Get Schooled

By Karen Armsby

May 2, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this

I read the article and looked at the ranking list. and yes, I think the more AP classes, the better the school. However, my advice is not to move, just start requesting more AP classes for your own high schools.

Most good high schools have been adding more AP classes each year and I think that is the way to go for the higher performing students, regardless if they have been labelled gifted, honors etc. The AP classes have increased reading requirements, subject content is more complex, and these courses are an excellent preview to the demands of college work.

The end of course national AP exams that are given in May each year reveal which courses have been taught well and which do not adequately prepare the students for the exam. A teacher who does not do a good job teaching the class will have a class of low scoring performers on the exam. The school admins only need to exam the scores of the teachers’ pupils to see if they have done a good job or not.

AP classes and good scores on the AP exams also enable students to exempt classes for credit in college. Each college has their own cut score for the tests. For example, Georgia Tech generally requires high scores than UGA in order to get college credit.

By Ernest

May 2, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

I agree with your point Karen, of stakeholders working within their attendance zones and advocating for AP and other rigorous course offerings. I would balance that with offering more career technology classes, based on the needs of that attendance zone.

I give props to DeKalb County in offering more AP courses to schools that traditionally have not done so. I believe they may need to be creative in some cases regarding the method of delivery, especially if class sizes don’t justify the need for allocating a staffer dedicated to a particular AP subject. One idea is a combination of a ‘shared’ resource combined with using distance learning technolgy. I believe its time to give consideration to this, especially as we are building the supply of AP capable teachers.

At the same time, DeKalb is rolling out Career Technology classrooms in several of it’s high schools. Combined with the existing Schools of Technology, students have multiple options. The key to this succeeding is creating greater awareness in the community of the offerings/services available.

By SET

May 2, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

Information is power. I notice that real estate agent websites here have a link that sends you to the school demographic and performance report sites. So (renters or buyers) one can avoid “accidently” moving into a bad neighborhood…

By Karen Armsby

May 2, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

Ernest, Thanks, and I agree with you on the Career Technology classes. The schools need to serve all segments of the student population. One class track does not fit all students.

Distance learning is an option, but i still think real teacher to student interaction is the best educational setting. If there are not enough students to fill more than one AP class, AP teachers teach more than one AP subject area also. But that can backfire. My kids had an AP economics teacher who did a poor job teaching them and my kids scored poorly on the AP exam, despite getting an A in his class. They did well on other AP exams when the classes were taught up to AP standards.

Finally, the more involved the parents are, the more responsive the schools will be whether to adding AP classes or career technology classes.

By Zoe

May 2, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this

I think this measurement is a great tool. Of course I am biased, the school I graduated from is in the top 10. As a current AP teacher, I agree that parents should demand more AP classes rather than moving. Teachers with AP classes tend to stick around- even in high needs schools. However, parents should not put a child in an AP class just because it would look better on a transcript. AP classes are very demanding academically and students should know that going in. It is up to students to rise to the challenge, it is not up to teachers to lower standards to make administrators and parents happy. Now that the the ranking formula is made public, expect principals to try and jam pack classes to raise the ranking of their schools. Thank goodness for the AP audit, it will ensure that we, as teachers, can teach AP classes the way they were meant to be taught- as rigorous, introductory college level classes.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

May 2, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this

I was excited when I saw the article and immediately looked to see what schools in my community made the list. None made the top 100 category, but several of Gwinnett’s school made the list. I was pleased, because I live within the community of several.

However, when I saw the criteria - I was shocked that the qualifications to be on the list were based only on AP classes and students graduating. My excitement died, because I was disappointed that the criteria to be on the list was so derisory. I think it needs to be more competitive to make such a list, with rigid criteria.

Many of the schools on the list would not have made it. It did reflect a few Great points for schools who were on the list.

I wouldn’t sell my home to be in the community of any of the schools that made the TOP 100 category. I didn’t see enough EXCELLENCE in the criteria used to generate the list.

