Get Schooled

By Angela

April 14, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

I was a teacher for three years and made a point to inform my students [middle schoolers, all grades] that I was an individual. My students saw me at a bar with their other teachers, at restaurants and –gasp- walking out of Victoria’s Secret. All three things horrified me, but after much discussion, my coworkers and I concluded that it was perfectly fine for students to realize that their teachers have lives outside of theirs. I’d even admit to my students when I was having a bad day, when I’d had a fight with my mother, or when I missed my best friend. It really helped to bridge that gap between teacher and student and made us into friends, too. That’s a very shady walk to talk, but in my case, it encouraged my students to approach me with respect and consideration, and I did the same to them.

On the flip side, when one of my single coworkers got pregnant, I was one of those people who wasn’t sure how the students were going to take it. In the end, my coworker wound up quitting her job before she began to show; the administration preferred it that way, as it saved them from having to get involved in sex education.

Should teachers be considered saints? No, of course not. But, depending on the age and maturity of their students, discretion should be used.

By Susie

April 14, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

I don’t see anything wrong with a teacher living their life anyway they want, as long as they don’t “bring it to work” with them. I think describing a wild weekend in Vegas would be pretty irresponsible, but having a beer with dinner? They aren’t doing anything illegal, they are of legal age.

If I don’t want my kids doing something, (smoking, drinking,)then it’s MY job to teach them not to do it. “I” am the MAIN example they need to see. YES, a teacher needs to set a good example, and they can do that by not giving out details of their personal life in the first place. If we went to Longhorn and saw one of our kids teachers (which happens quite often) and she’s having a big ole honkin margarita, I wouldn’t expect her to get up and leave, or try to hide it. She’s on her own time, she’s of legal age, and kids have to learn that there are things that grownups can do and kids can’t. And again, it’s not HER job in her PERSONAL time to teach my kids MY idea of right and wrong! It’s MINE!

The teacher in Clayton county who was selling drugs out of her house? Um yeah, she had to go. The teacher at my son’s middle school who was arrested for DUI? He was fired and rightly so. They broke the law and IMO ARE a bad example for kids.

But as far as living their lives, I don’t expect my kids teachers to be any less human than anyone else. If they are doing their job in the classroom, I don’t care what they do when they leave for the evening.

By meme

April 14, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

I actually moved out of the community that I taught in because of the parents and students who wanted to watch every move I made. They would ask me things like; whose car was that parked in front of my house. I couldn’t go to the grocery store without someone wanting to have a conference. I also had students who wanted to come to my home to visit. I have been much happier since I moved two towns away.

By Susie

April 14, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Angela, that reminds me of my youngest when she started preschool. The teacher invited her class to a “get to know you” party at her house, and she said it was so her kids could see that she HAS a house, and she doesn’t live at school! She said she couldn’t count the times she’d be at the grocery store and see one of her little ones, and they’d say “what are you doing here?????” They were amazed that she didn’t just stay/live at the school all the time. Of course we were talking about 3 and 4 year olds, but it’s funny how kids never think about their teachers ever leaving the school!

By knotso

April 14, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

It’s real simple,

If you take your kid into an establishment that serves drinks be prepared to explain should they have any questions. It’s not the teachers job, it’s the parents.

My child has seen school administrators and teachers alike having an adult cold beverage and to him its no big deal, he understands, and has from a very young age, that there are distinct differences in what are acceptable for children and adults.

Parents need to be honest and forthright with their kids but teachers shouldn’t have to answer to students for their personal life.(make that a large period)

By Gail

April 14, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

Teachers should be perfectly free to do what they want with their private lives. And seeing teachers drinking or smoking is not a problem because they are adults and perfectly within the law to do so.

The problem comes with the gray areas. Like when the behavior disagrees with my values but is not illegal. For example, I would have an issue with an obviously pregnant unmarried elementary teacher teaching my kids. While I agree with Susie that it’s my responsibility to provide my kids with morals, it’s difficult for a child to contemplate the difference between what the parent says is a good choice when another main authority figure is making the opposite choice.

High school kids have a greater understanding of unwed pregnancy. If my teen has an unmarried pregnant teacher, it could actually provide an opportunity to discuss my values and the reasons for them. It’s not fair to teachers, but I think it would be best for unmarried pregnant teachers in elementary grades to NOT be in the classroom.

By jim d

April 14, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

I’m confused, Gail,

It’s ok to drink, smoke live life as you will, party down, and sleep around, just don’t get pregnant?

Now there’s a lesson we should all want to teach our kids. (not)

By Susie

April 14, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

Gail, that is true…there are things that I think are wrong and would rather my kids not be exposed to (esp. when they were little)…but when they are exposed to it, and they ask me about it, I have just always told them that while we believe it’s wrong, there are always going to be people who do “the wrong thing.” And that there are people who DON’T think (fill in the blank) is wrong, so they don’t think they are doing anything wrong. I tell them that just because someone else does the wrong thing does not make it ok for us.

This seemed to satisfy them when they were younger. When they are older then they will have their own thoughts about such things…by that time you can’t shelter them from things like unwed pregnancy anyway. But at least by the time they are older, you’ve given them your thoughts about it, and from what I’ve seen now that my two oldest are teenagers, they’ll take that with them and remember it.

