Get Schooled

By V for Vendetta

April 12, 2006 08:18 AM | Link to this

Let me start by saying I saw the show.

That having been said, the theme shouldn’t have been CRISIS CRISIS CRISIS, the theme should have been PARENTS PARENTS PARENTS. In the segment where Lisa Ling interviewed all the “middle class” white kids, none of the kids who dropped out said anything about their parents encouraging them to stay in school beyond a “it’s probably best” or a “life will be tough”. One girl interviewed who was still IN school said something along the lines of “my mom would KILL me if I dropped out of school”. Interesting.

As for the school in Washington DC that was run down and barely passable as a building… newsflash, unfortunately there ARE places like that around the country, and yes Patti, we have known this for quite some time. I think Oprah’s look of shock is due more to the fact that she cant believe how dumb people must be to keep eating up all the biased and racist info she feeds them on a daily basis. When Oprah teamed up with Lisa Ling and Anderson Cooper to report on the number of Americans living below the poverty line, all we saw was a story about a bunch of baby-factory ignorant white people who looked like extras from The Dukes of Hazzard. I’m not trying to start a race war or something here, I’m just trying to point out that Oprah is about as slanted and biased as you can get.

I agree there is a problem with kids dropping out and the general state of education, but education and kids attitudes toward education starts at home, not in the school. My parents had high expectations for me to live up to. When you are pushed and challenged to get A’s, you never even THINK about dropping out. Maybe if less kids were happy being apathetic towards school (and life in general), and parents actually attempted to EDUCATE them on how difficult life would be without a decent education, this would not even be a problem worth talking about.

By just one

April 12, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

Amen, V! Oprah and Bill Gates can throw money at the problem forever and until our nation recognizes parenting is the problem things will not change. Kids need parents! Parents that love, discipline and set expectations for their children. Parents also need to instill a work ethic in their children. I attended school everyday because my parents said so. I received a college prep diploma because my parents said so. I went to college because my parents set forth that expectation when I was born. I have heard several parents say, I just let my child choose their diploma track. Children don’t need to make those types of choices. Parents are responsible for ensuring their children get a proper education. Schools are failing children, parents are! Wake up people! I have first hand experience with one of the initiatives that Mr. Gates is funding. The money is not benefiting students. It is paying for school administrators to go on nice vacations (seminars) to places within the U.S. The initiative is requiring teachers to waste time focusing on meeting the requirements of the initiative instead of focusing on students. Students in my community can miss 20 or more days in a year and still move on to the next grade. We don’t want kids to drop out so we let them miss lots of days and still encourage them to come back to school. Teachers must work overtime so that the chronically absent might make up his or her work. Kids drop out or miss lots of school because parents allow it. Schools are not the problem. Throw your money at parenting education!

By Broadway

April 12, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

Nice V..accuse O of being slanted and bias, and gawk at the fact that black people weren’t shown in her reports as the poverty-stricken too. There are plenty of other outlets that showcase AA. White people are poor too. Deal with it

By Eve

April 12, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

Schools are the problem. “Bad Kids, bad kids, bad kids……good teachers, good teachers, good teachers…….give me a break! It is a lot of lazy, YOUNG, teachers in public schools now…..they are what I call “paycheck teachers”….and that’s their sole purpose….

By Chandler

April 12, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this

Let me get this straight. Oprah takes the time to bring to light the fact that American schools are an embarrassment and you take the time to write about how she did it? This is the disgustingly typical response that is ensuring nothing of significant gets done in America anymore. The stats Oprah gave are facts. The testimonials of the students can be found in every town and city in the US. I can’t understand why we do this. If someone is screaming Fire instead of us listening and reacting to it, we rather debate the way they said FIRE. It seems to me you don’t care for Oprah for what ever reason but I hope you come to realize that regardless if you like her or not, a fire is raging in the educational system in the US. Instead of focusing on who screamed fire or how they said it…How about grabbing an extinguisher.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 12, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

No matter what you guys say, there is a serious crisis in education and it is along racial and poverty lines. I don’t need Oprah to point out, what I see first hand.

Yes, you can blame parents. However, you can blame teachers/administrators and politicians, as well.

Teachers who have advance degrees do not go into communities to teach, where the kids have other problems outside of school. Many teachers and administrators can’t deal with social issues that plague minority communities.

A child who makes all A’s in a school where minorities make up the Majority, go to college and struggle – because they were not truly prepared by their teachers. Yes, the teacher gave Mariah an “A”, because she does excellent work – but the standards are lower in her community. She was improperly educated, because the teacher did not cover all the material that students in more educated communities were expected to complete.

I hear it all the time from students who were at the top of their class, in their local schools. Things such as (1.) We never covered that in English, History or Math (2.) My school did not offer that course. (3.) We did not have the material to conduct any experiments in my science lab. (4.) My teacher just told us to read the book, but we never discussed what we read.

I can go on and on.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 12, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

Thank Chandler,

You made some excellent points. Everyone wants to put on blinders.

And Eve, is correct, many are there just for a paycheck and longer holidays. Not everyone, but there are a lot of them. I graduated with a couple of students, who chose education for that very reason.

But, I will admit choosing my profession because it paid well and was in high demand.

By Patti Ghezzi

April 12, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this

I like Oprah. She put books in the hands of thousands, maybe millions, of people. Her current push to help Americans climb out of debt … I love her for it. That she’s now taking up the cause of education … I don’t see how this could possibly be a bad thing.

My notes are in real time as I was watching the show for the purposes of getting a discussion going. I’m not clear on what you find disgusting…

By Jackie

April 12, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

I saw the show as well and agree that there is and always has been a huge gap in funding for schools especially when they are in urban or suburban areas. You would have to be blind to NOT see it.Oprah did a small part by bringing to it light,now WE are the ones who have to try to close the gap. The responsibility falls on us as a whole. It’s the entire system: the students, the parents, the teachers, the community, and our political figures. If more emphasis was placed on education and and we stopped putting a price tag on the value of educating our children, we would not be ranking as low as we are. America is to blame for focusing too much other issues and not enough on Education. But, it’s not too late. We can urge our congressmen and legislators to push for more money for funding education. Then, parents have to step up and get involved in the schools to help motivate their children so they’ll want to learn and see the benefits of getting a good education. Teachers can do more only if they have students who are eager to learn.

By Lynne

April 12, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

Its the parents who have failed. Well, I take that back. There aren’t a whole lot of children who have parents that actually parent anymore.

By Leia

April 12, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

Perhaps Oprah, in her infinite wisdom, focused on poor, White students because she realizes that more people would be outraged than if they saw poor, Black students! The truth is - people were shocked because it was hard for them to believe that the educational downfall in the country is not just a minority problem. Wake up, people!

By T

April 12, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

Schools are a mess and the problem is not a new one.

Parents, teachers, administrators and students have all contributed to the problem. Race and economics certainly have played a part too.

I went to high school over twenty years ago I was encouraged by my parents and teachers to take a heavy workload. This included spanish, french and latin, 4 years of math including calculus, 4 years of english, 4 years of history etc, 3 years of science and extracurriculars.

My peers on the other took jobs during their junior and senior years of high school. Because they had “met the requirements” for graduation, they were allowed early dismissal days to go to work. When they got to college, they had to take remedial courses because they were not prepared. Many of these individuals never finish their college education because they are never able to catch up.

I talk to young people often and the same thing is happening today.

There needs to be more dialogue about what constitutes a quality education. The standards need to be raised.

School counselors need to give better guidance to students wishing to go on to college.

Parents need to be honest with their children about the difficulties of making it in life without a quality education.

Teachers need to expect more from their students and make learning interesting and captivating. Teaching should be a vocation not just a paycheck.

By hs

April 12, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this

Standards have been lowered for a lot of schools. Why? Self-esteem, of course. Can’t have anyone thinking that they’re not up to par. Their little feelings might get hurt. Where is this mostly done? Low income areas. It’s ridiculous. If the parents don’t think much of an education and make it the number one priority, then the kids don’t. We can only do so much at school. Believe it, or not, many teachers DO try to teach up high and hope it will trickle down. It doesn’t. We need to go back to tracking, so that the kids that want to learn will have a chance.

By Dan

April 12, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

Whether or not Oprah put books in millions of hands is certainly debatable. She is an opportunist, perhaps well intentioned but woefully sheltered from reality. However the real irony here is even if you believe Oprah put books in the hands of millions if our education system was working better, those people all would have been reading instead of watching her show to start with. And lets not forget her audience demographic was probably in school 30-50 years ago. So it wasn’t working particularly well then either. It is what you choose to make of it

By SET

April 12, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

Here we go again.

Money has little to do with educating at the primary and secondary school level. You can get a school Marm in a one room shack with a pot bellied stove with few books and produce what we are producing in public schools with a huge dollar a year per child spending.

What determines educational success is largely genetics (influenced by pre-natal and early childhood nutrition) followed by serious discipline on the part of the school.

The taxpayers will refuse to spend more money on the public schools because they know what they are paying on the private schools and it’s clearly wrong to pour more than that on the public schools.

It appears that for the moment Oprah (bless her) wants to help and thinks that money (which she has in abundance) will solve any problem. Money will actually make the problem worse. The public schools will get drunk off the money and continue to refuse to change. Then their new buildings and equipment will be trashed and the kids still graduate stupid.

NCLB is not what it says it is. Any educated and intelligent person knows that not all children can be “educated” and that only a certain percentage are fit for college. NCLB lies when it claims otherwise. These lies were written to get the legislation passed for a tremendous data collection and publication on the performance of all schools and ethnic groups. It also is forcing the public schools to concentrate on data massaging.

With NCLB stats it won’t be much longer before even the clueless realizes what “The Bell Curve” published over a decade ago about ethnic IQ distribution. But all this will come too late to save the American Left Side of the Bell Curve whose jobs and livelihoods will have been permanantly destroyed by the US Gov’t open borders policy (Both in flow of people and merchandise).

I wish Oprah would spend money and attention to ewstablishing trade schools for US Nationals so we can get young blue collar workers into the petrochemical industry - which is turning to immigrant labor. And to get job training up for American HS Graduates for any 40k a year and up career. We need these programs to be expanded. The public schools have plenty of money the just waste it with students who don’t belong in an academic program in the first place.

If little Tyrone and Likeshia are cursing out the teachers in US History and Math (largely because they are frustrated and can’t handle the subjects) they should be transferred to Auto Mechanics, Welding and Building Trades, etc. post-haste. Oh, but then there are no seats in these programs… All the Money goes to the Academic Programs.

By KB

April 12, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

COMPETITION ! COMPETITION ! COMPETITION ! This is the only thing that will ever have any chance of improving our schools! There are far, far too many people in powerful positions who benefit from keeping things just the way they are.

By KB

April 12, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

COMPETITION ! COMPETITION ! COMPETITION ! This is the only thing that will ever have any chance of improving our schools! There are far, far too many people in powerful positions who benefit from keeping things just the way they are.

By kb

April 12, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

COMPETITION ! COMPETITION ! COMPETITION ! This is the only thing that will ever have any chance of improving our schools! There are far, far too many people in powerful positions who benefit from keeping things just the way they are.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 12, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

I don’t think many of you know about Oprah’s childhood and teenage years. Her parents were divorced; she lived primarily with her mother and in between both parents at one point in her life. She even ran away from home, I believe at some point. She became pregnant as a teenager, but lost the child. She got her life together and went on to finish high school and college.

The information I provided was shown in a documentary, where Oprah’s father was interviewed.

Those kids that people condemn and think less of are the same children that are living Oprah’s childhood.

By another teacher

April 12, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

Interesting topic… did you see the article in TIME this week? It was about our nation’s incredible dropout rate. According to it, most students do not drop out because they can’t handle the work, they drop out because they’re bored and not challenged.

I’d like to add some things to the discussion: Amazed - you are correct that the best teachers do not want to teach in “high needs” schools. I teach in one right now, and can tell you that I and others are just looking for the door. There are many reasons why. I feel a LOT of pressure to pass students who haven’t earned a passing grade. I would lose more sleep over that than a 50% failure rate. Also, due to our not meeting AYP, we are inundated with additional work. More meetings, more little “projects,” more CYA, etc. The paltry “combat pay” that they give us every 3 years is not enough to make it worthwhile. Add that to the ridiculous behavior of many of these students and it’s no wonder we all go home and hit the Excedrin.

