Get Schooled

By V for Vendetta

April 21, 2006 08:02 AM | Link to this

This is just evidence of how out of hand testing has become. What, we only have to really TEACH four days a week now? Soon it will be three, and then two, and then, well, I guess they wont need us anymore. Good luck with all that.

By SNY

April 21, 2006 08:07 AM | Link to this

Good morning everyone!!

I think this is a great idea. If the teacher can put what the kids are currently learning into a test with the same format as the CRCT what could it hurt? It will give the students time to get used to the format. That way as long as they know the information, the test shouldn’t be a problem.

By Karen Armsby

April 21, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this

Testing before the test is just further proof that the goal of school system administrators is to get the best test statistics, not educate students. Teachers teaching to the test instead of teaching students how to learn will not contribute anything to their students’ success. In fact, the increased focus on test outcome interupts the learning process.

Assessment should be an ongoing process the teacher uses in the course of her teaching in a series of feedbacks, using quizzes, weekly tests, papers, and participation in class. Teachers know who is learning and who is not, who is failing and who is excelling. The standardized tests are only for the school administrators to use for publication, not for the individual student’s education.

By SNY

April 21, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this

Karen,

If we only went by what the teachers say then what happens when a teacher and a student really just don’t get along. Then it will be totally up to the teacher to decide if the student passes or not. Shouldn’t there be an equal way to resolve this. (Please people, don’t say it doesn’t happen.)

By oldteacher

April 21, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this

SNY, I don’t think I understand your comment.

By Karen Armsby

April 21, 2006 09:10 AM | Link to this

SNY, Realistically speaking the percentage of teachers and students who don’t get along is a small number, don’t you think? Your implication is that most teachers are biased and unfair, and I heartily disagree with that assumption.

The focus on teaching to the test is a practice that is encouraged by school admins who want the pass rates to be high for their schools. The time the teacher takes in the class to teach the test format to the students could be better used actually teaching the students. What option would you choose for your child; that he has repeated drills to learn to run a maze before he has to be tested running the maze, or he is taught how a maze is designed,how to build a better maze, or how to escape from the maze?

I think teaching to the test, pretesting, and the whole standardized testing regimen is a waste of teacher and student time and energy and doesn’t result in any education of the studnet. It’s an adminstrative paper chase.

By SNY

April 21, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this

Before these standardized tests started to be such a pain in the Ha-Ha, students still had to learn how to take a test. Right or wrong? They still had to know how to study for a test and they still had to make sure that they knew the material for the test. If students are tested using that format all year long, wouldn’t that help a little bit? Example:

students are learning about verbs and nouns, they do worksheets all week, they talk about it in class, the bring home homework sheets. Then when Friday rolls around, the teachers put the same material on a test made to look like the format of the CRCT. Wouldn’t that help just a little bit? That way at the end of the year, the format is familiar.

By Dan

April 21, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

Unfortunately Karen While the testing method has it’s detractors and is unproven, your suggestion is proven, proven to fail. The testing has been implemented because far too many kids have been passed right through the system and come out the other end uneducated. And quite frankly if they were being taught efectively on the curriculum being tested, (and they were receptive) the test would be a cake walk regardless of teaching the format. Especially if they get used to the format at a young age. Hey I am 42 and I was in a reading program in 4th grade that simply reading various stories and excerpts and taking a test (I think it was some kind of SRA reading lab) and we had standardized tests every couple of years, so its nothing new.

By Susie

April 21, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this

The only thing that strikes me about this is that maybe doing this might make the kids feel less anxiety when it’s time to do the real thing. They’ve been doing this all year, so it’s “old hat” to them. Being really used to doing something by practicing makes you more at ease when it’s time for the “Big One,” whether we are talking about CRCT, the drivers license test, just whatever. If you are used to doing it, you’re going to be better at it AND less stressed, which I think is about half the problem with the kids that don’t do well.

By Kage

April 21, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

I think there is some merit to ‘testing before the test’.

We have to keep in mind that, right or wrong, students are being measured by these tests for various purposes - promotion/retention, qualifying for EIP, qualifying for gifted. Increasingly, teachers are losing a voice about the placement of their students. If a student’s score qualifies him/her for EIP services, that student is placed there regardless of my input. This year I had two students I felt should not be in EIP classes, but their scores were the only qualifiers. Conversely, I had a student whom I thought would significantly benefit from an EIP model, but I could not get her placed there because she had scored 301 on the CRCT.

