Get Schooled

By jim d

May 15, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

Patti,

Speaking of budgets,has anyone looked at the price of Alvins office and furnishings at the new central offices in Gwinnett?

By Robert

May 15, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

This issue always burns me up!

If the “super” did their job, they may be worth the money. But, rarely do they really do their job. They hire hundreds of assistants to do parts of their job for them. And, for every 6-figure administrator out there, it dramatically reduces the monies that actually reach the classroom (supplies or even teacher salary).

Someone once told me that running a school is like running a company. And, so the principal should be paid along the lines of a CEO. If you agree with this (and I do not), then the “super” should be paid like what? Give me a break!!!

Bottom line is that the “super” does not end up doing much of a job at all. They end up being a figure head. So, this position should get a very small compensation.

By high school teacher

May 15, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

Patti, Am I reading the chart correctly? Let me get this straight… some supes get re-imbursed for what comes out of their check for Social Security? Then I assume that they won’t get to draw SS when they reach retirement age. Otherwise, that’s double-dipping. A school system recently fired a custodian because he got paid for driving an athletic bus from the booster club and on a regular time sheet, but a superintendent can get re-imbursed for SS contributions? Give me a break!

By MrLiberty

May 15, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

Wow,

Imagine instead a school where the customer can demand to see an accounting of school expenses that justify the cost of the service. Unsatisfactory responses might be met with the departure of the customer and their money. Gee, sounds like a pretty good way to run a school. Sounds like the customer might actually come first in a system like that.

Too bad we have a government run system without any accountability. Boy, ending government-run schooling sounds pretty scary. Things might actually get better and everything.

By HSTeach

May 15, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

“Perks” are included along w/ a 6 figure salary??? For an education position?? Are you kidding me? I’m not arguing the 6 figure salary, Supes do have a very difficult job and it is hard to find a good one nowadays. However, in school systems that are racked w/ costs and low scores, you still have 6 figure salaries laden w/ incentives, “perks”, and other apparently hidden costs. It makes me want to ask why aren’t teachers given some of these perks as well? Especially the ones that stick it out in problem areas and teach in the schools that need teachers the most? Oh wait…my district affiliation w/ Cingular gets me 15% off my plan…yay!

By decaturparent

May 15, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

I don’t know about most superintendents, but I do know that ours busts her tail and works a ton of “overtime.” It looks like she does not get paid nearly as much as some of her metro collegues - although our district is much smaller than the county districts.

I don’t see why a super should top about mid 100s, including perks (and those perks should be clearly spelled out), but if they are doing their job, imo, they are worth 6 figures. I guess that’s the key question - are they doing their job? We actually had a super over here that preceded the current one, and by all reports(don’t know first hand) she was a complete mess.

By Beccaann

May 15, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

Maybe I read the article too fast, but I only found one instance where the super was reimbursed for SS. Did I read it wrong? Your article makes it sound as if that is true for most of the supers. Is it?

By involved intown parent

May 15, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

A superintendant of schools position IS similar in many ways to that of the CEO of a large corporation. They both control large budgets, employ numerous employees, and answer to diverse stakeholders. School districts deal with numerous facilities, government regulations, complex financing, and they have an obligation to educate everyone, no matter what their skills or inclinations. The superintendant’s job is difficult, and it deserves to be highly compensated.

For a valid comparison, you’d do better comparing similar school districts nationally. The local comparison of highly different systems isn’t any more meaningful than comparing the pay of Coke’s CEO with the pay of the head of Rona, Inc. just because both deal with food & beverage distribution and they’re both headquartered locally.

By involved intown parent

May 15, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

These local comparisons crack me up. They’re next to meaningless. For a valid comparison, this study should look nationally at similar school districts. Just because they’re in the same industry and both headquartered locally, doesn’t mean it’s valid to compare Coke’s CEO package with that of Rona, Inc. (a much smaller foodservice distributor.

A superintendant IS very similar to the CEO of a corporation. Tough job, complex issues, lots of bureaucracy to deal with on every front—including unfunded state and federal mandates, diverse stakeholders with competing interests, complicated facilities issues, a range of talents within the workforce, & topped off—for the supers— with the admirable but Hurculean obligation to educate everyone, regardless of their abilities or inclinations.

By Patti Ghezzi

May 15, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

Beccaann, I counted four - Cherokee, Fayette, Fulton, Forsyth - that reimburse for social security/medicare. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, it’s not my place to do so. I’m just surprised as I was unfamiliar with the perk. Here’s a link to the chart.

By confusedteacher

May 15, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

Patti, This is off topic, but I don’t know if I can wait until you choose to talk about DeKalb County’s latest round of restructuring its middle schools. So, in an attempt to at least begin on topic, let me start by saying OUR superintendent spoke to the faculty at McNair last week, only after asking the concerned parents and students to leave the room, regarding the new Pilot program. Among the most amusing of his comments was a line in particular which caught all of us a little off guard.”At McNair, discipline is not a problem.” After we all picked our dropped jaws up, we asked was he serious. He continued to say McNair is no worse off than any of the other 18 county middle schools. We begged, among other things, to differ on this opinion. He then challenged us to prove this notion of ours with research. Patti—you and all the other bloggers might be interested to know a few details of the research I have done since our super’s request. Out of all the middle school’s in the county, McNair’s community lies within two zip codes—30032 and 30316. After a check on the GBI website for sexual predators,(we figured crimes against children should be of a concern) McNair’s district or attendance zone had 150 registered sex offenders in the school’s zip of 30032 and an additional 54 in 30316. Do the math=204 registered sex offenders. The next closest zip code in the county for a middle school was Stone Mountain with 61. Furthermore, the Georgia Dept. of Corrections’ website has an interesting media campaign which highlights zip codes for the state. It lists the top 25 zip codes contributing to Georgia’s prisoners. No real surprise here either—#4 is 30032 and #10 is 30316. I may be wrong, but I do not believe any other DeKalb zip is on the list. Do any of these factors contribute to our school being a little different? There is also a very humorously interesting satire on our situation called “No Dentist Left Behind” which highlights a dentist wanting to make a difference in a lower-class community. Until one day the state mandates all dentists will be rated by the number of cavities in their patients’ teeth. Our students at McNair come from a very tough neighborhood, but our superintendent sees no issues here.