By jim d

April 14, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Since Patti posted several topics like the whooping increase in CRCT cut scores to just over 50% would it be proper etiquette to discuss them here

By meme

April 14, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

I have never understood the grading of the CRCT. If my students are required to make a 70 or greater in order to pass my class, why aren’t they required to make a 70 or above to pass the CRCT?

By j

April 14, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

My soon to be wife is a teacher and it was always a choice of hers to drive 15 minutes out of her way to a grocery store out of the school neighborhood in so much as to not broadcast to students and parents that she was picking up a six pack of the best beer in town or toat 2 bottles of white wine. She was always, and still is, cautious of where she shops and where she goes out for dinner or drinks. Nothing is more horrid than tryiong to relax and enjoy the normalities of life outside the classroom without being bombarded by the relentless pursuits of soccer moms and their noisy children! Teacher are a devoted bunch that spend unimaginable hours in and around the classroom, so unimaginable that many don’t realize the true dedication a teacher has until you actually intimately know one or marry one! So when it comes to free time and adult indulges outside the school week, teachers are entitled, if not deserved, a certain type of relaxation that comes without judgement and ridicule! They protray themselves as saints for the sake of the children and out of respect for their parents, not because they want to be seen as saints…they do this because they have respect for thier job and don’t want to influence thier adult choices upon the children they teach. These are just honorable choices teachers make. Is it unrealistic, yes, but for the sake of the children it’s a respectable and very understandable choice.

By Privateschoolguy

April 14, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

Drinking and smoking are both legal actiivities. Far to many young people have no idea what social drinking is since they are shielded from it thier entire lives. These are the kids that think binge drinking is what is the norm when they get away from home. Far more important is for teachers to be civic minded, level headed and intelligent. I would tather have a student see me drinking a beer while reading a book that passed out sober in front of the TV.

By Leia

April 14, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

Sometimes it is difficult to live and work in the same community. Having a student scan my “feminine products” in the grocery store was not comfortable for either of us! (And, this was before they had the scan your own lines!)

By Gail

April 14, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

jim d I don’t agree with all those things, but I support a teacher’s right to do them as long as it’s not affecting my kids. When they bring their unplanned pregnancy into the classroom to be viewed by my kids everyday, it affects my kids. Likewise, I wouldn’t appreciate a drunk teacher in the classroom either, but at least if you’re drunk you can sober up overnight.

I have “teaching experiences” with my kids all the time, but a seven-hour, five-day-a-week, nine-month-per year role model is going to make an impression on young kids. It’s just something I don’t think they should be exposed to.

By jim d

April 14, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

meme, there’s really not any difference. Kids can get a 50 in your class and be promoted too.

By Lori

April 14, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

This is silly. Teachers are no different from anyone else. They should be able to do anything they want so long as it is legal. This includes drinking, smoking, going to strip clubs, watching pornography, buying a skin mag, you name it. These activities are legal for everyone else. As long as they are not doing these activities in the classroom it is no one’s business and that should be obvious.

By meme

April 14, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

Yes, I know that they can be promoted and that they sometimes are, but that is not the same as passing.

By jim d

April 14, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

Gail,

Sorry but I respectfully disagree. Something like that would give me an opportunity to discuss with my child the consequences of ones actions. Thetas a lesson I feel is extremely important and should be taught early on. In hopes that my child wouldn’t make the same poor judgements.

Teaching a child that everyone makes mistakes, yes even teachers, could save them from making the same mistakes later in life. Of course discussing an unwed pregnant teacher with a very young child would require tact and isn’t something a lot of people would be comfortable doing. But let me just say that with very young children the marital status issue need not necessarily come up and age appropriate explanations would be in order.

Personally I don’t think I could cast the first stone at an unwed pregnant teacher. Let me ask you this. What would you say to your child if you ran into a male teacher you knew was single, had a pregnant significant other half who stopped to introduce you to them, say in the mall, while your child was present? Are we setting a double standard that says it’s ok for a male teacher to remain in the classroom when under similar circumstance its not OK for a female?

By jim d

April 14, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

LOL meme, whats the difference?

By Joe

April 14, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

I remember being in the 11th grade when I ran into a teacher of mine at one of the public pools in our small town. Looking back she must have been all of twenty-five and a knock out to boot. I coudn’t wait to tell my friends from school that I saw Miss Kelley in a bikini. I agree that teachers should be free to have their personal freedoms outside of the classroom. Even if you home school them what then? They’ll see their ‘teacher’ in situations around the house they’d normally never see in a teacher at school.

By Ann

April 14, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

jim d…we get it okay, you’re opinion is obvious, we are not idiots. Must you post after each comment? Your poor wife.

By Lori

April 14, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

Ann doesn’t want the unwed mother to have an abortion and she doesn’t want her to show herself in public as a pregnant person either. Can’t have it both ways … (Editor’s note … Please don’t resort to name-calling!)

By meme

April 14, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

Well, Jim, personally (IMHO) there is a big difference.

By Sick & Tired

April 14, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

If you don’t want your child taught by an unwed single woman. I say it’s time for private school, because your thinking will only result in a Supreme Court Case. I’m more than positive the teacher would win.

As long as it’s legal and not on school ground, teachers can do whatever they choose.

I saw an article recently about a teacher who was in a Lesbian relationship. I think it was a private school. The parents and administration were trying to run that lady out of town. No one group of people, should have that much influence over a persons private life.

