Get Schooled

By justme

June 1, 2006 08:08 AM | Link to this

After teaching for 5 years, I see more racial tension at my high school than ever. The tension is directed from the black teachers towards the white teachers. I don’t know where it is coming from, but just in this one year it has escalated quite a bit….. what a shame and very unprofessional.

By hs sped

June 1, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this

I’ve never heard of the school. Is it a private school? Are the criminals rich kids looking for a thrill?

By Teacher Teacher

June 1, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

I received a student for second semester who had been kicked out of Grady for drugs and fighting. The parent was in total denial about the child, constanting pestering (and I mean daily) each teacher about every little thing that occurred in the student’s classes. The parent used the concept of Grady like a club. The child, having attended Grady all his/her life until this one mishap, is gifted and underperforms because of the poor teachers at the new school. Even though the student came to my class (when he/she came) late and smelling like weed, even though the student was belligerent (when he/she remained awake), even though the student picked fights with any other student in the class who attempted to behave and learn, even though the student dressed in drug-related clothing every day, even though the student was finally suspended from school for the last two weeks of the semester, even though the student was found in possession of less than an ounce of pot and brass knuckles, even though the student completed no make-up work and did not take the final (he/she balled it up and threw it at me), even though every conversation I had with either the student or his/her parent began or ended with one or both of them cursing and threatening me, even though I altered my schedule to make tutorial (that the student attended only once and slept) more easily accessible for that one student, even though I received threatening e-mail from the parent about the grade his/her child would receive from me, and even though I jumped through every hoop and amassed a trove of documentation, I was forced to give the student a seventy for a final grade as well as to indicate his/her conduct was satisfactory.

Grady? Puh-leeeeeeez!

By SNY

June 1, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

TT,

That is absolutely horrible!! I cannot believe that your administration did not stand behind you in failing this student. But, just out of curiousity (sp) what is considered drug related clothing?

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

June 1, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

As far as Grady is concerned, all schools have bad apples.

I’m sick of teachers saying that the administration made me give a child a good grade when they deserved a failing grade.

You do not have to sign any document that you do not agree with and there are methods to dispute things you do not agree with. If you gave a student a passing grade when you knew the child deserved a failing grade, there is no one else to blame but yourself.

Stop saying that someone forced you to do something you did not want to do. Unless they held a gun to your head, you are 100% at fault.

If you know the child deserves a failing grade, then for GOODNESS SAKES GIVE THE CHILD A FAILING GRADE. I think you will find a lot of sympathy for giving a grade you knew the child deserved, than to keep saying Someone else MADE ME DO IT.

We all have to stand up for ourselves at some point in life, even if it means being fired for doing it.

By SET

June 1, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

This is interesting. A School with a constant 66% black and 29% white ratio for years?

That would be a first. But then, maybe things are different in GA from the rest of the US. Doubt it.

The reason these ratios are never constant is the behavior described above by Teacher, Teacher and the reactions of TT and the other posters.

Public Schools are in existance for reasons other than to teach - and for students to learn. They are in existance for political and policy reasons that have little or nothing to do with education.

Once the black percentage reaches a certain level - and the behavior changes from mainstream norms (dare I say “White”?) to Black norms - good politics deems it necessary to pander to the perceived Black norms rather than to kick behinds to keep everyone (including parents) performing at mainstream norms.

This became policy in the 1960’s with the “civil rights movement” when the democratic coalition took power across the US and decided it would be useful to give the Blacks whatever they seemed to want as long as they voted democratic. The rest is history.

Be careful what you wish for.

So we have 80% + black illigitimacy in the urban cities, welfare lifestyles, and levels of crime unheard of in any civilized society in history. Incidentially we now have all black public schools that are war zones. Before Brown vs Board of Education we had all black schools (my family both attended and taught in several) that were not war zones.

And Today’s school administration prevents teachers from flunking people, expelling people, or correcting their english.

And we educated people scratch our heads and wonder why this is all happening.

The reaction of all other parents of reasonable IQ is to pull their kids out of black schools - either move or enroll in segregated (by merit) private schools. And the black upper class is out ahead of the crowd running faster than any of them.

Which is why I’m very skeptical that the ratio of this school (Grant) has stayed constant for years.

All of this could be stopped in a generation if the leadership of this country decided enough is enough.

And one more thing. I’ve mentioned this before but it goes with this thread… I have lunch occasionally with the local public health disease control officers. We have 6% black population in our county (largely concentrated in the county seat which is 10%+ black). Our County AIDS stats say 60% of new Dx are blacks. The average age at Dx is 24. They were likely infected 10 years earlier. We hear things are worse in other areas of CA.

Because of the long incubation period the real impact of this is yet to be felt. Yes folks, it’s racial. Another Gap..

Teachers - look at your 12th grade students and imagine what might be happening. And we worry about their test scores.

