Get Schooled

By SNY

May 12, 2006 08:12 AM | Link to this

Depending on the age limit of the kids she is teaching, she needs to get real. The younger kids are only going to learn if they are enjoying what is being taught. You don’t have to use the same lyrics as our culture does. BTW, why make our culture sound so bad?!! Use the beats. That’s really all most kids listen to anyway. I have my 8 year old use beats and put poems and work to the beats that she likes. It actually works wonders. If she doesn’t like the culture then maybe she should be teaching in Iowa or Wyoming somewhere. But she needs to understand that we are everywhere and so is the “culture” she hates so much. Make learning fun. Some kids can’t sit still for an hour. My 8 year old needs to sit on her leg to concentrate and that has been a problem for her public school teacher. In private school, it was never a problem (1 reason we are going back next year). The public school system wants these kids to act exactly the same and they are not. She needs to understand that when these kids go home, they are not part of her class anymore, they are a product of where they came from and that is not their fault. She sounds very angry to me and I’m sure the kids feel it. With that atmosphere, no one is going to be learning anything from her.

By V for Vendetta

May 12, 2006 08:20 AM | Link to this

Nothing to say but Amber is right.

The very IDEA of brining “hip-hop” into the classroom is ridiculous. It’s right up there with “ebonics”. The sooner intelligent black Americans turn their collective backs on the “hip-hop culture”, the better. I firmly believe in freedom of speech, so I by no means think hip-hop should be targeted. I think it is up to blacks across the Country to say they are tired of being portrayed in that way, they are tired of kids killing each other, they are tired of this general attitude. But hip-hop in the classroom? Please.

By dan

May 12, 2006 08:23 AM | Link to this

SNY you are right, we should lower the bar instead of making them conform. I can’t wait till they get a job…… Forshizel.

By another teacher

May 12, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this

The teacher who wrote this is teaching high school, not 8 year olds. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for high school students to be able to understand that there may be different social rules at home than at school.

By Kym

May 12, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this

The very idea that a parent thinks it is okay that the child cant sit still or that the child should not be expected to sit still and peform their class work in a fashion that does not disrupt others or the learning process is insane. No all children dont learn the same way. But in a educational environment booty dancing has no place. An what about the parents who dont let their children listen to it at home. Should they be forced to have it exposed to at school? Bad enough the other kids do it but now so that one child can learn effectively we have to expose them all. Hip-Hop is music, not a reflection of culture. An if it is a reflection of black culture then I am throughly ashamed. Because all of the song you hear now are not really reflecting on positive images are they? I am with Dan what happens when these children get into the workforce? You cant tell the boss excuse me I need to take a pause and booty bounce across the room. An by the time most of these kids are adults and in the workforce they will have no education, no coping skills, and no future. Because everyone is telling them “keep it real.” Please. How about get real.

By Mark

May 12, 2006 08:43 AM | Link to this

this ain’t got nothing to do with killing or racial issues, just whether or not hip hop should be brought in the classroom. my opinion, as a 15 year old in class right now listening to rap, that its will not be a good idea. yeah, i might have just contradicted myself, but being in a public school, most of my classmates have no control and will act as wild as they can get as soon as something like that is introduced. i can listen to hip hop on my mp3 player and still be as calm as i can be. the students that have no control greatly outnumber the students who do, and it will be a horrible idea for hip hop to be brought in school. maybe in some dance classes, or p.e. where we are allowed to move around and be active, but in an academic class, HELL NO.

By dan

May 12, 2006 08:44 AM | Link to this

KYM that was “off the Chain” My feeling exactly. Seems as ridiculous as No Child left behind. Ok, maybe it isn’t that ridiculous

By Lee

May 12, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this

She doesn’t have to bring it into the classroom. All she has to do is open the window and wait for one of those “ghetto blasters” to drive by at 150 decibels.

Seriously, go to lyrics.com or one of the other sites that provide the lyrics to these “songs.” We just had two blogs related to a girl who was suspended for singing a song about shooting her teacher. Wait until they get a load of “gansta rap” crap.

Speaking of which, I grew up listening to entertainers such as Smokey Robinson and the Miracles, the Temptations, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Al Green, et. al. What happened to “Soul Music”? Course, the “Pop” music today is crap as well….

By Jeff

May 12, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this

SNY,

YOU need to get real. Any student of music can tell you that on songs that have both music and lyrics, if you listen just for the “music”, you WILL learn the lyrics. And in the case of hip hop, TRUST me, those kids know the words to every rap song imaginable. (And quote most of it in class.)

I’m not saying I don’t use hip-hop in class, I do. But I don’t use its vulgar and demeaning aspects. (Matter of fact, I generally use hip-hop to degrade hip-hop! (Classic: Kid is talking about drugs or some other such crap, making a lot of money. I quote Tupac’s “Changes”: Yeah, but you made it in a SLEAZY way!)

By thelight

May 12, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this

I can’t even beleive this was a thought in someones mind. I guess when you have teachers as crappy as ours this is the kind of crap you get. It’s a terrible idea to lower the bar and bring that crap into the classroom.

By Jeff

May 12, 2006 09:00 AM | Link to this

BTW: I agree in principle with much of what the original poser said. I’ve just found that it amazes kids that a guy can listen to hip hop as I do and NOT be involved with the lifestyle AT ALL.

By SNY

May 12, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this

My post only included what goes on in my home. My daughter does listen to the beat of the music. She also puts little raps together to help her study. For her it is fun and it teaches her different ways to study. My only point was that it CAN be a good thing. You don’t have to bring in the lyrics, bring in the beat and let the kids have some fun while they are learning.

My thoughts about my daughter sitting on her leg were totally misunderstood. My daughter does not bother anyone sitting on her leg to concentrate. Not everyone, including myself, can sit straight up. If a person is not comfortable, they are not paying attention. Why is that so hard for some people to understand? Children are people and they have feelings to!!

By JPE

May 12, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

I am black, in my 20’s, and a hip hopper by night, yet by day, I am a working professional. I agree with some of the teachers comments. If a child needs a beat to learn, then that is something the parent can do at home with the childs homework after school. However, in the classroom, we need to set a learning environment that is universe throughout all grade levels and all school systems. I am from the hood and hip hop plays a big part of my life. I love hip hop. But I leave hip hop inside my house and inside my car when it comes to stepping out into the real world. I was not able to hippity hop my way into society. If you make a career out of hip hop that is fine, but a separation needs to be between the reality and arts. Too many black youths who have the smarts to achieve in life (the legal way), hold themselves back by not separating Reality and the Arts (yes hip hop is an art). Parents step up, and do not expect teachers to walk in the classroom talking slang and shuck and jive in the classroom.

By A Music Teacher

May 12, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

As a high school band director, I am asked all the time to play more music that everyone can get “crunk” to, which basically means to play the latest hip-hop tunes with the most vulgar lyrics. Anyone who thinks kids just listen to the beat and not the lyrics is mistaken, because these kids KNOW the words. When we have played some hip-hop ditties in the stands at football games or at pep rallies, I have seen kids go absolulely wild, just as Mark suggested in an earlier post. That type of response CANNOT be illicited solely by the “beat.”

It is very frustrating that kids increasingly turn their noses up at music that doesn’t have the “right beat” or a three-note hook repeated over and over. I am not going to dumb-down my approach to music for the sake of “getting crunk,” but fighting that battle becomes more wearisome each year. Maybe I should move to Wyoming or Iowa as SNY suggested. I wonder what it takes to get them crunk?

By To Mark

May 12, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

Mark, you said it all. The kids that can’t control themselves outnumber the ones who can.

Hip hop is fine to listen to on free time, but for high schoolers it is an invitation to get out of control.

Although my mom does mulitplication “rapping” with her 3rd graders. They think its fun. But she’s not rapping about killing folks either.

By JPE

May 12, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

I am black, in my 20’s, and a hip hopper by night, yet by day, I am a working professional. I agree with some of the teachers comments. If a child needs a beat to learn, then that is something the parent can do at home with the childs homework after school. However, in the classroom, we need to set a learning environment that is universe throughout all grade levels and all school systems. I am from the hood and hip hop plays a big part of my life. I love hip hop. But I leave hip hop inside my house and inside my car when it comes to stepping out into the real world. I was not able to hippity hop my way into society. If you make a career out of hip hop that is fine, but a separation needs to be between the reality and arts. Too many black youths who have the smarts to achieve in life (the legal way), hold themselves back by not separating Reality and the Arts (yes hip hop is an art). Parents step up, and do not expect teachers to walk in the classroom talking slang and shuck and jive in the classroom.

By Buy Danish

May 12, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

thelight,

A fine example you are, using crap three times in one sentence!

Sheesh.

