Get Schooled

By Jeff

May 15, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

My high level class has their own books. My low level class does not.

HOWEVER, as I said in regards to the original post:

Students ALWAYS have printed material: their notes…

By meghan

May 15, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

Hold on, I graduated from a Gwinnett high school 10 years ago (scary) and am a little confused. Are you saying students don’t always get books for all of the classes they are taking? I am trying to figure this out. I don’t remember getting workbooks (that ends in elementary, right?), but textbooks are required, right????? I must be misreading this….

By Jeff

May 15, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

Meghan,

I have a class set of books, but I do not have enough for every student to have his/ her own. From a teaching perspective, it makes things even more challenging, as I must both lecture AND give class time to do the assignment.

By EW

May 15, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Patti -

Can you find out if all grade level results for the CRCT are being mailed out this week? Just want to know whats coming in the mail!

Thanks

By decaturparent

May 15, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

Whaaaat? At $10K plus per student, they can’t come up with textbooks for every kid????? I think that I am going to have to go somewhere and have a primal scream now.

I must have been living in a cave all my life, but I assumed that 8th graders would have textbooks. Holy cow!

By V for Vendetta

May 15, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure about the school situation (maybe it’s a dung heap), but the CRCT is a joke. If you cant pass it, I highly doubt it is just the school’s fault.

By Zoe

May 15, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

State law states every child should be issued a book for any course enrolled in. If your child did not have a book, that is a school system issue and should have been addressed months ago. I know at our school we are constantly reminded EACH child should be issued a book and teachers are not to rely on class sets. Students are to bring books each and every day and take them home to study. Parents, if you are just now realizing your child was not issued a book, where have you been? This is an issue that should have been resolved in August. Complaining now, after the CRCTs, is like closing the barn door after the horse was stolen.

By jim

May 15, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

If you are just realizing that it is peculiar that your kid does not have a book for an 8th Grade Class and you have not been complained for the past 6 months to get him a book….

Your child may have failed the CRCT, but you failed your Child.

By teach overseas

May 15, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this

If your kid failed the CRCT- you have bigger problems on your hands than lack of textbooks. The CRCT requires MINIMAL mathematical skills to do and even less to pass. Failing the CRCT means that your kid can barely function in math and certainly NEEDS to be in summer school and more.

Most teachers pretty much know who is going to pass and who is not- did you ever contact the teacher/go to parent conferences or in other ways make an effort to find out how your child was doing BEFORE the test? Are parents out there getting report cards with all A’s and glowing comments from the teacher and then are suddenly blindsided with a failed CRCT??? Don’t think so. Before you start passing blame around to the school- ask yourself what you did to make sure your kid was where he needed to be.

By dan

May 16, 2006 08:19 AM | Link to this

It is typical that a parent would play the blame game at the end of the year. I see it all the time. It is something that we blog about here all the time. Not all kids pass the test and if they don’t then they have to go to summer school. That is what happens, end of story. Maybe the teacher did fail your child but you are now just realizing that?????????? Typical, I think that you should get a lawyer. MAybe you and the Peachtree Ridge mom can split the retainer

By Leia

May 16, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this

jim - You hit the nail on the head! Why didn’t the parent show any concern in August, September, October, and so on, when the child didn’t have a book??!!

By M Benson

May 16, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this

Before you all throw me under that bus, let me start by saying this… This all took place BEFORE the CRCT tests, NOT since I got the phone call today. And the only thing they wanted on the phone, was to ask if I wanted them to tell him or if I wanted to do it.

I started having issues with his all his classes when I noticed him being lazy in classes. I push my kids to do the best they can, I have been an involved parent, so I do know when my child is being lazy. I have NEVER said a cross word about the school system or any teachers up until this year. I have known since school started that there were not enough math books for all the students. What I didn’t know, until I asked for the name of the math book…so I could purchase one… is that the teachers at this school do not use the math books at all. The school system purchases books every 7 yrs… the ciriculum has CHANGED TWICE in these 7 yrs, rending the books useless, this is what I was told by the principal. I called the school board, I was told that every student was to be issued a math book. So they issued the books, would anyone like to take a guess at the number of times that book has been used. NONE! I have been out of school for 23 yrs, and I need a little more than notes from an 8th grade student to understand what he is learning so that I can help him. I have been on my son all year about doing all his class work and NOT socializing. When his grade did not go up at progress report time, after I asked the teachers to please let me know when he was not doing his work or talking in class, I was not happy. I got an email back from his Math teacher.. telling he had done ALL his class work… this is the email I recieved about his class work… BTW the test that counted for so much, they brought his grade down was given by a sub. Not an excuse, but I know how kids act with subs, that was poor timing for that test.

“His 5 grades for this grading period are 6 out of 6, 2.8 out of 4, 21 out of 22, 90, and 30. Those were the only 5 grades he should have had when grades were due last week. The 30 is the test grade.
Please let me know if you need additional information.”

As I always do, I hold myself and my son responsible first, but I do feel that the school system is letting children down… when a teacher only has 5 grades for a grading period, I feel that teacher is also being lazy, but afer all, that is all that is required of her… a grade a week… per student… is all that is expected of teachers. I wish I had recorded the conversation I had with the principal, I had to call 2 times and then call the school board in order to get his teachers to tell me what he was or wasn’t doing in class.

And this is just Math… for the first 6 weeks of school he had 3 or 4 different subs for Reading class, because they had no teacher at all. I had a chance to proctor in the 8th grade earlier this yr, and it was in the Reading teachers class. The teacher they hired is a good teacher, but he is from another country and it was very hard for me to understand him, and I know its been hard for the students in his reading classes.

And to everyone who thinks the Math portion of the CRCT was a breeze this yr, try again. The students had to make a 300 on the math to pass, he made a 277. I asked what portion of the math he had problems in, and the person who called me couldn’t tell me, what he did tell me was that it was probably the problem solving, that tends to be what it always is. SO, my question is this, if they know this from past tests, why don’t they focus more learning on problem solving.
The county I live in expected this, why else would they have already hired 11 teachers, in anticipation, for 8 graders who did not pass, between 2 middle schools for summer school.
I know I have been long winded, but I am frustrated, the whole time I was hard on my son over his grades, I should have also been hard on the school sooner than what I was. I have a habit of always taking the side of teachers and the school. I was very mistaken this year in doing that, and for that I do hold myself responsible.
The idea of not using social promotion is great, but the CRCT is not the answer, not as it is now. Have a good day everyone :)

By Robert

May 16, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this

Although I teach high school, it is my understanding that this middle school CRCT is extremely simple.

The bottom line for any one’s education is that individual. If that individual is a minor, as in the case of a middle school student, then the bottom line responsibility is the parent….. plain and simple. A school - public, private, religous, whatever - can only provide information and present the information. Schools can do back flips in order to get the information into one’s head. It is none-the-less the student’s responsibility to get it into their head and make it stick. We have lost sight of this fact.

Stop blaming teachers and the school.

By M Benson

May 16, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

I am only blaming the school and the teacher when it comes to the material PROVIDED to the students in order to LEARN AND RETAIN the curriculum that has changed. How many of us had math books that we were expected to USE when we were in 8th grade?

By SET

May 16, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

I think the posters above are correct in not throwing a pity party for the negligent parent.

If little Johnny can’t pass that test Johnny and Parents have the problem. Others do pass. Johnny is fortunate that there is a summer school for him to go to and the parent should be happy it is (so far) available. There are those who don’t believe that the taxpayers have an obligation to provide remedial education for families who neglected to do their schoolwork in the first place.

It’s always amusing to me to see parents assume that their dull child is passing when anyone who cared could quickly determine that the child was struggling and falling behind. I had a cousin who in high school didn’t have a book in his bedroom. His grades at the local public school were B’s and some C’s. His parents (and mine) were shocked, shocked! when his SAT’s came back in the bottom 25% which disqualified him from any good college.

When this was discussed at out dinner table I was surprised at their surprise. As a HS senior the only reading material this cousin would look at was Sports Illustrated - and that was for the photos. Anyone who cared to notice could see this.

This was more than 30 years ago and I still remember the conversation. The adults were outraged and as always took no responsibility for anything, expecting the school to raise the child.

That cousin is now a public school teacher. (after a failed career in industry) He does have perserverence, he just doesn’t test well I suppose.

By Sabrina

May 16, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

I am a parent, with a child in Gwinnett and I was shocked at how students are not encouraged to bring text books home every night. I literally had to force my daughters teacher into allowing her to bring home books every night. I was told that worksheets were the standard, because the textbook was heavy and they didn’t want students getting ahead of others. That statement alone, made me angry. That happened 3 years ago, but I see the same pattern with each teacher I encounter.

My child is the only child in her class, who brings “MOST” of her textbooks home each night and weekends.

How can they expect parents to be able to help their children, if they can’t have the examples in the textbook?

It’s definitely the teacher and schools fault, when children are encouraged not to bring the textbooks home. I don’t want my child to have back problems, but I would like to be able to see an entire chapter being covered and not just bits and pieces.

Parent with Gifted child.

By Jeff

May 16, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

Benson,

I’m a HS teacher right now, I’ll be going to a 6th grade position next year. But let me explain some things:

Principals want teachers to go away from a strict “by the book lecture” style of teaching. Therefore you get more projects/ worksheets. The 8th grade teacher in Cherokee county that I worked with while in college actually was going to a completely bookless curriculum, and this teacher is National Board Certified! I myself am going to be in an electronic classroom, and I will do my best to use the book as sparingly as possible!

Sub days are PERFECT days to do tests. I leave the sub my notes that ANY talking is considered cheating, and all the sub has to do is jot down the names of any talkers. Easier on them that way, and I know my kids aren’t giving the subs problems.

Grading: I typically do a completion assignment every day. However, many teachers do one assignment per week that they actually take the time to grade. I full well acknowledge two things: a) My grades are obviosuly inflated and b) their grades are a MUCH more accurate reflection of what theirt students actually know.

Parent contact: While I try to be very good about contacting parents, typically you’re only gonna here from me when something happens in class or your kid is suddently taking a turn for the worse in their grades. My stance with the parents that want me to contact them: I have 120 kids. I got no problem telling you your kids grade if you contact me every week, but I aint gonna remember to contact you. YOU take the initiative… I have MORE than enough to do anyway!

By Jeff

May 16, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

To all parents:

I don’t know how other math teachers work, but I can GAURANTEE you something about this one:

If your child copies everything on my board, they will have the information that they need and that you can follow, with or without a book in their hands.

By Leia

May 16, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

M Benson - I’m sorry, but, the Math portion of the CRCT is a joke! If your son couldn’t pass it, he definitely needs remediation. My daughters didn’t get a math book (that they could bring home) this year either, but, on orientation night - I got the ISBN number and bought one for the house from amazon.com! And, it was only about $3.00!

I know that the educational system is flawed, but, you cannot allow that to be your crutch when it comes to your job to be a proactive parent.

Just be grateful that he is getting another opportunity in summer school, because next year is high school, and we don’t have time to teach him basic skills. Try looking at his “study” habits, his nutrition, his bedtime, etc. What is it that you can do to help your child?

By Sabrina

May 16, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

I don’t care, just give my child the ability to take the book home and I can take it from there.

I don’t care if you never use the book in class, just make sure that what you teach can be found in the book and all will be well.

All teachers should encourage and promote using the book while doing homework. What is the harm??????????

By meghan

May 16, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

It is hard to believe that kids are expected to write the entire class period jotting down everything they see on the board and hear. When I was in school I learned best by listening, absorbing material and taking sparse notes. This allowed me to ask questions as they arose instead of going home and trying to make sense of notes written quickly to not miss anything said that may be important. Good note taking is a skill. If schools are no longer giving textbooks to all students, do they at least have notetaking 101 every fall to help students?

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

May 16, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this

Way to GO!! It’s another day of “it’s not the teacher or the schools fault”, but ONLY the PARENT.

Lack of school books and not allowing children to bring their textbook home. WHAT A JOKE!!!!!

My daughter came home with the “Worksheet syndrome”, but I quickly dealt with it.

By Manny

May 16, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this

Sabrina - what Jeff is trying to tell you is that we are encouraged not to rely solely on the book, so some of what we teach cannot be found in them!

If your child takes good notes, that is WAY more effective that lugging that book home everyday.

And, by the way - I like how you signed your note - Parent with gifted child. If she’s so gifted, she shouldn’t need to carry ALL of her books home everyday so you can help her!! Mine are gifted too, and quite frankly, they rarely need their books. Their note-taking skills are awesome.

By luvs2teach

May 16, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

M Benson - In some ways I am sorry about what happened to your child - I think how the system handled the book situation wasn’t the best. The math textbook my county uses has both a parent workbook and an online support site. At the very least, your county should’ve suggested some resources for you to use at home - even a workbook from The School Box. They also should’ve told you about the practice tests you can access online.

Because of curriculum changes, I wasn’t able to issue a science text this year. I always made sure to send home chapter summaries of the key ideas - this was in addition to notes they were given in class. Jeff is right in that many counties DON’T want us teaching the old-fashioned by-the-textbook way.

As to the number of grades the teacher had, I can’t say - Jeff’s explanation seems plausible - but you probably want to contact the teacher to know for sure. I can say that between Spring Break and testing, I had fewer grades for the last progress report than I typically would have at this point in the school year. I average 3 to 4 per week, but I teach science, not math.

