Get Schooled

By lynn d

June 5, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

Dekalb was prepared — they cancelled all summer school except for kids who failed the CRCT in grades 3, 5 and 8 (plus they are still having the Federally funded summer school for ESOL students). DeKalb was expecting 1000s of 8th graders to fail.

By Mike

June 5, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

All the kids failing nothing is improving why aren’t teachers losing thier jobs?

By C.R.H.

June 5, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

Yeah, why aren’t we firing all the teachers? That will show them to LET all these kids fail! I’m sure all of these teachers, knowing that these scores were coming, have done absolutly nothing to help these kids. They just sit in their comfy little chairs from 8am to 3pm and get summers off while taking a BIG FAT paycheck home for destroying these children who come to school prepared, awake and ready to learn! I say fire all of ‘em and lets replace them with all those people at the Ford plant who will be losing their jobs. Hey, maybe we can cut the pay even more & see if all the illegal immigrants will do it!

By BlindHomer

June 5, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

Just more indications that re-working the entire middle school model might be necessary, the sixth and eighth grade failure rates were pretty high. But why would the fail rates be higher for 6th grade than 8th grade, if middle school is the problem? The legislature should amend the law so those sixth grade failures have to go to summer school too.

By Concerned

June 5, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

30,000 children in Georgia fail the CRCT. The system is failing and is an embarrassment. But it doesn’t seem education is high on the list of priorities at the moment. See, we’re all for blowing $40,000 or more a day of taxpayers money on special sessions to help guarantee that our gay taxpayers in the state don’t have the same rights as their straight neighbors. Gas prices out of control, a war going on, failing education systems, people on the street, and we’re worried about making sure that 2 people of the same can’t make legal arrangements to protect their shared interests. Nice, huh?

By Angry Parent

June 5, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

Georgia needs year-round schools with breaks at intervals.

This is a generational problem. If the parents don’t care about education and self-improvement, why should their offspring?

My employer won’t hire any one that attended a metro-area public school system.

By Robert

June 5, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

C.R.H. - LOL! That was rich!!

Anyone and everyone in education has been well aware that the “weak link” has been the middle school grades, especially in science. Why you make ask?

It does start in elementary. Most elementary teachers will readily admit that they feel uncomfortable with science and do not like teaching it. Therefore, the most “science” that these kids get is a trip outside to point out what is a flower, what is a birde, etc. Simply not good preparation for any science test!

The kids get to middle school. Many (not all) middle school teachers will tell you that they spend a lot of their time teaching kids things that, back in my day, the parents taught - manners, social graces, money concepts, etc. Which doesn’t leave a whole lot of time for delving into the core sciences.

Then these kids get to high school. Suddenly, the students are expected to learn about cellular respiration, ionic bonding, and more advanced science without ever getting the foundation needed. The kids score poorly on the EOCT and then fail the science part of the GHSGT.

I am glad that the CRCT scores and beginning to include science as well as the other subjects. These scores are showing only the tip of the ice burg of the problem.

Whose fault is it? One could argue that it is the teacher’s fault. The teacher should teach the curriculum regardless of anything else, perod. one could argue that it is the parent’s fault. If the parent would teach their children respect, manners, etc., then teachers won’t have to do it. One could argue that it is the “systems” fault. Why did they wait until now to start analyzing middle and elementary scores?

I am not one that likes to point fingers of blame. I feel that we should focus on a solution.

One solution that I would propose is to create a required high school class for all graduates in the State of Georgia. It is a class on parenting and on how to raise a child. I don’t mean how to change diapers, but how to create a young person with character and good values (knowing the basic right from wrong). This is where it all starts. Schools cannot do it all and the parents have to parent.

By Rex

June 5, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

Has anyone considered the possibility that children in Georgia aren’t too bright? Just look at the parents!

Of course, the teachers want another raise as if that will improve test scores. Not !

By Jennifer

June 5, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

When our school board came on its road show in Gwinnett County, I asked our superintendent (Alvin Wilbanks) if the county was working on developing programs for our 8th graders that would be caught in the cycle of failing this test and remaining in middle school for an additional year. He seemed to feel that all the necessary tools were in place to help these students…time and data will tell.

By SET

June 5, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

Mike,

We don’t need to fire the teachers of the failing kids - because the problem may well be “the kids”. We should try to fix the problem.

Even dull children learn better when the learning is accompanied by fear.

Sorry folks, it’s true. When Sonny and Cher know that there will be real consequences hour to hour for failure they try harder and learn around their shortcomings.

Because our public schools have removed all of the disincentives to failure that existed in the 1950s-1960s (regardless of whether the schools were integreated or not) the dull children turn in dreadfull scores.

Maybe the Administration of these failing schools should be sacked and new Administration appointed with a mandate to light a fire under the kids - and to find and support teachers willing to do so.

And make no mistake about what means I’m talking about. Public humiliation, stress, and removal from the basketball team for having a bad day in class. Writing sentences during recess for using swear words in the hallway. Suspension/transferral to remedial ed/special ed for getting too many “F’s”. All the little things that will hurt the kid’s “self esteem” if they can’t learn to read and write and speak english the way the school wants.

This would all be shocking except that we used to do things this way and it worked well.

And as far as the parents are concerned, with modern communications such as E-Mail and Cell Phone Test messaging the school computer can notify them everything Sonny and Cher gets a grade posted in anything. So the parents can share the joy.

There will still be a Gap in the scores but I believe the lowest common denominator will be a lot higher.

By ABK

June 5, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

It wasn’t too long ago that I graduated from hight school, and I can honestly say that there are probably some (if not several) teachers that need to go. But, let’s not forget that education starts at the home. Let’s face it, many parents probably couldn’t pass the test if they tried. Even if they could, they don’t dedicate the time necessary to educate and develop their children. Parents are simply too quick to blame the school system for their own mistakes.

By B-boy

June 5, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

Lets save marriage from the gays, but screw our kids on their education. Make sense. Perhaps Governor Perdue, Republican Legislators and Some Democrats should focus on real issues like EDUCATION.

Parental involvement in their childs education would not be a bad thing either. We have to start placing some responsibility on the parents as well. Schools can not do it alone. Parents have to take and active role and provide their kids a home where learning and grades are stressed over sports and video games.

By Horrible Teacher

June 5, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

Yeah, fire all of the teachers - we’re doing a terrible job teaching your children (and making sure you aren’t beating them and making sure they are fed and making sure they have everything they need for homework and making sure they don’t hurt themselves while in our care and making sure they are happy and making sure we are challenging them and making sure we are assissting their special needs and making sure we respond to your rude emails within 24 hours and…)

P.S. 100% of my students passed Math, Science, & Social Studies - 94% of my students passed reading (the 6% would be 1 child who failed by 5 points)

By Jimmy Ray

June 5, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

FACT: Home schooled students are better educated and score higher on these types of test. Allowing others to educate your children will never surpass the individual attention that many home schooled children get from their own parents.

If you knew the competency level (or lack thereof) of most public school teachers and administrators you could understand why the kids are failing these test. I have worked in the public-school sector as a consultant and I can tell you that it is one of the worst environments to send the ones that you love most.

Parents ask yourself this question: Who knows my child better and can teach my child what they need to know to succeed in life, me or a stranger? Why do you think that home-schooling is so strong in the northern suburbs of Atlanta? Think about it…

By justaparent

June 5, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

How embarrassing for GA. Having had to transfer here from the North(CT) in a state that has superior test scores and education makes me glad that we only have one year in GA before we transfer back. No wonder everyone from the North thinks GA(esp Cobb County)is backwords and not all that smart. My kids are not even in the advanced classes and when we transferred here they were way ahead.

I know that some of the problems are the disruptions that go on throughout the schools down here. Kids can’t behave.

By VK

June 5, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this

We haven’t gotten our test results back from our school as of yet. We were told the school didn’t have the scores. I find that hard to believe. I do not understand the systems reason for holding out on the testing information and results.

As far as the teachers being fired for the students failing, that is like holding the parents responsible for a child’s behavior. For example: The kids (a few bad apples) from Grady High who attacked the ex-marine on his way home from work last Monday; did the parents (mother) of that young girl get fired because of her daughter’s actions? No. Does she get sent to jail? No.

I feel very sorry for the people who have to blame everyone else in the world for their failures. Stand up and take the blame yourself. Stop making excuses for failures of the children. BE A PARENT!

By swg

June 5, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

How can the teachers be blamed when a student was absent 55 days in a year and said he wasn’t going to take this stupid test then answered only a few before filling in all the first answers. Yea let’s fire these teachers that try to motivate this student and tell him that he can do it even when his parents say it is only a stupid test and doesn’t matter. This just teally burns me up. The teacher can only do so much. Parents have to value education, at least see to it that the students gets to school.

By Robert

June 5, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

Jimmy Ray - You are beating a drum, but to the wrong rhythum….

The fact that home school students may score better on average is not because of what you think. If there were no schools, and all students were only educated by their parents, I would believe that test scores would drop. So your thinking that home schooling will save everyone is just plain wrong.

The parents that home school are usually the more educated, the more affluent (have more money), and have more time to home school. Hoever, the children of these same parents would flourish as much if not more in the correct public school. How many parents can really teach AP Chemistry or Calculus?

Why is it that in most every blog some idiot comes on and states that the solution is home schooling?

Also, I take great offense of your generalization that most educators are not qualified. Of the high school teachers that I know, most of them are over qualified. The problem is the unruely children that do not want to learn from the teacher. Solve that problem and you will solve 99% of the problems in education in high school.

By Mike

June 5, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

Yes you are doing a horrible job teaching our students. Period. Every teacher in every state has the same problems as teachers in this state. The difference in teachers in this state use it as an excuse. Other teachers with the same set of problems are doing a better job. I’d love to see teachers lose thier jobs and end up on the streets because with the all excuses and stupidity they would never make it in the real world. Where bottomline results matter. One excuse after another with these teachers and I for one am tired of it.

By C.R.H.

June 5, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

“most” public school teachers are incompetent? Hmmm, that’s funny because MOST home-schooled children are socially retarded because they don’t get the chance to relate to their peers. And MOST parents who home school are control freaks who want to indoctrinate their children to their way of thinking because they are so closed-minded. Not to even mention most of them didn’t do so hot in school themselves.

See how silly it is to make generalizations!

By decaturparent

June 5, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this

I think it goes to show that there are just some kids/families that don’t give a rip about education and are basically unteachable.

Let’s face it and be real - some kids just aren’t going to learn. The knowledge is there if you want it. You know schools are busting their tails to get scores up because they are terrified of NCLB. We just have a bunch of idiots out there who don’t care, whose parents don’t care… and they make it really hard for the ones who do care to learn.

It’s the “You can bring a horse to water” syndrome. How do you make a kid who doesn’t want to learn pass these tests, especially in this time of extreme political correctness? Leaving No Child Behind requires that the child and/or his parents have some desire to not be left behind.

Re bad teachers, we are somewhat immune from that in our district for various reasons so I have not yet experienced a “bad” teacher. However, I would guess that in some districts, like Clayton, you might see some who were pretty scary because not too many teachers want to work there between the discipline problems and the new “direct script teaching” or whatever it is.

I think that families who don’t care create bad schools who can’t attract decent teachers who help to ensure that kids fail who create bad schools who can’t attract decent teachers and on and on. Seems like it’s a vicious cycle.

OK, it’s time for political incorrectness… I wonder if hip hop culture doesn’t have lot to do with the problems with African American scores. From the videos that I have seen and the lyrics I have heard, you can’t buy into hip hop culture and give a darn about school.

Forget firing the teachers. Fire the hip hop artists… or better yet… here’s a lawsuit… how about a class action against the hip hop stars for denying children of a decent education. It would work sort of like the cigarette litigation a few years back.

Boy, I’m crabby today.

By ktm

June 5, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

Ah yes Government schools at its best again, the teachers handbook on what teachers can teach and talk about is so much smaller than the handbook of what teachers can’t teach and talk about is a joke, if you want your kids to be leaders home or private school is the only way, listening to the state super and the local school boards ie(Gwinnett and Cobb) during their meetings brings a whole new meaning to Comedy Central

By C.R.H.

June 5, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

Oopsie there Mike! I taught (and was raised) in one of those states that you seem to think are so wonderful. And I gotta tell ya…they have the same problems alright, kids who don’t behave and parents who don’t/won’t parent. Go read some of the newspapers in those areas, this problem isn’t unique here. As far as teachers being “on the streets”, I seriously doubt that a huge number of college educated (and many with very sought after degrees) would be out of job for very long. Trust me on this, I didn’t have any trouble finding a job in the real world with my science degrees when I decided to leave teaching! If you really so tired of the excuses, why don’t you become a teacher? I could point you in the direction of a school looking for someone to teach science…

By Randall

June 5, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

Blame Sonny & the Republicans because ignorant parents raise ignorant children?

Sonny has been in charge a little over three years and this has been a problem in Georgia for over a hundred years . It is generational and cultural, and will not be solved over night or with more tax dollars thrown down a rat hole !

Turn off the BET, MTV and disconnect the cable ! Make your kids crack the books and tune out the hip hop culture !

By Ben

June 5, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this

The teachers have taught these children for one year. You parents have raised them their whole lives. Who is more to blame? In the business world if you are shipped bad goods, you get to send them back. Educators must educate even those that get no supervision, love,and care at home. Maybe the parents of the state of Georgis should look in the mirror. In today’s society we may have have bigger houses, but not better homes. Maybe the parents that do not get home untill 7pm need to reexamine their priorities, and put their family before their occupation. Do not blame educators for something that you as a parent couldn;t do in the first place.

By JustMe

June 5, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

Mike, I am a teacher that spent 15 years in the “real world” with much success and retired as a Dirctor in a Fortune 500 company. I became a teacher as a second career not really for the money but rather to stay busy and to help our children.

I am a teacher whose student’s test scores are above the state average. I teach in a school where a majority of the kids are on the free lunch program.

You are plain wrong when you assume that every teacher in every state has the same problems. This is WRONG. Many/most other states, especially in the North and West have real strong teacher unions that will stand up to politicans, bad administrations, and stupid parents. We do not have this. Teachers in this state are asked to perform miracles on a daily basis with little to no help or support from anyone (parents or administration). We get rude students that cuss us out and there is nothing that we can do about it. All we can do is smile and continue to try to teach the class. We pat a student on the shoulder and say “good work” and then we are accused of physical abuse or sexual harrassment. We try to enforce the principals school rules such as no hats in the building and a student tackles us from behind causing injury. We try to create informative lessons on a shoe string budget that leaves us no choice but to spend our own meager paychecks to purchase supplies for the students (when have you spent YOUR paycheck on YOUR company?).

YOU try to get YOUR teaching certification and join me - if you dare. I just do not think that you are capable of even getting certified much less lasting more than a few months in this profession.

Now stop wasting your time on the internet and get back to sweeping the floor! After all, one insult deserves one in return, right?

By Ben

June 5, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

Question for all those complaining. Did you go to a public school? How did you turn out? If we didn’t have as many illegal immigrants we wouldn;t have as many failures. It’s rather difficult to pass a test when you cannot speak the language.

By Bev

June 5, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this

What are the scores in California? Their population is more diverse than in the South. We live in a small town and listen to the grammer day in and day out of people who cannot get a sentence out of their mouth in proper English. And, some of them are teaching our kids. Anytime you leave your kids education to the government bad things begin to happen. Look at the mess our government has made of other things. And, we expect the government to educate our kids. The inner city in our state spends more per child than some private schools. And, they still can’t pass. I agree with the post that there are a lot of dumb kids around. An IQ of 70 isn’t very likely to produce a kid that will excell in the higher grades.

By JustMe

June 5, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

ktm - The only reason why private schools and home school works is because that leaves the “rest” to go to public school, thus driving down the test scores. Can’t you see this?

It is not that private or home school is “better” it is simply that you segregate from the “rest.”

The question should be, why doesn’t everyone work to bring up the “rest” and improve the public school rather than the flight?

By decaturparent

June 5, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

Robert.. right on. Every homeschool family I know has at least one family member with a masters or better. They also have a stay-at-home parent and a working parent who makes well above the average family income.

Any family that would homeschool would also be an excellent family at an excellent public school. Their kids would thrive because their parents give a rip.

