Get Schooled

By high school teacher

April 11, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this

I think that it is a travesty that our 6-10 year old population must be stressed out over a test.

By Susie

April 11, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

I agree with you wholeheartedly, High School Teacher. It’s absolutely insane.

By Jeff

April 11, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

After yesterday’s contentiousness, it is nice to find something we can ALL agree on! :) :) :)

By Chanel

April 11, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

Our schools have been preparing since school started. If the kids have to cram a week before the tests are they really learning anything or are they memorizing. Can our own government pass the CRCT or even the high school graduation test? Information I would like to know.

By jim d

April 11, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Not today Jeff,

The CRCT is a joke.

Go here and look at the released forms from previous years and then tell me this is a legitimate test of what our children should know.

http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/curriculum/testing/crct_forms.asp

By jim d

April 11, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Ridiculously low cut scores based on some bogus, weighted grading scale.

Yep, sounds stressful to me.

Best advice for students; don’t fret the small stuff.

By high school teacher

April 11, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this

Jim D, my point is that regardless of the ease or difficulty of the test, our children have been stressed with preparing for it. I have friends whose children had trouble sleeping because they were worried about taking the test.

By my alibi

April 11, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

What bothers me the most about the CRCT test is that my daughter’s school has taken the last 7-8 weeks of class to “teach the test” to them so they score well. My daughter came home with a 70 page (front and back) packet of test questions to “learn” and this is only in the first grade. Shameful….

By hs sped

April 11, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

The kids that don’t pass will go to the next grade anyway. Wait and see. Remember, the final step (after failing the test the second time) is a “meeting” where the parent can appeal the decision to have their kid held back. If the kid is in special ed, or the kid has already flunked a grade, the kid will move on. I suspect that regular ed kids that have not previously failed a grade will be allowed to move on if the parent yells loud enough. The test is just a way to have documented proof that Georgia is complying with the NCLB crap. Oh yea….an added bonus…if your kid scores well…he/she may be flagged for the gifted program!

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 11, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

The test is clearly a joke, but it’s not the test - education is a joke in this state.

My daughter is taking the test next week and has never been stressed about it. She has always said that it was a very easy test. For her class, they see it as Party Time - because they are allowed to bring Food and Drinks.

I was never allowed to bring food or drinks to a test. Go Figure, but it seems to help soothe the kids. So I signed up to bring a snack next Wednesday.

As fas as who will pass/not pass the test - I pass a middle school everyday and it bothers me very much to see Kids in school in June. Last year during June, it looked like school was in full session.

Last year, a boy in my daughters class made D’s & F’s primarily - failed the CRCT. Took the CRCT during the summer and was in the 5th grade this school year. I wanted to tell his parents that I felt he should have remained in the 4th grade. But, who am I? If the parents, couldn’t see that for themselves, I guess I have no right to state my opinion.

As a parent, I don’t think we should be given the opportunity to decide if our child is promoted to the next grade. In addition, a child who has D’s & F’s on his/her report card and who does not acquire the necessary score on the CRCT - clearly should not be allowed to retake the CRCT and definitely should not be promoted.

The only children who should be given the opportunity to retake the CRCT, should have made above a “C” on his/her report card and came very close to making the necessary scores on the CRCT.

I blame the parents and the administrations/teachers for children who fall into the above category.

By MMM

April 11, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

In my 1st grader’s classroom newsletter we were cheerfully informed last month that the kids would be “learning how to bubble” in anticipation of the CRCT. Now there is a “life skill” for you.

My third grader came home with an ID and password so she could take the practice test online over break. About mid-week she came to me wanting to doing it, but the ID did not work. The state help line told us to call the school.

By Robert

April 11, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

Why aren’t kids “stressed out” over EVERY test? A test should have some element of nerves. Even if you know the information inside and out, you will experience some stress. Why would this be bad thing? Didn’t we all experience this in school? I know that I did!

I believe that this is the problem with elementary and middle schools, today. Too often, it is “play time” with “no stress” which translates into “no learning.”

IMHO, all middle schools in the State should have a graduation type test before they enter high school….. and not just the CRCT that tests limited subjects. This test should test all subjects - math, English, social studies/history, and science. Then and only then will the State high schools get incoming students that are capable of handling high school subjects and content with hopes of graduating.

Stop babying middle school students!

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

I refuse to buy into the HYPE surrounding this joke of a test!

If I’ve been doing my job…and I know I have, my students will do well, and quite frankly, I’m not worried.

The cut scores are RIDICULOUSLY LOW…last year, a child I retained missed 34 of 50 questions on the LA section..YET PASSED THE TEST! HUH?!?!?

I am refusing to do those test packets teachers are pushed to create, copy, and use. I’ve told my babies (my class- I love ‘em!) that while this test is pretty important, I don’t want them to stress out- I want them to show what they know! This week, several of my colleagues are bombarding their classes with “test practice”- I refuse to! I am confident that this class will do well, as every other class I have ever taught has done.

When they come up with a REAL measure of my class’ progress, maybe I will sweat it. But a test with a obscenely low cut score isn’t it. Additionally, I refuse to teach to the test…there are more ways to discover if kids are learning than to put a bubble sheet in front of them and have them regurgitate facts!

Just my half-penny…it was 2 cents..but I adjusted for inflation…

;-)

By grammar fiend

April 11, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

“I promise to do my best, on the CRCT test.”

I hope that the person who designed the pencil doesn’t teach grammar. Why is that comma there?

By yada yada yada

April 11, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

Amazed Independent woman

What about the kid? What happened to people taking credit for their own bad choices? The parents bust their butts to provide for the children. The school spends all amounts of money on the child. The teachers have meetings to come up with ways to get the child to learn and try to make it interesting for the child. The children are given several chances and choices but continues to not give a @#&*.

And it is the schools fault??