Now, as to why I’m not sorry for your child - he was probably told many, many, many times this year how important this test was, and what would happen if he didn’t pass it. Well, look what happened! You said that you had been struggling to help him maintain this year - it’s pretty typical for 8th graders to go through this period of laziness. Some don’t believe it will happen to them. Well, it did. Best lesson learned, IMHO. That, BTW, is the parent in me talking, and not the teacher.

Best of luck to you and your child - hopefully this will be one lesson he won’t need repeated!

By Dekalb Educator

May 16, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

I am quickly jumping in to make a comment about the text books being sent home. I teach at an elementary school and the “tone” here has been….Don’t send the books home because they barely make it back to school.

I can count on 1 hand the times that I sent home a text book last year and PRAYED that they would come back. It really causes a problem because when they did not come back the next day or the next..I could not continue with the assignments the way that I wanted because of the lack of text books and somethings should NOT be group work…

rant over…

By Totally Upset

May 16, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this

I am totally upset. I have an Honor Roll student that missed the Math test by 6 points. She was stressed out over the test and she studied everyday. She was so confident that she had passed the test. When i told her the news - she was very upset. She could not believe that she had failed. Her response was “Mama I don’t belong in summer school.” Honestly, she doesn’t. What is the purpose of pushing your kids to do their best in school when everything is based on ONE test.

By SET

May 16, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

Totally Upset::

“What is the purpose of pushing your kids to do their best in school when everything is based on ONE test.”?

Because that’s how life works.

Being unprepared at a crucial moment can cost you your job, your career, your money, your health, your life.

Things get tougher not easier after grade school and high school. We make these kids endure high stakes testing because life is a high stakes test.

By teach overseas

May 16, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

Totally Upset-

Life is made up of many ONE tests. And like the CRCT, most have multiple chances to take them again.

But- if she failed the test- even by ONE point- she still needs to be in summer school. She doesn’t know the material well enough to well in high school.

You don’t want her driving on 285 next to someone who failed his drivers test, you don’t want to be cut open by a doctor who failed his test, you don’t want your taxes done by someone who failed his test, you don’t even want your nails done by someone who failed the test. And when you sue, you don’t want your lawyer to have failed his test.

ONE test events are important and part of life.

By luvs2teach

May 16, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this

Amazed - please read my comments - I didn’t blame the parent - I blamed the school (for not providing proper resources, text or otherwise) and the student (for not doing what he should’ve - his grades were an indicator of that)! Although you’re right, I did not blame the teacher, not knowing enough about the teacher to be able to do so. Some of us can see more than one side to the story.

Sabrina - you wrote, “I don’t care if you never use the book in class, just make sure that what you teach can be found in the book and all will be well”. We are told to “teach the curriculum, not the text” - I have entire sections of my curriculum that ARE NOT IN MY BOOK. I do my best to make sure that kids go home with resources, but it is a challenge when I know those resources don’t make it out of my room - I know because I’m picking them up off my floor.

Meghan - not all classes are just note-taking, however, in math, typically the teacher is doing demonstration problems to show students how to solve them. This DOES require writing down - otherwise, you will have no model to go from when you are trying to solve the problems on your own. So much of math is learning the problem solving patterns.

To all parents - most schools, at the beginning of the year, will give you copies of the curriculum if you ask (or you can find them online). The best time to take action is EARLY. DON’T WAIT UNTIL IT’S TOO LATE!!! If your child doesn’t have a book, ask why, and if there are other resources that can be used, but do it EARLY!!!

ALL of us have responsibility (remember the 3-legged stool analogy?) and communication is the best tool.

By Karen Armsby

May 16, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Totally Upset, It appears that there is a big disconnect between the CRCT assessment and the grading at your daughter’s school. How can she can be on the Honor Roll for her good grades, yet cannot pass the minimal skills math CRCT test? Did she just have a bad day testing? Or is the problem that the teacher is not really teaching the material, and is just handing out good grades for your daughter’s “effort” and not for her performance?

By meghan

May 16, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

luvs2teach-

I am aware you need examples to show you how to solve math problems. I am also aware that at least some math textbooks show you these examples and work through them step by step with explanations. I attended a private elementary/middle and was in a small group that due to limited resources (only two classes for each grade and thus only two class options taught) opted to self teach algebra 1 with a teacher who could answer questions in her limited spare time. The textbook was enough to get all six of us through and at our different high schools the following year we excelled in geometry.

My surprise is at the fact that kids are not given textbooks and dependent on notes taken in class from a teachers lesson. There are many variables that can so throw a student off in very important subjects, a students inablity to take good notes, a missed day or two due to illness, a sub, a teachers off day, disruption in the class, etc…

Anyways, it does sound like anyone who fails needs to be in summer school to learn those basic skills so as not to be further behind in high school. Why would we want our children to miss a chance to keep up with basic skills?

By V for Vendetta

May 16, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Karen- You’re totally right. How can you be HONOR ROLL and not pass the CRCT. Hate to break it to her, but the CRCT is a JOKE. You need to take a long hard look at what is considered “honor roll” at your school if that’s the case.

Amazed- Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are all about not taking responsibility for anything. We blame parents for everything. Especially parents who wait until the last two weeks of school to bring up something like that. Wow, seems like she really cares. You know, being involved in your childs education is a full time job. Just like teaching! Imagine that.

By Sabrina

May 16, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

Manny,

No one expects everything to be in the book, but it is a resource and a tool. My child is gifted based upon how the state and school district classify students who are above their peers. And, Yes, Gifted students do read their books, even if they are capable of performing at a higher standard.

I’m assuming you are a teacher, since you choose to attack my classification as PARENT of GIFTED child, but to say that a Gifted child shouldn’t carry all of her books home so that a parent can help her is just plain “DUMB” for an educator. I didn’t classify or push the school system to select my child for the Gifted program, it was done solely on her academic merit. I do admit to helping her get to that level, it’s my job as her parent.

I will always require my child to bring home her text books, (no teacher, school or unconcerned parent) will make me do otherwise. If my child were failing you would be calling me an unconcerned parent, with uneducated children who lack discipline.

A Great Teacher and school system would encourage a child to take home their books weekly, if not daily. Why waste taxpayers money, purchasing textbooks you don’t believe is important enough to use in class or outside of class?

By M Benson

May 16, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

V for Vendetta, This is NOT something that has come up in the last 2 weeks. This has been going on since I noticed my sons grades slipping. Because a student struggles in one area of Math does NOT mean he struggles in all areas of Math. And when I saw that he was having problems and also being lazy at the same time, I jumped on it, from this end first. BUT I can’t help him if I don’t have something to work from. I was so hard on my son, thinking he was not bringing home the printed material from the teacher. The reason I asked for the name of the math book was to purchase one so I could help him with what he was having problems with. BUT when the book they issue has nothing to do with what they are learning, its hard as a parent to HELP. And when I asked this teacher for a some printed material so I could help him, she said in her email, that she would try and put a packet together for me. I got that packet.. 2 pages of problems and NO explantion on how to work those problems. This is an on going battle that started well BEFORE the CRCT tests.

By Robert

May 16, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

Sorry guys, but even if the school refuses to give a book to your child, that does not excuse anything. Bottom line is that the child’s education is up to the child and the parent. You cannot and should not refuse to accept this responsibility.

If you do not like the materials (or lack thereof) that a school provides, then FIND YOUR OWN!

Whatever happened to personal accountability? Whatever happened to working for what you want? Stop thinking that life will give you everything!

Kudo’s to the parent that purchased a math book through amazon.com for $3 for their child!

I do, personally, question as to why schools do not encourage students to bring books home, however. Maybe it is a cost issue and every child does not have an assigned book? But regardless, the education is still up to the child and parent. Do not hand over the future of your child to anyone!

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

May 16, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

Luv2Teach - my comments were not directed at any specific person, TODAY. In addition, I read Sabrina’s comments and I don’t think she was asking anyone to teach to the textbook, but to allow the children the textbook as a resource. All those years ago, when I was in school - ONLY the failing students did not take their textbook home. The teachers did not teach to the textbook, they assigned problems out of it.

V for Vendetta - yada, yada, yada, yada……. I can agree that she should have spent the entire year keeping track of her child’s situation. However, Sabrina’s comment hit home for me (no textbooks, but worksheets). Having to fight the school to rid my child of the “I can’t take my textbook home”, because the “Teacher” doesn’t think it’s necessary syndrome. That’s one instance when I had to assert my authority as the parent. If she had said, she didn’t have a textbook I would have really blown a gasket.

Why should I have to assert authority, just to get the teacher to say it’s okay for my child to bring home a textbook? Not all of them, I’m a stickler for Math, Science, Social Studies. I’m having a hard time understanding this concept.

By Manny

May 16, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

Sabrina - I was really just laughing at you because you addressed yourself as Parent of Gifted Child!

I hope the two of you do well on her homework!

By Manny

May 16, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

Sabrina - I was really just laughing at you because you addressed yourself as Parent of Gifted Child!

I hope the two of you do well on her homework!

By Leia

May 16, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

Why are you struggling with 8th grade math? You should be able to help him without seeing “instructions” on how to solve a problem!

By jim d

May 16, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Robert,

I agree 99% and I still own books bought for my child’s use at home. We did this for several reasons, but that’s another blog subject.

But I too own books that were to be used in class, that some teachers didn’t use, which made it difficult to assist my child with concepts not covered in the book that were being taught. Fortunately I was able to go elsewhere to pick up teaching materials that covered those concepts.

Indeed this is a parent’s responsibility. But by the same token I believe the school system should use the texts that they are basing the curriculum on, or at least provide parents with some teaching aids on concepts not covered in a book that children aren’t allowed to remove from the classroom.

By Leia

May 16, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

V - You have to “assert your authority” to get what you want sometimes because we (teachers) are following directions from our superiors. Don’t always think that the decisions are coming from us! If it were strictly up to your child’s teacher, do you honestly think that he/she cares whether or not your child lugs around a math textbook? I’d venture to say - no!

Additionally, you have to trust that sometimes (not all the time!), we know what’s best for your child in terms of educational resources. I know that if I say “study your notes” and they choose to glance at the textbook, they are toast!

By Jeff

May 16, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

The way I understand it, in my new job the curriculum is based on about 5 different books… do you REALLY want your 10 yr old lugging around THAT many books for my ONE class????

By hs sped

May 16, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

The CRCT is pretty easy (I used to teach middle school), and usually, the only kids to not pass were the really low special ed kids and the slow learners. Unfortunately, the slow learners will always be among us (much like the poor) and we will have to come to terms (as parents and teachers) with expectations thereof. And so, M Benson, it’s possible that your child was just having a bad day, or got off track while filling in the ovals, or maybe, there is another reason. Look into it right away. Remediation is out there and you need to start now, if that is the case. Good luck to you from someone who has been there.

By hs sped

May 16, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

The CRCT is pretty easy (I used to teach middle school), and usually, the only kids to not pass were the really low special ed kids and the slow learners. Unfortunately, the slow learners will always be among us (much like the poor) and we will have to come to terms (as parents and teachers) with expectations thereof. And so, M Benson, it’s possible that your child was just having a bad day, or got off track while filling in the ovals, or maybe, there is another reason. Look into it right away. Remediation is out there and you need to start now, if that is the case. Good luck to you from someone who has been there.

By jim d

May 16, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

No Robert, I wouldn’t. that touches on our reasons for buying some of the books. What I found over the years is that some schools will work with parents that would like an extra set of books at home so their children don’t become physically strained toting a 60lb ruck all day. At several schools we were allowed to purchase a full set of books for home use, selling them back to the school at year end. This was an option offered by some schools and unfortunately not taken by many parents.

By jim d

May 16, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

Sorry Jeff, didn’t mean to call you Robt. Maybe I should check my sugar level today.

By SET

May 16, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

I thought about my earlier post and decided to add something. OK I know I’m in CA and this may not apply to your state(s). And I’m more than 30 years out of high school.

But in my experience grading in elementry school is very subjective. This means that schools and teachers can give passing grades to minority students so that all parties can avoid facing reality.

If the kid has lazy parents and is lazy herself/himself the higher grades avoids dealing with it. If the kid is dull the higher grades keeps anyone from dealing with it. If the kid and his mother are prone to temper tantrums, a higher grade avoids the tantrum. And it keeps them on the sports teams.

In my experience the black students have higher grades than justifiable from their objective scoring. It seems that the teachers and schools are so grateful they haven’t rioted or something that they bump up the grades. Plus in the schools populated by blacks there is a lower average competition - although that is changing as blacks are no longer the majority in their own schools (they’re being swamped in CA by more competitive E Indian, SE Asian and Mexican students).

ANY objective or competitive testing, no matter how simple, is judgment day. Our CA High School Exit exam has a 96.5% white pass rate. It is a joke. Essentially the only white students failing are the head injury cases and drug addict students. It’s a “Bell Curve” demonstration project since it is a test given at age 18 with a pass level set at that of an average white child at age 14 - the age of full IQ.

Of course an Alameda County Superior Court Judge recently issued a statewide court order barring the exit exam from being implemented for the 1st time this year out of concern for - guess who - who were having big problems passing the test.