By JPE

May 12, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this

I am black, in my 20’s, and a hip hopper by night, yet by day, I am a working professional. I agree with some of the teachers comments. If a child needs a beat to learn, then that is something the parent can do at home with the childs homework after school. However, in the classroom, we need to set a learning environment that is universe throughout all grade levels and all school systems. I am from the hood and hip hop plays a big part of my life. I love hip hop. But I leave hip hop inside my house and inside my car when it comes to stepping out into the real world. I was not able to hippity hop my way into society. If you make a career out of hip hop that is fine, but a separation needs to be between the reality and arts. Too many black youths who have the smarts to achieve in life (the legal way), hold themselves back by not separating Reality and the Arts (yes hip hop is an art). Parents step up, and do not expect teachers to walk in the classroom talking slang and shuck and jive in the classroom.

By Former Teacher

May 12, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this

I am a white teacher who taught African American students for many years. I liked my students a great deal, and I think that many of them liked me. However, they didn’t expect me to “rap”. The very few times I tried it (they were teaching me) it was all a joke, and we all had fun for a while (at my expense). Students need people they can relate to as role models and nurturing figures. I was great at caring about my students, and that was what mattered to them.

Unfortunately, I found that it was mainly the “curriculum specialists” and other supervisory adults who came up with the bright idea of having teachers use rap as a teaching strategy. The students themselves have much more common sense. Like parents, teachers are supposed to guide and assist students, not be their “friends.”

Former Teacher

By Jim

May 12, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this

Absolutely not!

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

Amber is right, and SNY, YOU are the one who should be moving to Wyoming! I am not a teacher, just a mom of three college students who went K-12 in public school. Culture, music and art all have their place in school through theater, art and music classes, where students can express their creativity and their culture. But in the academic core classes like language arts, social studies, math, and science classes the focus should be on establishing and maintaining a disciplined learning environment. This requires respect from the students, i.e. no idle student chit chat, text messaging, or listening to your I-pods, no booty dances, derisive behavior or dancing. Time, place and manner rule our lives, and the classroom is not the time or place for the hip-hop manner.

By EW

May 12, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this

I’m an educator, I’m 33 years old and I have two daughters, unfortunately my love for hip hop is fading faster than a speeding bullet. When I used to love her, (her being hip hop) the music presented society’s views from an unspoken people, however because the hip hop artist has fallen in the trap of the multimedia corporations they have sold their souls and people for some jewelry and cars.

Any person cannot now justify how hip hop has evolved into the total degradation of women, and especially women of color. It is embarrassing; however we continue to accept this. Our so called leaders of African Americans fear the reprisals of speaking out against what is totally destroying our children. The lack of parental structure and the fact that you can hear parents and children listening to the lyrics together is an indication of how far we have to go.

Should hip hop be in the classroom, depending on which hip hop you want to represent. There’s positive hip hop, however you must find it. To this teacher, I would say to implement hip hop in her classroom she has to be creative, innovative and realize that hip hop is not only what she stated above.

Hip hop can teach (especially in high school) hard lessons in life about the wrong choices. The expectations should not be lowered, however the expectations of the teacher to try to implement aspects of the culture in which she teaches is non negotiable. Hip hop is not the only part of African American culture, what about jazz? Music and sports are not the only aspects of African American culture…

I also hope that Amber is not generalizing African American youth based on her experiences in her school. I would shutter to think that if my daughter walks in there not with the attitude or the expectations of hip hop in her class will she be treated just like the others….

By SNY

May 12, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

Karen,

What does idle chit chat, text messaging, or listening to your I-pods have to do with hip hop?

Are you all saying that all children should sit still and be the same person all day long in class. Should there be no difference between the children. My comments are for activities with younger children. Sort of like what Former Teacher is talking about. If you read what she wrote, the kids had FUN!! School should have some aspect of fun to it!! I’m not saying to use it as a learning tool for any subject, just change your day around, have some fun. If you find your kids aren’t interested in what you are doing, take a 5 minute break. I never meant for people to think that I wanted teachers to substitute actual teaching for dance lessons. I have a child and want her to be as educated as you people want your kids to be. But I also want her to understand that life is short and if you need to take a minute and step back, then do it. Lighten up people!!

By SET

May 12, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

I have seen too many recording artists try rap with unexpected success to say that the singing style by itself is the problem.

So if someone has 1st graders singing the alphabet - well, whatever works.

But using the ghetto fabulous personalities themselves or their music - No.

Educating ghetto kids includes teaching them that the popular lower class values and mores are wrong. Ebonics is wrong, the culture we distain is wrong - and why. Liberal whites are agast at this which is why they can’t properly educate ghetto youth. Maybe “wrong” isn’t the word I’m looking for, I mean to say “bad”.

Not only are you not going to have contemporary rap playing at school because that is “bad”, but you are going to publicly correct their bad grammer and speech until they get it right. See, the whole point of school is to get the kids to stop dancing around the campfire and to join American Society.

By Anne

May 12, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

If a child needs a rap beat to learn, this is indicitive of the child being too involvled in a sub-culture that will only serve to further isolate them from mainstream corporate Amercia. Isn’t the idea of an education to prepare our youth to be productive in the world, acccepted in the workplace and earn a good living? This will only serve to widen the gap and belief to some that people blacks and whites are really not alike in values and goals. This is equal to saying that the black kids cannot work in a structured setting, adhere to the standards colleges will expect of them and prove to some that the jobs these black kids get, the lucky ones that get the jobs in corporate Amercia, the jobs were given to you because of affirmative action, quotas and court orders and not because of you personal qualifications. Black parents need to take more acountabilty in regards to the culture their children adopt if you want them to be taken seriously. You cannot continue to sit back and cry foul when you child is not accepted as a responsible productive person if that child submerged in a culture (rap) thats synonymous with violence and the degrdation of women. When a rapper goes to prison, his/her record sells spike immediately. You cry rascism much faster than you cry that rap promotes violence. Parents, untimately you and you alone are responsible for the type of child you put forth to the world, take an active role in your childs life, give them a decent chance for survival, you are all they really have.

By Decaturparent

May 12, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe this is even a debate. I sure would have liked it if they had played Zepplin and Hendrix in class when I was in high school… given that it was our “culture.” Not a chance that it would happen though!

BTW, have any of y’all seen School of Rock? My kids love that movie!

By HStchr

May 12, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

EW- unfortunately, many of the rich, diverse, and wonderful artistic aspects of African-American culture have take a backseat to the glitz and glamour of hip-hop. It’s the “fad” of a generation, and even crosses cultural lines. It is an attitude that comes from the theme of so much of the music that is completely counterprodutive in school. I use rhythym and even a little rap in my teaching. I play music many days while we work,and I have exposed my kids to all sorts of music- from classical to jazz to many decades of “pop” music. They often roll their eyes and tell me the music is “LAAAAAAME”. While music has long been associated with increased success in learning, the sugject matter and general theme of hip-hop cannot, under any circumstances, be positively used in classrooms.

Regrettably, most of my African-American students have little or no understanding of their artistic roots, and don’t want to have that understanding. Their culture and music aren’t wrong, but their attitude towards history and broader understanding of their cultural heritage is. All races of students are that way these days.

By EW

May 12, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

Anne,

I agree with some of your comments however tone little fact you should know of, the highest demographic of people buying hip hop cd’s are young, middle and higher household income WHITE children. Anne,

I agree with some of your comments however tone little fact you should know of, the highest demographic of people buying hip hop cd’s are young, middle and higher household income WHITE children.

So here’s the question - what about the insurgence of the so called hip hop culture in white students, I see white students with all the above aspects of Amber’s email everyday… What about them?

So here’s the question - what about the insurgence of the so called hip hop culutre in white students, I see white students with all the above aspects of Amber’s email everyday… What about them?

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

SNY, I am talking about the party atmosphere that hip hop brings with it, which does not belong in the classroom. If you think rapping third graders is OK, then think about rapping high schoolers who only whant to have FUN! learning, who refuse to stay seated, to stay quiet, and they generally disrupt the class. The hip hop culture encompasses much more than just saying words to a beat. The problem in schools today is that the kids have lightened up and many do not take their education seriously, and they are just having fun until the bell rings. School is a job, and the FUN that some kids have at the expense of others does not make for a good learning environment for anyone.

By SW

May 12, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this

Let me see if I have this right. The black kids need hip hop to learn; they need 50 cent and his crunked teeth, his pants down to his privates with him saying the N word a hundred times on a CD and then they immulate this with going to the pawn shop and getting a grill, wearing a do-rag and pants hang to the private part and when I don’t want to hire this kid it’s because I am a racist?

By Patti Ghezzi

May 12, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

Decaturparent, having covered private schools for some years, I loved School of Rock. I caught the last bit of it on TV the other night and laughed just as hard as I did the first time.

By EW

May 12, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

Sorry for the multiple posts!

By MMM

May 12, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

Mark, thank you for posting. Sometimes we have a tendancy to pick on each other’s spelling and punctuation on this site. But your head and values are on so straight that I want to tell all the other regular posters that might make those comments that we should make sure you feel welcome to be a regular poster.