By Dracy R. Blackwell

May 2, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

I think school rankings are good; however, what happens when a parent places their child in one of these schools because of the rankings, only later to find that there is a great amount of racial prejudice in the school? That is exactly what happened to my family. We moved into a school district, based on the rankings, only to find that our son has to endure racial prejudice on a daily basis. This prejudice not only comes from the white students, but the teachers as well. My son has performed poorly since being placed in a school that has good rankings, and when asked about school, he has responded with comments such as, “this has been my worst school year ever,” “I hate my school,” and “I don’t feel like the teachers are interested in whether I learn or not, and I am not comfortable approaching them.”

I personally feel that the school my son attends has failed him, based solely on the color of his skin, so in the future instead of going solely on rankings, I will take the time to visit the school and/or neighborhood to find out what goes on that the rankings do not show.

By G

May 2, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

AP courses are only taken by a small minority of the students at most schools. What about the majority? How well are they being served. A school that caters to a small group and leaves the rest with less is a sorry school, no matter what their AP test rankings.

The college-prep mentality shortchanges students who are not college bound, and these people are the ones who are the backbone and muscle of the economy. Vocational education should get a lot more emphasis and money than it does, but it’s just not as “sexy” as AP, International Baccalaureate, and gifted.

If you want productive members of society coming out of schools, make sure that students who aren’t in the CP track have an equal opportunity to learn skills that they can market. They don’t need to be treated like second-class citizens by school boards and government.

By Robert

May 2, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

One major danger in all of this that we need to become aware of…..

Administrators realize that their school will be ranked on how many students take AP classes. The result is the “forcing” of general level students into AP classes to inflate these numbers.

It is unfair to these general level students because they become quickly lost and frustrated. Or, it is unfair to the real AP students because the teacher must slow down for the general level students. Either way it is a no-win situation for the class and the students. The only “winners” is the administration whose school suddenly looks “better.”

It is also unfair for the AP teacher who is frequently judged on the class AP scores at the end of the year.

I know for a fact that this situation is occurring in at least one of our metro school systems. Parents need to be involved with the class selection.

By Leia

May 2, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

Robert - you are absolutely right. I have several students taking an A.P. exam right now, whom I tried to talk out of it! They were solid B college prep students who had no business in an A.P. course and were soon swallowed up by the workload and the expectations.

By V (no vendetta!)

May 2, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

Dracy,

I’m getting about sick and tired of the race card being played in every time something doesn’t go a child’s way whent he teacher is of another race. I don’t know where your son is at, but I honestly doubt it is my school (even though my school is great). HOWEVER, i do know I just got out of a parent meeting with a student of another race, and this parent would NOT listen to reason - even when it was coming from an administrator of the student’s race. Parent was standing up and shouting at the two of us, and it was downright embarrassing - for the parent. (At least I would have been embarrassed!)

I’m not saying that race problems don’t still exist. What I AM saying is that they don’t exist anymore at the level that the Cynthia McKinney and John Lewis’s of the world would like the black community to believe. What McKinney promotes is simply a victimization attitude, one that the black race would do weel to ignore. For only then can race relations in this country ever get better. I can speak for myself and many other white ppl I know when I say that I have absolutely no problem with blacks as a class, and I do my very best to judge someone based on the information that I have on them as a person. (Which, as a teacher means the indvidual student’s performance in my class and discipline history, among other things.) What I do oppose STRONGLY is the victimization attitude, and oppose it just as strongly is WHATEVER race I see it in.

By teach overseas

May 2, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

Dracy-

With all due respect- is it possible that your son is doing poorly at his new school because the expectations are higher and he has not risen to meet them? It may be that he is trying very hard, but the other kids are far ahead of him because they have been in this good system for much longer.

Frankly- it doesn’t really matter (especially at the high school level) if the teachers care about what he is learning or not. Of course it would be nice if they were all kissy huggy, reagardless, your son needs to push the envelope and take advantage of his new school environment. He may not feel comfortable approaching his teachers- but he still has to do it. Is it that now most of his teachers are white?

Kids new to a school often find their first year to be difficult, but if you plan to have your son succeed in a diverse and competitive world- he has to stop worrying about who is not giving him a break or patting him on the back and get out there and compete with the best of them.

Please note that I don’t think this is easy. I think black males in our society have a lot of distractions, but you are doing good for your son to put him in the best schools possible and push him hard to suceed- no matter what.

