Get Schooled

By A Middle School Teacher

June 6, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

As I read some of the messages written on the comment board, my heart breaks. I am a middle school teacher who has done her best to work with all of my students to not only improve test scores, but to prepare them for life. I work a 60 hour week and get paid only for 40. I come early and stay late to help students who need help. I get 20 minutes for lunch WITH supervising my students, and don’t really have a break to speak of all day long. Either I am in a meeting planning my next lesson, or meeting with a parent. I can’t work harder than I am. And the parents of my students will agree to that!

I understand that some people are upset about not receiving CRCT scores until the last minute. I am, too! As of our last working day, the scores had not been mailed to us. So to the response to the parent who was complaining about last minute notification… I’m right there with you! But that’s not the real issue with the CRCT.

We review and review content information for the CRCT throughout the year. Most of my students know the content concepts. However, the practice questions that they give us reflect with almost every comment a child makes to me after taking the test… “I didn’t understand what the question was asking.” It’s the wording of the questions that make it so hard, which leads me think… are we testing if they know the concept or if they can figure out what the question is asking. This might be why so many black and English as a Second Language students fail the test. The questions are culturally biased.

Also, looking at WHO failed the CRCT… It’s the very same students who don’t turn in homework, have over 10 days of absences, we can’t get parents in for a conference, AND when we do the parents are unsupportive. I actually have had a parent refuse to let her son do any homework because it’s “family time.” If parents are not going to be at home to encourage kids to do homework and study, then there’s nothing I can do. I can’t go home with every student to make sure they have the reinforcement that they need. And some students are so unmotivated that it doesn’t matter what I do or how I present the material, they refuse to engage. You can’t force a horse to drink water!

And why do scores drop among middle school students? You don’t have one if you have to ask! All they think about is the opposite sex, who is dating who, etc. Hormones have kicked in, their brain’s not growing when their body is, and we’re asking them to learn?

Why are 6th grade Science and Social Studies scores low? Because an average elementary school teaches 1 hour of EITHER science OR Social Studies a day, if that because there’s this big focus of “get the reading and math scores up or else! The first time students are really introduced to these concepts in depth is 6th grade. THAT is something WE CAN change.

Also, why are we expecting special education students to perform at the same level as regular students? That’s like saying you want a man who has no legs to jump. They can do it, but it’s hard and not as high. The whole point of being labeled Special Education is that there is something medically different that KEEPS them from being able to perform at a normal level. So why do they get a normal student’s test then punished when they don’t perform as a normal student?

What are we REALLY testing? Are our tests REALLY seeing the progress that these students are making or just comparing them to someone more successful? I’d rather praise a student who has improved their reading level by 2 grades in one year than to punish them because they are still a grade level behind. And to punish teachers because of unmotivated students and parents… hhuumm… maybe THAT’s why so many good teachers leave and find another profession where their time and effort is valued.

By Paula

June 6, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

well said by ” a middle school teacher”, from a parent who is a high school teacher. The response we get form some parents is ” I cannot do anything with him/her” which leaves the high school teacher with little help. I will still get blamed for the 9th grader who failed the EOCT in Algebra 1 after he failed all of 8th grade math.

By Robert

June 6, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

Middel School Teacher writes…. “Also, looking at WHO failed the CRCT… It’s the very same students who don’t turn in homework, have over 10 days of absences, we can’t get parents in for a conference, AND when we do the parents are unsupportive. I actually have had a parent refuse to let her son do any homework because it’s “family time.” If parents are not going to be at home to encourage kids to do homework and study, then there’s nothing I can do. I can’t go home with every student to make sure they have the reinforcement that they need. And some students are so unmotivated that it doesn’t matter what I do or how I present the material, they refuse to engage. You can’t force a horse to drink water!”

I believe that this sums it up more than anything!!!

I teach high school and of course we have the EOCT and the GHSGT. This semester (and for every one from here on out) I print the end of semester attendence from the computer. I do this to show the administrators when they knock on my door and demand to know why students fail these test. All you have to do is see that there are ‘students’ with 30, 40, and 60 absences in one semester. There are ‘students’ with 30, 40, and 60 tardies in one semester. You can ask a teacher to work magic, but if that student isn’t in the classroom even magic won’t help!

By SET

June 6, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this

I’d like to know as much as possible about the kids who don’t pass - individual stories as well as any group statistics.

Maybe with more information I can firm up my feeling about how these cases can be reduced.

Without throwing a lot more money at them.

By Frustrated

June 6, 2006 07:43 PM | Link to this

My son passed to the 7th grade, however it is because of my insistence and presence. I have encountered some of the laziest teachers since moving to GA from CT. I was actually told that teachers don’t have time to send notes home to parents when students aren’t performing as they should. My son didn’t like the grades he was getting and decided to get tutoring - he’s 11. This is the power of parenting and praying.

By Jeff

June 6, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this

Frustrated:

From a teacher’s perspective:

You have one son (from your post). I have roughly 130 sons and daughters.