The state and national governments could control this with forced testing and contact tracing. That’s how the Syphillis Epidemic of the 1920’s was stopped before penicillin.

That won’t happen either. All this pain (both in health and occupation training) the younger generation will be experiencing is avoidable. If they mattered enough to fight with them to save them.

Brave New World!

By b. white

June 1, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

The attorney for the young men who were involved in the altercation described them as “kids”. What????? These kids had two guns and were going to kill this man they were trying to rob. These are not “kids” out having a good time. These are murdering thugs. Let them serve the time for their crime. That attorney on t.v. defending his clients made me sick.

By Teacher Teacher

June 1, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

Is your moniker Independent Woman because you have amassed so much personal wealth that you can afford to risk termination? What makes me sick are people like you who obviously are so self-aware that their own reality permeates all that they see.

Frankly, in my salad days when I did not have a $2000 monthly mortgage note, a $350 car note for my teenager, and the daily concerns about my wife and extended family (a mother at age eighty-one who has serious health problems), I would have told the principal, the parent, and whoever else needed to be told, to f off. Now, however, approaching the double nickels of life, I must think of familial needs and can only tell you, dear Independent Woman, to f off.

Enjoy your independence. Just stop letting your parade march over others.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

June 1, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

Teacher Teacher - you clearly need to find a new occupation. If you give grades because someone made you do it, you are doing more HARM than GOOD.

By Taxpayer

June 1, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

Teacher, Teacher — I don’t doubt what you are saying about having to pass a kid or else risk your job. I also don’t doubt that if you had failed to give this wretched delinquent a passing grade, said deliquent and crazed parent would have sued, complained, and continued to make your life miserable. Deliquent might even have decided to express his/her displeasure in a more personal and violent way, and that could have been you that had to fight off an attack. No, it’s not right, but there are many, many more considerations that go into assigning grades than idealistic people want to acknowledge.

By Laf

June 1, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

Should an incompetent teacher be allowed to give a failing grade? Has a teacher ever used poor judgement when assigning pass/failing grades? Who has the final right and responsibility for seeing to it that grades are assigned in a fair and effective manner?

By Jeff

June 1, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this

Check this:

Last week, I had about 1/3 of my low level students failing. (Primarily due to not turning things in. My class was DESIGNED to be able to show up, stay awake, turn things in and PASS!!)

On top of that, I have about 5 high level kids failing.

Before my school let me leave, the Assistant Prinicpal for instruction wanted to see my grades. He wouldn’t let me leave until those kids passed!!!! He specifically said “I just want to make sure that none of the [high level class] kids failed.” NEVER asked me about how their grades were, was ONLY concerned with the fact that none of them could fail… even though about TEN FAILED EOCT.

Wound up doing a lot of “creative” grading on the work days and only 9 kids failed… out of about 25 that should have.

Oh, and non-teachers: All somebody has to do is say we are being “unprofessional” and they can get rid of a teacher in a heartbeat… the exact infraction is never asked for.

By Karen Armsby

June 1, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this

Teacher Teacher, Not only are you not a teacher, you are a total loser, telling Amazed to f off? Nice talk.

By SET

June 1, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

Teacher Teacher:

Karen is right.

Many of us have been blogging here a long time - we do push the envelope during times when we are frustrated or annoyed at how things go and how other bloggers miss something.

One of the rules here is no direct insults, namecalling, etc. Even if it wasn’t one of Patti’s rules, you sound like a teenager when you resort to namecalling.

That having been said many have had lapses, including me - but being adults we usually keep it dignified.

Looking forward to more postings from you - if you are new to the blog - can you say something about yourself so we know what your perspective comes from?

By SET

June 1, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

Jeff:

Your experience is what scares me so much about public schools. Teachers should never have to live like you do.

But you, and most of us, assume the school is there to educate. The point I make is that is not true. The real mission of the public schools is other than the administration pretends it is. Because you (so far) are a true believer, you are caught by surprise - perhaps over and over. You are probably shocked!, shocked! at what you are experiencing.

I’m not shocked at all. I am mad about it, though.

By GAPeachTeacher

June 1, 2006 11:39 PM | Link to this

I teach at an Atlanta-area charter school. My strong desire for an immediate change from my old environment made the charter school appear to be very attractive. All of my anticipation quickly diminished once I realized that the board and administrators of my school are total LOSERS (pardon my child-like name calling).

Only LOSERS allow students who are constantly disruptive, verbally and physically abusive to other students and teachers, among other things, to return to class after being “counseled” for 5 minutes.(ie: A 1st grader punched his teacher in the face and bragged, “Yeah! I did it! I punched the teacher! Who’s going to do anything about it?”) Sure, let him back in class to affect the learning of on-task students. Of course, we can not create a negative image in the eyes of outsiders who think we’re “all that”.