When scores are weighted this heavily for individual students, I feel I have a responsibility to ensure that the scores reflect the students’ abilities. Obviously, practice tests aren’t a guarantee of this, but I do believe they help. Students are more confident going into the test. They’ve learned explicit skills to help them pass.

And it’s not like the test taking skills don’t translate to anything else they’ve learned. As a third grade teacher, my pre-test testing heavily emphasizes the reading portion of the test. Much of our practice involves looking back in the passage to find the answer (underline it, highlight it, etc.). The point we try to drive home is that the answer is right there if they just read carefully. Isn’t this a skill we all need to have? When you’re assembling furniture, reading tax code, or baking a pie - don’t you need to read the directions carefully in order to be successful?

Another skill we practice is narrowing down answer choices. Evaluating and eliminating choices is a thinking skill. Children don’t employ it automatically. It has to be taught. And it ties nicely into our probability studies. The ability to evaluate choices is another skill that has applications beyond the test.

These skills - reading for information, evaluating choices - are not only taught on practice tests. I try to make the connection to real life activities they had done explicit. ‘Think about the time we made brownies to learn about convection and conduction. Do you remember that we had to double check the recipe to make sure we added the sugar to the unsweetened chocolate at the right time? Look at this question - it’s the same thing. It’s asking if you add the coconut before or after you’ve melted the chocolate.’

I guess that’s my beef when I hear that teachers are only teaching to the test. I teach test-taking skills that I believe are necessary for the students to be successful. It is not my only form of assessment. I would be remiss, however, if I did not offer these eight year olds any clue as to how to take a test that impacts their lives so much.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 21, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

2nd and 3rd graders do need to learn how to take a test. They are not very familiar with the process. However, by 4th grade they should be able to follow through without weekly bubble testing.

The chapter test “take each week” are not comprehensive enough to identify students who may struggle. It only identifies students who are struggle on the material covered that week. Most teachers don’t go back and cover an entire chapter when students are struggling. They move on to the next chapter. But, where does this leave the children.

I do agree that teachers should test students “often” to identify students who may possibly struggle with the CRCT. The test should be comprehensive of what has been covered in the past. There is not harm in doing this.

My daughter was concerned about the Social Studies portion of the CRCT this year, because there were questions they had not covered on the test last year. We spent an entire weekend reviewing and discussing portions of her Social Studies book. I did not know what would be covered, but I wanted to give her comfort.

By luvs2teach

April 21, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

SNY - most teachers do something similiar to what you describe. I don’t think that’s the point - we’re talking about additional tests, on top of regular, for-a-grade, based-on-what-we’ve-been learning tests. Actual learning time used for learning to take the test, as opposed to learning material that will be on the test.

Practice tests can be useful - they can pinpoint areas of weakness and introduce students to some of the testing terminology and question style (which may be different from what they see in class). Unfortunately, like anything else in education, they can be overused.

I use CRCT style questions as my daily warm-up and I put a few CRCT-style questions (from released tests, the online practice site, and test prep books) on my regular tests. That helps. As the time draws near, I will have the kids do a practice test to help me determine my key areas of review. And that’s about it - the rest of the time, we doing regular science classroom work.

By SNY

April 21, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

Kage,

Thank you, you said what I was trying to say only better.

By luvs2teach

April 21, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this

Forgot to mention - one thing that CRCT and/or multiple choice questions don’t do is assess critical thinking and writing skills needed for answering essay questions.

We are graduating kids who can’t write a coherent paragraph! I wonder if all the recent focus on multiple choice assessments has robbed our kids of developing another area of skill?

By SNY

April 21, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

luvs2teach,

Thank you, it feels good not to be jumped on for voicing my opinion and TRYING to help.

By Karen Armsby

April 21, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

Standardized tests are easy for some, and create great anxiety in other students. Kage, sounds like you are using the teaching to the test as your teaching format, not by advancing in your lesson plans.