I got no problem at all responding to you within 48 hrs or so (excluding weekends and holidays) if you contact me. I DO NOT have the time to contact you every time little Johnny’s grades start to slip. Most teachers return all work, so you should INSIST that little Johnny give it to you when he gets it back. Keep up with it. You’ll have a better idea of how he’s doing than I do. When someone asks me how a certain kid is doing, I can generally - unless for some reason I was just looking at that kid recently in my computer - give a good idea of the letter grade, but that and an overall impression are the best I can do on a moment’s notice. (Obviously, if you email me I look at it and can tell you exactly, but I’m talking about a situation where maybe you actually catch me during my planning or before/ after school roaming the halls.)

By a teacher

June 7, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this

I can not tell you how hard it was to tell some of these students that they failed either the math or the reading part of the test by 1, 2, or 3 points. Many of these kids came to tutoring before and after school to get ready for these tests. Let us all remember that many of these kids put in the extra work, and their teachers actually do care enough to provide that extra help before and after school. There is something wrong with the system when one test decides everything. I have always said why we can not go to a portfolio system so that we can have documentation of how far students come from point A to point B during the year. It would require more effort, but wouldn’t it be a more fair evaluation of the student?

By Ernest

June 7, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

I agree with SET that it would be good to put a ‘face’ with those who do not pass. Unfortunately, I believe you may only get students that are sincerely trying or are not good ‘test takers’ rather than those described by Middle School Teacher (MST).

If it does not increase the ‘scope’ of your article too much, I’d also like to hear the perspective of a teacher like MST along with that of a parent. I recall also seeing a post by an ES AP that might be worthy.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

June 7, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

I believe that most of these kids take testing very seriously. I think most probably became frustrated and decided to mark answers. Many were not adequately prepared, because they came across material they had not covered. I know this to be the case, because the kids were talking about it on their end of year field trip. I also discussed each test with my daughter everyday. She gave specific examples of things not covered on the science and social studies. She explained to me how she narrowed it down to the best possible answer. I received word on the last day of school that she exceeded on all parts of the CRCT. There was never a question about her NOT passing.

Which is why I was most interested in hearing about things covered on the test, that had not been covered in class. I know you can’t cover everything. However, I saw what it did to my child, to talk about answering questions she had never discussed. If coming across material you are not familiar with, throws off an “A” student. What do we expect would happen to kids who are B or C students? I would say that two unfamiliar questions would throw off a mediocre student for the entire duration of the test.

I would love to know how many failing students actually finished the test. I would also like to know, how many they got incorrectly in a row. Shall I say, they gave up and did not use any process of elimination techniques?

Do they still mark on a student’s report card “Gives Up Too Easily”?

Jeff, most teachers do not return MOST or ALL work done in class or at home. I check my daughter’s folder, every Friday and I see 4 or 5 worksheets. Then I asked my daughter, what else did you do all week? What did you get on homework? Then I get “Oh”, my teacher only checks to see if I did it, she did not check it. I don’t expect a grade for everything to go into the grade book, but I do expect teachers to check the answers.

You know what is in that Friday folder – mostly junk associated with the community or something from our PTA. Rarely if ever, did I find test, worksheets, etc…..The best thing about my daughters teacher is that she actually used an online grading program, where she would email my daughters grades. There were more grades in that email, than I ever saw in my daughter’s folder.

Are there any 6th grade teachers on this blog? I have concerns about the 6th and 7th grade math curriculum in Gwinnett. I believe that it puts students like my daughter on HOLD, as far as math, until they reach 8th grade.

By ellen

June 7, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

Also, I would love to know what percentage of New Orleans evacuees failed. I know at our school, all three that were in the impacted grade levels did. Other states have been able to quickly release this data — I hope Georgia can follow suit.

By Lisa U.

June 7, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

I teach 4th grade in a rural school system. Most of my students passed the CRCT, but some failed for various reasons. One student finished the reading section in less than three minutes, then told me after the test that he didn’t read any of the passages. I told him I doubt he had time to read the question either. He thinks school and testing are boring. The boy is smart, but despite lots of home and school intervention, he is totally unmotivated. He failed all parts of the CRCT. Two other students squeaked by on the third grade CRCT, and made it to 4th grade. Both girls had loads of help at home, participated in afterschool programs and summer reading programs at the public library. Unfortunately, the girls remain a year or so below grade level academically, and could not pass the revised CRCT this year because they had to get more answers correct. They are both enrolled in summer school. Learning comes hard for these girls, though one of them did pass the math portion. The final child who failed the reading portion (which is taken on the first day of the testing cycle) was so sick with anxiety he was removed from the room three times to throw up. Perhaps some anxiety counseling would help him. He’s intelligent, and should have been able to pass, but failed all parts of the test. The law doesn’t mandate that 4th graders who fail the CRCT be retained. Three of the four above students passed my class, two with modifications, and will attend summer school. Mr. Unmotivated failed my class, in addition to the CRCT, and will not attend summer school, nor go to the 5th grade. By the way, he is a middle class white boy.

By teach overseas

June 7, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

The name of the law is No Child Left BEHIND- not no child get ahead. The further your children get ahead- the further behind other get.

By Jeff

June 7, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

Amazed,

First, about 6th grade teachers: I am becoming one. I spent this past semester at HS, but as of July 18 I will be a 6th grade math teacher in South GA. I have the new standards down stairs (I’m trying to work on my planning already), so if you have questions just let me know. I’ll look through it and TRY to help ya. Feel free to use my ajc_jeff@yahoo.com address if ya want.

