the SOUTH,the 50s. Atlanta was a beautiful city back then(now its a toilet waiting to be flushed)and ALL schools were safe, if you think they’re safe now, why don’t you check them out.And please no remarks from SNY or Lynn. Mike is not an idiot. If you had lived in the 50s and attended school before INTEGRATION turned most schools into cesspools, you would not be venting, you would know the TRUTH. America was better off when everyone had separate schools, restaurants,churches,parts of town etc etc. Poor DENNY’s is always a target for easy money from ,well we know who. Have a nice day.

By Brainiac

June 16, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this

Fred,

I guess those great schools of the 50s forgot to teach you the South lost the War!

By not left behind

June 16, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this

Fred, is your last name Flintstone? Who got that darnfangled computer of yers hooked up?

By ed

June 16, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

Mad Dad you are right about distance, McEachern is just as close to Echo Mill as to Hillgrove. This is about race,money and power. Ehrhart to say he wants the community to come together now is BS. Echo Mill residents knew when they moved there which school they would go to and did not have a problem it then. I think it is very sad to teach our kids that when things don’t go your way try a lawsuit. I am middle class and would do anything for my children but this is the REAL WORLD. No it is not always a happy place but you have a choice what you would like to do with it. There is white trash just as bad as bad blacks but there is ALSO good in BOTH Races including other races. Unless you live in a shell you will have to learn to interact with society. The kids will be the one to suffer in the end. When the school starts at capacity how are the going to feel in a year or two that they spent tax dollars fighting to get their kids into the NICE NEW WHITE SCHOOL and they are attending classes in trailers!!! WEST COBB WILL NOT STOP GROWING!

By findingmyway

June 16, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

I don’t blame the parents one bit for wanting to move out of the McEachern district. That low income ghetto black mentality has hurt the school. These kids don’t want to learn and think they are entitled for everything. Let them come up to a high end northern school. They would be out the door and the parent’s threats to sue based on race would fall on deaf ears. They would not care one bit. What a mess this low income factor has made in Cobb

By PJordan

June 16, 2006 06:30 PM | Link to this

ed, I don’t see how any kids will suffer. McEachern was going to open at capacity before the lawsuit with no relief in sight and Hillgrove waaaay under. Now the enrollment numbers will be more even. Along with more permits to build in the McEachern district than Hillgrove.

By ellen

June 16, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this

Hey, Patti… Have schools even had time to verify the scores? I thought they had until July. Why would the AJC push to publish scores that haven’t been verified yet?

Just wondering.

By Fred

June 16, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this

To Brainiac. Would never had been a war between the states if not for ———- (you know who) and to (not left behind) the folks here at the nursing home in Guad,Mexico set the puters up fer us that can read and write.

By great opinion

June 16, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this

Segrgrate the schools again. PLEASE. That would work just fine by me. The ghetto blacks can stay on their side of town go to their own schools, participate in thuggary, and go no where. Those blacks that do want to act white should then attend the white school. That is the way it is up in CT and my friends take a look at test scores up in that state. THERE ARE NO ISSUES.

By Ann

June 16, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this

I moved from GA to CA 10 years ago and my son has had to attend a school that is 75% asian. Over the three years of middle school he has been ridiculed, teased and bullied for being caucasian. During black history month, the teacher would talk about the southern white man and the kids would act as if my son was the cause. His high school will be 1/2 white and I for one am looking forward to the change. Diversity is good but don’t for one minute think that there is not reverse discrimination and don’t for one minute think that the kids are not the ones who are suffering.

By apple

June 16, 2006 06:49 PM | Link to this

Well …the schooling in the 50’s….taught both black and white…though segregated….multipication tables….standard American English..addition, subtraction, multiplication, division…[long and short] and how to balance a checkbook….BUT./…SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY WRONG TODAY..not in affluent schools…but in those schools with majority populations that are black and other..I THINK IT IS THE MISGUIDED EMPHASIS ON ..DARE I SAY IT….SELF ESTEEM…and as the administrators in Dekalb are always pushing….OFFER THE STUDENTS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SUCCEED !!! Which, in the classroom, in order to please the IVORY TOWER ADMINISTRATORS….turns out to be….give 25 points for bringing a pencil…give 25 points for having a paper signed…and tell the kids “YOU’RE WONDERFUL’….even if you don’t put forth any effort…never do homework….never study for tests. AND THE TEACHERS FAILURE RATE….OH MY GOODNESS..THERE IS SOMETHING VERY WRONG WIHT THE TEACHER…IF THE FAILURE RATE EXCEEDS THE STANDARD….EVEN IF THE STUDENTS PUT FORTH NO EFFORT ..CANNOT READ…CANNOT WRITE A GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT SENTENCE……On teacher evaluations….you must demonstrate praise for answers that are outrageous….I WOULD NEVER WANT MY CHILDREN OR GRANDCHILDREN IN DEKALB…The teachers in Dekalb have a great analysis…THE FIRST 10 YEARS YOU TEACH, YOU THINK YOU CAN SAVE THE CHILDREN…THE 2ND 10 YEARS YOU TEACH …YOU THINK YOU CAN CHANGE THE SYSTEM…THE THIRD 10 YEARS YOU TEACH, YOU JUST WANT TO GET THE H—- OUT OF THERE AND HOPE YOU CAN AFFORD FOR YOUR GRANDCHILDREN GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOL!!!