By E-lotto

May 12, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

i DO NOT THINK HIP HOP SHOULD be allowed in any class-room environment ,, there is a time and a place for things in this world ,, i love hiphop but not in any school environment ,, why as blacks we always want to take a short cut on anything,, our ancestors did not take any short cuts ,, we need to sweat sometimes in order to appreciate what we have ,, these kids you see now a days are being pacified and being raised by MTV and BET ,, they have no goals ,, the only motivation is Money and material things,, blacks need more Education not more music

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this

EW is correct, the fastest growing group of hip hop fans are WHITE kids. I guess hip hop is the counter culture movement among today’s kids. Back in my day counter culture was the peace and love hippie movement. Contrast that with the sex and violence of today’s hip hop culture. I’ll take peace and love any day.

By dan

May 12, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

What gets me is that mainstream culture has one set of values and beliefs and AA culture as a whole continues to go the other way. Then when the AA culture gets treated differently they play the race card. I am not saying that everybody should be the same but what I am saying is why would you want to start behind the 8 ball because you want to be so different. The mainstream culture keeps going forward. It is a fact that if two people are applying for a job and one is named Chiniqua and one is named Jared. I think, right or wrong, Jared will be taken more seriously. It is time for parents to say enough of hip hop it has been a long time since hip hop has done anything positive. Maybe I am nieve but it is how I feel.

By MIke

May 12, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

In the state of Georgia it might be better to consider bring reading, writing and arithmetic into the classroom.

Georgia’s children are getting the shaft when it comes to government schools. This shameful fact is demonstrated every time test scores are ranked.

Any distraction (be it hip-hop or Beethoven) should take a back seat to the fundamentals.

I have Georgia high school graduates applying for employment who cannot complete an application or add a column of four, two-digit numbers.

Go Dawgs!

By Sara

May 12, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

It is no wonder some of the local schools are requiring teachers re-apply for their teaching positions. The thought of allowing something like this is like the deaf leading the blind. Someone in the class must have at least half a brain.

By Dan

May 12, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this

I keep hearing that the fastest growing segment of hip hop fans are white kids. But that is grossly misleading, even assuming that is true it is still a small segment of the white kids so it doesn’t permeate that ‘society’ to the same degree and remains more of a lark or a temporary persona. In the black commuity despite having less total numbers it is a far greater percentage and therefore permeates that culture at a much deeper and permanent level. In either case though, there is no place for the great majority of hip hop in the classroom nor would there be for much of the edgier hard rock

By Mike

May 12, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

All these ganster rap losers is exactly the problem with black culture today. Brining it into the classroom will just make students thinks it’s acceptable. All this tough guy stuff is why violence is escalated and more of these rap losers don’t have job. It’s not a matter of racism. It’s a simple matter of if i owned a business i’d prefer to have a white kid in khakis and a polo in front of my customers then a black kid with baggy pants, tattos, and the inability to speak english instead of street slang. The more we allow rap into mainstreem society the worse it’s going to get.

By E-lotto

May 12, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

mike ,, choose and use your words correctly ,,i could take you to some place in georgia where the whites look just the same and at and speak just the same ,,so that generalization is a bunch of BS ,,i got tattooes and i speak slang and i do tech support for IBM my friend,,the difference is i know when to put on my white face and when to be myself ,,and by the way i work with some rednecks who listen to more rap than i do,, chew on that

By RS

May 12, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

I have read all of these comments, but it seems a majority of the people on here are ignorant to hip hop culture. Hip Hop was started as a way to educate and inform, and it still does to an extent. The problem is most kids today only listen to the garbage that does not follow that format; HOWEVER, the adults must be doing the same thing since you’re only speaking on the negatives of the music. There is more to hip hop than CRUNK music. We have a number of conscious rappers here in the South like Outkast, Cee-Lo, Killer Mike, and David Banner to name a few. Stop bringing up the dumb images like 50 Cent all the time, PLEASE.

Do I think it should be in the classroom? Only if it’s applicable to the subject at hand. But if the kids are in a class where they’re just writing papers, then I believe it would be ok to play some laid back Outkast or other hip hop with substance. My reasoning behind this is it gives a sense of comfort. Most study that way at home anyway, so why not?

I know some are going to disagree with me, so I’ll put it to you like this. Think about jobs you’ve had…Compare your productivity of jobs where you felt comfortable and could relate to others there to jobs where you were miserable because you felt out of place and always wished to be somewhere else? The same effect can be found in the classroom.

By Beccaann

May 12, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

You are right RS, I know absolutely nothing about the hip hop culture. If I thought some of the music lyrics could help kids read better, I might use it.

By kinderbabe

May 12, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

people are overclassifying here. all hip-hop is not negative, degrading and belittling. there are some positive artists and messages in the hip-hop industry. it is also racist to overgeneralize and equate hip-hop culture to “black” culture, as the two are not synonymous. as a kindergarten teacher, i have used hip-hop music to relate to and influence my five and six year old students. there is a song that an artist named “nas” penned called “i know i can” that my students found extremely motivational. all hip-hop music is not filled with violence and drug references.

By The Essence of Manhood

May 12, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

E-lotto, why do you find it necessary to use a racist term like “redneck”?

By V for Vendetta

May 12, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

Sara- funny you should mention that…

I saw on the news this morning (Channel 2 I believe) a report about that very same thing (the middle school in Dekalb that is one of the worst in the COUNTRY and is making the teachers re-apply).

They interviewed a parent in her car about the situation. The parent’s response was not what I found to be interesting, it was the fact that while she was talking to the reporter, her son was CLIMBING OUT THE PASSENGER WINDOW TO YELL AT HIS FRIENDS! The mom didn’t even turn her head. Pathetic. If that had been me, well, I wouldn’t have had a head after that little stunt because my mom would have knocked it clean off of my shoulders.

I’m sorry, I know that’s off topic, but I just found it to be a perfect example of what many people on this blog are constantly saying… with strong parental involvement, a school will thrive. With parents like the one on TV, well, we can all see the results of that.

By Gail

May 12, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Thanks RS for making a distinction between different kinds of hip-hop. Also, rap (especially gangsta rap) and hip-hop music are not the same thing. There are clean and nasty versions of both kinds. I hope no one is seriously thinking about bringing nasty rap into the high school classroom. As RS said, there are some positive hip-hop artists out there with positive messages.

Also, please stop equating Black culture with Ghetto culture. They are not the same. There are plenty of us blacks out here that do not espouse the values or ideas represented by the negative images we see in the media everyday.

By Jake

May 12, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Stop,look, and listen!! You will find that hip-hop is everywhere. It is part of American culture, it influences everyone whether you admit it or not. As for its use in the classroom, depends on the teacher. If your teaching principles won’t allow you use hip-hop as one of many creative methods to engage your students, then don’t do it. By the way, I am a Black Man, late 20’s, former teacher. It is hard to engage kids to learn because their parents suck. There has always been a backlash against school from teens, the difference is that parents did not allow you be terrible student and treat you like you are on the honor roll. Hip-hop gets a bad rap (pun intended) because record companies, and radio stations, and video channels push songs that have negative message. Hip-hop is like any other art form, it is driven by the life of the artist. What you hear on the radio is seldom the entire body of work, it sells the album. The good songs that have messages never get the airplay. This is America, sex, guns, and negative ish sells……. Booty,booty,booty, booty rockin everywhere!! Peace

By BigSquatch

May 12, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Yo Bigsquatch heah!

Dang, Amber you kountry-kitchen biscuit-eatin’-fool! Hip-Hop in the classroom? H-H-H-Hellz-yeah!

Amber- you so cranky. Sounds like you present in class, but you rather be sittin’ in traffic overbitin’ to Steve & Vickie.

All she seein’in hip-hop is prob. what her students see in her. The ugliez. Yea’ we got the crunk tracks that git nasty, the ones that keep my pants low, that keep my ride clean, the onez wheres I’m foulin’ mouthin’ the mic. But even BigSquatch know that ain’t fo’ the class room. You wouldn’t teach kidz about space by watchin’ Star Warz right? (But dang them Jawas and Ewoks is trippin’!)

Hey, there’z another side of hip-hop called consciousness- chek th’ flow of Talib Kwali, Mos Def, Common, and many others- That shiz is poetic, got voice, message, music, and still got the cred. They like the hip-hop version of that Tim McHee-Haw that get you all hot & flustered.

All you that so angry, prob the same folks wantin’ to pull Hairy Potterz out of school-Y’should be happy yo chidz readin’ at all- Happy the kidz got eyes to see, happy that he gonna be real Wizard someday!!!

Jus’ wait ‘til BigSquatch come into yo’ kidz classroom to teach about the dangerz of drugz and gunz- they’ll git mo’ hip-hop than they can handle…

By TROY

May 12, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

After reading all of the comments all I see is a lot of sterotyping: about rap music, black teenagers, the black culutre in general.