Homeschooling is wonderful if that’s your thing and if you are qualified to do it. It’s not the answer to raising test scores though.

Mike - no.. all teachers do not have the same problems. There are unruly kids in every school, but I think that you would find quite a difference between the classrooms at Crim High verses Walton High.

By Dr. Andrews

June 5, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

Why spend more money when its obvious the kids DO NOT want to learn?

What percent of parents even attend PTA meetings? Just the ones that care.

I feel for the kids that WANT to learn. Separate them from those that do not !

By Greg

June 5, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this

Well, I won’t even get into the silly comments over teachers. Targets are too easy—uninformed and knee-jerk. Not thoughtful. Having taught at all levels, there are plenty of good professional teachers to make a real difference. About real issues: Perdue needs to fund fully reduced class size—common sense and research (and the private schools) will tell you about the benefits of fewer students per teacher. Here’s a real culprit in decreased test scores. Bowing to political pressure, Georgia Performance Standards are replacing the Quality Core Curriculum as the state curriculum. New subject matter most subjects, especially math and science. No way to predict test. GPS is just as shallow and confusing as the QCCS. In appearance, GPS looks simpler; in reality, GPS is broader and LESS focused—more difficult to anticipate learner outcomes. All items for this curriculum change were rushed, leaving most districts in the middle of guesswork, at best. Ask a teacher about GPS or research them at DOE web site.

By Leia

June 5, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this

I just have to let you know - if I got fired tomorrow from my teaching position; I would NOT be on the streets!

I would go back to working in the software engineering field, and the only aspect of my life that would get worse would be my commute to work everyday!

By Robert

June 5, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

Dr. Andrews: I agree with you 100%! Why are we forcing students to attend school if they are determined to not learn and to only disrupt the classroom? It just doesn’t make sense at all.

IMHO, there should be a graduation test after middle school. It isn’t required for all, but only for those students that want to pursue a high school diploma. And, in order to qualify for high school, the students must make above some cut score. For this to work, the state must also provide alternative schools for those students that do not make the cut score but do want to continue learning. These alternative schools can teach a trade such as plumbing, carpentry, and so on.

What is wrong with that proposal? It gives those that want an education a path to achieve. If a student doesn’t want an education, then fine - find something else to do!

By Bev

June 5, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

The City of Atlanta spends more per pupil than tuition at some private school. And, just look at the different results. People are teaching out kids who cannot, themselves, make a correct sentence. “I seen” is not the same thing at “I saw”. I agree with the post that we have some really stupid kids. Remember, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. I think that if our schools still gave IQ tests it might explain a lot of the problem.

By Ben

June 5, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this

If you can read these blogs maybe you should thank your teachers.

By JW

June 5, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

Robert, I agree with you 99.9% of the time (including most of what you wrote today). However, I must take exception with part of your post at 4:29 PM. If you really look at the scores (by grade level), you will notice that students are not having problems with the science at the elementary school level. As you know, the CRCT is based on content specifically for each grade level. Obviously, the kids are getting what they are supposed to at the elementary level or else you would not be seeing these scores.
Now, maybe the science curriculum needs to be beefed up at the elementary level in order to better prepare for middle/high, but don’t fault the elementary teachers for this.

By decaturparent

June 5, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

Robert .. you are right on today! I’ll just let you keep posting while I go make dinner.. Just put me down for dittos.

By Larry McDaniel

June 5, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

What is the mystery? Teachers spoon feed students test answers just before regular tests are given so that they will do well and make the school look good. When the students are faced with a real test, they fail miserably because they haven’t learned the subject material adequatly.

Discipline in the classroom is ancient history and minimal demands are put on students for any type of excellence. Violence is underreported or just simply covered up as was about 60,000 cases in Gwinnett a while back as reported in AJC.

As a pre-employment screener for ten years and having interviewed more than 10,000 new-hires, I can say with authority that today’s students cannot spell, write nor comprehend written material with any degree of compentency.

Schools in Georgia need discipline restored to the classroom and for teachers to quit teaching test answers just before the test is administered. This would then give parents a true picture of just where their kids were in the learning curve.

Thanks,

Larry M. McDaniel

By Laf

June 5, 2006 06:12 PM | Link to this

The people with the influence, money, and education values run off to the private schools and home school. The public school ends up with a majority of students from less educated lower socio-economic families. The ones that escapes to the private school sector and home school lose interest in public education. Then they elect a government that is more interested in protecting the wealth of the well todo and keeping the Gays in their place. So who is left to worry about the public schools.?

By just me

June 5, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

My doctor said he could not fix my car today. I was amazed. I figured since politicians can supposedly fix education, then certainly a doctor could fix my transmission. You wouldn’t believe this either. A man that never graduated high school fixed my transmission.

By SET

June 5, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this

Sorry about the typos - These posts are keyed in rapidly between things during the day.

The writer above who mentioned that other states aren’t having the (poor results) problem misses the point. The student populations in each state are different. They will produce different performance scores due to IQ, cultural and ethnic differences (including bastardy rates).

You can’t blame teachers in one part of the country or a state for the performances of their students when you are comparing apples to oranges.

Yes we have some teachers that can’t speak English or count well. In California we have the CBEST test to keep out the non-fluent as substitute teachers. Guess what the breakdown of that test is? Check it out on the Internet. There are many (liberals) who complain that test is culturally biased and wish to lower it’s pass threshold. Others say it is too low already.

I try to support teachers - but as long as the schools are run like nuthouses the difference between a good and bad teacher is shallow. Bright kids teach themselves and dull kids learn very little no matter what. The output of the school corresponds to the IQ of the incoming students with little added value from the school.

I hope that with enough people talking about this subject (the public schools) and maybe complaining we will get schools that add value to all students - and it won’t happen with the current one-size-fits-all way of education.

I see this blog as a place to discuss failed school administration rather than teachers. I believe the teachers are in general trying to do the best they can. I don’t think that’s true of the school administrators.

I don’t hear of administators bringing school supplies to impoverished kids.

By Jimmy Ray

June 5, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

There will always be those who want to work hard and succeed in life.

Then there are those who sit around and wait for the “government” to take care of them.

Parents who really want their kids to succeed will put in enought time and effort to raise their kids to have respect for others, be discplined enough to behave, and be instilled with a good work ethic.

Public, private, or homeschooled, IT ALL STARTS WITH THE PARENTS doing their job!

Stop making excuses about this and that and blaming others and start being a parent.

And yes, I agree with the post about hip-hop, MTV, and television/entertainment in general. Throw out the gameboy, ipod, and all the other toys until the grades are good and the homework is complete.

CRH, I am sure that you think that all homeschoolers are “socialy retarded” but I think that you are just insecure about your own self. All the nearby public school kids come to our house everyday at 3:00 to play with our children because my kids actually know how to carry on a conversation and have fun. I guess next you’ll blame it on something else.

By Debbie

June 5, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

Another reason I do not question my pulling my daughter out of a Cobb County School, 8th grade 60 days before school was out. National testing, 6th grade, according to Cobb? 8th….let’s just pass em on to high school and cross our fingers.

Not only has she caught up, she’s now doing 10th grad work while the kids she went to school with are going to be left floundering in “Public Club High”

We are homeschooling, something I did not do with my other 4 now grown Georgia boys. They struggled as well.

Parents, take a really, really close look at not only the CRCT but look at your childrens IOWA tests………don’t let the schools set them up for failure.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

June 5, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this

There is a major disconnect between our educators and the students. The only thing that will close the gaps in education is smaller class sizes and extended class sessions.

I don’t believe that any of the students who failed the CRCT should be promoted, unltess they received a “C” in all subjects for the last 2 (nine weeks). They should all have to go to summer school, but remain in their current grade. If you didn’t learn anything during an entire school session, you could not have obtained anyting during the summer session.

I would look at students who came close to passing on a case by case basis, but I would still want proof - they would be successful in the next grade.

Summer school should only be for students who are on the border for one subject.

By John

June 5, 2006 06:30 PM | Link to this

These scores as usual are meaningless. Ban all standardized tests and go back to teaching things that matter. Georgia schools started their decline in 1972, which was the first year standardized test reporting began. The best scores then as now were in wealthy suburban counties and small homogenous towns like Bremen, Calhoun and Trion. It doesn’t mean they are the best schools—it simply means they know how to administer tests. There is a reason the best private schools don’t give standardized tests—they know they have nothing to do with what a child does or should learn or what a teacher should teach.

By Dr. Andrews

June 5, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this

Robert,

That is an excellent proposal, which is actually used in Japan. The kids that excel and overachieve are steered toward the math,sciences and technological curriculums. Those who score average or below, are steered toward the assembly lines or more manually skilled jobs.

By Shabazz

June 5, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

The Atlanta school system spends an average of $12,000 PER student ! For that kind of money it would be more cost effective to send each child to a private school. At least the child would have a chance !

By stine

June 5, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this

Congratulations, all of those who passed can now advance to 9th grade… am I the only one who read the part about the 8th grade aptitude level of these tests?

By Anne

June 5, 2006 06:37 PM | Link to this

I teach in Georgia. I went in hoping to make a differance. I’m told how NOT to teach, I’m pounded daily by a subtle reminder of our funding. I’m called to task if I expand a class or lesson to help students master a subject. It’s about making the numbers to get the funding, to get the raises, to keep the benefits, our jobs are on the line if we don’t tow the line.
I’m so sad as I have students every year who would benefit from what I can give…but my employers won’t allow me to.

I’m waiting for them to pass out a McEducation uniform and a drive up window.

By Me

June 5, 2006 06:40 PM | Link to this

I was going to post another response to the obnoxious bloggers that blame the teachers, but I’m too busy working on fulfilling my masters degree in Education…tomorrow I’ll get up in the morning for my second job in the “real world” to make enough money to afford my masters…

By Mel

June 5, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this

If food stamps, public housing and welfare checks were tied to a childs behavior, attendance, and performance in schools; the test scores would rise dramatically. When you spend 90% of your time correcting disruptive, unmotivated children whose parents couldn’t care less, it is a little difficult to raise test scores. Not to mention getting special needs children out from under tables and keeping them from barking and biting other students during class, since the law says that they must be included in the “regular classroom.”

By JW

June 5, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this

Jimmy Ray,

CRH was only using faulty generalizations (much like you did in your post) to show the absurdity of such generalizations. Fighting fire with fire I guess you could say. Go back and reread the entire post by CRH (especially the last sentence). If you want to advocate for home schooling, that is wonderful! However, do try to avoid making false generalizations about public schools, teachers, public school students and their parents. It does not help your cause.

By SET

June 5, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

Shabazz,

Don’t you see - if you sent the lower class public school students to private schools the “private” schools would cease to be private. It’s not the dirt the school sits on that makes it a better school, it’s the students in them that makes the school a better school.

This is why I oppose school vouchers - I don’t want private schools taking in strays.

Back to public schools - You can forget fixing or changing the parents of these kids. The schools have to operate regardless of the support or non-support of the parents. Public Schools have to sort incoming students and work them to the best of their potential. If Mommy and Daddy help, great. But it’s optional.

Public Schools are our lowest common denonimator and I want that denominator raised high. Unusually dull or troublesome children would be best sent down to remedial, special ed, locked-reform, or in-patient mental health Schools. And while we’re at it we should reinstate schools for wayward (promiscuous) girls!

By C.R.H.

June 5, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this

Wow, Jimmy Ray, you totally missed the point huh? Read much? Go back and re-read my posts as well as the assinine post you made. Trust me, insecurity is not one of my many attributes. And really…ALL of the public school children come to your house to play? You must have a very large house. I am so impressed! Maybe the kids in Georgia act the way they do because of the smog? Or maybe something in the water? Amazing arrogance on your part, but I guess since you home-school you know better than all of us who have walked the walk.

By C.R.H.

June 5, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this

I agree Mel…in several states those “benefits” (handouts) are tied to school issues. Wish we could do it here.

By Leia

June 5, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this

SET - you are so right about the schools for “wayward girls.” I’m so sick of seeing those pregnant teens walk the halls, proud as a peacock. This year, my school had 17 of them! It kills me to know that we are REQUIRED to provide these students with home services and lessons for when they go out on maternity leave. When I was in high school, these girls went to St. “Somebody” (I can’t remember the name) School For Girls - a building that looked like a medieval prison!

By ticked off

June 5, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

I’ve lived in Georgia for a year now. I can honestly say that this was the worst mistake I have ever made. I am so tired of Georgia, especially Dekalb County School District a.k.a the Ghetto. I practically lived at my children’s Middle Schools to complain about the poor quality of teaching. The school administration did not encourage my children to meet their full potential. The teachers seem so restless and drunk yes i said drunk!!!! They should fire the School Administrators, School Superintendent and all those who work in the District offices who have failed to perform at the 100%level. Firing the teachers will not solve the problem, they teach the kids below level because that’s what there told to do,they can only work within the guide lines that are passed down to them. I regret that I moved to this state let alone into Dekalb Ghetto County. If I am not relocated in another state by the time school starts back up, I will be without a doubt home schooling!!! Just like this computer garbage in garbage out!!!

By Vicki

June 5, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this

In a perfect world, teachers would be able to teach the children and the parents would work with the teachers to teach the children. The administration would help the teachers teach the children and the parents would work with the teachers to teach the children. Then the county or city would help the administration and the teachers and the parents help teach the children. After, the state would help the county or the city, administration, the teachers and the parents help teach the children. Dang! I just woke-up….

By CH

June 6, 2006 08:15 AM | Link to this

If you want the scores to go up make the schools give the tests before spring break. Not a week after, do you really think the kids are ready for this kind of testing after a week off. Not. The schools do this so they can get federal dollars because they can claim that they need the money for more teachers or other things. Come on people wake up and let your school board know how you feel. Maybe it’s time some of the school board members need to work a real job and not one that sits up there behind a big desk and tells you how your child should be schooled. If you don’t get results there go to the top.

By concerneddekalbparent

June 6, 2006 08:24 AM | Link to this

Hey ticked off…

Could you email me at concerneddekalbparent@yahoo.com ? Thanks. I would love to “talk” to you some more.

By Terrence Maurice Cummings

June 6, 2006 08:32 AM | Link to this

From what I’ve seen, young people are out on MySpace.com instead of edifying themselves more positively.

No deposit! No return

Terrence Maurice Cummings Blythewood, SC

By Earl

June 6, 2006 08:38 AM | Link to this

As uh conserned Georgia parunt I thank it is crazy that my yougin kant pass no test like this un. I holler at em all the time ta git ta studyin. It make them smarter and give me time by musefl to ress on the cough with mah cigs and watchin Jerry Spanger. Why kant them good fer nuthing teacher get little Billy Bob, Bobby Bill, Sadie Sue, Susie Ann and Earl Jr. to git smarter.

Dang

By MWR

June 6, 2006 08:43 AM | Link to this

CRH….you are clueless. Ford ee’s. They work really hard in that union environment….How about holding the parents accountable. Look at the groups that did well. I’m willing to bet parents were much more involved..

By Joe

June 6, 2006 08:46 AM | Link to this

The education system clearly is broken, but the root cause eludes definition. Some would blame the teachers, some would blame the parents, others would blame the system. I think that we need to look beyond blaming and apply resources to fix the problem, not lay blame.

Personally, I believe that over time we have diluted our childrens’ education in the name of political correctness, not wanting to hurt anyones feelings nor stigmatize anyone. Get a Grip!!! Stratification is a natural process - some will exceed , most will do OK and some will fail. period.

Everyone can not come in first place. There will be those who get left behind - plain and simple - whether it is because they simply don’t have the raw materials, or the desire to use what raw materials they have or behavioral issues or whatever the cause may be.

The education system has designed itself to produce predominantly average students, with the goal of everyone getting a “C”.

I feel that we have forced our teachers to expend an inordinate amount of energy to pull the lagging 10 or 20 percent of our total student population to a barely passing level, rather than cut them loose and place them into a remdial system that has a different set of goals and techniques. In trying to keep everyone together, we have sacrificed the middle and upper acheivers. Those students who are at the median or higher simply have to fend for themselves.

The “system” needs to be fixed to allow for the application of the correct motivators for the different types of students.

By Educatorx3

June 6, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this

Oh my! Where to start?

SET…”Even dull children learn better when the learning is accompanied by fear” I have to wonder where you found that educational philosophy! I think we need to examine the difference between knowledge and understanding. You are right in that we can scare children and force them to memorize answers but my job as an educator is to help students understand the concepts. I don’t see fear as being a component in the equation.