By Dekalb Educator

April 11, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Whew…what a topic for me! (I am on break right now) Yes, this is a VERY stressful time to say the least. Last week during my spring break, I had a nightmare about having “prepared” my 2nd grade students for the CRCT the “wrong” way. I had to take a “class” and show my Asst. Principal that I knew the material myself. (talk about a NEVERENDING nightmare)

Now that we are back in school..we have to prepare our classroom doors and make a banner. (the class with the best banner/door will win a popcorn party..YIPPEE!) We will also have a peprally to kick off our “superbowl”.

I am praying that all goes well next week. I wish that I could blink my eyes and we would be past this test. I have done countless days of CRCT practice packets..practice runs in the classroom..homework practice…NAME IT!

I am 33 yrs old and wish that we could go back to the way we tested when I was in elementary school. The only thing we knew was that before the end of the school year, we would take a test. The teachers taught us the basic skills that we needed. (and more) When test time came around, we knew to get at least 8 hrs of rest, bring in 2 number 2 pencils, and eat a good breakfast and that was THAT!

Boy do I miss those days!

By esol

April 11, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

I am told to teach the test. Kids today are inundated with tests from EOCTs, Gateways, GHSGTs, CRCTs, ITBS. If they fail any of the high school tests, they take them again on make up dates. My students typically miss 20 days of school per year testing.

It’s unbelievable. The kids really feel the pressure in high school if they are low level learners, special ed, or ESOL. The average kids should be fine.

Regardless, I am told to teach the test. It’s so different today than it was when we were in school. It’s tragic but it all comes from the top. Schools are graded on student test scores.

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

Robert, The CRCT in 3rd, 5th, and 8th grade does cover content material. Students are tested in Reading, L. Arts/English, Math, Science, and Social Studies. The only grades that don’t do SS and Sci are 1st and 2nd. However, that too is changing shortly.

By yada yada yada

April 11, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

MMM

Why are you just now trying the online practice test? If your school has waited this late to inform you about the georgia online assement site then I would discuss this with your schools admin. This site has been up and running all school year. Someone in your school was just notified that the state has been monitoring what schools were using the site and how many practice test have been created by your schools teachers.

Sure would hate for a child to fail the test because they could not darken in the bubble corectly. Teachers have to try and cover all the bases. I sure someone would have complained if the teacher did not practice this ” life skill”

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

Amazed—

Gee thanks..but no thanks! I refuse to take responsibility for students whom I have recommended for retention moving on.

Trust me, teachers have very little say in who moves on. We make “recommendations,” and can be overuled by administrators AND PARENTS. This is the first year I will not be retaining anyone…however, in the past, each year, I have had at least one student, whose teachers (yes, plural) in previous years attempted to retain, yet Mommy, Daddy, Grandmama, etc. came to the rescue and pushed for placement into the next grade.

And the result? Kids failing these high stakes testing. Eventually it will catch up..but isn’t it better to be retained earlier and build on a weak foundation? I had a situation last year where the guardian overuled the custodial parent..and the child was pushed for 3 yrs into grades she didn’t belong. I managed to build a good, trusting relationship with the guardian, and convinced her that this is what the little one needed?

I am proud to say that my instincts (as well as my colleagues who taught this child before me) were right-she’s EXCELLING finally, because she was allowed to repeat!

I can’t IMAGINE going to my doctor, listening to his/her recommendations on how to treat a serious problem, and then decide, “nah, I know my body better, I’ll just do this instead,” and then go back and blame said doctor for my body’s inevitable failure!

yet, this is what happens in public schools day in day out, year after year. I’ve taught in three states-and it’s the same.

So, when you paint teachers with the brush o’blame regarding moving kids on, understand, rarely it’s OUR choice…

(just ask any teacher, they’ll tell ya, it’s true!)

By jim d

April 11, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

HST,

Kids don’t know stress, they learn it from teachers stressed about the test.

There are more effective ways of teaching students not to stress than continuing to pound on the don’t be stressed button. The emphasis added by the schools is what creates the stress.

By Dekalb Educator

April 11, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

In regards to the “CRCT test”…that alone is incorrect and it works my nerves to NO END! (ARGH!)

C.R.C.T =Criterion Referenced Competency Test

For a person to say CRCT test is saying criterion referenced competency test test.

The T stands for test..(whew..sorry, another pet peeve)

(the same goes for those that say SAT test)

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

Dekalb Educator:

My condolances. I think this whole “pep rally” mentality over testing is STUPID and insane!!!

We’ve been forbidden to give HW (even required reading for logs!) over the next two weeks…despite the fact that grades 1 and 2 will be done by the end of week one. So, my class will be done with testing during week 2, but our schedule will be completely blown..no other testing (math, spelling, etc) is allowed…

Keep in mind: my class will be done by Friday of the first week…yet we can’t move on and resume our normal schedule until the rest of the building is done the following Friday.

Am I alone in this forest?? Does anyone see how insane this thinking is??? I don’t want my kids to have hw or tests during their testing time, but the week AFTER??

Too much emphasis on the wrong thing. Gone is the emphasis on wanting to learn for the LOVE of learning!

By Jeff

April 11, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

I_Teach: If I can land a contract before my last day, I’m gonna fail every single student that makes less than a 70 and I am NOT going to change it. (Neither will I sign anything changing the grade behind my back. Dunno how it works at this level yet, but I know for a FACT that at the collegiate level the professor has to sign off on ANY grade change.)

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

Hey Jimd?

Not true, not true…

You don’t think kids stress out on their own?

I am the proud mother of a child who has been diagnosed with (among other things)-test anxiety.

In second grade. No lie. He’s in HS now, and has learned to control the freak outs better, but we actually wound up in the hospital trying to figure out why my child was in agony…

Kids do understand that these tests are ‘important,’ and these poor 3, 5, 8th, and high schoolers also realize that, “if I don’t pass this, I don’t move on.” The teachers are NOT passing this on. This is reality…these kids know the stakes.

My son, who is severely learning disabled will begin taking the GHSGTs next year. He’s already losing sleep. It doesn’t matter that his teachers and my husband and I have been telling him he’ll be fine, he is smart enough to know what these suckers mean.