By Amber

May 12, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

Hey, Amber here. I haven’t even read all of the comments yet, but I just wanted to step in and say… SNY, you should have seen me at 8:15 this morning. I was out in the hall with my students doing the “lean back.” Well, trying to do it. I had a group of 5+ students gathered around me, absolutely laughing their heads off.
I do not see blacks as “they.” I see people of other heritages as my students, my colleagues, my friends. Am I angry? Yes. I’m angry that students choose to only celebrate the parts of their culture that put violence up on a pedestal. I’m angry that students think respectable figures of African American History are lame. I’m angry that students look up to gangsta rappers. You can’t throw the baby out with the bath water, and that’s not what I’m doing. Parts of black culture hurt blacks. Why can’t I hope that my students would study and admire elements of their culture that promote not only their own race, but all of humanity? I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing hip-hop beats into the classroom, if it was void of curse words. I wouldn’t be opposed to a student sitting on their leg, their arm, or their head if it helped them. What gets my goat is when students bring the worst parts of their culture into the classroom. This applies to white students, as well. I teach in South Carolina. I’m a redneck and I have redneck students. Now, redneck ain’t a bad thing. We work hard, we’ll give you the shirt off our backs. Stereotypically, we know how to fix cars. However, it’s imperative for me as an educator to realize that inherent to rednecks are the racism, alcoholism, and anger that sometimes come with them. I don’t allow this behavior from my white students. I think it’s a good idea to be aware of what hurts us, as individuals, as groups, as a society, to be honest about it, and to rise above it.

By Rebelyell

May 12, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

SARAH, you said:

“The thought of allowing something like this is like the deaf leading the blind.”

A blind person shouldn’t lead another blind person because neither can see. I deaf person cannot hear, but can see - therefore he could lead a blind person.

The expression is “the blind leading the blind” for the above-mentioned reason.

Not trying to be a jerk but thought you’d like to know. Now turn off the hip-hop and pay attention to the teacher.

By A1S

May 12, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

We had educational music in elementary school.It was called “School House Rock”. Remember Saturday mornings on ABC.

By Gail

May 12, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Okay, V I saw the exact report this morning on Channel 2 as well. And I had the same reaction, but after I thought about, I realized that if that mother had popped that idiot son on the air, we would be having a different discussion about how ignorant is was of her to do that. I prefer to think that she waited until the cameras were off and THEN popped him. :)

By Rebelyell

May 12, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

Another thought - No one came into my school playing the bagpipes and wearing a kilt in my mostly Irish neighborhood, telling us to “keep it real” by drinking at a pub every night and growing potatoes!

By atltoday

May 12, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

Former teacher hit it on the nail. Children in every community and school just need a teacher to relate to them. Many of their parents don’t listen to hip hop but there parents can relate to them. Understand hip hop is music and an art form. It is not our culture and it is not for evry african american either. don’t get it confused. I would never suggest that all white americans in the rural south need to be taught based on country music. how crude to even think such.

By T-Man

May 12, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

I agree that some Hip Hop has gotten out of hand. There are still some groups out there using good lyrics and some groups with bad lyrics. Hip Hop cannot be shoved in a box as one. Just like all types of music there are good and bad lyrics. Teachers who want to use Hip Hop in the classroom setting will have to search for the good and leave the bad. It’s funny how we all generalize in race, economic status, religion and what ever else we put in that box. To say all parts of Hip Hop are bad is to say all music is bad.

By BlindHomer

May 12, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

E-lotto makes a good point. The kids need to learn to put on their ‘white face’ at school like he does at IBM or they’ll be keeping it real at McD’s or the State Pen. And the schools and teachers should facilitate this. Preparing students for worthwhile futures means affording them the opportunity to relate to you, not the other way around. My professors at UGA didn’t put forth any effort to relate to me and neither does my boss. To succeed, I had to be able to relate to them.

By E-lotto

May 12, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

By The Essence of Manhood

if i affended you i apologize and for the record thats what they call themselves when we talk about issues like this my friend

By dan

May 12, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

Do you know what else is growing in popularity in American? Heroin. I could use that in my teaching.

By BigSquatch

May 12, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

SW from 10:20AM-

Jus’ cuz that feller got the doo-rag, the grill, likes showin’ off his privates, hangs out at the pawn shop, needs the hip-hop to learn, and you don’t gonna give him a job—that don’t make you a racist. It sounds like you one even without all that!

Jus’ cuz yo’ daughter wanna be like the fat dixie-chick, and loves sloppin’ down all that Zaxby’s, hangin’ out at the race track, tradin’ her lunch money fo’ meth, and dates a guy 2 yrs younger than her daddy— Just cuz I see this pork-chop and I ain’t gonna giver a job workin’ my street, that don’t make me racist either. I’m bidness man.

By hs sped

May 12, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Give them enough rope and eventually, they’ll hang themselves. Personally, I’m only concerned with my kids and their education. When things turn sour here, I’ll move on (maybe to the midwest). People, you need to stop worrying about those that make bad choices. Making bad choices will keep certain groups (low-life, trashy scum (of any color) that do not care about education and that use double negatives) out of the better colleges and the more desirable jobs. It keeps the competition down. I have to laugh when I read about ideas such as bringing hip hop into the classroom. Do it. Go for it. Do what you want with your kid. Smart people know what works and they will continue to move in that direction. Let the rest go. Let them do what they want. If you, as a parent or educator, feel that hip hop has a place in the classroom. Do it. Eventually this country will be very much segrated by the haves and the have nots. Segregation will not be by color, but by income. Parents, look out for your own kids.

By John

May 12, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

I also find it reprehensible that parents actually allow their children to listen to hip hop music with foul language and demeaning and sexist lyrics. But why should that surprise me?

Most of today’s parents aren’t much more than sperm and egg donors. Kids are in single “parent” households where being friends with your kid is more important than imparting advice, wisdom, respect for others, honesty, and moderation. No, today’s cool hip hop parent takes it in stride that her daughter is having sex at 12 and pregnant by 14 (isn’t that normal?) and doesn’t even check in on her sons who think that an education is “stupid” and something that “whitey” does.

Kids are latchkey at best and ignored at best. Parents either don’t care what their kids do, but defend the kid’s right to do whatever they want: murder, rob, rape, it doesn’t matter.

If Hip Hop is an art form then so is country music, rock music, punk and all others.

Funny, I just thought they were all different types of music.

Study the classics: Beethoven, Mozart, etc. and then when you get out on your own you can study whatever kind of new music style is popular. However, school is not the place for misogynistic noise!

By hs sped

May 12, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

Good one BlindHomer! That’s how it is and that’s what I teach my kids. My personal kids that is. I would get into trouble if I tried to teach my “student kids” anything other than the world owes them a living, they are always right, and if not, a lawyer can change that.

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

As I see it the schoolroom is the jobsite for kids K-12. On the job students are in class to learn to read and write, speak intelligently, and learn a variety of subjects that will prepare them for life after high school whether it’s college, training school, the military, or a job. When adults go to a job there are usually requirements for dress, appearance, personal expressions and behavior. The same standard applies to the schools. School is not the place to parade extracurricular interests whether it’s musical, fashion, political or religious culture (unless you are in a religious school). Students are in school to learn, and they can celebrate their culture after school. All students need to learn the correct time, place, and manner for their many activiites; working, studying, playing, praying, singing & dancing, competing or creating, and helping each other to grow.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

May 12, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

I wrote an entire piece defending RAP music. Just like many of you defended Harry Potter. However, I decided against it.

In my opinion, introducing RAP would not hurt. No one wants to promote bad things to kids. Not all “RAP” is about degrading women or killing people. The old school rap was very invigorating. I have also found several new millennium rappers to be very inspiring.

My whole point about this topic is the LACK of INNOVATION in the majority of GA School Systems. The most disappointing thing about education too me, is the attitude of many of the teachers on this blog.

I would love a survey on Education to be completed by the Students in GA. The kind of survey given each semester/Qtr, at Colleges and Universities across the country. A survey for each teacher, by the students and another for education overall. Children always speak their true feelings. I think some of the results would be very interesting.

By John

May 12, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

If hip hop culture ISN’T something embraced and condoned by black culture, then tell me why you don’t hear country music singers talking about “knocking that b%$ch up” or “bust a cap in his a#$”? Why don’t all the kids listening to punk have mouths full of gold and diamond encrusted teeth and call them “grills”?

Why is it that black culture via hip hop/rap puts so much emphasis on showing off what money can buy instead of emphasizing how saving money can provide a stable home life and provide for a comfortable retirement?

By hal

May 12, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

hs_sped,

Did you ever learn about the Bolshevik Revolution? Or even take a history class? If the divide between the haves and the have nots becomes too large, eventually the have nots wipe out the haves.

I agree, look out after your kids and put them first. Put them in the best schools, give them the best upbringing, teach them right. But also teach them that “letting the rest go” has destroyed some of the largest empires in our time.