Jimmy Ray…FACT: Home schooled students are better educated and score higher on these types of test. Actually, the fact is that home school students don’t take a criterion-referenced test. Many of them do take a norm-referenced test and many of them score well. However, I have served as the home-school coordinator for a Metro Atlanta school system and I can tell you that not all parents who choose to homeschool do it because they are better qualified to teach their children. Many of them pull their children out of school because they get angry about rules and regulations; many choose to homeschool to keep from having to get their children up and on a bus in the mornings; some are so afraid of the world in general that they want to keep their children locked inside the house. Please don’t make generalizations about the success of all home schooling families, and please don’t state as fact what is nothing more than your opinion. You have to remember that just as you only hear the bad things about public schools and the good things about home schooling, there are two sides to every story.

Greg….While I don’t agree with everything you said about the new curriculum, you hit the nail on the head with your statement: All items for this curriculum change were rushed, leaving most districts in the middle of guesswork, at best. I know for a fact that superintendents around the state, curriculum directors and their organization, and employees of the GA DOE asked for more time to prepare the GPS and the schools for the implementation of the new curriculum. The decision to implement on the current timeline was certainly a political decision and not an educational one! The GPS (Georgia Perfomance Standards) could be a great curriculum. It has great potential. However, due to the decision to put things in place before all the components and the state-wide training were completed, it is not being utilized in the appropriate manner. Had teachers had time to study the curriculum and learn more about how to use a standards-based curriculum and authentic assessments, we could have expected increased test scores without an implementation dip. Had schools been supplied with adequate resources - both time and money - to work on the plan of implementation and the redelivery of state training, we might be looking at improved test scores in all areas. But time was not in the plan…re-election was at hand!

As long as we have an elected state school superintendent and an appointed state school board, we will have issues with what is appropriate and best for our students. When questions asked from the leaders have more to do with re-election than with education, we will never have leadership that gains the respect of the organization and can therefore be the needed change agent.

So many posters belittle the teachers. I’ve said before there are folks in every profession that are ineffective - education is no exception. However, until you have walked in the shoes of a public school teacher, you don’t have all the facts. You are unaware of the pressure of unfunded mandates, (reduction in class size at the same time funding is cut!). You don’t know about the constant swinging of the pedulum of best practices (otherwise known as “let’s jump on another bandwagon”) You can’t even imagine the duties and responsibilities that have nothing to do with teaching students.

Instead of blaming the teachers, we should all take time to reflect on what we can do to make things better. Parents, be sure your children go to school prepared to learn and come home to a place where education comes before other pursuits. Community members, business owners, other concerned individuals - become a mentor, volunteer to help a child who doesn’t have the resources or support to do his/her best in school. Volunteer some time in a school setting. Those of you who are so quick to assume that teachers don’t know their content, share what you know. Are you an expert in biological sciences? Then offer to help a student who is interested in what you do. Do you love math? Then tutor a student in algebra.

Bottom line? The education of our children will determine the future of our country. Quit complaining and put your words in action. Anne Frank said it best…”how wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world.”

Sorry for the diatribe! I got on the soap box and couldn’t get down!

By Karen Armsby

June 6, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

Faced with such high numbers of failing CRCT scores, why can’t you teachers recognize that your school overseers (aka admins) are keeping all of you enslaved to PC promotions and unprofessional conduct. Arise and take back your profession, overthrow those institutional minded administrations, and take back your classrooms. Return to the basics, establish some reading and math bootcamps, and teach the children reading, writing and arithmetic (aka math). Here’s what SET said on June 2 at 2:13pm in the Grady thread: The biggest problem of the public schools is the false mission statement that they are there to produce competent students, That is not why the schools are there anymore. I want people to understand me on this. I don’t care how bright or dull a class full of kids are. A good teacher with the full backing of the school administration can get more out of them than the students ever thought they were capable of. But you can’t accomplish this if one of your goals is to keep them smiling and happy. (Parents also).

By Tired

June 6, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

To ticked off I believe that there is club of parents who have encountered the same situation.

By Jeff

June 6, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

Time to start a firestorm, but this is based on my observations at the HS I spent these past few months at:

Patti, I may have a reason for the great disparity between the black and white scores. You see, I was checking out my old school before I went and noticed the same type of disparity before I went in. I too was honestly blaming the teachers/ administrators.

Then I became a teacher at said school.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I can honestly tell you that these teachers were doing everything they could. They were giving the exact same instruction to the kids no matter what background the kid came from. If you were sitting in 1st period Algebra 1, you got the exact same lesson that every other kid in that teacher’s 1st period Algebra 1 got.

Here’s the disconnect: By and large, the black kids weren’t following along with the lesson and were actively disrupting the class. If a white kid wasn’t paying attention, 8 times out of 10 they were sleeping or talking quietly to one or two other people. If a black kid wasn’t paying attention, 9 times out of ten this kid was yelling across the room or otherwise making a fool out of him/ her self disrupting the class (“dancing”, attempting to rap, etc)

You could tell who wanted to learn and who didn’t, and the test scores that I saw and the behavior I saw in class pretty well matched up, and it matched up nearly perfectly along racial lines.

The sad thing? Whenever I contacted a parent of a black child, the parent RARELY had any clue what the child was doing at school and told me that the kid would have severe repercussions when they got home. Too bad I started calling home so late in the semester!!

In other words, this primarily comes down to one group: the students. If white kids are getting 77%, there is absolutely no reason the black kids should not be. They are getting the same instruction from the teacher.

Though I do acknowledge that admins were FAR stricter with my white kids than the black ones…

By ElementaryAP

June 6, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

As a school administrator, I can tell you that 90% of the kids at my school who failed are the ones whose parents are NOT involved in their education. My teachers are picking up these kids and taking them to summer school because their parents won’t. Now, who cares about the education of these kids? Education begins at home. If parents don’t value it, then neither do the kids.

By Sick of the Whining

June 6, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

A child’s education is the responsibility of the parents period. Did the parents with children who failed…

Join the PTA? Volunteer at the school? Review the upcoming curriculum each year? Check homework every night? Assist their children with assignments? Help them prepare for the test? Make certain they were prepared each day? Make certain they made up missed work? Talk with the teachers throughout the school year?

This mentality that one can drop off one’s children at school and never give the progress of the child’s studies another thought is to blame. In general, and certainly with public schools, the institutions are only as good as the level of parental involvement.

Blame for the failures of these students rests on the shoulders of their parents.

By Bill

June 6, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

Teaching in a GA school opens one’s eyes to what is happening. I have taught around the state in a variety of school systems - rural and urban and the students are all basically the same. They are young people doing what we as a society say is ok: talking on cell phones, doing hair, wearing clothes off the backside or revealing, wearing clothes that schock, talking about drugs, whose shoes are best, whose clothes are “right” and not doing homework. Many students feel if they pass the Criterion Referenced Competency Test (CRCT) they will pass whether they do their work or not. It is true. The sheer numbers of students failing the CRCT in grades where they have to be held back (unless a committee agrees to move them on) keep those who failed 2 or more classes out of summer school. This is a shame. It is also a shame that after 30 plus years of integration we still look at race and say we are not educating our black or minority students. What about the students that have come and are coming to our country having to learn English/American and are passing CRCT tests after only being here a few years? What are we saying? Do we believe that all students can learn? I believe that most teachers believe that. There are many questions to ask. I think one question we need to ask is where are the parents? The answer for many are they,like the teachers, are trying to survive. They either are working a variety of shifts, angry at school for a variety of reasons or __. You can fill in the blank. We need to bring our priorities back in line with the idea that schools can not alone win the war for our childrens’ minds. We need parents, community members, religious officials, and all of society - with and without children to work together to help each of us become who we can and should become. I could write or spout on for longer. You get the picture. Lets look past our differences and find a way to solve this issue.

By Jackie

June 6, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

We would need to go to the grave and resurrect the teachers and administrators of my era (1960’s) to fix this problem. Although it was a segregated system for me, it was far better than it is now. It shows how community disintegration in middle and low income areas, along with lack of concern for the whole ruins a society. If you’re interested look at UNITY 08, we need something different going on here!

By Sick of the Whining

June 6, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

Could not have said it better myself. Kudos ElementaryAP.

“By ElementaryAP

June 6, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

As a school administrator, I can tell you that 90% of the kids at my school who failed are the ones whose parents are NOT involved in their education. My teachers are picking up these kids and taking them to summer school because their parents won’t. Now, who cares about the education of these kids? Education begins at home. If parents don’t value it, then neither do the kids. “

By JOJO

June 6, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

I am a middle school teacher. Before everyone starts the blame game, perhaps we need to look at the parents of some of these kids. Our school had a parent’s night to discuss school issues this last session. We have over one thousand students in our school. Only two parents showed up! This is the truth…two parents. I was disgusted…

By Mz. B.

June 6, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this

CRCT scores are so deceiving !!!Just because a student passes the CRCT does not mean that he/she is prepared for the next grade….and certainly does not mean that he/she is reading or doing math on their grade level. A minimum passing score usually indicates that the student is reading and/or doing math 3 to 5 grade levels below. A student must score 75 to 100 points above the minimum in order to conclude that he/she is performing at grade level. The state encourages the perception that if a student passes, everything is rosy…Far from it!!!

By Derrick

June 6, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

Jeff seems to assert that all black kids are disruptive in class. I have to disagree. There are many black children who are very attentive in class. Of course that may come from good parenting and the ability of teachers to control their class. Through no fault of their own, teachers have had their hands tied by laws when it comes to discipline.

By Teacher, Teacher

June 6, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

Like driving, public education should be a privilege, not a right !

Those who want to learn and obey the rules, should be afforded an education.

Those who do not express a desire to learn and can’t abide by the rules, are removed from the learning area. Instead of learning math, english, science and social studies, they can be trained to pave roads, pick vegetables and cook the fries.

By wayne

June 6, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this

Hate to make to make it all about race again, but most black parents do not consider education important and thus their kids misbehave, dress inappropriately, act inappropriately. There are exceptions, of course, but it is not the norm (as with Asians, Indians, Jews, most middle/upper middle class whites).

By Mike

June 6, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this

Your right about people in every profession underperforming. Those people are usually let go for performance reasons why not these teachers who are CLEARLY underperforming. It’s one excuse and made up BS idea on here after another. People coming up why other states are doing better with one excuse after another. THATS THE PROBLEM. It’s all the excuses. I can and will thank my teachers for allowing me to read this post. My parents sent me to a private up in the Boston area. The public school system is much better there then the excuse ridden system here. For the guy who said I wouldn’t pass the state cert test he’s probably right. Why? Because it’s a waste of my time. I make over 100k a year with no college degree as a supervisor for a group of engineers all of which have degrees and none of which can think outside the box or do anything unless it’s clearly laid out for them. My best engineer has no degree. You figure it out. I am tired of spoon feeding these “college educated” half wits.

By Mz. B.

June 6, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

One more thing….I , too, was convinced that lack of parent involvement was the problem….UNTIL my school population changed and Asian students began to enroll. Then, I began to realize that it is not parent involvement that makes the difference…i.e. attending PTA meetings, parent conferences, etc. Most of the parents of our Asian students were working 2 and 3 shifts . Many of students get up in the morning after their parents have left for work and go to bed at night before thier parents get home….only seeing them once or twice a week. Their parents are never able to attend PTA meetings or parent conferences….yet these students are among our most academically outstanding . They are disproportionately represented at awards days. THey are well behaved and serious about their educations.So I have concluded that it is not really parent participation….IT IS PARENTAL ATTITUDE !

By Susan

June 6, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this

Most teachers are not the problem, parents and area office administrators (not school principals) are. When a teacher gives a deserved bad grade or consequences to a misbehaving child and the parent goes to the superintendant and the teacher is told to change the grade etc. what are we accomplishing? When a parents focus is more on sports than homework what are we teaching our children? I have a child that does not test well, can I blame his teachers? NO! I am not a teacher but I know several and I know some things that do go on behind the scenes with threats from parents, administrators and from students themselves. If parents would let the teachers do their jobs we would get more accomplished.

By Corleone

June 6, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this

DeKalb schools are “ghetto”?

What else would you expect from a county represented by Cynthia McKinney and Vernon Jones, along with a cast of other characters?

McKinney & Jones have a built-in constituency that will keep them in office. My heart bleeds for the children of that district ! A mind is a terrible thing to waste !

By Jeff

June 6, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

Actually Derrick I am only making the assertion that on average, and my own observations hold here, black students are 27% more disruptive than their white counterparts. I had SEVERAL black students that were AMAZING. But by the end of the semester, if I had a student that was an absolute terror to have in class, 9 times out of ten the student was black. Note that it was (thankfully) only one or two students per class, but it was VERY RARELY a non-black student that was giving me the most problems in any given class.

BTW: Talking about racism: Most of my black students that gave me the most problems? They wouldn’t listen to anything I said because I was white. (Occassionally this was stated flat out, and I even had one parent state this straight up in a conference with a black administrator!! Most of the time it was obvious from the constant reference to me as a “racist”. I had one girl yell this in front of the class and I called her mother about it. Mother flat out called her own daughter a fool and said that HS kids were too young to know what racism truly is. Mind you, this is a black female stating this, and she continued that black kids these days think that if they don’t get what they want they think its racist.. I flat out told her: AMEN Ma’am!!)

By wayne

June 6, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

Hate to make to make it all about race again, but most black parents do not consider education important and thus their kids misbehave, dress inappropriately, act inappropriately. There are exceptions, of course, but it is not the norm (as with Asians, Indians, Jews, most middle/upper middle class whites).

By Teacher, Too

June 6, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this

I’ve been reading this blog with great interest. I teach all three grade levels in middle school. I refuse to give in to poor teaching, and as a result, has caused a great deal of stress as well as reward. Where I teach is a minority school. Holding students to high standards is often a challenge, as they don’t want to word hard. So, I e-mail parents every two weeks with upcoming due dates, send home progress reports every two weeks, and if parents don’t have e-mail, I call when I have concerns.

Basically, there are many students who don’t want to put forth anything but the most minimal effort. I gave a difficult, long-term assignment this year and caught at least five students who plagiarized on numerous parts of the assignment. It didn’t faze them that they were caught- it was an attitude of “oh well.” But then there were the students who were appreciative of the fact that I worked them hard and were proud of what they accomplished in my class this year. That is what brings me back to the classroom in August.

Sometimes, even with parents and teachers working with a student, the student just doesn’t care. (I do think this might be more prevalent in high school, though).

The public should be concerned with the success and/or failures of public education. And yes, there are many successes in the public schools that often get overshadowed in the face of test scores. And yes, there are significant challenges, but I stil believe in public education. (I am a product of public schools. I went to a leading research university and hold an advanced degree. My public education has served me well.)

How can public education be successful when we don’t hold students accountable? What are we saying to students when they fail math, language arts, and science, yet “place” them in the next grade level? If students are not held accountable, why should they put forth any effort? Only teachers and administrators are being held to any standards now, not parents, not students.

By Shaquilla

June 6, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

Ticked Off is correct!

Emory is one of the great learning institutions in the country.

Minutes, even blocks away from the Emory campus are some of the worst public schools in the South. Instead of teaching skills to function in the real world, these kids are being given an “Afro-Centric” curriculum to help the kids “feel good” about themselves. I don’t see how this helps someone get a job in a country founded on Western Europeon laws and principles, and becoming more and more Hispanic.

Teach the African mumbo jumbo at home and give our kids a chance !

By That Girl

June 6, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this

“By Just Me” brought up an important point about how strong teacher unions effect the quality of education. My parents were both lifelong teachers up north. They were both well educated; my mother had a Masters degree, my father a Doctorate. They both could have been successful in a lot of other careers. They went into teaching, and stayed in teaching, because it was a stale career with great benefits and allowed them to give back to the community. They didn’t get rich as teachers but they made a decent living new they would have a good retirement one day. I went to a public school and all of my teachers were career teachers. When I moved to Atlanta I was amazed to see how many peoople are teachers for a few years and “retire” at thirty. Up north teaching is a well respected profession and there isn’t any teaching shortages-not where I’m from anyway. People will often substitute teach for a number of years before they get hired permanently and then retire after 25 or 30 years. I think if teachers where paid better here and had job security we could attract more people into the teaching profession. The teaching profession does not get the respect it deserves in the south. The states with higher teacher salaries have better SAT scores and lower drop out rates. We need to invest in our children by investing in our teachers-and no I am not a teacher!