To quote another blogger today, “Teachers can do more only if they have students who are eager to learn.”

Whew…..

By Fed Up

April 12, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

SET, you are exactly right. The quickest way to fix education is to track (yes track.. that horrid word) students so that they are prepared to do work that they can handle. That way the college-material kids can learn what they need to without constant disruption and the kids that don’t need to be in college prep can learn to make a living instead of being frustrated and disrupting class.

We need more votech… a kid with a low or average IQ can’t make a penny with a bunch of advanced algebra and calc… they need to learn vocational skills so they can do work that will actually suppor them instead of working at McDonalds for the rest of their lives. There is no shame in trade work. My brother-in-law is an electrician and makes more than seveal lawyers that I know.

By Rob D

April 12, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

For this to be a highly yeligious country, the teaching of Love Thy Neighboor has been thrown out the door. Its not my problem its your problem is the attitude of most Americans today. For there to be so much so called patriotism for Amercia, when it comes to helping out the underpriviliged and deprived Americans, there is a sense of arrogance and selfishiness. You support helping and freeing Iraqis from opression but yet you will allow our kids to suffer and fall behind to the competing nations. Children are learning more when they get home on the computer and search the internet than they do in 8 hours at school. Get back to your faith and discover what it means to be a patriot and help thy neighboor.

By hs sped

April 12, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

The Bell Curve….yes, everyone should read it and also a book titled Rereading America. It’s very interesting as well. Something has to change.

By kim

April 12, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

What about homeschooling - if you are able? Every study compiled suggests that this is a superior form of educating a child, ensuring that they don’t get behind or skip over topics they don’t understand. Socialization is not a problem today with so may huge support groups. Conversely, the socialization received in public schools today is frightening!

There are too many parents who have the ability to improve their own child’s education/destiny but since they do not want that endeavor to interfere with nail appointments and tennis matches, they continue to complain that it’s somebody else’s fault/problem. With that attitude, the child will continue to lose!

By Beverly

April 12, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

SET and Fed Up: I think tracking isn’t a guarantee of success. Many students are mediocre in high school and excell in college. I was a bored high school student, and consistently made the dean’s list in college. Not sure why, but college was more interesting and challenging. I guess I rose to the challenge. My high school counselor tried to track me a dental assisting track that would have provided a job after high school. I hated dental assisting and I’m glad I didn’t listen to her or my parents. Another point: today’s kids are lazy! My daughter is a 5th grader at a magnet school and her classmates are little geniuses who spend most of their energy trying to find ways to get out of doing their work. The teachers agree this generation of kids is pampered, spoiled, lazy and whiny. Keeping my foot up her behind when it comes to her school work has become another full-time job.

By JR

April 12, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

I did not read through all the posts but my thoughts on education are that there is no one problem or one solution to the state of education in America. I am working on my Masters and hope to go into education policy so this subject is dear to me. I did not watch Oprah’s show (I work) but my mother did and was shocked at how bad the system is. The problems that I associate with education 1) there are schools that are physically not in shape for students to be productive 2) there is not a concensus among Americans on what the role of public schools should be. What do we expect them to teach these kids, critical thinking, skills or how to master standardized tests. 3) the system is not set up to enforce stringent requirements on teachers and school personnel. and 4) I do think that financially we are yet to get it right. Do we spend money on schools to bring them up to par, to we spend money on schools to allow them to keep non-academic programs (p.e, music, etc). and another concern, should education spending be equal across school districts. The problem with debates on education is that we try to find one problem and diminish the impact and the effect of other problems, with that America will continue to produce dummies. Also we cannont simply blame, either the parents or the teachers or whatever, everybody in education is responsible, the community at large is responsible. We also need to take all that crap off of television and get children/students to see the multitude of options that are available to them outside of pop culture.

By hs sped

April 12, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

Homeschooling is great, if you don’t need a paycheck and you have a degree in what you’re teaching. Is it safe to assume that most homeschool parents have the necessary degrees to teach at home? What are the standards for a homeschool teacher? Are there any? How are these kids receiving a superior form of education if the educatator is not educated him/herself?

By OldSchool

April 12, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this

C’mon kids! There is certainly enough blame to go around. Everyone should be held accountable: students, teachers, administrators, parents, communities, governments…

Enough of the blame game, can we work to find ways that make sense and that will create positive change? This makes 32 years teaching in Georgia’s public high schools for me and believe me, history repeats itself. I’ve been InTeched, Learner Focused, Successed, Individualized Place Packeted, Harry Wong-ed, you name it. Just when I hit my stride in implementing the Technique du Jour, somebody comes up with a “better way” and here we go again. I’m beginning to think that if these innovative teaching techniques were so great, their developers would still be teaching and not out peddling their programs.

Just as students have different learning styles, teachers have different teaching styles. A shotgun approach to fixing what is wrong is just…well…wrong. Give us a tool box and trust us to use the correct tools for both us and our students.

Maybe it isn’t the entire school that is in need of changing but just parts. I’m sure everyone knows where the weaknesses are in nearly every school.

Just one last thing: I get paid for 190 days and my pay is divided out over 12 months. I DO NOT get paid for Fall/Spring Break, Christmas, Thanksgiving, or any other holiday. I do have to complete 10 credits to renew my certification every 5 years and I was required to take and pass the NOCTI for drafting (which I did easily in the old TCT days.) I have my Masters and am also an ADDA Certified Mechanical Drafter. I have extensive experience in Plant Engineering and Residential Design. I continue to teach because there are those students who love Engineering Drawing and Residential Design as much as I do. I’m not here for the money…which is actually pretty good in my own personal opinion.

By high school teacher

April 12, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

Eve,

The teachers who are just collecting a paycheck aren’t the “YOUNG” teachers; they are those who have invested too much of a career in education to change to another profession. The young, new teachers don’t last long if they are just waiting for a check at the end of the month; they just move on to another job.

Two years ago, my then school system sent me(along with other delegates from my school) to a workshop to listen to a principal from some successful school out west. He basically said that if teachers don’t “buy in” to the philosophy that all students can learn the same information, then they shouldn’t be teachers. Well, I guess I am in the wrong profession. I can’t honestly say that every student who comes into my classroom has the same capacity to learn the same material.

Amazed, I see your points and don’t blame just parents. However, I am at my wit’s end. My students had a research paper due on Monday - the one we have worked on IN class and out of class - and 9 kids (out of 21) in my first period turned a paper in. How can I fix that? How can I get my students to change the attitude of “I’ll just make this up in summer school because it’s easier anyway?” How can teachers deal with the social issues that plague minority communities, and still have a high expectation? What are we as teachers supposed to do?

I teach in a middle class school - about a 40% free/reduced lunch population. I don’t assign a lot of homework because I know that these kids truly have jobs to support their families. I have many 16 year-old-girls who are already mothers, and a few who will be within the next 6 months. What can I do to be understanding of the fact that they have other obligations than school, and still hold them to high expectations?

By Eve

April 12, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Please help me to understand…..”Another Teacher”, basically said that with all of the overwhelming work that is required now, PLUS, the bad behavior of some children, have some looking for the door! Okay…you already have a teacher that is disgusted with her job now because of a lot of reasons…..don’t you think that children will pick up on that vibe in the classroom? If YOU don’t even want to be there, what makes you think that they want to when they see the frustration on the faces of teachers?

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 12, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

GET REAL People - the majority are not being taught college material. The majority is NOT being taught BASIC Reading, Writing or Math Skills.

STOP telling the Lie, that you are asked to teach every child College Prep Material. The kids we are concerned with - can’t read, write or perform basic math operations. They can’t spell or use basic english. They can’t write a complete sentence.

Yes, a mechanic should know how to read above 6th grade, calculate the fees for his/her services provided and understand which chemicals are combustibles. They may not need Chemistry or Calculus, but they do NEED a great education. If not, they will be taken advantage of by: Banks, Mortgage Companies, Lawyers, etc.

People who lack basic skills are usually the first to be taken advantage of by entities such as Banks, with high interest rates. They are the primary candidates for forclosures and they usually; can’t afford a good lawyer.

By Candy

April 12, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

SET - if there were a curve for intellectual honesty, awareness and wisdom -you and Arthur Jensen would certainly be on the lowest end. It takes very simple-minded thinking to attribute intelligence and potential to a test that is so variable – we all know that you can actually decrease your IQ scores simply by taking it with your eyes closed. In my profession as an adoption worker, I have also seen many examples of children who were labeled as mentally retarded at age 5 test in the gifted range by age 8 – simply because they received one on one attention, confidence, their stress levels were lowered and above all- they learned that they have value and worth as a human being. They are the same genetic strain as their parents but because their life opportunities were dramatically improved at an early age – the outcome is different.

So, SET, how can you possibly study one psychological variable – IQ – without controlling for the myriad of other psychological variables – motivation, stress, fear, boredom, distraction? Not to mention physiological, sociological and other variables that are not controlled for in these so call “studies”. Jensen thought he was doing something by controlling for income – that is just laughable! There simply never has been a time in U.S. history where variables were even – so before you start talking about proof of ethnic IQ differences – perhaps you need to go back to rudimentary science: control for independent and dependent variables. You simply cannot due that in America’s Salad Bowl.

I hope that Oprah’s show highlights the fact that either consciously or unconsciously, we place different values on human lives from the time they are born. The value we on human lives become evident in the way we distribute resources. When we expect people to be worth less than others – it seems natural to us that they would have the worst schools, books, housing, stores, services (whether they are poor immigrants, urban black kids or ‘poor white trash). In the end, we all lose out on great minds and their potential contributions to our country because we fail to fully develop our most valuable resources: humans. If America does not develop its potential (which it is not)– other countries will (and are). Where will we be in 50 years?

By MPM

April 12, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

How to fix the problems with education? There is no one correct answer…certainly, our country is on a non-stop downward trend unless something changes quickly.

I became a teacher because I want to help students live better lives; I want them to be educated instead of ignorant, compassionate instead of selfish, and wordly instead of sheltered, but now, more than ever, that seems impossible.

Most of my students (low-middle to lower class) live with one parent or guardian. Increasingly more common are students who rotate from family member to family member, staygint with whoever will keep them until they have “overstayed” their welcome. Many don’t know who their fathers are or have never met them. I focus on this becuase they feel unloved and unworthy, but not uncommon.

Likewise, they have no pressure to do well. No 12-18 year old will make the right decision for their future; They need guidance, but who is there to provide it?

In addition, we live in a culture where we glorify the silly and inane, the thuggish, the super-rich who get there with little to no work; where is the motivation? My students plan on making it rich as a rapper or baller or model despite no discernable talent becuase no one at home is there to tell them that it’s not going to happen. We have taken the dignity out of working class jobs, forcing everyone to think that they must go to college, regarless of whether or not they want to. Maybe a little real-world experience is more inportant than a straight-to-college path.

Everyone has a part to play…teachers, parents, students, administrators, but we all want to shift blame. I have lazy days or bad days, but those are few, and most days I am working hard for my students; However, it is not enough nor will it ever be enough to make up for the years of neglect and inconsideration they have had. It’s no secret that the kids who ultimatly are successful come from strong parental backgrounds, but we want to keep saying it’s okay to allow divorce and sham marriages in Vegas at 2 a.m. and single parents when it clearly is not.

Our education system is outdated and inefficent. We need to look to other countries and other ideas and change.

A metaphor: right now our education system is like an old horse…overworked, tired, bedraggled, and past it’s prime, but instead of getting a new horse, or investing in a modern, re-tooled machine to get the job done, we want to cut the horse’s hair and paint it’s nails and tie a bow in it’s hair and act like now the horse is new again and ready to work like new; that’s not gonna happen- the horse is dead; get a new one,just like our education system is dead and we need a new one, one that works for this new type of student.