By M Benson

May 15, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

This is off topic, but I was just informed that my 8th grader did not pass the Math CRCT and will have to go to summer school. I not only blame myself for this, but also the school. I am wondering how many 8th grade Math teachers do NOT issue and use Math books and work books. How many 8th grade Math teachers do not make printed material available to students?

By MMM

May 15, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

Being a superintendent is a thankless job. I would point out to those who think the pay is excessive that a teacher with several years of experience in Georgia typically can expect to take home $50K in most of the larger Atlanta districts these supers are from. This translates into the CEO making about 4x what the front line worker makes. This is peanuts compared to the multiples often found in private industry. Now understand that I’m not advocating that we up their pay. I think that what has happened in private industry is wrong. But I am more concerned about the lack of transparency and availability of what the numbers are in a taxpayer funded position—than that I feel it is inherently wrong that some of them make $200K.

By Jeff

May 15, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Benson,

Students ALWAYS have printed material available to them: their notes…

By M Benson

May 15, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this

Jeff, I disagree, students and parents need more that copied notes from a black board. My 8th grader has not had a math book, math work book, nor any kind of printed material from the school all yr as far as math is concerned. How many of us went thru school without text books or work books for math?

By V for Vendetta

May 15, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

Wow, well let me go ahead and put this out there right now… .

V for Vendetta for Superintendent!!!!!

By C.R.H.

May 15, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

Teachers making $50K? Yeah, I do…I also have a master’s degree & 10 years of experience. I should be getting a hell of a lot more, most people with my level of education & experience in other fields of employment make significantly more.

By Ernest

May 15, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this

To the point of the blog, compensation packages should clearly point out the sources of cash and non cash income a ‘tax paid’ employee makes. Remember, what is good for the superintendent is also good for the teachers and other employees of school systems and government.

I agree with the points made about doing a fair comparison of compensation by looking at school systems of similar sizes across the county. Salaries are set by the market. Expectations are extremely high for people in these positions. While many of us would like the salaries, we would not want the headaches, responsibilities, and resulting gray hairs that go along with it.

Great research by confusedteacher! We can draw our own conclusions from the data presented. IMO, this might make a ‘Pulitzer’ prize article if additional correlations can be made. FWIW, I heard that Sequoyah MS was in a similar situation.

By jim d

May 16, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

Patti,

Since it sorta begs the question, it sorta begs an answer.

So here goes my best shot at explaining it.

It’s by design. School systems here in Ga. know that by confusing the numbers and treating the press like mushrooms (keeping you in the dark and feeding you excrement) that you generally will just go away allowing them to continue spending tax dollars with no real accountability.

Gwinnett’s system is a classic example. Being the largest school system in the state and wielding the largest budget, well over a billion dollars annually (yes that’s a “B”), they continue to spend without outside state audits that might catch much of the misappropriations that I’m confident occur. As I understand it,laws here allow for the county to use a third party auditing firm to do a self-audit. Oddly, Gwinnett can use the same third party firm to audit that they use every day for accounting purposes. Kinda like the fox watching the hen house, wouldn’t you say?

How much real accountability would they face if they gave you (the press) actual numbers or subjected themselves to a full State Audit?

Thanks for the job you do and by all means, keep after them.

By MrLiberty

May 16, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Why is anyone making comparisons to CEOs. CEO’s work for companies that must actually earn their business and have as their only source of income the voluntarily given price that their customers are willing to pay.

Government school employees including Superintendant are all payed from taxes that are stolen from private individuals and companies within the designated geographical area. When you actually “EARN” your salary, rather than steal it, you should be able to garner more money.

By C.R.H.

May 16, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

MrLiberty, your droning on & on about the “theft” of your tax dollars is played out! I don’t like that my tax dollars are “stolen” from me to pay for tax breaks for oil companies…or to pay for grants to research how caw farts contribute to global warming. So all I gotta say is you need to please step away from the crack pipe!

By jim d

May 17, 2006 08:33 AM | Link to this

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

So you don’t like your money stolen for a kids education. Get OVER it.

Have you ever had a child in a public school? Ever attend one yourself? Ever had a family member receive a public education? Assuming so let’s do the math.

Let’s just assume you pay $200.00 a month in school taxes or a total of $2400.00 a year. With the cost of educating a child today running about $10,000.00 a year, the cost to provide a kid with a k-12 education would be around $130,000. So at the rate of $2400.00 a year it would take you a little over 54 years to pay for one child’s education.

Have you had more than one family member receive a public education?

Sounds like a bargain to me.

By scott

May 17, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

United Healthcare CEO received 1.5 BILLION in stock options on top of his salary. As the health insurance cost sky-rocket or are taken away why not complain about ONE PERSON receives so much compensation.