I believe that a higher number of the minority students can learn 8th grade reading and math (although with greater difficulty). But the schools do need to put a boot to their rear ends to get results. Since nobody wants to fight with these kids or their mothers - at least nobody orthodox in the educational establishment - there is no improvement yet in sight.

We have tried tightening grade requirements to be on a football teams and other such things - but grade inflation tends to keep everything status quo.

Serious consequences well advertised, backed up by objective testing - helps performance. I support the mandatory summer school waiver test as well as entrance exams for every school. They are our best hope to keep real pressure on these kids. They must be made to read 8th grade level. All of them, even the minorities.

I have said that NCLB has a hidden agenda in the racial data collection and reporting. It will provide a sensational demonstration of the “Bell Curve” effect in racial IQ distribution. How many years of this will it take before people honestly deal with the Bell Curve effect? We can’t keep saying we don’t know why this gap problem is here.

I’m not saying I’m happy about the Bell Curve problem, or that I created it, or anything like that. So don’t blame the messenger. But it’s real and we can measure it. So what are we going to do to help the (average) minority kids compete in this Brave New World?

By Jeff

May 16, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

Jim,

I’m all for parents going out and buying their own copies of the books I use. Matter of fact (and again, other teachers may not do this) I put all the info on the top of my syllabi. (Title, authors, publisher, year, etc) At the same time, however, I must work within what the county and/ or school gives me. Therefore, if I only have a class set, that is all I can use.

BTW: Even though I only have a class set, my books KEEP getting stolen. I finally developed a system that has cut back on that DRASTICALLY, but it still happens!!

By jim d

May 16, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this

Here’s the problem as I see it Jeff,

MATH, where one concept build on another, generally in some type of sequential order in a text book.I use math every day and often find myself reverting to texts for quicky refreshers. Like I’ve said for years “I don’t need to know everything, I just need to know where to go for the correct answers.” That being said, having a text book available at home has always made it easier for me to assist my child in math concepts being taught by the teacher, without confusing the child with shortcuts I’ve learned over the years. Thus allowing my child to fully understand the concept and gain the knowledge. Some parents get in trouble by teaching the shortcuts and the child never truly learns the concept. Know what i mean?

By Beccaann

May 16, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

I wish I had books and workbooks to send home with my students. I ask for them but they are not supplied for me to use. I am one of those teachers who has to use the board and worksheets.

By Jeff

May 16, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

Jim,

Trust me, I know all too well. Particularly in my advanced classes I get kids that learn the shortcuts on their own while I’m teaching the “normal” way. Then they expect to be allowed to use their shortcuts on my assignments! (Not a problem unless I tell them to show work, in which case I’m checking the method more than the answer.) Biggest prob I’ve found with this though is that when kids have a difficult time understanding thr “normal” way and an advanced student wants to show the shortcut on the board, the kids that are struggling COMPLETELY lost, sometimes even beyond repair!

By jim d

May 16, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

Probably just as well Becca,

With the tremendous presssure placed on teachers by Fed, State and local Government as well as by the school system itself to produce test scores, I’m sure you’d jump around so bad in the book that students would have a problem knowing where they were anyway.

ZEIGEN Sie verbesserte TEST-KERBEN um jeden Preis

By jim d

May 16, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

I know well too. My kid does advanced junk in his head quicker than I can with a calculator. Took me two years to convince him he would have to show his work to get credit for a correct answer. High school seems to be a different story. they can use calculators on much of it and only the answer matters. Whats up with that?

By Teacher too

May 16, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Who cares if they use the shortcut? Those who can should be allowed to and those who can’t will have to figure it out. The “method” you mention was obviously used in the “shortcut” to get the answer.

Also, relying on all note taking…ask students what they learned after a day of note taking. They’ve learned to copy from the board-NOT what was being presented.

You’re full of hot air, really.

By Teacher too

May 16, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Who cares if they use the shortcut? Those who can should be allowed to and those who can’t will have to figure it out. The “method” you mention was obviously used in the “shortcut” to get the answer.

Also, relying on all note taking…ask students what they learned after a day of note taking. They’ve learned to copy from the board-NOT what was being presented.

You’re full of hot air, really.

By jim d

May 16, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Teach too,

You might be right.Hadn’t looked at it that way. My son had a biology teacher last year that handed the students a preprinted notes sheet everyday which allowed them the full amount of class time to focus on studies. Seemed to work pretty well.

By Jeff

May 16, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Teacher Too,

Typically the “shortcut” may not be valid for all situations (and if you are a math teacher at the HS level you should already know this), whereas the “normal” way is. Therefore if a student wants to use a shortcut in my class, they must show a valid proof that it works in all situations first. You want to work it differently in your class, by all means, feel free.

Jim,

About the calculators: A lot of HS math teachers I know have two parts to any given test: calculator and non. Non-calculator is typically shorter and slightly easier than calculator. I know that with Geometry EOCTs graphing calculators are not allowed, so I don’t let my geometry kids use them at all. However, I have also found that MANY kids don’t know basic multiplication/ division (and in some cases addition/ subtraction). If I have anything to say about it, rest assured that when they leave my 6th grade math class they won’t have to worry about using a calculator for basic arithmetic! (Though granted, trig functions and square roots a calculator is REALLY nice for, among other things!!)

By V for Vendetta

May 16, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

All finger pointing aside…

Math is a sticky subject, one that I am all too glad I do not teach. However, I have seen a lot of people going on and on (and on and on) about being able to take the book home and study from it, etc, etc. Fine, whatever. What I do NOT understand, are the people who are so against the “taking notes from the board” system. By 8th grade, I was taking notes almost exclusively from the board and the overhead. In high school, the trend continued, and I took almost all my notes from the board/overhead and was expected to keep those notes in an organized and easy to reference manner for studying purposes.

Amazingly, I was able to comply with these oh so stringent requirements and I made it through the subject I most despised with decent grades. The shocking part is, when I got to college, classes were taught in the EXACT SAME MANNER. The book merely served as reference material for the massive amount of notes we copied DIRECTLY FROM THE TEACHER. 99.9% of the time, the notes the teacher gave us were enough to study on their own, and I didn’t even buy the book for that class. So quit your complaining about having books at home and holding your kids hands until they are 25. Geez! It’s not wonder most of the kids these days get to high school and still act like they are five years old. They cant do anything for themselves!

By SNY

May 16, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

SET,

Are you a racist? Because your comments are stupid as hll? You really pssed me off with that.

By Jeff

May 16, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

V,

If I had that kind of power, I’d offer you a job in South GA in a heartbeat! Once again I say: AMEN!

By Manny

May 16, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

SNY - the sad part is, SET is a self-loathing African-American!

By jim d

May 16, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

“V”

He had one of those teachers last year too. Had an algebra book they never once opened. Example and note taking in class taught everything. I was amazed he passed that one. He hates taking notes or more precisely, writing. Give him a laptop and he can keep right with you though. I think the only reason he passed that course was his ability to remember something once he’s done it, and let’s face it algebra isn’t that tuff.

By M Benson

May 16, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

V… there is nothing at all wrong with note taking as long as there is some kind of material to refer back to if need be, besides the notes… and that is not happening. A friend of mine teaches college prep classes to high school English students. I asked this of her months ago, she hands out study guides, she also has them copy from the board, she also has books for the kids to fall back on. Imagaine that!!!!

By SET

May 16, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

SNY and Manny:

My family can trace our history back into slavery. I wouldn’t trade my ancestry with anyone else. Your comments as to my personality are what I’d expect from those who cannot deal with the issues at hand. You must be young.

Maybe the differences we have are generational. I was a baby in the 1950’s. I am old enought to have lived when every generation was expected to do better than the ones before. You may not be able to imagine a world when nearly every black family grouping around was a husband, wife and their children. I lived in that world once. Or where the black, white or integrated public schools had jack booted discipline and nearly everybody (including the minorities) graduated with a driver’s licence, able to read and write at 8th grade level, and could qualify for the military. Murders were sensational and killer were swiftly executed. California only had 4 prisons.

If you are much younger than me you have no idea of the world that has been lost and who was most damaged. Liberal Public policy did this. And it’s about to get much worse.

Your posturing about my motives are typical of those who believe this mess we have on our hands just happened.

Do I believe that the “Bell Curve” and related research explains worldwide disparities between the haves and the have nots? Yes. I also believe that whites don’t win Olympic Track meets.

Do I believe that minority kids can do better in school? Yes. But not if the kids (or those acting like them) are running the schools.

The races are different - big news. Given a particular situation they races will present different average results on just about every physical/mental test( try swimming). Not news either.

Deal with it.

My extended family is spread across the west, having come west with the Black Migration of WWII. The 100 years before WWII we were spread from St Louis to Ohio to Tenn. We’ve done fine, mainly because the generation before me made the changes necessary to re-establish themselves on the other side of the country and to push it academically. My cousins, siblings and myself take back seats to no one. And yes, having gone to integrated schools and survived the experience we don’t concern ourselves with what anyone wants us to say or think - least of all ghetto interests. If we’d conformed to what lower class ideas of being black was - we’d be running the NAACP instead of making a living in mainstream professions. And yes, my generation in this extended family have been marrying interracially as a rule. (Which includes African Immigrants as well as every other racial group) Do we need your approval? Do we care?

I see the doors closing behind me on black students as they are spoiled and indulged to the point where they are no longer competitive. That bothers me. Yes we don’t have as many candidates per 1000 for the good things in life. I don’t want to lose those that are on hand. Do you doubt this point? Been to your HMO lately and seen the Indian Drs?? (Not complaining - I have one.. but still..)

We don’t agree. But, I’m Old. Still my family (the decendants of my grandparents) will be just fine (rich). Maybe I just want something left of the world I grew up in. And that means the public schools have to do something with these (overwhelmingly minority) kids.

By SNY

May 16, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

Manny,

I don’t care what color he is. That makes no difference to me. I care that he is generalizing people. You find slackers in every culture. I am a black woman, married 2 kids, college degree (going back for my masters in 2 years), hard working person who could not pass a standardized test to save her life. Does it mean that I am less than desirable because I cannot pass a standardized test? Hll no!! It means that I cannot pass a dmned test. I got extremely lucky on the SAT (1420). I bet I couldn’t do it again. I didn’t have a good breakfast before the test, I stayed up late so-called studying, and I didn’t think I had a clue when I was answering those questions. My husband on the other hand is a genuis. He’s black too. A manager for FEDEX and we expect our children to follow in our footsteps.

I know many, many people just like us (black people) who care about their children and who themselves are smart, articulate black people. So, the next time you want to put down your race, think about the fact that there are alot of people that look just like you who are not what you just described. You are not the only black person who overcame!!

By Manny

May 16, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

SET - I was born in 1956. So, I’m nobody’s “baby”! All you’ve done is further illustrate my opinion of you being a self-loathing African-American.

Have a nice day!

By SNY

May 16, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

Manny,

I don’t care what color he is. That makes no difference to me. I care that he is generalizing people. You find slackers in every culture. I am a black woman, married 2 kids, college degree (going back for my masters in 2 years), hard working person who could not pass a standardized test to save her life. Does it mean that I am less than desirable because I cannot pass a standardized test? Hll no!! It means that I cannot pass a dmned test. I got extremely lucky on the SAT (1420). I bet I couldn’t do it again. I didn’t have a good breakfast before the test, I stayed up late so-called studying, and I didn’t think I had a clue when I was answering those questions. My husband on the other hand is a genuis. He’s black too. A manager for FEDEX and we expect our children to follow in our footsteps.

I know many, many people just like us (black people) who care about their children and who themselves are smart, articulate black people. So, the next time you want to put down your race, think about the fact that there are alot of people that look just like you who are not what you just described. You are not the only black person who overcame!!

By jim d

May 16, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

Why is it that this must become a racial issue? Why the great disparity in beleifs between racial minorities on the east and west coast? I’ve had several friends from the west coast that have come to Atlanta and don’t stay long, citing attitude of entitlement here as a factor forcing them to leave. Are we that hard headed and arrogant?

By SET

May 16, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

SNY and Manny:

Glad we’re talking. - Manny - no biographical data from you at all yet. Where is your point of view from?

SNY: Careful, you assume that by discussing group averages anybody is talking about you or your family’s specific profile or potential. That is not how averages work. You also assume that anyone in the discussion cares about you or your family enough to try to assail you in some way. No one here will ever meet you and yours. We’re talking about groups, not families.

I don’t mean any assault on you individually. I’m looking for dialog on making public education work.

If you think that discussing the notorious IQ gap between ethnics such as Whites and Jews puts down anyone, you are new at this. Whites don’t feel the least bit inferior (if that’s the word you would use) because they are a standard deviation IQ lower. They don’t want to be Jewish anyway. What they did do is put into place Jewish limits on Ivy League enrollment after WWII. That worked to keep the Jewish enrollment from reaching working majority at least for awhile until name changing became common. The rest is history and with only 2 and a half percent of the US population, Jewish citizens have what percent of the Scientific Nobel Prizes, Control of Industries etc.?

It is indisputable that the different ethnics have different IQ averages. Your child can be a genius, but if he’s black he will have fewer black associate geniuses than an Asian Genius would have Asians at the same level. Too bad, so sad. That’s the research and it’s not controversial.

The formula works opposite for special ed.