By Jim

June 6, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this

A few years ago my son had to take summer school and I was dismayed. He found his way and is doing well. But, I was surprised that not only do the school systems charge for summer school, the cost is outragaous! $250.00 for half a credit.

Are the 8th graders going to have to pay for summer school?

Also, if they don’t go to summer school and have to return to the 8th grade, where is the school going to put all these kids? 7th graders are moving up, now some 8th graders will be jammed into those classes. Doesn’t seem fair to the moving up 7th graders.

I’m so glad my son is out of school.

By Blake

June 6, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

Parents whose kids struggle and then blame it on the school kill me. Why don’t you take a look in the mirror. If you’re kids aren’t being pushed to your liking, then push them yourself. Their your kids.

Who gives a rat’s a** about test scores anyway. All it does is encourage teachers to “teach to the test.” This kind of education method doesn’t result in actual learning.

Public schools work a lot better in basically every other industrialized country in the world. I’m baffled therefore, why some on here are adamant that public schooling can’t work. Are the Swedes smarter than Americans? Are the Norwegians? The Japanese?

I think we should just separate the ones who care from the ones that don’t. If you’re not going to try, and you are just going to be a disruption then you can’t come to this school.

By G-man

June 6, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

Don’t shoot the messenger!

Teachers, public schools, and I cringe to say the Bush Administration is not to blame. Testing is just the sunshine that has been let in to that dark and stale institution called lowered expectation of the public school system. The cold reality is that a good number of parents are not involved in their children’s education.

Mom and/or Dad don’t know that the apple of their eye is failing until the progress report comes home (if it makes it home depending on the integrity of the child). By then its too late to hone on the skills that are required to pass the test let alone the class.

Hard questions require drastic actions: 1st. If the state is serious about education, pass a law mandating employers to give leave for parents to attend parent/teacher conferences during normal business hours.

2nd. The state education board needs to put technology in place for weekly updates of the individaul student’s behavior and academic preformance.

3rd. The county school board needs to reduce the amount of vacations the student gets during the year.

4th. Make it a requirement for parents or guardians to volunteer to for some school function at least once during the school year.

5th. Open summer school for all students. If you failed you have to go. If you as parent feel that you child can get ahead with summer school you are free to send them.

By CRB

June 6, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

Parents are the problem.

I went to public school, attended junior college on a scholarship, transferred to Georgia Tech after two years, and got my degree three years later after a change of major.

I’m making near six digits in salary now.

Why?

Because my parents were always there behind me, making sure I worked hard and had what I needed to suceed.

My mom also happened to be a public school teacher.

Parents have to make their children’s education a priority. They can’t leave it up to the school system entirely.

By Casanova

June 6, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

When the eduation system has as many problems as Georgia’s, there is plenty of blame to go around.

While there is no doubt that we have some incompetent teachers, the FAR bigger problem is a gross lack of parental involvement.

When I say parental involvement, I’m not talking about attending the PTA meetings. I’m talking about involvement at home, i.e., preparing the kids for school.

For example, I have a friend whose wife was a first-grade teacher at a public school in rural South Georgia. She was shocked and dismayed at how many of her students … most of them minorities … couldn’t say their “ABC’s”, couldn’t count to 10, couldn’t tell their left from their right, couldn’t identify basic colors.

In other words, it was obvious that no one in their homes had made even the least bit of effort to prepare them for the start of their formal educations. They are forced to play “catch-up” right off the bat, and they never overcome it.

(Contrast these students with my niece, who could write her name and read “Dick and Jane”-type books by the time she was 4. No, she wasn’t born with a silver spoon, but she did have a mother and a father who cared enough about her future to spend a few minutes reading to her every day.)

Another anecdote: I live in a small town that has a Chinese restaurant that I visit once each weekend.

The Asian woman who runs the restaurant speaks VERY poor English. She has two children who appear to be 13 or 14, and there are ALWAYS in the restaurant. If they are not bussing tables, they are sitting in a corner with their schoolbooks.

To cut to the chase: these two kids, who are the children of a woman who barely speaks English, have their pictures in the local newspaper once or twice a month for their academic exploits.

The bottom line in all of this education debate is that, unfortunately, not many government programs, no matter how well-intentioned they may be, can overcome urine-poor parenting.

Acquiring an education is not a passive experience. It requires effort on the part of the students, and you can’t educate someone who doesn’t want to be educated.

The fact that so many parents don’t instill their children with the proper “educational” mindset is a tragedy.

By Tracie

June 6, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this

To “Justme” and “C.R.H.”, I say “amen”

To “Jimmy Ray” and “Mike”, I say give the teachers some slack and look at the BIG PICTURE.

I am not an educator, although I know and RESPECT MANY of them!

I have 3 boys of my own and IF I had the Opportunity to home school, like other Friends and My Aunt, then I Would Gladly Accept that Challenge, however MANY of us do not have the leisure or finances to pay our bills should one parent quit working in order to do this….not to mention single parents who would be unable to home school. Before you get sarcastic and say give up extravagancies of a lifestyle, let me say that I only buy used cars (which are paid for) and the only debt I have is my home)…therefore Home Schooling (although it can be wonderful), is NOT an OPTION for everyone…..unless you are willing to open up your own “Home School” and allow my children to attend???

Which brings me to my next comment: Of my 3 children, 1 has a form of Autism. SO, not only are the educators trying to teach him the basics, but they also have to follow his “IEP”…Individual Education Plan. So lets talk about a TOUGH JOB…I APPLAUD the teachers for Growing Leaps & Bounds in my school district in Carroll County over the last few years and for the willingness to work with Special Ed Children. You CANNOT Lump all children into the same bucket, but that is what the CRCT does.

Do I think Education needs to be fixed? YES Do I think it is one person’s fault? NO…therefore Sonny Perdue cannot fix what all the Lawmakers before him SCREWED UP!!!

It didn’t take a day to build an empire and Education won’t be fixed in a day, week, month, or even a year. IT TOOK DECADES to destroy and it will take TIME to repair.

Be a Part of the SOLUTION! Support your Schools & your teachers!

Take this to the lawmakers: Allow parents to Discipline children at home and put discipline back in school. Take the # 1 School System in the Nation & Model it…

By Father

June 6, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

I have two children, boy/girl twins. They’re normal kids. Both have scored very high on all tests, and routinely make the honor roll. I never have to ask them if they’ve completed their homework; they do it without being asked. I believe they enjoy this success because when they were in the first, second and third grades, I spent an hour or more EVERY evening with them teaching them how to do their homework and seeing that it was done and that they understood the material, and causing them to fully understand that was my expectation and would also be theirs. It was not easy. My son was later diagonosed with ADHD, which has been a challenge to work with his behavior in order to overcome this disorder, which he has done. I invented “marching” where we marched around the house and the yard spelling so that he could learn to focus, and I insisted that his sister march with us, though she didn’t need the help with spelling. The result, they still help each other, and both are gifted students. They are also very busy with other activities, as both are accomplished musicians, my daughter is entering her fifth year of competitive gymnastics, my son plays baseball fall and spring, both have taken dance when they were younger, and we did two years of the Y’s Indian Guides. For me, the answer is simple, as it was for my parents. Parent love equals involvement. Children who have parents that invest real time and concern in their children, have children who excel. I’d like to have schools that reward these children, push them to their limits, and don’t hold them back while teachers and administrators baby-sit students whose parents have most obviously not invested the time in their children. It’s simple in mind. If parents invest time and effort in their children, then the children will be successful, so allow those students to attend success-oriented schools, where gifted and excel classes are offered, where there is no need to waste time on teaching manners, and where students will not be bullied or harrassed by students who don’t care to learn. For those parents who chose not to invest such time and effort in their children, and thus have children who generallyu don’t care to learn, so often cause trouble, are constantly in need of remedial training, need such classes as “manners” and other training they should get at home, then these children get to go to such a school, where the teachers and administrators concentrate on keeping the children safe, stopping fights and bully behavior, teaching manners and other such social needs, and try to give these children what their parents chose not to give them, while trying to at least educate them well enough that they may be able to enter society as adults with the ability to succeed in occupational jobs, perhaps with the knowledge of how to be a responsible parent, so that their children can attend the gifted schools. We need to segregate students according to their abilities and motivation. By putting them together, we’re holding back and frustrating our future leaders, and failing to meet the needs of those whose parents don’t make the time for them, totally frustrating them and driving them to anti-social behavior.

By Patti Ghezzi

June 6, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

Jim, summer school for elementary and middle school students needing remedial help to pass the CRCT is free for parents and funded by tax dollars.

Patti

By Ray

June 6, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

Blake,

The reason public schools WORK in Japan, Sweden, Norway and most countries is that they do not have to contend with an onslaught of multi-ethnic and social issues that we have in America.

While one school excels teaching the 3 R’s, the school down the block teaching Ebonics has a 75% dropout rate and half the females are pregnant. Throw in some illegals who can’t speak English, well you get the drift !

By connie

June 6, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

Give me a break!!!! How can the responcibility of this be all teacher and schools. Will we ever stop finding excuses for our childrens failures and make them step up. We wonder why our kids are running wild in the streets and performing so poorly because all we do is find excuses for them. My daughter gave up her social life totally in order to need the demands of honors classes so she would suceed. She finished in the top 5% of her county. This wasn’t a fluke. She gave up her other activities and focused on school work so she can get a decent education. Wake up parents, if your child failed then your child failed himself. The schools/teachers role is to present the information, our children are responcible for learning it. If my daughter can spend 4 hours a night on school work why isn’t yours. These test are in place for a reason and if your child applied their selves they would have passed. Please for the love of God stop blaming everyone but your own child. Perhaps it is time they stand accountable for their failures instead of hanging our teachers out to dry. My daughter had several teachers she didn’t personally agree with and struggled with their methods of teaching, yet she did her work, focused on the big picture and finished in the top 5%.

By Parent

June 6, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

My 3rd grader failed by 3pts only on reading, passed all the other tests. We worked the practice tests on the CRCT test site and the things that were there weren’t the things he was learning in class but yet he passed them. The teacher he had this year was young and I was not happy with her @ all. I still continued to work w/my son. I don’t think that he or other students who miss the test by less than 5pts should have to sit in summer school and feel discouraged that they “failed”. If he had failed all the tests then yes, he should take it over or be held back. But 3pts! Education these days is so different then before, teachers aren’t as caring and especially biased as to who they feel should achieve more. We as parents need to be more involved with our children and stay on the teachers to be aware of what is going on in the class room.

By CommonSense

June 6, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

How long has it been since anyone who posts these comments were in a classroom learning? Let’s keep this in an adult’s perspective.

Think of it like this: Have you been on a conference call at work with 6 or 7 people and someone presented a problem facing the company. Then you and the other 6 people worked together and created and action plan steps and solutions to a problem. At the end of the call everyone feels productive.

Now imagine a conference call with 60 participants and someone has put the call on hold so the hold music is blaring someone else is on a cell phone and the wind from the window is distorting the sound and someone else is holding a side conversation which can be heard by all. How productive and successful do you think you would be in this situation at creating an action plan? I bet you would believe the group was too large and there were too many distractions to listen less on hold a meaningful discussion. Would you blame this on the presenter? Of course not

Welcome to the average classroom but instead of a conversation your kid is trying to learn science. Of course test scores would be low, you would’ve stopped listening on the call after 5 minutes your child will do the same.

Let’s try to keep perspective before we take any drastic measures.

By CommonSense

June 6, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

How long has it been since anyone who posts these comments were in a classroom learning? Let’s keep this in an adult’s perspective.

Think of it like this: Have you been on a conference call at work with 6 or 7 people and someone presented a problem facing the company. Then you and the other 6 people worked together and created and action plan steps and solutions to a problem. At the end of the call everyone feels productive.

Now imagine a conference call with 60 participants and someone has put the call on hold so the hold music is blaring someone else is on a cell phone and the wind from the window is distorting the sound and someone else is holding a side conversation which can be heard by all. How productive and successful do you think you would be in this situation at creating an action plan? I bet you would believe the group was too large and there were too many distractions to listen less on hold a meaningful discussion. Would you blame this on the presenter? Of course not

Welcome to the average classroom but instead of a conversation your kid is trying to learn science. Of course test scores would be low, you would’ve stopped listening on the call after 5 minutes your child will do the same. Let’s try to keep perspective before we take any drastic measures

By SET

June 6, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

Careful people, I thought I was the only one venting this way…

Maybe I’m not alone?

By SHERYL RANSBURG

June 6, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

This is very disturbing to find out the curriculum for the higher grades was revamped this year, example from this resulted an alarming failure for most students. I feel as a parent having my child in the school systems and having kids upset, crying wondering what will be the outcome, which was a barring and result of failing. The student may have been doing good thru out the year and to take this test resulted in failure. The child having to go to summer school and still may fail the test, then what? Let us as parents pull together to help our children, our students in making a stand in how this test is administered and changing the format which this started in the White House.

Sign Concern Parent

By Derrick

June 6, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

I have a problem with folks saying that most black children don’t want to learn and that those who do achieve are an oddity. I’m not an oddity nor are the kids that I went to school with many of us who, myself included, went on to careers in medicine and law and so on. And believe or not there are many black parents out there who do place education in the highest regard. We don’t hear about them but many of these high achieving blacks are at places like Howard University, Morehouse, Spellman, Tuskegee, North Carolina State, Tennessee State, just to name a few. It’s no cakewalk to get into any of these schools I’ve mentioned. The kids that are there you can bet worked hard to get there and their parents made sure of it. The ones that are the bad apples are not representative of the entire race-so don’t make it so

By Jeff

June 6, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Derrick,

As mentioned, I had SEVERAL black parents of the mold you described. To the point that when one of my black students was being disruptive, all I had to do was MENTION that I was going to call home - after doing so in the middle of class a couple of times - and he did what I told him to do. But then I had parents like the one I mentioned earlier that wouldn’t accept anything I said simply because I was white. I judge on the information I have, period. As with any reasonable person, when new information comes to light I analyze it and change my judgements as necessary .

By Wendy

June 6, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

I totally agree with you Robert. It is a little of everyone’s fault. There are parents today that don’t care that their child has bad manners. A lot of parents just want to get rid of their kids. They also want to blame the teachers. The parents still need to make sure the kids understand their lessons and do their homework. Then if there is a problem, go to the teacher and address it and don’t wait until your child has failed, you should know this long before that happens. Unfortunately, a lot of teachers don’t take time with the kids that they know the parents could care less. If you show them you are interested and care, they take more time with your child.

By DCH

June 6, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

Instead of jumping to blame the teachers, perhaps someone should look at the breadth of the GA curriculum, the fact that tests are taken before the end of the school year, and the fact that the tests are not uniform across the grade levels.
I am a teacher, and there were many items on that test that we hadn’t gotten to yet (especially in social studies and science). We took the test in April, but we weren’t finished with the curriculum until the end of May. Even then, the GA curriculum is so broad (including the new GPS) that it is impossible to truly teach every content strand to mastery. Then there is the issue of some grade’s tests being harder to pass than others. 3rd and 5th graders needed to get 45% correct on the math test in order to meet standards. 4th graders, though, had to get 63% correct to pass. WHY IS THIS?? The way the test is set up currently, it cannot be used to measure growth from one grade to the next - in other words - it is useless for planning instruction!

By Brian

June 6, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Teachers and administrators put too much emphasis on the CRCT tests where it creates an extraordinary ammount of stress for the students. I have four kids in public schools. The school used the 2-3 week period prior to the CRCT test as “practice time” for the CRCT. If this CRCT overload occurs in most school systems, then we should not be surprised by the results. Rather than bombarding the students with practice CRCT exams,why not “teach” them through the normal course of the school day and let them take the CRCT test without additional (and very stressful) preparation. Maybe then we could actually gauge the effectiveness of the teaching.