As for returning work/ grading: I can honestly say that other than papers I got with no names and finals, if my students this past semester gave it to me and I saw it, I gave it back to them. Grading wise: Yes, I do a lot of completetion grades. Blatant grade inflation, I know. But I tried going in and actually grading every single piece of paper that came across my desk for about a month, and let me tell you: you wind up spending about 20 hrs a week doing NOTHING but grading, if not more than that! So I went back to my completetion grades with actual numeric grades on quizzes/ tests only. Next year I’ve got more experimentation to do ebcause my classroom will have more toys that I didn’t have and which could be useful in this siutation.

Grading programs: Both the school I was at and the school I am going to use a program called IGPro. It has the capabilities so email everything about your child in my gradebook to you. I didn’t do it at my last school, and honestly I’m not sure about the email capabilities of parents where I am going, but I may very well try to do it. Another of its capabilities though, and one I try to use at least once a month, is that I can print student progress reports. (May actually go to the midway point between any official school wide grade reporting being sent home, I’ll have to play around with that.) Anyways, that progress report will go in detail and show you exactly how I labeled everything, what your student earned, how many points I graded it out of, your child’s raw score, their percent score, letter grade, and even how much of their final grade any given item is worth! (Pretty dang powerful. I don’t think I even know the full scope of the program yet, and I’ve seen it work wonders already!!)

By Patti Ghezzi

June 7, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Ernest, you are so right that most of the kids whose parents are contacting me tried their hardest to pass and desperately want to get promoted. Parents in most cases hired tutors. One child was flagged for reading, but then failed math. Another is in eighth-grade special education, reading on fourth grade level.

For students who are just unmotivated, I can see how the threat of being held back would be a real motivator. Wouldn’t it?

By Lisa U.

June 7, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

I warned my 4th graders that they may see items on the Social Studies CRCT that we didn’t cover in class. If I’d had another year, I may have gotten to everything! There are not enough hours in the day. Writer’s Workshop is one hour, followed by an hour of Reader’s Workshop, 45 minutes of Language Arts, 50 minutes for either P.E., music, art, computer lab, 30 minutes for lunch, an hour for math, with 50 minutes remaining for EITHER Social Studies or Science. I switch back and forth. We must also fit in bathroom breaks, trips to the media center, character education, daily vocabulary, and math skill drills. I love Science and Social Studies, but it is difficult to fully cover concepts so children will remember the information on a test. We read lots of non-fiction during reading to pick up the slack, but it is still not enough.

By Jeff

June 7, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

Lisa,

Maybe you ECE types can explain this to me:

Back in the day (I started K in the 88-89 school year, left 5 at the end of 93-94), from what I remember we basically had about 50 min for each of the core classes (ELA- which included reading, writing, and spelling- SS, Science, and Math). I distinctly remember learning multiplication essentials starting in 2nd and the basic concepts of division started no later than 4th - I think they started in 3rd. Don’t remmeber much about the science stuff, but I distinctly remember getting heavy doses of geography at that level. (Had a very embarassing moment with Niger in 2nd grade, another where I couldn’t find Arkansas on the map even though I was pointing right at it but it was being pronounced “Arkansaw” and I was reading “Ar-Kansas”.)

I’ll have to go check out the GPS for ECE levels…

By Robert

June 7, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this

Lisa U. You hit the nail on the head! Elementary school does not give enough attention to science and social studies. I think that your time was set when these subjects “didn’t matter” in the CRCT. Now that the scores of these subjects are beginning to count, you may want to change the time spent.

It seems to me that 50 minutes for PE, music, art, and computer lab should be dramatically reduced. How did English (writers workshop and readers workshop) get 1 hour and 45 minutes? That seems a bit lop sided compared to the other “core” subjects. I would also reduce Langage Arts to 30 minutes.

By SNY

June 7, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

Well, if my daughter can fail this test, anybody can. My daughter came into the public school system from private school and failed the 3rd grade reading test by 1 point or question. This is a child who put in as much time and effort as anyone. Yes we had problems adjusting to public school at first and my husband and I had already decided to put her back in private school but I am floored!! Now my child is walking around crying thinking that she stupid. Does President Bush have an answer for how I am suppose to handle this problem? Does he even care? The answer to both questions is h*ll no!!

My child is an “A”, “B” student, but she does have some focusing issues. I know that, we work on that, now what am I suppose to tell her. I wish that I had never tried to be open to public school. At least not during her 3rd grade year. I was open to the idea of public school, now I am completely closed to the idea. I don’t care how expensive private school get, I will work 4 jobs if I have to. If it keeps her out of Pres. Bush’s little hobby, then I’ll do it!!!

By Leia

June 7, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

I fear that this article will be tragically skewed because it will not give the entire picture of the students who failed the exam. Those parents who are unsupportive, didn’t give their children breakfast in the morning, didn’t require them to do homework, etc. - are NOT going to lend their stories for this story! And, more often than not - those are the students who failed miserably - not by 5 or 6 points.

By Ernest

June 7, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

Patti, given the responses you have received, perhaps the article should be done from that perspective, those who tried along with the efforts they made but didn’t pass. Based on several of the comments posted, these students unfortunately seem like the minority :(. Nonetheless, I look forward to your article.