By BlindHomer

April 14, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this

This should be the beauty of America, on your own time you can look for Mr. Goodbar all you want. Another news item from a previous blog was the rampant property tax mismanagement in Fulton. Hail to the supply siders who said the county should not have to cut school expenses, they will have plenty of revenue if they get the appraisals and assessments right.

By blowbabyblow

April 14, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

One of my most embarrasing moments was seeing my high school band director in a strip club [enjoying a table dance]!!!! I have since overcome that experience and believe that everyone should enjoy their PERSONAL life to the fullest extent within the law.

By teachers rock

April 14, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

I’ve taught for 8 years and have 3 kids. I can tell you from experience that yes, they are watching, and yes, it is very uncomfortable. I rarely have a drink out unless I’m at least 3 counties over. I know it is my right to drink wherever I please, but I also know that the kids are watching and there IS a professional front I need to maintain, mainly for my own sanity. I know I can, but I choose not to, and I think most teachers feel the same way. (I also hate those grocery store conferences…)

By GW

April 14, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this

Why should a pregnant, unmarried teacher have to give up her job? That’s how 65% of her black students and 35% of her white students arrived here.

By blowbabyblow

April 14, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

One of my most embarrasing moments was seeing my high school band director in a strip club [enjoying a table dance]!!!! I have since overcome that experience and believe that everyone should enjoy their PERSONAL life to the fullest extent within the law.

By blowbabyblow

April 14, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

One of my most embarrasing moments was seeing my high school band director in a strip club [enjoying a table dance]!!!! I have since overcome that experience and believe that everyone should enjoy their PERSONAL life to the fullest extent within the law.

By MBW

April 14, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

I am a teacher myself, and I would certainly be on good behavior if I ever encountered a student away from the school.

Yes, it’s important for kids to know that we have lives outside of school and that we are well-rounded human beings, but I believe that we must also remember that our students look to us as examples for behavior. If I am going to be in a setting that involves alcohol, etc, I will make sure that I do so in a place where I know my students are not likely to be. If a student arrives while I am there, I would feel obligated to either make sure my behavior is appropriate or to leave.

By Gail

April 14, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

jim d I respect your opinion as well. I don’t think teachers should be fired over this issue. I have a friend who teaches elementary school and can’t even wear denim to work. It seems to me that an unwed mother is a much more significant statement than a jean pantsuit. I guess I don’t have an answer because I believe very much in personal freedoms.

I make it a point not to speak negatively about my kids’ teachers in front of them because I want my kids to respect their teachers. While I support each person’s freedoms, I don’t agree with the decision that some people make to bring children into the world without benefit of marriage. I can (and have) shared that with my kids. However, with a teacher as a role model in my kids’ lives, the fact is that many times teacher behavior influences children — both negatively and positively.

And by the way, I feel the same way about unwed fathers as I do unwed mothers.

By knotso

April 14, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

Some of you teachers never cease to amaze me, you think kids are dumb, don’t know anything you haven’t taught them and are so self centered you believe you wield unimaginable power over them. I’d wager you even think they believe you conceived your children through Immaculate Conception

By John

April 14, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

If you are in a public position (including teaching), you are in the spotlight 24 hours a day. You owe a responsibility to yourself and to your community to set an example both at and away from work. It’s the price to pay to hold certain jobs.

By paul

April 14, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Lori, that’s one of the smartest things anyone has posted thus far.

Question: Do teachers (like professional athletes) have morals clauses in their contracts?

By buddy

April 14, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

all that stuff about going 30 miles away to shop is inconvenient . if a teenage student works at the store, don’t go in their line with your beer, condoms or tampons. that is the same for anyone that you do not want to see your business (neighbor, co-worker or church member). it’s not a big deal . if you are in a restaurant with a beer or a glass of wine there’s nothing wrong with that. i want to exhibit appropriate behavior whenever i go out in public.apprpropriate public social behavior should be always. inside your home is what you want. if you live in the same neighborhood, what goes on in your home is your business. i would not be on the front nor back porch smoking weed and stinking drunk ,only because i have class.if someone is bold enough to ask whose car was at your home , then i tell them the truth, “that is my company and not your business. you , a child do not ask grown-ups about their business. know your place.”

By Frederick

April 14, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

I am from a small town so everyone knows everyone, yes even the teachers. When I became an adult I came to realize that when these people went out to party, that it was usualy out of town. The teachers could have stayed around town but people are people, talk will get out about what should be private and your credibility is undermined by your personal life. Leaders know that mixing personal with professional is almost always bad, hence all the fraternazation policies. I am ex military and I can tell you first hand that socializing with subordinates undermines your authority, some adults can differentiate (most cannot),please do not expect a child to. I have two children one high schooler and one middle schooler, they do go by what they are told but they watch even closer.

By jim d

April 14, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

Yes Paul,

Teachers in Georgia must abide by this code of ethics. Which is really pretty open ended and up to interpretation.

http://www.white.k12.ga.us/ethics.html

By gene

April 14, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

i commend your friend. he has the students as a whole in his thoughts. while some parents might feel it was no problem, some might not feel that way. the teacher that smoked didnt want to influence a student either way whether smoking was right or wrong. some folks forget the meaning a teacher has on a students life, there have been amny people thru my life whose names i have forgotten , but there mrs.turley in first grade and staff sgt crockett my drill sergeant in boot camp. forever their names are etched in my memory.