By posterchild

April 12, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

A few things:

White/black schools and expectations: Having spent most of my school career in minority schools, then switching to a pretty much all-white school (middle of 8th grade), I can tell you first-hand there are major differences. I wouldn’t even say it was the teachers that were different. The teachers were caring and tried their best in both places. The main difference was the students (and their parents/guardians). At my old school, kids took joy in throwing scissors at the teacher, stealing ice cream from the cafeteria, just being general miscreants. Once I switched schools, I was almost in shock over how well-behaved the kids were; how clean the school stayed; students were trusted to walk to and from lunch without having to march in a line with the teacher. This was in 1994, mind you, so we’re not even talking ancient history. In my 5 years of teaching, I have taught in all-black schools. There are days when I feel like I am helping, and there are days where I feel like I’m watching a trainwreck. I come from a long line of poor white and Native drop-outs. I am the first person to get a college degree in the history of my family (and I am working on a 3rd right now). My family was supportive, but I got here because of my own drive and not wanting to fail. I wonder sometimes if a lot of kids I see at school and on the news have this sort of internal drive. Maybe some don’t.

That being said, I wish Oprah would have highlighted some Reservation schools, as that’s where my most of my family had their school experience, and I come from a long line of drop-outs.

Homeschooling: If homeschooling works for you, great, but I think that many people in America are not willing to sacrifice a 2-income household to educate their children.

Sorry for the rambling, but I have mixed feelings about this whole Oprah thing :)

By E. Lewis

April 12, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this

Too many of those who are in the position to do something don’t because they can and do send their children to private schools. They don’t want to put in more effort or $$ especially when they feel they are paying twice and don’t want to fund or improve the schools their children don’t attend.

BTW I have no children and support public education because I feel it is my civic duty to do so. A well educated society is a better and safer one.

By posterchild

April 12, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

hs sped:

That’s my beef with homeschooling… who’s to say that the people doing the schooling are qualified?

I have cousins who homeschool their middle and elementary school-aged children, and these cousins dropped out of high school at age 16 and 17. How are they supposed to teach their kids algebra, chemistry, etc. when it obviously was either too rough or just not important to them?

By MrLiberty

April 12, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

Government run education will never be a success. Central planning does not work, has never worked, and will never work. Oprah and every other person who supports government education on principle consistently looks for the big “master plan” to fix the problem. The “master plan” is the problem - not the solution. Government must immediately stop pretending to educate children.

Government education has no real value to the consumers. Parents pay virtually nothing compared to the actual cost of educating their kids, and so they just don’t REALLY care how bad the schools are. They see school as a cheaper version of the expensive daycare they had to deal with since the child was born. They don’t concern themselves with the fact that thousands and millions of dollars are being stolen from everyone else to help pay for their kids education, but they certainly expect everyone else to pony up more to “solve” the problem they helped create.

Bill Gates was right - if government education were a business it would already have gone bankrupt. You don’t give more money to a bankrupt business, you shut it down. This business would have gone bankrupt because if it were a business, folks would have already taken their money and walked. Can’t do that with schools that steal your money and give you no choice. So what is wrong with the business model? Bad school, find a better one, take your money with you. Sounds like the reason Kroger and Publix don’t look like those schools and give great service.

The one-room school house that was supported directly by the small local community was the last “public” school that worked. Direct involvement of parents and immediate control over failures were what made it work. Every subdivision could be the same, but parents just don’t care about their children. How else could you explain they way they ship them off to the government to indoctrinate for 12 years? Also, they are too addicted to the spoils that are stolen from fellow citizens to pay for their children. It would really suck to have to take care of their own children for a change.

Much easier to keep stealing and just put up with the problem This way they can blame the government anyway.

By Sandra

April 12, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

My daughter is a teacher. She teaches computer classes in middle school. Because of inclusion, students that do not have the ability to understand are put into her class (to give the special ed teachers a break during the day) She says she spends most of her time taking care of those students. They talk and act up all during class. This takes the time away from the regular students that she could helping.

By Candy

April 12, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

Two more things about tracking- if someone had seen me in the 4th grade - they would assume I could never be college material. I was failing everything because the school environment was demotivating and I was highly distracted by other issues in my personal life. I was a poor inner city black kid failing everything! Imagine that. However, once I was removed from that failing school system and entered a rich learning environment, free from other distraction, I began to excel. Next thing you know, I’m breezing through college in 3 years and now I have a master’s degree. It would not have helped me to be tracked at a young age at all - I surely would have dropped out because of boredom. And think of all the wasted potential.

Secondly, I think our education system is partially a reflection of a cultural problem. Somewhere along the lines of our economic growth - we lost sight of the mentallity of innovation, hard work, industry, and work ethic that got us where we are. In short, we are spoiled. I think that it’s human nature to take our wealth and success for granted - look at the children of self-made rich people. Do they have as much drive and ambition as their parents?

We need to change our mentality - praise children and adults who work hard - don’t ridicule them and label them nerds, geeks. America as a whole needs a cultural shift towards a rational and intellectual landscape.

By A researcher in the industry

April 12, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

What some of us bloggers have to recognize is the fact that no matter if all of the those students stay in school and work hard that will not change the disparities in funding. Those kids were in classrooms-as far as we know they ARE staying in school. You cannot speculate that their parents are not sending them each day. But you CAN see that some schools have college level educations and some don’t. It is quite clear that some students have state funded instruments and some don’t. That says nothing about parents and everything about how states allocate funds to schools.

Sure parents are the ones to ensure their children are in classrooms and ready to learn, but, some point, the schools have to actually do the teaching. And it’s pretty hard to do so when the teachers are poorly supported, the facilities are dilapidated and the books are outdated.

By MrLiberty

April 12, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

I am seeing a lot of comments about “valuing” kids, etc. as being measured by dollars and cents, etc. Listen, they are your children. If you don’t value them enough to make sure they get a good education, why should I? I didn’t choose to have them. This starts by being willing to pay for their real costs. $1500 worth of school taxes paid per year when the government school is wasting $6500 per child means that $5000 must be stolen from someone else. Add another $6500 for each child and suddenly we have $11,500 worth of theft for every family with 2 kids. If you weren’t government school educated, you should be able to do the math from there.

That $5000 to $6500 per kid must be paid somehow. Businesses and corporations pass those costs onto consumers meaning everything the rest of us buy costs even more because of YOUR kids. For every bit that comes from income, sales, etc. taxes this means even more from the rest of us.

Parents who care enough to send their kids to a private school or homeschool them must not only pay this stolen money, but the costs for their own kids. How is this not completely immoral? Giving up that second job to stay home and homeschool is made even more difficult because of these additional costs that you immoral parent impose to pay for your kid’s education.

Face it, the answer is clear. Everyone pays their own way. You have as many kids as YOU can afford. You hold the schools accountable by leaving with your money, and everything works out like everything else in our free market society - with the customer coming first.

And statistically speaking, teachers as a group score the lowest on standardized tests and GPA’s of any profession group. Remember, the government is saying that teachers are “qualified”. Wow, there’s an endorcement.

By kim

April 12, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

I’ve heard arguments about homeschooling indicating that people might be suspicious of what is taught/not taught. Or, whether parents have the expertise. Remember, study after study after study indicates that these children far surpass public and even privately schooled children on all standardized tests! These tests include all of the subjects you wonder whether parents can teach. The bottom line ? They are doing it and doing a bang-up superior job any way you cut it.

If you have questions, why don’t you look at some of the private school curriculums that are sold to homeschoolers, including very detailed lesson plans and every textbook/exercise and activity taught in the classroom?

The reality is - you just can’t [successfully] argue with success!

By E. Lewis

April 12, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

One room schools taught girls math and how to read enough to run a household and not much else.

They also didn’t educate other than white folks.

‘The Little House On the Prarie’ television ideal of education was based in reality about as much as was the family life of “Leave It To Beaver’.

By Eve

April 12, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

Posterchild—- Wow…..when did education become a black\white issue. You have a teacher who explained it very thoroughly about her experiences at black\white schools…and she pointed out at the black schools, there was stealing and a lot of misconduct, but at the OTHER school, there wasn’t. She directly related her bad experiences with race as the main factor…Hummm, so isn’t this stereotyping? She didn’t even mention anything about the administration….only the differences between schools where the majority was BLACK or WHITE. I too, have relatives who lived and are living on reservations……..and the culture is completely different, so hooray for you, but that is not the norm.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 12, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

high school teacher:

The research paper is a great example. As a parent, I know that my daughter does not like huge projects. We usually work on research papers in Steps. I’m sure that is what you did with these kids. However, did you ask for a copy of each step “completed” along the way. Not to grade, but to see what was actually being done while you were working on the project in school. NOW, I know they are not babies and I do expect them to work independently. However, to make sure they have grasped each step - we have to PUSH them along. I do this with my daughter because I want the best for her. I know that you want the best for these students. Some have Great parents, like the 9 who turned in their research paper. Their parents were probably fully aware of the due date and the entire project. However, not all parents will get involved with a project or make sure the project gets completed.

The point I am trying to make is that Education is about the children. Parent should motivate their children, but not everyone is going to do what “we” think they should do. After that statement, I will say it again “Education is about the children”. It’s important that a teacher has the ability to analyze the demographics and social issues of the children they teach and adjust their teaching methods. I hear it all the time in business: you have to adjust your presentation according to your audience. Some will need to be spoon fed and others will only want the highlights(desert).

In addition, many do not have the resources to complete research papers at home. I just found out that my cousins daughter, does not have a public library card. They do have a computer and she goes to the library at school. Some kids do not have a computer and have never set foot in a public library. Yes, that is the parents fault. But again, “education is about the child” - not their parents.

Not only that, libraries should be on every corner or in WALMART.

By meme

April 12, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

Kim, this is true about the majority of home schooled students (I am a homeschool booster and a public school teacher) but there is that small percentage who say they are homeschooling when they are just allowing their kids to stay home and do nothing.

By young teacher

April 12, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

EVE~ I take GREAT offense to your comments that you made about young teachers. You obviously know NOTHING about education. Unfortunately in ALL workplaces there are people there just working to get a paycheck. That is true in ALL workplaces. To say that it is the YOUNG teachers just there to get a paycheck is a very ignorant statement. I have been teaching for a year and a half. I am a male and I LOVE my job. I put everything I have into young people. I coach sports, I lead clubs, I get involved in their lives. I am not there for a paycheck. You must not understand how much young teachers get paid. We could get EASIER jobs that pay just as much if we wanted to JUST draw a paycheck. I do not do what I do for the money. I struggle to pay bills for my family because of the profession that I chose.

Unfortunately not all teachers care as much for students. There are some who are stuck in their ways or some who think teaching is about them. From 8-4, I am there for the KIDS.

There are problems in our schools, but they do not begin or end with the schools. In America today we have parental problems. My parents would not LET me fail in school. That was not an option. For many of my students, the parents are not involved.

I teach in a poverty school. Most of the school is on free/reduced lunch. We have about 70% minorities. I love this school. Unfortunately for many of my students they come from broken homes. Parents may be in jail, on drugs, never met them, etc. so it is hard to get any help from home. Young people are influenced SO easily by people from the outside that it is important to surround them with good role models. EVE, instead of blaming teachers, be a mentor to a student and encourage them to stay in school and get an education. Teachers are not responsible for not just teaching content, but now we are teaching students how to behave, teaching them how to be respectful to adults, teaching them basic life skills. I encourage ALL of my students to go to college. The sad truth is that they all will not. So I also have to prepare them for the workforce and life as well. It is a tough job, but I love it.

You cannot blame YOUNG teachers for the problem. You cannot blame any one group for this problem. The state of America is getting worse and worse in education. The government’s “No Child Left Behind” makes it even harder for teachers to help individual students.

EVE, you need to get a clue about what you are talking about.

By AJ

April 12, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this

The bottom line is this; more people, businesses,and parents need to get involved in ther local schools. When this happens, CHANGE WILL COME, but change will NEVER come if you don’t get involved.

Oprah aired this show as a wakeup call to america. A wakeup call? It’s only a wakeup call to those americans that don’t shop and eat where “normal” people shop and eat. Why? Because if they did, they would see the problems coming out of our educational system all across america. For example…cashiers not being able to give change without using the cash register, having to wait an extra long time when dining out because there are not enough workers, young people not being able to communicate clearly, and the list goes on and on. Why would you need a wake up call for something that you’re exposed to everyday. I have nothing against people with money, I just believe that some of you have lost touch with reality. When I read that this is a “wakeup” call and that people are “so shocked” that we have this problem in america, I just wonder, how could you have not known and why are you shocked? It’s not a wake up call to everybody. We “normal” people are wide awake dealing with it EVERYDAY.