I think it is good for students to be familiar with a test format, but the teaching to the test and multiple practice tests are a waste of teaching time, IMHO. I am not a teacher just a mom of 3 smart kids who did very well in school despite the mind numbing teaching to the test and pretest drills, and weeks wasted in standardized tests.

If you want to teach the test format and give practice tests, why not offer an after school or Saturday opportunity for kids who need the practice, or to overcome test anxiety to get the extra practice time in. A couple of teachers on a Saturday could handle what the whole grade level wastes classroom time on during the week.

I given my thoughts in other blogs on curriculum reform, removing age based learning levels in elementary, etc. There are many ways to improve education, but I don’t think all of the standardized testing will fix what’s broken. Test statistics are misleading and manipulated by school admins and not used to remediate for students.

By Susie

April 21, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Kage, I think you are right. Especially the teaching them that the answer is there if they just READ!

I constantly tell my kids to always read ALL the answers before choosing one, even if they think they are sure what the answer is…there might be a different answer that is more “complete” than the one they would originally choose.

As long as you are giving a test on what they’ve learned in the past week or so anyway, why NOT put it in a “bubble test” format? It will help make them more comfortable with that kind of test if they have a few of them throughout the year. They are going to be tested on what they’ve learned in each chapter of whatever subject it is anyway, so how can it hurt to do a few in that format? I think it can only help.

By Karen Armsby

April 21, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this

Kage, And one more point, you said these tests impact their lives so much, and my question is WHY should these series of tests be the ‘eye of the needle’ that students must pass through? There are plenty of assessment tools in place that you obviously already use. Working for success on these tests has assumed too large of a part of time and energy spent in the learning process.

By Molly

April 21, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

Frequent use of well designed tests to gauge what students have learned (also known as formative assessment) is a sound educational practice. Unfortunately, the CRCT is not a well designed test. Even the best multiple choice exams have limited value in formative assessment. It is much easier to select a correct answer from a list of 3 or 4 possible answers than it is to derive the answer. Very little in life is multiple choice. As adults, we need the ability to solve problems, not select a correct answer from a list provided.

By luvs2teach

April 21, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

Karen - test taking is a skill and and like any other it can be taught. Some kids acquire it naturally - I know I did - I’m an excellent test taker (and driver, too, LOL). My point is that I learned how to read carefully, and how to narrow down choices, and I get better results on tests than I might based on my raw knowledge alone (yeah, I’m willing to admit that!). I acquired it because, even from an early age, I enjoyed quizzes, trivia, and puzzles (I loved Reader’s Digest “Word Power” feature).

So I was self-taught, and it did me well - now, though, there is a focus on results, and we do the kids a disservice if we don’t teach them what comes naturally to some. What Kage describes doesn’t sound like teaching to the test - it sounds like teaching skills.

I agree 100% though, that reading, and reading, and more reading is a key!

And they are now so important because politicians sold the American people a bill of goods on this one!

It’s like the old Toyota slogan - “You asked for it; you got it, TESTING (and accountability)”

SNY - you’re welcome :-)

I didn’t know exactly what went on in classrooms and schools until I began teaching - and I was active in my children’s schools before that!

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 21, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

I keep seeing people reference “ALL” these standardized test. To be very frank and honest, there aren’t that MANY test being taken. There may be 3 or less each year in my school district. My daughter took a Writing Test in January, Another test during the fall and now the CRCT.

As a parent I’m glad someone, besides myself, is interested in her Writing skills. I use the other test to see if maybe she needs help in other subjects. My daughter exceeded in every area, but Social Studies was an area she didn’t score as high as the other sections. As a Parent, I took it as an opportunity to spend additional time with Social Studies this school year.

I don’t want my daughter to be LOST in the system and become one of the UNDER-EDUCATED students going off to college. I want my daughter to be able to choose between UGA and HARVARD. I don’t want her to graduate only being able to get into UGA. I’m not insulting the school, but using it as an example.

My point is, that more than schools are looking at standardize test scores. I also look at chapter test, homework and classwork.