Having faster brain processing speed is a talent like golfing skill and racing speed. Your value as a person is more complicated than that. But you and I are not surgeons. We don’t even need that speed. I have relatives for that. What caused the gap is not at issue. Even if we discovered a vitamin pill to give newborns it would take generations to accomplish a change even if the mothers would use it.

If this issue is perceived as a personal attack on you or your children I can’t help you. You have to live this life as we all do.

But look at what is happening to the children in public schools.

Thanks to NCLB they are all being tested and reported by race. The emperor has no clothes. The Gap is front and center now, and no amount of spending, special ed or student to teacher ratios can hide it. Nor is the gap changing. It hasn’t reacted to anything - partially because remedial attempts will affect the other ethnics to maintain or enlarge the gap.

So the minority children in CA and the USA are publicly exposed as being slower as a group. Now who could have ever have predicted this would happen? (The writers of NCLB knew exactly what would happen.)

Testing is here to stay and so is the ethnic reporting. Year after year the numbers will be flashed around the world for everyone to see. Do you really think all this is an accident of legislation?

So what are we supposed to do now?

I for one would like to go back to the tactics that my ancestors who taught at Historically Black colleges and Schools used to try to get the very best from their students. But they were considered rather harsh…

By SET

May 16, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

Jim,

All testing must become a racial issue because of whose ox gets gored.

Testing here is being used to deny HS diplomas and those who fail are essentially all minority students. Similar results are beginning to turn up with driver’s license exams and occupational exams such as the California State Bar (Black lawyers have peaked at 1.8% and are falling to historically lower levels in CA).

Even credit scoring which is a test of behavior as opposed to knowledge is producing ethnic gaps which anyone who worked credit in the 70’s, like I did, could have told you.

As the different ethnic groups’ political power waxes and wanes (In CA, blacks losing and Mexican-Indians gaining) tests are seen as a way to win or lose the division of spoils. Kind of like the civil service exams in the big cities.

Remember, they call it high stakes testing.

You mentioned some friends who came in from the west coast and didn’t like Atlanta - what wat the issue? Was it racial?? The west coast has always been different - it was the Las Vegas of the 20th century. Everyone was from somewhere else.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

May 16, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

Here we go again…..

There is nothing east or west coast about any specific group and especially entitlement. It’s like saying racism only exist in the South. NOT TRUE. It’s like saying you can only live in a trailer park in Florida. Or all people born in the south are dumb and sleep with their sister/brother.

Jim - your friends were just looking for an excuse to leave. If entitlement was the excuse, it was very lame.

Also, minorities don’t own or write the book on entitlement. The language has only changed to make it look like the case.

By jim d

May 16, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this

Set,

My reference was to the racial namecalling going on here earlier. I’m quite aware of the racial gaps and how they play into education. Don’t like em, and don’t have the answers on how to eliminate them But I’m damn sure interested in listening to any thoughts others may have on the subject.

By SET

May 16, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this

Amazed,

Sorry, I think there is a major differnece in the experience and attitudes of east coast vs west coast people.

My parents (and many of their friends) met at a Historically Black College and migrated to CA in 1949. They never went to an integrated school in their lives.

My cousins and siblings and I were born and raised here. We got to go to integrated schools during the ’60s civil rights movement. Fun. It was Little Rock West.

My cohort spans well over 15 years with birthdates from 1945 to 1960. We are nothing like our parents in many ways. For one thing we are used to competing in mainstream society. There are no black colleges or black industries here. We have very sharp elbows compared to my parent’s generation. We are nowhere near as tolerant.

And we don’t like failure. We have seen plenty of it in people we knew (or their kids) who didn’t “make” it. I think we know that our children are just this close to falling out of the life we have for ourselves and want for them. The wrong friends, the wrong drug experimentation, the wrong attitude, the wrong marriage and they could be just another black - broke, in jail, on welfare or dead. It’s all around us here.

So we work our kids like a hamster on a running wheel. With enough hard work and discipline - anyone can have a nice life.

By Kage

May 16, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

I teach third grade, so my comments come from that perspective - but you’re talking about everything I want to talk about today (save the racial diatribes) so I felt compelled to comment.

About the CRCT When I first read this post last night, I was unhappy with it. I had just stayed at work until 7:00 trying to reach the parents of children who did not reach the required 800 in reading to go onto 4th grade. It was depressing to come home to read a ‘blame the teacher’ post. However, when I reread it today, my first thought was that M Benson was going to get skewered — and undeservedly so. Whether or not the CRCT is ‘simple’ depends on your perspective. It may be true that a child who does not pass it is not ready for high school, but are you seriously positing that three weeks in summer school (oftentimes half days) will fix all this?

I wish posters had a little more empathy for the parents who heard the news that their child did not pass. I know it was heartbreaking to deliver it. And that does not mean that parents weren’t well prepared for it…of the four kids of mine who did not pass, all of the parents were aware that their child was at risk for failure by December. That doesn’t make it any easier when it happens.

As far as the textbook goes…I don’t use a math textbook. The one we have been issued is out of date. It does not correlate to the new curriculum, nor does it jibe with my teaching style. I use materials from NCTM, Marilyn Burns, and others to teach my class. The textbook requires students to know umpteen different methods to calculate 8+9 (doubles +1, doubles - 1; making tens; memorization); I’d prefer kids found the way that works for them. (By third grade this fact should be memorized, but this does illustrate my issues with the textbook.) When asked, I do provide a textbook to parents. I provide the issued workbook to parents who want to provide any extra help for kids. I warned parents at the beginning of the year that I don’t use the text. In 07-08, we’ll get a new math series. This one works totally with the way I think. But you know what - it doesn’t have a student text. This is the direction math is heading. (And we don’t take notes in math in third grade.)

What really concerned me… was reading that parents need to take it upon themselves to find the supplemental materials. Even more frightening was the question, ‘Why do you need help with 8th grade math anyway?’ I have parents who don’t understand third grade math. I’m sure there are a lot who don’t get 8th grade math. But this is our job. The mother’s education is the highest predictor of a child’s success in school. Many people don’t have more than an 8th grade education. If we’re not willing to help their children understand the work, then we’re responsible for perpetuating the cycle.

By JW

May 16, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this

Personally, I do not care if students take home every textbook issued every night. I am fortunate to work in a system that supplies enough books for each student.
However, many would be surprised at the number of books not returned at the end of the year. Or even worse, the number that are damaged or defaced in some way.

By Leia

May 16, 2006 07:53 PM | Link to this

Kage - I will ask again - why is this mother struggling with 8th grade math? It is not rocket science, and, if she doesn’t understand it, how is she supposed to help her son? I won’t take responsibility for perpetuating this cycle - she should.

By Karen Armsby

May 16, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

SET, I really enjoyed your comments today; they were insightful and inciteful (to Manny & SNY). What many people fail to realize is that their success or failure, and the success or failure of their children is all in their hands. Motivation, determination, goal setting, hard work and family values obviously worked for you and yours. Personally I don’t think there is that much difference between west and east coast values, because the good parents (of any color or culture) on either side, north or south, or in middle America, are more likely to rear children that are successful in school and beyond.

By M Benson

May 16, 2006 08:09 PM | Link to this

First of all… I graduated high school 23 yrs ago… I would like to say that I dont’ need a quick refresher in certin areas of anything my children bring home… but that isn’t the case… and I’m sure I speak for many people of all walks of life… it always helps to understand what you are trying to teach or help with. And yes, sometimes a quick refresher is needed… don’t judge me for needing to do that.

By Karen Armsby

May 16, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

Kage, Regarding your question about why this mom is having trouble with 8th grade math. The fact is that math terminology and methods have changed a lot over the years, certainly since I geraduated from HS 36 years ago. Some of the math my kids brought home in middle school was Greek to me!

By M Benson

May 16, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

Your attitude Leia is the attitude I never want my children to have, it’s a shame you are teaching children. It is the attitude you carry, that judgmental attitude, that I have strived to keep out of my boys heads. When my youngest was in 1st grade, the public school system put him in French class. I had Latin when I was in high school so I was of no help to him at all in the beginning. But I learned French from helping my 1st grader. I studied his book every night with him and without him. After the school mandating that he take French for 3 yrs, they cut the program. IMO, this was 3 yrs of wasting my sons time, he could have and should have been learning something that would help him, prehaps taking Spanish instead, since there was a new boy in his grade that only spoke that. What a great learning experince when children can learn from other children, children helping other children, that is a bond that needs to exist in schools. Those kind of bonds help close the gaps the others were speaking of.

By Karen Armsby

May 16, 2006 08:38 PM | Link to this

whoops! that’s graduation, not geraduated : )

By V for Vendetta

May 16, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this

I just want to say that I am really floored at some of the assinine comments a few of yall have made towards SET.

He is one of the most well-spoken and interesting members on this blog. If anything, all you’ve done is prove how pathetically race driven the state of Georgia is. Race is a hot topic, that’s no secret, but to react like this is absurd.

When I see the South portrayed in a stereotypical light on tv and in movies I get mad, but I get even more irate when I see people from my own state validating some of the most idiotic ideas about how we think. Seriously pathetic. I don’t claim to be the most mature member on this blog, heck, I’m nowhere near that, but some of yall have reached a new low.

By Leia

May 16, 2006 08:47 PM | Link to this

Karen - I teach math, and the terminology has not changed, especially 8th grade math! What “terminology” are you speaking of? And, furthermore - the CRCT math is ridiculously easy and the cut score is so low, you could theoretically guess at the answers and pass it.

M Benson - I know, the truth hurts sometimes.

By middle school teacher

May 17, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this

I’ve been reading this blog for a while now with not much to add- but I have to jump in on this one- especially as I teach 8th grade math. I’m going to agree with Leia and some of the others above- the math section is so easy. And not only is the test easy- the cut score is scraping the bottom of the barrel. I’ts not Greek or Latin or even mathematics- it’s basic- basic arithmetic- and that has not changed over the years. I’m sorry to the parents and kids who did not pass it. But there has to be some standard- right? Even as low as it is.

By Karen Armsby

May 17, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this

Leia, Regarding the Math CRCT, I agree that it is an extremely simple test and should be easily passed by everyone that even had the most basic math. Regarding my “Greek to me” comment about the math my kids brought home during middle school in the mid 90’s; the level of complexity and terminology had changed drastically from what I had in 6th through 8th grade in the mid 1960’s in my Catholic school in Ft Walton Bch., Fla. My kids had many more abstract pre algebra concepts presented at an earlier grade, and when I tried to help one daughter in middle school, (now a junior in mechanical eng. at Ga. Tech) she told me to nevermind because I didn’t even know what the terms meant! So I am just speaking from my experience! I had Geometry in 10th grade, Algebra I & II in 11th grade and Trig/Analytical Geometry senior year. Didn’t get to calculus until college.

By Karen Armsby

May 17, 2006 08:46 AM | Link to this

Leia and other math teachers, I want to add a comment regarding today’s math education in general. I can add and subtract, multiply and divide in my head, can figure sales tax on a total, and the amount of change I should recieve. My college kids with all of their advanced math cannot multiply and divide in their heads, they told me that is what calculators are for. The cannot compute gas mileage in their heads, nor could they do long division math on paper when we filled up the car and I challenged them to figure the miles per gallon on paper before I did it in my head. They said that was what calculators are for. My undergrad degree was in biology and I am pretty accurate at estimating birds in the sky, the size of an area of land, pond, or a room in feet, cubic feet or acres, the number of trees in a plot, distances, and conversions feet to meters, etc. My kids don’t know how I do it. They tell me that is what calculators are for. IMHO Math has changed a lot from when I was in school, and in some ways not for the better.

By wwww

May 17, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this

Reality check: What posters here learned, actually LEARNED, from a math textbook? Most of my math teachers didn’t use it often - they did most of the lessons on their own. THe poorer math teachers relied heavily on the textbook - and that WAS NOT a good thing.

This has NOTHING to do with whether or not this student had a book. As a middle school teacher, I can tell you HOW LITTLE a child needs to know to pass. The CRCT is a joke, and if a student cannot pass math or reading, summer school is and should be a requirement.

By Jeff

May 17, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

Karen,

Agreed. I don’t like it, but many of my HS kids - even my high level kids - are in the exact boat you described. How this happened, why, or when, I am unsure. I was in Advanced classes when I was in HS, and we KNEW how to do everything you described. And this was only FIVE YEARS AGO!!!

Trust me, when I go to MS next year MY students won’t have this problem, not as long as I have anything to say about it.

This is my focus next year: “By the end of grade six, students will understand the four arithmetic operations as they relate to positive rational numbers; convert between and compute with different forms of rational numbers; understand the concept of ratio and solve problems using proportional reasoning; understand and use line and rotational symmetry; determine the surface area and volume of solid figures; use variables to represent unknown quantities in formulae, algebraic expressions, and equations; utilize data to make predictions; and determine the probability of a given event.”

But overall: They will KNOW the four basic operations on rationals. (Period). Even if they get NOTHING else.

By Beccaann

May 17, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this

I agree with Karen that math terms have changed over the years. I too can do math and make change in my head. Many kids do rely too much on calculators. The math portion of the CRCT isn’t difficult. The students do have to know how to read to do the word problems and one of the math teachers here told me that most of the math was word problems this year.