By waterbug24

May 2, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

AP classes are great, but another option that many people don’t know about is Post Secondary Option-where high school students attend college full or part time. Let’s compare-take a class and maybe opt out of some classes if you take a test at the end of the year, or go to college and get credit for the classes then. The only issue I had in high school when I did this is that my grades were calculated on the regular 4.0 scale, which seems silly since I had English 101 and 102, compared to some who took college prep English. Why don’t we compare using students who are actually excelling at college, instead of who may just be in the class to up numbers?

By You've gotta be kidding me!

May 2, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Dracy:

How about some specific examples of how this school has “failed him based solely on the color of his skin.”

To accuse not just one person, but an entire organization of overt racism is a VERY SERIOUS statement to make.

By V for Vendetta

May 2, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

I think a lot of the people on here are totally right, we need to request (or better yet, EXPECT) other schools to conform to a policy of excellence rather than jump ship to a “better” district. Schools will thrive if parents and communities are involved and have a say in what type of classes their school offers.

I know that is easy to say, being a product of, and a teacher at, a school that is regularly on the list (although I will admit, I have not looked at the list yet today, hence my ambiguity on the subject).

As for you Dracy, well, I don’t even know where to begin.

By Jeff

May 2, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

I fought for and did just that waterbug. By the time HOPE took over (when I graduated HS), I was literally a junior at a major school here in GA. Stayed at said school and came out with 2 degrees roughly when most are coming out with 1. (Was 22 at graduation)

By Melody

May 2, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

My Child has a strong B, I did not want her to take AP courses, Because i didnt want to overload her. It’s a struggle just to keep a strong B. AP courses is not for everybody including A students. Your child can only do so much. And it can Backfire.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

May 2, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

OFF TOPIC – But I couldn’t hold it.

V for Vendetta, Once you have experienced what Dracy’s son is dealing with daily, then you may criticize. I have lived through what he is experiencing. I was a first grader going into an all white school. It was a very painful experience. I spent the first year of school with very few friends, but the next school year was a much better experience. My sister entered first grade and I had a playmate. I think I shared the story about a 5th grader who was having a party, but couldn’t invite the only two friends she had in the entire school because we were black.

Yes, racism occurs at all levels - but when it happens at school and with adults - for a child that is a painful experience that is hard to heal. In high school, I had an assistant principal who went on record to say, he did not believe that black and whites should date and this was in 1988. There were lots of rumors about a young black man, dating a young white lady. Her parents had no problem with it, but some other white parents had a problem with the message it would send to their children. I have a lot of stories like this one.

The sad thing about my 80’s experience is that my daughter came home last week to tell me that the little boys in her class thought that one of the room parents was prejudice against them because they were black and Hispanic. I didn’t ask why, because I didn’t think it really mattered. You will always meet someone you feel who doesn’t want to associate with you for one reason or another. These kids associate with children of all races on a daily basis, they live on the same street and spend weekends with their friends.

Dracy, your son will find comfort one day and will actually find some really good friends in this school. Just tell him to smile, do his work and everything else will work out as well.

By Ernest

May 2, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

Waterbug brings up an interesting point. For sake of an example, what if many of the students at Walton HS decided to joint enroll at Kennesaw. This could impact their AP population, ranking in a list like this, and could result in the loss of FTE dollars. This is beneficial for the students but the school system may have other thoughts.

Karen, I agree interaction with a teacher is important. A model I was thinking about is where you would have an ‘AP in training teacher/Proctor’ that would be in the school opposite the actual teacher. While teaching at school A (teacher) and beaming the lecture to school B (proctor), hopefully this could ‘enlarge’ the audience without compromising the content and providing that interaction. One would ‘hope’ that this also prepares students for life in college.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

May 2, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

My comments were directed at V(No Vendetta!).

By Jeff

May 2, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

Patti,

If we haven’t discussed Joint Enrollment (and I’m pretty sure we haven’t recently at least), I would love to. Just kinda off topic here. (I know: Hey pot, this is the kettle. YOU’RE BLACK!!!)

By v (no vendetta)

May 2, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

First off, just want to apologize to V for appropriating a name close to yours. It is based on my own real name, and was just going to put V but realized it was ULTRA similar to yours.