So, please-don’t place the blame on us..and this pep rally, design a banner, chant, etc, mentality was NOT the brainstorm of a teacher.

I just want to do my job…TEACH!

By G

April 11, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

The CRCT is nothing but a way for bureaucrats to assign numbers to a student’s and school’s progress, as if that would solve any real problems. Along with the other myriad standardized tests that students have to take, it allows people to take credit or to find someone to blams (usually the latter). These tests are often poorly thought out, and there’s little recourse against error or poor design. Meaningless measurements and statistical blather don’t solve problems, they cause them.

Dump the tests. Let teachers teach and hold students accountable for their failures without fearing for their jobs or even their personal safety, find another alternative for students who won’t perform academically, and put teeth in evaluations of administrators, and you’ll see a big difference.

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

Jeff…

Good for you! Unfortunately, I can give Fs, and they can’t change it, but they CAN override me and place a child I say needs retention in the next grade.

I always bring ‘evidence’ to support my decision…I make sure there is a paper trail of SIGNED documents (by the parents) so when they try to act surprised that precious didn’t pass—I can pull out these reports/papers!

Question: What happens if you DON’T land a contract??? You know anyone you fail will try to come up and have the grade changed…will you try to stand your ground? I hope you do…Isn’t it frustrating? We’re professionals..I’ve got advanced degrees…yet my decision, input,and recommendations are not worth a thin dime.

Good lucking landing a new job!

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Jeff… been thinking..I think an administrator may be able to change that grade—even if you disagree. I would hope that they would not do it just to appease a parent though..

(After all, THAT never happens, right?? ::insert mad cackle here:::)

Back to work.breaktime is over!

By Dekalb Educator

April 11, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

I_Teach…I am with you on that mess of a SCHEDULE! For the life of me, I can NOT understand why must we suffer like that?

We test Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday…after that..we sit and rot in our classrooms while the building is in “testing-mode”. (sighs…and they WONDER where the behavior problems come from?)

By Jessica

April 11, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

Tests like these are exactly why the high school dropout rate has increased. There is too much stress an impact on students these days. There should not be a test as the CRCT test or GHSGT. What ever happened to passing end of year tests and grades through out the year?

By Taxpayer

April 11, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

Are children LEGALLY required to take these tests? I know that school attendance is mandatory, but this testing period sounds to me like a very good time to schedule excusable appointments for the doctor, orthodontist, dentist, podiatrist, dermatologist, astrologist …

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 11, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

yada yada yada A child can not promote him/herself to the next grade. Yes, they should take the responsibility to learn. However, children under 14 do not understand the end result of NOT Getting an EDUCATION.

I_Teach

Don’t whimp out on me today. Yesterday you guys wanted to take back your JOBS. If you guys want to LEAD A REVOLT on EDUCATION - children being promoted to the next grade who do not meet the criteria is an EXCELLENT CAUSE to CHAMPION. I’ll be with you GUYS All the way.

The only people being hurt in the long run are the CHILDREN.

By jim d

April 11, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

Yeah right, Amazed

Teachers won’t do anything. All the old timers I know explain it this way.

“why should I risk anything? It’s just an educational fad that will pass just like all those in the past.”

By Robert

April 11, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

I need to clarify my post on what I call the “graduation test” for middle school vs. the CRCT….

The CRCT is a joke. I was bringing up the idea of a “graduation test” for middle school students where they must pass before being allowed to move into high school. No excpetions allowed, regardless of parental complains, etc. After all, this happens with the State graduation test! Students must pass this in order to graduate from high school, right?

Is this pressure? Of course! But think of the disserve that we give by allowing students that are not prepared to learn in high school to move out of middle school. It is far better to hold them back in middle school until they learn the required material in order to give them a chance to succeed in high school.

If this were to happen - watch the drop out rates go down and watch the graduation rates go up! Also, watch parents ensure that their child actually learn stuff in middle school rather than playing around.

By jim d

April 11, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer,They miss and they can make up for 8 days after the origional administration of the CRCT. Make sure those doctor appointments are out of the country.

By teach

April 11, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

The worst part of these tests is that the teachers are judged based upon the student’s scores. We have several teachers at my school that have 1/3 or more of there class as brand new students who have only recently arrived. How can you hold the teachers accountable for students they don’t teach? AND at my school all of the special education teachers have been demoted to a lower “step” level (evaluation schedule) because the students weren’t all passing the test. And they keep changing what is taught in each grade over and over so you never know what to teach! We haven’t even looked at science or social studies because we have to teach the math and language arts sections so they pass the test and make the principal look good. Its all just a game and kids are losing out on real education. I hate it! No more NCLB!!!!

By jim d

April 11, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

“The worst part of these tests is that the teachers are judged based upon the student’s scores.”

To reitterate; The educational market is speaking (loudly) and will not be denied. Unless things change drastically and soon the public school system will collapse, like many of the old communist governments, under its own blind and bloated weight while it watches the accelerating exodus from public education of the brightest students.

By high school teacher

April 11, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Hate to break it to ya, Jeff, but administrators can change a child’s grade without a teacher’s permission, or even a teacher’s knowledge, and they do!

By Robert

April 11, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

jim d - yawn. your tired rhetoric about the “evils of public education” does get very boring. How about solutions to the problems? And, I do not mean your repeating message of “getting rid of public education” but rather, what would you change about public education? Let’s see if you can apply your critical thinking to this problem!

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

Amazed, Since you’ve never walked in MY shoes, don’t tell me I’m wimping out. How many years have YOU taught? Do you understand the hierarchy/administrative garbage we work with. If you stand up and say (as I have) that a student MUST be retained, parents view you as “hard, unreasonable.” Principals RARELY will back an elementary school teacher who maintains a child should be retained if the parents are going to scream. Every year, we have to fill out a form with ‘potential retainees.’ We also have to list the parents’ probable reactions.