Only LOSERS allow children to make sexually explicit advances toward one another and spend 2 days at home. What ever happened to zero tolerance?? Has the tribunal process been abolished?? Give me a break, I’ve seen some genuinely good kids turn to absolute fools in an attempt to emulate the behaviors of their peers that go unpunished.

Don’t get me wrong, the defendants in the Midtown assault deserve to suffer severe consequences for their actions. I applaud the Marine for his “fight or flight” attitude, and am glad that he was not seriously injured. Unfortunately a child lost her life, but these kids obviously thought they were invincible. It starts at home, and is reinforced at school. Someone has got to give a care & put their foot down (or in the posterior!!)

By healingrobe

June 2, 2006 12:56 AM | Link to this

Ahhh.. a perfect world… When I decided to become a teacher, I just knew I would teach to a diverse population in a suburban area. I just knew that all of the parents were going to be as supportive as my mom was of my teachers. I just knew that even though I would be paid very little, I would be rewarded by having served my community. Well, none of that came to be. I teach at a majority black, innercity school. Parents become upset when you tell them their child is doing NOTHING, but you know they are capable of greatness.

Ladies and gentlemen, please stop judging and commenting on things that you have yet to experience. It’s so easy to say, “Well he should have or I would have.” In the perfect school, I thought I would be able to actually teach, but no. I have to referee, teach home-training, police, and several other things that have NOTHING to do with teaching and I shouldn’t have to do.

And yes in a perfect world I would be dumb enough to lose my job over a brat who did absolutely nothing in my class all year. I had that ideal once in my head. I just knew I wouldn’t pass a kid who didn’t deserve it, but then reality kicked in and I realized that I needed to pay my bills. Now for that person who suggested someone lose their job over that please pay my bills and I will do just that. I will do what is right. I feel you either lack maturity or/and have a trust fund. The majority of people who work for a living find themselves doing things they don’t agree with. It’s life.

And hey if you want to help the cause, be a good parent. Make sure your friends and family are good parents. I’m so tired of the world blaming the teacher. Where is the child’s responsibility. Where is the parent’s responsibility. That’s why the United States is so far behind. We want to blame the wrong people and we make excuses for kids who do nothing.

By Laf

June 2, 2006 01:00 AM | Link to this

Teachers telling others to f—— off and inappropriate racial remarks doesn’t improve the image of the teaching profession. It would be embarrassing for teachers if some of these post on this blog ended up in the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Remember we are the people that are appaled by what our students post on MySpace.

By SET

June 2, 2006 02:35 AM | Link to this

Gee - is the “inappropriate” racial remarks referring to any of my posts?

What is an “appropriate” racial remark?

Is Laf’s comment a claim that all races have the same IQs and learning capacity - and temperment? I believe that is the politically correct way of thinking.

I’m not politically correct. I think I might have been once. I seem to remember voting for McGovern. Funny what living a lifetime will do for someone. It’s called experience.

The politically correct establishment will go on with their “We are the world” fantasy while the minority students pile up in the morgue (or prison) so high we can’t process them fast enough. In my state we see that the City of Oakland is having a Murder every 2 and a half days. Guess what? Nearly none of the dead or the killers are white. And if you look at the ages of the involved, they are not long out of the Public High Schools.

So I complain a lot about my belief that the public schools are failing the largely monority students (who else would go to one in this state’s urban areas?) by running schools with a complete lack of discipline and a maniacal refusal to segregate those who perform from those who don’t.

Sorry liberals, the all black schools were much better than this in the 1950’s. My family went to them and taught in them. Their tactics would be considered child abuse today.

And it’s not just that the modern students are not made to learn to read and write and speak standard english. It’s not just that the schools turn out a product that (too often) can’t get into the army or get an honest job. Now the products of the public schools have real problems with mortality tables.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel that things are gtting worse, not better.

Too bad if I’m getting racial but the white students in this state - and the country - seem to be doing OK. I want better for the minority students even if we have to make the poor things a little (or very) unhappy every single day of school. They would wear better with less self esteem and more manners.

If it hurts to read these things in print tell me I’m wrong and things are going well and are expected to get better.

So exactly what does the readership propose to get the minority students up to mainstream standards of reading, writing, speech and deportment? Arguing with them? Bribing them? Begging the parent to stop being whatever it is they are and become a Television-quality parent?

By mm

June 2, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this

Teacher Teacher,

Don’t worry. Independent is clueless and has been for a long time. I’ve been waiting for some time now for her announcement that she is running for State Superintendent of Schools or something where her clear knowledge of EVERYTHING can be of assistance to us all. I’m glad you told her to take a hike!

By Dekalb Educator

June 2, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this

Although I do not agree with the F- Off comment, I will agree with teacher teacher on the comments made. Unless one has been in a teacher’s shoes under these circumstances, then one truly doesn’t know.