By angie

April 14, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

HI, to you all….I have read a few comments made by some of ya’ll and must say I find some of them exteremly judgemental….I am a teacher…I am not married and am in my 30’s and have been thinking about going to a have artifical insemination, which would make me an unwed pregant teacher…..so what you are telling me is that this would be wrong….and you are who exactly to judge me or any one…I do believe per the scripter in the bible that is says “thou shall not judge or cast the first stone.” And, no I am not a religious expert….I just simple believe that people should not judge others until they have walked in there shoes….but again this is my opinion and only my opinion…Hope you all have a very Happy Easter….

By Mike

April 14, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this

There are a few teachers at my local bar. I must say we never talk to them because they can’t keep up intellectually with the coversations. I guess thats why we are ranked 48th!

By g. edwin

April 14, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

Patti, having known you since 2002, I know you are the type of person that understands people do have their own lives, outside of the workplace. Having been in the educational system myself, I see that there is a balance there. Leave your personal imperfections out of the classroom, but Jeez, if a person who is an adult wants to go and do adult things, and the CHILD is in a place where adult things are happening, it should not be the teacher’s responsibility to leave (although, I’m sure it wouldn’t be the worst decision in the world to do so).

By hs sped

April 14, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

I live and work in the same community and I like it. I feel like I have to dress a little nicer when I run into town for errands, and when I go out to eat, but who cares? I like running into students and their parents. I especially love running into the kids at church. However, like Leia, I don’t like them ringing up certain items when I run into them at work. I guess that it’s -to each, his own- as far as this blog is concerned.

By Ned

April 14, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

Artifical insemination!! Wow yea I wouldn’t want you to teach my children if you can’t even find a man to make a family with what does that say about you???

By hs sped

April 14, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

Ned-what an ugly thing to write.

By jim d

April 14, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

Another of the articles mentioned above by Patti is in regards to Alvin Wilbanks bad mouthing the Gov.

This man and his tactics are a subject dear to my heart.He comments that Gov. Sonny Perdue and other elected officials have been putting politics before students.

This is the same man that just a few short years ago placed the Gateway test ahead of what was best for our students.

The same man that took as I recall a 6-figure bonus along with a substantial pay increase and auto expenses.

The same man that just last year pushed for a multi million dollar new central office rather than spend the money building schools and this is the very same guy that now advises our BOE that the States Attorney General, Thurbert Baker, is wrong about the sunshine laws in this state and that they can continue to vote to spend millions of dollars in secret.

I predict that he will also be the one person responsible for failure of the next SPLOST referendum just due to his attitude towards taxpayers and their rights.

I can’t help but wonder what he’d be saying right now if his school super. position was still an elected position.

By GW

April 14, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

Dear Mike the Bartender (3:53PM), You must have graduated from Georgia Tech.

By Gail

April 14, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

Angie, I don’t think you’re a bad person just because I might not agree with your choices. I think a lot of what is wrong with our society today (including schools) stems from a lot of children being brought into the world without the benefit of two caring and involved parents. That is not the case with everyone who has a child and is not married, but there is too much “baby mama” and “baby daddy” drama out there. And a lot of children are suffering for it.

A baby is not something we just decide we want to have — like a new car — whether we can afford it or have the right circumstances to provide the best life for a child. Many people in today’s society act like it’s no big deal to raise a child as a single parent. The children are the ones to suffer from this. It’s bad enough when life’s circumstances cause these kinds of things to happen. Don’t walk into it deliberately.

By Becky

April 14, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

I had a teacher in high school that was living with his lady friend & he was told to marry her or quit teaching. I don’t think this was right because I knew of 2 or 3 students (myself included) that were living with someone also. Should they have made us quit school? Morals are to be taught at home, not at school..

By C.R.H.

April 14, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

Mike, maybe they understand the conversation but do not enjoy your condescending attitude. I am pretty sure you would have a difficult time competing with someone like myself with 2 degrees in science and a passion for putting psuedo-intellectuals in their place. BTW…a teacher can be fired & lose their teaching certificate for minor infractions like drinking in public, wearing a thong bikini or any other “ethics” violation that seems to offend some busybody’s sensibilities. The 10th part of the ethics code is very open ended and can be used against a teacher.

By Mike

April 14, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

@GW

I am not a bartender, but I am an engineer. Never went to college I grew tired of showing the teachers how things really worked. Anytime you want to compare paychecks and see who is smarter let me know!

By Mike

April 14, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

@GW

I am not a bartender, but I am an engineer. Never went to college I grew tired of showing the teachers how things really worked. Anytime you want to compare paychecks and see who is smarter let me know!

By John

April 14, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

I remember an incident when I was in high school that involved two teachers, a guidance counselor and a student teacher—all single, young and female—circling a local fast food restaurant one night while they were intoxicated. They all were relieved of their jobs before the next school year.

By Darlene

April 14, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

This is the “same old, same old” of trying to set higher standards for some people because of their job choice! If parents raised their own children instead of relying on the teachers or someone else to do it, then they would be taught that their teachers are human, live in a house, actually eat food, have, boyfriends/girlfriends, husbands/wives, children (yes, teachers get pregnant the same way the students’ mothers’ do) and have a life that does not involve the school and the students. Most who moan and groan about the teachers, policemen, firefighters, etc. are the same ones who are not living an exemplary life themselves!