So, do me a favor…come do my job for a while..(I’ve got over 14 yrs in)-

If you think for ONE second that as a ‘lowly classroom teacher’ I have ANY power whatsoever, you have NO idea what it is like working in a school system.

I agree, the STUDENTS are being hurt..but nine times out of ten, it is because their moms and dads refuse to acknowledge or accept that their student needs to repeat a grade. I’ve seen and experienced this too many times. My friend, also an experienced teacher is reading this over my shoulder…and summed it up perfectly: “They’re ashamed.”

She’s right. When the stigma that is placed on retention is removed, then parents won’t fight us..the so-called professionals!

My name says it: I TEACH.

By Renee

April 11, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

Although, my son is in fifth grade and has been taking the practice tests on line for the past two months, when he is finished he is able to send it to his teachers I guess to prove that he is practicing. It has helped, but he still stresses over it. It is a test to prove what the kids have learned or if the teachers are teaching them. How can they learn anything if they rush through everything.

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

Attendance and CRCT:

We push attendance…ya see, even if a school has “passing grades,” if one, and i do mean ONE child, in a ‘subgroup,’ is absent or does not take the test, it can cause a school to not make the “AYP,” or adequate yearly progress..the benchmark by which all things NCLB are measured.

So, we make sure that ALL of our students are here, especially those minority populations (whatever they might be in a particular school), special ed., or ethnic…

We’ve had several schools here be put on the NI list..because one or two of their special ed. kids did not take the test…Ironically, one was in the hospital, in a comatose state!

And…if schools want to continue receiving federal funding, then they must find some kind of testing instrument to use.

Problem is, testing is NOT a one-size-fits-all solution, and it does NOT show the progress one of my kids made last year…from a kindergarten reading level, to two grades up..and only 4 months below level. So, this test showed he was below grade level, but hey! This kid had made HUGE strides that year, and this year has finally caught UP!

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Renee,

I set up the same online account/testing for my kids. I sent home the passwords, and I do check.

I am not checking to see if the students are practicing…I know how hard my little ones work for me, so I know that whatever they do at home is ‘gravy.’

However, the one thing it DOES do is prepare the students as to what kind of questions and the format of the questions. They know what the word problems will look like, etc. It gives a sense of familiarity for them, so they aren’t shocked when they see the thing!

Tell your boy: do your best, I know you’ll be fine. I keep telling my own son that! I also tell my class that every single day!

By SNY

April 11, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

What are the kids who don’t have access to the internet suppose to do to get ready. I need to get a better computer. Mine crashed and I haven’t had the money to get a new one. Those poor kids don’t have a way to study or to get ready for the tests.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 11, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

I_TEACH

You’re still whimping out on me with: my Administrator, the mom and dads, I can’t do it by myself, etc…etc..etc…

Start a petition to the GOVERNOR and KATHY. I WILL SIGN IT.

LEAD A MARCH to the GOVERNORS MANSION - I WILL COME.

I WILL CONTRIBUTE MONEY TO YOUR CAUSE.

BUT STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT NOT HAVING ANY POWER and LEARN HOW TO USE THE POWER YOU HAVE.

THE ONLY THING I WILL EVER ASK of TEACHERS, IS NOT TO KICK OUT STUDENTS, WHO MAY/MAY NOT WANT TO LEARN.

I TELL YOU WHAT I_TEACH, I WILL WRITE A NICE LETTER TO MS. COX and SEE IF I GET A RESPONSE, AS A CONCERNED PARENT. I WILL LET YOU KNOW and WE CAN TAKE IT FROM THERE.

BUT DON’T WHIMP OUT ON ME.

By Renee

April 11, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

I_Teach, I don’t think my sons teachers are checking up on him on whether he is practicing, I appreciate them for wanting to help, and give him and the rest of the class a heads up on the test, this definately has given him the confidence he needed, he still stresses, but I’m sure he will do fine. Thanks for your kind words.

By SNY

April 11, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

Amazed,

I am with you. I would love to be a part of something that is sticking up for the students in this state. The teachers can only complain to the state but so much. They probably aren’t listening to them anyway. How many bosses really listen to their employees? Why would we expect the Department of Education to be any different? You know how it is, your boss asks you for your opinion only to act as if he didn’t hear it. Then why ask? These teachers have been screaming that this doesn’t work for years and no one is listening. Maybe it is time for parents to help them get their message across.
I’m here if you need me.

By Susie

April 11, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

I_Teach, I allowed my middle son to be retained in the second grade. The teacher only recommended it, he was passing everything and his test scores were “ok.” She was worried that his reading comprehension wasn’t what it needed to be for the third grade, and she was right.

In the first grade, there was a child in his class who was autistic. He had a person assigned to take care of him during the day, but it was a constant and neverending disruption with this kid. Lots of screaming throughout the day…anyway, I think he lost a lot of ground in the first grade and struggled to catch up in the second grade. While he could read anything you put in front of him, he didn’t “retain” much of it. So, when she recommended that he do second grade again, I agreed with her. It did help that he was already a good bit younger than the other kids in his grade, with when his birthday is, so he’s not really older than the other kids in his grade now. This was years ago, but giving him that extra year did wonders for him. I think he’s more on his maturity level than he was back then…and I’d rather him have been held back in the 2nd grade than for him to keep falling farther and farther behind and then have to be held back in middle school when it REALLY matters to kids.

People shouldn’t see it as such a terrible thing for their kids to repeat a grade, and see it as an opportunity to catch up to where they need to be before going forward.

By wwww

April 11, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

Are people really stressed out by the CRCT? (The people who actually TAKE the test?) Why??? If so, someone needs to explain to these students that the curve on it is insane. Remember, it looks really bad for the state of GA to retain 20% of its 8th graders! It’s in EVERYONE’S best interests for as many to pass the first time as is possible.

It’s completely arbitrary and pointless, just like many things in education. You just have to learn how to play the game. If working in ed has taught me anything, it’s how to play.