Also, everybody wants to point out how Georgia is at the bottom of the list in testing next to South Carolina, but Georgia requires that EVERY student be tested and you cannot compare our test statistics to states with different testing requirements. We need to stop playing games politically and really focus on educating our children. I’m an educator in Georgia, and there are many reasons that students fail in education. You can’t just blame it on one factor. As my opening comment statedMore people, businesses,and parents need to get involved in ther local schools. When this happens, CHANGE WILL COME, but change will NEVER come if you don’t get involved.

By Researcher in the Industry

April 12, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this

SET: Sorry to disappoint you but The Bellcurve was discredited by right and left-wing researchers only a few years after being published. All of the findings (quantitative and otherwise) have been dismissed as gravely miscalulated and horrifyingly racist. You believe in the Ethnic Learning Curve, huh? I’m curious, what ethnicity are you? Well, now isn’t that convenient.

By LISA MURPHY

April 12, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

Why did it take Bill and Melinda to say what i been saying for years!!!! the school system has always felled the children in the inner city school zone with approval from the power that be.I an Atlanta native always had this thought about the schools, however i went to one school in the inner city call Paul Lawrence Dundar in the 70’s and our school had all the quality of a surb neighborhood why,because we had someone who had vision and expectation as soon as i left that school to go to my middle school everything that was implemented such as high expectation school spirit clubs that made you think was a goner.I just pray at this point that someone understand or get that being gifted doesn’t mean making straight A’S it mean have gifts and talents such as art singing, musical incline dance,getting straight a’s means book smart genius or a wiz how long will the school system especially the i’am in the Atlanta Public school district and starting year 2007 there will be no more trade or skills within the school district at all!!! how dumb is that to take those courses out but wait i figure it out they don’t get money for those courses and it doesn’t reflect the scores on the No Child Left Behind scores.i ask myself as aperson all the time it appear the more Degree sense we are getting the less Common Sense people have to understand that everyone is not college and we do not need to undermind trade and skillful jobs which starts business.

By MrLiberty

April 12, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

Everyone takes what I say very personally because I call them immoral for asking and allowing the government to steal tens of thousands of dollars on behalf of educating their children. Well, they should take it personally. They and the government are criminals.

That being said, here’s a suggestion to help the transition.

Shut down the government schools with 1 year notice. Eliminate all zoning and other ridiculous barriers to the building and establishment of new schools (including teacher licensure). Allow other organizations to “certify” teachers if they wish - then folks can really see how worthless and unaccountable a government certification really is. Allow those with the resources to bid and purchase the existing school facilities - even multiple schools if need be. Allow tax-free investment in any of these schools by anyone - including folks without kids - and allow tax free profit benefits so long as the investment is maintained. At the end of the year, end all taxation of property to pay for government schools. Fire everyone associated with the government schools - everyone. There will be plenty of jobs for those who are actually worth re-hiring. Going forward, allow 100% tax liability deductions for every dollar given to any educational establishment for the purpose of supporting someone else’s kid(s). In other words, scholarships, but also aiding a homeschooling family in your neighborhood, etc. Absolutely no deductions for parents for the costs of educating their own kids. Its high time they started paying their own way. Businesses would likewise be rewarded tax-wise for their contributions. They might even wish to start their own “free schools” to get an even bigger bang for their dollars.

Government leaders would just have to deal with a potential loss of revenue, but then we would finally be able to see just how much they really care about “the children” versus their other pet projects (like buying off constituents with other worthless garbage).

Got a better plan that doesn’t steal more money from me? Put it down and lets all kick it around. I dare you !

By Charles C Brooks III

April 12, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

I went hard-core in the Education Department of one of the top 10 private colleges in the nation until my senior year in my studies where I sat in on many high school classes. It is pathetic. “Public school teaches you to get by and private schools teach you to be everything you can be.” Fact. The students do not respect their teachers, the work is standardized, and I have personally watched 14 dedicated, energetic teachers get run out of the business because it has become A BUSINESS. It’s a joke. I have watch kids fall through the cracks as soon as they are deemed “unsalvageable”. “No child left behind” is yet another one of George W’s idiotic ideas that is failing miserably.

Homeschooling is booming. Private tutoring is being revived unlike any other time I can recall. The schools are failing our kids and the only way it will change is a lawsuit or lawmakers with one foot in reality. There is no way 30 kids will learn the same way. Those that lag behind are ADD, ADHD, MR, or otherwise holed away in some other room of excuse because, due to the ridiculous demands of the State, teachers cannot take time to TEACH!

Public school is a joke.

By Karen

April 12, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

I would like to pick up a fire extinguisher. I am a young single professional with both an engineering and legal degree. I was educated in public school and would like to give back. If anyone can suggest a volunteer opportunity or tutoring program, I am more than willing to help.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 12, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

Mr. Liberty - we do not “choose” to have the number of kids that we can afford. My family consist of twins and many times multiples births(everytime a child is born).

But according to your argument, poor people should not be allowed to have children.

A better argument would be to Not have children unless you are dedicated to spending quality time helping with homework.

FYI… Middle Class and Rich people are not producing the Best of the Best because of money. Having money - usually means more free time, because you don’t HAVE to work 2 JOBS. They may CHOOSE to work longer hours, but not because of the money.

Having money - usaully means having funds to pay for SAT Prep and tutors for little Susie. Having money - usually means sending little Johnnie to a GOOD Pre-K Program. Having money - usually means having a computer and educational software/encyclopedia’s in the home.

Having money - usually means you can afford to buy books for Susie and Johnnie.

Having money - usually means you are already “educated enough” to teach little Susie and Johnnie the basics - how to read, write and do math.

By high school teacher

April 12, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

Amazed, Actually, I did grade their work in steps. The 9 students who turned them in completed the work along the way as well. The others had not completed this part, or only found notes on two or three days, etc. I try not to look over their shoulders that often because they are 10th graders, and the real world that they will be “dropping out” into is not so kind.

By hs sped

April 12, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

Sandra, it’s not to give the sped teacher a break, believe me. It’s called least restrictive environment and it’s the law. You’re right, most kids don’t belong in the class and the poor reg teacher doesn’t have any help, but the parents usually INSIST that the kids go because it’s their RIGHT. And you know how it is in this country, more people are worried about their rights than their responsibilities.

By MrLiberty

April 12, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

E. Lewis

You wrote “One room schools taught girls math and how to read enough to run a household and not much else. They also didn’t educate other than white folks.”

“‘The Little House On the Prarie’ television ideal of education was based in reality about as much as was the family life of “Leave It To Beaver’.”

Sorry you simple mind can’t handle big concepts. Of course my endorcement of the one-room schoolhouse was an endorcement of whites-only female-repressed education. That you don’t know anything about the history of education shouldn’t become everyone else’s problem so I will attempt to clarify.

The one-room school house (and yes they existed well into the 20th century was a great concept for many reasons. They were funded by the local community so that all could afford to have a good teacher. They focussed on practical education for the time (yes, for the boys this meant how to run the farm or family business and for girls it focussed on the household, etc.) but it could be just as relevant for today (simpleton). The parents were in control of what was taught, and the teacher was accountable to them. Even better, there were multiple grades in the classroom. Not only did this mean that more advanced lessons were available for more advanced kids, no matter what their age, but it provided the opportunity for older kids to assist and help teach the younger ones. Though it may take some of you a while to understand why this is, but the real measure of whether or not you “got” something is your ability to teach it to another. Such a classroom provided that opportunity and that immediate feedback. The Montessori school that I attended was very similar in its location of at least 3 grades within a classroom. The benefits were unbelievable. I have never received as good an education as that situation.

And yes, there actually are families with stay at home moms that relish the arrival of their kids from school, take the time to find out what their days were like, cook for their husbands, keep the house nice, etc. No value judgements on them, but they do exist and always have.

Plenty of books on the one-room school house. Read one if you can.

By Susie

April 12, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

Kim—nail appointments and tennis matches? some of us actually do have to WORK for a living, to feed our kids and keep a roof over their heads. Join the rest of us down here on Earth. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to home school.

By Privateschoolguy

April 12, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

Home schooling is like home auto mechanics. Your’re not going to try it if you don’t know what your doing. Th home mechanic will work hard to do the job right because its their own car they are working on. If the home mechanic realizes that they cannot do a good job they give up and take it to a professional. You also need to have the time, tools and resources to do a good job. The same with home schooling.

By Susie

April 12, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

HS Sped, apparently there are NO standards for a homeschool teacher. I know one or two parents who homeschool, who can’t write a coherent sentence, let alone spell any of it correctly.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 12, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

high school teacher -

I am constantly looking over adults shoulders, because I am the team leader. I have to check to make sure that projects are completed on time and completed correctly. If the project is not completed on time, my clients don’t care about who didn’t do what. I’m not checking over highschool drop outs, but college graduates with advance degrees.

We have weekly meetings to discuss our projects to see what has/has not been completed. Higher performing teammates often volunteer to help others complete task. Many are afraid to ask for help, because of fear, it will make them look incompetent. I let them know that I am the point person, who is responsible for getting the project completed.

People who check on every STEP in the REAL WORLD are called Supervisors, Directors and Department Heads.

Don’t jump on my business world scenario, it’s to point out that Adults usually work in STEPS and we are constantly checking to make sure the steps are completed.

REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE - Last Thursday, I received an email for an emergency meeting regarding a presentation that was due on Tuesday. The project had not been started and the meeting with the client had been planned weeks in advance.

I wasn’t responsible for this project, but was called in to help. The responsible parties did not volunteer and couldn’t make a decision about who would handle specific sections. I immediately decided to handle the BulK piece and left the room.

My point: without guidance adults are just as bad as children.

By Homey

April 12, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

it’s always amusing when people in these blogs(like Rob D, E Lewis & A researcher in the Industry among others) tilt at windmills and chastise the rest of us on non-existant opinions.

No one in this blog is against properly funding schools or providing a solid education to our children. However, I would point out that many of our opinions parallel how many in Atlanta feel about MARTA. No one in Atlanta is against Public transit but we all pretty much agree that giving additional money to MARTA is simply flushing it down the proverbial toilet.

Same with education - we outspend every country in the world. Giving more money to government run schools to address the lack of performance is just more flushing action.

By high school teacher

April 12, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Point well taken, Amazed. Thanks.

By Susie

April 12, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

Kim, you can find “study after study,” that will say anything you want them to. If you look, you can find studies that will show the opposite. The difference is, who is doing the studies? It’s like a “study” by Proctor and Gamble that says that Pampers are better than Huggies. A study is only as credible as WHO is doing the study.

By Eve

April 12, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

Young Teacher … I know nothing about education???? I have 3 children of my own, and my oldest is 16. From grades 6-9, he has had only 4 teachers who had taught for more than 5 years. He’s an A & B student with an occasional C….and the C comes from when I’m slacking…not my son. My children also attend a PUBLIC school. Plus my mom is a retired school teacher, in the PUBLIC SCHOOL system. She taught for 35 years…..in a different state. That’s how much I know about our educational system.

By Eve

April 12, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

Amazed, I like your comments…..keep it up.

By been there, done that

April 12, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

I have to pipe in my comments regarding homeschooling.

I have 3 kids, 15, 13, and 9. My oldest (daughter) was a straight A student in the public school system - including the best marks in conduct possible. While she was in 8th grade, I had a meeting with the vice principal of her school, as I was concerned with peer pressure issues. I requested and was assured that I would receive counseling for her, which never happened.

A few weeks after requesting counseling, a new girl at the school asked my daughter to give something to another girl down the hall. My daughter asked what it was (turned out to be prescription anti-depression meds). The girl told her to just give it to the other person, don’t worry about what it was. To make a long story short (too late!) my daughter was charged with possessing and distributing controlled substances. She was “suspended” from school for the rest of the school year. This happened in November.

From there, I made repeated attempts to contact the school as to what my rights, options, etc were. I was never called back. While the school was trying to decide what her punishment was (which took several weeks) , her teachers were giving her zeros for all of her missed work. Try getting your kid into a private school under those circumstances! We tried, and were turned down. At that point, my daughter’s advanced math grade had gone down from a 96 to a 52 because of the zeros.

So, we did end up homeschooling her. I have learned that homeschooling is definitely for some kids, and not for others. I had always sort of turned my nose up on the idea of homeschooling until I actually did it. For my daughter, I chose an accredited program where she would also have the assistance of accredited teachers as necessary.

She is back in public schools, and I am now homeschooling my youngest.