By Martha

April 14, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

Teachers, more than anyone else—well, okay, maybe the preacher, should be aware of what they do and how it will look to their students. Yes, we may be old enough and yes, we are adults, and yes, we can do what we wants, BUT…there are students who will sit back and wait for the “right” time to say, “Mrs. Jones, what were you going to do with all that beer I saw you buying at the Food Mart yesterday??? That was a LOT of BEER!!” And their parents see nothing wrong with the child doing such things and have a running fit if the child is corrected. I am more comfortable avoiding the problem altogether.

Having said that, my own children know that I drink every now and then and even, OMG—read some “trashy” tabloids when I go to the beach. BUT…I don’t buy either in the area where I work.

By Manny

April 17, 2006 08:07 AM | Link to this

Well, my comment to the little darling who would wait for the “right” moment to ask me what I was going to do with the beer would be - “I was going to invite your parents over and discuss your progress in this class!”

By Matt

April 17, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this

I know it’s not on the same level, But I frequently had a beer with some of my senior level college professors. I really think it helped to build a friendship and a certain level of respect in and out of class. I’m not saying that one needs to drink with an instructor to achieve this, any out of class, every-day activity spent with a teacher might be benificial. Eventually, students are going to learn that teachers have a life outside of class. I think that this realization will helps students Identify more with their teachers and help to build a constructive learning environment.

By V for Vendetta

April 17, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this

This is a topic that scares many a young teacher. Why should every other profession (well, maybe not Monks, but is that really a profession?) get to enjoy life as they see fit, while teachers are expected to go home and read a book? Who gives a rat’s posterior if someone sees you with a beer? Who gives a flying fornication if someone sees you having a cigarette. Making good health choices should start in the home, not in the public school. Now if I were to walk around with no underwear on, well, that would be a different story. Then again, who needs to know about it? :-)

By Robin

April 17, 2006 08:37 AM | Link to this

Angie -

You are a teacher? You use such poor grammar. I hope you don’t teach in my child’s school!

By Cole

April 17, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this

As long as you are at work when you’re supposed to be, do what you’re supposed to do, and do a great job, what should it matter what you do during YOUR free time? As long as your not hurting anyone else and do a good job at work it’s no one’s business. The job you choose shouldn’t dictate what you’re allowed to do when you’re off work.

By Cole

April 17, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this

As long as you are at work when you’re supposed to be, do what you’re supposed to do, and do a great job, what should it matter what you do during YOUR free time? As long as your not hurting anyone else and do a good job at work it’s no one’s business. The job you choose shouldn’t dictate what you’re allowed to do when you’re off work.

By flipper

April 17, 2006 08:48 AM | Link to this

We never know the circumstances of another’s life. You don’t know what leads another to make the choices they do, but it seems that many feel more than comfortable passing judgement without that knowledge. I am continually amazed at the readiness of supposed Christians to cast stones while at the same time proclaiming that ethic of love.

So an unmarried pregnant teacher is to lose her job…and what? Go on public assistance? Or do you not care about that side of it as long as you don’t have to deal with your child being uncomfortable with the necessary conflict between your values and the rest of the world? As long as you don’t have to help them do some critical thinking…one of those skills we say we value in our children.

Perhaps it is that disconnect…hypocrisy even?…between the lipservice we give to things like Christianity and our actual beliefs that do more damage to children than anything else.

By Dekalb Educator

April 17, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this

This topic and the responses have been quite interesting to say the least. It became rather personal for me for I am an unwed teacher that is expecting. Everyone has their right to an opinion and I also understand that I do not have to “own” those opinions as my own.

I do find that it is unfair that unwed expecting teachers are met with such disdain. (Not that I owe anyone an explanation…I will give my situation) I am 33 yrs old. Last year, I was a 32 yr old virgin (YES BELIEVE IT) I always wanted to wait until marriage. It did not happen that way. The father of my child is the only man that I have ever been with. Things HAPPEN! As someone stated earlier, you can use the situation to teach others that ..HEY we ARE human and also make mistakes/bad choices..(I DO VIEW MY CHILD AS A BLESSING!) All actions have consequences.

I do not feel that a teacher should be made to quit or even feel pressured to leave the classroom if she is expecting and unmarried. WHO CARES?! Even if I had decided that it was time for me to have a child and chose a way to get that accomplished without marriage..that is still MY decision.

I just felt it to be unfair to seemingly sweep all unwed expecting teachers under the same umbrella. Everyone’s circumstances are not the same and will not always be in agreement with your own moral beliefs.

As long as I am able to perform my classroom duties (or any other teacher) that is what should be the focus. Not if that teacher is fornicating, having a drink, a smoking a cigarette.

If it is that stressful for a parent to have their child around a pregnant teacher…move your child.

By EW

April 17, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this

First and foremost I’m an adult, so the fact of one of my students coming to question me about my personal life is out of the question. It amazes me that parents want to put us on this moral pedestal; however students see this behavior at home. No one is perfect, and yet we are all human. I have a personal life; my children and husband are off limits to parents and students. Unless it affects the welfare of my students, I don’t get into your personal lives so stay out of mine. Many of you all missed the message of church service yesterday.