By Kage

April 21, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

I have no control over how the CRCT is used - save writing politicians and superintendents. If I had my way, the CRCT would be administered every other grade, starting at grade 3. It would include constructed response items in which students have to solve problems and explain their rationale. Most states already have this. The CRCT would have little impact on promotion/retention. Scores could be used as one measure of placing a child in EIP, but not the only one. Teachers’ opinions on placement would be valued rather than dismissed. Students’ portfolios would carry more weight in placement than scores on a single day would.

As far as giving bubble tests all year long - I suppose it would make sense when the assessment warrants a multiple choice test. However, most of my assessments are not multiple choice. I use journal entries, projects, performance assessments, and proofs as regular assessments. When I do employ traditional tests, they are more often fill in the blank or constructed response.

By Karen Armsby

April 21, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

luvs2teach, I agree with you that test taking is a skill, but IMHO the time taken to prepare, teach to the test, pretest, etc. is too much time taken out of the teaching and learning that could actually be used to advance students in their knowledge, and critical thinking skills (referencing your previous comment).

Molly, I agree with you! The CRCT is an imperfect test, and so results cannot demonstrate or measure the students’ knowledge, only test the accuracy of agreement with the test preparer’s flawed efforts.

Kage, I am not trying to take anything away from your talents as a teacher, sounds like you have an excellent grasp of what teaching is. I am dismayed by the lack of challenge by teachers to the actual need for these tests and teachers’ lack of challenge to the accuracy of the test instuments. Garbage in equals garbage out.

By luvs2teach

April 21, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this

Karen - I agree with you that the overemphasis of the test is a rpoblem, but I disagreed with your comment about Kage’s techniques being an example of teaching to the test.

That to me is when you focus solely on the test and test questions and do nothing else. Incorporating naturally into day to day teaching is good, IMHO - it shows the kids how this stuff relates.

And I’m married to someone who NEVER reads the directions, so maybe that makes me less than impartial!

By RA

April 21, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

As a parent, I orignally used the CRCT practice test and booklets as a part of at homework to help my average and sometimes anxious elementary school son to be comfortable with the format. In the process, I quickly realized that it was a terrific way to pinpoint concepts he had never seen before or that he needed more practice with.

He doesn’t seem to mind practicing and with the instantly available score online, he often gets a little confidence boost when he does well. I appreciate that part especially.

I find that with my very bright and never anxious middle school daughter, the practice tests are a big waste of time. She thinks they are a joke and often chuckles over questions that she finds overly simplistic.

She always makes a perfect score on the tests and clearly doesn’t need anymore practice. I would like for her to be given something more challenging to do during that time during school.

By SET

April 21, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

Maybe I’m missing something here.

When I was in grade school in the 1960’s we had weekly “drills” or “quizzes” and I believe our scores on these things were kept in a book the teacher had.

So is any of this news? Why is anyone complaining?

By RA

April 21, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

This topic has reminded me of a question I had about CRCTs: (My family is new to GA.)

My 2nd grader came home crying last week before the first day of testing. After many attempts, I finally got him to tell me that his teacher had put two large stuffed animals on a table in front of the class and told them that the two students with the highest score on the CRCT would win the stuffed animals.

He said he was crying because he knew he “would never be able to win those stuffed animals.” Of course, he is right. He won’t.

In other places I’ve lived, standardized test scores are completely secret. (Though of course, every student knows who probably scored the highest.) I don’t think this teacher is planning to reveal the scores, only the two top scorers.

At first I was outraged and wanted to call the teacher to complain. Then I thought, possibly, it is a common practice here. Is it? Was I wrong to be outraged? After all, top scorers on the SATs are published in the paper.

Or was a I wrong not to complain?

By oldteacher

April 21, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

As far as I am concerned, RA, you had a perfect right to be outraged! I am outraged. I encourage my students to do their best, but I certainly don’t want them to think that they are in competition with each other. I would complain.

By luvs2teach

April 21, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

RA - ick - I don’t think that was appropriate at all! It shows a lack of sensitivity for both kids who struggle as well as academically strong kids who might be embarrassed by their abilities.

Wow - it also doesn’t teach a very good “life lesson” IMHO.

By RA

April 21, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Oh Thank You! I really struggled with that. I hate to be a complainer and I know with my children I can be overly sensitive. (Especially with my 2nd grader who struggles with school.) So I doubted my reaction. I’m new to this school too and don’t want to get off on the wrong foot and be labled a trouble maker from the first.