By Karen Armsby

May 17, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

Jeff, Thank you! And I think other math teachers need to take your comments to heart and consider what their students are actually learning and what math they will be capable of using in their practical everyday lives of handling money, cooking, shopping, working, cleaning, fertilizing the lawn, painting the house, figuring gas mileage, estimating how far they hit a baseball or golf ball, or the area of their backyard that needs to be seeded with grass, the linear feet of fencing to enclose that yard, etc. Put the calculators away for awhile and teach your students to do the math in their heads!

By Educatorx3

May 17, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

In reading the comments about the CRCT and who should take the “blame” for students failing, there are some basic facts to consider.

First, the state curriculum (for any content area) is not found in a textbook. The curriculum can be found on the DOE’s website. It is there for all to see. If you want to know what your child is supposed to be learning, and you don’t get it from your school - look it up! If your child’s teacher is teaching just the text, there is a problem! (and as for bringing the textbooks home…that is a danged if you do, danged if you don’t situation! If students take home all their books, parents complain about the weight of the bookbag!)

Second, all the discussion about grading makes me wonder. If your child gets a graded paper everyday, how will that increase their math knowledge? A teacher can give feedback and instruction without grading. Very few students are truly motivated by grades. (Unfortantely, many parents are!) Bottom line, the goal of a teacher is to bring all children as close as they can to the expected outcomes of the class. I would rather think that the teacher is spending time looking for trends in missed answers and addressing those through instruction than placing grades on papers. Assessment experts tell us that grades should be reserved for assignments given well into the instructional unit; assessment should be done daily and continuously.

Third, still on grading…there is an obvious problem when students are making honor roll but not passing the standardized test. Again, it is an issue of what is expected by the general public. Most parents (notice MOST, not all) think they understand grades because they have been through school so they want grades on a regular basis. Some systems are educating their parents to the idea of standards-based reports and are showing “progress toward the goals” rather than grades. This allows for little Susie to have time to learn rather than being pushed to make a grade. (and before anyone spouts off…this is NOT easier than grading, it takes a lot of work!) Again, the goal of a classroom teacher is to get every child as close to the expected outcomes as possible.

Finally, most every classroom teacher will agree that using a standardized test grade as the sole measure for promotion and retention is not good. There are wonderful instructional uses for standardized tests. Data-driven instruction is a part of most good professional learning programs or teacher-education programs. Neither the teachers nor the system administration teams decide about about the use of these tests as a measure of mastery. These decisions are rooted in political rules, regulations, and agendas. Most teachers will tell you that there are students who do not pass their classes but do well on the CRCT and vice versa. There are numerous explanations as to why this happens but think about it this way….do you want to drive next to the person who made a 100 on the written portion of the driving test but failed the road test driving portion?

Our students need the opportunity to learn beyond the basic and discreet knowledge and skills and learn to apply the knowledge. This can be accomplished through the cooperation of the professional teacher, the concerned parents, and the motivated student. Let’s recognize the importance of each of these and work together to make it work.

Just so you know where I come from…I have taught middle school, been a school/system administrator, taught on the college level, and worked for the state DOE. I am a parent and a perpetual student. I have experienced education from many different viewpoints. And, having just recently discovered this blog, this is my first post.

By SNY

May 17, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

Hey guys,

We have bigger problems than this. Especially the parents of us elementary age kids. The news is talking about the growing numbers of elementary schools doing away with recess. Patti, here is our next blog subject!!

By Karen Armsby

May 17, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this

Educatorx3, Welcome to Get Schooled, and thanks for your comments. From a general public parent point of view, I think that communication between teachers and parents is the key to understanding a student’s progress or failure, and for establishing reasonable expectations for the student’s performance on subsequent standardized testing. Looks like communcations failed in this example where an honor roll student failed the 8th grade math CRCT.

By SNY

May 17, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

What happens to the kids who obviously know the material but had a bad testing day? Are they stuck going to summer school?

By M Benson

May 17, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

It’s not funny that you are talking about calculators, but that is one of the items on the “must buy” list from the school for all my kids every year. Gosh when I was in school, if we had a calculator is was taken up by the teacher. Too much in too little time is what is expected these days, and I think that is where the problem is. Kids aren’t actually absorbing.
Since learning about my son not passing, I have spent numerous hrs trying to figure out what it is he is missing… I have given him several “mini tests” on everything he was given to work with this year in Math and also added some from my 6th and 7th grade son’s Math and I can’t find the problem, he has answered about 90% of them correct as he did on the quizes offered online for the CRCT. We practiced and took those tests before the CRCT. I have also had him take them again since learning he failed, no change. But after taking the same test 5 or 6 times, which is what they had them do before the CRCT, that is more of a memory thing, rather than learning. From a parents perspective, it is very frustrating, more so when the only materials offered as a tool to him this year were his notes copied from a black board. I guess it depends on the teacher. He has a reading exam coming up, and we have had the study guide for a week now, on what we need to study. I know that we have to focus on Hyperboles and Idioms along with other things. He didn’t get one in Math. When I emailed her about it, she said they were reviewing it in class, she doesn’t hand out study guides. Well I’m glad they are, but as a parent, that study guide, that so many teachers hand out, helps me help him. I will never agree with any teacher that relys soley on notes from a black board as the only tool offered to a student and parent. What is the purpose of having copy machines, to send home the limitless imformation on up coming fund raisers, field trips and permission forms to watch a movie in class? Or maybe its the extra credit that teachers offer for kids bringing in cans of food or old books. I am very pro teacher, I always have been, but in this case, this teacher I am dealing with, has yet to spell my last name right on the emails she sends me. I understand that she is a Math teacher and not Spelling, but like many have said, its not rocket science!

By jim d

May 17, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

M Benson,

Have you requested to see his test? You may wish to consider doing so. Grading errors have been known to occur at some of these grading factories. If your confident your child knows the materials, have you the option of retesting? It could be a simple problem of a missed bubble scewing the test results. I highly recomend that you check with the school on other options available since you have indicated this child has demonstarted a knowledge of the material in his grades all year long.

DO IT—DO IT NOW!

By SNY

May 17, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this

M. Benson,

I am truly sorry that your son has not passed the CRCT and I understand your frustration. You are absolutely correct about everything they send home. The first week of school isn’t even over before they send home fundraiser CRAP! If they can send that home, they can copy a study guide.

I guess my question to you is, did you go and talk to the principal about any of this? If so, what did that principal say? I know that I have had to get a little ugly with the school sometimes. I know some parents think that is not necessary but sometimes it is. Promise us that next year when your 7th grader goes to 8th grade, you will not allow him to have the same teacher. This teacher did not give you or your son what you needed. I wish for your sons sake that this was caught much sooner.

Teachers - What is going to summer school for 3 weeks going to do? Do the summer school teacher know what parts of the CRCT in math that each student has failed? If not, how do the summer school teachers know what concepts to concentrate on? They can’t reteach the whole 8th grade year. Some of these kids may have only not understood one concept.

By M Benson

May 17, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this

I have already done this, they aren’t available until after school lets out.

By SNY

May 17, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this

jim d.,

I didn’t know that you can request to see the test. Can anyone make that request or are they only available to those who have failed the test?

(I don’t want to read in a few minutes that that is a dumb question.) I asked to see my daughters test when it came in and I was told that there was no reason for me to see it. That whatever score was on it will stick. Is that true?

By luvs2teach

May 17, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

SNY - I can only speak for my school, but yes, the kids are getting targeted instruction. When you get your child’s scores, it will give you a breakdown on what parts s/he had difficulty with.

M Benson - jim d is absolutely right - look at the scores - if it is in the neighborhood of 290 and up, one question could’ve made the difference. I would ask to see. If it’s much below that, then your son either had real difficulty or didn’t take the test seriously.

Talk to your son about that last possibility. I’m not trying to get in the blame game here, but as an 8th grade teacher, I can’t tell you how many kids just didn’t believe it was really going to happen to them! Blame it on lack of belief; blame it on lack of motivation - even blame it on overhype and overpractice on the stupid thing, but SO many just didn’t listen when we (parents and teachers) told them what was going to happen.

If that is the case, then summer school is probably an adequate consequence - maybe he’s hoping your effort will get him out it! From what you’ve written, I can see how you’d be upset with the teacher(so would I), but I think you are blaming yourself too much, and you’re letting your child off the hook - I’ve seen enough kids do the same to their parents in the hopes and expectation that their mom or dad will get them out of whatever uncomfortable situation they got themselves into.

I love my kids(personal AND professional), but they can be devious and lazy!

Best of luck to you!

By M Benson

May 17, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

I have just learned that 7 out of 27 children in his math class alone did not pass the math CRCT. The principal just called me, she just got in the information from the tests. She told me the area he didn’t do well in, it was geometry and problem solving. She looked at his past CRCT scores and problem solving he always did well in. He has never NOT passed any CRCT tests she said.

By SNY

May 17, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

M. Benson,

I know that this is hard, but stay calm. Obviously almost 4% of this teachers class did not understand what was handwritten on the board. To some people that may not seem like alot but it is to me. Maybe it is time for someone to take some action with this teacher. Talk to former students and their parents. Start searching to see if this method has worked for this teacher in the past. It may be too late for your son but you may help someone else’s. Maybe these 7 students needed a little more help than just copying off of the board.

Whatever you do, try to stay calm. We all understand your anger and frustration and we are here to help you figure out a way to fix this problem. If you need us, use us. We all have ideas and experience on both sides of the spectrum.

By M Benson

May 17, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

One more comment… I asked her if it was just basic arithmetic and how difficult she thought it was. She told me this is the first year for this test… it has changed from tests in the past. It isn’t just basic math. She also told me that in summer school they are handing out work books to students, it is called CRCT coach. And he will be bringing that home. By the looks of it, they expected this, they have already, county wide, pulled all the students who didn’t pass, from their other classes. He came home yesterday and told me that he has 3 hrs of nothing but Math. He will remain in Art,Band and Reading. However, the Reading will be farmed out, so that the reading teachers can concentrate on the students that didn’t pass the reading part of the CRCT. But Science, GA studies, Language Arts are now additional Math classes for him.

By M Benson

May 17, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

SNY, Thank you. I will say this, the responsiblity of this lies with 3 parties, not just 2 like I have felt in the past. This school knows me well, I have a sons in 6th, 7th and 8th grade. The principal knows how I feel about all the teachers there, so she knows when I call that it is a legit concern that I have. In 3 yrs that my kids have been going to the school, I have never called a teacher or the principle to ask anything other than ” what is it, that he is doing or not doing” It has NEVER been, what is the teacher doing or not doing. My kids are not straight “A” students, but they get “A”s and “B”s. The occasional “C” at progress report time, and that is when I know they are slacking. Despite what everyone thinks of me as a parent, I am always on top of my kids and their education as much as I can, I can’t control the way a teacher communicates with parents or students.

By Becca

May 17, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

Our tests are sent back with the score sheets so I am not sure where you could go to request a copy of the test? M. Benson, maybe your child just got on the wrong line and marked several in the wrong place. Sometimes the reason for failing the test is as simple as that. I hate to try and fill in those little ovals!

By Patti Ghezzi

May 17, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Hi M. Benson, thanks for sharing your situation with us. I wanted to make sure before I posted, but your son’s principal is wrong about the 8th grade math CRCT changing. It has not. The tests that changed this year were 6th grade math, 6th and 7th grade science and K-12 English and Reading. I got the info straight from the state Dept of Ed.

Patti Ghezzi

By M Benson

May 17, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

All I know is what she told me. She said that they had to change their curriculm because of the changes made to the CRCT in Math this year.

By Patti Ghezzi

May 17, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this

M Benson, it’s all very, very confusing, which is why I checked with the DOE before posting. I would encourage you to suggest in the most humble and respectful way possible - I know how easily a principal can get defensive - that she contact the DOE for clarification. It’s true the curriculum for all subjects is changing and will be phased in over time, but the math test your son took was not different in content from previous years.

Good luck and please keep us posted on how things go for him in summer school and on his second attempt at the test.

Patti Ghezzi

By jane

May 17, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

Ms. Benson,

I served on a state board of ed committee, your principal misled you (or maybe was misled yourself). The 8th grade math test was not one that changed this year.

Jane

By Educatorx3

May 17, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

M Benson, The information from Patti is correct. The CRCT will change as each new piece of the curriculum is put in place. If your son’s school changed the curriculum in 8th grade math this year, they jumped the gun. The new 8th grade curriculum and test do not go into place until 2007 school year.

There should have been some field-test items on the test that did not count in the grade but simply supply information to the DOE testing folks for the design of the new test.

As for getting a copy of the test…you can get a copy of your son’s test results but not the test. The test items are protected and cannot be released without compromising the validity of the items.

As a parent, however, you can request copies of any and all of your son’s testing records. The data can be used to determine trends in areas of strength and weakness. This valuable information can, and should, be used to help make a plan for your son. Another poster made a couple of good suggestions…if your son only missed the cut score by a small margin, you could be talking about getting one additional question correct. If there is a major differential between his score and the cut score, I would be concerned about his basic skills.

Summer school, in most places, is instruction in how to pass the test. Drill and kill on sample questions and how to choose the correct answer. This is not teaching for understanding. Does it work? If the measure is the number of students who pass the test on the re-take, yes. If we are talking about enduring understanding and the ability to apply this knowledge in any situation, no.