By atltoday

May 12, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

john you missed it….all subcultures have their negativity but you can not say that blk culture is promoting any of the things that the so-called hip hop culture is doing. so much of what you see is completely tv and stereotypical and not indicative of hip hop in general.

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

Amazed, I don’t think the schools lack innovation. I think school administrations are holding the teachers hostage and preventing them from doing their jobs. School admins have take the ability to enforce discipline away from the teachers. School admins require that teachers coddle students who refuse to learn, and then require that they pass the poor performing students along to be another teacher’s problem. School admins require that teachers accept students who are not ready, able, or willing to learn, and that’s largely because of absent or indifferent parent interest in their kids. Everyone wants to blame someone else for school failure, when everyone, parents, school admins, and students need to take on the responsibility for learning.

By DeKlb Resident

May 12, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

It’s in vogue now for rappers to insult Oprah. 50 Cent (what an idiot…have you heard this guy try to talk, have you lestened to him speak…what planet is he from)Ludicrus…whatever his name is, they’re all blasting her in songs now, apparently it’s the hip thing to do now in songs. Is it because she is the epitome of the white culture? Its what they say. Is that because she is rich, powerful, successful beyond imagination, brilliant and articulate. In recent polls of black high school students 50 Cent (this is why some of use him as an example)was way above Oprah as a perceived role model while Dr. Condeleeza Rice was at the very bottom. I am aware that a huge chunk of rap music indeed is bought by and played by our white youths also, but they don’t seem to adopt the gansta lifestyle to go along with it. There seems to be some type of demarcation in regards to the white youth, they’ll buy and listen but not give into the lifestyle 100%. Many of out black youth seem to think you have to totally embrace the lifesyle, to really be engrossed in the lifestyle or you’re phony. I see more and more black adults doing this too. I was so surprised last week when I noticed an SUV pull up in front of my work place and the vehicle was vibrating with rap music that was so loud it had to be harmful to the ears, the language blasting our was just down right foul, nasty words and who got in the vehicle? The wife of the driver is one our top executive directors and I must admit I look at her in a different light now knowing what type man she married. I have a hard time taking her serious now.

By John

May 12, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

atltoday - you seem to be heralding hip hop as some sort of religion. Hip hop IS a type of music right? And from what I’ve been informed, it’s apparently a “culture” too, is that right? And from your post, apparently, hip hop has provided a moral and societal benefit to people….

Is this correct?

If so, what benefits have been realized as a result of hip hop? low riding pants? Ebonics?

I don’t understand a culture (any culture) that would not attempt to police itself - clean the riff raff out. As a white man, I’m incensed when other whites do offensive things like put on white sheets as the KKK or use the “N” word. However, black culture doesn’t police itself. Even among my black friends, when a black public figure (political or entertainment) gets some bad press, my friends defend them. “Oh, that’s because whitey is trying to keep him down.” “Well, that’s just the way he/she is.” or “You know people are just different.”

It seems to me, from news reports on such, that black people are quick to scream racism, but reluctant to criticize their own kind for problems within their culture. Whites are expected to not only vilify their own for racism, but accept racism dealt to other whites by blacks, but ALSO be very introspective of our culture and race.

Now, if that isn’t a one way street then I don’t know what is…..

By Joe

May 12, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

I’ll stick with my country music. My wife and dog may have left me but at least as soon as I make it big and leave the hood I won’t get shot in an Escalade with $15,000 spinner wheels, wearing enough bling to outshine the sun and spark more retaliation killings. Rap is a lifestyle, like it or not. How many counrty artist, or rock and roll for that matter, go around shooting and killing all the time. When I see adults in a car blasting rap with kids in the car, it saddens me to think these kids start life off with two strikes out.

By BigSquatch

May 12, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this

Jo hnny_J-robotic,

Them kountry folk don’t talk about smackin’ a ‘ho? That Jonny Cash-money didn’t singabout killin’ a man? I snuck into that movie— it should a been called “White Ray, but I ain’t blind!”

Ain’t no kountry folk ever sung about his truck, or squeezin’ his weasel, being drunk? Shiz, kountry starz were the kingz of bling- All them rhinestones on every article of clothin’, them snugged up pants that showin’ them members… Crazy Hank and smashin’ bottles o’ So’Co, Dolly P bustin’ out some tig’ol’b’z

You check out some Cribz on MTV and see the new punk life too- all bling caddiez, ladiez by the pool, fridge’ full of Cris’—

Emphasis on retirement? Peeps can’t see retirement- shiz is what my broker call the intangiblez or somethin’. Shiz, the smart onez, own other bidness’s too. TI own something like 40+ cribs in ATL, MasterP tried buyin’ the power co. in Lousiana, JD got some restaurant that just horrible, and even BigSquatch got his own line of Squatch related hair care products.

Johnny J- you like the Ewoks—straight up trippin’!

By WAR EAGLE

May 12, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this

hip hop should not be played-PERIOD. Degrades women, bad wrods, bad grammar and it all sounds the same-it is not music-it is trash. Kids want a beat to liesten to-put on the Beatles, Elvis, the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, the Tams, the Penguins etc. Songs that actually allow you to hear the words, and differentiate between songs. Kids need to learn how to speak correctly rather than play-name that rap artist.

By A father

May 12, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

If you think for one minute rap does not endorse violence you should be spade or nutered and not produce offspring. Who can even name all the rappers that are rotting in the gorund dead or behind bars? Pull your heads our from your butts people. Is it not true the number one rap seller just had his bodyquard killed last week and he had to go before a judge for anger management. Angry? Ya think? Guess who had an increse in record sales after the death? I rest my case.

By hs sped

May 12, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

Hey Hal…I read Animal Farm. Does that count? ha ha ha No, I don’t remember too many of my history classes (from college 15 years ago)!!

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

May 12, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

Yes, you can blame the Administrations, the politicians, the parents, the students and the teachers.

I still believe that schools lack INNOVATION, because they believe that ONE SOLUTION FITS ALL. Many of the teachers, who blog here weekly, have shown their lack of INNOVATION or acceptance of changing cultures. When I say culture I’m not talking about black or rap culture. I’m talking about methods and the differences in the various generations. We can’t continue to teach as if we were still in the 50’s and 60’s. If that were so, we would still be teaching in one room buildings with “ONE” teacher teaching all of the core subjects - like before the turn of the 20th century.

How many of you would like to teach ALL of the CORE subjects? This doesn’t happen in most elementary schools. My daughter has Science and Social Studies with other teachers.

I chaperoned my daughter’s 5th grade field trip on Wednesday. I was with two 30ish teachers. The school has become very diverse in the last two school years. I must have seen at least 10 countries represented, if not more. The young black boys were very hip-hop dressed, I was sitting on the chartered bus with one. Hair braided, saggy pants, listening to his CD’s, very well mannered, all A student and extremely well spoken. Across the aisles was three more, fitting the exact same description. I was so very proud, because according to most of you, I should have been afraid for my life.

The entire class got into trouble twice: (1.) Sliding on the sidewalks down a hill (2.) wanting to purchase additional deserts, because we were on a time schedule. This was the entire class, not just a select group. They were in it together.

My point: I know both teachers and I see their work daily. They are very HIP, when it comes to things outside of school. They know how to get on their LEVEL.

I know some will wonder “Why should they have to GET on their LEVEL” - it’s because they are kids and they love them. I was a witness to what GOOD teachers can do. This week is Teachers Appreciation and according to my daughter, the LOVE of both teachers was shown.

By BigSquatch

May 12, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this

Dear A Father,

Dang Daddy D’z, I guess they neutered yo’ nutz a little too late. Probly got them stuck’up in a picklin jar. This one Bubba-Frank and this one Cody-Ray.. Say hello to everybody. “hellow eberybody!”

Didn’t that Great White kill 100 people and then sell mo’ records than they did in the past 5yrs. And when Ray Charles died, he sold mo’ records, was back in the top 10, and all that crapz- Shiz is called the morbid facsination or sumpin…

Who can even name all the rednecks that in the clink from tryin’ pickup underage girls, or whose car done run off road into schoolhouse tryin’ be Kyle Gordon or some other Nascar fool. Shiz ain’t they always fightin’ them racers? Knockin blows after race, runnin’ each other dirrty on the track? Beside inbreedin’, what that endorsin’? Family valus?

By John

May 12, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

BigSquatch - you hit the nail on the head….all those rappers have all that “bling” and those houses, but the people who buy the CDs are still living in the projects, shooting each other up with drugs and guns, doing drive bys, unable to read and write, and taking their welfare checks to the car dealership to buy spinners for the Escalade so they can live in poverty….yo my man that be what I is rappin’ about bro.

By SNY

May 12, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

Amber,

I’ll bet you that the kids remember today because they had a break from the regular. If you look at their work, they probably were more focused and after your show, I’m sure they were ready to work hard for you. Do you know why? Because now they see you as a real person. Not just someone who busts their butts about tests and homework. Today, Amber, you became someone they can truly trust.

YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Amazed, OK, I am curious, which teachers that blog here weekly have shown their lack of innovation or acceptance of cultures? What questions would you put in a survey for teachers, parents and students? And what methods do you espouse that teachers embrace to innovate and keep up in these “modern” times? I would argue that there is a lot of innovation, creativity and good teaching going on in the classes where the teachers have students who are ready willing and able to learn, who show and work, and show respect for their teachers and their fellow students. I think the biggest problems in education are with the kids who have slacker parents, who have no manners or respect, who say and do what they want when they want, and no surprise these are the kids who are failing in school. Teachers can innovate all they want, but if the kid doesn’t show up physically or mentally, then it is not the teacher’s fault when he doesn’t learn!

By John

May 12, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

SNY - if that’s the way you feel, then I’ll bet you, at 30 years old are really good friends with your granddaughter, who at twelve is probably already pregnant.

Parents and teachers don’t need to be “real” they need to be authority figures!

By Amber

May 12, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

We can’t villianize hip hop or rap music. Much of it has unsavory lyrics. But not all of it. BigSquatch has a point; country music isn’t as pure as the driven snow, either. Honky Tonk Ba Donk A Donk, anyone? (I did use that to teach stressed and unstressed syllables, but anyway) If I think it’ll help, and won’t promote the wrong attitudes, I’ll use it, country or hip hop or polka. It just seems that my black students ONLY listen to gangsta rap, hip hop, or what they consider “my music.” I’d like them to step outside the box a little bit. When I put on country music (we all need a little Dolly Parton in our day) they act like I’ve cut their arms off. These same students are the first to claim racism or “you hatin’” when my white students don’t want to listen to rap music. I think hip hop, rap, country music and culture could be used in the classroom, as long as it’s done in the right way. My problem is when the education theorists think that asking students to sit quietly and read is not “best practice.” The reading skills are just atrocious. And there’s nothing for it but to read if you want to improve your reading skills. I get so discouraged when my students come up to me, complaining that they don’t understand, when really they simply don’t want to read. The tell-tale questions are this, “Is the answer in this paragraph?Which chapter is it in?” I have progressed. Last year, I would ask, “Have you read Chapter 8?” “Yes. I didn’t find it.” “O.k., well, what he’s saying is that he loves his granny but he understands why his grandpa remarried.” “That’s the answer to #5?” “Yes.” This year: “Have you read Chapter 8?” “Yes.” “O.k., summarize what you read for me.” “Uh…..” A lot of the students treat a novel like a seek-and-find. What do you mean you can’t “find” the answer??? O.k…I went off on another topic…sorry… I guess to bring it back…it can’t be all music and motion…at some point, you have to sit, open a book, and move your eyeballs left to right.

By SNY

May 12, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

SNY, I didn’t become that teacher today…I’ve been that teacher since August 3rd. My students love me because I can do a mean electric slide, and they respect me because I won’t let them bust out with Jay-Z lyrics in the middle of class. As for “You go girl,” I saw this t-shirt on a student today: “You go girl, but your boyfriend can stay.” I have mixed feelings. Deliciously sassy, but is it too sexual for a teenager?

By dan

May 12, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

John, you are my new hero.

By SNY

May 12, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

John,

Watch what you say about my child! I don’t have to worry about my child behaving in ways that are that inappropriate. I let her have fun and learn her way. She knows that sex before marriage is a sin. She is also 8 so I’m sure that I’ll have to keep telling her this for many years to come. However, my husband and I do things with our children. We are involved parents and I am only 32 now. No way I’m going to be a grandma anytime soon. You see, my mother raised me this same way. Letting me have fun and learn in my own way. She let me use music and whatever else I needed. Now I’m grown, I own my house, I live in a good neighborhood, my children attend private school, I’m married to both of my children’s father, I obey the law, I have a college education (BS in Accounting), I have a great job that I love and I don’t drink, smoke, or do drugs. You guys are all right, I guess this is a terrible way for kids to learn. It sure didn’t work for me did it?!

Open your minds people. Everything different is not always bad. Different things work for different people. As a young child, sitting and listening to my teacher killed me. I had to try other methods to learn, back then the teachers worked with me all the time preparing and informing me that as I got older I would have to learn to sit still and learn in a traditional setting. By the time I got into middle school, I was fine. I found my groove and I got through school. I even went on to college. I have always learned different from my peers but by having caring, understanding teachers I worked through it. Did they pamper me a little, probably yes they did. Did their hard work and understanding pay off, yes it did. Now, as a teacher wouldn’t this be the best result of all of your hard work. You may not ever find out how well many of your students are doing after school but isn’t worth a try to at least try different things and hope for the best. I know that this won’t work for all kids, but try it. It may help 1. Wouldn’t that be satisifaction enough?!

By Robert

May 12, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

My job is to inform. I relay information. My classroom is the culture that I create.

The students job is to learn. The student must learn to adapt to the culture in the classroom. A teacher cannot change the classroom culture to suit all students, so it must be the other way around.

If students do not learn this skill of learning to the teachers method, then they will be in big trouble in college. What professor is going to rap math to them? Get real!

By EW

May 12, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

DeKlb Resident,

Are you really serious, you have judged this man on a one time non meeting based on his music? This is very interesting, it appears that even if the music was inappropriate for the environment, now you have totally discounted this man and this woman who you say is an executive. I’m assuming here (probably setting myself up for a backlash) this woman didn’t just walk in saying I want to be an executive, she probably went to school, and has knowledge of her job; however YOU don’t take her seriously now because of the music. I’m not condoning the music if it was vulgar; however I’m not condoning your judgmental elitist attitude either. Wow, I’m glad to know that your Mary Poppins, perfect in every way.

Lets talk about LudaChris, who has appeared on Oprah by the way as cast member of CRASH; his only complaint is that Oprah should hold all people to the standard in which she puts on rappers. He specifically named Chris Rock, and Bernie Mack who use extreme profanity in their comedy routines. That was his point, he didn’t excuse any of his behavior – know what you speak.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

May 12, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

KAREN - If you want to believe that INNOVATION is alive and well in this state. Feel free… I have a right to my opinion.

I know what is and what is not being covered in my school system and I get to see fist hand the teaching methods. I have walked in more than one school and one school system. I see the differences in schools that are heavily minority. I see the difference in the attitudes of teachers. I see the kids at church and I compare what those kids are learning in school, compared to what my child has learned. I compare it with my relative kids, of the same grade levels.

I have a few teachers in my family and they talk about the differences at NON-Minority schools versus the Majority-Minority schools. I also have a couple of administrators, as well.

People such as yourself are quick to point out, that they have slacker parents or uncaring parents. You are on the outside of that persons life, looking through a window. You close your eyes to the lack of respect, “your” kids show to other people. You make up “excuses” when they make mistakes or have uncaring attitudes. You actually believe that “their role models” are of the best standards.

I bet Linda Schrenko was looked at, as a GREAT role model. She was elected twice in this state. Even the people with the best PARENTS, ROLE MODELS and INCOME LEVEL - make bad choices and have uncaring attitudes.

How about those great ENRON Executives? I bet they had GREAT Parents and ROLE MODELS. I bet they didn’t listen to RAP Music or follow the Hip-Hop Culture.

My daughters a “GIFTED” student, for whatever, that means in this state. I have accepted it as the only way to get somewhere close to my standards for education in this state. I look at those assignments and laugh, because they are teacher only the things - I teach at home.

INNOVATION to me, is someone who has the ability to capture a childs attention. No matter what the childs “ATTENTION/LACK OF ATTENTION SPAN”.

By Jeff

May 12, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

AMEN Robert!!

By EW

May 12, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

John,

Please come to my school, I have plenty of white girls that are pregnant and have dropped out, you are a joke…

By Jeff

May 12, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

OFF TOPIC: BTW: Just found out that I have officially been voted in to the new system I’ve been anticipating for about a month now. YEA!!!!!

Anybody ever heard of Pangaea Online Learning? Patti, Can we talk about electronic classrooms sometime? New system has me set up with one. WAAYYYY expensive and UBER cool. Can’t wait for the move!! :)

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

Robert, You are a true professional teacher!

SNY, You hit the nail on the head with the parenting comment, because good parenting produces good students, and slack parenting produces less successful students. The vast majority of teachers will work creatively to help any student who wants to learn. The key is the student showing up to class, ready to learn, and with respect for the teacher and others. And teachers certainly don’t need a popular culture hook like hip hop to make the kids “trust” them.

By EW

May 12, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Jeff that sounds great, I’m going to look that up!

By SNY

May 12, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

Amber,

If my child was staying in public school, I would seek you out and put her in your class in a minute. You sound like a teacher that wants to reach her students. Good for you and for the parents who don’t say it enough, THANK YOU. My child has been in Gwinnett County all year and hates it with a passion. I have to force her to go to school somedays. Private school we are coming back.