FWIW, I also spoke with someone in our central office and they indicated more detail information on CRCT scores will be provided later this summer. It seems the only detail data provided thus far was for those that failed so they could enroll into summer school.

By Lisa U.

June 7, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

Robert, Many schools systems incorporated Writer’s Workshop because high schools, colleges and the business world lament the lack of writing skills in today’s young people. I must admit, I have seen drastic improvement in my students’ abilities to express themselve in writing. About half the writing time during the year is spent on informational writing, reports, research papers, etc. The other half is spent on narratives, persuasive writing, a little poetry, letters, etc. I try very hard to incorporate all the Science and Social Studies standards in reading and writing projects, instead of simply relying on textbooks. However, there are simply too many Social Studies standards, which is supposed to change over the next couple of years with GPS implementation. The Language Arts block is normally about 30 minutes, but I said 45 because I always have a core group who didn’t “get it” that I work with after lunch while other students go to the media center and bathroom, work on projects, etc. As you say, its impossible to have a 2 1/2 literacy block without cutting something else. The guidlines are set by the Reading First Program, what used to be America’s Choice, and now the Georgia Performance Standards. Student scores on the Georgia Writing Assement in grades 5 and 8 have improved drastically. However, that test doesn’t count towards schools making AYP, and those skills don’t seem to transfer to the CRCT. I totally understand the frustration of Middle School and High School teachers!

By Lisa U.

June 7, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

Robert, Many schools systems incorporated Writer’s Workshop because high schools, colleges and the business world lament the lack of writing skills in today’s young people. I must admit, I have seen drastic improvement in my students’ abilities to express themselve in writing. About half the writing time during the year is spent on informational writing, reports, research papers, etc. The other half is spent on narratives, persuasive writing, a little poetry, letters, etc. I try very hard to incorporate all the Science and Social Studies standards in reading and writing projects, instead of simply relying on textbooks. However, there are simply too many Social Studies standards, which is supposed to change over the next couple of years with GPS implementation. The Language Arts block is normally about 30 minutes, but I said 45 because I always have a core group who didn’t “get it” that I work with after lunch while other students go to the media center and bathroom, work on projects, etc. As you say, its impossible to have a 2 1/2 literacy block without cutting something else. The guidlines are set by the Reading First Program, what used to be America’s Choice, and now the Georgia Performance Standards. Student scores on the Georgia Writing Assement in grades 5 and 8 have improved drastically. However, that test doesn’t count towards schools making AYP, and those skills don’t seem to transfer to the CRCT. I totally understand the frustration of Middle School and High School teachers!

By JW

June 7, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

The current focus at the elementary level is reading, math, and written expression. However, science and social studies ARE being taught. Look at the scores for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th grades in science and social studies. 3rd grade: science = 85% / social = 89%; 4th grade: science = 88% / social = 89%; 5th grade: science = 89% / social = 91%. These scores do not indicate a lack of attention at the elementary school level. If teachers were giving very little attention to these subjects the scores would not be this high.

The question about why the success rate is not carrying over to middle school and high school is an interesting one. I don’t think you can find fault with the elementary school teachers as they are obviously teaching to the standards that are in place (as indicated by the scores above). Maybe the problem is not with the elementary schools’ focus, but with the standards themselves. There must be some disconnect there.

By JW

June 7, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this

Robert,

Dramatically reducing time for PE, music, art, etc. would be dramatically reducing (if not eliminating) teacher planning time at the elementary school level. I don’t think you will find many elementary school teachers in support of that proposal.
Also, many elementary school teachers do not decide the amount of time spent on various subjects. Many schools have master schedules with math and language arts times set. Teachers fill in the leftover times with the other subjects (ss & science).

By Jeff

June 7, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

OK, maybe this is just me, but here goes:

At HS on a traditional schedule you have 6 50 min periods. That counts as 1 for each of the four core disciplines and 2 for any combination of “electives”. AT HS PE, art, music, computers, etc all count as electives (and indeed, they were treated as such when I was in ELEM as a student).

Why can’t the elementary level still do that? I remember that art, music, and pe were on a rotating basis at my school. Something like either a daily or weekly - can’t remember which - rotation where you went to art, pe, then music or some permutation thereof depending on your teacher. Seemed to work back in the day. I’m pretty well adjusted…

By Patti Ghezzi

June 7, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

Thanks everyone for the great food for thought. I will reflect in the story that many students who do not pass did not try. I wish I could find a teacher to speak on the record about that. I’ll work on it.

There are still a lot of issues coming to light in talking to the parents who have responded. Parents say they do not know any details about their kids’ performance, so they feel unable to help them as much as they would like. Also, parents of special education students are having a hard time getting a straight answer about their chances for a waiver if/when their child fails the retest.