By Ellizabeth

June 6, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

These tests are great and there should be more like them. Too many kids are being promoted who are not competent in one or more core subjects. This happens from 5th grade on due to no child left behind and the points incentive for the schools to achieve high passing rates. If my son had received summer school in 5th grade math, the past 4 years would have been much easier on all of us. But he continued to be promoted while clearly not ready for the next challenges. Summer school was repeatedly denied since he passed with a D. Middle school needs a complete re-vamp in Gwinnett County! It stinks! The staff and teacher by-and-large are not preparing our children with the current curriculum that repeats without focus and practice. In an effort to make middle school students independent, the system is letting them do as they please and not pay the price.

By DCH

June 6, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

Hey Bev, it’s “grammar” not ‘grammer.” Might want to use spell check next time you try to correct others on their use of the English language.

By Derrick

June 6, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

By mmcburton

June 6, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

For all you “govenment schools” yahoos, I suggest you check out some government schools in Massachusetts or Connecticut. First rate. No wonder MA was tops in both 4th and 8th grade NCLB assessessments this past year. And yes, a MA public school student would run mental circles around your private or homeschool weenie-kid. At some point in time, Georgia needs to understand that the de-prioritzation of football needs to happen in our culture, preferably before the cheap cheap land runs out, which come on, is the only reason people move south to GA, or at least the reason from which all others flow.

By Me

June 6, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

DCH - we do not split hairs on spelling here. The idea is what counts!

By Marie

June 6, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

If you take a good hard look at the “blogs,” you may see part of the reason the children are failing.

Don’t blame the teachers. Children are sent to school by parents who will not allow their little ones to be corrected; parents don’t enforce rules at home regarding home work; parents don’t attend Parent Teacher meetings; parents don’t maintain contact with the children’s teachers; and parents do not emphasize the importance of an education. Children are not taught manners. They are not disciplined at home. Today’s parents look at the school system as babysitters; then they expect their children to come home with their heads crammed with knowledge.

Not all parents are like this, but many of them are. And — without a doubt — these are the parents who are protesting the loudest!

Instill the values that your (parents) parents grew up with, and you will see children who can and will learn. You have to do your part, too. Teachers are not magicians who can wave a wand and make a genius out of your little dumbo. Dumbo — and his parents — have to participate.

And, no, Georgia children are not dumb. They have been held back by integrating children who have been “underprivileged” to the point of idiocy. The curriculum has to meet the needs of the majority. Why not place children where they belong? If a student is slower (regardless of the cause), be he/she black, white, or yellow, let him/her progress at their own speed. Guaranteed that when he/she sees their peers moving ahead, they will decide to use whatever skills are laying dormant and quit relying on any injustices of the past to “get by”.

By Ann

June 6, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

I am a parent of a child being educated in the APS system and I have to say that it does leave a lot to be desired. I feel that for the most part some of the teachers are there to collect a paycheck and they have no motivation or desire to make sure that these students get it. They are only interested in working with the easy students ones that do not require added instruction. I have had an experience of seeing four teachers at my childs school that really were interested in all of the children in their class. My child is a good student but she needs a liitle help in one area. I realize that parents play a major role in the education of their children. I did every thing in my power to help. I asked them on more than one occasion to please let me know when things were not right. They even had a way to communicate to me on a daily basis , they failed to use it. They were all given my e-mail address and I e-mailed and asked questions that I rarely got answers to. I explained that as a single parent without transportation and trying to work, that e-mails was a great way to get in touch with me. To me it just showed that that they were not interested in my child’s learning. It is very sad though because she is only 11, elementary school and in my opnion that is the last place where children should be left to fiend for themselves. Children as a general rule want to make adults around them happy and proud. When we show them that we don’t care about them and their learning then they are going to take the same attitude. It is almost like we as parents have to teach the material at home and they reinforce in school. I tell you the no child left behind concept may work on paper to some but they are leaving the poor children with nothing to stand on when it comes to a good solid education. It’s really sad. I wish I could afford private school or something.

By Second coming of Anna

June 6, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

Who oversaw the precipitous drop in CRCT test scores and cut millions from education budgets? Sonny Did

By Second coming of Anna

June 6, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

On a more cogent note, when you set up institutional bias to favor the education of one race over another, which is exactly what happened in the deep south from reconstruction through the 1950’s and 60’s, you pay for that for years and years and years to come. Why? Intelligence is not a gene, but comes from exposure and expectations. If your grandfather and his father were denied opportunities for education (black) or grew up in an agrarian society (most all white Georgians pre 1960), education becomes less important and that attitude permeates throughout the subsequent generations. Time and more migrants like mmcburton will slowly bring GA into the middle of the pack nationally. The sad thing is, if we had a school superintendent with a vision and a backbone, we could turn this thing around really quickly and leapfrog some other states by remaking our curriculm for all levels more relevant to daily life and situations. When you are “at the bottom”, experiment and go in a different educational direction. You can’t lose any ground when you are dead last!

By KGM

June 6, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

Sometimes, it’s not just the teachers…sometimes it’s the children not doing the work required and the parents not being involved in the childrens’ education. I really take offense at some of these comments. I have a sister that is a teacher and she endures some of the worst kind of hell from kids (and parents) that simply will not do the work required in order to pass the class. And you want to complain? As stated in another ajc blog…YOU CHOSE TO HAVE CHILDREN. so YOU HAVE TO DO THE WORK REQUIRED IN RAISING THAT CHILD. it is the teachers job to teach, it is the students job to learn, and it is the parents job to parent. teachers do not get paid to parent and teachers do not get paid to babysit. but they may as well be considering how some children act in school these days. It is totally unfair to place all of that unwritten responsiblity and all of that unwitten expectation on the teacher when all that the teacher is there to do is to teach. The teacher is doing their job to the best of their ability. If you think that it should be done better…maybe you should be in their shoes for a week. One thing that I cannot stand is to hear people complain about something that they have the ability to change themsleves. Complaining will only get you so far. Be more involved in your childrens’ lives and in their school work and their school activities. They (children) will thank you for it in the long run.

By BF

June 6, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Tell us the socioeconomic status of the school and school system your children came from. Is it comparable to what you see in GA? How about the Race Issues? What about welfare numbers, single parent families and unemployment? I too would like for my children to attend schools where these issues are not as problematic as they are here in Georgia. It’s easy to point fingers at the problems that you can escape from.

By CH

June 6, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this

I think parents would or could be more involed if times for certain conferences, meeting and other things are held a little later than right after school. As you all know we all commute a long way to jobs. So it is hard to get to some of these things. Some employers will let some off but what do you do when more than half your employees need to leave 2-3 hrs early to attend these meetings and other things. And before you teachers say anything about this think about this, yes you are there all day and are ready to come home. Don’t you think the parents are ready to go home also. Some get up earlier than you do. And if you really want to get technical you all work only about 190 days a year and maybe 8 hours a day. While everyone else is working about 230 to 250 days a year that includes some of the holidays and maybe if you are lucky a vacation. Oh yea and you are still making $30,000 to whatever a teacher with some years make. Now do the math and break it down as to what you make a week compared to someone else making the same salary. So teachers yes you have a tough job and parents do need to be involved but it’s a 2 way street and the schools need to be more parent friendly when scheduling things. Expectially for single parents. And I will give on example of how parent friendly the school system is, open house for the school is Aug 1 from get this 3pm to 5pm. Most people don’t get off until 5:30pm. So come meet us parents half way and you might get better results.

By Tim

June 6, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

Test scores suck because of the parents complaining about Harry Potter and Evolution. Stop worrying about imposing your religious beliefs on people, stoph whining about God in the classroom, and teach your kids how to frickin read and add 2+2!

By mmcburton

June 6, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

Good points second coming. The modern-day agrarian legacy are northern burbs mcmansions for 250K which cramped northeastern residents envy and which some eventually inhabit. And for all of you soft bigotry of low expectations people (about the only true words to come of of Bush’s mouth- only they were written for and not by him) saying to yourself MA has has no black people to bring down their scores, check the NCLB median scores black students in MA, CT, and NJ-they top GA’s medians for ALL students. As a former upstate NY high school football captain, I must say culture of education, not football. We CAN do it.

By Keith

June 6, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

A few things to keep in mind (from a teacher):

The math learning standards are new. Not all grades were tested on those this year. Some, but not all grades were tested on the new standards using NEW TESTS. Tests have to be piloted and normed experimentally. This is the FIRST YEAR these test items have been used to produce a score.

I don’t say this as an overall challenge to the result. The new math standards are designed to make students think critically and solve real world problems (rather than calculate answers).

I think that people should read a bit more about the new standards before registering so much shock and awe that a large ship takes a while to turn.

By mike freeman

June 6, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

What percentage of the english as second language kids are hispanic? What percentage of the learning disabled kids are black? How horrible would the scores be if you put the kids in their correct category? As bad as the scores are, they still don’t show how bad the problem really is.

By Angry

June 6, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

If you can’t hold parents responsible for a child’s behavior, just what IS a parents job? I took the negative comments with the praise personally when my kids excelled, or failed. Thank goodness my children were taught to respect authority, the teachers’, as well as mine. When the principal called me about a problem, I gave him permission to do whatever he deemed necessary to keep my child in line. It worked wonders! And it didn’t bruise his ego one bit! (And it’s the one thing he remembers vividly about his young years!)

Education, respect, morals, etc. begin at HOME. If a teacher gets a child that is disrupting a class constantly because of a parent’s lack of involvement in their life, then that child needs to be removed from the class, or even the school, over the protests of the parents who obviously don’t care, as long as they aren’t bothered.

No, I am NOT a teacher. I am a mother who taught her children right from wrong, and pounded it into their heads. Thank goodness my words didn’t fall on deaf ears, and I have 2 wonderful kids, one of whom graduated college on the President’s List. (For those not familiar, that’s all A’s.) The other is not a college grad, but is a hard working father and husband who is passing along my methods of child rearing. Both of my kids have thanked me for being so strict, especially when they see what kids these days are getting into.

By ST

June 6, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

My seventh grade science students were also tested using the “new test”—-which supposedly required them to solve real problems and think critically about scientific issues. I was not impressed with the test—-my classroom tests required more thinking from my students than the state test did! That being said, only 60% of the students in this state passed the test. This saddens me—because you can miss over half of the questions on the test and still “pass”!

I was excited about the new curriculum this year because I thought that science education in this state was finally moving in the right direction. Scores are bound to be lower for a little while as we make a transition to a new curriculum—but let’s make sure that our standard for assessment (i.e. “the test”) truly does what it sets out to do—-test our students’ knowledge of a rigorous curriculum that requires actual thinking. I would love for Georgia students to outperform other students in science!

By TKD

June 6, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

The scores for blacks are deplorable. If we are to improve, we need to place more resources on the at-risk groups (i.e. black, mentally disadvantaged, hispanic). It is amazing to see literally a 30 point difference between certain racial groups!!! We can’t blame the teachers for everything. A lot of this should fall upon the families to motivate their children to succeed in school. I will be interested in how poorly the black schools systems did (i.e. Clayton, City of Atlanta, Dekalb). We as a state will always be as good as the weakest link. The numbers don’t lie…

By Angry

June 6, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

P.S. The best thing schools (and parents) can do is remove all computers, calculators, cell phones, etc. from classrooms. As a child of the 50’s, we had none of those tech gadgets, and we learned to use our BRAINS to figure out how to do math, etc. Now, with the internet, kids can just go online and find answers to everything without having to do any reference/brain work, etc. Kids these days are lazy when it comes to education…and just imagine…they will soon be running our country. What a nightmare in the making!

By Blame Everyone Else

June 6, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

I have read some of the posted comments and everyone here is correct. It is the Teachers fault, it is the School Administrators fault, it is the Parents fault, and it is Society’s fault. We no longer demand excellence, mediocrity is accepted as being excellent. We are afraid to fail the star athlete. We are afraid to “hurt” the self-esteem of a student. WE ARE AFRAID OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

It is so much easier to blame others and strive for excellence or setting the bar higher. Unfortunately Political Correctness has been the demise of Public Education, the fault of society for allowing this to happen. Unruly children, the fault of parents abdicating their responsibilities. Mediocrity being accepted, the fault of school administrations. Teachers doing everything but teaching, fault of teachers unions not standing up to the administrations and parents. All in all we, meaning everyone, have screwed our educational system!

We demand everyone else to handle the situation, yet are unwilling or just don’t care to get involved.

It is time to kick out the unruly students, it is time to kick out the failing teachers, it is time to get rid of bad administrators, it is time to be POLITICALLY INCORRECT.

It is time for schools to be a place of education and NOT baby sitting. It is time for teachers to be allowed to teach without baby-sitting! It is time for administrators to demand respect from all students and to be allowed to discipline unruly students. It is time for parents to be involved and be responsible for their kids. It is time for students to respect all those trying to help them!

By Dan

June 6, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

Tim I don’t have a problem with Harry Potter and I agree with evolution should be taught in science. But projecting those beliefs to be the cause of our school problems is ignorant. I would bet my salary that the children of those parents are above average performers. Not because of their ideaology but because the parents care about their education, the problem is parents who don’t care or believe that it is somone elses responsibility to educate their child.

By A mom

June 6, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

If you can’t be involved in your child’s life, then you shouldn’t be trying to take on the role of parent. Child rearing is a 24/7 job. It takes all of the attention a parent can muster to raise one to maturity successfully. If your child’s schooling is important to you, you will find a way to attend parent meetings, no matter when they are held. I had TWO jobs, a husband and 2 kids. I NEVER missed a parent/teacher meeting. My kids came first, and their education was the most important thing in their and my life. It paid off. My kids are now adults that any parent would be proud to call theirs.

If you can’t make the time to get involved in every aspect of your child’s life, then my opinion is that you shouldn’t be having children.

By Tammy

June 6, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

Blame everybody..look in the mirrow! the teacher holds a conference little Johnny is failing, parent throws a fit. Who better knows you child? The person who spends 8 hours a day w/that child or a parent who spends a few hours each night? And has anybody ever read the questions on the CRCT test? If you had you would know why they can’t pass the test. Don’t be so quick to judge until you get all the facts. Do you think that my daughter just grauated from high school w/honors on her own? I always kept in touch w/her teachers and her grades and if there was a problem we addressed it and it was a joint effort on everybody’s part. And leave the gay thing out of this issue. Don’t use this to voice you opinion on something not even related to the issue at hand.

By C.R.H.

June 6, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Amen to A Mom! I always say the best birth control method is to become a teacher!

By Leia

June 6, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

CH - I can’t believe that there’s still someone that ignorant who believes that teachers work only 190 days, 8 hours a day! I am currently on my lunch break from a staff development workshop! I probably work more hours than you do. Besides being a teacher, I also sponsor 2 clubs at my high school and serve on several committees. If you can’t take a little time off from your job to take care of an issue concerning your own child - don’t complain if and when he falls through the cracks. Just explain to him that you couldn’t make the meetings!

By Tim

June 6, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Dan,

My point is you have MANY parents are dragging down school standards by trying to impose hokey religious beliefs on everyone. These are the same kinds of people who killed those who suggested a heliocentric model of our solar system centuries ago.

By Leia

June 6, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

CH - and one more thing - it’s not my fault that you’re a single parent! Do you know how badly a teacher cringes when we hear, “Oh, but, I’m a single parent…”? We don’t have different expectations, rules, lessons, or privileges for children whose parents are not married!!

By upsetteacher

June 6, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

Yes, yes, fire all of the teachers. That’s the answer. It is so easy for someone that is not in the education field to say this. Love to see this happen. I am a teacher, and I am so tired of hearing this. Most of the students who did fail the CRCT for me (which were few looking at the whole) are the same ones that have failed grades before, special ed, Spanish speaking, or just plain not motivated students. It’s more than just the teachers’ fault. Teachers can only do so much with students that fall into these areas. When these students get into the higher grades, there should be another area to direct them to starting in the middle grades. These struggling students can’t handle it, and it causes behavior problems and waste of class time dealing with these problems.

By Concerned Mother

June 6, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

Georgia’s School system does not seem to be getting any better due to these tests. The drop out rate is higher and everyone one is blaming each other. It is very discouraging that some students are honor roll students, did not pass a part of the test by a couple of points and can be retained. Are they teaching test taking strategies in school? Some students just do not test well. It is idiotic to base a child being retained or not because of a single test and not the overall for the year. The state needs to go to the North and copy their style of education because I see Georgia getting farther and farther behind. Unfortunately, I have talked to some educators, who have taught for years, and they are fed up with the system themselves.