By meme

April 17, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this

Dekalb Educator, I don’t think it is the fact that you are expecting that bothers people, it is the fact that you are unwed and expecting. Personally, I think you are very brave. I didn’t have children simply because I never married and according to the moral clause I signed, I could have been fired. Things have changed.

By Dan

April 17, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this

Everyone is subject to the consequences of their actions, and almost nobody can separate their work and personal life completely. Certainly teachers and everyone else are free to do as they wish but some jobs bear more social responsibility, we as a society often ask more from members of society who have chosen a profession in which they weild significant influence over others. This includes doctors, policeman, clergy, politicians (although they are quite skilled at spin control) even business executives need to be wary of their public image and of course we have all witnessed how at times even pro athletes and entertainment people are raked over the coals (although theirs is a hugely variable scale) and of course teachers who obviously have a significant influence on the most malleable portion of our society. So teachers should obviously be able to live their life, but they should be ready for some scrutiny and have a broad window of tolerence for it. After all I am quite sure that regarding having a beer at a local restaurant would draw varying degrees of scrutiny. Some would think they shouldn’t have any, others would weigh in that 1,3,or 5 were acceptable. I am not sure where to draw the line but, to say to a parent it is none of their business is untrue as a public servant and a steward of their child it certainly is their business, all parties just need to come to a reasonable compromise

By katya

April 17, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this

Unwed, pregnant teachers should be fired? What about unwed male teachers? There’s a reason that the Ms. title should be used. Whether or not a teacher is pregnant, it’s none of anyone else’s business if she (or he) is married or not. We aren’t able to tell by a man’s name whether he has a husband or not, so why should we be able to tell by a woman’s name? It’s inappropriate to ask a pregnant woman if she’s married, and using titles that reveal that is the same thing.

By Dekalb Educator

April 17, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this

@meme…I understand that is the problem. The fact that I am not married. Not that it really matters to anyone else, I never planned for it to happen this way. NEVER! Last year, I would have never imagined that in 2006, I would become a mother…a single one at that.

Yes, times have changed. My mother was a teacher also. The first thing she asked me (after all the backlash and crying)…”what are you going to do about teaching?” My brother was even upset at the fact that my adminstrators didn’t appear to be “upset”. I was reminded CONSTANTLY how I was raised in a christian home and how could I do this.

No one seemed to understand that I have made peace with GOD about this and that is ALL that matters to me. I am not planning to lead a campaign for the unwed teachers that are expecting. I am not asking that this thing even be condoned. What I would LIKE to see is RESPECT for a person’s privacy. I am sure most of you do not allow your private lives to be up for discussion on your jobs or even with your family….the same goes for teachers.

Some things are just NOT up for discussion. Period. It is what it is.

By meme

April 17, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this

You are right, Dekalb Educator, I have told some of my students (middle school) that what I do outside of school is none of their business.

By flipper

April 17, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

True there are consequences of our actions, but as an educator, but at the same time, it is not your (generic you) job to hand out the consequences.

I used to tell my middle school students that if I saw them out in public, I would ignore them…and they were shocked when I actually did. After putting in 12-14 hour days and giving up one day of my weekend to do my work, that’s enough. Parents and students only intrude on my life if I want them to.

On another note, I have a friend who teaches in Savannah, and I was floored when she relayed the conversation the superintendent had with new teachers. Better not see them out having a beer, smoking a cigarette, or at Wal-Mart in shorts or without make-up. If you were living with someone and didn’t have a marriage certificate, you better get one quickly. And people wonder why there’s a teacher shortage. Good grief.

By Leia

April 17, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

flipper - Wow! I barely wear make-up to work! That is outrageous. There must be some sort of law against what that superintendent is doing. I’m glad I don’t work in Savannah!

By katy

April 17, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

Are you allowed to wear shorts to mow your lawn? Or must you die of heat stroke (it is Savannah!) so your students don’t see that their teacher has LEGS? Are men also required to wear makeup to school and Walmart? Isn’t that discrimination, to force women to wear makeup all the time?

If you can’t live with a roommate without a marriage certificate, teachers should get paid more.

Ok, to be serious, I don’t know how a school district can say that one MUST wear makeup and cannot wear shorts. Dress codes are for work, not your everyday life.

By EW

April 17, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

Any person foolish enough to think that the superintendent of Savannah can legally enforce those expectations deserves to work for him. I’d see him in court any day with my probono ACLU lawyer

By flipper

April 17, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

I found it all to be a bit silly, but then again, I lived and worked in a place with a strong union and per my contract, I could have come to work in a bathing suit and there wouldn’t have been a thing my principal could have done (or said) about it. Lots of things happen here (this area of the country) that I don’t understand, and I know wouldn’t fly in other places.

While I’m sure that the superintendent of her district couldn’t legally enforce those things, but there are all kinds of ways to skirt that issue. Non-renewal of a contract, particularly for newer teachers, is as I understand it, somewhat of a murky thing, and evaluations are subjective.

By Jeff

April 17, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

My opinions on this are prolly known already, but I’ve been gone the past couple of days at interviews.

I’m not perfect. While I try to shield my kids from the worst of it - ancient history stays exactly that - my kids do know that I smoke and drink. My middle school kids priolly will NOT, but neither will I hide it. (Note that there is a difference between flaunting and not hiding, and I try to respect that difference.)