Please keep the comments coming, and those of you who are in a position to speak on the record please do so. I’m at pghezzi@ajc.com

Patti

By JW

June 7, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Your description of the electives rotation in elementary school is indeed how many schools are set up. Students may have PE on Monday, music on Tuesday, etc. This 45 min. block is the classroom teachers’ planning period. As far as the six blocks of 50 minutes - unfortunately, that is not how an elementary school schedule works. There are so many other factors to consider - when resource students are pulled out of class, when ESOL students leave the class, when EIP students are pulled for additional instruction, when gifted students are out of the classroom. Amazingly, none of this can occur during electives at the elementary level. Elementary level teachers must keep all these schedules in mind because they must make sure that students are not missing any new instruction while pulled from class. As an example, you cannot teach science while your EIP student(s) are out receiving additional support in reading. You really have to be flexible when it comes to schedules at the elementary school level or it will drive you crazy.

By Ernest

June 7, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately if teachers speak out, they may be subject to privacy act violation issues, especially if they refer to Johnny that missed 30 days of school without having Johnny’s permission (and/or his parents) to do so. They would have to speak in generalities (some students miss many days) and the reader would have to determine whether to believe it.

I would still submit, MSTs comments above on what s/he does to prepare students for the CRCT is worthy of inclusion in the article. IMO, this is typical of what most teachers do.

By Jeff

June 7, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this

Ernest,

Actually I can describe the situation in as much detail as I want. The only thing I can’t give out would be information that would specifically point out this student. In other words, I can say “I had a student suspended from school for 25 days this semester wonder why he was failing my class.” I could NOT say (and this hasn’t happened, so I’m safe) “Joe Nichols was suspended from my 5th period class at Centerview High in Podunk, AL because he was caught in the bleachers with one of the teachers smoking cigars.”

Other teachers, if I’m incorrect in this, please correct!

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

June 7, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

Why should anyone want to use a specific name when talking about performance in school? Would you want your doctor telling people you had AIDS?

You can still get your point across about the problems in school, without saying Samantha Smith was suspended for kissing Sam Jordan at school.

Come on people, don’t be ridiculous.

By Ernest

June 7, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

Jeff and Amazed, point taken! But can Jeff Jones (making up your last name), the 9th grade teacher from Anywhere HS say the 25% of his students missed 10 or more days during the school year? Even though names of the students are not mentioned, would having Jeff’s name along with his school compromise his situation?

By ugh

June 7, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

Leia, Breakfast in the morning? Gimme a break! As the parent of a 12 year old, if he doesn’t get his hiney out of bed on time, he doesn’t get breakfast. Consequences.

As for the topic, I find the tests to be stressful. Even for the TAG kids, there’s stress along the lines of “what if I really mess up” although with any effort they won’t fail it. Unless they sleep through the test, I just don’t imagine it. Yet, every year, the stress returns to our household and I firmly believe that 90% of the stress isn’t internal, it’s from the teacher and school environment around test time. Let’s not all hyperfocus on the test as if our lives depended on it, for just one year?

The special ed kids that hurt repeatedly by this is so whacko. I keep waiting for some parents to sue the state over emotional damage incurred as a result of these tests. Holding kids back should be used in very very rare circumstances, it shouldn’t be the norm. Isn’t that part of the point of having all the reading and math and language specialists? Balance out the kid’s learning (using the intervention teams) instead of simply ‘holding them back’.

I know so many parents who have special kids and every year, it’s the same drama. Some of these parents have adopted their children and they come from bad backgrounds, the kids make so much progress.. but it’s not enough (according to GA).

Frustrated, You’re right on about the laziness. We came from another state also and GA was a very rude awakening. But, after 4 different elementary schools we found a good school with good teachers. Much happier times. So I’d say it isn’t GA specifically, but some schools and possibly some districts seem to have just given up.

SNY, Good for you, for reviewing your options again. I hope you find a great place for your daugther, away from all the testing nonsense.

By Leia

June 7, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this

ugh - Thank you for emphasizing my point! If your child comes to school hungry and it happens to be an exam day - he will suffer the consequences - failing the test!

By Patti Ghezzi

June 7, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

Getting teacher comments is difficult even if we just want their opinions or a general description of their situation in a way that would not identify students. (That’s all we ever want for most news stories.) Some school districts have language in the teacher’s contract that all media questions should be referred to the principal, and in other cases, the teacher is worried that his or her comments could reflect poorly on the school and bring about difficulties from the administration.

At times, I talk to teachers in the presence of, or with the blessing of, the principal. If they are speaking about a program at the school that they support or some such topic, it generally isn’t a problem.

That said, some teachers do speak freely with the media and have for years without consequences. (Or they would just as soon speak to the media and suffer the consequences.) Needless to say, I heart those teachers.

By Jeff

June 7, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this

Patti,

I’ll have to look into it down South. I’m sure they’d appreciate the coverage in metro ATL and it could provide a first person story for OUTSIDE ATL..

By jim d

June 8, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

A good friend of mine (and yes I do have a few) recently commented on Gov. Perdue’s comment that “Georgia students must be second-to-none in competition with students across the world,” Governor Perdue said. “To do that, we must have a realistic and challenging measuring stick.

Below are my friends comments and I whole heardedly agree.

No, Governor. The measuring stick must be accurate and nothing more. It’s the curriculum that should be realistic and challenging. Kids learn nothing from taking tests - other than we don’t know how to run an education system.