In the 10 yrs I’ve been teaching, I’ve only had ONE positive turn out with giving a child a failing grade with the help of my adminstrator (I’ve worked under 3 in the same school) I told her I could not and would NOT give that child a passing grade and gave her my documentation of trying to contact the parent (even though all went ignored)…

Since then, it is do as they say. If nothing else, they can and WILL change things with or withOUT your knowledge. (as I’ve seen done)

This stuff runs deep people..deeper than what you know (unless you are on the inside with the teachers and see for yourself).

By SupportingTeacherTeacher

June 2, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this

Amazed sounds like someone who would blame a rape victim for engaging in “inappropriate behavior”.

It’s Teacher Teacher’s fault that morally bankrupt administrators don’t support teachers giving students the grade they deserve?! THAT…is “amazing”.

As far a “methods to dispute,” I’m sure there were “methods to dispute” the genocide in Rwanda as well…didn’t stop THAT from happening.

The methods mean nothing absent a culture of ETHICS to enforce them; clearly something lacking in public schools.

Maybe if Amazed and like minded people were as “sick and tired” of the way morally bankrupt school systems treat teachers, then teachers COULD start giving the students the grades they deserve…that she acknowleges it’s a choice between passing the child or committing professional suicide, SHOULD be an indication of what she should truly be “sick and tired” of…

By Karen Armsby

June 2, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

I have to side with Amazed on the grading issue. I am not a teacher, and forgive me if I presume too much, but don’t teachers adhere to a code of ethics, and what about your ersonal and professional integrity? If school administrations ‘force’ you teachers to change grades and pass failing students, then all of you teaching professionals need to step up, show some integrity and demand and enforce your codes of ethics.

Teacher Teacher, You apparently think it’s OK to trade your integrity for job security. That’s sad.

By SET

June 2, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this

Is the only answer to the problem of forced passing of bad students to quit?

That would solve the ethical question. Or are you supposed to make book on the administration - write lots of memos documenting every comment from administration - and then get them to fire you? Then sue.

These are things teachers are supposed to have a union for.

Personally I wouldn’t go through school with the related student loans and chose a career in a public school. Face it, People, these schools are not there for teaching as we used to know it.

They exist to move along largely untrained, unhousebroken minorities - that the local government wants handled in this fashion. When you take a job in such a factory this is what you get.

You can try to find a “good” school district - any smarter teachers do. But even the “good” districts will turn into bad ones when their mission is other than to produce accomplished students. The primary mission of schools is to survive as an institution and that means doing anything to keep the money rolling in.

The more idealistic the teacher the more anguish when he/she runs into reality and reality bites. If you want different conditions stop teaching in public primary and secondary schools and move to competitive private schools and competitive colleges.

All good teachers diserve better working conditions but they have to put their foot down and not be pushovers.

Brave New World.

By Jeff

June 2, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

Karen,

Unfortunately it is that very code of ethics that forces this situation upon us. You see, in that code of ethics “professionalism” is one of the things stressed the most. Not honor. Not integrity. Not honesty. Not valor. Professionalism. And if we do not change the grades when we are so ordered, administration will say we are being “unprofessional” and can us as soon as the word is out of their mouth. Heck, I’ve been known to abide by county dress code and get chewed out because my clothes weren’t “professional”!!!

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

June 2, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this

The sad thing is that most of you don’t seem to think that you are doing an injustice to the students.

How can you tell a student and parent, not to blame teachers when a child fails or does poorly in school - when you guys “blame” others when you choose to “pass” a student, because someone else put a gun to your head and a pen in your hand. You are making a conscious decision to falsify documents. It should be a crime, punishable by law - to give a grade to a student he/she does not deserve for both Teachers and administrators.

I find it morally reprehensible to blame someone else for something I had a “CHOICE” in doing. You can blame a bad administration, but the end result lies with you. The next “teacher” gets the end result of YOUR Choice. They get the child who reads at a third grade level, because his third grade teacher refused to stand up to his/her administration and or parent.

The one thing, I can’t believe is the support that “Teacher Teacher” has received from other teachers and maybe some parents for falsifying a student’s grade. Many of you supported “Nease”(??) in Gwinnett, but are acknowledging doing exactly what this teacher refused to do.

If the administration in your school is “BAD” and “Un-Supportive” and you fall in line when asked, then you are just as bad as the administration you complain about on this blog every day.

Yet, I’m a single mom, who has never been married and according to many of you, it’s people like myself who are bad and un-supportive parents – making the school system bad and reproducing under-achieving Left of the Bell Curve Neanderthals.

I have supported my daughter’s teacher, because I have truly been blessed. However, I hope that I never come into contact with any teacher like “some” of you.

I will not say, what I really want to say to you. But, I will say, after reading the last few comments directed at me. Why should I support “MOST” of you?