My take on all of this - public school is for the cookie- cutter perfect kid. If your kid has any sort of issues, then forget it.

By Susie

April 12, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

MrLiberty, did you go to a private school or were you home schooled? Just curious.

By Homey

April 12, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

Can someone translate what Lisa Murphy is trying to say? Pretty much indicates that the Public school system in Atlanta has been broken for a LONG time.

By Jesse

April 12, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

Of course, I am not surprised at the findings. We should also look at how taxpayer monies are actually utilized on the local level at implementing the No Child Left Behind Act.

By jim d

April 12, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

If we really want better schools we need to stop all the finger pointing and follow the example provided in this link.

http://schools.publicschoolsreport.com/Georgia/Atlanta/LakesideHighSchool.html

All we need to do is have all our schools into areas with an average home value similar, keep class sizes and school enrollment at manageable levels and hire teachers that are dedicated and knowledgeable.

How damn hard can that be? Well other than the home value thing.

The bottom line here is that its not magic. Just dedication and hardwork with parents, teachers and administrators walking hand in hand to provide the very best.

So we can continue to point fingers or roll our sleeves up and get dirty.

Which will you do?

By been there, done that

April 12, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

young teacher, thank you for your perspective! It is refreshing to hear.

By Susie

April 12, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

MrLiberty, one more question…if the government stopped taxing my property so I could pay for my kids to go to school, (I’m with ya so far,) what about the kids whose parents don’t own property? Cut the landlord’s property tax out so that the kids living in the house/apartment can go to school? What about the kids living in government housing?

I’m just wondering how that would work. I personally would love to not pay property taxes and be able to send my kids wherever I want them to go. However, my property tax is not enough to send three kids to private school, so then what? I get to work two or three jobs so I can send my kids to school?? You need to understand that no matter what you believe, there are people who are just making ends meet, and doing the best they can. Adding an expense like private school is not an option for some of us, unless you know of some way that this would increase our paychecks too.

By A researcher in the industry

April 12, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

Homey:

It is not the lack of funding of schools it is the disparity. When child A goes to a schools where he is funded 3 times more than child B their educations will differ proportionally.

Case in point: I went to a very well-known, inner city high school in down town Atlanta. The general school is poorly funded while the magnet program has private funds. The magnet students (of which I was one) had high tech computer and photo labs. We had access to the television studio and the yearbook facilities. The general education students did not. Their were some computer labs that my friends who had not been in the magnet had never even entered. They were discouraged to do so. Even though this was a communications magnet, we also took separate math and science classes.

We were challenged and they were not. We had smaller classes, more individual attention and more opportunities to amend our own curricula. In the same school building you saw how school environment can either stifle or expand a student’s potential.

More magnet students scored high on the GGT. More graduated from high school. More of us graduated from college.

We entered the building as the same freshman students…we left worlds apart. Funding disparity is not the only problem, but it is a start.

By Teacher, Too

April 12, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

I teach in a minority school. I work diligently to provide a challenging and thoughtful curriculum, in addition to the state standards. I find students and parents more interested in extra-curricular activities than in completing homework. Sorry, but I don’t believe that a quality education can be earned in the seven hours of school that we have.

On a different note, I have no problem with school competition or the privatization of schools. I know that I work hard and would not find it difficult to get a teaching position. However, what schools are going to want to take students who have exceedingly high absenteeism, behavioral issues (not special ed- but students who refuse to behave), and students whose parents won’t actively be involved in their children’s education? What happens to those kids? Everyone says competition and/or privatization is the answer, but what happens to those students who are not welcome?

By Enoyls

April 12, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

I couldn’t agree more with the P.S “The valedictorian of a rural high school goes to college and is stunned by how far behind she is” part.

I experienced this first hand. I was in all “AP” (Advanced Placement) Classes in High School. Ones that were touted as exactly the same as first year College courses. WHAT A JOKE! Those classes were NOTHING like College and did absolutely nothing to prepare us for College classes.

I can truely empathize with the young woman in that statement. Been there, done that, and it sucked to play catch up when I should have already “been there and done that” if the “AP Class” had done what it claimed to provide.

Educators are viewed as babysitters and subsitute parents by far too many adults in this country. Until we start parenting our kids and letting the teachers teach we will be doomed to continue this pathetic path.

Educators deserve our respect and adequate compensation far above current measley standards set by a government too worried about keeping Oil companies in record profits over educating our children.

By Susie

April 12, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

Hehe, privateschoolguy, bad analogy…I was married for 18 years to a mechanic and had to pay someone to change my oil! He had to to “that stuff” at work all day, and didn’t feel like coming home and doing it some more! We bought a house that was lived in by the builder himself. We later heard never to buy a house that the builder built for himself…we learned that one the hard way unfortunately.

The point is that people ASSUME that a “professional” will take care of his “own” better than someone else will, but that’s not always the case. When it’s their own, they can afford to be lazier with it, they aren’t being paid to take care of it, and they aren’t going to get in trouble with their employer if they mess up something of their own.

There wasn’t anyone looking over the builder of my house’s shoulder when he built it and he took all kinds of shortcuts that I don’t even know how he got past any kind of inspection.

By kim

April 12, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

Susie,

I challenge you to find any study that shows the opposite (that public schooled kids are outperforming homeschoolers)anywhere. You want to know WHO is doing the studies? How about the very government that governs public schools? For example, the Tennessee Department of Education found that home-schooled children in second grade, scored in the 93rd percentile on the average, while their public school counterparts, on the average, scored in the 52nd percentile on the Stanford Achievement Test - or how about the State Depts of Education for Alaska, Oregon, North Carolina, Arkansas, Arizona, and Nebraska? All found that homeschoolers far exceeded public schoolers in their own districts - an embarrassing finding I’m sure. The studies are published. Look it up! Please! Otherwise, don’t speak about something on which you have little knowledge

By TC

April 12, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

What I am seeing on this blog is a total lack of respect for the recipients of our apathetic public school system - our children! Why do private schools and homeschoolers succeed in sending the majority of students to college? Because they don’t have to deal with the ridiculous, bureaucratic, top-heavy, mired-down system that America calls “public education.”

All that most public schools are interested in these days is teaching kids to take standardized tests that cannot possibly measure children’s intelligence OR potential. Learning to take tests is absolutely, positively BORING! And we are trying to blame the kids for not giving their all? Shame on us!

ALL children are born with innate curiosity about the world around them. To assume that the majority of kids in America cannot rise to the level of intelligence to be able to finish college - or high school for that matter - makes me sick! If we don’t believe in the compentence of our children then what hope do we have for the future of this country? If we - the parents, teachers, administrators, etc. - introduce them to subjects they are interested in they will learn! Is this not common sense?

Why do private schools and homeschoolers have more success? Because they can introduce interesting subjects and integrate reading, writing, math and critical thinking skills into these subjects. As long as the public school system is teaching to the test then kids will have ZERO context in which to put the information when the test is over. It will be forgotten as quickly as it was memorized and then the children will be exactly where they started - BORED and uneducated.

By RMJ

April 12, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

As American’s we better WAKE UP!!!!! Stop playing the race card. We are behind the rest of the world in education. Something has drastically changeD from the 60’s until now. I’m sooo sick of people putting race and parenting into thIS issue. This is a problem with our nation.

I am a PROUD American. I feel my country is the best in the world. We have made tremedous contributions to society as a whole. There is no reason we should be lagging behind in education as a nation. Our focus has changed. I don’t understand why we don’t see the hand writing is on the wall. If we don’t prepare our children (All of our Children) for this global society, we will see the 1st generation of Children that will not increase their standard of living over their parents.

Note: I am very disappointed in any Georgian criticizing how anyone is bringing this issue forward. With our drop out rate and standing in the Country’s education ranking, we have absolutely no room to talk. Get angry that our Children are NOT BEING PREPARED!!!!

By Homey

April 12, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

By A researcher in the industry - you are dead wrong. I spend about 75% of what ATL Public school spends per student to send my child to Private school. I’ll put my child head-to-head in testing with any of the students there.

Throwing more money at Public schools is just a waste adn will never produce the increases in performance needed.

By kim

April 12, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

Another thing Susie,

Please read my comments before you get nasty! I STATED that “There are too many parents who have the ability to improve their own child’s education/destiny but since they do not want that endeavor to interfere with nail appointments and tennis matches, they continue to complain that it’s somebody else’s fault/problem. With that attitude, the child will continue to lose!”

I did not assert that those who work without choice have the ability to homeschool

By Susie

April 12, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

Take your meds, Kim, it’s ok. I didn’t say that your little studies didn’t say what you say they did. I said, you can find a study that will say anything you want it to, if you look hard enough. Hop down off your superior high horse and you’ll be more nicely received.

The KNOWLEDGE that you claim I don’t have are from the people I know who have homeschooled. As I said earlier, a few of them can’t form a coherent sentence, let alone spell it. So how do you think they are “educating” their kids. There are also homeschool parents who do no homeschooling, they just let their kids do nothing. I don’t need a “study” to tell me what I’ve seen with my own two eyes.

If someone is qualified to homeschool and that’s what they want to do, more power to them. If they can afford to not go to work everyday, great. But there are people who are not able to home school their kids even if they wanted to. People like you looking down their snooty noses at the rest of us don’t endear you to us or make us likely to listen to much you have to say.

Pretty much after the “nail appointments and tennis match” thing, you lost about half of your credibility, because if you would pull your head out of your nether regions, you’d know that MOST people don’t live that way.

By Susie

April 12, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

Well Kim, I guess my definition of “ability” and yours are two different things. Sitting at home on your can all day long doesn’t necessarily give you the “ability” to teach. Once again, there are home schoolers (a few who have posted here in the past) who can’t write a complete sentence. Do you think someone who can’t spell or write needs to be educating anyone? Just because someone doesn’t go to a 8-5 job every day does not mean they are equipped or qualified to teach anyone anything.

By E. Lewis

April 12, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Mr. Liberty

I’ll say this in your defense, there are exceptions to everything and segregation wasn’t the fault of children.

In my defense, none of my much older Caucasian friends and relatives who lived in mixed communities even generations ago, the very communities that had small local schools, was educated with blacks.

As a percentage of GDP expenditures per student the USA is behind Tunisia, Sweden, Portugal, Denmark and Belgium. The problem isn’t how much we spend, but where it’s spent.

By A researcher in the industry

April 12, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

Homey:

Take your own advice and stop arguing null opinions. You seem educated - you know that when people speak of funding it is not just gold and silver that make the difference. It is the subsequent effects in the teacher quality, administrative morale, parent involvement, etc. Because private school parents write the checks they are more involved. Because private school teachers get paid more they are more dedicated. Because private schools have less district over-head, they spend more on materials, books and labs. Because private schools value their “rich” legacy they have more school spirit. Because private schools have smaller classes, the students get more attention and score higher on tests - just like our home schooled counterparts.

God (or the devil depending on your perpsective) is in the details. As you can see, I have no problem with private school. As a matter of fact I think public schools can learn from them. Another fact remains, however, and that is that most parents cannot even afford 75% of what the state pays to educate their children. Lucky for us Thomas Jefferson and company were determined to govern an educated people and committed themselves to public school for all.

We (and by we I mean those of us who care enough to debate these issues) must admit that when resources, capital, money, whatever, are given to some and not to others that is not what was meant by public education. Don’t you remember why we intergrated schools based on gender? It wasn’t because girls aren’t as smart. It was because the boys’ schools got all the good stuff. I should know, my old high school was integrated in 1957 for that reason.

By kim

April 12, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

Susie Clearly you are on the meds, and it’s scary to think about what kind they might be.

Your personal observations suggesting that those who are not public-schooled cannot form a sentence, do not represent any sort of mass and have no scientific meaning whatsoever. The only reason that society’s knowledge continues to grow on most subjects i.e. medicine, is through studies. I agree that some studies can be skewed. But since you are so certain that all of the homeschooling studies are skewed, including those “little” studies done by the government that you dismiss, then I have challenged you, again, to find any other study supporting what you assert. You can not. You can only throw sticks and stones. Sad. You are a huge part of the problem that we are discussing today.

By MrLiberty

April 12, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

I got a bunch of questions and I need to make a few comments.

First, Suzie. I was sent to private schools for the first 12 years then a state university for college. My parents taught me from the minute I came out of the womb. I started talking at 9 months, was reading by 3, skipped 2 grades, graduated high school at 16 and college at 20.