The notion that “raising the bar” means increasing cut scores, is the real problem. I don’t know how many times you have to see higher cut scores that result in nothing more than a higher failure rate for this to sink in, but evidently it must take a while. This has been happening in Texas for over a decade, yet Georgia used Texas as the model for the last round of education reform.

It not at all surprising that we got the same results.

Ironically, McGraw/Hill has one of the best explanations I’ve ever seen concerning the proper implementation of testing. There’s a limit to how much fault lies with a test author, when lawmakers refuse to follow their advice.

By Jeff

June 8, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

Jim,

Glad to know you do have a few friends! :)

By jim d

June 8, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

Thanks Jeff :-)

By SNY

June 8, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

jim d,

I agree 100%.

Ugh,

Thank you. I am just going to put my daughter back into the same private school that she was attending before. The only problem is that now I have to pay for her to go to school twice. I have to pay the school and I have to pay Gwinnett County school taxes. It is terrible that I have to go broke to get my child a good education.

One thing I have learned over the past year is that there is a difference in the way children behave when they are around a non-diverse group of people. My child was one of two black people in her class (the other one was mixed) and she acted like a totally different person in that class than she did in her all black private school. I am terribly upset that is the case but I have to be completely honest. She says she didn’t feel comfortable to be herself because no one understood her in the class. She even said the teacher didn’t understand her. If the teacher didn’t understand her and she couldn’t identify with the teacher, no wonder we had so many problems this past year.

I just know that I have to do what works for my child. GCPS isn’t what works. The best part of private school is that they choose which tests to give the students, not the state. They also don’t make a big deal out of the tests. They teach the material, the kids learn the material, the take the test, they move on. No problems. They don’t teach kids how to narrow down the answers, they teach the actually information.

Good luck to everyone who has to continue to deal with these stupid rules.

By jim d

June 8, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

Paying the price is what happens when we elect to exercise choice in education. I myself went that route with my child for a few years. I actually believe it helped and was well worth the cost.

My problem with the private school was that it failed to expose him to the broader socio-economic groups of people that he must learn to deal with for the rest of his life. That too is an intergal part of education. One that can be best learned in the trenches of public education.

Best of luck to you as well.

By Leia

June 8, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

SNY - what exactly do you mean by “the teacher didn’t understand her”? Does she speak another language?

I would be more concerned that your child apparently doesn’t have the social skills to interact with people who don’t look just like her. What is going to happen to her when she goes off to college? If she doesn’t go to a predominately Black college - will she freak out on a higher level? What about the “real world”? Do you plan on segregating her for the rest of her life?

And, as I’ve said before - some of my colleagues have moved to work in a private school. If the only thing that has changed is the environment - it can’t be the teachers who are at fault! It has to be the parent involvement!

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

June 8, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

We been down that road already. It’s hard being a child of any color, when you are in the minority. I speak from experience, in a school environment and in my career.

SNY - I don’t think you should have taken your daughter out of the school. Sending your daughter to an all black school is not going to help address the future. The one thing I have been blessed with and I think it is due to my majority white schooling, is the ability to deal with situations where I am in the minority. Being in minority in school, gave me the insight that has driven my career to this day. That school also provided things that I would never have seen at my 99% black school, across town.

I represent the differences of opinion, in most of my day to day business meetings.

If your daughter did not pass, the CRCT, it’s not the end of the world. But, I think it points out, that she’s not at her full potential. She’s still young and if I were you, I would spend every Saturday and Sunday helping her to reach the potential to pass the CRCT next school year - without fear of failure.

You are on this blog, so I know that your childs education is important to you. It’s important to me as well.

By Kristen Waddell

June 8, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

I’m currently teaching summer school, so I have quite a large pool or candidates for your story: 3rd graders who did not pass the reading section of the CRCT. We are attempting to work miracles in 13 days of “Summer Learning Camp” (let’s just call it what it really is) before we readminister the test at the end of June. I could give you a couple of “anonymous” profiles to use as case studies, from the non-English speaker who can’t read in ANY language, to the little girl who told me today that she failed because of a spider bite that she received right before the test! We are a nation of blamers and exscuse makers.

By RA

June 8, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

SNY: I don’t know why noone has said this to you yet; but I think it needs to be said, especially since you seem genuinely bewildered by your child’s failure. Have you considered the possibility that your daughter was doing so well in the private school because it was not a very challenging school? And that she floundered in the public school because she was not prepared to do the level of work the other public school children were doing?

I know we are taught to believe that private is always better, but I have found that not to always be true.

You say that the private school didn’t worry about tests, well there is your clue. For all its faults, standardized testing does provide a measure (albeit flawed) of school and student performance that is less subjective than grades. I would be very suspicious of a private school that did not flaunt it expensive test results with great pride.

I once sent my children to a very sweet, nurturing, small, private school that also did not empahsize testing. (The children took the ITBS but the scores for the school were never released. Each parent received a copy of their child’s scores only.) One year a group of parents asked to see the schools scores and after much delay and foot dragging, when the scores were finally released, all of us were shocked. Our wonderful nurturing school was failing academically. We were paying for those smiles, hugs, and tidy classrooms, but not much else.

So think about it—if your daughter is struggling enough to fail the CRCT in the 3d grade, (and you said she had adjustment problems at the public school) the reason may be that, so far, that private school was not doing the great job you thought they were and she was simply over her head academically at the public school.