As many other teachers have said: I am human. And I’m a single male. If I want to have ladies over, as long as they are not any of my students’ single mothers it is none of my students’ business.

Moral Codes would be abolished in any field other than education, so why are they still allowed in education?

By Jeff

April 17, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this

That non-renewal thing is actually a convenient ecuse for ANY teacher to be fired…

By Leia

April 17, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

Jeff - “prolly”?

By Jeff

April 17, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

Leia:

English teacher?

By flipper

April 17, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

Good god. It’s the internet. “Prolly” is accepted short-hand for “probably”.

http://www.netlingo.com/right.cfm?term=prolly

This forum doesn’t allow for editing of posts, and with first draft writing, there will be errors (as I’ve noticed in my own and many other’s posts as well). Nice to know that the grammar police are alive and well when they can’t comment on anything else. Good show.

By Jeff

April 17, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

Something else that I’ve noticed about this topic.

The parents that claim teachers don’t need to teach morals are usually the very ones being most critical of a teacher who doesn’t live up to their moral code…

By meme

April 17, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

It took me reading Jeff’s post a couple of times to figure out what the word was suppose to be. This is something that I might hear a 6 year-old say. IMHO and mine only, using shortcuts like that is dumbing down. Isn’t that what we are already being accused of in education.

By Dekalb Educator

April 17, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

@Jeff….I had to come back and agree with you on your last post.

OK…LUNCH TIME! and after that…it’s our CRCT PEP RALLY! yippee

By Jeff

April 17, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Parent and teacher communication (on a variety of levels and going both ways, depending on the issue):

Hey kettle? Yeah? Its pot. YOU’RE BLACK!!!

I’ll admit… even I am guilty of this at times…

By Leia

April 17, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

No Jeff - I’m an English speaker! I had no idea that “prolly” was acceptable. Ugh - it looks so ignorant!

By flipper

April 17, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

for meme…it’s not “dumbing down”. If you take a look around the plethora of message boards out there, you’ll see that it’s rather common place, as are many other terms that are designed to make communication in such environments flow faster. Your discomfort with it doesn’t mean that it’s incorrect or “dumbing down”. (It’s not a term I use, but I that it doesn’t generally fit within my own personal parameters of acceptable use…that’s my issue, though, not the internet’s)

Just because Jeff uses it here, doesn’t mean he uses it in his classroom or in communication with students, colleagues, or parents. To single it out in a post is extremely petty.

By Jeff

April 17, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this

I use a lot of slang in my classroom. Not when I’m referring to the mathematical content - I’m ULTRA precise there - but in the examples and generally talking to kids, I try to speak so they can understand me. I’ve been around the “prim and proper” - one aspect of what I call “ultraprofessional” - types and for the most part I can hang with the best of them in their natural environments. Problem is that kids - even thier kids - don’t understand that environment. So I let the English teachers worry about proper grammar/ overall vocabulary. I worry about learning math. And if words like “prolly” are the only way they will be able to relate to and understand my math, I will use those words in every sentence the rest of my life.

By OldSchool

April 17, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

Well, how about this folks: My future son-in-law is in a rock band that will be doing an East Coast tour starting next week. When they play in our area, you can bet we’ll be there…at a bar. It’s an all ages show and many of my high school students will be there. Hubby and I are well over 21 and will likely have a cold refreshing adult beverage or two.

In fact, not only will we attend the show but the bands Feable Weiner and Cruiserweight will be staying with us before leaving for their next gig.

It’s a Friday night and I have a life of my own outside of school. As long as I do nothing illegal, I will live it my way!

By Good Grief!

April 17, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

Jeff - I’m glad that you’re leaving education! Using slang is inappropriate in any discipline. Proper English should be used in the math classroom too! I’m a math teacher too (high school), and I want my students to know that there’s a time and place for everything, and my classroom is not the place for “slang”. Good luck in your future career plans.

By Jeff

April 17, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

NOT leaving education. Mreto ATL, more than likely (though one metro county just called me for an interview). Will more than likely be somewhere in south GA next year, can’t WAIT to get out of ATL and all the hyper/hypo-criticals….

By meme

April 17, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

Sorry Flipper, it is still dumbing down as far as I am concerned. I am a trained English teacher that is my opinion. That “everybody else is doing it” statement doesn’t cut it with me. If you young people want to speak in shortcuts that is fine but like I tell my 8th graders, I don’t speak teenage, I speak standard English.

By meme

April 17, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

And before anyone else says anything, yes, I see the typeo.

By Kage

April 17, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

Hate to get back on topic, but I have a question. Patti, perhaps you can help answer it.

Was the article about the CRCT scores in effect for this year? I know it said 2006, but I’m just a little shocked that they might change the scoring system when the scores are due to us next month. I’ve told all parents that the kids have to make 300 in reading. Am I wrong now? Will it be 800? And if so, why is this information not being communicated to our school by the state? Makes us look woefully uninformed - which I suppose is accurate considering the circumstances.

By Patti Ghezzi

April 17, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

Kage, what subject do you teach? If you teach reading/LA, the passing score will probably be 800. (The testing folks tell me they will use some of the results in the statistical process so they can’t say for sure the passing score will be 800, but that’s what they want it to be.) For the other subjects, the passing score will remain 300, with the exception of some middle school math and science.