By Karen Armsby

June 2, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

Jeff, I understand what you are saying, that school administrators are using the professional code to pressure teachers to produce the results they want. However, blind adherence in a chain of command is an institutional fault, and you are just playing the vicitm if you don’t stand up to obvious wrongs. If only teachers would organize and insist on doing the right thing, taking personal responsibility for ethics and professionalism. Doc Neace did it last year at Dacula High School, and yes he lost his job, but he landed in a better high school in Barrow County. I have high respect for his professionalism and ethics, and I have no respect for the whole pack of hen pecked, lock-step, rule enforcing administators in the Gwinnett County Public School System. No guts, no glory.

By Marie

June 2, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this

Amazed - the absolute truth is - we really don’t care if you “support” us or not. Of course it would make life easier, but, in the long haul - it doesn’t really matter!

What is also “unfair” is that many parents will use the “I’m a single mother” routine to try to gain sympathy and persuade a teacher to gasp falsify documents! I swear, when I hear “I’m a single mother…”, I tune out completely. Why should your child’s grade have any correlation to your choice of marital status? There exists one grading scale - not a separate one for kids born under different circumstances.

I will not say what I really want to say either! But, suffice it to say that YOU should do your job as a parent and allow me to do mine as a teacher.

By C.R.H.

June 2, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

Even if teacher/teacher didn’t change the grade, the administration would have. And then he/she would still be out of a job or “reassigned” to a worse job. I have a better idea, why don’t all the teachers quit their jobs and take higher paying jobs in the “real world” and leave all the parents, students and crappy administrators to fend for themselves? I have.

By Velatra

June 2, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

Amazed,

Although I wholeheartedly disagree with TeacherTeacher’s obscene remark, I can definitely understand the frustration behind it. You attacked him when he was basically stating that he was trying not to be insubordinate. What is deemed as insubordination by administration is what can cause teachers to go through a profession, and emotional, nightmare. TeacherTeacher stated that he went above and beyond his duty to help a student who didn’t give a hoot about him/herself. So, why should TT sacrifice his/her career for that student?

Karen, you also questioned TT’s integrity. Obedience to authority is part of integrity. I, too, was somewhat in TT’s position…at a private CHRISTIAN school! However, I did as I was told, kept up with my documentation, and left the school.

It is so easy to berate others when we have not walked in their schools. Amazed, because you’ve stated in so many terms about your beliefs, please read 1 Peter 2:13 and Hebrews 13:17.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

June 2, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

Marie,

I didn’t state I was a single mom to gain sympathy from you or any teacher on this blog. I have never told any teacher I was a single parent, because it doesn’t have anything to do with my child’s education.

It was used to point out the things people in education use as excuses for failing schools in this country. If you ask SET, he would tell you that minorities and those single moms are the BIGGEST Problem in public schools. My point is that, teacher are a part of the problem and cannot place all the blame on parents and administrations. When you falsify grades, you are part of the problem.

I know that there are bad parents and I know there are bad administrators, but I am conscious enough to know that there are an equal amount of BAD Teachers as well.

C.R.H - you did the right thing.

And I say, let the administration change the grades. It then lies on their moral values. Don’t let someone else compromise your morals. Your jobs are not the only jobs with ethics. I have ethics I must follow that will not cause harm to the consumer. If I falsify information, businesses could loose millions of dollars. They rely heavily on my ethics. But, the biggest thing about myself, is that my ethics are more important to me.

By velatra

June 2, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Oops,

“…go through a profession, and emotional, nightmare”

This should be professional.

“It is so easy to berate others when we have not walked in their schools. ” Should be “shoes”. Sorry.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

June 2, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

Velatra,

Don’t make suggestions that I read the bible, when the entire topic of bearing false witness and lying about grades is the primary conversation.

Stop picking and choosing, what you consider my sins - while at the same time dismissing the sins of others.

Well there goes SET’s theory that a private school would be better for teachers and students.

A private Christian school made you give a student passing grades…. I only thought that happened in the public schools with all those “SO called” Sinners.

You don’t have to walk in someone elses shoes to know the difference between right and wrong.

This message is telling the students to Do as I say, not as I do. Lead by example…….. If you expect students and parents to have moral and ethics - then you must also show moral and ethics.

Don’t shoot the messenger…….

By Velatra

June 2, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Amazed,

Right now, I’m “amazed” by your response. I have not made any suggestions or assumptions about your reading the Bible, nor your so-called “sins”. However, your defensiveness leads me to wander. What I was attempting to do was to get you to look at TT’s side from another view. If I’ve offended you in any way, I sincerely apologize. It was definitely not my intent to judge or offend you. The only reason why I included the Bible reference was to support MY views about submitting to authority. ALL of us, especially myself, can stand to be reminded of what the Word says, even if we’ve read it from cover to cover.