Get a tutor. Hire a teacher you trust to evaluate her independently over the summer. But don’t just run back to the private school until you are sure they were not the problem to begin with.

Good luck to you! Your daughter is fortunate to have a parent who cares as much as you do.

By SNY

June 9, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this

Everyone,

Thank you for your concern about my baby. I read all of your responses and I have already taken some measures to help her pass the CRCT at the end of June. But, I am not sending her to summer school. Since it is my choice, I choose to have her at home playing and enjoying her summer. I also don’t have a way to get her back and forth to school. I understand that it is important for her to pass the test, but it is also important for her to eat. If I don’t go to work, she doesn’t eat. Some things trump summer school.

The private school that my child is returning to does take standardized tests. (I think some of you thought that they didn’t). They also release the scores to all of the parents. Every other year, my daughter has been either average or above average. She has always performed well. I just really think that she did not like the school. Period. I don’t think that there is anything wrong with a child expressing that. There are alot of things in public school that she couldn’t do that she could do in private school. For example, my child has been saying her grace since she could talk. In private school, they said their grace out loud together. Of course, in public school they can’t. Instead of just reminding her (on the 1st day of school) that she couldn’t do that, they threatened to expel her from school. That was ridiculous.

Another thing, my baby is still only 8 years old. She won’t be 9 until Oct. so she is very young. Her teacher didn’t have the patience she needed to have with her. My daughter behaved like a 2nd grader in her class. When you are in a private school setting, the teachers have more time to devote to a child who may need extra help or tutoring in a subject. I realize that eventually she is going to grow up and have to do things on her own but if she gets a good education in the early years and she understands all of the material now, it will be easier for her later.

There a just some things that didn’t then and still don’t make sense now. I don’t understand how a kid can subtract in private school and not be able to subtract in public school. Math is math no matter what school you go to. I just think that she didn’t like it and her work reflected that. I don’t mind putting her back in private school. I actually prefer it. My child has a love of God that I know that my husband and I didn’t give her alone. Her school also helped that love blossom and grow. It is more than math, science, english, reading, and P.E., it is the overall person. My child laughed more, played with her friends more, had more friends at this school. This is just a better setting for her.

GCPS is also just too d*mnmed arrogant and defensive for me. When I would go in there I heard that my child could be borderline ADHD. No she isn’t, just tell her to sit down and mean it. My child needs a strict teacher. Not someone who is afraid of lawsuits. I am not going to sue someone if they yell at my baby and tell her to sit down. In my opinion, she should have been sitting down to begin with. If she’s not then that’s a problem in itself. I realize that not all parent feel that way. But in her private school, they are firm, loving, and strict. She has a healthy amount of respect AND fear of the teachers, admins and even the lunch monitors.

For those who think I wasn’t involved, trust me I am involved. I go to PTA meetings, I attend the Saturday extras. I call the school, I go see the teacher. She just never had any answers. She just kept harping on how young my daughter was. Yes, she is young but she has been younger than everyone in her class since she started at 3 years old. She can’t help that and I am not going to penalize her for it.

My husband and I have made up our minds, we are sending her back but we are making her retake the CRCT. She doesn’t need it for private school but I want her to know that she can do it.

Sorry so long.

By SET

June 9, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

I think there are some instances when black children at any level including college are better going to segregated schools.

I think there are also instances when a black child needs to be surrounded with another ethnic and forced to compete in what some may say is a hostile environment.

The differences are the competitiveness of the kid in question and what the plan (or the reach plan) is for that child’s career. As long as the parent/family is operating with information and research and not blind faith they should be able to make a rational decision for the particular kid.

Within the same family there will be a child that would only make it at at a supportive segregated school and a different sibling that needs to be at Stanford or whatever. Some families have known this for generations.

What really fries me is when I’ve interviewed kids for a scholarship at a largely black urban school and deal with something like this:

I had a teenaged black girl seriously talking about attending University of California who was at the end of the 11th grade and was reading at 4th or 5th grade level on her standardized tests with similar math scores.

No one, her parent(s), school counselors, her friends - has told her what would happen if she landed in such an environment with function levels like this. She had no clue of the median or average scores of the entering classes at the UC schools. She had done no research, school visits or talked to anyone about life at Univ of Cal. This encounter was over 10 years ago, affirmative action was still officially practiced. This student, if admitted, would be adrift and would flunk out (expelled by the computer) in a quarter or two.

My fellow panel members were shocked that I told her her plan was not only unrealistic but destructive - that she needed to enroll in summer school for remedial classes and try very hard to bring up her reading level (and it would help to read a book occasionally). And to forget UC and either consider a HBC for the higher level of support she would get or start at a Jr. College and transfer if she could later. I told her I went to UC - and when I was there the black drop rate was 8 out of 10. And it wasn’t just that that the students dropped out - they had emotional damage by the time they left.

My white co-panelists were annoyed and felt I shouldn’t do anything to “discourage” her.

Of course she had “presentable grades”. She had a sweet disposition and tried to please. She’s a classic example of why we now have the graduation exit exam. Today she would probably not be able to get a high school diploma in a California Public High School (because the exit exam is 8th grade reading level).