You son’s school has access to an online test bank that has questions similar to those found on the CRCT. If you have not been given a passcode for this site, ask for it. It is a great way for your son to practice for the test.

By Hannah

May 17, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

M Benson - the 8th grade CRCT did not change this year!

If 7 of the 27 students in his class did not pass it, it sounds like he was in the “slower” math class. That would mean that his teacher should have been spending a lot of time preparing these students for this exam.

You can request to see a breakdown of his exam - but, they may try to dissuade you from seeing the actual test. I’m not middle school, but, I know how it works in high school

In summer school, he will be with other students with similar deficiencies, and the teacher should be able to catch them up during that 3 week period.

By M Benson

May 17, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

I just called again, she said that the test was added to? I have all his scores from the first CRCT he took. And she went over them with me again on the phone. I know excatly how many he missed in what areas for the previous years and now this year. She said he was off by 3 questions. His reading was good she said. I also am looking at his writing assesment scores, that was a 358 out of 400.

We have taken the practice on line tests many times. The teachers used them as grades for class work.

The good news is, that she is going to change some things. Primarly the material that is offered to students and parents. There will be more than the notes from the board. This has been a headache for months.

I guess I was spoiled in the respect that my kids have always had great teachers, teachers that expected them to do their best and gave them the tools needed to do get that done with the help of my myself and my husband. 99% of the teachers from grade school to middle school have done that. Its because of that 99%, that I will continue to have and teach my boys to have, the upmost respect for all teachers.

By Jeff

May 17, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this

In other words, Benson, you just made every teacher in that school miserable and added even more work to their already COMPLEX lives. Good job!! (note that the last statement is DRIPPING with sarcasm!)

By M Benson

May 17, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

How so Jeff? I do not think that providing students and parents with more than notes on a black board is asking too much. After hearing that 84 kids in his school did not pass the CRCT, ( I am checking into that number, I heard that from another parent at the school) I think that more is needed by everyone involved, NOT excluding myself. What harm is there in providing students with more tools than just the notes on a black board?

I have known for months that our school did not meet the AYP criteria for Academic Performance. I have never put this on the shoulders of the teachers, but on the shoulders of the teachers AND parents.

By Hannah

May 17, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

Unless you child has a modification plan in place (504 or IEP), the teachers DO NOT have to provide special allowances for one student!

Perhaps you should have him tested for special education. That way - you could have the test read to him, answers bubbled in for him, and all the time he wants on exams!

By Jane

May 17, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

M Benson - I hope that’s not your real name, because you’ve just made every teacher want to avoid your kids like the plague!

By M Benson

May 17, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

Who is asking for special allowances for 1 student?

By Hannah

May 17, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

You are.

By SNY

May 17, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

You guys are being very harsh. I agree totally with M Benson. Some students need more than problems on the chalkboard. They need to understand the problem completely. If the teacher isn’t suppose to be responsible for teaching the material then who is? Don’t you guys dare put it back on the parents either. It is your job to teach and our job to reinforce what you teach.

Going home now.

By M Benson

May 17, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

Why is that? I have just got off the phone with the school again. Over 80 kids in this school failed the Math CRCT. 7 of those were in my sons class of 27 students. All year we have had noting but notes copied from a black board in this Math class. All his other teachers, all the 6th and 7th grade teachers have handed out study guides for the students to take home to work from on their finals for this week and next. I have yet to get one from 8th grade Math. I have contacted her and she doesn’t hand out any kind of study guide. So asking for a study guide to help my kids is asking for too much? Asking for the name of a math book so I can PURCHASE one to have at home is asking too much? I can clearly see that my expections are too high then.

By Jeff

May 17, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

Hannah,

Unfortunately, once again, administration gave in to one whiny parent with a sob story. So now its not just one kid, its the entire school.

“Quote withheld as it would reveal my identity to ANYONE that knows me!”

By Jeff

May 17, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

Pay attention in my class. Write down everything I do. Do your assigned work. That’s all it takes.

Benson and others:

Did you ever think that MAYBE the explanation is withheld because it is far more advanced than what the student is ready for? (A good example is the surface area of certain 3D shapes. Without a Calc III or IV level mathematical understanding, an accurate explanation is impossible.)

By V (no vendetta)

May 17, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

Benson,

Maybe the teacher has a LIFE outside of school? (I say this is as I sit at my school working on creating finals, even though my drive ONE WAY is longer than the average Metro ATL round trip to work!!)

Maybe the teacher has higher standards of his/ her students and/ or is trying to get them ready for HS?

Maybe the teacher would like to do things another way, but do to student behavior, whiny parents, and admins that give into them, this is the best the teacher can do?

Maybe the teacher was never given so much as a TEACHER book for the class and is working with a student book to teach the class?

These and more factors could easily be at play. Tell ya what: Go to school and follow that teacher around one day. Better yet: Encourage the teacher to tape his/ her class and make the tape available to all parents. I’ve found that even when student behaviort is DOCUMENTED ON VIDEO TAPE, both students and parents will deny that it happened…

By teach overseas

May 17, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

Well, it seems to me that if 80 kids failed, it is doubtful that one teacher who only gave notes on the board had ALL of those 80 kids. So kids failed with different teachers and different styles. Your kid failed- I’m sorry- but it doesn’t seem as though the fact that the kid didn’t have a book or a study guide (again, let’ think basic math) is the sole reason your son was not sucessful on this test. I know it’s heartbreaking that he missed by three questions- but he missed three questions on a bar that was set so low that anyone with basic math should have passed. Your son does not appear to have a grasp of basic math. Get him into summer school and get him into a private tutoring service as soon as you can! High school math is going to be tough for him.

By M Benson

May 17, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

You can say what you want, on the other hand, if I wasn’t asking for those things, you would call me a parent who didn’t care. I have never babied him when it comes to his education. Anyone can call that school right now and know that I am hard on my kids when it comes to their school work. I have NEVER put anything off on a teacher, and I wasn’t this time either. I was only wanting more resources, other than his notes, to fall back on at home. I was asking for some sort of communication, so I would know if he was or wasn’t doing his work in class. How is this making it hard on teachers? How is this asking too much? How is this special treatment for 1 child?

By Leia

May 18, 2006 08:10 AM | Link to this

Okay - so for my own clarification - you asked the teacher for the name of a textbook and she refused to give it to you? I do not believe that for one second! Secondly, if you wanted extra resources, besides the notes, why didn’t you do a Google search for “8th Grade Math”? You evidently have access to a computer and time during the day to use it.

My 6th grade daughters took Practice 8th Grace CRCT exams online and did very well on them. In fact, they laughed about how easy they were, and look forward to the 8th grade!

Your biggest concern should be getting your son into a tutoring program as soon as possible. He needs some major help with basic math skills if he’s going to be successful in high school. FYI - there are major changes in the math curriculum coming down the pike, and if he lives in Gwinnett County - he’d better be ready!

By middle school teacher

May 18, 2006 08:30 AM | Link to this

M. Benson-

I’m sure you are hard on your kids. I think you are getting a little too focused on the fact that he didn’t have a book or study guide and forgetting the larger picture.

Unless you are new to the school system, your sons lack of math skills have been known to his math teachers certainly by 7th grade and probably by 6th. It has been the topic of conversation at all team meetings. On the first day of school here, we made a list of all potential failures on the CRCT and made an action plan for these kids. Nobody wants your son to fail- it makes everyone look bad. He was most likely placed in a group of other weak math students and put with a strong and innovative teacher. He was probably placed with this teacher as the textbook- worksheet- study guide approach didn’t work with him (as noted by his weak math skills) The teacher was trying something new- trying something innovative or maybe going back to the basics approach. Yes, your son failed, but 20 other kids in the class passed. I have to say that those other kids make the teacher and his/her ability look pretty good.

Your son has very weak math skills. A study guide was not the answer to your prayers. I agree with the other posters- get your son into a tutoring service. (Sylvan, Huntington, etc) He is going to need intensive math training for him to be successful next year.

By Beccaann

May 18, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

Leia, I totally agree with you! I don’t believe for one second that the teacher refused to give the name of the book. And even if she did, I am sure that Benson’s child’s reading and writing skillsa are good enough for him to write down the name of the book and pass it along. Did you notice yesterday how many times, he/she said that they just got off the phone with the principal? I guess the principal has to push all other work aside to deal with this one parent. Wow.

By M Benson

May 18, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

This is where the test and the grades DON’T match up. Up until this yr, he has passed the CRCT in all areas. He was not grouped with the 7th graders last yr, I already asked, he passed last year. He has also recieved “A”s and “B”s in math, the occasionl “C” at progress report time. This is the first yr we have struggled with Math. So if indeed he needs that immediate help in Math, WHY after being in school for 8 yrs, haven’t his grades reflected that, or his teachers opened thier mouths and said anything!!!!! Why do I have STACKS of homework and tests that show he did the work and did it right? As for the teacher not giving me the name of the book.. SHE DID NOT, BECAUSE SHE DOESN’T USE IT IN HER CLASS. What is that you don’t understand about that? The books that were to be issued to students, were NOT issued, because she doesn’t USE THEM! I dont’ find it acceptable that 7 of her 27 kids did not pass the CRCT.

My son who is in 6th grade does not have a science book!!! I don’t find that acceptable!!!

My son knows that this is on him also!!!!! He has no idea when I talk to his teachers, unless they tell him. He has no idea what I say to his teachers, unless I think he needs to know.

And those calls that he does hear, are the ones of me asking the principal or the teacher to WRITE him up the next time he gets bored in class and decides to talk or the ones where the teacher is telling me he didn’t do his classroom work.

My issues with this teacher have been on going long before the CRCT.

The parent who’s daughter gets A’s and B’s… but yet failed the Math CRCT? Who hands out the grades? Who presents the material to these kids? WHATS GOING ON?

By M Benson

May 18, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

2 8th grade Math teachers at our school, 80 kids FAILED the Math CRCT. That tells me that someone isn’t doing their job, and I refuse to believe its all on the parents.

By M Benson

May 18, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

BTW, my son knows that after this next 3 weeks, there will not be another chance for him, because I will not take it any further. He knows he has to apply himself the best he can, that’s an on going discussion in our home. He knows there is no room for being lazy in school and 3 weeks of summer school will be the consequence he pays for it. With that said, I still do not agree with there not being anything other than notes on a black board for children. If my husband didn’t give the employees at work what they needed to do their job, he would be FIRED.

By SET

May 18, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

I’m following the thread with M Benson and her child having to go to summer school because of failure on a math screening test.

Regardless of the testing issue - is there a problem with telling the kids to expect to be in summer school on a permanent basis?

My siblings and I were kept in summer school through our entire high school careers. Our parents had 3 kids at home and we were told that we were not going to be hanging around the house. Summer school wasn’t a punishment or a reflection of academic failure - although remedial courses were offered in summer school as well as the advanced regular courses.

The summer school was a different school than the public school district we went to. It was run by UC Berkeley occupying one of the large Oakland Public Schools each summer. The teachers were UC Berkeley Graduate students. The teacher student ratio was something like 1 to 12 so we normally had 2 teachers for every class of 25. We had to start early and class went to 4pm or something like that. We completed one school year each summer session.

One summer I did a year of Biology, another I did a year of physics. I remember taking a typing class also on the side. I forget the other courses. This school had a working cafeteria (mine didn’t) so in the morning we had fresh baked cinnamon rolls and hot luches were served at noon. This was my only experience with a school cafeteria and it’s staff.

The students came from all over the east bay, some of them commmuting an hour to get to class at 7:30. If you missed 3 days for any reason at all you lost all your class credit. There was a similar penalty for being late more than a certain number of times. We were worked harder than any previous school experience and the grad students expected more of us than our regular public school teachers. (Plus the Bio teachers were a black woman and an Asian woman in their late 20’s they were brilliant! - we’d never seen teachers like this before in 1970…) Plus the Jack and Jill crowd was there - there were no J&J members at my regular high school.

We made friends with people we would never had met at our own schools. We were not surrounded with people from our own town for once. It took everything we had to keep up. We had better equipment than in my own school. It was kind of like going to work - we felt older and more important there than in regular school (far more adult interaction). The atmosphere made us think of ourselves a almost “college”.

I would like every high school student to have this experience at least once in their student career.

By Jeff

May 18, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this

Benson,

I would like to understand this situation more. Can you email me at ajc_jeff@yahoo.com?

The way I see it right now, your son isn’t taking full or accurate notes. I could be wrong though. Maybe your son isn’t asking questions in class. Maybe he’s never come before or after school to ask questions. Again, I don’t know. All I know is that my class averages right now are all in the 70 - 84 range and that includes the classes that don’t have books to take home.

I’ll admit, over the past days I have been overly combative about this… I’ve been dealing with parent issues myself, and it gets irritating. (That, plus - yes Jim - I didn’t eat lunch yesterday… NOT a good thing for me to do!!)

By Leia

May 18, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

M Benson - My 6th grade twins weren’t issued a science text either. But, the teacher offered the parents a CD of the text, which I promptly took home and loaded on both my computer and theirs. The school also gave all parents a list (with ISBN) of all the textbooks used for the grade, in case we wanted to either buy a set for home use, or borrow them from a former student.

