Get Schooled

By dan

April 17, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

Why are your neighbors going to two different schools?

By Susie

April 17, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

Heh, anyone who thinks that neighbors can’t go to different schools doesn’t live in Coweta County.

By Laura

April 17, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

It’s not the loaded question it used to be here in Texas. We now have a law that says if you are in the top 10% of your graduating class, you get automatic admittance into the state college of your choice (top choice is University of Texas). So many many kids are switching to low performing schools in order to be in the top 10%.

Also college advisors are saying the competitive out of state colleges are interested in kids attending urban diverse schools because it’s more interesting.

And in my particular neighborhood, the elementary school is ranked Exemplary, and you would think there would be a lot of boasting, but there’s not. If you peek under the surface you realize it’s not that great. (My son’s 2nd grade teacher taped a kid’s mouth shut and locked him the storeroom to get him to stop talking. The current principal is way too weak. My son is in private school now.)

Then in our neighborhood you have choice when it comes to junior high and high school. You pick between mostly white upper middle class high performing schools and majority minority low performing schools. More and more families are picking the lower performaning schools partly because of top 10% and partly for other reasons. The materialism, keeping up with the Jones’, academic competitiveness, sense of entitlement, cliquiness, boozing and posturing at the high performing schools are too much to stomach for more and more people. And the kids themselves want to be in a diverse environment even if their parents don’t. Most folks buy their house to attend the high performing schools, but change their minds along the way. So, there’s not as much apologizing.

By Robert

April 17, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

Great question, Patti. However, IMHO, the single most important factor that contributes to a schools success is….. parental involvment. So, if any parent is ashamed of the school that their child attends, it is wholly up to that parent to become involved in that school to make changes.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 17, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

The whole Good/Bad School thing is just plain appalling.

What are the criteria for a BAD School? Is it (1.) low-test scores, (2.) high teenage pregnancy (3.) # fights daily/weekly (4.) Dress Code violators (5.) # of free/reduce lunch students (6.) # of Crimes committed by teenagers – outside of school (7.) low parental involvement (8) # of dropouts (9.) # weapons confiscated at school, etc…

Instead of being embarrassed or “Smirking” at people who’s children attend these schools – we should be coming up with serious ways to help out troubled schools in our neighborhoods and outside of them.

Why does it matter how they handle answering the questions about an “Unpopular” school their child attend? I have more “RESPECT” for people who stay the course and try to help deal with the issues at their community schools.

Did anyone see this morning news about the many Atlanta Public School systems parents lined up outside to have their children transferred to other schools? It’s sad that it has come to this situation. My only thought was, WHY, they were not carrying picket signs to address the issues in their current schools.

Seeing these parents also provided an answer to most people, who choose to believe, that black people do “not” care about their children education. It made a liar out of them.

By MMM

April 17, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

So much is expectations. It is easier to live up or down to them rather than attempt to change them. The reality FOR YOUR CHILD is so important that no one wants to make a misstake. Who wants to find out when their child hits college that they were lied to by the administration that assured them that their school was “good enough”?

By MMM

April 17, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

Patti, I just read your discription of your neighborhood and I wonder if you live in or near a city with initials AE? If so, you make is sound like choice abounds—but the choice leaves behind everyone without money to buy the choice

By RW

April 17, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

Robert said: “However, IMHO, the single most important factor that contributes to a schools success is….. parental involvment. So, if any parent is ashamed of the school that their child attends, it is wholly up to that parent to become involved in that school to make changes.”

This comment shows a complete lack of understanding how schools operate. Schools don’t want parental involvement, unless it is as yes-men and yes-women to the principal. School boards are generally unresponsive to parent complaints and concerns. Volunteering at school means being unpaid office help, not doing anything that might actually improve student performance. The only option left to parents is to “vote with their feet” by moving or exercising school choice. This is why we need a full-blown voucher system.