Amazed,

I stand by my statements: Most white people really have NOTHING against blacks. We’re simply tired of the victimization attitude y’all - for the most part - have adopted. Personally, I couldnt care less whether you succeed or fail, and I’m not going to actively try to make you fail. Now, as far as my students go, I do genuinely want them to succeed. But I’m going to hold my standards HIGH and tell you to hit them. I am NOT going to set them low so your “self image” won’t suffer. And I don’t have different standards for different races. My class is just as hard for the black man as the white man, the yellow man, the red man, the polka-dotted-up-you-a$$ man and any other person in my class. Stepping over an ant hill is NOTHING. Climbing Brasstown Bald is an accomplishment. My kids are gonna climb the Bald.

By Mary

May 2, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

A ranking based on how many students actually PASS the naional AP exams would be more informative. At my shcool all of the 8th graders were required to take Algebra I , whether they were prepared for it or not. However, only 20% passed the textbook’s end of course test….As far as moving to an area where schools score well on tests, I did it for my kids and have never regretted it…..and Let’s remember that SAT score’s highest correlation is with ZIP CODES !

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

May 2, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

V (NO Vendetta)

You must be New to this blog or under a different User Name.

Make me fail or try to make me fail? You actually believe that you could hold that much power? It’s not 1965 and my family was educated before that time and are very successful before/during/after that time period. If public schools were “CLOSED” today, my children and grandchildren, etc… would still be educated.

Tired of the Victimization attitude??? Please, who cares what you are TIRED of. I don’t think you will find one minority who actually cares what you think of your idea of a victimization attitude. It’s like some of you say about racism, it’t only in your mind. That victimization attitude does not exist, it’s what the one person(YOU) see within your own mind.

Low expectations??? You are obviously new to this blog. I expect more from the educational systems in this ENTIRE Country, than you would ever EXPECT for your entire LIFE. Your idea about education would not meet my standards by a LONG SHOT. I treat everyday as an educational opportunity for my daughter and I.

Lower the expectations for me, GET REAL.

By V for Vendetta

May 2, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

No biggie V, I don’t mind a bit.

On Topic: I do agree with one negative aspect some people have mentioned/alluded to: Ranking schools is a great pat on the back for a lot of people, but in the end, it could lead to larger fluctuations in school population as people abandon their current districts in favor of “ranked” schools. Also, it could contribute to a serious issue we have already discussed ad nauseam; people going to schools that are not in their district.

Oh, and V, I agree with what you said. The victimization attitude has gotta go. I’m sick of it.

By another teacher

May 2, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Robert: Your comment was valid. The same exact thing has happened at the non-AP level with Algebra. Now, all students must take Algebra. So, every students gets put in (no more general math). Result: slow students get frustrated and on-level students have to deal with a dumbed-down curriculum. But, we get to say, “Aren’t we smart? All of our students take Algebra.”

By SET

May 2, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

Race and education, what a topic!

I’m in California and I have plenty of experience going to White schools in the 1960 - as does the whole Bay Area Jack and Jill crowd.

Darcy and the others need to get their child(ren) ready to deal with reality.

If little (insert race) Sammy thinks school is something wait till he/she is drafted into the Army/Navy/Airforce (it’s coming, people!) or has to go to work or start a business.

Me and my friends and family went to newly-integrated public and private schools during the Selma Race Riots. Does anybody think we are impressed with these brats whining about racism? The main thing I see is that somebody won’t give them something. Such as invitations to a party. Boo-hoo. Throw your own damn party and invite people outside you own closed circle (for once). Work it like an Irish politician (who you can learn from)!

Yes I met classmates whose parents didn’t want blacks in their house. My parents really didn’t want white kids in our house. In both cases the parents (grudgingly?) got over it. That’s life. Was it a problem? No. We had plenty of real problems to deal with like keeping the teachers off our backs and getting B’s and A’s.

Darcy needs to tell Jr “racism” is a cop out until it involves unprovoked violence, and to get back to school and deal with it - and to get counseling if he needs help in coping with school.

By decatur

May 2, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

Two comments…

First $7 billion in lottery money to public education and the best Georgia can do is have a high school ranked #107. Sounds like mismanagement and incompetence to me. Just look to the west and see that Birmingham has the #1 school and another ranked 60th, yet I’m sure they don’t have the resources available to the schools in Georgia.