By JRT

June 6, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

I’m getting in late on this topic, but have to love reading jusataparents June 5th comment/slam on the bleak situation in our Georgia schools. Granted, they are not the best by any objective national standard as a whole, but show me any kid at any public school whose parent(s)truly take an active role in their kid’s academic pursuit and I’ll show you a kid that tests favorably with any student regardless of the state they reside. If you want your kid challenged, then drop the fancy car, restaurants and cable and put them in private school like I did mine. We just got her scores on the Iowa test two weeks ago and she scored in 90th percentile nationally across the board. And, she is not even close to the top amongst the other kids in her grade in test scores. Also, the word you are looking for to describe Cobb Co. is backward. I guess that backword substitutes OK in the enlightened schools in CT. So, I guess us backwords hicks in Cobb will try to survive the loss next year of your little geniuses.

By Chad

June 6, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

By A P** off Mom

June 6, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

If all these students failed th test, what does that tell you? The teachers aren’t doing their job. My childs school starting preparing a week before. My son failed the Reading by 5 points, out of 300 8th graders over 150 has to go to summer school . What does that tell you. And why are they saying te minorities ad the highest rate of failures, it shouldn’t be separated. It all boils down to alot of children failed… point blank. I don’t think they should be held back because of this test.

By bill

June 6, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Gay marriage amendment throw out of court — Governor Perdue and most legislators show outrage demanding a $500K special session.

Georgia 50th in education with test scores falling, no problem…give the teachers a $400M pay raise, $100 gift cards and lifetime employment security.

At least parents can sleep easy knowing they have their ‘free’ day care and no homosexual teacher will be able to publicly commit to another.

By teachershubby

June 6, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

Stop with the teacher bashing, there are a lot of fine teachers in the system. My wife has a master’s degree, graduated sixth in her high school class (out of over 400), and graduated from college Magna Cum Laude. She’s a terrific teacher, one of the brightest people I know, but how can you teach a child if there is no support from the parents at home? They are more interested in seeing their child excel at sports, socially, or in other extracurricular activities. All I ever hear from my peers is what jocks their kids are. Plus there is a big anti-achievement mentality in the culture of our youth today with the focus on sports, hip-hop, etc. American Idol contestants garner more votes than US Presidential candidates!! Our heroes are sports and entertainment figures, not doctors or scientists. It’s this culture that pervades America that is dooming our children to failure.

By Me

June 6, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

A P** off Mom - Have you been doing your job? Does your child read everyday? Do you help with his homework? Do you check his homework everyday? Have you been to the conferences with his teacher? Does he get enough sleep every night? Do you make sure he’s had a good breakfast every morning? Is he at school on time every morning? Do you help out at his school? Are you a member of the PTA?

The test should show what you child has learned so far in the year. 5 points is a small percentage for his failure. That means he scored less than 50%. What it all boils down to alot of parents have failed…point blank.

By Concerned Mother

June 6, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

Being an active parent does not guarantee your child will pass the test. I was on the PTA, volunteered for school activities, enrolled my children in tutoring classes, and met on a daily with the teachers and administrators. There are a group of parents (from 2 parent households) who did the same. A lot of the kids failed by less than 6 points. My child missed the math portion by 4 points. He is a honor roll student and received many accolades for the year. When I spoke with his teacher about the test, she had no concern and knew he would pass with flying colors. I still made sure he did the practice test at home and he is being told he will be retained for 4 lousy points. Even though, he excelled during the year. That is total BULLLL…….

By Dsmooth

June 6, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

I don’t usually comment here because you guys use the big fancy words and have such “LOUD” opinions. But today I couldn’t resist. Why is it that whenever there is an issue the first thing people (A Decatur Parent) throws up is the hip hop culture or turning off BET or MTV or VH1. How about parent your child make sure that they know how important school is at an early age. My son watches certain things on MTV or BET, but he passed his CRCT test. My stepdaughter on the other hand, flunked her’s. She failed the 2nd grade at an APS school where she attended before I married her father, she did not pass the CRCT this year in the 3rd grade, I worked with her all year, the school district we are in now falls in Dekalb Cty. They worked hard ALL year on CRCT curriculum, and she still failed it. So, its not the school’s fault, it’s the child… she is not a test taker, her total score was 765 out of 800… I don’t know the breakdown, the school didn’t tell me, but evidently it was below 300 in the reading. But I am sooooo sick and tired of you guys always blaming tv or hip hop. Hip Hop has its problems but education bashing is not one of them.

By James & Ellen

June 6, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this

We learned just how far behind schools in the Atlanta area are when we moved to Orange Park, FL. The students in our youngest sons kindegarden class were begining to read and write .The first half of the year while in a north Atlanta school all he did was learn to play. Perhaps there is a need to begin building skills earlier. Just because a teacher has been around for years dosen’t mean they can teach.

By Tim

June 6, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this

Maybe we need to see “A Day in the Life” of a few of these failing kids. Why is it that when most of the kids pass, and when a whole lot of the kids get great grades, the ones who fail are the teacher’s fault? I can line up a failing child with a failing home life almost 1 for 1. Yet, the failing students never seem to align with supposedly bad teachers. Here is reality check for you. Some of these kids were born dumb. The rest of the failures happen because of dumb parents. The teachers follow an AKS, and kids with a good support structure at home do great. Others are doomed to be just like Mom and Dad.

By Angry Parent

June 6, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

This is a very sad situation. From a parent who is involved with my children and others who don’t seem to have the time, here are my thoughts. I challenge all parents to go visit their childs school, sit in the class room and walk the halls and first understand the environment our children our faced with each day (drugs, violence, sex,) and children that just don’t care. Our children are being exposed to many things at a very young age.

Being a teacher is a occupation that is a true calling. We NEED,NEED,NEED, more MALE TEACHERS to help control our young boys who are being unfairly sterotyped. It seems to be easier for the system to just stamp them with ADHD and move on instead of understanding that our kids, regardless of race need to be taught differently because of what our society is teaching them(BET, MTV, myspace.com, porn,freedom at a young age, cell phones, computers, IPODs and bad news everyday) and on and on… It’s even very challenging for all of the good parents and teachers out there to get through all the issues our children face each day. In my opinion, there’s only one way, GOD. It needs to be a priority in the home and it needs to be taught in school. Keep our Teachers in Prayer!!! They need it as well as a BIG FAT RAISE and the RESOURCES to teach.

By Be 4 real parents

June 6, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

You all are blaming the wrong person, teachers are not the blame here. It starts at home, if you parent teach your children at home they wouldn’t have failed the CRCT. My son has been on the honor role since the third grade and I make sure he does his homework and I go over his work and if I don’t know something, LOOK IT UP ON THE INTERNET……stop giving your children material things and videos, tv watching and give them a book to read and give them math extra math problems to make sure they are on task. I thank all of Bryant Elementary teachers in Cobb for all their hard work.

By Second coming of Anna

June 6, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

Concerned Mother - I am sympathetic with your plight as well as the plight of P**Off mom. My unsolicited advice, take this setback, which is probably huge in the eyes of your child/student and spin it positively. Much better for them to have this happen now, it could serve as a constant reminder when they are older and the tests matter more. 4 points, 6 points, one more hour of study may have done it. If your kid feels that this test was unfair (because you think it is) then they might think every test is unfair. If you use this the right way, your children can become good test takers. A failure, in the early years, can produce some of the best academics (Einstein), athletes (Michael Jordan cut from his 10th grade basketball team), leaders (Lincoln and Washington), and business people (don’t forget Bernie Marcus and Arthur Blank were fired from Handy Dan before they started Home Depot.) Be careful with this - if you handle it wrong, you could cause your kids to grow up blaming everyone and never feeling like they can overcome. As Tavis Smiley would say, “marinate on that for a while.”

By Peaches

June 6, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

Home schooling is here to stay. At first the professionals said it would not work. Johnny would not learn and would be socially maladjusted. Now the results are comming in. Johnny is doing great, much better than his public school peers. He is well adjusted. Colleges love him. Now the professionals say that it won’t work for everyone. Maybe not, but the home schoolers are growing and succeding in massively increasing numbers.It will work for a lot more kids and their families. All while the professional’s results get worse and worse as the taxpayers pay more and more. Guess where this will end?

By Manny

June 6, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

Peaches - hopefully it will end with homeschooled Johnny being taught by parents who know how to spell “coming” and “succeeding”!

By A teacher

June 6, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

As I read some of the messages written on the comment board, my heart breaks. I am a middle school teacher who has done her best to work with all of my students to not only improve test scores, but to prepare them for life. I work a 60 hour week and get paid only for 40. I come early and stay late to help students who need help. I get 20 minutes for lunch WITH supervising my students, and don’t really have a break to speak of all day long. Either I am in a meeting planning my next lesson, or meeting with a parent. I can’t work harder than I am. And the parents of my students will agree to that!

I understand that some people are upset about not receiving CRCT scores until the last minute. I am, too! As of our last working day, the scores had not been mailed to us. So to the response to the parent who was complaining about last minute notification… I’m right there with you! But that’s not the real issue with the CRCT.

We review and review content information for the CRCT throughout the year. Most of my students know the content concepts. However, the practice questions that they give us reflect with almost every comment a child makes to me after taking the test… “I didn’t understand what the question was asking.” It’s the wording of the questions that make it so hard, which leads me think… are we testing if they know the concept or if they can figure out what the question is asking. This might be why so many black and English as a Second Language students fail the test. The questions are culturally biased.

Also, looking at WHO failed the CRCT… It’s the very same students who don’t turn in homework, have over 10 days of absences, we can’t get parents in for a conference, AND when we do the parents are unsupportive. I actually have had a parent refuse to let her son do any homework because it’s “family time.” If parents are not going to be at home to encourage kids to do homework and study, then there’s nothing I can do. I can’t go home with every student to make sure they have the reinforcement that they need. And some students are so unmotivated that it doesn’t matter what I do or how I present the material, they refuse to engage. You can’t force a horse to drink water!

And why do scores drop among middle school students? You don’t have one if you have to ask! All they think about is the opposite sex, who is dating who, etc. Hormones have kicked in, their brain’s not growing when their body is, and we’re asking them to learn?

Why are 6th grade Science and Social Studies scores low? Because an average elementary school teaches 1 hour of EITHER science OR Social Studies a day, if that because there’s this big focus of “get the reading and math scores up or else! The first time students are really introduced to these concepts in depth is 6th grade. THAT is something WE CAN change.

Also, why are we expecting special education students to perform at the same level as regular students? That’s like saying you want a man who has no legs to jump. They can do it, but it’s hard and not as high. The whole point of being labeled Special Education is that there is something medically different that KEEPS them from being able to perform at a normal level. So why do they get a normal student’s test then punished when they don’t perform as a normal student?

What are we REALLY testing? Are our tests REALLY seeing the progress that these students are making or just comparing them to someone more successful? I’d rather praise a student who has improved their reading level by 2 grades in one year than to punish them because they are still a grade level behind. And to punish teachers because of unmotivated students and parents… hhuumm… maybe THAT’s why so many good teachers leave and find another profession where their time and effort is valued.

By erica

June 6, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

Peaches - My neighbor is a GA Tech admissions counselor. Her husband was a professor at UVa for years. The former always flags homeschool apps for further review because Tech has had problems with homeschool kids not adjusting to college life. The latter had one homeschool kid in his class who dropped out after a semester and another who committed suicide in his freshman year.

This doesn’t represent all homeschoolers, but homeschooling is not the panacea you think it is. One of my daughter’s best friends (a homeschooler) just took the Iowa test (required in 3d and 5th). She asked to compare scores with my kid’s. My (public school) kid’s composite was 15 points higher than her kid’s. In the math battery, my kid was a good 20 points higher.

Again - standardized tests don’t mean everything - but it makes me crazy when the homeschool crowd starts doing the superiority dance. Homeschooling is fine if done properly, but public school is also fine if done properly.

I usually use homeschooling to scare my kids into applying themselves. They look at me with terror if I even bring it up! ;)

By di

June 6, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

This is in reponse to Mike. Please come and teach in my class for one day. Have you been told to, “go to hell” by a 12 year old? Fire me? Please do. My unemply. check will be more than I take home once a month. That’s right. Once a month. We are doing the best we can. Do you help your child with homework? Do you attend PTA meetings often? Is your child well mannered? If you answered yes, then your child may be ready to learn. The truth is many PARENTS do not support their children in school. The teacher can not raise the child. They can only educate the child. Teachers want the best for their students. When was the last time you went to your local school and served for the day? (Telling the students about your career.) Never, just like I thought. You can have my job any day of the week. Let me know when. You do not have a clue what I deal with each day. My students will send you home in tears. You can not handle the demands of a middle school. Please come on and take my job or better yet, show me how to do it better. I have taught in APS and Dekalb. (the south end of Dekalb not the north).

For the person that posted that their employer does not hire metro studnets: that is fine. It will be the metro students that break into your home because they are jobless. A student will either put a bullet in your head when they are a criminal or take one out of your head when they are a doctor. Which one has your employer created?

By Competitive

June 6, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

I think schools need to make several changes to overcome the negative effects of poor parenting, pop culture, etc. Of course, these suggestions would require the full support of school administrators and school boards (fantasy land, I realize).

First, let’s introduce honesty in schools. Start in the classroom. No late work should be accepted. No retaking of tests or redoing assignments. No 15 minute reviews immediately before taking the test. No curving grades on individual assignments, tests, or grading period averages. This way, kids will be asked to take some responsibility for learning the material on time instead of falling four or five grade levels behind. Parents will know that their kid really is not performing on grade level. Teachers won’t have to feel bad that they have too many kids failing because the responsibility forlearning is the child’s. I often tell my students that my job is to teach them the appropriate material, and their job is to learn that material. Honesty needs to start in Kindergarten; I think a kid is never too young to learn the need for responsibilty.

Second, let’s look at promotion. I think promotion standards should be changed starting in fourth grade. In grades 4-8, kids should have to earn a C or better each semester in every class (including Connections). Also, every academic class should have a state-standardized “final exam” (CRCT or whatever). The student must also pass the final exam in every class to earn promotion. I don’t want the grades to be a joke or the tests. I saw plenty of my students fail all their classes every nine weeks but pass their Gateways and CRCTs and earn promotion this year (one of the beauties of working in Gwinnett). I want difficult classes with difficult “final exams.” You have to pass all subjects with grades and test scores to pass, and there is no summer school. If you don’t pass, you retake the are held back and get another chance the next school year.

Third, let’s get real about school discipline. Students should be dressed in a uniform. If they come to school in some other clothing, they go home immediately. Students should not be allowed to receive 15 or more discipline referrals in one school year. I know these kids can behave when the expectation is set and supported.

I may be the only person who thinks its ridiculous how high the passing rate is for some of these grades/subjects. We are lying to these kids when we tell them they are ready for the next grade and they are not. Every time they are promoted without meeting the MINIMAL standard set by the CRCT and other indicators, we hurt the kid, their classmates, the parents, and their teachers. I think my plan would address some of that.

By Jeff

June 6, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

OK, I realize what I’m about to say is SOMEWHAT impractical for South GA (And even extreme North GA) parents, but here goes anyway:

Don’t just look online for extra resources. Check out the local Barnes and Noble, Borders, or whatever bookstore chain you have somewhat near you. (I mention BN and Borders only because those are the two I frequent, so I know more about their selections!) Por ejemplo: I was just at BN on Barrett Parkway. Picked up a couple of fiction titles, but as always wound up looking through their American History, Education, and Mathematics sections (those who know me here could pobably guess that I frequent those sections!!) While I didn;t find what I was looking for in the American History section (does anyone know where to find ANY books on the War of 1812???), I found SEVERAL that could be of use in the Mathematics section, including the complete Euclid text (everything currently taught in Geometry at any level has everything to do with this text) for $25. They also had the “Demystified” series, which takes certain mathematical disciplines (including Algebra and Geometry) and breaks them down so anyone can learn them, similar to the ‘_ for Dummies” series. I saw SEVERAL other books that most of y’all should be able to read and figure out most of the math your child will be exposed to at any level of GA’s curriculum. In the Education section, there were several books about “What your _ grader needs to know”. I’ve never read any of those, but I assume them to be decent.