People are not interested in what kids learn, or how much they learn. THey only want to see and A or B on the report card, and a good CRCT/EOCT/ITBS/GHSGT/SAT/ACT score. And by people, we are all in it together - parents, teachers, admins, CO personnel, state legislators …it’s been this way for a long time, the only thing that makes it different now is there are real consequences tied to those scores.

By Recent Graduate

April 11, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

I am a recent high school graduate and i had to deal with the GHSGT & EOCT. I think that these test are a insult,because 1 they are on the middle school level and two the teachers can’t possibly teach or prepare you for whats on a test they haven’t seen. I had a teacher tell me i’ve seen this test follow my lead and you’ll do fine. i believed her. So i listened. But when test day came around when i seen the test none of the information that i was told to study was there. So i think there is no way to prepare for a test as importants as this. YOU EITHER KNOW IT OR YOU DON’T. Thank God i passed mine on the 1st try.

By Dekalb Educator

April 11, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

I will side with I_Teach on the matter of retention.

Last year, I had a student that did NOT need to be in the 2nd grade. Upon reviewing her permanent files, I saw that she was supposed to be retained in the 1st grade. The order of retention was OVERRULED by the outgoing principal that May. I struggled an entire year with someone that was not ready for the 2nd grade.

She is now in the 3rd grade…WHY? you may ask..well, we were “told” in so many words last year, to pass them along…the CRCT would “catch” them in 3rd grade. Now, of course, this revelation did NOT come from peers (other teachers)..but the adminstrators. (sighs)

So, one would have to wonder…just what can be done by the teachers? Even if we feel and can PROVE that a child is not ready for the next grade level, actually having a child retained is like searching for a diamond in a bucket of ice.

(much like the SST meetings where MUCH needed time is wasted just yapping accommodations instead of getting the help that is needed. It got to the point where I rarely took students’ work with me..what for? Im not being heard)

I apologize if I sound as if I have given up…but it gets to be so discouraging everyday!

By jim d

April 11, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

Robert,

My critical thinking skills lead me to the conclusion that it wouldn’t be in the best interest of this blog to join you in what would surely become a combative conversation that would rapidly deteriorate into an off topic discussion. But thank you very much for asking my opinion.

Have a great day.

You’re welcome Patti

By Patti Ghezzi

April 11, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

Just a quick clarification note: Schools are not responsible for students new to the classroom for AYP and No Child Left Behind purposes. The scores used to calculate AYP are of students who have been in class since the October head count.

Patti

By Daniel Gross

April 11, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

The CRCT is incredibly flawed, which many people seem to agree on. Is it developmentally appropriate to ask a first grader to sit and take standardized test for over two hours? No. Is the test culturally sensitive? Absolutely not. Are there worries about retention and promotion? Sure. Are we powerless as teachers? No.

I have learned a great deal about teacher research in the last few months, and I believe we have the ability to tell the stories that are not being told. Observe your class and write field notes. Conduct interviews with parents and students about the worries of high-stakes testing. Put it all together, make sense of it, and get it out there.

We might not be the ones in charge, but we do have voices. Only apathetic voices claim there is “not enough time” to tell these stories. If your outrage over the CRCT is genuine, then become a teacher researcher and let your voice be heard through your findings.

Just a thought…

Dan Early Childhood Graduate Student UGA

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this

Susie, I’ve had a few parents who share your thinking…we are working together…and I would never recommend a child be retained for any other reason than s/he needs it. There have been kids that I have been forced to promote, because they “got by,” then I spent the following year worrying about that child I knew really wasn’t ready. I couldn’t retain, because the few guidelines we do have to retain, didn’t apply (ex: failing reading, or multiple subjects).

Kudos to you for recognizing that your boy needed more TIME. I told one parent that she had done everything for her girl, except the one thing she needed..give her the TIME..she’s doing INCREDIBLY well this year..because her mom finally realized that no matter how much tutoring, studying, etc…her baby girl needed time!

;-) Glad your story worked out well!

By Kage

April 11, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

We are done with the CRCT - finished it last week, make ups were done today. Hallelujah! Yes, the kids are stressed. They entered third grade knowing that they had to pass the reading test to go onto fourth grade. Everyone brought it up on the first day of school. I had two parents call me the morning of the reading test to tell me that their kids were throwing up. I had another child run out of the room, yelling ‘I can’t do this!’. These were bright kids who were not at risk to fail. It’s depressing to think that 8 and 9 year olds are going to have ulcers because of this test. And no, I don’t tell the kids how ridiculously low the cut score is because there are a few children in my class who are unlikely to pass the test. The test is not easy for these kids and I see no need to make them feel like idiots. What I tell parents, though, is that the score needed to pass is very low and if their child misses 300 by a large margin, then he/she likely needs to stay in third grade. It’s not an absolute, though. I have one student who will hover around 300 - could be a bit above or below. She has made amazing progress in reading this year - I will support her promotion if given the opportunity.

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

Amazed:

Three years ago, and ever since then, I have emailed/written every single one of our state legislators and invited them to come teach in my school. I arranged to have teachers vacate their rooms for the day.

Guess how many responses I got? ONE..from Mitchell Kay, who coincidentally was running for State Supt.! Did he respond to my request to come do my job? HECK NO…

I’ve lobbied-six years! I have personally taken time off to go up to the capitol when they were in session, and pulled my local legislators to let them in on what’s really going on, and asked them to please let US help them. I’ve called/written our governors (plural, this goes back a while) state supts., etc.

I get FORM letters. Uh huh. Real empowerment, baby.

I have had no less than 3 parents OVERRIDE me when I have recommended retention. You tell me, since you think that petitions, etc will work, how do I overcome the fact that my administrator was more worried about pleasing old mommy and daddy than he was about this child succeeding? that he had the audacity to say, “you’re right..he does need to be retained, but mom and dad won’t go for it, so he moves on.” Wish this was the first and last time I heard that, but it wasn’t!