I did talk with my son about it and told him I thought it was inappropriate. He knows he’s not the smartest kid in the class or even the 10th smartest kid and I think he is struggling with that, as much as anything. (Since his two older siblings probably are easily one of the smartest. Which is another issue entirely.) He seemed a lot better after just talking about it.

And now I feel better too!

By RA

April 21, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

luvs to teach: I just reread your post and again, you are so smart about kids. My oldest son often refused to accept academic rewards in elementary school. He once infuriated a teacher for refusing to go on stage and get an award for top student in his grade. When I asked him why he wasn’t proud, he said, “Mom, I just want to be a regular kid.”

In my opinion, competition in school is good sometimes, especially as a motivator for those in the middle, but for kids on the extremes, it can be very damaging.

By oldteacher

April 21, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

RA, you sound like an excellent mother. Your kids are very lucky.

By SET

April 21, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

“I encourage my students to do their best, but I certainly don’t want them to think that they are in competition with each other. I would complain.”

Guess what, they are in competiton with each other. For jobs, spouses, housing, medical care, and everything else in life. By promoting an agenda to the contrary you cripple these kids and help make more of them roadkill than would otherwise occur.

Maybe my viewpoint isn’t popular with the educators on this blog - and maybe that’s because *public school teachers don’t live in the real world”.

It bothers me that I see so many people doing worse than their potential because they have been babied and filled with fantasies about their “rights”.

And what I mean by potential is poverty, homelessness, violence (being victims), and institutionalization (jail and nuthouses).

The way you encourage students to do their best is by having swift and sure unpleasant consequences - daily and weekly (if not hourly). That usually means frequent testing - even something as simple as calling on them in class. It’s humiliating if you have to respond to a call by standing up and answering questions in front of all the class about what you were supposed to have learned at that point.

This “keep them happy” policy is why the left side of the bell curve does so much worse now than in 1965. None of my teachers kept my classes happy and the dumbest people in my schools have done well enough because of the attention we all got at that time.

By RA

April 21, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

SET: I actually agree with you to a certain extent. That is why I struggled so with my reaction to the stuffed animals. I have told my oldest son (a National Merit Scholar, by the way—just a little boasting) that school is a competition and if he wants to win he has to work. I don’t talk like this to my younger son.

I was first in my class in college and again, I’ve told my older kids that it was not just because I was smart, but because I wanted to be the winner and I worked for it. They are very smart and they can be the winners if they choose.

But now, with my 3d child, I’ve gotten my glimpse into the “left side of the bell curve,” to which you so often refer. And it has been an eye openenr for me. My baby works twice as hard as my National Merit oldest and he gets half the results. He will never be the winner in any academic competition. And I see how day after day, already in 2nd grade, he is beaten down by this.

You mentioned the “keep them happy” policy. I know you are refering to populations and I am refering to just one little boy. But I have often said to my husband and my son’s teachers, that he struggles with academics and if this holds true over the longer term, its going to be a problem. But his greatest strength is that he is a very, very happy little boy. And what I don’t want is to see that taken away just because he isn’t on the “right side of the bell curve” intellectually.

I don’t know the answer to these things. That’s one of the reasons I lurk on this blog so often. I’m just searching like everyone else.

And by the way, I apologize for dragging this blog off topic.

Also, old teacher: thank you again. I really appreciate your kind words.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 21, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

I don’t think the CRCT should be a competition. However, SET is correct - your children will be competing for the best jobs.

Not only that, rewards are usualy given in class to top performers all the time. It happens at work as well. It’s more competitive at work, when your BONUS is at stake.

RA - I would have challenged the teacher to make it fair, by seeing if she can get 100% of her class to PASS the CRCT. Or getting 30% of her class to reach the EXCEEDING Level of the CRCT. Then she could have held a “Drawing” of names to see who would take the bears home.

By Leia

April 21, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

RA - that is so sad about your little boy! I give out “prizes” (aka - candy!) too in my classes (high school math), but, I also give out prizes for Most Improved (which cannot be won by the person with the highest average!), or Hardest Worker.

Maybe you could give your son a stuffed animal for his own category.