As for the property taxes and affording school, etc. all I can say is that our entire society is based on the premise that the government will always be there as the educator of last resort. Once you and everyone else wake up to the reality that government will no longer be there, you will approach your relationship to your child and their education differently. There is no way you will not. If it really matters to you, you will take the extra few moments you might have each hour or day to fill in the gaps for your child. It is also important that everyone’s paradigm shift to realize that education is not something that goes on from 9-3 at some government approved institution. Education happens all the time, and if we approach kids that way, then learning becomes fun and it happens with less effort and all the time. As for money. The reality is that individuals as well as businesses are all paying WAY more for everything because of the failure of our schools. The higher taxes I spoke of get passed on to everyone in higher costs of everything. Businesses must provide rudimentary education, just to prepare workers for their jobs. When the schools are closed, these costs will come down, and you will find yourself with more money to spend (on schools, etc.). It is also important to understand that money does not equal good education. Just because the government wastes 6-10,000 dollars per kid on education doesn’t mean that private schools will charge as much. They do now for two reasons. One is that they are looking to keep their product exclusive, and they are providing amenities to these rich kids to justify the costs. These amenities may not be needed for a good education. You need to decide, but there will, in a free market, be a wide range of options from expensive to cheap that will all offer a good quality of education. We have all seen only the current situation. We cannot imagine anythign else, but I can assure you that we will never fix the current situation by doing more of the same things that we are doing today - only with more money. That is never the solution.

As for Homey. Please be informed that there is at least ONE person on this blog who absolutely believes that the general public should not be forced to support government schools. I also do not believe that everyone should be forced to pay for PUBLIC transportation or any other socialistic cause that you support. There are still a few free thinkers out there Homey who know the difference between socialism and a free society. I believe in everyone supporting themselves or relying on the charity of others. Anything that involves force or involuntary taking of money is theft and any program based on theft is immoral. Maybe Cuba would be a better place for you to spew your socialist dogma.

By luvs2teach

April 12, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

Not finished reading yet, but one thing jumped out at me - the apathy and the boredom - several have said “teachers need to make it interesting.” Well, some of us try, but our kids are now trained to be “edutained.”

On the related thought of college being more interesting - yes, it is - because you have CHOCE!

Choice is what is missing for our bored and apathetic students (not school choice - another topic) but choice in what they study.

Example - I HAVE to teach Earth Science - a topic I love, but many find dry (at best). I try to make it as interesting as possible, but, let’s face it - we’re studying rocks! Kids ask me all the time, “Why do we have to study rocks - they’re boring.” I have gone as far as gluing eyeballs to rocks and having the kids adopt pet rocks to make it more interesting for them…

There are schools (Brown Barge Middle School in Florida for example) which manage to offer choice and still cover the curriculum - I would like to see mcuh more of that - particularly in middle school, which is where we lose most of them. Many of those dropouts have already dropped out mentally by 8th grade - they are just waiting until age 16 to make it legal.

By luvs2teach

April 12, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

JR - your 12:15 post was right on target!

By SNY

April 12, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

SET,

Why did the names that you mentioned have to be black names. Do you think that only black kids curse out the teachers? That is America’s problems - in and out of the classrooms.

By Dan

April 12, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

Researcher, Your arguments sound good but are unfounded Most private school teacher make LESS than their public counterparts, the schools with some of the highest spend per child in the atlanta area are among the worst. (Atlanta city schools have some of the highest per student spend in the state) On average private schools spend much less per student, (the marist’s out there are the exception not the rule) and the founding fathers did not mean for the federal government to pick up the tab, even now the federal government funds only about 7-8% There is no easy solution because we are dealing with limited resources, in funds assume an average household making 45K with two kids (this is ball park census data) if class size was limited to 20 for instance that would require the family pay for 1/10 of a teachers salary say 5K (or 11% of their gross pay) for the sake of easy math. A bit of a load for such a family, and that doesn’t include all of the overhead or other taxes for roads sanitation etc. The other limited resource is teachers, everyone wants smaller class sizes which of cours means more teachers, but teachers already represent one of the largest professional segments of our society. their are almost double the number of HS elem teachers than any other profession requiring a degree. This means the well is mostly dry. New ideas need to be tried money and more teachers is just not feasable.

By Eve

April 12, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

I hate when people critize the Public Schools. When their child is accused of something they THINK their child had not dealings with, or think that they should be making A’s instead of C’s, it’s the school’s fault. Like I commented earlier, my mom taught in public school, I have 2 other siblings with graduate degrees, ( I only have a underdgrad), and my husband also have a grad degree (educated in the public school system as well). My children are all making good grades except for that occassional C from my eldest. I choose to fill in the gaps that the teacher’s refuse or don’t know how, or whatever the reason. I REFUSE to pay someone to teach my child when I can do it myself. It seems like in this society, chanting “My child goes to a private school”…is as common as the glorified style of hip-hop these days.

By Homey

April 12, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

By A researcher in the industry - not sure what you’re talking about but when I speak of funding I do mean just that - cold hard cash (not sure where you got your definition). And where do you get the opinion that money is given to some for education & not to others? That’s just high & mighty B.S. Audits indicate that more money is spent on non-performing schools that is being spent on performing schools.

Bottom line is we as a nation spend plenty of money on education & we should be getting more bang for our bucks. Throwing more money down the current education toilet will not fix anything.

By jim d

April 12, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

Dan, I totally agree the answer isn’t more teachers. It’s more dedicated, trained teachers working alongside parents and knoledgeable administrators.

By Eve

April 12, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

SNY—- SET is either a white racist or a black person that doens’t like who he is and I think it’s the latter.

By kim

April 12, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

Before you assert that homeschoolers cannot form sentences or use correct grammar, take a look at your own postings. How about this you wrote: There wasn’t anyone looking over the builder of my house’s shoulder when he built it and he took all kinds of shortcuts that I don’t even know how he got past any kind of inspection.

Does your house have a shoulder Susie? Perhaps you should learn more about grammar before you judge everyone else’s.

In fairness Susie, I don’t think people spend a whole lot of time editing their chats in this kind of forum. Perhaps you should pick something more suitable to judge than the online chat grammar of certain kinds of individuals.

By MrLiberty

April 12, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

Quick point of clarification.

Most private school teachers make way less than their government, unionized counterparts. They enjoy their jobs and do them better because they are allowed to be teachers, and are not forced to be government indoctrination agents. Further, without the security of a union, and with the benefits of the free market, they know that their good job will be rewarded and a poor job will be terminated. Good luck ever passing these kind of reforms in the government system.

Another point is that everyone seems to want parental committment. What better way to force committement than to force parents to pay the full bill. Just look at how the nice car is taken care of. Just look at how much time is taken when considering the choice of color for the carpeting, or the house to buy, or even the clothes to wear. You pay, you care. You dont’ get involvement or parents who care by giving them the product for “free”, not letting them shop elsewhere with the money, and not giving them the power to fix the problems.

Let me add another novel, yet certainly not Libertarian concept to the mix. Since all of you seem SO concerned about the “poor” kids that won’t get a good education, why don’t we just let the “poor” kids attend government schools and tax accordingly?? I would think that my tax bill should drop to around 100 dollars per year. What’s the matter? You still want the government to steal for you too don’t you? Because you don’t value education enough to make the tough decision between the new car, the vacation, the big screen TV, lots of dinners out, new clothes, etc. and your kid’s education. Why did you have them again???? Personally I think that such a plan just plain isn’t fair to the poor kids. They have it tough enough without having to be stuck in the government school system.

Oh and by the way, my parents did without a whole lot of things so I could go to school. When my dad left and paid no child support, my mom, who worked as a secretary (around $10,000 a year though the 70’s), worked out a deal with the private school I was in. Because I was such an excellent student (yes, partly her doing, but also because I knew it was expected of me) I got a scholarship to help us out. She paid what little she could, and continued paying them, even though she didn’t have to, even after I left. I send checks to the fund now to help out others.

America is the most generous nation on the planet. We are getting tired of the entitlement mentality however and it is quite rampant in this discussion blog.

By E. Lewis

April 12, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

Private schools do well with less money, but the main reason that’s true is because they can be selective. My friend’s daughter attends a Christian school and they are very picky about who they admit. They also deny re-admission to students who get bad grades or develop behavioral/learning disabilities.

I could also go on about how most private schools don’t have to pay for bussing students, don’t have kitchens because lunches are catered and how parents have to pay for absolutely everything that’s not oncluded in tuition costs, but I won’t.

By Homey

April 12, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Mr Liberty - how the heck do you read anything Socialist into anything I’ve posted? Which bears the question - do you actually know the meaning or are you just trying out a big word for the day. Not even sure you know how to read cause I can’t for the life of me figure out how you got the mistaken idea that I support forced support of social causes. I clearly state that I believe current fiscal support of these programs is adequate & by no means should be expanded. I’m also very much a supporter of competition to the curent educational model & privatization of almost all functions handled by the government.

Chill out dude cause you couldn’t be more wrong.

By Eve

April 12, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

Oh yea, before anyone blast me about my grammatical errors…..I’m at work trying to do both. I said at 10 that I was making my last comment and just read…but I am always amazed at how this country is still sooooo racist….and now, the country got other minorities racist against immigrants!

By another teacher

April 12, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

I have a good friend who teaches a GED program. Homeschooled students take the GED. All students are pretested before given a course of study. Often times, when a homeschooled student tests at the 3rd grade level, the response is, “oh, yeah. That’s when we stopped doing math.”

By Robert

April 12, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

Schools and teachers simply cannot solve/correct all of the ills of our society. This just has never and will never be the case.

Our society has changed so much. Parents (not all of them) have stopped teaching their children basic manners (every watch Nanny-911?) much less spending time actually reading to thier toddlers. When I grew up, parents regularly set aside time to read aloud to their children and to ensure that they taught them basic manners before ever even going to kindergarten. These day parents (not all of them) seem to think that if they feed their kids and buy them $200 Nike shoes then that is all they need to do.

If our society really expects our schools to teach every single thing from manners to social graces to the most basic “rules” of our society, then we need to add about 4 years to our public education.

That all being said, yes, there is an educational crisis in most areas of the Country. Because of everything mentioned, many teachers (not all teachers) have to spend time either trying to teach the social graces or simply protecting themselves and other students from bodily harm, rather than teaching content. Administrators deal with guns, drugs, and whatnot rather than focusing in on academics. Is this the teacher’s or the administrator’s fault????

Also, some of you have to speak badly about teachers. A human being can only do so much. The salaries are still in the toilet, and so to start with, the profession will only attract a certain type of person. Then, you add to that the ever-growing paperwork required of a teacher (thanks NCLB) and the multiple standardized tests required and the ridiculous behavior of students - no wonder teachers are thinking “just give me a paycheck and let me the heck out of here!”

Solutions? It has to start from the bottom and go up. How about REQUIREING a parenting class in order to get health insurance that covers child birth? Teach the general public how to actually parent! Imagine the possibilities….

By Homey

April 12, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

Eve - apparently the post is filled with people that don’t completely read the news either.

The problem that has the country’s attention is with illegal immigrants - not with immigrants that come here legally.

You should probably pay better attention next time. I’d also be willing to bet you’re a Cynthia McKinney supporter.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 12, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

What many forget about Private school is that they have only a SET NUMBER of students each year. Which gives them the opportunity to have a lower student/teacher ratio. Private schools also create their curriculumn and set their own punishments for misbehavior. Private school due not provide meals, but include the cost of meals in their fees. The larger private schools do provide transportation too and from school, for a fee. Many also provide before and afterschool care, for a fee. Most have dress codes and this is an additonal cost for the parents. Books and other supplies are not included as a part of Tuition, so this is also paid for by the parent.

So my point is: If you can and want too spend money sending your children to private school, that’s great. However, the majority in this country could not afford to send their children to PRIVATE school, even with a VOUCHER.

If we privatize schools, we would end up having to subsudize the cost of educating poor children. Which is what Public School does at this time. We would have the same issues: overcrowding, high student/teacher ratio and providing transportation, etc….