News flash - there are many, many classes where the majority of students are failing! They are the “technical” level courses that the 9th and 10th graders with no basic math skills (cough, cough) are registered for. The fact that 7 out of 27 students in this one class didn’t pass the CRCT is not shocking in the least!

And one more thing - the cut scores were just released for the high school Algebra EOCT, 47% = meets expectations, and 67% = exceeds! Now, do you get what we’ve been trying to tell you? If your son failed the CRCT - HE DID NOT HAVE BASIC MATH SKILLS!!! It was not the teacher’s fault, and it wasn’t because he didn’t have a textbook!

By SNY

May 18, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

Leia and Beccaann,

You know what, if I call the school to speak with my childs principal, she better be available to speak with me as well. I think that you guys are being very hard on Benson. Did she drop the ball a little - yes. But don’t you think the teacher did as well? I know that you teachers think that you are always right, but you’re not. If you don’t like your job, get a new one. I work in Accounting and I get handed extra work all of the time. Things that I feel other departments should be handling. So what, I have to pick up my game. Take it from a B game to an A game. I do it and shut up about it. Sometimes, some kids are going to need more help. HELP THEM. It is not that hard. If you have gone to college, received your teachers certificate, and been properly trained, what is the problem? Sometimes you have to go above and beyond. If you don’t like it or you don’t want to do it, QUIT! I wouldn’t want you around my child with that attitude. Stop thinking that all kids learn the same way. They don’t!! Stop thinking that kids are robots. They aren’t!! Stop thinking that if Johnny can do it, so can Sam. Maybe Sam needs it to be explained a totally different way!! It is your JOB, what you choose to do, to teach these kids the concepts. The way school worked when I attended was the teacher taught the concept, assigned classwork and watched while we tried to make sense of the concept in class, assigned homework, and the parents reinforced at home what was taught at school. Now, teachers want us to be the teacher and the reinforcer. If that is the case, WHY do we need teachers?

Sorry, on my soapbox again. But you guys are being way harsh on Benson.

By Leia

May 18, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

SNY - at least try to be original when you attempt to insult teachers!

I’m a great teacher, but, I can only work with what I’m given. I’m being REAL with M Benson. She needs to straighten out this situation before her son gets into high school. If she doesn’t want to hear the truth - skip over all of my posts!

By jim d

May 18, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

SNY,

now you are being as hard on teachers. I’d still be interested in knowing if someone were to look at this particular test result, locate where answers starting going ascew and move the remaining bubbles down just one notch, what the results would look like. See I don’t know about Benson, but I’ve always told my child to move on when he hits a problem he’s not sure of, going back if time permits. Doing this and failing to skip a bubble could lead to a catsrophic difference in the results.

By jim d

May 18, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

Am I the only one that ever got to the end of a multiple guess—fill in the bubble test and discovered I had an extra bubble left?

By Leia

May 18, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

jim d - No you’re not! I did that once and I swear, I think I died and came back! I always tell my students to mark their answers on the question sheet as well, so if I notice that a grade is uncharacteristically low - I’ll go back and check the answers on the question sheet. I’ve “saved” several students this way.

By M Benson

May 18, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this

lol Jim D. I don’t think you are!!

By SNY

May 18, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

I don’t mean to be hard on anyone, I just want all of US to understand that this is not easy for any of us. Teachers or parents. Plus, with the way these schools are running, it isn’t easy on the kids either. How do you teachers think that kids who know they need extra help feel? Do you think they like feeling as if they are getting on your nerves?

Leia and Beccaann don’t seem to have any patience at all. I would not want my kid in their class. Especially if my kid needed extra help once in awhile. My daughter is sensitive and the two of you would destroy her and her spirit. I went to school to be a teacher so I know it isn’t easy. That’s why I changed to Accounting, but kids are still kids. Once you break their spirit, no amount of love from you as a teacher will bring that love back. You break their spirit and you deserve all of the attitude and backlash that child gives you.

By SET

May 18, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

SNY is right.

It’s not a surprise to read M Benson’s reaction to her son’s math placement - and that’s what the test is, a placement test. Her reaction to his test scoring matches the boy’s score.

Neither of them are on top of the situation.

It doesn’t matter that the teacher didn’t do or not do anything. The child was in a pack of other kids, most of whom (even from his classroom) passed the placement test.

Her best option at this point is to have the kid tested comprehensively to see what his IQ and other academic skills are coming in at. Then tailor his education to make the most of whatever there is to work with. She may want to change schools or teachers if possible and warranted. Maybe different class size or mix or teacher-student ratio could help. Maybe he needs more supervision than previously indicated.

Or she can do nothing and go with the flow. Lots of people do this.

From my experience parents in this situation do not have the kid tested comprehensively - possibly because they don’t want to face the results they actually suspect.

This is no different than a medical situation. I’ve worked with a lot of psychiatric criminal defendants whose symptoms were mild (at first). Even when warned, the parents refused to get the child professionally evaluated. IQ problems, Mood Disorders, Sleep Disorders, drug dependency, you name it - had to become life threatening before they’d even talk about it and it was too late then to change the course that led to major criminal & health problems. Worse, they let the kid get old enough so that the child could veto any medical intervention.

I’ve had parents stand there and seriously claim their kid is bright when I see motor and speech impairment and I suspect a serious head injury - and he’s been put in continuation school. And he’s never been professionally evaluated. Not the case here, but the principle is the same.

Whatever the (learning) problem is, it will get worse if not dealt with early. Of course the kid should go to summer school - and then some. And make him understand it’s not punishment, it’s just what happens on this occasion when you don’t pass the screening test.

And don’t trust classroom grades. They are too subjective. Look for objective testing such as standardized tests where he can be compared to his cohort. If there is a problem have him evaluated and deal with it.

The teacher and Principal in question don’t have all day to deal with Ms. Benson and her son. Time to get more info.

By SNY

May 18, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

SET,

I was with you until the very last part of your entry. The teacher and principal should spend as much time as it takes with this one situation. I don’t care how long that is. That is part of their job. If the parent has to go through this, she shouldn’t have to do it alone. The teacher is partly to blame for this mess so she should help clean it up.

By Leia

May 18, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this

SNY - you probably wouldn’t want your child in my class! I have high expectations and I am tough on the students.

They can email me or IM me at night with homework problems; we can meet at the ballpark while I watch my own children play softball; I’ve been invited to several former students’ college graduations; teachers who get my former students know instantly that they came from my class because they are well prepared; and I have an excellent A.P. test score record.

Hmm - maybe you would want your child in my class!

By oldteacher

May 18, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

Benson, Why would you want the name of a book that the teacher doesn’t use?

By Beccaann

May 18, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

SNY, What attitude? I didn’t know that attitude came through on blogs. Maybe your should also check yours. Don’t worry about not wanting your child in my class. I teach remedial students (and have all the patience in the world) and I am sure that your child is not a remedial student. BTW - we got CRCT scores this morning and only 2 of my 45 students didn’t pass.

Every parent has a right to call the school and hopefully speak with the principal. I am not taking issue with that. What I was taking issue with is that she seemed to be calling the principal constantly. Our principal doesn’t sit in her office all day and just take phone calls. She does when it is necessary, but there are also times when it is necessary to arrange to call back. Our school policy is within 24 hours. How would you feel if your child were having a seizure and another parent was on the phone or in the office demanding to see the principal? I think you might want them to wait.

I know that I am not always right. I even tell my kids that if they ask me something that I don’t know.

By Beccaann

May 18, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

Benson, you are right about the 80 students failing being unacceptable. Do you know what that percentage is?

By Manny

May 18, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

SNY - It is not “our job” to spend countless hours dealing with one student! That is where you are dead wrong. The bottom line is that the kid failed the exam. No amount of talking is going to change that. Benson needs to be on the phone with Sylvan, trying to get the next available appointment for her son.

By SET

May 18, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

SNY:

That comment was rhetorical. In the schools you have maybe there is time & money to work with such cases.

That is not the case here in CA. The public schools are seeing their enrollment actually decline as the private schools expand. Their funding is tied to Average Daily Attendance. In the metropolitian school districts the public school students are largely minorities with many requiring special attention.

For example, the last time I was at a local public school 7th grade class several years ago there were no white students, the class was 1/3 black, hispanic and asian. As you may have heard, the hispanic students take off for cultural reasons to go to Mexico for a month or more seasonally in the winter. The public schools take a big financial hit over such issues. They have lost the nurses and a lot of the extra things that were common in my day. The class size seems large to me. The teachers I saw seemed young.

There is limited handholding. Too many kids, too many problems, and most families don’t see an emergency.

My co-workers enroll their children in Sylvan Learning Center (a local for-profit Company) if they need more academic attention. The teachers there contact the child’s teacher and co-ordinate extra work, homework, and special testing. All the parents have to do is put it all on the credit card.

You get what you pay for I guess.

I don’t know if the teacher is to blame for this mess. Some kids are not able to learn as well as others and it shows on objective tests. I do think that nowadays our public schools are not in business to provide handholding. If only things were different. I wish they were. I think they could be but for politicial correctness.

I hope Ms Benson let’s us know how things resolve.

By oldteacher

May 18, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

Benson, My hope is that your child does well on the make-up CRCT. Maybe it is nothing more than has been suggested a couple of times - he got on the wrong line and bubbled wrong. Good luck to him.

By M Benson

May 18, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

If I am not mistaken there are about 360 8th graders, I say 80 because she told me “about 80” failed the Math CRCT.

I do know my son has always passed the Math CRCT. I know that the school expected that high of a number from the 7th grade scores last year, and when she told me that, I couldn’t help but think that there is a break in the system some place, between ALL involved.

If a school expected this, maybe more needed to be done this yr to try and reverse the trend, if even by 20 kids.

By M Benson

May 18, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

If I am not mistaken there are about 360 8th graders, I say 80 because she told me “about 80” failed the Math CRCT.

I do know my son has always passed the Math CRCT. I know that the school expected that high of a number from the 7th grade scores last year, and when she told me that, I couldn’t help but think that there is a break in the system some place, between ALL involved.

If a school expected this, maybe more needed to be done this yr to try and reverse the trend, if even by 20 kids.

By Middle School Teacher in DeKalb

May 18, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

Here it is the end of the school year and parents are just now realizing the issues that are within the schools. How crazy is that? As a middle school teacher and a parent of a middle school student it is not fair to place the blame on teachers. I’m not saying this just because I am a teacher and no my son does not make the best grades in the class. It begins at home. We have to stay on our kids and instill the importance of taking good notes and paying attention in class. So what the students only have a class set of books?! So what they never received workbooks?! Instead of purchasing video games, such as PS2, XBox 360, buying the new Jordans, and so forth we should invest in our children’s education. There are too many resources available for us to blame the teachers and the school systems. Parents need to join PTA. Parents need to visit the schools and stay active. Complain to the county offices. Parents have a stronger voice than teachers. They just don’t use it.

Learning is a lifelong process. It does not just involve school. Once these kids leave school there are so many of them that don’t even attempt to do homework. They don’t spend time revisiting the objectives covered in class that day. And if they are on a block schedule then more than likely it’ll be two days before they’re back in that class again. All children can learn and all children will learn if given the opportunity. However, we must realize that it may take longer than the 180 days in a school year for a child to grasp certain concepts. This is where the parents can and should pick up the ball. Go to SchoolBox and buy your children activity books. Go to Best Buy and purchase various educational software. Stop trying to look for a scapegoat and take some of the blame. Teachers and principals don’t go home with these kids at night. Some of the learning end at dismissal. Let’s be real here. These students need to be held accountable as well. If they know they are struggling then they should let someone know. Too many students sit back and not say anything. Their grades may look decent but that could be because they are cheating. There are so many factors that should be considered when trying to place blame. Accept your responsibility in this mess first. Students having to pass the CRCT in certain grade levels in order to be promoted to another grade is a part of the No Child Left Behind Act. But everyone knows that NCLB will eventually leave all of our children behind. There are students who have made good grades all year but they are not good test takers. Which means, they may not make the grade. Is it fair to them? Who are you going to blame for that? I can go on and on. Parents, stop blaming the teachers/schools. Step up to the plate and handle your business.

By SNY

May 18, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

My daughter is getting out of public school next year. She is going back to private, christian school. My daughter has been in private school since she was 3 years old. This is the first year that she has been in public school and I decided back in August that this was it. I will go broke before I let her step foot back into the public school system. My son is 3 years old and he will never see the public school system.

Leia, I’m glad that you have high expectations for the kids in your class but guess what, not all kids can meet those expectation. So what do you do with the ones that don’t, ignore them, forget about them? They have feelings just like everyone else. Don’t you think that they know they need more help than others? How do you think they feel? Thankfully, my daughter doesn’t need any help. But I have to be realistic, she is only going into the 4th grade. But, if she does need extra help later, at least she will be in a place where they care and they will do their best to help her. Not leave her out to dry and say, oh well!

Manny,

It is your “job” to get the concept through to the kids. You need to try other than one method. What is wrong with you? Do you think that if you teach a concept and the kids don’t get it, that it is their problem. They’re kids. Help them!! It isn’t hard to understand. Tell me this, if it isn’t your job, then whose is it?

By SET

May 18, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

I hope something good happens and Ms Benson’s problems are solved.

We do know that individuals who have problems keeping up become noticed at age of puberty. The learning gap widens then - as the school subjects become more abstract and less concrete.