Heck, go to your local library! Again, using a fiction example: I’ve already met someone that I’m talking to down where I’m moving to in South Ga. She is also an avid reader, and I told her about Nicholas Sparks. She managed to pick up 3 of his books yesterday at the local library, including one that just recently came out in paperback. (I know, because I myself just recently bought and read it!) I’m sure that they would have titles for you and your child’s further education if only you would look!!! With most libraries I know, if you know a title and they don’t have it, they have ways of finding a library that does and getting it for you…

As has been said: If education is a priority for you as a parent, we teachers will know because ti will be obvious in your child in our classroom.

BTW: Particularly in history, don’t just settle for what GA says your child needs to know. The reason I’m so interested in finding a book about 1812 is that what most people don’t realize - and I never learned in school (including university) is that we very nearly ceased to be a nation at that war. The white house was not always white, and it became painted white due to 1812. The Star Spangled Banner was written at the climactic battle of the war, the Battle for Baltimore. NONE of this will your child learn in even AP US History!!!

Enough ranting… though if anyone wants to know about the Battle for Baltimore and the Star Spangled Banner, let me know. I’ll be glad to inform. (I personally try to go over the story in my head on every patriotic holiday!!)

By Mad in College Park

June 6, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this

To P*ssed off mama: You should have been reviewing for the test with your child from day one. You knew there would be a test from the State. The school did not have your child, you did. The buck stops with you. Did you purchase study materials for your child during the summer months? What have you done? Your writing skills are poor. Maybe, education is not on your mind as well as your child’s.

By Jeff

June 6, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

Competitve for State School Superintendent!!

Seriously, while I and other teachers can probably tell you what would ACTUALLY happen with those proposals, we would also support you at LEAST 99.999%!!

By HFW

June 6, 2006 06:30 PM | Link to this

To Competitive:

You are absolutely right. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

By Jeff

June 6, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

Something I’m curious about, maybe it would be better put at Momania:

How many of you parents are avid readers? I’m talking about picking up a book and reading it for anything other than the current news or work.

How many teachers are avid readers?

Let’s put it this way in regard to me: I read somewhere that Steven King read 60 books last year. So at the beginning of the year, I set myself a goal of 80 books read this year, with a 300 page minimum on each. I’m only roughly a quarter of the way there, so I’m more than likely not going to hit it, but I knew it was a very high number when I set it. But how many of you parents can honestly say you’ve read anywhere NEAR 15,000 pages for pleasure this year?

BTW: Don’t even give me the excuses of “but I have a job” or “I have kids” or any of the other crap. I was a FIRST SEMESTER TEACHER since January, and I’ve STILL managed it. Heck, get the kids involved with it! Have an hour or two of family time where you do nothing but read, and then discuss your books with each other! It’ll have the added bonus of you growing together as a family, even if you have wildly different tastes!

Like I said… just something I was curious about…

By Tonya

June 6, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this

I think a lot of these responses are way off base. Our children are not stupid, dumb, or ignorant, for that matter. Georgians and Southerners are not stupid, dumb, or ignorant, either. My daughter is a really good kid who has not gotten below A’s and B’s on any report card ever. However, she failed the math portion of the CRCT (by 2 points, which is 2 points too many). So she has to attend the classes for 3 weeks, which from what I hear, the main goal is to teach them how to take the CRCT. They are only going over what is needed; I guess so they can get it done in the 3 week period. Take note, there is not a fault here. Please think twice about calling someone stupid or dumb. It shows more about you than you probably want to share with the world, on this WORLD WIDE WEB!

By Tonya

June 6, 2006 07:10 PM | Link to this

And furthermore, after speaking to my daughter’s guidance counselor, she told me that there is no way that anyone at the school would recommend my daughter be held back. I can’t speak for every child and every situation, but I can speak for mine. She is a good student and a good daughter. She not only has done well throughout school, but she is a well mannered, polite, and thoughtful child.

A lot of people are also prejudging parents here, too. I do spend time with my children and I do let them know how important and serious an education is to their future. My husband and I sacrifice quite a few luxuries in order for me to be at home with my children 5 days of the week. I am here when they wake up, I take them to and from school, and I am here with them during homework time….not to mention the routine goings-on of a household. We do attend school functions, and sometimes we even have to split up in order to be there for both children.

We were crushed to find out that her future would be impacted by one score. I was definitely reassured though, knowing that the teachers, principle, and guidance counselor can see beyond that one grade. Either way, she will not repeat the 8th grade because she has that support system of people in the school who know her personally, her on-going grade history, and her determination.

By Jeff

June 6, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

Tonya,

That very “support system” is the EXACT problem with education today…

We need to be reminded of Escalante constantly:

“There will be NO FREE RIDES. NO EXCUSES. You will work harder here than you have ever worked before.

By Leia

June 6, 2006 07:35 PM | Link to this

Tonya - so all things being equal, another child who perhaps was shy and never spoke to the teachers at the school WOULD have been held back! Therein lies the problem. And FYI - if my child would’ve failed the math CRCT by only 1 point - I would wig out! That test is SO ridiculously easy, it’s not even funny!

By SET

June 6, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this

A lot of traffic above coming from parents of kids with problems.

Common thread is that they seem to believe that their child failed the test because someone didn’t give the child something (teaching, perhaps?).

I doubt that is what is really happening here, at least on the broad scale.

Understand that all these state exit exams and placement and screening tests are actually IQ tests - or proxys for IQ tests.

There is a reason why your little precious can’t hack a test when others sitting around him or her can. Especially when the other kids had the same teachers and the same classrooms.

There was a time when all public schools administered IQ tests early and often and posted the results to the parents. So everybody knew or had opportunity to know what was really going on in the child’s mind.

Then Federal Court rulings (In the late 1960’s?) banned IQ testing in the public schools for blacks. Most schools discontinued all the IQ testing rather than treat the races differently. The students were then treated as if they were fungible goods. What followed is the madness we see now in our country’s school districts. The parents of younger children now have never lived during the days when your school file carried your IQ score.

Before wearing everybody out with all the breast beating it would help to get the failing children tested to see what their brain processing speed - or whatever you want to call IQ - is coming in at.

So when you are tempted to attack the teacher or the child you at least know what is going on.

Another unpleasant (really unpleasant) fact we all are living with: Regression to the norm. Just as the children of two very tall people tend to regress to the hieght normal for their ethnic, children of Black Doctors and Lawyers (who have higher than average IQ for their ethnic) tend to regress to the norm for their ethnic. An IQ of 85.

So we have easily found national stats that the kids of blacks making $100K a year as a group are performing worse than kids of whites making $20,000 a year. Don’t blame me study the gap yourselves, I didn’t create this mess.

Is it right to beat up on the black kid or his teacher when he or she doesn’t get a 90% percentile SAT after the parents did? Maybe one of the siblings in that family grouping will, but the average will regress to the norm.

Now mix in the miracle of diversity in a large port city and have your kids in with Ethiopians, Mexicans, Vietnamese a few Irish, and watch the pot boil.

I threw in the African for a point. Although their national IQ average is lower than the US blacks, the immigrant average is higher due to selection. There is a large Ethiopian contingent in CA now and they make the local blacks into roadkill. Don’t you see that the immigrants who claw their way into the US are generally much more competitive than an IQ of 85? Look at what the Jewish Immigrants of the early 20th century (Avg IQ 115+) did to the previously-dominate white ethnic which has an Avg IQ of 100. Can we say “Wall Street?”

Until you really know what the objective test results are for your kid, stop blaming the teachers for your bad news. Find your bright children (who may be trying to hide themselves) and put every resource into them.

And you don’t have to be smart to be rich - although it does help hang on to the money. You can marry smart when you want smart. You can have a lot of fun without being a physicist.

Everyone needs to make the very most of whatever they were born with (and marry the rest).

I do not blame teachers for the gap or these testing problems. They are the logical result of the schools and the parents putting on blinders, and just thinking every kid can handle abstract reasoning just because they have a reflection in the mirror. Many kids need to stay into concrete thinking and learn to make it in life anyway.

If anybody seriously wants these ethnic gap numbers to change that will take more time than our remaining life expectancies. The problem is that with existing government policies - the gap is getting worse not better.

And we haven’t even started on interracial mating and what’s happing in those places that are trying to hang onto affirmative action. Is it “fair” that essentially all your black seats start being taken by folks who look Egyptian (or like Mirah Carey?). If you want to see people find their roots, set aside Law School and Med School seats…

Lay off the teachers and find a way to fix things that supports the teachers.

Brave New World!

By Wayne Reeves, Jr.

June 6, 2006 08:54 PM | Link to this

Here is the problem and solution.

Not every kid can be a doctor or lawyer as children today are told.

Focus money and resources on the best and the brightest. Encourage lower performing and the least capable kids to go into vocational and trade careers. There is nothing wrong with being a mechanic, elevator repair man or even a trash disposal person as long as you take pride in it and put forth your best effort.

A teacher faces criticism and career roadblocks when they have high failure. So the trend has been to lower standards so more can pass, but less is being learned. It’s called dumbing down the system.

Truly, education today is a microcosm of a much bigger picture.

By CH

June 7, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this

To Leia, just to let you know I am involed with my kids I coach when no other parent wants too, I’ve coached when my kids do not even play on the team and that is three nights a week and oh add that I TEACH on Weds. nights and it’s all done for FREE no salary. And for the signle parents thing damn those spouses that have died. Just don’t assume that a single parent is that by choice. And if you worked more hours than I do more power to you. because I have worked two jobs to make it in this world and still made time for my kids. but the scools can still have some leeway in helping more parents support there kids. How come high school football is on a Friday night so all the parents have a chance to see. Why are not the other High school sports the same way so we can see them also. Now pull your head out and see where we are coming from.

By Leia

June 7, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this

CH - I don’t know what it is that you teach, but, I pray that it doesn’t involve grammar or spelling. As for the “single parent” thing - widowed spouses do not refer to themselves as single parents! Football is on Friday nights when it is more accessible to most of the people because football is the biggest money-maker for any high school - duh! Other sports don’t pull in the revenue that football does, so they will get less consideration as far as times and the day of the week they are played. I don’t need to pull my head from anywhere, darling - I am a parent too! I manage to do my job(s); attend all of the meeting for my middle school twins; sponsor clubs; and attend my childrens’ softball games. No, I’m not superwoman - just a dedicated parent. I chose to have my children which means I also chose to design my life to best provide for these children.

Don’t depend on the world to help you raise your children. They are YOUR responsibility.

By CH

June 7, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

I also try to attend all meetings. Even when they put my kids in IEP and speech. I don’t ask for a hand out but if they are putting my kids in these programs I can’t always take off from work. I only get so many days off per year. And that includes when my kids get sick and go to the orthodontist and any other appointment that comes up. And it is bad when a teacher talks to another teacher while your kid is in the special class and tells them that not all the kids will pass. And when you go to the school board office and find out what’s going on you get the run around. So I don’t blame all teachers I know how had it is to be with these kids. I’m just saying the schools need to be a little more flexiable so that more parents can attend plays, sporting events and PTA meetings and conferences. Just think we all work too and not every business likes to let you go home earlty to do these things. And trust me I wouldn’t want the world to raise my kids.

By Leia

June 7, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this

CH - I TOTALLY understand what you’re talking about! Both of my daughters were in speech until the 4th grade, so I had to attend many IEP meetings in my day. My question is - what exactly do you want the teachers to do for you? My day is from 7:00 - 3:00. Should I stay until 6 or 7 pm because it’s convenient for you? Multiply your request by the 125 students I teach. I would NEVER be at home! I’m sorry, but, my husband and my girls are my first priority. As I stated earlier - I’m a parent too and my own children come before yours every time.

By Jeff

June 7, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

Leia,

At my old school I was LITERALLY in the building from 6:30am - 7pm or later most days. Guess how many parents I actually saw? Hint: to the best of my recollection, its the same number that in baseball means you’ve struck out…

By Leia

June 7, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

Jeff - that’s exactly my point. I will never forget a “single mother” whining to me that it was impossible for her to meet with me until 6:00 pm. Guess what? I was there until 6:30 - and she didn’t even call to let me know that she wasn’t coming. Never again.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

June 7, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Widows, Divorced and Never Married people - most often call themselves Single Mothers.

Also, women who have never married are not always single moms, by choice. There are two people involved in dividing up the family. The only people being stereotyped are women.

I’m sure you have had married people, who just didn’t show up for various reasons. I’m sure you have cases where you never saw the father, but the parents were married. I know this for a fact, because I am at my daughters school frequently. 99% of the people at school are women(registration, conferences, programs, PTA involvement, disciplinary). Even when there is an afterschool program, you see about 15 - 30% fathers.

As a single (Never Married Mom) - I remember looking around at my daughters 5th grade graducation and last day of school, wondering where were all the FATHERS. My school is made up of mostly middle income married white folks, I was expecting a big father turnout. I definitely see more of them for sporting events.

By CH

June 7, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

To all I am the father who attends the majority of the meetings and conferences because my wife works at a job that doesn’t like to really give a half day off here and there. So I’m the one who uses all the time for these things and sick days and Drs appointments. So my question is on teacher conference days why can’t the day start a little later so you can meet with some of the hard working parents. I had it opposite, the teacher was supposed to meet me in the morning her choice and she didn’t show up but actually called in sick. So some things do happen nothing I can do but suck it up and go to work late. So their are some teachers who do the same thing. Like I said not all teachers are bad. I’ve been to alot of systems in this state because I work for Channel One and I can tell you the kids aren’t a joy either. But if the schools want parents to be more invovled they have to meet them halfway. I know it’s not a perfect situation but it’s a start. We are all in this together and I know we have to try and find a happy medium. If I stepped on toes I’m sorry but like you all say it’s not a perfect world and who knows what will fix it. But it will take both sides to get things straight.

By Leia

June 7, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Amazed, CH et. al. - Whatever classification you call yourself - my point is that your marital, lack of marital, or choice of marital situation has absolutely nothing to do with the rules or expectations we have for your children!

As for the fathers whom you don’t see - I can only speak for my own husband. He makes it his business to attend anything my girls are involved in when he can. Quite frankly - his salary is about 3 times mine, (and I’m not a new teacher!), so it is more important (at times) for him to be at work and not attend a parent conference - especially when our kids are doing well.

While you were looking around for other fathers on graduation day - where was your daughter’s father on graduation day?

By Manny

June 7, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

CH - I do understand your frustration, but, there are some “behind the scenes” operations that you do not know about. First of all - on the days that you’d like to start a little later, does that mean that the kids are supposed to come to school a little later? If so, how do you expect the bus schedules to work? The same drivers work for the elementary and the high school routes! So, by pushing the day back - that forces the high school kids to come late, and they don’t even have scheduled parent/teacher conference days built into their schedules.

How about this - you get the copy of the school calendar that your kids bring home on the first day of school, or better yet, print it out from the county website - and plan right now to take a couple of hours off from your job on that day.

I know that you think it was a very simple request, but, you have no idea how unfeasible it is!

By CH

June 7, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

To all I am the father who attends the majority of the meetings and conferences because my wife works at a job that doesn’t like to really give a half day off here and there. So I’m the one who uses all the time for these things and sick days and Drs appointments. So my question is on teacher conference days why can’t the day start a little later so you can meet with some of the hard working parents. I had it opposite, the teacher was supposed to meet me in the morning her choice and she didn’t show up but actually called in sick. So some things do happen nothing I can do but suck it up and go to work late. So their are some teachers who do the same thing. Like I said not all teachers are bad. I’ve been to alot of systems in this state because I work for Channel One and I can tell you the kids aren’t a joy either. But if the schools want parents to be more invovled they have to meet them halfway. I know it’s not a perfect situation but it’s a start. We are all in this together and I know we have to try and find a happy medium. If I stepped on toes I’m sorry but like you all say it’s not a perfect world and who knows what will fix it. But it will take both sides to get things straight.