Also, I think when teachers are obeying their superiors, they are showing “moral and ethics” and being examples of such to the students. I try very hard to model what I expect from my students, and if I want them to obey me, I have to obey my authority. Thanks.

By JW

June 2, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

“Teacher Teacher” has described one heck of a nightmare scenario. Many people have focused comments on the grade changing aspect. I would like to focus on the actual student because there is no reason the individual described should have received any grade at all! Is this not a perfect example of the need for more alternative programs? Teachers really need to be given more authority to get such students out of the classroom and away from the other students. I say teachers need this authority because it has become more and more obvious that “some” administrators will not step up and do what needs to be done in the area of student discipline/consequences. Whether you agree with the grade changing actions or not, I don’t think you can disagree with the fact that this student & parent should not have been allowed to monopolize this teachers’ time and efforts this way. I know that I would not want my child’s teacher having to constantly deal with such problems rather than focusing on planning lessons and actually teaching!

By velatra

June 2, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

Amazed,

Right now, I’m “amazed” by your response. I have not made any suggestions or assumptions about your reading the Bible, nor your so-called “sins”. However, your defensiveness leads me to wander. What I was attempting to do was to get you to look at TT’s side from another view. If I’ve offended you in any way, I sincerely apologize. It was definitely not my intent to judge or offend you. The only reason why I included the Bible reference was to support MY views about submitting to authority. ALL of us, especially myself, can stand to be reminded of what the Word says, even if we’ve read it from cover to cover.

Also, I think when teachers are obeying their superiors, they are showing “moral and ethics” and being examples of such to the students. I try very hard to model what I expect from my students, and if I want them to obey me, I have to obey my authority. Thanks.

By velatra

June 2, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

Thanks, JW. Amen.

By Karen Armsby

June 2, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

Velatra, Obedience and Integrity, an interesting juxtaposition. I understand obedience in the chain of command, I work for living, too. And I understand insubordination. I also understand that when one’s blind obedience contradicts what you know is right; when it contradicts personal or professional ethics, then one should choose the right path and stand up to the authority for what you know is right.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

June 2, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

Valetra you specific said “Amazed, because you’ve stated in so many terms about your beliefs, please read 1 Peter 2:13 and Hebrews 13:17.”

I’m not someone who is easily offended. So, you don’t have to applogize because it would take more than words to offend me.

I’ll end my part of the discussion by saying - Teacher Teacher brought to life a real problem in education. If a child is receiving a passing grade, when the child deserved a failing grade. How many are receiving an “A”, when they should have received a “B” or “C”? Grade inflations, anyone????????

I’ll see you all next week……Have a great weekend.

By velatra

June 2, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

Karen,

Let me ask one question. What would have done if you were in TT’s position?

I think where we disagree is whose integrity is being questioned. TT’s was given a command despite his disagreement and documentation to back it up. Now, do you think TT’s livelihood—meaning his career, family obligations, etc.—were worth losing because of this student AND the administration’s cowardice?

Yes, I believe in standing up for what’s right. But, there are times when I pick which battles to fight.

By SET

June 2, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

Amazed:

I don’t think Minorities and the single mothers are the biggest problem in the schools. Although it may seem that they are principal clients of some of our urban public schools.

The biggest problem of the public schools is the false mission statement that they are there to produce competent students, That is not why the schools are there anymore.

I want people to understand me on this. I don’t care how bright or dull a class full of kids are. A good teacher with the full backing of the school administration can get more out of them than the students ever thought they were capable of.

But you can’t accomplish this if one of your goals is to keep them smiling and happy. (Parents also). Remember the old TV show “Fame” - in the opening credits the teacher told them that (Making it) “Fame” Costs, and here’s where you pay! She had a stick in her hand and a rather severe expression… The point was that her class and that school was not going to be painless, it would be very tough.

We have, as a nation, moved away from tough schooling into a “keep them happy” approach. This is a complete failure. Whether the classes are mixed IQ or separate tracks - in the early 60’s there was no tolerance for failure and troublemaking. No excuses accepted. The products of those schools did better under that scheme. Even the dull were trained to make it in life. Not so now.

Don’t mistake my position a simply blaming anything on minorities, quite the opposite. We can get much more out of our students and perhaps the minorities as a group need a lot more “attention”. They won’t like the “attention”. That’s not a problem in my book. We can start by forcing them to use proper English, and move on from there to deportment lessons.

What we are doing now is letting them go to hell through good intentions.

As I’ve said before, the brighter students will take care of themselves. Even setting up their own schools if it pleases them to do so. I’m worried about what is happening to the bottom half - the left side of the bell curve. I think they could have a much better life with tough schooling.

And (My Vote) TT and other teachers should remove themselves from rotten schools. They made a mistake ever working in those nuthouses. You can’t change or save these places. Leave as soon as possible (change jobs or careers) and then complain bloody murder about what you saw there.