The HIDDEN agenda, is to have two kinds of school systems based upon INCOME:(Private and Public) with taxes going to PRIVATE and seriously underfunding PUBLIC schools. REASON: you will always have a LARGE Group of people, who would not be able to meet the cost of educating their children. They would not be able to come up with at LEAST $5,000 a year to send LaKeisha (per SET) to a Private school of her choice. If she gets a $2,500 VOUCHER, where will she get the additional $2,500 PLUS? NOT Including Transportation, BOOKS and LUNCH.

WE WILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WE ARE EXPERIENCING AT THIS TIME. SO, STOP COOKING THE BOOKS. THE COST CAN’T BE HIDDEN.

By A researcher in the industry

April 12, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

Dan,

Perhaps we should broaden our scope. And be more specific a the same time. When my mother and I considered private Atlanta Schools (Westminster, Paideia, Marist, etc) they all either spent more money than Grady High per student or used it in such a way that they had olympic size pools, science labs, new football uniforms each year, a fleet of buses, etc. Maybe they are just plain better people and that is why all of those things happen upon them. Who knows? But at Grady High we had a cafeteria that fit 1/3 of the population and two school buses.

The real argument here is not public v. private.

My argument is based on the Oprah segment that compared two public schools. While the show was about 25 years too late, the looks on those inner-city students’ faces was enough. You can tell they fell cheated. They feel worthless. They feel under-prepard and this is all in comparison to other public school students. Now either, that entire suburban public school was filled with naturally better students and teachers (as SET would have us to believe) or there is something in their environment (parents, teachers, siblings, administrators, diet, schedules, time in front of TV, etc) that makes enough difference for them to not be in remedial classes freshman year.

Finally, despite how it ended, Thomas Jefferson did intend to have education for all. In fact, it was his trip to France and seeing how convents educated girls (his daughters specifically) that urged him to promote public school for all Americans, including girls (of course blacks were omitted but we were not people back then…you can reference his chartering of Liberia for where he thought we belonged ;). Remember that he founded UVA out of his dedication to the American educational system.

If I must choose between all of the ‘better school; arguments I have to urge that we level playing fields. At least that will allow us to see other issues at hand. Right now the disparities in school environment are so great that it muddies the water.

By just one

April 12, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry that some feel that technical education is the place for “non-academic” students. Some don’t understand that students involved in technical education programs must be able to master math, science and language arts. Technical manuals require more advanced reading skills than academic textbooks. I don’t want someone working on my $30,000 automobile if he/she can’t read, write, and do math. Electricians must be able to interpret architectural drawings to wire buildings. These skills are very complex skills that develop after a mastery of basic skills. Teachers are being encouraged to make lessons rigorous and relevant. Rigor and relevance are fine once these students have mastered basic skills. When I give my students something rigorous, they just give up. They won’t even try it if it requires them to think a little. They expect for everything to come EASY. I have at least ten students that have missed more days than the allowed number of days. Our school policy states they will not receive credit for the courses. Guess what, we don’t want them to drop out so we will give them credit anyway. There are problems with education. My son is encouraged Monday-Thursday to spell words the best way he can, but on Friday he has a spelling test. Make up your mind!!! Finally, PARENTING is KEY to children succeeding. As a parent I understand that it is up to me to make sure my child learns what he needs to know to succeed. Without me he would would not have guidance. I don’t believe that a school should have to discipline. Schools should exist for the the lone purpose of educating. If a student has issues that prevent him/her from being educated then send them home until the issues are corrected. If parents were doing what they were suppose to do schools wouldn’t have as many challenges.

By Eve

April 12, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

HOMEY— Haha, you are so funny. And guess what, I’ll leave it at that. I’m at work and don’t have time to write childish remarks like that. Hummm, adults insulting adults…..and we wonder why kids are insulting teachers…..

By hs sped

April 12, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

Kim, I’ve got three words for you…get a life. Your posts are tiresome.

By atltoday

April 12, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

HOw do you privatize rural schools where the next nearest school could be 25 miles away?

Race is definitely not the issue but class probably is. If race were the issue, the students in Dekalb’s good schools would be failing too. Unfortunately many poorer families don’t have the resources to help them when they’re busy like johnny has when dad works late or when he gets in trouble at school, its cute.

Let’s start by treating every school fairly financially, but don’t raise taxes to do it. make the boards accountable to handle funds better

By hs

April 12, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

Why don’t we all just look out for our own kids and let the chips fall where they may? With enough parental support at home, most kids will be fine.

By kim

April 12, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

Another teacher,

Are you in a union? Just wondering.

All of the “he said/ she said” comments are meaningless without data supporting them. Why does everyone have the idea that there is anything wrong with public schools anyway. It’s because we have seen the data (i.e compiled test scores by the states). Why is that data by the state so valid and other data by the state, i.e. on homeschoolers dismissed? Again on the whole, the homeschoolers score way ahead. What good is it bringing up a comment that “so and so” knows a homeschooler who cannot add. Take a look at how many publicly high-schooled kids can’t read! Anyone can provide a one-off example about anything. What matters is the overall success or failure of the children in given settings.

You’re a teacher. Bring some real numbers to the table that have some meaning. The experience of your “good friend” or brother’s next door neighbor just doesn’t have any value in general terms.

By MilesMama

April 12, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

I am convinced that the reason our students don’t learn much is because they aren’t taught much. Currently our state supports a Pre-K system that teaches them the letters and their sounds at the rate of one a week. Then the kids go to Kindergarten and are taught their ABC’ again. My son knew his letters and their sounds when he was two. He could read when he was three and reads very well now that he is four. If I trusted his education to the public school system he’d be at the mercy of a curriculum that is 4 to 5 years below his abilities. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think my son has any great intelligence that the average child doesn’t have. I think that all children should start learning their ABC’s when they are two. They are capable of it. They are not capable of tolerating the same educational environment of a 5 year old, so you just adjust the environment to their maturity levels. Instead of throwing letters one at a time at them from a board. You find an entertaining book or two that covers the ABC’s to read to them. This only takes a few minutes a day, small children CAN DO IT, and enjoy it if allowed to. My concern now is what’s he going to learn new when he gets to Kindergarten? He may have already mastered the curriculum, but he still possesses the maturity level of a 4 year old. He needs the classroom setting that Kindergarten offers because that’s the class that’s set up for his age. He also needs intellectual stimulation that matches his abilities and that, I’m afraid, he won’t be getting.

By Lonnie

April 12, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

My concern is pointed at ALL parties involved. I have worked with youth for 15 years, and I see both sides. First, I see parents that are too lazy to make the kids do class work, or even check to see how their child is doing in class. You would think that teacher parent nights would be a great time for check ups!

Next I see lazy youth who would rather have things handed to them on a silver platter. The work ethic for school is not that big of deal for kids today. Disrespect is a mjaor problem.

Which leads to my final observation, lower standards. I was angered when I found out that you dont need to graduate to walk at graduation. I was told we need to encourage and not “belittle” those who cant make it.

My point….Higher standards for everyone!!

School - No pass - No Graduation Parent - Take responsability as a parent Child - Know this, life isnt fair,

By living in fl

April 12, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this

WAKE UP!

THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE IS IN A FUNK. IT STARTS WITH COMMUNITIES AS A WHOLE. WE CAN “BLAME” CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE SOCIETY HOWEVER, THERE IS NO ONE INSTITUTION TO “BLAME.” ALL ASPECTS OF THIS SOCIETY WORK TOGETHER TO SHAPE EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIVES. EDUCATION IN AMERICA IS SUFFERING BECAUSE WE ARE. IT IS OUR MILITARY THAT IS KEEPING US WERE WE ARE, THE #1 POSITION.

AMERICA GOVERNMENT IS A BULLY. WE THROW AROUND OUR MILITARY MIGHT AND TELL OTHERS THAT THEY CANNOT ADVANCE. AND THE REALITY IS CLEAR, MOST COUNTRIES ARE ALREADY LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF US. WE SPEND OUR DAYS SLAVING FOR BIG HOMES, SHINY SUVS, NAME BRAND CLOTHES AND CREDIT CARDS. WE DO NOT EMPAHSIZE IN OUR EDUCATION, KNOWLEDGE, SPIRITUL GROWTH AND COMMUNITY. THIS IS A COUNTRY OF MINE, MINE, MINE.

EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP THE QUACKING AND START THE WALKING.DO NOT BLAME PARENTS, TEACHERS, ADMINISTRATORS OR POLITICIANS. NO ONE PERSON HAS THE SOLUTION AND NO ONE SOLUTION CAN SOLVE THIS MASSIVE PROBLEM. UNTIL WE PUT A VALUE ON EDUCATION WE WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE THESE SHOWS.

MOVE INTO THE 21ST CENTURY. TECHNOLOGY, MEDICINE, SCIENCE, SPACE ARE OUR NEW FRONTIER.

By Dan

April 12, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this

Researcher Much of the feeling cheated is lovingly cultivated by those who benefit from the controversey. they use it and exagerrate it to mask their own failings. I went to a high school that was considered rich in our county (60 miles north of NYC) but I had to wear old football cleats that they had in a closet in the school, and we got new jerseys but had to do all kinds of fund raisers to get them. Point being, to often people compare the outliers on either side and fix the extremes, you say you are a researcher, you cant draw valid conclusions by examing the high and low. you need to understand and address the center where the great majority of people are, fix that, then you can address the extremes separately. Applying exteme measures to situations that are normal is a big reason that are funds are wasted

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 12, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this

This is the first time I have heard, that Dekalb has great schools. They may have a few Great schools, but the system as a whole is minimal at best. The same goes for other school systems in the Metro Area. They may have 2 or 3 great schools, but the systems are all minimal. They outscore many of the rural schools, because of access to other resources only.

By Homey

April 12, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

Eve - guess I did cross a line. No one should be subjected to being accused of being a Cynthia McKinney supporter.

However, correcting your misquoted racist rantings regarding the country’s attitude towards immigrants was in no way insulting. But it sounds like it’s just wasted effort on my part & that you simply don’t get it.

By Carole McKenzie

April 12, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

Yes this is a wake up call for me, I truly believe in education and believe that no chile should be left behind. I know that Oprah is one person, but, glad that she had thisshow for the world ro see and know what is happening to our children. I’m thankful for the Gates who took time out of their schedule to appear on this show. Coming from then and Oprah this cause those in charge to look at the system and regroup.

I plan to do all I can to educate my grandshildren and instill in them the importance of education.

By Jason

April 12, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

The problem with our schools is culture.

I am ten years out of a Georgia public high school, but I can remember how bad things were. Kids in math class would question the teacher as to why they need to know algebra, trig, or calculus. Kids in history class don’t know how many articles there are in the Constitution, much less that it replaced the Articles of Confederation. I was the kid who got picked on for raising my hand to answer every question. Why are things this way? Because kids don’t care. Why don’t they care? Because they don’t see any immediate return on investing their time in learning. It’s not the school’s fault.

It’s sad, but the whole country is operating with this attitude.

By MrLiberty

April 12, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

Hey Homey, they are your words:

No one in this blog is against properly funding schools or providing a solid education to our children. However, I would point out that many of our opinions parallel how many in Atlanta feel about MARTA. No one in Atlanta is against Public transit but we all pretty much agree that giving additional money to MARTA is simply flushing it down the proverbial toilet.

Be more clear next time. You are too general with your assumptions about EVERYONE’s support for socialist programs - and yes, government education is socialist - from the funding mechanism to the lack of accountability, to the lack of market feedback to the government control. So is public transit - nobody pays the real cost when the ticket is bought.

I can see from your other posts that you are more in touch with the problem than these kind of comments would imply. There would be no hope if “NO ONE” was against the current system. Thankfully there are plenty of folks.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 12, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

To all who don’t believe our problems with education are about Race and Income, check out the blog over the Cobb Hillgrove/McEachern redistricting. The school board has made a decision and the unhappy campers are threatening to move away. But, this is America.

By A Researcher in the Industry

April 12, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

Dan,

Saying most students exist at the midpoint of school equality is like saying most Americans are middle class. That is a fallacy. While I don’t believe that schools are split 50/50 the top half being overwhelming underprivileged and the other extremely wealthy, we cannot say it is a normal curve either. If it were this blog wouldn’t exist. Affirmative action debates on college entry wouldn’t be hot and those who explain their positions using race and gender would have little to complain about. But all of these conversations go on because our society is set up to privilege some and not others. Those of us who get the privileges don’t notice it and those of use who do not are being dismissed as whiners when we attempt to shed light on the problems.