By luvs2teach

April 21, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

I’m not anti-competition - not at all - and I’m not a self-esteem at any cost person either. I like a balance!

Kids can be exposed to competition in appropriate ways - RAs situation was not appropriate, in my opinion.

Science fair? Appropriate. Teddy bears for test schores? Not so much!

By oldteacher

April 21, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

When I gave my kids a treat after the testing was over today, I had several ask what was it for. I told them that it was for coming every day and surviving the test. Not one of my kids missed a day this week. PS, they all said thank you.

By luvs2teach

April 21, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

RA - your child may yet find his groove! He may not be academically smart, but he may be the one in the family who can put things together, or have a fantastic artistic eye. He may be the athlete or musician.

From the Tribune, India:

“Beethoven… His father called him hopeless, but he went on to become a world-famous composer.

Winston Churchill… He failed the sixth grade. Later, he became the Prime Minister of England.

Thomas Edison… Edison’s teacher told him he was unable to learn. He invented the light bulb.

Albert Einstein… Einstein could not speak until the age of 4; he couldn’t read until the age of 7. He discovered the theory of relativity.

Henry Ford… As a teenager, he was evaluated as showing “no promise”. Ford invented the Model T car.

Louis Pasteur… He was given a rating of “mediocre” in chemistry at Royal College. Pasteur later became a famous bacteriologist and chemist who made valuable contribution to the world of medicine.

Issac Newton… Issac’s work in elementary school was “poor”. He went on to discover the law of gravity.”

Never give up hope - always let them know you care - don’t settle for less than their best!

By RA

April 21, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the suggestions—I’m going to mention them all as alternatives when I get the courage to speak to my son’s teacher about the teddy bears.

This is so off the topic, I feel guilty persuing it, but I just had to add one more thing after reading the last couple of posts (which I agree with completely).

My middle schooler has been coming home for weeks saying things like, “Oh, I got the highest score today on the practice CRCT so I got a Tootsie Roll!” And I would say something off handed like, “Good job,” or “Good for you.” It wasn’t until my youngest was upset about the stuffed animals that I even gave that any thought.

So, its like I’m for competition when my kid wins, against it when my kid loses. I hate that!

I guess I’m always conflicted about the how and when of competition in school. There seems to be a time and place for it certainly. I agree: Science Fair, absolutely; CRCT, maybe not.

But I wasn’t against competition at the SAT level—was that just because my son was the winner or because he was a lot older? I can’t say.

One of my first thoughts about the teddy bears were that my son is going to have to learn to toughen up a little because more of this is coming. Then my next thought was that I wish it didn’t have to be that way.

Anyway, again, I’m going to offer your suggestions to the teacher (if I get brave). Thanks so much—clearly I needed some guidance (ha!).

By SNY

April 21, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

RA,

You and your son can only do what you can do. As long as he tries his best, that is all that you can ask from such a young child. This is just a suggestion, but have you had your older children try to help your son grasp something that he didn’t get at school. I know that helps for some kids. For some reason, children can get through to other children better than adults can. Give it a try and see what happends.

I’ll look for other methods on the internet for you and let you know if I come up with something else that might work.

We all may disagree with one another from time to time on this blog but we all care. If you and your son are struggling with school then we are here to help you as best we can. Even if it is just with encouraging words. Have faith and I bet you he’ll do just fine.

By teach overseas

April 24, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this

I’m going to respectfully disagree with the outrage expressed at the teacher who is giving the teddy bears as a reward for doing well on the CRCT test.

RA- I think you are denying your son of a valuable learning tool by complaining to the teacher. Are you planning to get rid of all achievement rewards given to students just because your son may not win them? I think the lesson here is that your son can learn to be happy for the success of others just as he should expect kudos when he is successful at what he does. Won’t you expect others to stand and cheer when your son makes the winning touchdown or stars in the school play?

I think everyone is getting a little too uptight about this whole thing. Wait and see how this all pans out. Your son might be happy when it’s his friend who wins the teddy bear. In any case- it’s not the teddy bear he wants, it’s the reconginition of a job well done and you can do that at home. I would be very surprised if the teacher doesn’t do something for the whole class at the end. Give her little credit in knowing and understanding children.