Tell me HOW I can fix this? I’ll welcome any response. I’ve been politically active for years. What you REFUSE to realize is that in most suburban schools PARENTS CAN AND DO OVERRIDE THE SCHOOL’S/TEACHERS’recommendation. Don’t call me a WIMP because I am informing you of what really goes on with regard to retention/test scores!

Since you’ve never ever ever dealt with it ( I saw no mention of your extensive experience in doing this job) I find it patently offensive that you continue to say I’ve wimped out. I continue to fight, but the bottom line is, my recommendations don’t count for ANYTHING if a parent comes and and wants it changed.Again, since you’ve NO idea of the steps I’ve taken, nor about my level of activity in anything remotely related to furthering my profession, I think you truly need to stop the name calling. Calling people names is not the way to solve anything. This is a cardinal rule my little ones here learn day one.

It’s REALITY. Stop name calling. Be thankful that your daughter finds the test easy and doesn’t stress. Some of my top students are stressing. Stop saying that I and my colleagues are wimps because we cannot change what IS.

Tell ya what. You tell me when..I’ll arrange for YOU to do this job for a while. Maybe I’ll be kind enough and do some lesson planning for ya ;-)

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

Dan, Recently a bunch of us did just that…compiled about 3 yrs of anecdotal evidence showing the vast discrepancies/problems with the CRCT. Gave it to our administrator..”Oh, that’s interesting.” We decided to move it along to the county level.

The silence was deafening. Did send it to the state level…

Love my form letter. We keep it with the research results. May end up using it for scrap paper should we need it for the CRCT.

CRCT is a fact of life. We give it and move on. We use it to “inform our teaching and guide our plan for the year.”

I learn so much more from my students during the year through informal assessements. My son has alternative assessmnts given—like oral presentation of material on a one-on-one basis w.his teachers. I guess he’s “lucky” enough to have this because of a severe learning disabilty.

Sometimes, good does come from a bad situation.

Keep the ideas flowing, keep letting your voice be heard. Someday, maybe someone will listen to those of us not afraid to be the ‘greasy wheel.’

;-)

By MMM

April 11, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

YADA YADA YADA

I thank you for your concern. I suspect that the reason we had not yet recieved the practice password and that they don’t yet work is that we are a Start-up Charter School and the district ALWAY forgets we exists until the day of or the day after. If it has to pass through their hands on the way to ours it usually doen’t make it.

Yes bubbling is a necessary skill in today’s world—my point was that it was good that the teacher was making a game of it with the kids.

I have no concern about my own kid’s education because they both made a 99 composite on the IOWA last fall—which is a much more informative assesment. I do care about my kid’s refugee classmates who are expected to pass an english test when they have just arrived and my daughter’s highly ADHD friend who stressed himself into throwing up nightly before the test last year. It is very discouraging to be told that your ability to go to the next grade with your classmates depends not on a conprehensive look at how fast you are progressing—but a single test.

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this

Kage, That is so pitiful, but I am not surprised. We have special PTO meetings at the BEGINNING of each year to alert the parents of the importance of CRCT, and to further let them know that 3rd and 5th graders must pass to move on.

Stress, stress, stress. Stressful for the parents, teachers, but most importantly, and sadly, for these kids. They will have a LIFETIME to experience stress…! Why start them off so early?!?

Hang in there. You know education..the pendulum continually swings. I will be here long enough to see it go back…and forth…and probably back again…..!

;-)

By fk

April 11, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

I think it is sad that kids get stressed out over tests. As a parent, I think the CRCT test is a big waste of time and money.

When my son was in elementary school, notices would come home before the standardized testing days, etc. Eat a good breakfast, get a good night’s rest, be on time for school. Geez…should they not be doing that for every test, and getting plenty of rest and arriving at school on a timely basis everyday?

By MMM

April 11, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

FLY

In Dekalb they switched the IOWA to the fall. At first I thought it was great. Then I discovered that we had kids fasting for Ramadan during test week. Our school—which is half refugee is 35% muslim. These families fast all day, eat and visit after sundown so they get to bed late and then do not eat until the next sundown. So much for getting a good night sleep and a hearty breakfast! Mostly the parents in these families have little english and no concept of why Americans make such a big deal of testing.

By Jeff

April 11, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

I’m staring @ EOCT in under a month, and if the kids are HALF as stressed about it as I am I truly feel sorry for them. I try to pass it off as being beneath them. I’m honest that I shoot for the standards in my class to be 100 times harder than anything they face @ EOCT. Yet I am LITERALLY losing hair to the stress!

Side issue: I don’t look good with a shaved head. But I have a big - and growing - bald spot on the back of my head from the stress/ too much caffeine. I’ve got interviews both Thursday and Friday, and they both sound promising, for different reasons. Should I shave the head and just not look as decent, or should I leave it and have the bald spot fairly easy to see?

By Kage

April 11, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

I wish we could move the ITBS to the fall. Our super flat out refuses to consider it, and I don’t think his reasons have anything to do with Ramadan.

It is ridiculous to do this much testing at one time. Two weeks of testing within one month. Crazy. Then there’s testing for gifted, testing for learning disabilities, etc. for those who are at risk for not passing the CRCT. Spring should be about playing in Little League, catching fireflies, and reading Encyclopedia Brown.

This testing is mad. I’m over it. I’m teaching the way I know to be best. Then I’m coming home on these lovely spring days, sitting on my deck with a glass of wine in hand and Art Blakely on the stereo. Maybe testing season is not so bad after all!

By decaturparent

April 11, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this

I’m on the school council at my kids’ elementary school, and to my knowledge there is very little direct preparation for the CRCT. All we do is refer parents to the online practice tests and offer families who may not have computer access a copy of segments of a prior year’s CRCT. Each year we look at the prior year’s test results to see which were the weakest segments to that the partial test that we offer to “non-computer” parents focuses on the weakest areas at our school.

The families have to request the practice packets. We do not force them on anyone. We do get a ton of requests though. We had 70 last year and I think around 50 this year.