But this country was founded on the idea that if you give people equal rights and opportunities then they will excel. Unfortunately that has never - I repeat - never happened. And yes our Colins and Condoleezas are out there, but, using your logic, they are outliers .

A great man once said “If we are wrong then the Constitution of the United States is wrong…”

By Dan

April 12, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

Jason I kind of agree but the problem isn’t asking why they have to do algebra kids have always done that from why they have to do chores to math. you can read Chaucer written 1000 years ago and see evidence of kids that question the reasons for doing things and you are right its because they cant see the return on investment but that has not changed. what has changed is teachers are not allowed or have been taught not to say “you do it because I said so” (granted you should try to explain first but at some point you just have to tell them) Kind of like a tough love thing that kids appreciate later. Probably another reason (of many)private schools do better

By luvs2teach

April 12, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

One thing that Mr. Liberty says that I do agree with is that the cavalier attitude toward “free public schooling” would most certainly change if we had to “pony up” and actually pay for stuff.

Kim - FYI, there are no unions in Georgia, and while it is true that many studies support the effectiveness of homeschooling, discounting someone’s empirical evidence is arrogant. Just because it’s not quoted as a statistic in your study does not mean it isn’t true or doesn’t exist. Remember the old expression about lie, damn lies, and statistics?

Homeschooling is an answer - the right answer for many - just not the only answer for all.

A large part of the problem with public schools is the public! We are dealing public funding and can’t agree how to spend it; we are dealing with societal ills and a public that wants to use the schools to solve them; we are dealing with a public vastly different from person to person, community to community, state to state, and yet we want a one-size-fits-all solution.

I also want to be twenty years old again with all the wisdom I have now and none of the wrinkles - yeah, that’s as likely to happen as one solution to solve the “Crisis, Crisis, Crisis.”

By A Researcher in the Industry

April 12, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

Homey-

Funding begins as cash and is invested into various areas. So when I mean we have to review our funding policies I mean the entire process. So, of course, we cannot throw money at the issue. Just like you don’t throw a babysitter into your home when you leave your child or throw a leader into office. Taking my opinions and conflating them down to throwing money at a school is disingenuous.

Furthermore, I mentioned before that funding is not the only issue. But I sincerely believe it is a major one. If we all choose more specific projects that we are expertly educated or experienced in to focus on then our work will be more relevant. Just shouting about all things will simply result in more shouting. In other words, let’s not just “throw” words around. Let’s be thoughtful, sincere and determined to keep this country working as ONE country. Unless, of course, Georgia would like to secede again.

By DR

April 12, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this

Public school is a joke because it is staffed by principals that are forty years behind the times.

By Homey

April 12, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

By A Researcher in the Industry - don’t recall in any history book I read from that this country was setup to guarantee all people excel. Only that the rules are contrived so that everyone has the opportunity to excel.

No one ever guaranteed a universal level playing field for all Americans - the only guarantee is that you do have the right to get into the game.

By MrLiberty

April 12, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

Somebody please explain to me how you can ever “VALUE EDUCATION” if you aren’t paying for it, can’t withdraw your money when you are dissatisfied, and can’t take your money and your business elsewhere?

If everyone agrees that you cannot, they we must all agree that this system must go and everyone should pay their own way, along with charity, for education purchased through a free market mechanism.

Price is the primary mechanism by which value is determined. There are plenty of others, but without price, there are no feedback mechanisms that drive quality, service, features, success, profit, etc.

You do not truly value government education because you are not paying the full price, nor are you able to choose a competitor, nor are you able to withdraw your financial support.

You would not put up with this kind of failure if the supermarkets were run this way, why do you put up with it from the government schools. Race, class, gender, and all that crap have nothing to do with it. You have been brainwashed by the very system that educated you and you are too afraid to try something that might work better.

By A Researcher in the Industry

April 12, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

Homey -

The preamble to the Declaration of Independence clearly states that all men are endowed with “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” It goes on to state that governments are supposed to “secure these rights.”

A level playing field is guaranteed and should be. The NFL will not allow one end zone to be up a hill would it? Why do you think schools were integrated? If you are still pondering, it was becuase segregation (and the disparities that resulted) was “inherently unconstitutional.” Though we have not succeeded in removing all institutional disparities from the US, the High Court has sent down the ruling that disparities in funding take the playing field of education from level to warped.

By Chandler

April 12, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this

Okay I must respond! I love it when people like SET and Fed up decide to bless us with the wisdom that they obviously have in abundance. To actually believe that garbage of a book by Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein only lets me know that somehow you think you and the race you belong to are smarter than every other race. I found it hilarious when I first read this so called book in 95 that they somehow left out the fact that IQ is only about 30% genes and the rest is directly a result of a Childs influence and surroundings. Meaning if your parents, total family or community (Black, White, Hispanic or whatever) have a low education level that environment represents 70% of a Childs basic IQ. This is true regardless of what race you are. So I know that book made you feel superior FED UP and SET, But when u add all the evidence from those two frauds with the rest of the scientific facts you learn the cold hard truth…Your race just as every other race are just average with above average to extraordinary individuals in them. Lets get something straight SET. CHASE and Madison curse teachers to. Try harder next time not let your bigotry show so much!

By scott

April 13, 2006 08:13 AM | Link to this

Could someone show me an actual documented study proving that home schooling is better than a public school education. For example state graduation test, performance in college. I know their are associations but I do not like people making blanket statements that home schooling is better. I have friends considering home schooling and their education and training does not appear to me what it would take to teach a child the necessary academics.

Taking a child on a field trip and letting wake up and work whenever they want can be done on the weekend and summers.

By Karen Armsby

April 13, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this

Mr. Liberty, Your definition of VALUE of education as you said is monetary, and your ability to pick and choose school vendors.

My definition of VALUE of education is the relevance it has played in my life and my children’s; the totality of the experience of learning to learn, of applying that learning, and of learning long beyond formal education ceases. Value in education is the sweat equity the student invests in learning, the rewards of achievement, good grades, diplomas, college scholarships and degrees, and fulfilling careers. Value is the awareness I have that I am a lifelong learner, and that I can choose a new path in my life tomorrow and learn the skills to get me along successfully.

Schools are not supermarkets, and education is not a commodity. A student gets out of the school as much as he puts in in effort (sweat equity), not money.

By realistic teacher

April 13, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this

As a teacher I see the problems in school firsthand and all I see is people trying to shift the blame instead of doing something about our failures. Schools in America need a complete overhaul. We are a country that produces nothing because we don’t produce skilled citizens. Students should have the chance to learn a trade within the public school system. This incessant focus on college preparatory classes is unrealistic. Not everyone is meant to go to college and setting each child up with that expectation is setting them up to fail…our country needs mechanics and plumbers and electricians and chefs and hair stylists, etc. These skilled occupations should not be devalued in our schools or in our society. Until our schools construct a system designed to help the children decide what THEY want to be and guide and prepare them for a productive life, college-educated or not, our school system will continue to be a failure.

By Homey

April 13, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

By A Researcher in the Industry - none of the documents you cite guarantee a level playing field to all. I believe you’ll find the support you’re looking for in the writings of Marx.

Your Sports metaphor is lousy as well. Try being the visiting team on a fall Saturday in Tuscaloosa, Athens or Knoxvillle & experience a little thing called home field advantage. Sports have a defined set of rules yet teams & individuals will always exploit advantages - just like the rest of life.

By meme

April 13, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

In my last class, I just had a 7th grade student (male) quote Oprah and Bill Gates. He was very concerned about the Georgia math test scores that they talked about.

By Susie

April 13, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

Scott, if I had the time and the mathematical skills, I think home schooling could be interesting and fun. I know for a fact that I could never teach them the math they need because I still need someone to teach me how to do it! My high school had a wonderful English/language department, and an equally bad math department. Add to that the fact that I do not “grasp” a lot of mathematical concepts, and I’m just a disaster when it comes to math.

Luckily my oldest is a math whiz, and can help the younter two with their homework if they need it!

I could do the language arts, social studies, probably the science, (but then again, probably not high school science.) Most of the “verbal” stuff I’d be ok with, but I’d hate to be responsible for teaching my kids math…the poor things wouldn’t be able to balance a checkbook when they grew up!

By SET

April 13, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

Candy:

I’m late getting back to you -

Jensen was just the first in a (now) series of researchers. We are way beyond Jensen’s work.

I’m not saying I’m pleased with the results of the 100 years of data that say they IQ distribution is radically different for the different ethnic groups. But it’s true no matter how you and I feel about it.

If we don’t agree on this fact the conversation is pointless. You continue to make all your decisions in life on your proposition that IQ is racially neutral.

I can see the havoc all around by those who publish the lie that all are created equal other than before the law. Funny how pain can teach.

If we want to make life better for certain ethnic groups there are things we need to do and to stop doing. Ignoring racial differences completely is what led to this mess we are in. (Black diseugenics and the resulting skyrocketing prison and death and unemployment rates).

Maybe when you’ve had enough of the Pain you will look for an explanation and a way to stop the decline.

In the meantime things are going to get much worse if present trends continue. Throw all the welfare and Affirmative Action around you want. The death and failure rates will continue to mount.

Dealing with the problems realistically and with an understanding of why things are happening gives you a better chance of mitigating the disaster.

By teacher

April 14, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this

I am so sick of people thinking that anyone in their right or otherwise mind would teach children for a paycheck and some holidays. I am floored by the opinion that any teachers are young and lazy. Oh I am sure they are out there, but I work with 16 in my department alone (165 teachers total at my school) and maybe one doesn’t put out as much effort as I am about to talk about.

I get one week off per six weeks and six weeks in the summer. If I did not get that time off I would not be able to make it. You know what I do in the summer? I have two weeks slated for classes. One for my third AP certification and the other week for classes for needed PLUs and just to be better at what I do. I have two children, one in high school and the other in pre-school. I once thought I became a teacher because at the time I was a single parent and thought the hours would be beneficial. I was in for a rude awakening right away. To be a good teacher I have always had to work nights and weekends. I am constantly changing and improving my lessons. I teach geography, so things have to be current and I have never relied on a text more than any other resource. (If they could just read the book then why have me?) When I should have been making time for my daughter I was grading or preparing for the next day, and you know what I am still doing that after 9 years. Let me tell you my typical day and anytime you want to trade jobs with me I will be more than ready: I get up at 5:45 (sometimes earlier if I needed to sleep and didn’t finish something I wanted for the next day), do some exercises and jump in the shower, get my 2 yr old ready, kiss the husband good bye and then drop the 2 yr old off and drive to school. Once there I may need to copy something or what ever, but I am on the move. Classes begin and I go straight until 1pm when I get 20 minutes for lunch. Then my last class and I have the last period of the day “off”. That is unless there is a meeting or tutoring I need to do which is at least once a week. My off period is used to clean (sometimes after careless children), plan and grade—-oh and maybe use the restroom—believe me there is little time for that. I usually work until 5pm and then go workout. Just back in time to pick up the little one, do dinner and baths—maybe watch one tv show and do some work. Get the kids to bed and make sure my teenager made it threw the day, finished homework and did her chores. Then it starts all again the next day. Oh, except for the evenings like last night when we have parent nights until 9pm or Student council meetings until 8pm. So I make it until the weekend, but wait like this one I am wasting time typing this instead of making the test I am giving on Monday, so guess what I will be doing on Sunday? And even if I don’t waste time with stupidity like this I work on the weekends or during vacation because I teach during the day—have to grade sometimes. So please—if you think this job is easy come do it. I am worn down every day, not just by my schedule, but by the needs of 120 14yr olds. The only reason that anyone would continue to do this is because either they are crazy or they really want to make a difference.
The writer is completely right about parent’s expectations!

The only thing I question is the acceptance of inequality of facilities.

By olga

April 18, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

my parents used to tell me to go to school and i did because you cant survive in this world w/o education. they made it clear to me and said im not going to get that big house i always wanted or that brand new mercedes benz w/o my education. we have some parents who just dont care about their childs education and we have some that do. we need more parents to get involved.

on the other hand, even though we have kids in beat down schools, doesn’t mean that they cant learn. if the child wants to learn, but the teacher isnt giving them enough education, the child can always learn by themselves. if they really wanted to learn, they can pick up a book and go beyond what the teacher is teaching them.