Second As far as racism holding minority students down, I sincerely doubt that black children enrolled in the city schools of Atlanta or Clayton county ever see a white teacher, administrator or fellow student, yet the test scores of those schools are so low it pathetic. It’s hard to play the victim role when there are no victimizers around. Since it seems that black students who try to succeed in school are criticized for “acting white” I think the black community should take a look in the mirror and see that they are their own worse enemy when it comes to education.

By Robert

May 2, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

Racism is alive and well in our society. We all must deal with it, regardless of race…… no matter how sad this makes me, personally.

When a parent researches a school, I would certainly hope that they do not solely look at any individual metrix. A school should be looked at wholistically. It was a mistake to send your black child to an all white school that is racist, regardless of how good it may be academically.

There are many very good schools (some on the top list) that have extremely diverse populations. Grady HS in APS and Druid Hills HS in DeKalb are a couple that come to mind. Why didn’t you consider one of those?

By zoe

May 2, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

Ernest,

Schools earn FTE monies for joint enrollment if the student enrolled is gifted. In fact, the state pays the tuition and the school gets even more FTE counts. Only issue is that a student enrolled in college classes at a college will not get the weighted grade AP does. This is an issue this year with our wannabe valedictorian. The student took classes off campus and is no longer in the running for valedictorian since the AP classes are weighted and the classes she took are not, even though the classes taken at the college are WAY harder.

By SET

May 2, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

No, it is not a mistake to send your black child to a white school that is “racist”.

As long as your black child has what it takes to compete.

It is a bigger mistake to send your bright black child to a ghetto cesspool of a school where the child will be attacked if he or she reveals how smart they really are, and where your bright black child will be under peer pressure to behave as badly as ghetto blacks - and to adopt their mores.

Bright black kids can handle “racist” environments. It’s called “getting A’s in College Prep classes”. Then it’s called “Social Skills”.

“Racism” is a cop out, not a problem.

By BlindHomer

May 2, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

There’s a lot of pressure at my daughter’s school, mostly from parents, to take all the honors and AP classes you can. But you still have to qualify, although I imagine there are cases where pushy parents get the requirements overlooked. I like programs for the best and brightest but the ratio of students to AP classes alone doesn’t make a good school. Think Duke. Off topic, I agree with SET, as usual. I was thrown out of a majority black school and the gifted program I was in there in 7th grade for fighting with a black kid, although the fight had nothing to do with race. I got over it.

By RA

May 2, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

I was pleased to see the rankings were based on the percentage of students who participated in AP classes. So there is a definite incentive to encourage participation from every student who thinks they would like to try.

My oldest child went to a very competitive HS in the north east that took rationing of opportunity very seriously. Their strategy for appearing highly competitve was to lift the top 20% of students in the school to amazing academic levels while everyone 21% and below got a very mediocre education and almost no access to any of the riches available to the top 20%.

The result was that beginning in 2nd grade (when tracking began) parents clawed over each other to get their children every possible competitive advantage.

Everyone knew that one bad ITBS score in elementary school would mean being placed on the middle track of everything and then there would be no AP classes in HS. The stakes were so high. It was a disgrace to even be on the Honors track—only AP would do.

I found the whole atmosphere sickening. I always feared for the kids who scored right at 21%. One question on the ITBS probably was the only difference between them and the next level up.

Having said all this, I would like to add that my son entered that HS in 9th grade. We moved from a very average school in California. He had been 1st in his class forever in CA. We thought he would be fine. He sunk right to the bottom of the first 20% within weeks.

By the middle of 9th grade we were all in a panic. He, because he had never experienced such competition. His father and I because we were scared for him academically and personally. He was very demoralized and depressed. His identity was The Smart Kid. Suddenly, he was just average. No longer the teacher’s pet, he was barely noticed. We found the school to be unsympathetic. They had seen this many times before.

In the end, he pulled himself up by the bootstraps and went on to be a stellar student. He says now that he is glad to have had that experience in the 9th grade instead of his freshman year of college.

Perhaps Mr Dracy’s son is having a similar experience. I imagine its common when moving from poor schools to high performing ones.

By RA

May 2, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Mr Dracy: I wanted to add one thing to that very long post. I believe my son pulled himself up and went on to even greater academic success than before, because we gave him no sympathy. We wanted to.