I tell my kids not to even think about the test. They actually look at it as a week off because they get a ton of recess and snacks and apparently they get to suck on sugar free peppermints all day.

I still want every family in the nation to take CRCT week off. Every family in the whole nation goes to the beach that week. It’s not like they’d miss any learning. That would throw it in W’s face for sure!

But I’m drifting back into my Utopia. I know it will never happen.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 11, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

I_TEACH,

I accept the challenge. Just let me know when and where, I will schedule some vacation time. I have 4 weeks this year. When you are ready, send an email to PATTI, if she will accept being the middleman. I will give my contact information to her.

I don’t mean to trivialize your job, but you underestimate me as a person. I’m also, more than capable of creating the lesson plan.

The company I work for is very open to new ideas and challenges such as this one, if you would like, we can switch jobs for a few days. We are always challenged to get involved in the community.

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

Amazed, You do truly AMAZE me.

Understand: I have spent nearly 20 years honing my craft. I’ve got 2 advanced degrees; yet you seem to think that you could do my job-even write my plans with NO prior help/training. It isn’t quite as easy—and is really not a job that you can learn as you go.

My county, btw, has very EXACTING standards for our lesson plans. They have to be written a precise fashion; the wording has to be just so; objectives, etc. must be cross referenced-and listed…it goes on and on. Oh, did I mention that this MANDATORY format has changed on us several times over the last 5 years?? And yes, we willowy wimps, continue to bend and follow whatever new directive is thrown at us-because we realize that ultimately we need to do our job: TEACH.

When I am out for whatever reason, I am very particular about who steps in my room. I want a CERTIFIED human being-not just a body warmer. I want someone who has taken brain-based research courses.I request my subs..and have gone to work when I should have been home, because I was told that a “body warmer” would be my sub. Not good enough for MY kids.

My challenge to the legislators was to those who make the rules I have to “play” by; trust me, I would NOT entrust my children’s education to anyone.

No offense, but quite honestly, I take my job deadly seriously. I am seriously dedicated to my craft; despite being blamed for every ill that exists in the public school system, I resign that contract year in and year out-because I don’t just teach..I AM a teacher…I wouldn’t DARE hand over my class to anyone who thinks that my job is really oh-so easy that you would be arrogant enough to think (as learned and as educated as you are) that you know the “Best Practices” that are in place in my room. How to run simultanous reading groups.

I would never, ever, ever presume to be able and to COMPETENTLY do another person’s job without the proper education/training to back it up. Why is it every person critical of this job feels they COULD do it? (I love watching the mom-subs…at the end of the day..”how can you DO this full time?” they whine! Love ‘em to death, but this is a JOB, not a HOBBY)

I am not trivializing YOUR dedication to your child or her education; however, I’ve been reading your posts for a very long time now, and it strikes me that you seem to think that we educators are a bunch of people who followed the credo of “those who can’t, teach.”

I can: I gave up pre-med because I knew I wanted to TEACH. (should have stayed in medicine-greater respect, greater paycheck but I wouldn’t trade my daily hugs for any of that!)I have, but I’ve CHOSEN this job. People who criticize yet refuse to become part of the solution are the bane of my existence. I am one of those who brings up a problem and immediately offers numerous possible solutions to fix it. I’ve been taught that you don’t complain without bringing a solution; I’ve tried for years to affect change-sometimes one person, or a group just isnt’ strong enough to buck the tide.

Please-don’t ever call anyone you know nothing about “wimps.” Dangerous ground there, calling out people. I’ll make you a promise-you stop calling names in situations where you haven’t a clue as to the INNER workings-then we won’t call you an “overbearing, arrogant Mom who thinks she can do our job.” ;-D

Here’s a real suggestion for you. You want to back me, are willig to march on the capitol with me (been there,d one that, got great exercise, but little else in years of doing so): go back to school and get a teaching degree! I am not being sarcastic.You have an obvious passion for education and educating children,and the challenges that face both. Well, come on out and do something with it! JOIN the ranks! We’re desperate for Math and Science teachers. Numerous counties are desperate for ANY teachers (Hello, Clayton!) Maybe YOU can affect the change that we wimps haven’t been able to do since the dawn of time.

With that, I’m signing off…time go grade a hill of papers and write progress reports, and call the mom of a heartbroken little girl whose necklace broke on the playground, to make sure that she’s feeling better than she was earlier today.

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 07:51 PM | Link to this

hey Decaturparent… I’m with you…let’s pull our kids out of school and all go to the beach!!!

NCLB? Hahahahah. Uh huh.

Love your thinking..can we make you my class mom next year?

;-)

By I_Teach

April 11, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

Jeff!

Go for the shaved look. Very, very attractive (and all the rage!) these days.

And..I hate to tell you, but yes, the kids in your class are freaking out over EOCT.

I am in KNOTS thinking about my son’s upcoming EOCTS. I’ve already started emailing everyone and his cousin to remind them about the accommodations that must be in place!!

Leave HS..come on down to the little folks..we may have the CRCTs, but they are NOTHING compared to EOCTs and GHGSTs!!! Besides, they love you UNCONDITIONALLY..at this age…I keep trying to convince my class I’m just this mean old woman, but they aren’t buying it LOL.

Good luck-whatever you do, please don’t leave the profession-too many of us are giving up-we’re tired of being blamed for messes we didn’t create.

Let us know how the shave job went!

;-D ps-as i tell my shaven husband, and thinning almost 18 yr old..”don’t worry baby, hair is overrated anyway!”

By luvs2teach

April 11, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this

Patti - I think the AJC has a great story coming if I Teach and Amazed switch jobs for a few days! I know I’d love to read it.

On topic - I’m 8th grade - that’s Earth Science in my county - and we’re doing some test prep, but that’s not all we’re doing.