You are right about the T-shirt. I’ve seen it on an adult, but not a teenager. Makes you wonder what some parents are thinking. I don’t even let my daughter wear the pants with words on her butt. It just gives some pervert a reason to look and possibly speak. I’m not the parent. I’ll hurt someone. Teenagers are getting sassy but isn’t that what they said about us at this age. Think about it, this isn’t a new issue. The music is different and new but every generation brings something new to the schools for them to figure out. Our children have this issue.

By Cosmo

May 12, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

SNY,

You should be proud of your hard work and accomplishments and you sound like a caring and involved parent. Props to you. But I have to disagree with you. When at home, a child should have more freedom than in a classroom environment. It is hard enough for a teacher to keep control of 25-30 students under the best of circumstances. Imagine the chaos if all of the kids were allowed to do whatever they wanted because it would make learning more fun for them. A classroom envoronment has to be structured.

School is a stepping stone to enable and prepare kids to enter society as functioning members. Unfortunately a lot of parents today are more concerned with “image” rather than what is good for their kids and put the blame on teachers, daycare providers or anyone else other than themselves or their children when they act out. Their little angles would never do anything wrong.

By Jeff

May 12, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

InnovationMain Entry: in·no·va·tion Pronunciation: “i-n&-‘vA-sh&n Function: noun 1 : the introduction of something new 2 : a new idea, method, or device (Webster’s Online Dictionary)

Apparently Ms. Amazed believes that the FOLLOWING, and not the PREVIOUS is the definition:

Main Entry: en·ter·tain·ment Pronunciation: “en-t&r-‘tAn-m&nt Function: noun 1 : the act of entertaining 2 a archaic : MAINTENANCE, PROVISION b obsolete : EMPLOYMENT 3 : something diverting or engaging: as a : a public performance b : a usually light comic or adventure novel

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

Amazed, Why did you go on the defense from my comments? I was just asking, and again I will ask you, What questions would you put on a survey of students, parents and teachers to in order to bring the innovation you want? And don’t read any racial bias into my comments, because I am not judging you or your kids or school and I don’t care if the kids are black, brown, white, yellow or red, my point is that students that have good parents will do better in school and those with uneducated, uninterested, or slacker parents won’t have as good a chance at succeeding in school. So calm down, because I am just wondering and asking what specific innovations should be impelmented in schools that are failing?

By V for Vendetta

May 12, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

I agree with Karen and Robert-

It is too easy to get off of the subject in regards to this topic, but the bottom line is that whatever is done in the classroom, should be done to help kids build a foundation for the rest of their lives. I am a HUGE believe that kids need to come to school with the attitude that a good education is a necessity to making your way in the world. Unfortunately, that attitude starts in the home, and too many of these kids come from homes where education is WAY down on the list of what’s important (assuming it’s on “the list” at all).

We cant stereotype ALL rap music, hip-hop music, whatever you want to call it, but we CAN say that it really does not have anything to do with preparing kids for college. It’s sad to see, but I think what is considered “college prep” at my high school would have been considered “below technical” about a decade or two ago.

Why are we constantly catering to the people who don’t care? Why am I bending over backwards to make someone behave, or pay attention, or wake up, who obviously does not want to be here? Most of these kids in “college prep” will never go to college, and if they do, they will fail out within a semester. They will be shocked and amazed that a college professor refuses to cater to their “individual needs” (Hard to do in a class of 300). They wont understand why the professor refuses to play popular music to catch their interest.

High school should be a time when you figure out that the babying is over, and things are getting serious. Instead, we are making it even easier on them. But no matter what grade level you teach, there are better ways to get kids interested than playing ANY type of music with words. Try introducing them to some of the classics, or some great movie soundtracks (the scores, not the compilations). If they complain, well too bad, because YOU shouldn’t be bending over backwards for THEM. Just because mommy and daddy give them whatever they want, doesn’t mean we have to.

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this

V, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! We have many facets to our lives, and one facet involves school and learning. Those that come to learn, and really work at it, will achieve. The others who want to be entertained in school will find it hard to make a living and pay their own way.

By The Sub.

May 12, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Not all rap, which is now equated to hip hop which is attached to black culture is bad, just the most popular versions. We have a great many rappers and singers with a conscience, but the airplay is not the same for those who encourage stupidity. I travel from school to school daily and the things that I hear from students make me sad on a daily basis. Whites buy more rap than blacks, but most whites have an involved mother and father who at least teaches them the value of education, who thought enough of their child to name them and not brand them. Dontavious, Marquavious, Khalil, or some other brand name comes into the classroom he tells the girls to “get on these”, calls them and everybody else every name in the book, “I’m a toilet stool, sit on me”, “F… school, I’m just here to meet girls”, “i’m a g”, and using the N word repeatedly amd all manner of other things and that’s just getting to the desk. When Ben, Michael, John, Josh and the other names that get jobs come into the room they have a seat. They listen to the same music but the way it affects them is totally different. One set knows that it is completely false to believe you can live a lawless lifestyle with no consequences. The other set takes the lyrics as a look back at their history and prediction of their future. The artists are modern day plantation bosses. They are leading the people but based on the directive of the master (corp America who seeks reasons shut minorities out of the game). Unfortunately parents are still not over the fact they are now grownups and they have a reponsibility to raise their children. They do not realize that their children are being set up to lose all that was gained through civil rights. Please know that 50% of the children that enter the 9th grade do not graduate. So how many children will capable of competing on a global stage when they can’t complete high school. Hip Hop in it’s current form, and parents need to take more responsibility for their creative input into children. The only way a black man can call a woman a “b” or and other derogatory name is if he does not respect his mom, grandmom, sister, (himself). Hip Hop in it’s current form already permeates the classroom and the teacher is the last line of defence that keeps anarchy from completely taking hold in our children. Get your child out of all black schools because segregation is coming back slowly but surely. If you want the children to have a chance you must reintegrate schools, the balance has greatly tipped, we now have too many all black schools in Dekalb. Hip Hop in it’s current form would not have such a stronghold with children if they were daily exposed to other forms of music and culture. Then the good kids would not feel so alone. Maybe then troubled kids could be drawn out of the boxes they have allowed themselves to be put into. Sorry for the long post

By hs sped

May 12, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

V, you are SO on it! Most kids are more concerned with their rights then their responsibilities. When did this happen? Are we dealing with aged yuppies?

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

The Sub, Well said and so true. And not too long of a post, let’s hear more from you.

By SNY

May 12, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

Cosmo,

Your comments about how many kids are in a single classroom is one of the reasons my husband and I are putting my daughter back in private school. The class size is about the same (18-23). But they have more control over the students than public school has. My daughter has been called the N-word, a black b*tch, a fat-ss and so many other things at this school. She has been hit and picked on all because she doesn’t fight or talk back. She turns the other cheek. Well she did until recently. The last time some little boy hit her I told her to knock him out. (Another topic). But my point is where is the teacher during all of this. Or if it is happening in the morning, where are the adults. I hate that I still have to pay the county their tax money. My kids don’t attend their schools, I should use my money to pay for better schools.

By hs sped

May 12, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

Sub, That’s quite an eye opener. Black parents should get their kids out of all black schools? I have a mixed grandchild and I need to know these things. I don’t want to push my culture (?) on her, but I also do not want her to be short-changed. She will be starting school next fall.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

May 12, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

Jeff - most of you are so afraid to be innovative, I’m suprise you could find a definition.

Karen: For Failing Schools -

I have more, but I have something to finish today. Remind me next week and I will add more. I know the first complaints will be, your strict teaching schedule and materials to cover. Or lack of control. But, why cover it, if the children are going to fail.

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

Amazed, Good ideas, have you presented them to your principal or school board? PTA’s are also good at organizing resources for parents. My kids had a homework hotline they could call for some classes. Mentors in place of absent or uninvolvled parents is a great idea, too. What do you think of my idea of reading and math “boot camp classes” where poor performers go to get their skills up to speed so that they can then perform on grade level?

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

Amazed, And might I add that I think your list of innovations qualify more as teacher & parent support than classroom teaching “methods.” Since good parenting and mentoring are part of the formula for successful students, your methods should contribute to better learning.

By Leia

May 12, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

If public schools are having a hard enough time finding quality teachers for Monday through Friday, who exactly is supposed to work on Saturdays for these mandatory classes? And, where would the funding come from? There wouldn’t be enough money for me to give up my Saturday with my own family to come in and do that!

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

Leia, PTA could raise money to fund Saturday school, and local businesses could help sponsor the effort, too. What do you think of my boot camp idea for poor readers and those lagging in math? It would be taught by reading specialists and good math teachers and in school during regular hours. I am not a teacher, just tutored reading and math.

By Karen Armsby

May 12, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

Happy Mother’s Day to all of you moms and to all teachers who may not have your own children but care for your students like a good mom does!

By Teacher Teacher

May 12, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this

If contemporary music will affect a teacher’s efforts in the classroom, then go for it! Do people forget the wonderful Romeo + Juliet by Baz Luhrman in which the Bard’s tragedy is transformed into one about rival gangs? Also, what about The Wiz? Jacko never looked better!