I have been trying to get a handle on how standardized tests are graded for many years. I still don’t fully understand it, but believe me it’s not for lack of trying.

Your testing people are aware of this change and should have sent the word to your school…

Patti

By Kage

April 17, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the answer, Patti. I teach third grade, so the Reading scores will apply. If our testing people know, they didn’t communicate it to us. This is frustrating. When dealing with the automatic retention of an eight year old, I’d like to sound as informed as possible. Again, thanks for the response.

By Reader

April 17, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

I value most of the comments posted here (hey, I have to be honest), but seeing “prolly” in print just makes my skin crawl. All we have to go on is what the writer types, so we have to assume he/she uses “prolly” in real life, also, along with such words as “lusually” and “supposably.” There are typos, there are quick fingers, and then there’s just carelessness with language. Shouldn’t someone who dresses in professional attire take that same care with appearance and detail into his written word?

By flipper

April 17, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

meme…I’m a trained English teacher, too (middle school as well), working on a PhD in Comp/Rhet, very involved in my local NWP site. And? So?

Surely you know that one of the first things that should be taught when it comes to writing instruction is audience and purpose. I believe that’s something like #4 in the NCTE/IRA standards. The online environment is a very different place than the classroom. Do you not have conversations with your students about code-switching and how they speak and write differently in different situations? That their conversations with their friends are not the same as the conversations they have with their parents or teachers? Do you yourself not speak or write in different ways depending on your purpose? Never ever say y’all or folks or other idioms and colloquialisms?

Your discomfort with the informality of online communication is your issue to own, but to treat it as some sort of demarcation line with regard to intelligence is, as I said earlier, petty, particularly when you seem to have no understanding of the culture of online communication.

By meme

April 18, 2006 08:11 AM | Link to this

Flipper, I am so sorry! I did not realize that I was dealing with someone who knew everything. I don’t know everything and so I guess I should drop this conversation.

By spoiled

April 18, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this

We will prolly have skeddie for supper tonight.

By Karen Armsby

April 18, 2006 08:25 AM | Link to this

meme, I don’t think think Flipper is from around here!

Flipper, Why don’t you just answer the question instead of scolding the bloggers? Is that one of your teaching methods? Here’s a hint; you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

By V for Vendetta

April 18, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

Wow, sad to see such a good blg topic deteriorate into petty grammar discussions. Sigh.

It’d prolly be better if we stuck to the topic and didn’t use incomplete sentences (And? So?). JUST KIDDING.

LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE!!!!!!

By OldSchool

April 18, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

Jeff, our South Georgia high school is seeking a good math teacher. It’s a pretty good place to teach- close knit faculty, supportive administration, not too many complaints here.

By Jeff

April 18, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

Oldschool,

Shoot me an email: ajc_jeff@yahoo.com

(For those who don’t know, that acount was created specifically so I could give it out on AJC blogs without revealing my indentity on the blogs. I welcome any private comments there.)

By luvs2teach

April 18, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

This topic made me laugh - I have a running joke with my kids about our janitor locking me up in the closet at night and letting me out in the morning for class, LOL.

Middle school kids are so out of their minds (and that’s why I love them) that it really helps for them to see you as a person. I share some details (married, kids, jobs I’ve had before), and keep others to myself. They like hearing about my personal kids because they are just a little older than my students.

It’s a fine line between “friend” and “friendly” - I’m pretty clear about where that line is with my students.

By Lee

April 19, 2006 08:33 AM | Link to this

I have heard over and over that teachers are professionals and want to be treated accordingly. Okay. You are in a public sector job and like it or not, you are often judged not only by your actions on the job, but in your private life as well.

Really, its all a matter of perception. As we all know, perception becomes reality for a lot of people.

For example, a high school student sees teacher in restaurant drinking a glass of wine with her meal, and its no big deal. A first grader who has been taught that drinking is wrong sees the teacher in the restaurant drinking a glass of wine with her meal will have a different perception.

As a parent, do you want a drunk, a dope addict, a person with low moral standards, etc. teaching your child? I don’t.

As a teacher, you have to be aware of these things and act accordingly.

By luvs2teach

April 19, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this

Lee - a glass of wine in a restaurant does not make you a drunk. I’m sorry if that goes against someone else’s morals, but it doesn’t go against mine, nor is it illegal. I’m not hanging out in bars getting drunk in front of my students - there is a difference.

By Lee

April 19, 2006 09:02 AM | Link to this

Luvs - read my post again. Two different paragraphs, two different points I was trying to make. Perhaps I didn’t say it very well….

By luvs2teach

April 19, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this

Lee - I read the 4th paragraph as a blanket judgment - hard to tell without tone - I get what you were trying to say now :-)

By Amber

April 20, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Ya’ll have been primarily discussing drinkin’ and smokin’ as potential suspect behavior in a teacher’s life. I’d like to add one more element to the mix. What about a teacher’s sexual orientation? The “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy isn’t just for the military. Many heterosexual teachers have pictures of their spouses on their desks, and speak of their spouses occasionally in class. What if a homosexual teacher were to do the same with their partners? Should homosexual teachers remain silent when it is perfectly passable for heterosexual teachers to be out of the closet?