Our textbook provides a CRCT test prep workbook (not being redundant - it’s a TEST prep work book for the CRCT, ha ha). I’ve been assigning a page a night for homework for 2 to 3 nights a week for a couple weeks now. Our textbook also has test prep questions as part of each chapter review. This week I’ve assigned one or two sections a day, mainly from material we covered at the beginning of the year to review.

Some of it has been helpful - the kids remember stuff that they had forgotten, or I realize I didn’t cover something as clearly as I should’ve.

It also gives me an opportunity to talk about being a good test taker - test taking is a skill, and it can be improved upon. So, I talk a little about narrowing down choices and carefully reading the question. The CRCT gives a RIDICULOUS amount of time for each section, so I stress the importance of taking the time to read each question carefully and going back to check your answers (and the all-important bubbling).

I try to keep it relaxed and low-key.

My personal children never stressed that much about tests - they were decent studnets and it never was going to make the difference in passing or failing a grade for them.

By retired

April 11, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

Teachers are not held accountable for new students. Accountablity is based on the school’s FTE count that occurs in either Sept/Oct. The school I taught at had a large percentage of transient students. Students that arrived the day of the test, weeks prior or after the final FTE count do not affect the classroom teacher nor the schools AYP report.

By labmom

April 11, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this

Just recently we received the new “proposed” cut scores for the CRCT. The grades that have new curriculum phase-ins have new tests, so they might not be as easy as the previous one. Of course, we won’t know until next week when we start testing. The proposed cut scores are much higher, as in: 650-799————-DID NOT MEET 800-849————-MEETS 850-above——-EXCEEDS Of course, the cut scores have not been approved by the State BOE. So it could be another case of finding out what the average scores are and base the cut scores on that. You know, what percentage of failing kids can we live with?

By decaturparent

April 11, 2006 09:11 PM | Link to this

I Teach….

Ugh! Nooooo! Not class parent! Been there, done that.. anything but that!

Hey Patti… by the way - why not do a blog on summer reading programs sometime soon. We are trying to put one together and it’s really a pain trying to make everyone happy. It would be great to hear from some “experts” on what works, what doesn’t and if they are even worth the time and energy.

By Jeff

April 12, 2006 08:09 AM | Link to this

I_teach:

Sounds like we would have a BLAST working together. Careful though: Though I don’t seem to communicate very well, we sound fairly similar in our styles. :)

J

By meme

April 12, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this

We will begin testing on Monday. I just found out that the hs counselors will be coming over on Thursday and Fridady before the test to register the 8th grade for hs next year. That takes away two of my review days. I complained, nothing is going to happen.

By Dan

April 12, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this

Now I agree that 6-10 (although lumping a 6 and a 10 year old for this purpose is even more off the mark but thats another story) yr olds should not be stressed out. So who/what exactly is stressing them out? They really don’t know or care about the ramifications of the test so every bit of the stress is placed on them by how it is presented by parents and teachers.

By meme

April 12, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this

Jeff, I have actually had the administration change grades to make players eligible to play football. Of course this happened in the late 1970’s and I don’t think it has happened since we got rid of that superintendent.

By Susie

April 12, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

I_Teach, my son’s teacher didn’t “officially” recommend him for retention, she told me that his grades were all passing, (some of them were pretty good, actually.) and his test scores were pretty good too…it was just HER experience that he could read all day long, but he was NOT comprehending a lot of it. I remember the jump from second to third grade…third grade was a hard grade for me and for all three of my kids…not sure why, it just was. I didn’t want him going to the third grade not comprehending what he was reading! What idiot in their right mind would knowingly send their child into that situation?? She left it up to me and HIM…she told me that based on his grades and tests, she could recommend him for promotion if I wanted that, or she could recommend him for retention, based on our agreement that he wasn’t ready.

What really impressed the heck out of me was, after we talked, she asked if she could talk with him about it too. She told him about how in the 3rd grade, they were expected to read their own directions on their worksheets and do a lot of different kinds of things on their own, just by reading. She asked him if he felt comfortable with that, or if he would rather have another “chance” to be a stronger reader when he goes to third grade. What do you know, the kid said he wanted another chance! The way she presented it to him, he CHOSE to repeat the grade! Mind you, we’d already decided that he was going to, but she let him think it was HIS decision. I loved her for that.

I wonder if more teachers did what she did, explain the situation, and let parents make the decision beforehand, if more kids might get held back when they need to be? I know that failing is failing, but he technically wasn’t failing…she just told me she was really worried about him going to third grade. I felt that she really cared about him and wanted my input before she made any kind of recommendation. Maybe because of the way she handled it, I was more open to it than I might have been if it had been some arbitrary decision.

I know that a lot of parents are worried about what others will say. I got a lot of crap from a lot of busybody people over my decision, including my own mother…everyone had their own opinion. But ya know, in the end, he is my kid, and I know him better than anyone, and if I say he’s struggling, then he’s struggling, and you can’t “deny” it and make it go away. I felt that sending him on to third grade was just setting him up for failure later on. Other people need to just stay out of it, and let the parents and the schools do what is best for the kids.

By Susie

April 12, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

Jeff, quit pulling your hair out! I don’t think that letting them think the test is “beneath them” is a bad idea at all. It probably IS beneath them, and that line of thinking may keep some of them from stressing too much.

Where I went to school, (NC) all students had to pass a “Competency test,” and we took it in the 11th grade. That way if anyone failed, they could take it again in their senior year. One of my teachers told us that any 4th grader could pass it, and I didn’t worry about it anymore after that. It wasn’t quite easy enough for a 4th grader, but it wasn’t that hard, either. The point is, I saved myself worrying myself sick over it beforehand because the teacher said it would be easy. I don’t know of anyone who failed it, in all the years I was in high school.

Some kids worry themselves into such a state before tests that they do badly just because they are afraid of doing badly!

I said stop pulling out your hair!!

By Lee

April 12, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Let’s see, Banners and signs hung in the school, administrators and teachers freaking out, tutoring students on how to “bubble in” a test sheet, taking weeks prior to test to prep students, etc, etc. - I don’t know why the kids are stressing……