If you still continue to feel very strongly about this- why not call her up and offer to do something for the class as a whole to celebrate a job well done. You will make friends with the teacher and earn yourself a label as a helpful supporter rather than a whiny complainer. This will do wonders for your son as he goes through the school.

By luvs2teach

April 24, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

teach overseas - May I suggest:

Punished by Rewards: The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A’s, Praise, and other Bribes by Alfie Kohn

Rewards can backfire, and in this case, I think it might. Children need to learn to develop intrinsic motivation, and want to do well on the CRCT because they (internally) want their score to reflect their personal best.

The jury is still out on some behaviorist techniques, and the concept of rewards, but personally, in my own opinion, like so much else in education, I think rewards are overused and used inappropriately - this is one of those times.

Just my nickel…

By SET

April 24, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

I did notice the comment about the smart people who did well despite some early academic failure.

The writers really need to start internet research on “The Bell Curve” and related research. They write as if the have no understanding of what it means to have a child or relative who is on the left side of the bell curve.

The men they write of, Churchill, Edison, Einstein, etc. never had IQs of 70 to 85 or worse.

These writers are not trying to learn what it means to go through life with an IQ that low or to care about someone with an IQ that low.

If you’re on the Education blog and care about the quality of life for the people trapped in the public schools you really need to read more about life on the left side of the bell curve. Especially the ethnic averages and curves.

The child referred to in the earlier posts can have a good quality of life even if he is slower than his siblings provided that his family arranges his upbringing so that his strong points are fully developed - he must be great at something… and the child is given a foundation that will allow him to stay out of trouble and fully engaged in the productive side of life.

I would strongly suggest that keep him out of public schools.

By luvs2teach

April 24, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

SET - your post isn’t coming up in its entirety (tech problems, I guess), but I did read The Bell Curve when it came out - highly controversial.

While it has some interesting points (defnitely areas for future research), it leaves out too many factors - cultural and socio-economic, nutrition, etc - the whole idea of nature vs nuture.

Really, what I think my examples pointed out (which I got from an online paper from India), is that not everyone progresses at the same rate or in the same areas of strength - one of the reasons I really feel one-size-fits-all doesn’t work.

There are some on the other side of the Bell Curve - if we have average, then there are going to be some below average! My point is that there are also more ways to measure something as complex as human intelligence - see Howard Gardner’s theories.

By SET

April 25, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

I don’t think the “Bell Curve” position on human biodiversity is controversial at all. I just think that some people just don’t like it. It’s not that it isn’t logical or anything like that.

As time goes on it’s getting easier and easier to measure intelligence. More importantly the developed countries are systematically gathering data on performance by ethnicity. This is what NCLB is really about.

The different ethnics on the average are born with different abilities including intelligence. That is no longer in dispute. It’s just a fact that some consider unmentionable. Whenever their own survival is at stake, all but the self destructive act in accordance with this knowledge.

Doesn’t mean that an individual is smart or slow. You can have either in any ethnicity. It does mean that 5 out of 6 adult of one ethnic is less intelligent than the average 16 year old of another ethnic group. Which is why the lower group as a group has so many problems.

The USA has created chaos by not dealing with reality, by lying to all involved with the “all men/women are created equal (not just under the law)”. The most evil thing the country did is the welfare policy of the “Great Society” which has directly resulted in the elimination of family structure and the resulting deadly pathology we now see in the US blacks (as a group). In the ‘60’s it was assumed that blacks would act as the Scandinavian people did when that country brought in a welfare society. Wrong IQ match.

Back to the point about raising the child who is on the left side of the curve: regardless of how smart or slow an individual is, with support and structure that child can have a meaningful life. It’s easier when you are smart. If you are slow you need the longer term (more intense) training, guidance and control from others. Simply put that child cannot be allowed to do as it wants and to fall into bad company. A smarter person might survive the experience, this child is less likely to.

I have known people who were born with (what later turned out to be) mental issues (B-Polar disorder, for example). If the families had known then what is known now, a lot of pain on everyone involved’s part could have been avoided and these individuals had happier and more productive lives. I believe that knowledge is power. Ra’s child is fortunate in that his family understands what is happening and can act accordingly to stop things from going wrong needlessly. So he’s a luckier child than a lot I have known.