We were so sad for him. But we knew what he needed to hear from us was that he was capable of excellence and we expected it. So the circumstances had changed—our expectations were the same. We got him some tutors (on study skills, which he lacked) and we stayed on top of him till he got himself back on track.

In the end it was a great life lesson for him. He’s a better student today because of it. And I think eventually, your son will be too. (Though, I know its hard to believe that now when you are hurting for your son.)

By a high school mom

May 2, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this

Information is power to a certain extent. It’s the way the information is used that causes all sorts of havoc. I see many, many schools from Long Island on this list, as well as other suburban schools surrounding NYC.

Regarding LI schools, one key thing to note is that school districts up there are not run by counties, each town has their own school system, each with its own school board, etc. Most towns have one high school, some have two. School systems are much smaller, education taxes much higher. Some of these schools are located in affluent areas, others are more working to middle class areas.

And, the real estate prices are up north are ridiculously high. It makes me think that these smaller public school systems drive the real estate market more than anything, other than living waterside.

The public high school in my hometown, as well my son’s current high school, is on the list, both midway through. I’m impressed with both. My son, a rising 10th grader, will be taking AP World History next year. Honestly, when we bought our house 15 years ago, this high school did not exist. We lucked out…and, yes, we would have moved to a better school district if we had not ended up where we did.

By Robert

May 2, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

Racism really does exist - excuse or not. As a white male in the city of Atlanta, I do experience it from some blacks downtown. I can only imagine what some blacks experience in the reverse.

Yes, we must deal with it. That is not the issue at hand.

The issue at hand is selecting the best school for your child. And, I am suggesting for parents to look wholistically at a school and not solely on the test scores or on some ranking.

Geez, some of you guys really know how to go off-topic and how to attack a post without reason. Try reading an entire post and understand what is being communicated.

By Sarah McCarthy

May 2, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

I usually stay on the sideline and laugh, but when I saw the Geography headline - reality set in. People are in Iraq fighting for a country, that most can’t find on a map.

It doesn’t matter how your school ranks, when students graduate without knowing how to find a state in their own country. I have been an educator for 12 years and every time I see anything related to education, it makes me sad. But what makes me truly sad, is the response of some of the educators on this blog.

Yes, you can blame their parents - but teachers, principals and administrators should be outraged at today’s headline. This is a sad reflection of our occupation and I take my job seriously.

I have worked in my field, long enough to see people who just don’t care about the kids and some who would die for every child in their class. If you don’t have the patience to teach all children, even those who don’t want to be there, it’s time to move on.

I have a few closing words: “There are two kinds of people, those who do the work and those who take the credit. Try to be in the first group; there is less competition there.”

By kb

May 2, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

If multiple schools from the 49th ranked state in the country - Georgia - made the list, then that ought to tell you something about the list! Anything can look good in relative terms!!! The education system needs an overhaul, not a list!

By kb

May 2, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

If multiple schools from the 49th ranked state in the country - Georgia - made the list, then that ought to tell you something about the list! Anything can look good in relative terms!!! The education system needs an overhaul, not a list!

By Dan

May 2, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

Why would that be KB, clearly on such list there is always some bias, but with a list of the top 1000, an average state would have 20 schools on the list. So you would expect a below average state to have multiple schools. It is conceivable that the worst state could have 5 in the top 10, that would simply mean their other schools are that much worse. But you are right the system needs to be overhauled, and that fact is more evident now precisely because we have begun to rank and measure.

By Will

May 2, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

my personal faves are the schools ranked so high they keep them off the list so as new to askew the others. i guess i’m just proud of my former school, Pine View School for the Gifted.

GO PYTHONS!

By kb

May 2, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

Maybe I did not articulate my point very clearly. After all, I was government educated.

If you look at the student test scores from our schools here is GA, there’s nothing to be proud of. I can’t find one school (public) that seems to be that far removed from the whole. My point is that when one publishes a list of “top schools”, that implies to the average person that these 1000 top schools are of very high “Harvard” quality. Unfortunately, for the vast, vast majority of schools on that list, that is not the case.

Let’s deal with real numbers, like how far we are falling behind other countries in academics. That ought to be alarming. In this global economy, our children will be competing with those better educated kids from other countries one day.