By RW

April 17, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Robert said: “However, IMHO, the single most important factor that contributes to a schools success is….. parental involvment. So, if any parent is ashamed of the school that their child attends, it is wholly up to that parent to become involved in that school to make changes.”

This comment shows a complete lack of understanding how schools operate. Schools don’t want parental involvement, unless it is as yes-men and yes-women to the principal. School boards are generally unresponsive to parent complaints and concerns. Volunteering at school means being unpaid office help, not doing anything that might actually improve student performance. The only option left to parents is to “vote with their feet” by moving or exercising school choice. This is why we need a full-blown voucher system.

By MrLiberty

April 17, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

Unpopular in the Free Market means out of business. Not so with the Government school system.

Instead, people have to be ashamed and disgusted and just “deal.”

What do you care that you continue to support a system that forces this kind of failure on families? So long as its not your kid’s school right?

Sure, maybe Oprah will wave her magic wand and make it all better.

So long as you don’t have to think any differently, or spend any more of your money, or have to be responsible for your kid’s education, or have to vote for someone other than a Republican or Democrat - these things would be too difficult for you.

Don’t be ashamed of the school your kids attend. Be ashamed of yourself for forcing them to go to it.

By high school teacher

April 17, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this

My first teaching job was at the “red-headed stepchild” school in the county. I enjoyed telling people how wrong their perception was and how much I loved teaching there. We did have many fights, lower test scores than the other schools in the county, problems with criminal activity (I’m citing Amazed’s list), but I thought it was a good school. I loved the kids there and they loved me. I still keep in touch with a few - even after 11 years. If you think for a minute that high performing schools don’t have crime, teen pregnancy, and drugs, you are very wrong!

By MrLiberty

April 17, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

RW

The absolute last thing we need is a “full blown voucher system.”

Don’t get me wrong, I really don’t care if the government school system goes out of business. It would likely be the greatest thing that happened to this country since the Revolutionary War.

The problem with vouchers is that they would come covered with attached strings. When a voucher system was being proposed in California in the 90’s, you wouldn’t believe the freaks that came out of the woodwork demanding ridiculous accountability from any school that would be taking the vouchers. Anyone who has talked to school administrators and supreintendants will tell you that one of the fundamental problems with government schools is all of the rules and regulations. Compliance to all of these sucks up tens if not hundrends of thousands of dollars per year with no added value.

Despite paying a paultry sum of money each year in taxes for education, the general public believes this education fund is theirs, and will demand specifcic lisencing of teachers and specific curriculums and methods that will stiffle any imagination or creativity on the part of any school that takes the vouchers.

With vouchers, private schools will end up just as bad as government schools. The damage they would do to Homeschoolers would be devastating.

We need these alternatives to remain as free from government influence as much as possible.

No, the free market, not vouchers is the solution to our problem.

By MMM

April 17, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Patti, I think I can guess your neighborhood from all the choices you discribe. (Is it AE?) If so, all the “choices” besides the “bad” school and the charter one (which has long waiting lists) cost money. How much of that pride do you think is due to being able to afford and get into the private schools? It is a nice way of “proving” your social status. (and confering it on your child.)

By MMM

April 17, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

Patti, I think I can guess your neighborhood from all the choices you discribe. (Is it AE?) If so, all the “choices” besides the “bad” school and the charter one (which has long waiting lists) cost money. How much of that pride do you think is due to being able to afford and get into the private schools? It is a nice way of “proving” your social status. (and confering it on your child.)

By Teacher Teacher

April 17, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

Bad schools become bad, I firmly believe, because of rotten administrators at the top. When the head is diseased, the body will fail. If schools were run in a business-efficient sense, then many, many administrators would be terminated in a quick second for failure to perform well. That’s why I get so worked up about teacher accountability. I believe that concept arose from an administrators’ round table so as to produce a smoke screen to shield incompetent, inefficient, atrocious administrators. The public needs to know that it’s the level in between teachers and the school board that’s rotten!