But it’s TT’s decision. I can’t tell others how to live. If he stays to support his family and goes along with the program - that’s life. I don’t expect him to be a martyr.

Brave New World!

By Velatra

June 2, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

SET,

Gosh, it must be a new day because with your last post. Usually, your views and mine differ. Like they say, I guess there’s a first for everything. ;- )

By teach overseas

June 2, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

What an interesting discussion. Those of you who are not teachers have no idea the kind of “punishment” an angry admin can dish out. A teacher who has been in a school for a while has worked up to some seniority priviledges. Things like honors or AP classes (the ones we really enjoy) clubs and activities, classrooms, heads of department and even teaching and planning periods. These things can easily be taken away as punishment for a “wayward” or “uncorporative” teacher. I know they don’t sound like much from the outside- but this is all we have. Yes, the physics teacher in Gwinnett might have your respect for standing up for himself- but he is now driving to another county and is at the bottom of the totem pole in that school. Why should Teacher/Teacher have to risk professional death for one crappy student?

Yes, it would be nice if all of us stood up for one another- but in the state of Georgia, teacher unions are considered UNPROFESSIONAL- sound familiar? Teachers don’t stand up because we are busy watching our own backsides and as long as admin is after someone else- they are leaving us alone. Guess what? We don’t want the crap classes, get assigned an ISS class as part of our class load, get duty standing at the bathroom door during lunch or “reassigned” to some farthest reach of the county. It sounded good to be Nease- but reality is—- all the teachers saw what happened to him and took note.

Teacher/Teacher- only teachers know all that you did for that kid and what pressure you were under by the admin. Lots of big talk going around by people who are not in the trenches.

By Matt

June 2, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

As a past Grady student (2002) I think it is absolutely ridiculous for people to question Grady’s reputation after one incident. Grady is a wonderful school that prepared me well enough to graduate summa cum laude from UGA. Sure there are a few bad students, but every school has bad students. Yes even those schools out in the ‘burbs. So take a tour of Grady and look around. I guarantee you will see something that you see at no other high school in Georgia. Kids from different backgrounds, class and race ignoring all of their differences and learning from each other.

By Jeff

June 2, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

Well, just had some exciting developments on the new school front (FINALLY got my contract for one, talked to a program specialist for a program I’ll be using as well)

Anyways… just wanted to say a BIG AMEN to overseas’ last comment to TT

By SET

June 2, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

Velatra:

Careful about agreeing with me.

People are happier when they think I’m crazy and they are correct.

It’s not fun saying the Emperor has no clothes.

By Taxpayer

June 2, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this

Funny how this blog about Grady High has morphed into a discussion of teachers being forced to give passing grades. I’m reminded of the main character, Ripley, from the movie Aliens III, who says, “I’m finding a lot of things funny lately, but I don’t think they are.”

This business of passing kids who don’t deserve it is nothing new, and neither is the terrible spectacle of children engaging in violent criminal behavior. Yet we seem to enjoy attacking each other more than suggesting any ideas for addressing either situation, and we revel in our moral outrage at anything that doesn’t jive with our standards, lifestyles, beliefs, etc.

Sorry, but another movie quote comes to mind. As G-man Eliot Ness laments over the brutality of Chicago mobsters, his mentor, a savvy veteran Irish cop who walks a beat, says, “Well, what are you prepared to do about it?”

Well, savvy, aware, concerned bloggers, what ARE you prepared to do? Any suggestions, or shall we just stick with the personal attacks, which get us nowhere but are mighty entertaining.

By SET

June 2, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer:

Publicly talking about all these issues is a big step. Especially debating things that are politically incorrect.

Before Patti’s blog there was little daily public discourse in a national newspaper about what is happening in our urban schools. We are doing something. If our words back and forth jog parents and politicians and teachers to start speaking up publicly the way we all do here - then there has been a change.

Many people have been voting with their feet ever since the 1960’s, when I think we can agree the urban schools started to let standards slide. That counts as action also.

Information is power and Ideas can move people into and out of cities and even states. Ideas can even make a government change from one direction to another and back again.

So we keep typing on our computers and see what other people think and learn what is happening. I have no doubt that all our words will lead to action in the forseeable future. Don’t know exactly what will happen, though!

By Laf

June 2, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

Yes Set the inappropriate racial remarks referred to your post. You implied in that post that the blacks are the major problems of the current situation. I imagine socio-economic background has a lot more to do with it than skin color.

By Karen Armsby

June 2, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this

Velatra, I am not a teacher. I thought about going back to school to get a teaching certificate and become a reading specialist, BUT, I had done enough volunteer work in the schools when my kids were there to see that the teaching profession is oppressed by their administrators, that institutional goals, image and ideals come before the needs of teachers and students. In short, I knew that I personally could not put up with that atmosphere, so I chose another path. I have great admiration for teachers and compassion for their challenges. If I had been a teacher I would not have lasted long under the so called professional ethics of administrators. So, to answer your question, if I had been TT I would have walked.