By great opinion

June 16, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this

Ann

I can completely understand. There is reverse discrimination. My child was called a stupid white boy(he is in the ALP) classes by a low life ghetto black kid who has been held back for two years. THE SOUTH should really take a look at the NORTH and see how well THEY do it. No wonder we are 45 in the nation.

By Fred

June 16, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this

SNY,BRAINIAC & NOT LEFT BEHIND, Education really helps the black folk, all you have to do is watch COPS,AMERICAS MOST WANTED, THE FIRST 48 hours , any local news paper etc etc,read FBI CRIME reports to see who commits 75% of ALL crime, check prison population at 75% black and someday you’re face the truth about how great INTEGRATION made America. Its never going to get better there, its only getting worse as each day passes. I moved here to Mx 18yrs ago from Atlanta and because of illness am now spending my last days in a nursing home, so please forgive an old dying man who moved here because of all the above. God bless you, have a long life and my time is up on this puter. If I wake up tomorrow I’ll read my AJC and maybe this blog will be done with.

By great opinion

June 16, 2006 06:56 PM | Link to this

Ann

I can completely understand. There is reverse discrimination. My child was called a stupid white boy(he is in the ALP) classes by a low life ghetto black kid who has been held back for two years. THE SOUTH should really take a look at the NORTH and see how well THEY do it. No wonder we are 45 in the nation.

By BC

June 16, 2006 06:57 PM | Link to this

This country has such a fixation with race. There are many many blog that go on everyday and the ones that talk about race gets the most postings. Why is that? Do we hate each other that much? Having black and white kids going to school together only ultimately shows the kids how much more different we really are contrary to what the school board and other organizations want you to believe. Kids typically seperate to their own race, call it a pack habit. Changing our opinion of each other really starts with the parents not the kids.

By bdj-durham

June 16, 2006 07:04 PM | Link to this

I am 49 years old and moved to Athens, GA from Chicago the first year of force integration in the South (1969). To everyone’s amazement, it was simply fascinating and shameful that all the “minority” schools were suddenly renovated and upgraded after years of neglect. Dirt parking lots were paved, central heat/airspace replaced solidary heaters, new books suddenly became prevalent, and decrepit schools were simply shutdown, be they all minority schools. Burney Harris High School was even provided a trampoline though previously it was considered a dangerous liability to provide such a amenity. Predominantly white Athens High School always had a trampoline. I guess Blacks were not sophisticated enough to manage a trampoline.

Those of us who do not suffer from selective amnesia, know what happens when racial balance is intentionally engineered to give one group an advantage over another. Then it is easy to blame the victim and say see, I told you they are not deserving.

But on the other hand, racial school integration has not done much for Black children in general.

Gone are the caring and fostering Black teachers that taught you the need to be twice as good just to get what you deserve but were just as quick to administer the harsh discipline to keep you in line. They didn’t suspend you to walk the street (never understood the rational) but dealt with you the way your parent would have with no remorse. They wouldn’t hesitate called your parents or mentioned your transgression before or after church service to your chagrin. Ms. Gay could could snatch you off a your high horse with a tactful tirade of meaningful, hard hitting words.

These are the teachers you later grew to respect once you got older and understood the world they were preparing you to face. It was not simple about test scores. It was about caring, life, and how to succeed. They’ve been replace with “no tolerance” rules, standaridize test that label you stupid, low graduation rates, and “minority” Assistant Principals whose role it is to insulate the hierarchy from perceptions of racial profiling and discrimination.

The result is a far higher percentage of minority kids on the street and on track for populating the prisons and jail cells that are being built at a record pace.

So the moral to this story is if you are a “minority” in Cobb County, I wouldn’t be too concerned about white flight because life has told me you can not change another person’s perception of you nor should you spend much energy trying. By the way, what does that say of you if you perceive your child can not learn unless they sit next to a white child. Instead, you should focus your energy on ensuring your child understands the true ways of this world, teach them to strive for excellence, ensure your child’s school is properly funded/staffed, and ensure the best teachers (caring but tough) are assigned to teach your child. Then send them to Morehouse, Spelman, FAMU, Hampton, Howard or some other deserving HBCU for a true life perparation and education!

By SET

June 19, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

I love it when Patti (reluctantly?) introduces a race tinged topic on this blog - and the words fly.

My first point, people on this blog who resort to name calling because they dissaprove of someone else’s point of view tell us volumnes about themselves and their level of culture. This is a public discourse blog about public policy and if you can’t stick to public policy debate and ignore the personalities it’s clear to me the speaker is either a child, low class, uneducated, or worse.

And I’m speaking from having grown up in Northern CA during the early 60’s racial battles over integration. I have learned the hard way that “Liberals” are some of the most dangerous people on the planet - remember “National Socialism” ? And that their tactics to silence opposition belies any notions of honesty and civilization. Behind their facade of alturism is a pure lust for power and domination. Thus the unbridled emotional reactions whenever confronted with defiance.