If you are a teacher, click here to get results. Even if you are a parent or student, click here to cause results.

No school has to be bad. They are allowed to become and be bad.

By Teacher Teacher

April 17, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Bad schools become bad, I firmly believe, because of rotten administrators at the top. When the head is diseased, the body will fail. If schools were run in a business-efficient sense, then many, many administrators would be terminated in a quick second for failure to perform well. That’s why I get so worked up about teacher accountability. I believe that concept arose from an administrators’ round table so as to produce a smoke screen to shield incompetent, inefficient, atrocious administrators. The public needs to know that it’s the level in between teachers and the school board that’s rotten!

If you are a teacher, click here to get results. Even if you are a parent or student, click here to cause results.

No school has to be bad. They are allowed to become and be bad.

By spp

April 17, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

I am a high school teacher in one of the most lowly-regarded metro districts. When I tell people where I teach, some react with a scrunched up face or a sympathetic expression. Really, though, my experience has been that it is not nearly as bad as the media portrays such schools; I doubt I would be completing my 13th year in an environment where I didn’t feel I was getting anything done or my life was threatened! What I do like is that the kids who care show a great deal of appreciation for the teachers who do their jobs. There are a fair number of mediocre teachers at my school and a fair number of frustrated, high-achieving students who resent the fact that some teachers don’t know what they are doing. If I ever change schools or districts, it will be for another low-performing school or district. Every school, no matter how seemingly bad, has students who want and deserve good teachers.

And yes, I am competent enough to teach at an “elite” school as are some of the other teachers here at my school. I resent it when I hear others occasionally imply that any “good” teacher would have left and gone to another district, and that the only ones who stay can’t get a job elsewhere.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 17, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

The hot button education issue for today is the NCLB requirements - regarding the scores that are not being broken out by race according to the number of students taking the test. Yes, there has to be a cutoff point. But, if shows favoratism to school system with smaller minority populations. It helps keep them off the failed school list. I would think with so few minorities, that failure would not be an option at these schools and would not hurt them to be included. Yes, someone is working the loopholes.

I saw another interesting article about Omaha, Nebraska school system and a new bill passed by the Governor last week - where school districts are easily identified as white, black and hispanic.

By spp

April 17, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

I am a high school teacher in one of the most lowly-regarded metro districts. When I tell people where I teach, some react with a scrunched up face or a sympathetic expression. Really, though, my experience has been that it is not nearly as bad as the media portrays such schools; I doubt I would be completing my 13th year in an environment where I didn’t feel I was getting anything done or my life was threatened! What I do like is that the kids who care show a great deal of appreciation for the teachers who do their jobs. There are a fair number of mediocre teachers at my school and a fair number of frustrated, high-achieving students who resent the fact that some teachers don’t know what they are doing. If I ever change schools or districts, it will be for another low-performing school or district. Every school, no matter how seemingly bad, has students who want and deserve good teachers.

And yes, I am competent enough to teach at an “elite” school as are some of the other teachers here at my school. I resent it when I hear others occasionally imply that any “good” teacher would have left and gone to another district, and that the only ones who stay can’t get a job elsewhere.

By Ernest

April 18, 2006 09:01 AM | Link to this

My child attends a MS that had a bad reputation from years past. Ironically, this school also is home to a magnet program. I’ve gotten the ‘rolled eyes’ when I mentioned where he attends school. Bottom line, the school is what we make it to be. I can’t change the perceptions others have of the school but I can easily find ‘like minded’ parents at the school to work with and ensure that ‘high expectations’ is prevalent throughout. This definitely worked for my children at a previous ES whereas through our collective efforts, high achiever programs were added at each grade level. Yes, it would have been easier had there been more parent advocates. I could not worry about that. If I want my children to have more options after high school, establishing a firm foundation is critical. You can realize this in spite of the reputation of a school.