No one (else) had told her she had a serious problem and no one had enrolled her in any summer school classes to date in her high school career. She thought she was doing well in high school because of her grades.

By Me

June 9, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

SNY - Your baby is a grade ahead of where she is socially developed. I have a child who turns 9 in early November and he is a rising 3rd grader. He’s a smart kid and the though I know academically he is a head of his peers, he is socially right where he needs to be. (He had a perfect CRCT score last year and this year he missed 3 on the entire test.)

The cut off date for entering school, I believe, is August 1st.

By Leia

June 9, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

Some children start at a private school and end up in public schools, and since the age restrictions are different - sometimes they never catch up socially. I can always tell who started out in a private school at a younger age. They usually still act like a middle-schooler in the 10th grade and most of the class avoids him like the plague!

By Me

June 9, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Leia.

A friend of my son’s mom was telling me how I was doing my son an injustice by not trying to I get the administration to allow him to skip a grade. We feel we made the correct choice for our child.

By Leia

June 9, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

Me - you probably did the right thing. Boys are already “sillier” than girls, so, your son is right where he needs to be.

If he is academically brighter than his classmates, have him tested for the gifted program in your county. That way - he’s still in the “correct” grade, but, he can be challenged in his coursework as well.

Parents usually know what is best for their children. Trust your instincts!

By Me

June 9, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this

Leia - Silly is right on target! He was tested in Kindergarten and has been in the gifted program since then. He, also, has a wonderfully kind and understanding teacher. She has a class full of boys and girls just like my son. The group thrives together.

Have a great weekend and thank you for all of your hard work! (And thank you to all the hard working and dedicated teachers out there!!)

By frustrated middle school teacher

June 12, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

I believe we have a serious problem on our hands. There were plenty of sad faces and tears at our school also. Some of the students that passed the tests did not deserve to pass to the next grade. For example, there was a student that hardly attended school (absent for more than 80 days second semester) and was allowed to come to school just on testing days and we never saw the child again. The student was an intelligent student and knew that they could “ace” the test. The parent of this child blamed the county and school for her emotional problems and did not make the student attend school. Nothing has been about the student or the parent yet, even with social workers involved. They will be going on to the next grade with F’s in every subject. There are students that skipped school and failed two or more courses and somehow they passed the CRCT, with no problem. I believe we are also setting the other students up for failure in the 6th and 7th grades and leading them to believe that they can coast through two years before they get serious about their studies. Some students were able to continue on to the next grade for two years straight because the county wasn’t looking at their scores to promote them. In a lot of classes the CRCT was seen as the only thing the students thought they had to focus on. I cannot tell you how many times a student would say, “Why are we still working, this stuff doesn’t count anyway. We already took the CRCT.” It is very difficult after that to make the students realize that learning still is going on. There has to be another way to make the CRCT and the four core classes equally important when considering passing students on to the next grade. The students are going to be in for a rude awakening when they enter high school.

By Ernest

June 12, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

FMST, I read your post and was confused by this statement: Some of the students that passed the tests did not deserve to pass to the next grade. In the example you gave, I interpret that as the test was so easy that one did not have to attend school to pass it. That is scary that they did pass. What do it say about those that attended everyday and did not pass?

By North Georgia Middle School Teacher

June 15, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this

I am a teacher and proud of it. I love my job and I hate to see all the “teacher bashing” that some of this high stakes testing is bringing around. I don’t think that there is one single person or thing that we can point the finger at and blame when the results aren’t what we want them to be. There are so many factors that go into testing itself. While I agree that too much emphasis has been placed on testing, both in Georgia and nationwide, the test is for the most part showing us the failing students that it should. However, most of the students who fail are the ones that we know are going to fail because of the factors mentioned earlier: excessive absenteeism, unmotivation, lack of support at home, etc. Now the other part of students who fail may have test anxiety or language problems. I think that testing is a good indicator, but I don’t think it should be the only indicator of a student’s knowledge. As for the students who fail that we know are going to fail, we need some help from higher up on getting these kids in school and getting their parents involved. Teachers can work wonders IN the classroom, but the student has to show up mentally and physically. In my county, we have a huge transient population, making teacher home visits unlikely. Some of our families switch addresses every month when the rent is due. These families are way too poor to hire tutors like some of the families that have been mentioned on this blog. We do offer summer school, but the ones who do show up are usually no more interested in passing it the second time than they were the first and are only there to eat and socialize. I think we need a major social change in parts of the rural South that places a larger emphasis on getting a high school education. The HOPE scholarship did wonders for college, but we need something more to appeal to the younger students. I think most students quit high school because they are so vastly behind by the time that they get there that they can never catch up. I have seen 8th graders who can barely read and write. We also need a system to either punish or encourage parents who aren’t sending their kids to school. We say that we will take them to court, but the same kids can miss 40 days every school year and we start the process anew with the parents annually; a process that ultimately goes nowhere. We need to try new thing, even if they sound radical, with the middle school students. Most students perform well until 4th and 5th grade, then it drops rapidly. I have heard of some schools separating by gender and getting good results because boys and girls both learn differently at that age, and it eliminates the hormones and competition mentioned in an earlier post. At any rate, we have to try new things with our educational and social structures until we see ALL our students succeeding.