Yes education public policy is all about race because the whites have already fled the urban public schools and with them the brighter blacks and the Jews and Asians - all the groups with the higher IQs who have no problem seeing the next moves on the chess boards and getting their children clear of the carnage.

That leaves the public schools in most urban settings as a lowest common denominator of children on the left side of the bell curve. There are ways of dealing with the left side of the bell curve to keep them functioning and to integrate them into society. Letting them run the place is not one of them.

That means, quite frankly, that the public schools, especially the high schools should not be a happy home. Doing anything the lowest common denominator wants is a great way to seal their doom.

And it doesn’t make for good working conditions for good teachers either which is why you’re not going to keep any of them for long.

As long as the debaters here think of all this as some battle between good and evil nothing is going to change except the rich get richer and the poor get more children.

Everyone has a right to act in their own self interest - and the world does not revolve around the interests of blacks. The very notion of an ethnic group as a protected class is silly. As far as the “Gap”, so much is now documented worldwide with data going back to WWI that no one of good will can ignore the existance of the Gap or claim it is an acquired condition. If you keep thinking that - you get what you deserve and so do your constituients. This isn’t about good and evil, it’s about what works and what leads to this racial disaster we see in our cities.

This country has Freedom of Association in the national Constitution and not Affirmative Action. The US Supreme Court just threw out knock-notice on search warrants - you should be able to see the way the wind is blowing. We tried “protecting” blacks starting in the 1960’s and you all see what the protection has done for them. If this goes on they will be dead, institutionialized or intermarried out. This was not true in the period before the “Great Society”. When bastardy rates were falling and literacy was rising.

Remember the pace of change in the USA is accellerating. Follow the trends for the last 60 years out for the next 10 or 20.

If people want things to get better for anyone or everyone it’s time to make it brutally clear to the public school constituiency that you only have a certain period of time to get fluent in english and acquire whatever skills you are capable of learning to stay out of trouble and to make a place for yourself in society. This means removing from the normal schools anyone who is disruptive or incapable (and why they have a problem doesn’t matter - they have to go elsewhere to save the rest).

But stop expecting any child of any color with an IQ of 80 to sit in an algebra class. Stop trying to teach economic theory or history to IQ’s of 85 or whatever the appropriate level required to perform those subjects are. It makes them frustrated, angry and violent to have to sit there and fail. Better concentrate on speaking English properly and reading and writing. And I have news for some of you - they will not pass any comprehensive High School graduation test if their IQs are this low. But they can be trained for semi-skilled labor.

There are other things dull children can learn that keep them interested and allows them to support themselves - including being taught to shut up and follow orders.

Many of you see these debates and think that the situation can be reconciled and we continue as we are. If the studies from the line of research anchored by “The Bell Curve” are correct, only one black out of 6 in the USA reaches or exceeds an IQ of 100. The numbers are significantly worse for every African Nation. And because of the principle of regression to the norm - the children of the higher scoring blacks even if both parents are high scorers will still tend to average towards the ethnic norm.

Which is involved with the statistic of the poor white children outscoring on the average the wealthy black children. And you wonder why some people marry a Scandavian Nanny.

It’s against the backdrop of these numbers we turn to the public schools and the national averages (school scores to prison beds) and see what is going on. So what to do? Let’s not immigrate tens of millions of higher average IQ Hispanic-Indians with intact family structures and build expensive prisons for 25 to life sentences for shoplifting - while outsourcing all our manufacturing jobs and superinflate the currency.

Brave New World.

By Hazzy

June 20, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

Fred, I must disagree with what you said. If this were the 50’s your child would not be receiving the education that he or she is now getting. Education changes with society. Your child is being prepared for the real world by being exposed to many cultures. America will never go back to the way things used to be and America will never be run by an all white administration ever again. The glass ceiling broke a long time ago and we as concerned parents should prepare our children to interact with those of different minorities, in order to be successful in this world. America was not “better off when everyone had separate schools, restaurants, churches, and parts of town”, there is a beauty in seeing the world through someone else’s eyes or looking at a situation from a different point of view. If everything in the world were the same, then this world would be a very monotonous place to live. Just because someone is black does not make them unequal. I am a very educated, smart white women who is married to an amazing black man who shares in my views, positive outlook on life, and has dedicated his life to working with others and underprivileged youth of all races. In addition, I have two bi-racial children who have never exhibited a “thug” mentality yet you would judge my husband and my children if I were not present with them just because of the color of their skin. My son is the most polite young man you will ever meet. He opens the car door for his mother, refers to adults as sir and mame, and is kind to all around him AND he is half black. Atlanta is still a beautiful city one in which people are moving to each day and the diversity is just one aspect to its beauty. I do not view society as a “cesspool” rather a place where I can make my mark on this world and challenge it for the better. I entered the education field to make a difference in society and educate all students regardless of race. I will continue this and I truly hope that your view will change as you progress in an ever changing society.