I may have a reputation as a ‘helicopter parent’ or a ‘busy body’, but I take my responsibility as a parent serious to ensure my children recieve the best education possible in our public schools. I get personal satisfaction in knowing that other children at the schools benefit from my ‘reputation’.

By another teacher

April 18, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

I teach math at a “high priority” school. Sometimes, when our SAT scores are published and we’re at the bottom, students comment on that. I tell them that just because they go to the school with the worst SAT scores in the county doesn’t mean that they will get a bad SAT score. It simply means that we have a larger percentage of student who will not do as they’re supposed to do. I tell them that anyone can get a good SAT score by getting the most out of the education that’s available to them.

Sadly, I only half believe my own story. On one hand, it’s true. On the other, I see our classes being dumbed down every single year, and I see pressure from those at the top to pass students who haven’t earned a passing grade. I see behavior getting worse and nothing done about it. I truly feel sorry for those handful of kids who want to get an education.

By SET

April 19, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

“Bad” Schools are bad because they have “bad” people in them.

Do you see any member of Congress or Cabinet staff sending a child to the DC schools?

Any parent who sends their children to a school known for promiscuity and pregnancy, violence and thuggery, and generally failure on all measures - is a “bad” parent.

I’m not saying that they don’t think they love their kids, I’m saying they are bad parents with kids that tend to become bad kids and bad parents also.

Which is why good parents avoid these nuthouses like the plague. If they have to, they move away to a better situation.

The school you send your child to structures their life and it’s very hard to escape a bad upbringing - especially when other people sort acquaintances by the company they keep. Birds of a feather and all that.

Try getting a job when you’re a graduate of a California ghetto school. Your “diploma” marks you as a problem child with bad values. You have to prove yourself over and over if you can.

It is interesting to see immigrant children come through these schools and persevere. When they do well they generally don’t send their own kids to such schools, and they have no illusions of how evil ghetto culture is - unlike liberals with kids in private schools.

By Lee

April 20, 2006 08:33 AM | Link to this

To those who have commented that if your school is bad, it is up to the parents to do something.

The problem with that is that it takes a long time to initiate change. The school system is set up to protect itself. For example, in order to go before the school board during one of it’s meetings, you must first go by the central office (in person, no phone calls or letters) at least two weeks in advance. I have been to numerous board meetings in which citizens/parents come forward with complaints and the board just sits there looking off into space. The chairman thanks the person for their input and promises to take their comments in consideration. End result, nothing gets done.

My daughter previously attended a public middle school which I called the “black hole of education.” I talked until I was blue in the face to teachers, principal, superintendent, and board members. Finally, I got tired of jousting with windmills and pulled her out of the cesspool and placed her in private school. This was a real eye opener to say the least. You see, I didn’t realize the full extent of how bad the school was until I put her in a good school.

As much as I despise paying taxes and private school tuition, I agree with MrLiberty about the vouchers. That is, there is no such thing as “free” government money - it always comes with strings attached.

I’ve only got a couple more years of paying double. I guess after that, I will start saving up to send the future grandkids to private school….

By SET

April 20, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

I thought about this some more overnight. Bad schools have bad adults working there. And by my use of the word I mean that these adults are making the problems continue. Than means “Bad”.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. A school administration that will not snap the whip on kids is responsible for all the blight and behavior problems that occurr even if they had the day off.

A good set of administrators and teachers would make sure the students were too afraid of them to do the things we’ve complained of occurring in “bad” schools.

Good teachers would destroy the self esteem of troublemakers, not keep them high. Good administrators would impose a climate and culture in the school conclusive to learning and would change or remove troublemakers. And they’d back up the teachers attempts to get control of the kids and their attitudes.

We have had too many ghettos in this country with single and working parents - full of people who just migrated in from the sticks where the schools functioned. This was not because the parents (who were away in WWII and working night shifts) were always there but because the schools were stern.

Good teachers and administrators are always tougher and more fierce than the children. This is what a “bad” school doesn’t have.