By CH

June 7, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Manny, I don’t know what the hell you are talking about but when my kids conferences are the students are not in school so why couldn’t the teachers start a little later.And the so called teacher work days it’s amazing how my neighbor who is a teacher is home at 11:00am on those days. I know this becasue my kids are at home and play with her kids. And in some counties the high school kids are the earlier routes anyway. I’m sorry I didn’t have the money to go get a college degree after high school, I’m sorry I spent 6 years in the military before Reagan decided their were too many in the service and thus starting cutting those jobs. And if I knew then what I know now I believe I would’ve went to college and yes I would be a teacher. I’m sorry you teachers feel the way you do. Like I told you all I’m not the bad parent who doesn’t attend meetings and other functions but if the kids aren’t in school for conferences I can’t see why you can’t start late to meet a few parents. Thus working a 8 hour day. So it might make my day longer but I can live with that. Remeber you are providing a service and yes people expect more for that service but I also know you get what you pay for and in some instances it’s not enough. And if you do work an eight hour day I’m ASSUMING that if you start at 8:00am you get an hour of lunch then your day should end at 5:00pm right. Because that’s how the rest of the wroking class works.

By CH

June 7, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Manny, I don’t know what the hell you are talking about but when my kids conferences are the students are not in school so why couldn’t the teachers start a little later.And the so called teacher work days it’s amazing how my neighbor who is a teacher is home at 11:00am on those days. I know this becasue my kids are at home and play with her kids. And in some counties the high school kids are the earlier routes anyway. I’m sorry I didn’t have the money to go get a college degree after high school, I’m sorry I spent 6 years in the military before Reagan decided their were too many in the service and thus starting cutting those jobs. And if I knew then what I know now I believe I would’ve went to college and yes I would be a teacher. I’m sorry you teachers feel the way you do. Like I told you all I’m not the bad parent who doesn’t attend meetings and other functions but if the kids aren’t in school for conferences I can’t see why you can’t start late to meet a few parents. Thus working a 8 hour day. So it might make my day longer but I can live with that. Remeber you are providing a service and yes people expect more for that service but I also know you get what you pay for and in some instances it’s not enough. And if you do work an eight hour day I’m ASSUMING that if you start at 8:00am you get an hour of lunch then your day should end at 5:00pm right. Because that’s how the rest of the wroking class works.

By Jeff

June 7, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

CH,

Ummm…. How to begin….

We do work 8 hr days (officially). However, we do NOT get a lunch break. Even during the kids’ lunch break we are working - granted, while eating, but we are STILL working!!

And if I had worked strictly 8 hr days this past semester, I would have never had to be in 6th period! (Hey… why didn’t I think of that sooner?! Oh yeah! That’s right! Had I done that I would be FIRED by now!)

CH, the bottom line is that we are considered “professionals” (ie doctors, lawyers, etc) but get paid LESS than what “working class” people make!!

By CH

June 7, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

Jeff, amazing you must be a math teacher becasue my kid is only in school for almost 7 hrs. And I know you all get time away from kids any where from 30min to an hour because like I’ve said before I’ve been in many schools working on Channel One TVs in the classroom or running cable in the classroom and I can only get in there when ther are no kids. So once again I know you are there more than 8 hours but you don’t have kids that long and if you do then you are working for the wrong school sytem. Oh yes officially is you clock in at 8:00am and then you all wait in or around the office and clock out at 4:00pm I know I’ve seen many teachers do that. Because I’m in the office waiting to see the principal.

By CH

June 7, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

Jeff, it’s amazing how my kids only go to school for 7 hours you must be a math teacher. I know how it work. I work for Channel One News and have to go into classrooms to fix TVs and to run cable and I can’t get in there if there are kids in there so I wait until the so called planning period oh no kids, or lunch and you only deal with the kids if you are on lunch duty and the last thing is that you might get there at 8:00am and then you most of you are waiting at the office till 4:00pm to leave. I know because I’ve been in the office waiting on the principal. So you are right you are there 8 hours and maybe 6 of them you are teaching.

By CH

June 7, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

Jeff, it’s amazing how my kids only go to school for 7 hours you must be a math teacher. I know how it work. I work for Channel One News and have to go into classrooms to fix TVs and to run cable and I can’t get in there if there are kids in there so I wait until the so called planning period oh no kids, or lunch and you only deal with the kids if you are on lunch duty and the last thing is that you might get there at 8:00am and then you most of you are waiting at the office till 4:00pm to leave. I know because I’ve been in the office waiting on the principal. So you are right you are there 8 hours and maybe 6 of them you are teaching.

By Leia

June 7, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

CH - stick to laying cable, or whatever it is that you do, because you have NO CLUE about the teaching profession! I wish I could work an 8 hour day and call it quits! Even at home, I’m grading papers, chatting with students online about homework problems, planning for the next day, etc. And for your information - I get 27 minutes for lunch - and that includes travel time to and from the cafeteria. So, before you educate me about my job, get your facts straight!

I don’t know what county you live in, but, based on what you’re saying - I can guess! I assure you that my workday does not consist of waiting in the office to clock out! We don’t clock out - we just leave! And, again - yes, I’m a teacher, but, I’m no more at your beck and call than your doctor. Do you tell the orthodontist to work his schedule around the fact that you can’t leave work early? I don’t think so. Don’t expect me to either!

In a way I’m glad that you didn’t go to college and become a teacher - you’re the type to give the rest of us a bad name.

By Jeff

June 7, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

The school day at my old school was officially 8am -4pm. Kids are in scheduled classes from 8:30 - 3:30, but teachers are to be in the building from 8-4.

Trust me… if ALL a teacher does is stand in front of kids, they wouldn’t LEARN anything! We deliver lessons, give tests/ quizzes, and a host of other non-“teaching” duties. ALL OF THESE TAKE TIME.

CH, if teachers are so lazy, why am I actively planning for next year ALREADY?????

By C.R.H.

June 7, 2006 06:49 PM | Link to this

Teachers get an hour for lunch? Where is this at? I ate lunch fewer than 30 times last year. Many days I had to decide between lunch & going to the bathroom. I didn’t get time to do both because I had to wheel my “classroom” from one location to another & get that area ready for my class. I didn’t even get the 27 minutes that someone else here got. Yeah CH, I guess you really know what the hell you are talking about huh? And the time when we aren’t directly supervising students is spent calling parents, grading papers & all the other BS you also know diddly squat about. So glad I’m done with that crap!!!

By Cindy

June 7, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this

This has nothing to do with the teachers and firing them during a massive teacher shortage is just plain naive. Who decides curriculum? Who sets test score standards? Who makes all the rules? That would be your government as a whole. Not just the President (who naturally gets the blame for everything even when it has nothing to do with him), but I’m talking about the local Board of Education, the Superintendent, the Principal and so on. It does have a lot to do with parents, but even I can’t help my daughter with her math homework. There needs to be a much better tutoring program, there needs to be a change in curriculum, there needs to be an alternative to testing. We all learn different ways and until this is addressed, they will never excel. If our children’s learning needs are not acknowledged, then there will never be an answer. Learning choice is the only way and unfortunately it’s right there in the face, but government officials refuse to see it. They need to wake up.

By CH

June 8, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this

Oh enjoy the summer off. Just think no more 8 hour days. Until the end of July or beginning of Aug. Oh then it’s just a couple hour days until school starts. And you all have inspired me to go back to school and get my degree. I should be teaching in about two years. Oh I already have college credits so it will not take me long.

By Jeff

June 8, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

CH,

Go right ahead. I’ll even make a prediction:

One of two things will hapeen within your first month of being a teacher: Your attitude towards teaching will change COMPLETELY…

OR…

You’ll leave before the first month is over.

I’m personally betting on the latter, but I am hedging with the former.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

June 8, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

The teaching profession is not the only occupation, where work follows you home. I work more than 40 hours a week and 8 hours a day, in my occupation. I’m not an hourly employee, so I don’t get paid. I also travel frequently and I don’t get paid extra for being on the road. If someone needs something and they call me at home, I get it because I know they need it. The corporate world does not shut down, it’s a 24/7 day environment. You must keep the customer happy.

So, enough of the you don’t know what teachers go through crap. We all have occupational hazards.

By Me

June 8, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

CH, if you are attend school meetings for your family, you should know that the teachers have to be in their classrooms by 7:20 am for elementary schools. The have maybe 10-15 mins. for lunch and forget about going to the bathroom during the day. The teachers usually stay until 4:30-5:00 pm. By my count that’s already 9 hours plus for any given day. That doesn’t include the paper work they have for “homework”. For summer break they have almost 7 weeks off. They have to be back for pre-planning a week before the students and post-planning they stay a week after school is out for summer.

I really don’t think you could hack it as a teacher, but in some odd case you do, please let us know what school you will be teaching. I would love to see how you handle the say to day rigors of such a simple job. Plus, I sure do not want you any where near my children.

By CH

June 8, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

Well I’ve coached sports for about 17 years and have teached at church for a year. And yes I do plan for that class. So I’ve been around diffenrent aged kids. Younger ones mind a little better than the ones in middle school they have the smart mouths. I know that because the class I teach is 6th grade. And you never know I might be your co-worker one day. And if you can’t go to the bathroom during the day then you do not use your time wisely. And Amazed I spent 6 years in the military and that is 24/7 so don’t go there. I’ve been awaken in the wee hours to grab my bag and get ready to go to who knows where. I’ve spents months away from my family so they and others can enjoy the freedom we have today. Oh I didn’t get any overtime pay for that either.

By Leia

June 8, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

CH - so, you’ve “teached” at church, huh?

Now, we see why your kid failed part of the CRCT!

By Laf

June 8, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

By Leia

June 8, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Laf - CH may indeed be a good person, but, he is also the one who blames teachers because his child failed the CRCT! Maybe he should have “teached” his child better!

By Manny

June 8, 2006 06:49 PM | Link to this

CH - I doubt very seriously that you will ever be MY co-worker one day - you would have to pass the Praxis first and you might be asked, “What is the past tense of teach?”

I suggest that you try to get into a private school. They don’t require that their teachers are certified.

By CH

June 9, 2006 08:33 AM | Link to this

Oh please forgive me on a mistake. It’s taught okay and I did that without looking it up. And by the way I never blamed anyone for my kid failing the CRCT test in a matter of fact they both did really well. I had suggested about differnet hours of the day or night to help other parents meet with teachers so they can help their kids. I did go to a private school for 12 years and I did pay my own way. I had a paper route as a 10 year old kid and that helped me pay for school. And if private school is so bad and their teachers are not require to take any test for qualification then why do they perform better than public schools. Amen

By Hard Working Educator

June 9, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this

This comment is for the obviously uneducated person who wrote the article “By C.R.H.” People are so quick to blame the educators for low test scores…well it’s not always the teacher’s fault. Uncooperative parents are generally the route of the problem! They expect the teachers to raise their children! If parents would monitor their child’s grades and involvement instead of sending them to school with the attitude that it’s solely the teacher’s responsiblity to make them learn, then we would definitely see an increase in test scores. Most parents view teachers as “babysitters” and that’s the problem. We didn’t choose education for the pay….believe me….It’s not that great for what we go through! We chose it because we enjoy making a DIFFERENCE in childrens’ lives. People like you are the reason kids today are struggling. You want to blame everyone but YOURSELF! I suggest you step into the classroom….I doubt you would last one day! I’m looking forward to the day when PARENTS are also going to be held ACCOUNTABLE for their children not passing a TEST!!! Learning begins AT HOME!

By J.C

June 9, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this

Why is it so important to give the results by race?

Why not gender? Or single family homes? Or social classes? Or even school systems?

Or favorite flavor of ice cream????

It seems totally irrelevant to report the results by race. What are test makers and educators trying to convey?

By lynn d

June 9, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

JC

It is important because if you don’t disaggrate test scores and only show the average, it is easy to presume that all students are doing ok.

That is the only good premise behind NCLB — that schools need to be held accountable for all students and not “hide” low performing students in the test results of higher performing students. And yes, unfortunately, many low performing students are minorities.

The state will at a later date, release test scores by gender as well (at least in each school’s report card. They also release scores by economically disadvantaged not economically disadvantaged (there is the social class you asked about) and the will (and frankly, should have already) release the scores by system. After the data is verified, school by school reports will be issued.

By Leia

June 9, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

CH - Who says that private schools perform better than public? You claim to have attended a private school, and can’t conjugate verbs correctly! I went to a public school (not in Ga.) and have always excelled academically.

Furthermore, private schools can exclude to accept students. Public school teachers must teach any and every”thing” on our rosters! Perhaps if I could handpick all of my students - I’d have great results too.

Amen.

By CH

June 9, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

See Leia you hit the nail on the head. You didn’t go to school in Georgia. We were taught the same subjects as public schools. And it was one teacher (nun) who was teaching all the subjects. It’s strange too that my daughter tells me that her class goes to a different room for math, and science and she is in elementary. Middle school kids change classes and the teacher teaches one subject. The only advance private has over public is the class size. Now if the class size was lower in the schools now. I think the teacher would have an easier time teaching the kids and they would learn more. Also there are reports out there that compare private schools against public schools on how the kids perform on tests. Check it out sometime.

By Leia

June 9, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this

CH - I don’t have to read the reports; I live them! Private schools pick and choose which standardized tests they give, if any. They also do not have to make the results public. They usually only give the parents their own child’s results. I see the private school kids who end up coming to public high school. Sometimes, it is depressing how far behind they are. You’re right - the class size is smaller, so these kids are used to having one-on-one instruction whenever they want it. When they get to high school (public), they sink! Not only are the rules (cough, cough) so much more lax - and they can’t really handle that much freedom, but, they also cannot keep up with the coursework without LOTS of tutoring.

I’m speaking generally about the cases I’ve had. Your mileage may vary.

By bobby

June 9, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

I attended public school and there is a difference between counties and private. I was a C student in a Fulton county school and when I was trans. to Atlanta city school system because that is where I was supposed to be going in the first place based on my address, I was an instant Dean’s list student, getting free Braves tickets and everything. At that time Fulton county was better than Atlanta city schools. My best friend who attended private school up until 8th grade was in middle school with me at Ralph Bunche running errands as he was so advanced. I did attend his private school once on a day you could invite your friends and I had no idea what they were talking about in class - I was lost. Of course my friend spent all of 8th grade doing nothing but errands, once he got to high school he became an average student because he was not challenged for a whole school year in the 8th grade. He had another friend that attended private school all the way through and in the 10th grade he scored like a 1400+ on the SAT. I am certain that there were a couple of people at his school who scored as well or better in the 10th grade. I do not know about now, but back then in the 80’s, private school difference was very visible but also the different school districts also.

By Upset Concerned Parent

June 13, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

Since everyone else was placing comments on here I thought maybe I should also. We need to find out who to speak to that cares first of all. I believe all of these tests especially the pass/fail tests are completely nuts! My child is in elementary, got an award for her grades this year but yet is going to this summer class to retake the Math section of the CRCT due to being off by 7 points. My daughter has made awesome grades this year, she has studied hard, completed her homework every night and basically I feel like the Ga Board of Education is punishing her for working hard & caring! We work with her at home all the time so I do not want an awful comment coming back to me saying it’s up to the parents. I do not think I should be teaching her everything at home that is what school is for but at the same time I do believe you need to be there for your kids at home to help them with homework & studying if needed & also to teach them school is important. I think there is already way too much on kids these days, way too much. The homework & studying has gotten out of control! I do not think anyone should have the pressure & stress of one test pass/fail. I know there is more to it than pass/fail but it’s just what’s the point? Why even have to worry or get upset about something like that?! My child has her parents behind her 100% and she had caring teachers this year. I think what happened was the tests are too stressful for kids, they will have enough of that later in life why not let them be kids now, I think we all turned out OK without all of these tests. Also, I know my daughter’s teachers were great this year I think they just don’t have time to actually teach anymore. Everything is just being crammed in, more & more every day, every year.My daughter gets very nervous with big tests like the CRCTs. All kids do not test well. Just like all kids do not learn the same. I do not know how this test was ever put in place anyway! When these tests came back we explained to my daughter how great she did and how proud of her we were(her dad &I). I also let her know that I did not & do not agree with the CRCT testing. My daughter is great, works hard, cares, makes good grades. Of course I do not agree with basically punishing her for working hard all year, making good grades then having to retake a test & go to a summer class. So, we are rewarding her for her good grades as always & also rewarding her for attending the summer class. I just don’t think kids should be graded on one test, crazy!

By Educators Quit quicker

June 14, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

Hello, I have read some of the harsh comments by some of the individuals outside of the education field who look directly at teachers as the only reason why students are not learning. The attitudes need to change. The most critical comment was made by the individual who stated that teachers sit on the desk chairs and watch students fail.

In opposition to that comment as an educator, I would like to bring up the following:

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