I’m not willing to blame any teacher for the failure of a segment of her or his class. If none of the class can show any exposure to a subject we can look at the teacher. If some of the class is deficient and most of them progress normally - other factors may be at play that have nothing to do with the teacher. IQ for one.

A teacher with a free hand can get extraordinary performance out of weak students. Those days are gone. Our public school teachers are no longer free to use “unpleasant” tactics.

7th grade is one of the points where the kids take different paths.

By oldteacher

May 18, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

SNY, I am so sorry that you feel that public school teachers are uncaring. Yes, I know there are a few, but they are few. I bet that even some of the ones who have not been very nice on this blog are wonderful caring teachers. See, we have to smile every day and pretend like we love everyone and always be fair. It isn’t always easy and sometimes frustrations run over here. Good luck with your children and their schooling.

By SNY

May 18, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

oldteacher,

Thank you for your well wishes. I am actually a product of public school (in VA), but these days, I just don’t trust the public school sector to do right by my children and by my standards. Maybe when teachers want to be teachers again I’ll come back. Like I said earlier, I went to college to get my degree to become a teacher but it was not for me. I know it is hard but that is no excuse to give up on these kids. Either you want to teach or you don’t. All of these headaches come with teaching. Take it or leave it. For some of the teachers on this blog, they should leave it. I am not going to risk my child ending up in one of your classes. I would end up in jail. Some of you should not be teachers. That just my humble opinion.

By luvs2teach

May 18, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

SNY - sometimes what comes through on the blogs isn’t a lack of caring, but a total frustration of being blamed for everything that is wrong in piblic school education.

Awhile ago, I posted about the difference in teaching and learning - they are not synonymous. Teaching is the active process of presenting the material. Here is where teachers need to be creative and use “best practices” (an educationalese term I’m not fond of, but it works).

Learning is the active process of working through the material to the point where it gets into your long term memory and can be accessed easily. No teacher can do that for a child. The child must do the work of learning.

So many kids today think they learn through osmosis - simply sitting in class and half paying attention isn’t going to do it for them. As I said the other day, they are passive comsumers of education just like they are passive consumers of entertainment.

I blame part of it on the movement away from rote memorization - a topic touched on in the calculator debate. Granted, too much memorization is bad, but the mental discipline that a child learns through having to memorize (a poem, multiplication tables, state capitals, etc) is good mental training. We threw the baby out with the bath water on that one, IMHO.

When children don’t do well, I don’t know if it’s because they don’t understand or don’t care. If they never speak up, I assume it’s that they don’t care. With over 120, it’s hard to do otherwise.

By jim d

May 18, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this

MST in Dekalb,

I think at times we all fall into the blame game here. It’s easy to do. I think deep down we all know that it takes a joint effort, admin working with teachers, teachers working with students and parents working with all. I’d say if any one part of that breaks down the blame belongs to all of us. Most of you teachers do a hell of a job, and not one I’d care to take on.

So while I may seem at times critical of what a few do, overall I support you and your efforts.

By jim d

May 18, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

L2T,

Maybe you should stop teachin then and start learnin them youngins. :-)

By luvs2teach

May 18, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

LOL, jim d - What I need to do is invent a magical machine that will dump the knowledge in their heads - kind of like the uploading in The Lawnmower Man or The Matrix!

Of course then I would render myself obsolete…like 5 and 1/4 inch floppies…

By SET

May 18, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

Jim is right about teachers. Philosophy aside, all the teachers I meet work as hard as they can, to do as much as they can for the kids. They have them for blocks of 50 minutes or so - 25 or 30 to a class all day long. Plus they do recordkeeping as they work.

Our public school teachers have to work within the rules of their school district - For people who are on an assembly line, they do what they can with the kids. They have no control of the student selection or retention. Some kids will fall behind. When you mix bright and slow, it happens. It’s up to the parent to get extra tutoring if kids need it.

By jim d

May 18, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

L2T

if we could find a way to load it on an MP3 player we’d both be able to retire.

By Leoa

May 18, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

SNY - I reread all of my posts, and I still don’t see where you concluded that I’m uncaring. In fact, I make myself more available to the students than most teachers do. How is that uncaring? I just get tired of teachers having to be the scapegoats for a flawed system, flawed parents, and flawed kids.

By luvs2teach

May 18, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this

Jim d - or if we made it into a video game! Then our kids could live nicely off their inheritance!

By Lora B of Cobb County

May 23, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this

My child failed the 8th grade math CRCT as well. However, she has had a B average in middle school and has been selected for honors science. Obviously she is a bright student. I had concerns when I received her score for last year which was a 300. I approached her school administration and math teacher at the beginning of this year with concerns but received assurance my concerns would be addressed. She took the practice tests, was present for all in-school review but missed the mark by 2 points!

How does this happen!!! I still can’t get an answer and FULLY blame the school system for failing my child. She had three differnt math teachers in 7th grade and 2 different math teachers in 8th grade. Our kids recieve no training in test taking skill or study habits for the “new education” system they are in today.

In our case we did everything possible. Checked iParent everyday, communicated with teachers, reviewed homework.

This school has not met the no child left behind requirements for the past two years. I fully support her teachers and feel school administration and school board FAILED miserably.

What’s more pathetic is 26% of the 8th grade class at her school did not meet the minimum requirements for CRCT’s. This is staggering and althought parents should take responsibility so should teachers and administration.

By luvs2teach

May 23, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this

Lora - why did your child have so many teachers? Did teachers leave mid-year or have pregnancies? That’s terrible for your child’s consistency. I know that I have trouble with transiency, and kids missing material that I may have covered while their last teacher didn’t - then they NEVER get it!

By Leia

May 23, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this

Lora B - by the time your child was in the 8th grade, she should have taken MANY standardized tests. How can you say that she was not “trained” in test taking skills? And, to fully blame the school for “failing your child” is ludicrous!

As I’ve said before on this blog - the CRCT is a joke, and the only students who don’t pass it are the ones who either did not try (Christmas tree’d the Scantron), or the ones who are severely deficient in basic math skills.

I’m curious as to why your daughter had so many teachers. Did you have her moved around, or did the teachers leave in the middle of the year? If your claim that 26% of the 8th graders failed the CRCT is true - I can see why the teachers may have bailed mid-year.

By stressed parent

May 24, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this

I think the state is to involved in the wrong area of our schools. Do away with two many people walking around and buy textbooks. If you pass your class there is no reason for the state to hold the CRCRT against our teachers. You know there are bad teachers to maybe they should be fired if our kids don’t pass. We do pay them to educate our kids.

By streeed parent

May 24, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this

To Lora B.of Cobb County No child lefted behind is a joke all by itself.

By Teachers are just there for a paycheck

May 24, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

I wanted to quickly get this comment out. This has become a match between the parent and teacher about who’s fault or problem it is to pass this test. I am a firm believer that since I have finished school over 10 years ago, that the teachers care more now about the paycheck and not educating our kids. It’s unfortunate that when you walk into a middle school that you can tell the students from the teachers due to not only appearance, but speach. No one takes pride in making sure that what our tax dollars pay YOU for, you don’t do. It takes a village to raise a child and it used to be that way. The CRCT is a joke and it is ridiculous!!! There is a school right now in Dekalb County with only 3, 5th grade classes. Out of the 83 kids in the 5th grade, ONLY 28 passed both parts. You tell me what the problem is?? It’s defintely not the students.

By luvs2teach

May 24, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

To “Teachers are just there for a paycheck”:

You are WRONG. We are not there for the paycheck. We’re there for the summers off.

Please get your insults right next time.

By luvs2teach

May 24, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

I was thinking about the comment “Teachers…paycheck” made.

S/he’s right about one thing - parents and teachers are duking it out - meanwhile, little Johnnie is sitting there with a grin on his face, knowing that while we are fighting with each other, we are not paying attention to him!

Kids pit their parents against each other all the time - this is no different.

By Teacher, Too

May 24, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

Okay, there are probably SOME teachers who are there because of the hours, time-off, and perceived “easy” paycheck. However, there are MANY teachers who work VERY hard at teaching their students, often despite parents and kids who are apatheic to education. I will also note that there are plenty of teachers who thought it would be easy, and left mid-year because it wasn’t the cake-walk the public often perceives teaching to be.

There are so many complex issues regarding education that it is unfair to make sweeping generalizations about teachers. Yes, there are some exceptional teachers, some terrible teachers, and many teachers who work hard to be successful with their students- just like in any other profession.

But, for schools to be truly successful, there must be a collaboration with parents, students, and teachers, and everyone must be held accountable. The problem with NCLB is that only teachers and administrators are held accountable- nothing about the students or the parents.

Think about it this way- attendance is a component of NCLB- whose responsibility is it for the child to come to school? The teachers? The administrators? If parents allow their kids to be absent for 15,20,30 or more days, how are the students supposed to learn their content? Yet, in middle grades, there is no consequence for attendance.

Just a few random thoughts that somewhat relate to the topic.

Happy Wednesday- two more days to go until parents have their kids 24/7 for the next nine weeks!

By jim d

May 24, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

Teach too,

I think you give way to much credit to the kids and not enough responsibility to the adults to act like adults. This would include school administrators, teachers and parents. Oops almost forgot, leave us not forget the politico’s that passed all these asinine laws that hamstring administrators, unduly burden teachers and just irritate the hell out of parents wanting their children to recieve an education.

By Teacher, Too

May 24, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

jim d- I totally agree with you. Parents often make excuses for their child instead of assigning consequences. Back to parents wanting to be friends instead of parents.

Teachers do the same thing. I don’t, though, and I make no apologies for it. I am an old-school strict teacher, but between classes I am friendly with the kids. I keep the line between teacher and student. Guess what- for the most part, the kids respect that I set boundaries for them.

By Teacher_Guy

May 24, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

With the tests being administered in 3rd, 5th and 8th Grades, I am seeing a lot of bottlenecking in these grade levels. Example - at my school more than 50% of 5th Graders and a little less than 50% of 3rd Graders failed the CRCT. Some will benefit from summer school, but some will undoubtedly be retained, as per GA law. What isn’t talked about, though, is the practice of just passing students through 1st, 2nd, and 4th Grades, with the feeling that if the child is going to be retained, it will be in 3rd or 5th. As a 5th Grade teacher, I expect my students to come to me with a foundation on which to build. All too often, though, I must go back to 3rd or 4th Grade material in order to even think about getting them on course for 5th Grade work. Next year I can count on having 5th Grade retainees AND a host of socially promoted 4th Graders that do not belong in a 5th Grade classroom. Oy vey.

By P** Off Parent

May 26, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

First off, this law in Georgia has nothing to do with the “NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND” bill. I know a student that was on Honor Roll all year. The same day his parents received his fourth honor roll certificate of the year, they also received a retention letter(because he scored 797 out of 800 on the reading portion of the crct). I don’t know what is in the water in the state of Georgia, but you guys need to start drinking bottle water. Because this law is backwards and unethical.

By Donna Young

May 26, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

No, Both of my eight graders did not pass the test and I did not find out until the last day of school when I called to talk to the principal. This is very frustrating because the children did not start preparing for the test until Feburary this year and then took the test in April. Now both have to go to summer school. How can I prepare them for the next test.

By SET

May 26, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

Maybe I’m incorrect, but aren’t these reading pass rates on the test set at the lowest common denominator?

If a child can even manage that score they need to be retained or sent to summer school.

It hardly matters what their grades are. Grades are subjective anyway. And if they can’t manage the minimum cutoff on the readng test, the grades were wrong.

What percentage of the total takers passed the reading test, anyway?

By Michelle

May 29, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

M Benson-I know you are hurt, frustrated and angry. However the best thing to do now is try to help your child pass the CRCT this summer.

Not everyone is a “Textbook” learner. I could not just look at a book, take notes and “get it”. I needed to see it worked out and a lot of hands on activity. I didn’t get into Harvard, but I did get my college degree.

Just because your child has a different learning style or does not learn the same way in Math as in social studies does not mean s/he is dumb, that you are a poor parent, or that the school is awful. Also, your child might know the information, but could have had anxiety about the test and that is why s/he failed. Did you know that most students pass it the second time? did you know that they get to take the test 3 times?

When we start blaming it takes the focus of the real problem and that is that the child has to pass the CRCT.

Regardless of all that…What is your game plan to help him/her pass? What if it doesn’t “click” in summer school? Here are some suggestions:

1) visit www.aaamath.com (http://www.aaamath.com)- Click on 8th grade. This sight has lots of activities. their is also www.aplusmath.com and my favorite www.math.com (http://www.math.com)this site has practice sheets. Get him/her to see the fun side of math.

2) Get a tutor- Call local High Schools in another county (Dekalb teachers leave on Wednesday 5/31/06) and see if they have the name of a student who tutors. It will be less expensive than having someone who does it for a living and your child will relate better to someone closer to his own age.

I suggest going to another county for two reasons A)They are just getting out of school and you can still reach someone and B) Your child won’t be embarressed if he/she runs into them in the hall.

3)Do a search for “Math U See”. It is a hands on math curriculum that someone in Lawrenceville created.

4)Do a search for a sample CRCT for 8th grade or visit one of the book stores and pick up the book.

Your child can pass it and with your help s/he will.

More Than a Conqueror!

Michelle www.mindyourbusiness.net