By admissionscounselor

May 2, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

I’m not really interested in the percentage of kids taking AP classes at a candidate’s high school. This Newsweek list is more or less a list of high schools with unusually low poverty levels. I am much more interested in how the kids who take the AP actually score. I am also more interested in SAT scores… comparing apples to apples.

You can’t compare an overall SAT score of a diverse school with that of a wealthy subhurban school. You have to compare apples to apples. If you compare the non FRL kids SAT scores or percentages taking the AP to non FRL kids in rich subhurban schools, you would see that a lot of the upper middle class kids in the Atlanta urban schools (Grady and Decatur as an example) typically substantially outscore similarly upper middle class kids at most of the subhurban schools on both AP and SAT tests. If you don’t believe me - check it out on the GADOE school report card website - it’s all there.

Nope I couldn’t give a rip about how many kids take the AP at an applicant’s high school. I’d actually rather see a smaller percentage of kids taking AP classes. A large percentage of AP takers indicates a likelihood that the class is stuffed with a bunch of kids who are not qualified. They will slow everyone down so the kids who are truly deserving will learn less and not score as well, and their parents will have wasted a bunch of money.

Completely meaningless ranking IMO. BTW, 25 Georgia high schools are on the list if you are wondering.

By admissionscounselor

May 2, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

BTW, RA…. no… not every kid who wants to take an AP course should be able to. That would be a very, very bad thing and would make AP testing a waste of time and money for everyone involved. Kids who cannot do AP work have no business taking AP classes no matter how well connected their parents may be.

Simlarly, everyone who wants to should not be able to take the SAT in the hope that they will hit the lottery with their guesses and get into Harvard. I see too many unqualified freshmen at my school as it is - they seldom last more than a year. What a waste.

By Atlanta Teacher AW

May 2, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this

I just scanned the entire list, and I noticed that a majority of the GA schools listed were in either East Cobb, North Fulton, or the “good” side of Gwinnett (i.e. Brookwood and Parkview).

Seems to me that the schools in well funded districts are more likely to make the list compared to other schools across the state.

I also find it alarming that Newsweek only looks at the percentage of students who TAKE the AP classes, as opposed to observing the percentage of students who actually PASS the exams…

As a high school teacher, I know a few students who think they are able to take AP courses, but honestly don’t have the mental capacity, diligence, or maturity to succeed. To me, those rankings only indicate that schools that get more money from property taxes are more likely to make the list.

By Karen Armsby

May 3, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

Admissions counselor, The kids who score well at your example of the diverse Grady and Decatur schools are probably the children of CDC scientists, Emory professors, Georgia Tech professors, and midtown/intown lawyers, doctors and business people who can afford to live ITP in the pricey houses and high taxed neighborhoods surrounding Grady and Decatur schools. They choose to send their kids to public schools in their neighborhoods with children of other professionals like themselves. The so-called rich suburban schools have much larger student populations that are pretty diverse depending on which school you look at, not as rich as you think, and the percentage of AP or SAT success is naturally going to be less than of Grady or Decatur.

By DHHS

May 3, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

Karen Armsby:

Children of Emory University and Emory Hospital, for the most part, attend the public school in DeKalb County - Druid Hills High. Druid Hills gets the same amount of money as all other DeKalb County schools. The interesting thing is the extreme diversity of Druid Hills. While it does have well-to-do students and some extremely smart students (often scoring perfect on the SAT and attending Harvard, Yale, Duke, etc.), they also have a large share of poor students and students at-risk academically. In fact, the majority of students at Druid Hills receive “free lunch.”

Druid Hills offers both AP classes and is also an IB school. And, it offers an array of special ed classes as well as gifted classes in most subjects. And, the student population is less than 1500 (usually around 1050) so it is not the mega-school like Brookwood or Parkview.

The school has a tremendous art program (winning national awards) and music program (with orchestra). I guess the only area that the school really does not excel at is football and basketball (they do well in golf and some of the so-called “minor” sports).

While yes, the student population includes those from around Emory, it also includes some of the “poorer” areas from around Clarkston and other parts of DeKalb County.

Bottom line is that diversity (in race, in socioeconomic background, etc.) and success can go hand in hand. Many of the well-to-do parents send their children to Druid Hills not only for a great education but also to learn from the diversity - something that is lacking in many/most of the top high schools.