By SET

June 2, 2006 06:49 PM | Link to this

Laf:

No. Socio-Economic background does not affect school performance, IQ, wealth, and other future outcomes.

There has been a ton of writing on Ethnic Economics by Thomas Sowell (Stanford University Professor) who specializes in this. He has covered the economic history of the different ethnics in books such as “Ethnic America”. There are other studies but his are the best reads.

If you think prejudice has anything to do with ethnic economic progress, we are not in the same debate.

You are reading in your own biases into my posts. That’s easy to do since the topic is a loaded one. Why do some groups come into the nation as reviled and despised, and end up owning the place 2 or 3 generations later? Why does another group remain on the scene for 8 generations or more and actually decline? Racial discrimination counts for little or nothing in Ethnic Economics. Historically, the greater the discrimination the stronger the group gets.

Blacks are not the major problems - they are the major damaged group from the government’s current policy of permissiveness. By turning one race into a protected group we’ve done as much harm as feeding the Yosemite Bears at Burger King.

Yes I’m saying that Scandinavian Style welfare policy produces different behavior in German-Americans, Black-Americans, Asian-Americans, etc. The ethnic groups are very different. They have different IQ distributions (big surprise), different reactions to disease and drugs, different behaviors as a result of the physical, mental, and emotional development each ethnic has gone through. Don’t bet on the Irish at an Olympic Track Meet.

Is this a problem? No. All people have strenghts and weaknesses. Learning how to use them to maximum advantage and to work together is what makes this country more interesting than Germany.

It is not a good Idea to put up liquor stores on an Indian Reservation. Too bad, so sad. We are not created equal, except before the law.

Because our silly government refuses to deal with the differences straightforwardly and has tried to impose a racial spoils system in the US we have these situations where good teachers are (justifiably) afraid to correct (or flunk) students in the public schools because of their race - and other races are wholesale segregating themselves into private schools and gated neighborhoods (Los Angeles Unified is down to 5% white).

We see this in CA which has more diversity than perhaps other states. Don’t worry, it’s coming to a town near you.

There is nothing inappropriate about commenting on racial politics in Public Education when I read horror stories about teachers fearing for their safety and their careers if they just try to teach.

I am not politically correct and I don’t care about approval from those who are. Maybe it’s my age.

In CA I see rising stats of black adolescents shoveled into the Jail-Prison industrial complex - and into the AIDS wards - and the funeral homes (Have you seen the current murder stats for Oakland CA?) - and I believe as a former teacher and as a lawyer this would not be happening if this group were properly disciplined and educated in public school. But the schools (administration) have decided not to do it.

So that’s my perspective. I don’t know enough about yours to understand where your point of view comes from.

In CA we are surrounded with deteriorating stats every day and I think it could be reversed. It won’t be. I’m complaining because I think all this deterioration could be stopped even now, if there was more public debate about what is happening and why.

Yes race is appropriate to discuss in school policy. When the prison ratios and the adolescent mortality tables are getting more reasonable I can ease up on you.

By Laf

June 2, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this

teachers that they perceive to be uncooperative. You will never realize why blood is running down your pants leg at a later date. You want even know who cut you. So before you refuse to change the grade you better consider the possible consequences. Is it really worth it? Some teachers can afford to pay the consequences others can not. It just depends on ones circumstances. Things can be especially dangerous if you are a new teacher.

By Laf

June 5, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

Set, I am not implying that it is inappropriate to discuss race. It is inappropriate to lump all blacks together and treat it like they are the only problem. I probably really had a problem with the way you worded the post.

It looks like we might as well agree to disagree. You and Sowell are looking at things from a conservative angle while i am leaning toward the left. I imagine we have very different perspectives on race and education since I am from Georgia and you are from California. Georgia is usually about ten years behind California.

We certainly agree on the fact that we have education and race problems in this country. I enjoyed reading your post very much. Have a good day.

By Karen Armsby

June 6, 2006 08:14 AM | Link to this

SET, Your post of June 2, at 2:13 pm in this thread applies so well in he currently in the CRCT thread. SET said, *”The biggest problem of the public schools is the false mission statement that they are there to produce competent students, That is not why the schools are there anymore.

I want people to understand me on this. I don’t care how bright or dull a class full of kids are. A good teacher with the full backing of the school administration can get more out of them than the students ever thought they were capable of.

But you can’t accomplish this if one of your goals is to keep them smiling and happy. (Parents also). Remember the old TV show “Fame” - in the opening credits the teacher told them that (Making it) “Fame” Costs, and here’s where you pay! She had a stick in her hand and a rather severe expression… The point was that her class and that school was not going to be painless, it would be very tough.”*