By wwww

May 12, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this

Amazed made an interesting comment: educators are afraid to be innovative. You seem to have many things you feel will improve schools - and I add that many of them are very good ideas on paper. What you fail to realize, as you are not a teacher, is that sometimes students have to do something - GASP - even if they don’t like it. Why? Because in a classroom of 30 individuals, it is an impossibility to tailor instruction 30 different ways every day. Your idea of Saturday classes is great - for elementary school age children. I actually know several teachers who would do this simply because they love what they do - and aren’t married, have no children, little extended family, and live in a studio apartment with no pets.

I hand it to you - you obviously spend a great deal of time thinking of ways to improve eduaction. What is unfortunate is many of them will never work - too little funding, lack of parental support, and perhaps most importantly, lack of student interest. Novel ideas, like adding rap to instruction, work at first, but in the long run, the newness wears off and kids need a new “hook”. I love my job as an EDUCATOR, not an ENTERTAINER.

So, it is not always about innovation as it is about hard work - from the students. We are focusing an enormous amount of energy and effort on teachers, when we need to be expecting - make that demanding - students live up to the potential they all possess.

When we stop making excuses for students (they can’t learn without innovative methods that are changed as soon as they get old) and do what we need to - respect them, nuture them, expect great things from them, we will all reap the results.

By Amber

May 12, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

note: mistake;I posted under the wrong name I accidently posted under SNY’s name, but I was trying to respond to SNY…OOPS!!! Here is what I said:SNY, I didn’t become that teacher today…I’ve been that teacher since August 3rd. My students love me because I can do a mean electric slide, and they respect me because I won’t let them bust out with Jay-Z lyrics in the middle of class. As for “You go girl,” I saw this t-shirt on a student today: “You go girl, but your boyfriend can stay.” I have mixed feelings. Deliciously sassy, but is it too sexual for a teenager?

By Jeff

May 15, 2006 08:10 AM | Link to this

Amazed,

Remember the old Franklin saying “Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it”?

Granted, due to the situation I am in in my current school my ideas have been stifled. But you are talking to a master innovator. The situation that I’m going into next year in South GA actually encourages this, and within a few years you’ll be hearing my name on the news as being on the cutting edge of electronic classroom research.

As has been pointed out, you are great at creating ideas for PARENTS to use. And for that, I congratulate you. But please, leave the classroom techniques to the professionals.

By John Regan

May 15, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this

Finally, a teacher who understands why she is in the classroom, and it is NOT to molly-coddle the students. If they choose not to act properly and do the required work, flunk them. Two things need to go as soon as possible. Georg Bush’s “No child left behind” and George Bush himself. Bush is running neck and neck with Jimma Carter and Lyndon Johnson as the worst President this country has ever had.

By ashlynn

May 15, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

I am a teacher and a graduate student at Georgia State University. Your statement was interesting because I presently taking a course that id dedicated to culture and teaching within specfic culture. You are perpetuating what is describe as “cultural discontinunity.” Let me clarify some of the confusion:

By ashlynn

May 15, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

I apologize my email got cut off. You have some misconceptions: 1. Hip Hop is a cullture not a music. 2. The music is rap, which a genere. 3. Ebonics’ purpose is to educate teachers on African- American vernacular. Which is probably why you and others have snubbed hip hop as a teaching tool. You do value the culture or the language. You do not see these children or my entire ethnic group has human. What is the difference in punk rock? It is not about teaching hip hop but using it as a create tool to enhance. You are doing what we scold our students for doing, not being open minded and giving their best effort. But the true is your attitude is “no” better than the slave owner or the KKK member, at least we know they are racist. Your just posing while misinterpreting aspect of our culture you don’t understand. Because the killing that the rapper speaks of is the same as government invading a country and killing its leader because they dis agree on forms of goverment. The degrading of women happens daily in the best of society. The drug us mention in many rap songs took place in the White House. So of government has true aspects of gangsta. Rappers speak of what they see in society. So if you want rappers to clean up their lyrics urge society to clean itself up. Be remind all rap is not negative. So you speak of society changes. Because the African in American has always uncover America’s shame.

By justice

May 16, 2006 08:10 AM | Link to this

You’re ignorant. I’m so glad all teachers don’t think like you!!!!!!! I think bringing hip-hop into the classroom is a wonderful thing to say the least. I do it everyday. And please let me correct you…hip-hop is a culture. So when you speak about ‘your culture’ hip-hop is what it is…and it’s not just a black thing…hip-hop includes all races and ethnicities.

By Laf

May 16, 2006 08:43 AM | Link to this

the h* out of their lower class students. These teachers need to learn how to utilize the interest of these students as a tool to make school relevant for them. If they were innovative and creative they could use the positive hip hop or rap to reach a lot of educational objectives. Many creative artist are using rap every day to deliver postive messages to their teenage fans. It shouldn’t be used everyday in the classroom but it could be used from time to time to spice up the classroom. To make the classroom and interesting place to be. Oh goodness, we can’t do this! We would be playing into the hands of a worthless minority group. Quality education is real dullsville. It’s got to be real difficult, strict, and intolerable. If they can’t cope with it they can always drop out. They can stay at home with their worthless parents. I want these kids to be like me. They should have my values. My kids don’t listen to this #%&*@&x music. Burn rap. Run the hip hop crowd out of town. Put the classical music back own. Classical music!! NO! No! No! Where is Elvis? Lets be kool and play a little James Brown!!
People you need to listen to Ashlynn and Justice. It seems they may be in touch with the real world.

By KABA

May 16, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this

Ashlyn, I found your comments unschooled, ungrammatical, derisive, divisive and bigoted. If you really are a teacher, and a grad student at GSU, then I am embarrassed for you. Your rhetoric is the reason we need to keep hip hop culture out of public schools. Your comments raised the hair on the back of my neck. In a word, you are scary.

By V for Vendetta

May 16, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Good lord Ashlynn, you are insane.

By luvs2teach

May 16, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this

Well…interesting topic, and it took me awhile to decide whether or not to post. Some of the teachers’ comments were valid and indicative of educators who take their jobs and subject matter seriously (not indicative of a lack of innovation, IMHO).

Some of the parents’ comments expressing the desire for teachers to “make learning fun” for their kids are understandable, but misguided. Too many kids think learning should be entertaining, and don’t know how to apply themselves to real work. I don’t think learning should be drudgery (no drill and kill here), but too many kids want to sit back and become passive receptors of knowledge, just as they are passive receptors of entertainment. Real learning doesn’t happen that way.

Other comments seem to place a dislike of hip-hop as a race thing - given the large number of white kids buying the music, I’m willing to bet it’s a youth thing, more than a race thing.

Remember “sex, drugs, and rock and roll” as a rallying cry of a youth subculture in the 60s and 70s? As a poster earlier posed the question - can you imagine if we asked our teachers to use Zeppelin? Can you imagine our parents supporting that?

Some of the more youthful posters mentioned that teachers need to “get real” and “relate.” No, we don’t. Teachers shouldn’t have to get real with their students - that IMHO, is a violation of the boundaries that should exist between teacher and student - otherwise you get Mary Kay Latourneau. Teachers (and they are often young and new) who do get “real” are often well-liked, but have many discipline problems. They have problems when they have to take back the teacher role and become authority figures again. The kids themselves will tell you, “She’s all right, but she’s too nice.”

Ashlynn, I’m a 40 year old white woman, and I love my kids - all of them, no matter what color they are. I do see them as human, and I see them with potential. But unfortunately in this country, black kids who speak ebonics don’t do well in the business world - nor do white kids who say “ain’t” and “fixing to be” nor hispanic kids who have difficulty with English. There IS a language of business and of the world of work - it is called Standard English. It is a ticket to success. You can look at it as being bilingual, if you like (although linguistics look at Ebonics as a dialect, like Chicano English, and not a separate language). I don’t know your life experiences, but may I suggest a trip to Europe, Asia, or South America - the hip-hop culture is a small subset of American culture, and the world is a much bigger place than that.

As to the question - it depends, I guess. I do use rap as an option when I give them creative projects (write a poem, song or rap about…). I have little songs and jingles that I use to help kids remember, and it has been known to occasionally get a beat going in my class (always spontaneous - the one or two occasions I’ve tried to make it happen have not gone well…).

I rarely play current popular music in class - I avoid not only hip-hop, but also my preferred rock (lots of curse words, lots of sex, too - Nine Inch Nail’s “Closer” anyone?) and I’m not a huge country fan, nor are most of my kids. I do play jazz (which I prefer to classical), oldies (the sound track to “The Big Chill” is a huge hit) and (this may surprise you, but remember I teach 8th grade) - Disney Soundtrack albums! We all sing along to the Lion King or to Mulan - it’s fun AND family friendly, and Un-PC genre-free.

Peace out, y’all!